tv Meet the Press NBC January 31, 2016 9:00am-10:00am CST
the candidates have had their say, now it's time for iowa voters to have thees. can donald trump win here and just simply start to roll? >> i don't even think i have to campaign anymore. why am i even wasting my time? >> can ted cruz beat trump and turn this into two-man race? >> the time for all that media noise is past. this is your time. >> what about marco rubio? does he finish second and become the chief challengerer to trump? >> you see some deceitful things going on in the last minute. >> ted cruz, marco rubio and rand paul are all with me here live. plus, what will the latest e-mail storyrydo to hillary clinton's chances? >> i never sent or received any e-mail marked classified. >> can bernie sanders pull the upset and end the idea that her nomination is inevitable. >> they're going to throw everything they have at us. >> sanders joins us this morning. i'm chuck todd in des $% moines, iowa. joining me here for ininght and
news, jennifer jacobs of the des moines register, joy-ann read of msmsc and david brody of christian broadcasting netwo rubio, paul, sander caucus. welcome to sunday and a special edition of "meet the prere." from des moines, iowa, this is a special edition of "meet the pres" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. they're here. the iowa ku kuscaucuses. it all happens tomorrow night. we're here in des moines at the west end architectural salalge, a cocoee shop that also sells ustom and vintage furniture. and of course the candidates are here, all here, all over iowa selling themselves. in fact, on this last fullay befofe the caucuses, the 13 candidates campaigning in iowa are holding 1338 events making last-minute pitching hoping iowa will become the first step on the road to nomination. we couldn't be more excited or
stay tuned for our christmas eve of politics. we start with the latest bloomberg poll. put it up on the screen on the republican side, trump with a five-point lead over ted cruz, marcoubio in third at 15 and ben carson still in double digits at 10 with rand paul at 5. and the democratic race it's hillary clinton continuing to hold a nor row three-point lead over bernie sanders 45-42. we got a lot to get to this morning. the latest developments in the hillary inton e-mail story, bernie sanders will join us later. marco rubiooand rand paul are standing here at west end salvage, but we begin with senator ted cruz from texas by his own admission needs a win here in iowa to keep the trump campaignrom being in his word, unstoppable unstoppable. senator cruz, welcome back to "meet the press.." >> chuck, good morning. good to be with you. >> your campaign i take it doesn't believe the des moines rester poll. you believe you're aheaea what i i found was interesting if you add up the other candidates that are going after evangelical voters, ben carson, mike huckabee, rick santorum, they're
you'll be the runaway winner here. is ben carson going to cost you iowa? >> listen, at the end of the day this race was always going to come down to do conservatives unite. ten months ago you and i visited right a a the outset. if you'd told me ten months ago that the day before the iowa caucuses we would be in a statistical tie for first place, i would have been thrilled and asasnished. and we are thrilled and astonished. the question is going to come 36 hours from now, do conservatives come together? in past cycles what washington has always waed is to splinter and divideconservatates. if t tt happens -- little bit. >> i'm always worried about it. the only way i know how to run -- there's the only joke, two ways to run, scared and unopposed. the only way i know how to run is scared. andde're going to run hard every minute. you know, tomorrow we're going to complete the full grass. we will have been to all 99 counties in iowa. we are campaigning one a aer the ototer asking for the votes of the men and women of iowa and
ground game. >> you believe if trump wins here he's unstoppable? >> not necessily -- >> well, youaid it. our friend caught you on tape there. >> actually, what i said he could be. that iowa his winning here would give him momentum. no doubt abo it. he's in a strong position in new hampshire. and the people iowa if they want a strong principled conservative, the people of iowa can impact that powerfuy 36 hours from now. monday night at 7:00 p.m. and, you know, i think the stakes are too high to get this wrong. you know, the most common sentiment you hear from people is they're frustrated with washington. they're frurad w wth they say one thing and do another. we can't get burned again. and that frustration, the reason that i see conservatives uniting behind our campaign is they're llking for a consistent conservative, someone they can trust to be a fiscal conservative, a social conservative and a national security conservative. >> at the@beginning of this month you led in the polls.
sometimes viciously, okay, on various things. and it seemed to work. the reason trump's ahead is his attacks on you. are you tough ough to tata a puncnc >> oh, listen, anyone that has millions of tens of millions of dollars of attack ads run against them is going to have an impact. >> will you be able to survive a race with hillary clinton? >> absolutely. >> it's going to be tough. this is just two weeks. >> listen, the fact they're all shooting at me- six weeks ago everyone shooting at trump. now all the republican candidates are shooting at me. that rereects a c cnge in this race. and i'll note, donald, you're right, six weeks ago donald thought i was terrific, i was praises. then his pollllumbers s srted dropping. our numbers started surging. and suddenly he began blasting me, not on policy, not on substance but on personal insults and attacks. and, chuck, my approach consistently both before and after he started doing that is not to respond in kind. i think the people of iowa deserve better than insults. so my focus is policy and
will be a consistent proven conservative. >> why did you suddenly stop going after trump on paid ads and going after in your campaign attack marco rubio? how c ccerned are you aboutut senator rubio catching you here in iowa? >> listen, we are drawing contrast, both trump and marco are attacking me. they're attacking me with all their might. and we're drawing contrast. and the contrasts are clear. the contntasts by the way are substantive and policy based. a vote for marco rubio is a vote for amnesty. a vote for donald trump is a vote for obamamare. if you look at their positions, marco rubio right now is a presidential candidate is advocating amnesty, advocating citizenship for 12 million people here illegally. and donald trump right now as a candidate is advocating full-on expanding obamacare to make it socialized medicine. donald trump and hillary clinton and bernie sanders have the identical popotionon health care, which is they want to put the government in charge of you and your doctor.
if i'm elected there will be no amnesty, we will secure the border. if i'm elected we will repeal every word of obamacare. so that gives a clear and simple choice for the voters. >> let's talk about two issues here that seem to be potentially tripping you up here in iowa. one is ethanol. you are -- have come out against these subsidies. you've called it a grave ri train. a lot of iowans including the republican governororoesn't like it. i'm going to put these numbers, isn't it understandable why iowans like these subsidies. ethanol and biodiesel support more than 46,000 jobs, geneneted $2.5 billion for iowan households, a state with unemployment under 4%. this is an important part of their economy. >> absolutely. and, listen, my view on e eergy we should pursue all of the above. we ought to be pursuing every energy source. >> you'll be hurting their economy. >> but with no mdates and sub di u si-- subsidies. the people attacking me are
his son is a lobbyist who makes ndreds of thhsands on lobbyiyi ethanol. his family keep iowa focused on the ethanol mandate because it keeps ia dment dependent onnwashington. means every year they have to go back to washington and maintain the mandate, lobbyists get paid, politicians get paid. no subsidies for oil and gas, no subsidies for anybody. but the other piece that's very important and resonating is i'm going to also tear down the epa's ethanol blend wall, which means make it legal to sell mid-level blendnd of ethanol. and that in turn can expand ethanol share of the marketplace by 60% but not based on mandates and subsidies based on the free market. >> it's so clear you spent a lot of time in iowa look at you talking about mid-level fuel sales. at the end of the day, how does this not hurt the iowa economy? tt's what governor bra the economy.
this aually would expand the iowa economy. right now ethanol is banging into the rfs. it's essentially the blend wall is a cap. as people in iowa knownprv as i've traveled around and do town halls, ethanol's not expanding its market share because the epa is preventing it from doing it. by the way, no other candidate has pledged to remove the blend wall. no other candidate is focusing on the future for ethanol. and you know someone who joined me on my bus tour across the state, fellow named dave vandergrind, he built more than half the ethanol plants in the state of iowa. he's the one who estimates you could see a 60% market increase.. you know who's hurt by my plan? the lobbyists in washington and the people who are helped are iowa farmers and jobs here in the state of iowa. >> one final question, you talk about ronald reagan a ot. you taa about you want to sort of have a presidency like his. he famously had a terrific relationship with democrat tip o'neil o'neil. he got stuff done. are you and nancy pelosi going to be able to get stuff done? >> absolutely.
>> in my entire time of the senate i've treated every member of the senate with civility and respect. >> i don't think mitch mcconnell would say that. >> as others attack me, i don't respond in kind. when donald trump calls me a canadian anchor baby, i don't respond with an yun insult. in fact, i'll sing donald's praises. i like donald. i think he's bold and brash. i think he's been too willing to get a deal and grow government and support cronyism, but that's a policy digs tings. at the end of the day why was reagan able to change the country? because he built a grassroots movementnthat reagan revolutioned that turned this country around. that's what we're doing. we've got 12,000 volunteers in iowa and it's all about turnout. if conservatives want a principled c cservative to nott get burned again, they need to come out monday night 7:00 p.m. >> i'm going to leave it there. senator cruz, you have to finish the full grassley. my next guestlorida senator marco rubio under
campaign in recent days. in fact, take a look at this ad they put out on rubio's immigration stance. >> i am not and i will never support, never have and
never will support any to grant blanket legalization amnesty. >> marco rubio was prt of the gang of eight trying to secure amnesty. >> one of the architects of the plan senator marco rue yoebbio. it was marco rubio a m mber of that wasn't. >> and senator marco rubio joins me now. the press." >> thana you. >> you just had a nice friendly hug with senator cruz ere. that's not such a fraendiendly ad here. of eight. >> actually -- no, no, let me -- amnesty? define amnesty? >> the ad is deceitful, actually talks about cap and trade, it stops my statement right when i start explaining that i'm against cap and trade and big
the gang of eight s aill that was -- that's not -- that was dealt with three years ago as an effort to fix our immigration laws. it was the best that could be done in a senate controlled by harry reid at the time. the hope was that t e house would take ititp and make it better, but it was a way to start that. in the absence of progress that's how barack obama has now forced on america not one but two unconstitutional executive orders thateek to actually legalize people here with no enforcement. now, that's not the way we're going to do it when i'm president. when i'm president, when i'm the nominee, we're going to
keep our majority in the house and senate and we're goingo passirst and foremost immigration laws that secure our border. and until that is in place, we're not going to be able do anything else. that's the lesson of the last ten years. the american people we do not have the political support to do it all at once. they do not trust the federal government to enforce immigration law and as a result the key that unlocks the door to make progress on illegal immigration is to bring illegal immigration under control first. and we will do that when i'm
>> i've had a lot of republicans in iowa that i've talked to who really like you and thenhey say why w w't he repudiate the gang of eight? >> that's not how we're going to do it when i'm president. that's not going to be the law that we'll pa -- >> do you regret ever being involved? >> look, i tried fix a problem. this is a real problem. where are we today? we are worse off today than we were five years ago. we have more illegal immigrants here. we have two unconstitutional executive orders on amnesty. i went to washington to fix a problem. immigration is a serious problem. it impacts my state and the state that i live in. we are impacted by illegal immigration in a dratic way. this issue has to be dealt with. each year it gets harder to solve, more difficult to solve, but it is now clear more than ever before that you are not going to be able to do anything on immigration until you first bring illegal immigration under control and prove it to people. not just pass a law that says it and that's how we're going to do it when i'm president. >> you have eluded to the fact that majority isot yet sort of where you might be on what to do
do you think this is what's holding your campaign back? that the difference between third and second or third and first for you is your immigration position?
>> no, look,e had 11 people running for president that are running competitive campaigns. 11 people on the ground in iowa spending money, campaigning, working hard themselves to gain voters. so a lot of this is segmented right now. ted cruzzs clearlylyhe front-runner in iowa. he has 10,000 volunteers, spent millions of dollars here, got every endorsement he wanted. so we always knew that going in, but we feel really good about the proroess we're m ming here. we have taken on more negative attacks than every other candidate combined. jeb bush's soupuper pac basically spent a third of its money attacking me and yet we keep growing and feel positive about it. we feel positive about what it's going to mean monday night in iowa and new hampshire. >> you brought up the cap and trade issue. i'll play the fulluote of w wat you said. >> florida should position itself for what i believe is inevitable and that is a federal cap and trade program.
can to be an early funds and help influence what that cap and trade looks like at the federal level. so i'm in favor of giving the department of environmental protection a mandate that they go out and design a cap and trade or a carbon tax program and bring it back to the legislature for ratification some time in the next two years. >> all right. we gave you full context there. >> no, you didin't. there's more after thatt clip. >> we'll explain. >> no -- >> it does come across as you're saying it's inevitable so florida has to prepare. >> but what you just played is not tt full clip. right after that i said i'm not in favor of implementing it. i'm in favor of them bringing it back to the legislature. i do not spport big government mandates. the context of that that was in 2006 and '07 when the leading candidates for president were john mccain, barack obama, hillary clinton. all three supported cap and trade. and i was the speaker of the house and i said there is a chance that the federal government will pass cap and trade. m not in favor of it. but if they do, we have to be prepared to comply with that requirement even if we don't like it. and i don't want it to cost the state of florida money to hve
the democrats knew that position. when charily christ proposed cap and trade, i was the first person to speak out of it in a full op-ed in the miami herald. right after that there's even more. >> this gets at what sort of i think is the challenge for all of the candidates on both sides is you're basically saying, look, you got to sometimes govern with what you have, not with what you want. >> right. >> but the voters they want more than that. the voters seem angry. they're not satisfied w wth this idea that, you know, you're doing the you got to work with what you have in washington, not with what you want. >> you know, i don't think that's true. i think voters understand to solve problems it's going to take the ability to work with people you don't agree with on a bunch of other issues i think people understand my higher education ideas, i think student loan debt in america is aauge problblm. we're not going to have free college, but i think there's a bipartisan way to work on helping with student loan. that's why i work with mark warner on it and worked with wther people on this sort of issue.
going to a aee on. repealing obamacare, that's why we have elections. so i think if there's a chance to work together and you don't have to betray your principles, you work together. but there are issues where you can't do at. that's why we haa elections and debate and all those sorts of things in america. >> why are you the personally most popular republican candidate, pretty much here, you and ben carson here neck and neck, bututoverall nationally you have the highest favorable rating. why aren't you higher? >> again, i think it goes back to the fact there are now 11 people running for president of the united states, running competitive campaigns. i mean, these are not third-rate candidates. these are formerors, ceos people. and former senator rick sasaorum. and they're campapaning hard. so you've got the voters have a lotd of choices. i think once the race narrows i feel pretty good about our prospects. >> that's the question a lot of your donors, where do you -- >> i'm runninin for p pesident of the united states. >> but you need to win eventually. >> we will.
having more delegates than anybody else u anyone else and more than half the delegates. i'm confidentnte're going to achieve that. i don't think you're going to really get clarity on this race until the race narrows a little bit. >> what's a good night for you tomorrow? >> we want many votes we can. wfeel real positive about what it's going to leadto. that expectationon game for us we always knew we were an underdog in iowa. other people have a lot more people on the ground here, they spent more money, but we're i'm excited about it. >> senator rubio, be safe on the trail. hampshire as well. when we come back, are iowa 74-year-old socialisis who's not even a registered memberf the democratic party? we're about to find out. senator bernie sanders joins me in a moment. we were born 100 years ago into a new american century. born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. and what an amazing time it's been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder.
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of seizures, confusion, or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. anti-flu? gofantiviral with tiflu. welcome back. it's hard here in deu moines to turn around and not bump into a journalist. we have tom brokaw, jennifer jacobs, msnbc national correspondent joy-ann and david brody. david, i'm going to start with you because, look, ted cruz is make or break depending if he pulls -- but it's unitinin evangelicals. >> it is. you touched on it in that interview. ted cruz goes around in all of these campaign stops and says we
ben carson, nice guy, but please don't. it goes on, mike huckabee and all these folks. if you actually add the numbers up, ted cruz runs away here in iowa with it. the problem is is that not only does he have to contendnd with the fact others will vote for carson and huckabee and others, donald trump is taking 19% as we see in the latest poll of evangelicals which i know is shocking for folks an excedrin moment for folks. >> we're trying to get a feel of who t trump people are, cruz people, we've put a compilation torgt together of the voters i've spoken to. >> i'm for ted cruz because our country was founded on the bible and the constitution. >> if we ged ted cruz in there, they're going to start getting in line and doing what we need to get done. >> my second choice would be marco rubio. >> reporter: how do you feel about donald trump? >> i watch his show. bu i don't know -- i'm afrid of what he might do once he's in office. >> reporter:r:hy are you caucusing for trump? >> because he's going to make america great again. >> i think everybody's a little
americans are afraid, the world is afraid. >> i hope he's tough on illegal immigration like he says. >> i believe he can keep our country safe. >> he is not politically correct. and i am fine with that. >> reporter: would you be caucusing if he wasn't runningng >> probably not. i've never caucused before. >> reporter: how long have you lived in iowa? >> 49 years. >> there it is. buffalo bill hat guy there, he has lived herer his whole life and has never caucused. and he's a donald trump -- that's who donald trump needs to show up. are they going to show up? >> well, you never know. it's interesting to me that ted cruz has all the high points in this des moines register/bloomberg politics poll. everybody likes him better than donald trump. they think he has the greaeast knowledge and dedeth of experience. but donald trump is the guy that they think would be best to fight the u.s. enemies. and that's a big deal in this race. so, you know, everyone says that donond truu's organization is suspect.
>> and i think you can see, too, donald trump also has the most loyal backers. if you look at the polling, he's got the most unchahaeable voters. they are sticking with him. that's why i think you're seeing more intramural fighting particularly between cruz and rubio because rubio's are among the least adherent. so i think what you'rere seeing with tete cruz is he's trying to not only take away the ben carson supporters but also go after those rubio supporters for whom he's actually the number one second choice. >> it's interesting, tom, put up the faarable ratatgs from jennifer's poll here. the des moines register. the two most popular people, republicans, are the guys running third and fourth, ben cars top four, donald trump. it goes to the point, it's loyalty but not growth. >> it's loyalty within the republican parar and within different portions of the republican party. i really think that a big piece of what donald trump has going for him is celebrity culture that we live in in america. and he is everywhere and comes in with that big airplane and
little piece of that. here's a guy running strongly among evangelicals married three times, he had affairs around the rld with other people, he went broke a couple of times. they bore right through that. so we're playing in a different ballpark this year. >> well, it's a good point. i would say this, there's a huge block of evangelical voters that arerehe sick and tired evangelical voter, this election specifically those folks are ruling the day. you know, evangelicals are sick of being played as political papas for years. i mean, look at the federal marriage amendment in 2004, if i can go back in history but george w. bush campaigned on that, told evangelica to get out at the polls and karl rove dropped it like a hot potato. they believe donald trump will stick up for them. >> david, explain this, we were talking about this earlier. wh -- is it a different evangelical voter that's for trump than -- is it different -- explain the difference. you were telling me there's a difference between the trump angelical and the cruz evan evangelical evangelical. >> there is.
first of all we know evangelicals are not a monolithic group. >> of course not. >> but a lot are identified evangelicals. i'm not trying to get on anyone's case, ifyou will, but look, the reality is is that there's a certain type of evangelical that votes for donald trump, a little bit more of a cultural christian if you will. but then theres the biie study, wednesday night service, you know, the ones that you're going to see at the potluck on sunday, that's the ted cruz folks. >> that's your cruz. >> those are the cruz folks. but look, the realitys donald trump is still playing well with even some of those folks that go to service on wednesday night. he's crossing into both realms. >> last word, tom. >> you have to keep track of who loses here. where do those votes go? that's going to be critically important. three or four people drop out, 40% of the vote they represent, where do they go when it comes to new hampshire? so losing is as important as winning here. >> that's what iowa's all about, losing sometimes. and then winning. anyway, we're back in a moment. we're going to talk about the democratic race and the man who has defied all expectations.
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symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye)problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! (children giggle) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free trial offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. welcome back. to the demomoatic race where independent senator bernie sanders is running neck and neck with hillary clinton. he's counting on young enthusiastic reporters many whom
out tomorrow and put him over the top. if they do likely so signal a new beginning for the nomination. senator sandersjoins me from cedar rapids, iowa. thank you for joining me, sir. >> my pleasure. >> let me start with the importance of winning fsh your candidacy. is there a path to the nomination wititut you upsetting hillary clinton here in iowa first? >> well, chuck, let me just say this. as you well know, when we began this caapaign, we were at 3% in the polls. we werere0 points behehnd hillary clinton. today as you've indicated we're neck and neck. i think we have a real shot to win this if there ip a large voter turnout. and it's notjust young people. it is working class people. it is middle class people who are sick and tired of status quo politics. that's true in iowa. it's true in new hampshire. it's true all over this country. so to answer your question, yeah, i think we really do have a path toward victory because
boldly m mve in a new direction so that not all wealth and income is going to the top 1%. >> but don't you have to win iowa here if this is going to become a bigational campaign? >> well, there's no question, you know, that what happens here is very, very important. and if we can win and pull off a major upset, it will really be a springboard, i think, to other states. but at the end of the day i think in terms of division of delegates, whether you win by two points or lose by two points not going to matter a whole lot. but here's the point, we are running a national campaign. erer strong not justin new hampshire. we're gaining ground significantly in south carolina and nevada. we are strong all over this country. >> i want to play for you something secretary clinton said friy about your health care ideas and get you to respond to it. hehe it is. >> i don't want us to be thrown back into a terrible, terrible
i don't nt us to end up in gridlock. people can't wait. people have health emergencies can't wait for us to have some theoretical debate about some better idea that will never er come to passss >> senator, i would say the biggest difference between her supporters and your supporters is her supporters will say, you know, i really like wpat senator sanders is trying to talk about but he caat get his plans passed. that's essentially what secretary clinton is saying. what are you saying? >> well, first of all, what secretary clinton has implied throughout this campaign or last month or two that somehow i who spent my life fighting for universal health care to guarantee health care to every man, woman and child, to have the united states join the rest of the industrtrlized world in making health care as a right. somehow i'm going to dismantle the health care system and leave millions of children without health care, or elderly people without health care. that is absolutely an outrageous
happen. at a time when we are spending three times more per person on health care than the people in the united kingdom, far more than the people in other countries, we pay the highest costs for prescription drugs than the people elsewhere, yes, i think our vision is to move forward to guarantee health care to every man, woman and child in a cost effective way. >> but obviously to pay for it, and to pay for a lot of your ideas, you're going to be raising some taxes. nancy pelosi, head of the house democrats said this. we're not running on any platform of raising taxes. it was an impmped sort ofhe didn't want you at the top of the ticket with those house democrats. what do you tell her? >> you know, chuck, let's just look at the facts. the facts are that we e re spending far more than other countries on health care. my proposal will save middle class families thousands of dollars a year on their health care costs.
would be happy to pay $1,000 more in taxes if they're paying $5,000 less in health care prprmiums. so, you know,this is an issue where we have got to control health care costs, guarantee health care to all people and do what every other major country on earth is doinin we have got to take on the drug companies who are ripping us off and the private insurance companes. >> and you don't think you're going to be a problem for house democrats who doot wantnt to run on raising taxes? >> no, i think in fact hillary clinton will be the problem. because i think our campaign is the campaign that is genenating excitement and energy that will result in a high voter turnout. republicans win when voter turnout is low. democrats win when voter turnout is high. i thii our campaign is raising the issue about a rid the economy of corrupt campaign finan system. secretary clinton yesterday just annound, i suppose with pride,
i don't have a super pac. our average contribution is $27. >> i want to ask you about your relationship with president obama and a book you endorsed. president obama, the most popular democrat in this des moines register poll. there is a book by bill press, it's called "buyer's remorse," w obama letrogressives down. your name is featured as sort of the top endorser of the book. it says bill press makes the case, dot, dot, dot, read this book, in fairness to you, the dot, dot, dot doesn't have you saying anything negative about barack obama but simply signing on tis book. >> chuck, what it has me saying is what i believe. in that the next president must be extremely aggressive in bringing more people into the political -- i think b back obaba has done a fantastic job. >> he hasn't let down -- you don't believe he's let down profession progressives? you think bill press is wrong?
done a fantastic job. the economy today is infinitely better than it was seven years ago. but=&y# what we have got to do is to involve people in the political process in a way that we have not done. the reason that the rich get richer and everybody else gets poorer is big money controls % what goes on in congress. the antidotee to that iss a political revolution involving people in the political process. and that's what the -- go ahead. >> fair enough. the latest revelations about secretary clinton and her e-mails, do they give you any -- you personally any hesitation about her electability or about her honesty? >> well, here's the sue. you know, as you well know, chuck. and i've been asked every day, you know, by the media, attack hillary clinton, attack hillary clinton. what i've chosen to do in this campaign is to focus on the issues facing working families and the middle class. and not make personal attacks against hillary clinton. you know, i think this is a
i am not going to attack hillary clinton.. the amereran people will have to make that judgment. but i am going to continue to focus on is why the middle class continues to disappear. and we have massive leels of income and wealth inequality and a campaign finance system which allows billionaires to buy elections. >> senator sanders, i got to leave it there. stay safe on the trail. it's goioi to be a fascinating 24 hours. thanks very much. >> thank you. coming up, the issue that has haunted hillary clinton more than any other this campaign sean, did the e-mail problem just get worse for hehe
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welcome back. as you already know tomorrow iowa voters will select candidates through the caucus system. not a primary. but what exactly is a caucus? we're here withour complicated answerer cacauses are held in places like schools, churches and government buildings. and it's where voters gather and show up in person to select their candidate. at one of over 1,600 precincts across iowa. but in iowa republicans and democrats caucus very differently. so let's start with the republicans. it's easier. they showup toheir caucus location and simply cast a secret ballot for the candidate of their choice. delegates are awarded
overall statewide vote total. pretty straightforward, right? it's basically an old fashioned firehouse primary. now, if only it we that simple for the democrats. first, there are pitches from representatives of each candidate. then voters move around the caucus site, let's say a high school gym, and gather with like-minded supporters. clinton supuprters in one rner, sanders backers in another, o'malley folks in a third and something called undeclared, they meet as well. but, for example, if martin o'malley, who is pullili the lowest, can't seef at least 15% at this site, his supporters can go to another candidate or become undeclared. by the way, this works the same for the undeclared if they don't getet 15%, they have to choose among those who did meet the threshold. this all continues until only viable candidates with at least 15 support or theeundeclared group if they have 15% support remain.
watching the raw election returns tomorrow nightht we'll get raw numbers of actual votes on the republican side and you'll see hundreds of thousands on the democratic side. it will only be a few hundred or a thousand or two because what you'll see is adding up of local delegates, it's a l lttle bit confusing. you'll just have to wait for somebody to say so and so won, so and so won when nbc news declares it. hopefully we can say you can take it the bank. we'll be back in a moment with the latest on the clinton e-mails. before i had the shooting, burning, pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, ese feet were the fifit in my family to o aduate from college, raised active twin girls, and trained as a nurse. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescririd lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these,
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joy-ann reed and david brody. start a little bit, i also talked to a bunch of democrats at various clinton and sanders events. let me give you a taste of giving their case for why they're passionate or pragmatic. take a listen. >> i like a lot of what bernie says, but i think it's more realistic to go with hillary. >> reporter: did you caucus eight years ago? >> yes. >> reporter: who did you caucus for then? >> barack. i felt the charisma of obama muchore so than hillary at the time. >> reporter: what about hillary this time makes you f fel betterr >>he competition. >>
going to start for o'malley, if he's not viable then we will probably go to bernie. >> reporter: what takes you from clintons? >> probably too much establishment or something. >> bernie talks about the big banks. d she's taking money from them. >> i thinkkhat at the end o o the day when he's sitting down thinking about what he's going
me. >> i like what sanders says becau with the gun laws make sense. >> yes, you didn't mishear. that young man is undecided between
bernie sanders and ted cruz. only in iowu. you can't make that up. what wawa interesting there i i you did get a taste from m e voters that there is the democrat that is thinking about -- democratic voters thinking about who can get the job done, that seems to be a hillary person. then there's some idealism with the bernie folks. but your poll has a totally different story on this idea of enthusiasm. bernie sanders talks about his pele are more enthuseeiastenthusiastic. llk what your poll has. you have clinton people with more enthusiasm. >> it's true. they like her best for her strength and preparedness. that is true. in the bottom line argument is he has the empathy and vision, however the conventional wisdom is he has more enthusiasm not true. our poll shows that she is winning on who would you be more enthusiastic as the nominee, s s ns.
enthusiastic, which is that really strong, strong passion. she gets 53% saying they will be very enthusiastic about her, onll49 for him. >> bb, there is nothing in this poll that indicates sanders is going to win unless these first-time caucus grs search. >>he metrics for her are certainly better going into the caucus. but i think theereason you're seeing the bigger turnout and the more visible passion for bernie sanders, his candidacy really represents the two big disappointments of the progressive ing, the most liberal wing of the democratic party have to do with number one, no prosecutions of wall street bankers after the great recession. and number two, the fact that there was no public option universal healththare in terms of like a medicare for all. those two pockets of resistance to the obama years are driving the bernie sanders momt. it's driven by an anger at barack obama. bb the c callenge is y repudiate the administration's
health care, what you're repudiating barack obama. it becomes very difficult to get barack obama supporters to support you. >> the y with the 90% vorable rating higher than boboh those current democrats running. >> well, what's been missing from the democratic side however is what is the international policy? what are they going to do about isil? we're in a war and there's been almost no discussssn on the democratic side. i asked bernie sanders the other day, he all to the landscape but clearly didn't have an idea how he would deal with what's going on in the middle east. it's almost allllt thisoint very domestic. and so in the iowa caucuses tomorrow night, democratic caucuses, we'll hav three candidates and then the fbi investigation. >> well, u bring up e-mails. repuans are excited ab >> they want to start the general election now. absolutely. >> they love it. does it impact democratic voters? >> our polling has showed, no. it doesn't effect them. >> i don't think it's there yet. quite honestly i think it will be there but in an unspoken way.
a fifile? that's the part -- >> well, the line in the "new york times" story about this that i think stands out most to democrats is the information was not classified at the time it was sent. so long ashat is the case, democrats are dismissing this issue. >> i think bernie sanders could do a lot more damage to hillary clinton not necessarily bringing up the e-mails, the specific -mails, but bringing up authenticity, bringing up establishment, bringing up here we go again. you know, this narrative that has already formed on hillary clintn, if he can continue to tap into that it might be different. >> isn't the issue -- it's interesting here. has bernie done enough to beat her? he does seem to be like he doesn't want to go everywhere. llk, barack obama, hee didn't have any qualms about going after those trust issues, turn the page. he went right at her. >> but hesitancy i think because of that same issue. for dememrats this is not a chaae election. this is 1998, this is the attempt to continue the obama legacy and protect it. hillary clinton has a much
wrappinger arms around the president saying i will protect his legacy, bernie has to say i want to fundamentally change to overturn obama legacies. >> they fireeack really hard saying he's playing dirty and promised not to campaign negatively and he kind of stepped back again. >> bernie nders reminds me a little of howard dean 12 years go. >> -oh. >e're out of momentum on this program on sunday morning, kim, me, roger simon and others said looks like howard dean's going oops. then he's third. and a distant third at that. so there was an enormous amount of excitement around him that matches bernie sanders. >> i talked to another gentleman in mt. pleasant wlo saidid i think this area's going to go for sanders. i said why do you think that? louder. the clinton people are softer. and that's what he tk. but that goes to your dean. the dean pepele were louder in '04, but that didn't mean there were more of them. >> that's true.
polling you showed dhere it's interesting. thehere more enthusiastic for hillary clinton as the nominee. >> that's the key. >> as the nominee. in other words, yeah, we'll be enthusiastic we want the white house back. that's the issue. >> yeah. there's also a drive t tey want a female president as well. 80% of democratic caucus goers want a woman. >> 69% would be comfortable with a socialist. by the way in iowa. we'll be back in 45 seconds with an end game segment and surprise
we'll be right back. - covering your kid's eyes is one way to prent them from seseng something inapproroiate. another way is to use parental controls to control viewing habits the more you know. end game time. joinings us now senator rand paul. we wanted to squeeze in mo % candidates. >> thanks for hahang us. well, what happened? i feel like your libertarian support was strong here when the year started. >> we still think it is. you know, we have 1,000 precinct chairs out of 1,600. i think that't' more thanny other candidate has announced. ed young people in our des moines office, if you get there there's 100 of them or more making phone calls. they've cald a million iowa voters. i think we've called them so
but we think we're a lot stronger than the polls represent. our strength we think is with the younger voter. i've yet to meet a college kid or kid out of college thahas donon a presidentiaia poll. the polls are skewed older. >> do you think you and sanders are fighting for the same voters? >> in some ways. i mean, you know, he's evinced a little distrust of the bigger banks, we think the biggest bank in the world is the culprit for economic despairty. >> what's b bendisappointing to me on the republican side is there's been almost no sophisticated discussion about how we're going to deal with the war in the middle east. there's a lot of talk abouthe veterans. that's after they've served. they've come home badly wounded in many cases, psychologically and physically. but there's been no discussion about in a sophisticated way about how we're going to deal with w wt the consequences are. and no c cll for a sacrifice on the people who are at home. we have less than 1% of our population in uniform and in harm's way.
important thing if you want to y to get to apoint where we do defeat isis, it means you have to have a cease-fire in syria. so for those who are saying let's bomb both sides, let's just call them john mccain, wants to bomb both sides of that war, so does rubio,o, they want to bomb assad and isis at the same time. i think that's a real mistake and won't lead to a soluti. to those like hillary clinton and rubio and others w w say they nt to have a no-fly zone over there and shoot down russian jets. i mean, christie's bragging about shooting down russian jets. i think that's a naivete that will leadado more problems and not make the world safer. >> senator, i think you could say represented by the chris christie crowd, does it surprise you they have so much resonance? >> i think it's interesting. des moines register did poll probably about a year ago and said do you support more intervention in war or less like rand paul.
we think there are quite a few voters outhere who are still war weary. we also thinkas regime change worked? i think toppling hussein made iran stronger. i think toppling gadhafi made radical islam stronger in libya. so i think there's a large argument andd think we're winning the historical argument that toppling secular dick tatators safer. >> jennifer. >> your father got third placee in iowa 20%. do you think you can get anywhere close to that? maybe our poll isn't reading some of your supporters. >> the interesting thing about your poll you ask in one of the last polls who did you vote for in 20122 and i think you gotike 9% or 10% for my dad and he got 22%. so you're really only finding half of his voters. i don't think it's on purpose. i don't think your poll is finding them. i think the poll is nototinding oung people. it's also not finding independent voters that come and go in the republican primary. i think we're going to be -- we're going to surprise a lot of people on monday. >> you know, i'm curiououabout the libertarian aspectctof all this.
lot of libertarians and i'm wondering about that crossover appeal and if that's hurt you at all. >> i think most libertarians or libertarian leaninin people like myself, we don't want to make the sand glow or carpet bomb the middle east. we understand if you have indiscriminate bombing over there you may create more terrorists than you kill. i think voters are consolidating. i think at the fed was a defining moment for ted cruz not showing up for that moment, it's going to hurt him with us losing any liberty voters to him. i think also ted is sort of wanting to have it both ways particularly on the nsa. you saw his response in the debate to rubio. rubio said, oh, you voted for the nsa reform, you're voting to weaken the nsa andted responded, no, i want the government to collect 100% of your cell phone records and it's like the liberty voters we cringe when we hear people like ted cruz saying they want to collect all of our rrords. we don't want the government in the business of collecting our phone records. >> what do you got to do on monday night that says i'm going to new hampshire? >> i think we have to be above expectctions. ananwe have to do very, very well.
beginning. you know, we've been sort of pushed out of the news cycle a little bit if you haven't noticed. >> it happens. it does happen. >> there are a lot of candidates out there, but we have to exceed expectations and we have to do very well in iowa. but, you know, we're alredy moving up. we're fifth in the des moines register poll consistentnt, but we think it might be -- we might get twice as much as what's in there, three times as much. we think we can do much better than expected. we think we even have another chance of winning. >> what happens to the people who don't survive here in iowa? where does their vote go when you get to new hampshire in your judgment? >> you know, i'm not sure exactly what happens. there are going to be four or five people that, you know, are not going to do very well here. i don't think christie, kasich, fiorina fiorina, i d d't think they're going to do well in iowa. i think they move on because they think they'll do better in new hampshire, but i think after new hampshire and iowa there is a reshuffling of the deck.
pressss one of the areas that i've been particularly interested in is the area of children. we intend to be sure thatverybody in this room and every child in this state is somomody. no matter where they're born, no matter to whom they are born. i want to make sure that every child has a chance to live up to his ororer god-given potential. i've spent my life fighting for children, and i'm not stopping now. i'm hillary clinton, and i have always approved this message. >> announcer: this is the steele report. >> ron: on the steele report this week, the day before the iowa caucuses, we're going to