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tv   Democracy Now  LINKTV  August 26, 2014 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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08/26/14 08/26/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica, this is democracy now! community in america would tolerate an 18-year-old boiling .n the street 4.5 hours and we not going to tolerate it, either. the value of this boy's life must be answered by somebody. >> as nearly 5000 people gather for the funeral of 18-year-old michael brown, a new audio recording emerges that indicates
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ferguson police officer darren wilson may have shot at brown as many as 10 times. we will play highlights from the funeral and speak to mourners who share their own stories about police brutality. >> they kicked down my door. they put nine millimeters on my 'tds had and they weren nothing but 9, 10 for 11 years old. they took my kids and lock them up for 30 days. 30 days over a snickers bar. as well as the nine millimeters and kicked in my house. that day, my whole life changed. x then we look at the crisis in libya three years after the u.s. back toppling up muammar gaddafi. egypt andhe past week the united arab emirates has secretly carried out airstrikes against islamist militia there. we will stick with professor vijay prashad, author of, "arab spring, libyan winter." >> if you just give the libyan
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people a destroyed country, how are they going to build a future? that is the real danger of the air apartment in the style the americans conduct. they level countries and then tell people to create a democracy. it doesn't work like that. >> all of that and more coming up. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. israel has bombed two high-rise buildings containing scores of homes and shops in gaza city. as the israeli assault has entered its 50th day, the palestinian death toll has people,more than 2130 the vast majority civilians, with 68 dead on the israeli side. all the four our soldiers. two palestinians have been killed so far today. the palestinian news agency ma'an reports at least 12 were killed monday. reuters said the victims included at least four people killed when israeli aircraft struck four homes in the town of
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beit lahiya. a journalist, abdullah murtaja, reportedly died monday, two weeks after he was injured by in israeli attack in a neighborhood of gaza city. egypt has floated a new proposal for a truce between israel and hamas. since the cease-fire collapsed last week, well over 100 palestinians have been killed. residents in the seattle, washington area have continue to protest the israeli assault and the long-standing blockade of gaza by trying to block a cargo ship run by these really company zim. one person was arrested after scores of people gathered at the port of tacoma on monday. the protesters said they plan to continue their actions. they are coming. they are coming. we will continue monthly protests and blockade until they get the idea that seattle does not want them here. >> the united states is sending spy drones unmanned surveillance
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flights over syria in the latest step toward possible airstrikes against islamic state militants there. according to an end officials in "new york times," president obama authorized the spy flights over the weekend. on monday, the regime of syrian president bashar al-assad expressed willingness to work with the united states against the militants, but warned unilateral action would be seen as an act of aggression. the united nations has found evidence islamic state militants killed as many as 670 prisoners from a jail in mosul, iraq. after taking control of the city in june, the group separated out all the shiite prisoners and shot them. they you and human rights office spokesperson said the militants come also known as isil, are committing abuses daily. >> grave human rights violations isil includingby forced conversions, objections, trafficking, slavery, sexual destruction
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embassy ching of entire communities because of their ethnic, sectarian affiliation. >> a car bomb has killed at least 10 people today in the iraqi capital baghdad. at least four dozen people were killed in a series of bombings targeting mainly shiite areas. in baghdad, 11 people were killed by suicide attack inside a mosque. the islamic state has claimed responsibility for that attack, calling it revenge for mass shooting the killed 73 people at a sunni mosque east of the capital friday. egypt and the united arab emirates have carried out airstrikes on islamist allied militias in libya. i named officials told "new york times," the united states was unaware and egyptian officials denied involvement. both egypt and the uae are close u.s. allies who have received billions of dollars of u.s. military equipment. united arab emirates provided the planes and pallets for the strikes, which began a week ago.
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libya has been roiled by fighting among rival militias following the u.s.-backed ouster of my market off he -- no market off he in 2011. on sunday, islamist militias claimed control of the libyan capital tripoli after taking over the main airport. on monday, the country was thrown into deeper turmoil in the former parliament, led by islamist, joseph new prime minister -- chose a new prime minister. more on libya with professor vijay prashad later in the broadcast. leaste coast of libya, at 170 people have died after a boat carrying migrants sank while trying to reach europe. new evidence has emerged in the death of michael brown. he was shot dead on august 9 by police officer darren wilson in ferguson, missouri, sparking two weeks of protests. on monday night, cnn aired an audiotape, which allegedly captured the moment brown was shot. on the recording tape at least
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10 gunshots can be heard. a private autopsy has shown brown was shot at least six times, twice in the head. the recording has not been independently verified but the fbi has questioned the man who says he recorded it. you can hear the unidentified man chatting in a building near where brown was killed as he says "you're so pretty" six gunshots can be heard in the distance and then four more shots. listen closely to the gunfire in the background. >> you are pretty. [gun fire] just going over some of your videos. >> thousands of people attended the funeral in st. louis monday to remember michael brown. the reverend al sharpton was among the speakers. >> this is about justice. this is about fairness. america is going to have to come to terms with their a something
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wrong that we have money to give military equipment to police forces, but we don't have money for training and money for public education and money to save our children. >> more on the funeral after the headlines. the ukrainian and russian presidents are meeting for talks in belarus today amidst tensions inr pro-russian insurgency addition ukraine. fighting between ukrainian forces in the rebels has killed more than 2000 people. just before the talks, ukrainian security forces claimed to have captured 10 russian paratroopers and ukrainian turn -- territory southeast of the rebel held city of donetsk. russia announced plans to send a second batch of humanitarian aid into the region after its previous convoy made its delivery and returned to russia. ukraine is facing a political crisis in key of.
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has called for early elections in october. france's in the midst of a political crisis after a dispute over harsh austerity policies caused the president to dissolve the government. took actionllande after his economy minister harshly criticized the government's policies and urged them to resist what he termed journeys obsession with austerity. german backed economic measures have crippled economies and spark as protests across europe. a library and dr. infected with ebola who received one of the last doses of an experimental drug has died. two american missionaries recovered after getting the same drug. a spanish priest who received it also died. the world health organization said monday in an unprecedented number of health-care workers have been affected in the outbreak due to factors including a lack of equipment and our staff shortages. more than 240 health care workers have contracted ebola and over 120 have died.
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you can go to democracynow.org to watch our discussion with dr. paul farmer, founder of partners in health about the ebola crisis. water mullah has declared a state of emergency in 16 out of 22 provinces and ms. the worst drought in decades. said activist dina cardona farmers are facing severe shortfalls. >> some parts are drier and in other parts have grown. to eatn the cattle want because it is to drive. the farmers would have liked to sell their crops to recover what little they can, but they cannot. they lost everything. talks the world food program has estimated about 2.5 million people 11 impacted across honduras, nicaragua, el salvador, and guatemala. california has been grappling with similar conditions with 98% of the state now deemed to be a condition of severe drought. in brazil, hundreds of prisoners
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have reached a deal to end their takeover of a prison in the city of cascavel. police said the writers killed for fellow prisoners, two of whom were the headed, after taking control of the prison sunday. the u.n. in human rights groups ever people he warned of dire conditions in brazil's overcrowded prisons. and vinyl activist daniel mcgowan has filed a lawsuit against the u.s. bureau of prisons for jailing him solitary confinement after he wrote an article about his earlier imprisonment. he's been more than five years in prison for arson as a member of the earth liberation front. for part of his term, he was held in the present highly restrictive communications management unit. after his release to halfway house in 2012, he wrote an article for the huffington post about how documents proved he was held in the cmu in which eliot shepard is political speech. three days after the article came out, mcgowan was again
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taken into custody and told he would be returned to his cmu. he was released the next day after federal authorities were notified they had arrested him under a regulation declared unconstitutional. jenna mcgowan's attorney told the huffington post -- a new report intercept new site reveals a national security agency's sigrid with providing troves of data to nearly two dozen government agencies using a google-like search engine. documents provided by edward snowden provided proof that for years the nsa has made data directly available to domestic law enforcement agencies like a drug enforcement administration and fbi. the search tool contains information on both foreigners and millions of your citizens who have not been accused of wrongdoing. it is designed to share more than 850 billion records -- that is more than twice the number of stars in the milky way. the report comes after the
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intercept discovered that the u.s. military has banned all employees from visiting the news site and began blocking it on work computers, purportedly because it is published classified material. military employees reported being told it was "illegal and a violation of national security" to read the intercept. occupy wall street protesters have won a legal victory against the new york city police department. a federal appeals court has rejected the city's bid to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the nypd's mass arrest of 700 occupy demonstrators on the brooklyn bridge in 2011. the partnership for civil justice fund called the mass arrest one of the largest mass violations of civil liberties in u.s. history. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. new evidence has emerged in the death of michael brown, the 18-year-old african-american teenager who was shot dead by ferguson missouri police officer on august 9 mismarking two weeks of protests.
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on monday night, cnn aired an audiotape -- allegedly recording the moment brown was shot. on the recording, at least 10 gunshots can be heard. a private autopsy had shown brown was shot at least six times, twice in the head. the new recording has not been into finale verified, and in an identified resident, recording to the fbi. you can hear the man video chatting in a building near where brown was killed. as he says, "you're so pretty," six gunshots coming heard in the distance, then a's, then four more shots. this is the audio. it last about 10 seconds. gunshots in the background, not the conversation. >> you are pretty. [gun shots] just going over some of your videos. >> that is audio of a video chat allegedly recorded the same time ferguson police officer darren
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wilson fatally shot unarmed teenager michael brown. cnn first played it monday night saying it had been handed over to the fbi by ferguson resident. more than 2500 people filled the sanctuary a friendly temple missionary baptist church in st. louis for michael brown's funeral. another 2000 packed into overflow rooms. hours before the service began, hundreds lined up outside to pay their respects. aaron maté was there and brings us some of their voices. >> ♪ we shall overcome ♪ shall overcome >> we are the frilly temple missionary baptist church for the funeral of michael brown, just moments ago am a brown's family entering.
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leaving a large contingent of family members into the church. the funeral of their son. when we arrived, there was a crowd outside singing "we shall overcome." we spoke to some of those waiting in line to pay respects. >> we're here to support the mike brown family and the people in general and show we can all get together and we're not letting anything go down out here. we stand for justice for the mike brown family. >> my name is crystal williams. what happened to my son here, he was not or 10 years old. i was living out there. my son had got a ticket for a snickers bar. i did not know about it. in that county, the issue of warrants. they kicked down my door. they put nine millimeters on my kids head and they was another but 9, 10, 11 years old, with my nephews. that day, they took my kids, locked them up for 30 days.
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30 days over a snickers bar. as well is put nine millimeters and kicked in my house. that day my whole life changed. i had to relocate my life to minnesota because i knew then that my boys was going to die here. so it changed my whole life. theyw, as well as i knew killed him, they were going to kill my children. >> you felt the police who were a threat to your children? absolutely. i knew. my mom told him when i moved out there, that was the kkk, but i did not listen to them. it took them to put nine millimeters on my kids head at 10, 11 years old. >> when you heard about michael brown's killing, what was your reaction? >> what was my reaction? immediately, the streets. immediately. no second thoughts. i had to get out there. if i have to die today, i will, for my grandchild.
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i'm not running from st. louis no more. no more. >> my name is edward harris. i was angry because i'm tired of seeing young unarmed black man getting killed by police. the police are supposed to protect and serve. we got to stand up and protect ourselves because they not going to do it. they're going to gut as down. >> they could have used a taser. what are the tasers for? just pulling out your gun and shooting. that makes you look at. people going to go the wrong way. people was mad. you don't do stuff like that. >> looting and rioting doesn't make it right, but what else can we do? we took the martin luther king approach first, with these, but there is no peace and no justice, but there will be justice in this case.
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and am here for mike brown mostly for all black man walking down the streets, not being able to go out in the county. city with ticket values and stuff, we have been ticketed much over there. you just can't go past the county. i'm fearful of the county. i have been stuck in the city for six or seven years because the county has been that bad. i have to sneak to see my kids. because my plates might be bad. i'm poor and trying to drive around to get better, but they want to ticket you. they just take your stuff immediately. >> my name is ann hamilton. this is something i never thought i would be deceived. i heard about different things that happen. i know about martin luther king. i am actually living something that should have stopped years
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and years ago. they're celebrating the first byil rights lady appointed four presidents. this her, her 50th anniversary. and now we have to deal with this still happening in the city of st. louis -- anywhere? injustice is everywhere. a rifle way, and there is to the power of voting and getting involved. as african, we want to be treated fairly and given the same advantage. this is why we are still in a one-room schoolhouse. of our young black man out of here. that is wrong. it's wrong and i'm sick of it because i've been out here trying to change. we want to be treated human just like everybody else. >> do you think things have changed since the killing? >> i think so, because even as i
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drive on the highway, i don't feel as though -- i live elsewhere, but i growth of december hood. i don't feel as much as stress. there would be times when i'm driving from oh south, predominantly white area, every time i would drive i would see a lot of police officers pulling over black drivers. so i haven't seen that since this incident. >> what do you attribute that to? things local. letting people be aware. letting the world know the type of discrimination we have here in st. louis, missouri. >> and you brought your son today? >> i did. he wanted to be a part of this. i don't know if he's going to say anything. he wanted to be a part of this because it could have been my son. i have three sons. i've a 14, 17, and 22-year-old. it could easily have been my son. easily.
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they discriminate against our black men all the time. >> i am here in support of michael brown's family and the peace effort they are trying to bring into being and to bury this young man. it is a culmination of a lot of problems here in st. louis. no jobs, lack of education, the school system is falling apart. there is a lot of problems here. we see it as a systematic disruption of the black community. and iname is cheyenne with the organization the lost voices. we're standing up for what we believe in. we will keep going through this. it may go away temporary, but we will keep going through it thank you going through it. anyoneot going to let make us feel like we can't speak up or we don't have our freedom of speech. >> i am a deputy chief u.s. marshall.
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the disparities, when you look at the number of police officers here that are white versus black, endemic to the country, really. the chokehold death of the young man in new york city. trayvon martin. we could go on and on and talk about disparities. why these police tactical homicides are taking place against disproportionate against minorities. we see a young man that was shot down unarmed. communityons -- the has a right to ask these questions. they're concerned. when i look at the militarization of the police department, i see the type of armored personnel carriers, the vehicles. swate done a lot of training. i know what they can do. when they bring in this machinery for this nature, says to me, it is overkill. >> patricia alexander to support mike brown's parents. >> do you know them?
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>> not personally, but as the mother of a victim, i wanted to show my support. >> what happened to your child? >> my child was killed. he wasn't killed by a officer, but he was killed three years ago. i know that mother's pain. that is why i am here, to show my support for that mother and the rest of the family. >> having lost a child, what message do you have for michael brown's parents? >> to just keep their trust in god. keep their trust in god. hold her head up. their boy -- she will never be a will to replace that void in her life, but as long as she keeps asking god for strength, she will make it through. she will be a will to get up every day and no that her son is always -- know that her son is always here. can't nobody ever take that away. >> the voices among thousands
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who came to say goodbye to michael brown at his funeral on monday. when we come back, we will hear highlights from the funeral including michael brown's cousin, the family's lawyer benjamin crump, and the reverend al sharpton. stay with us. ♪ [music break]
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>> "he saw the best in me" and michael brown's funeral. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. is in st. louis. as return out to michael brown's funeral held monday in st. louis, missouri, 2500 people filled the sanctuary of the friendly temple missionary baptist church to say goodbye, another 2000 filled overflow rooms. michael brown's black and gold casket was topped with red roses similar to the hundreds of roses laid in the street since he was killed, along with the red cardinal cap he wore as he was shot. large photographs of brown as a young boy in teenager stood on either side. his parents were joined by
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hundreds of extremely family members, but did not eat. -- extended family members, but did not speak. michael brown senior's tribute in the funeral program read -- mother'srown's tribute read -- we begin with michael brown's cousin, ty pruitt. >> i fell honored to stand up here and speak for my family because we have come so far. and that trail led us to god, and that is who we walk with right now. and that is what keeps us strong . and that is what lets us know that one day -- one day we're going to flood the streets with unity and we're going to talk about freedom and we're going -- when i look out those windows,
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those who stand in the middle of the street will be more beautiful than any rainbow they've ever seen. but not today. to hit theoing streets again and we're going to yell out for our freedom and equality and we're going to allow mike's name. it is going to shake the heavens from the thunder that we release. but not today. peace.s for peace and quiet. we will lay our son, brother, family, young our man, young black man, young human being. but we don't say goodbye. we say "good journey until we meet again."
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[applause] he was the lead attorney for trayvon martin's family, now here in ferguson as the lead attorney for the family of michael brown, junior. i want to bring to you attorney benjamin crump as he brings the reverend al sharpton. [applause] 160 two years ago, about 10 miles from this great building where we say our final respects to young michael brown, junior. they say it is still referred to as the old courthouse where the missouri supreme court issued the threat scott decision, reverend jackson.
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substance, that decision was that a person of african , nor will theyot ever does with a ever to be considered a citizen pursuant to the united states constitution. concludeould logically that this follows the president 3/5 amendment7 that said an african-american was to be considered 3/5 of a man. but we declare here today as we pay our final respects to michael brown, junior that he was not 3/5 of a citizen. he was an american citizen.
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and we will not accept 3/5 justice. we will demand equal justice for michael brown, jr. [applause] so that legal reference i bring to you one of the most influential civil rights leaders of our history, reverend al sharpton. [applause] >> this is about justice. this is about fairness. america is going to have to come with there is something wrong that we have money to give military equipment to police
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forces, but we don't have money for training and money for public education and money to train our children. [applause] think wehow do you when the world can see you can't come up with a police report, that you can find a video -- [cheers]
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how do you think we look when marchedople nonviolently asking for the land of the free and the home of the brave to hear their cry, and you put snipers on the roof and pointed guns at them? how do we look? [cheers] how do we look? how do we look when people that , and theye officer
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have a right to do that and an obligation if they feel that -- but if they support him, their supporters. but if we come to support the family, we're dividing the country. [cheers] ?hat does god require of us weeks, we saw a woman in los angeles laid out on the freeway, congresswoman maxine waters.
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a california highway patrol men hit him 15 times on video with no weapon in her hand, no threat to her. right after that, a man, they ed cigarettesos and they put an illegal chokehold on him. the man said 11 times, "i could not breathe." and the policeman would not let him go. michaelat week, we see lang on the ground -- laying on the ground. america, it is time to deal with policing. we are not the haters. we are the healers. [applause] what does it require of us? we can't have a fit.
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we have got to have a movement. a fit, you get mad and run out for couple of nights. a movement means we have got to be here for the long haul and turn our chance into change. our demonstration into legislation. we have got to stay on this so we can stop this. >> the reverend al sharpton speaking monday in st. louis, missouri the funeral for michael brown. among the guests who attended the service were a number of congress members, mark luther king iii, reverie jesse jackson, the families of trayvon martin and shandong, celebrities like spike lee and diddy. we go back to aaron maté who was there as michael brown's casket was brought outside the church. >> it is just after the funeral service and we are waiting for the coffin of mike brown to be
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taken to the hearse in front of us. the reverend al sharpton just wrapped up the service and has led a group of dignitaries to just outside. michael brown, senior leaving the service, being greeted by the crowds that have assembled here outside of the church. >> everything was wonderful. he said he was going to be a legacy, and he was. he did not know how, but he did it. >> what comes next? unity tond together in stop the violence. let stand up and do the right way, the way martin luther king taught us to do it. >> the service was wonderful. i thought reverend sharpton did href job in outlining -- terrific job in outlining injustice and so forth.
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people that are supposed to protect you are shooting you down. this is just another situation that happened in the 1950's. in fact, it is worse. theuse it is done by policeman. that is ridiculous. that's all i got to a. >> in the scorching 100 degree heat, as we leave the church watching this motorcade bring michael brown to his final resting place, people are out in the street waving their arms and thatting that rally cry has defined this movement since the killing of michael brown, "hands up, don't shoot." residents of this neighborhood right by the church have come out of their homes to send off the motorcade that will take michael brown to his final resting place. >> i was really touched. i just sent my son away to school. have an 18-year-old, so it
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hits home. so to not be able to see your child go away, it really hits home. so i really feel for that family. >> i live right here and this is just an emotional breakdown. i've never seen anything like it. i did not grow up and the civil rights time, but i can definitely imagine walking in their shoes, fighting for a cause. >> michael brown's parents requested that civilian motorcyclists, not police, escort the long funeral procession to their son's grave. special thanks to democracy now! aaron maté and hanny masoud. when we come back, libya. stay with us. ♪ [music break]
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>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. return estimate of epigenetic strengthening its most intense fighting since the 2011 u.s.-backed campaign to remove the market off the. "the new york times" reported weekrikes twice in last against islamist allied militias battling for control of tripoli. was the situation in libya with vijay prashad. he is the author of several books including, "arab spring, libyan winter." and most recently, "the poorer nations: a possible history of the global south."
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explainby asking him to what is happening in libya now. what's today cairo and sisters from north africa our meeting because bolivian crisis has become so severe. bolivia has a very long border with egypt. it has a long border with syria and tunisia. these are the three countries that are most terrified about the spillover of the violence. ? it is nots violence the violence began yesterday so they have an emergency meeting. this violence has been ongoing since 2011. the war against muammar gaddafi has been prosecuted was that -- first i should explain something about libya to understand the nature of the war. libya is like indonesia except in between the little island cities there is desert. there is very little countryside. these are cities. what happened when muammar
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gaddafi felt the resistance against his ruling in 2011 was benghazi andom elsewhere, the cities immediately seceded. what is so interesting, they seceded as cities, as benghazi, not as a major libyan uprising. -- each citysing had its own militia. these urban militias for certain political character. there was an attempt briefly by nato to try to create a unified command. but they basically gave that up. they bombed the country and open the door for the different militias to not compete against each other. so the day muammar gaddafi was killed, from then onward, the militias have basically been at each other's throats. interestingly, the government intricately, which to some
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extent dominates the oil revenues, has been paying each of these militias -- it is amazing. the government in tripoli is paying the militias and have both been attacking the government in tripoli. coulda very weird and kille kill your situation. >> why pay them? >> there was a long process where pressure was brought. these are people who are financial advisors. the first major leader of the national transitional government [indiscernible] flew in on a nato aircraft. they arrived in tripoli. in order to keep the peace, they
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decided to pay off every one of the little urban militias. they continued that. now these militias are basically at each other's throats. it is exaggeration as well to say, for instance, the militia that was holding the airport is secular. the ms. rodda is islamist or has the muslim brotherhood cast, which has now taken the airport in the city. these are true adjectives. they have very different factors. the militia that has taken the city of tripoli is largely a muslim brotherhood force. in the city of benghazi, which was the origin of the reward, there is a very bloody battle between two forces. one is sharia, a group of alleged to have attacked the us
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consulate and kill the american man youor, against should be for mayor with, the man who was a major gaddafi general defected from the adoptee in 1987 through two be live 10virginia to minutes from the cia headquarters in langley. then a few weeks into the rebellion and benghazi, was flown back into benghazi with the american hope you would take over unified command and that failed. over the last three years he has coup ind to create a libya and it failed. intricately,o so he is decided to position himself as the great savior of libya and march forces into benghazi.
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some say this is at the behest of the americans. whatever it may be, in the eastern side of libya, there is . murderous force in tripoli as well as other cities in western libya, there is a murderous war being waged between two militias. led by a man who rulings to see terrible who suffers post-traumatic stress disorder. >> and he suffers ptsd from what? >> largely from the nature of the conflict that he was on the front lines of. on natole who flew in planes and took positions were not the battlefield. the people were like -- not only
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that, there were people who fought in the national jihad around the role. people who are members of the libyan islamic fighting group, which had a major role in the 1990's inside libya. they went abroad. they went to al qaeda and afghanistan. they returned and many of them have been fighting in chechnya, in philippines, in afghanistan. so these people have very severe mental problems. unfortunately -- >> how do they express the mental problems? >> for instance, if people disagree with him -- he is like a gang leader. last her he was angry with the parliament and decided they were not doing what they said they were going to do, so he brought a group of fighters and they stormed the parliament building. earlier this year, he tried -- told the government if he is not made head of libyan intelligence, he is going to kill parliamentarians.
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the libyan parliament has decided now, most likely, they will meet on a cruise ship off the coast of tripoli because they are too scared. they haven't met in the parliament will lend. they decided to meet and a five-star hotel because the security is better. and now they might move offshore. you can see the state of libyan politics. >> professor vijay prashad, your post of u.s. intervention in 2011, the ouster of muammar gaddafi. can you talk about why? >> yes. there are two reasons why i was principally opposed to the use of american and nato forces. the first reason was i had a very clear sense of who's going to benefit from this. develops take time to alternative leadership. they take time to develop new forms of political power. if nato is going to come in and its libyani, destroy state immediately and allow
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these different occupied illegal militias to take power, it was going to lead to chaos. that was one of the principal reasons. the second reason i was opposed to u.s. and nato force was that by the time the americans started talking about intervening, 1/3 of libya was out of mr. muammar gaddafi's hands. if you travel to libya, egypt, and syria prior to the arab, you would find something interesting. in libya, since 1987, the military has been a wreck. you could walk in and out of a base without being asked questions. the military was a shambles. , he camemar gaddafi running back to tripoli and said, poppa, it is over, we lost been gaza. rule wass
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going to fall. in egypt, the military is very powerful but you will find something interesting. these soldiers have dark skin compared to the other egyptians. they are recruited from upper egypt. they're very disciplined, but they are not exactly with high morale. in syria, the military is very high morale. it is often amazing to me. i keep wondering why the turks and others believe the syrian regime was going to fall. they're completely different military structures. numeral route is completely different. so the second reason i opposed intervention in libya was it was notable muammar gaddafi was going to lose power. let the process take its own way. let them fight a little bit. let there be a political dialogue within the rebellion. let them create alternative structures of power. if you just give the libyan people a destroyed country, how are they going to build a future? and that is the real danger of
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aerial bombardment of this style the americans conduct. they level countries and then tell people to create a democracy. it doesn't work like that. i think a different outcome might have been possible. >> what do you think it is critical for people to understand about the forces that support libya right now and where you feel it will go? >> who supports libya right now? let's do the drum roll. the united states has withdrawn from libya. the french and england have withdrawn their embassies. essentially, abandoning libya. i haven't seen much talk amongst these countries. all that noise about the massacre of people. etc. e to protect, all of that stuff has managed. now what i hear from samantha power is there needs to be a
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political process. hello, that could've been the language in 2011. there needs to be politics. >> how much violence was there before 2011 and then when gaddafi fell? >> violence has been there for a long time. a 1999, brutally inside prison, killing 200 people inside a prison. when u.s. was exporting prisoners to muammar be tortured,t to nobody said anything. the united states used extraordinary rendition, brought in members of the libyan islamic fighting group including one senior fighter whose wife was i think seven months pregnant. they were caught in malaysia, brought to tripoli. when they walked into trouble he, the head of the security services said, "i have been expecting you." what we're saying is, the violence has been there in libya
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for a long time. what i question is these bursts of great human a turning concern. it doesn't seem to be authentic to me. >> the whole controversy around benghazi, the congressional committee that is going to be investigating. how does that play into what is happening in libya right now? >> it is a bizarre thing. when americans say benghazi, with a mean is hillary clinton's attempt to become president. i don't think a mac is really care anymore about what is happening in libya, to be honest. i think this is entirely about hillary clinton's march to the white house and the republicans attempt to stymie her move. see how shested to is trying to dodge all the potential bullets coming from the right wing of the republican party. i don't really think people care about libya. important human rights activists
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have been assassinated in benghazi. senior figures of the government have been killed. the prime minister of libya at one point had to flee the country and then went to germany. the prime minister of the country fled. where was the excitement? the word benghazi only because of a very important event in the career of hillary clinton. i think that tells you a great deal about the nature of american foreign policymaking. that it is so insular. >> how does libya fit into the story of the middle east right now and the surge of isis, a group that you have been following for a longtime? >> well, it is funnel to the entire story -- fundamental to the entire story. people are saying at any moment the great militia might declare he is an isis man. these things are possible. al qaedaok at other
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manifestations, many times people -- the opportunisticly say they are al qaeda. they trafficked people across the sahara. traffickers, arms traffickers. it suited their purpose to seven become al qaeda to create an alliance. it is not improbable. is very dangerous. it creates new kinds of confidence and new kinds of sensibilities that we're going to fight to win. we're not just fighting to secure our town anymore, we are going to take all of north africa. that is why the leaders are meeting in cairo. egyptians are very afraid this is going to is held directly -- spilled directly. >> where does the government stand on what is happening in libya? >> they want to build a big wall to prevent it from entering.
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egyptians have threatened several times they could enter to stop any attempt at movement toward egypt. there have been troop movement on the border. hoping -- the militaries are hoping [indiscernible] one of the interesting features of the arab spring, and unspoken feature, is always speaking to a senior military officer in egypt and he said, all of you people, you report about people on the streets and what is happening with the muslim brotherhood. what you don't know is through all this, the militaries of egypt, syria, iraq, etc., we've been in communication with each other. they have acted as liaison. there certain opinions about how things should run. for an example, when mr. morsi at a major rally gave a speech or he said to people -- >> when he was president.
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>> said, go and fight in syria. after he stepped down from the podium, a senior clerk spoke and said, the shia of the great enemy. a few days later, there's hardly a shia population in egypt, but -- basically was slaughtered on the street. the military decided to move. because of this gesture, go and fight in egypt. he said, we must be a proud egyptian military and we don't want to see a ragtag group of people. we don't want to see greater arabia turned into afghanistan. the egyptian military, despite the politics, has very close liaison with the syrian military and similarly, with the libyan military. the general is reclaiming the mantle of the united military. oneall must sure he is the
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-- i am almost sure he is the one in touch with the egyptian military. systems another nervous in this region. it is not just the globalization of people, the globalization of muslim brotherhood, the globalization of al qaeda. there's also a kind of linkage of the military. they have a certain view of how this state should function. therefore, they will support some of these initiatives. i don't think egyptians -- from trinityhad college in hartford, connecticut, author of several books including, "arab spring, libyan winter." and most recently, "the poorer nations: a possible history of the global south." to see the rest of our interview, you can go to democracynow.org. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]
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