tv Democracy Now LINKTV January 13, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PST
01/13/15 01/13/15 01/13/15 01/13/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from pacifica this is democracy now! >> and busy news terrorism analyst evan kohlmann. >> live from paris, the author of "the islamic state." >> germany now terrorism expert steve emerson. >> inside the world of terrorism experts. who are the pundits the corporate media analyzing world events from the u.s. wars in the middle east to the attacks in
the middle east. we will speak to glenn greenwald and lisa stampnitzky, author of "disciplining terror: how experts invented 'terrorism.'" then as the french magazine charlie hebdo publishes its first issue since last week's attacks, we look at press freedom with reporters without borders. then to nigeria. >> there are wildly different accounts of the numbers and you're going from 100 two 2000 and we have not been able to verify that. what is clear, one eyewitness is talking about how when he was fleeing, he was tripping on bodies the whole way. so clearly a large number of people were killed. >> as many as 2,000 people are feared dead in an attack by militants from boko haram in the north eastern nigerian town of baga. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.
france is deploying an unprecedented 10,000 soldiers inside its own country in the wake of last week's deadly shootings at a kosher grocery store and the magazine charlie hebdo. the soldiers will join nearly 5,000 police officers mobilized to guard jewish schools, train stations and other sites. france has also announced steps to increase electronic spying. authorities say several members of a cell suspected in the attack may still be at large. video footage appears to show hayat boumeddiene, the partner of supermarket shooter amedy coulibaly, arriving in turkey days before the attack. turkish authorities say she went to a part of syria controlled by the islamic state. as the victims are laid to rest, the magazine charlie hebdo is preparing to publish its first issue since the attack on wednesday. the cover features the prophet
muhammad holding a sign that reads, "i am charlie," with the headline "all is forgiven." secretary of state john kerry has announced he will fly to paris later this week in a show of support for france. the news comes as the obama administration has come under fire for not sending obama or another top official to join 40 world leaders and 1.7 million people at a free speech rally sunday. white house press secretary josh earnest acknowledged it was a desk should have sent a top official. >> asked whether or not the united states should've sent someone with a higher profile, then the ambassador to france, and i think it is for it is that we should have sent someone with a higher profile to be there. that said, there is no doubt that the american people, and this administration, stand behind our allies in france as they face down this threat.
>> it is unclear why attorney general eric holder, who was in paris for meetings, did not attend the rally. in germany, a record 25,000 people joined an anti-islam rally in the german city of dresden. the far-right group pegida has held weekly rallies against islam, but mondays was the largest to date. some marchers carried sign that read "je suis charlie," in purported solidarity with the charlie hebdo victims. the anti-islam movement appears to be spreading after the attacks, with hundreds rallying in oslo, norway, monday and more actions planned in austria and switzerland. but across germany, an estimated 100,000 people joined counter-protests against islamophobia. and german chancellor angela merkel called for unity. >> i would like to add our former president said that islam along to germany. this is true. i shared this view.
that is why we're doing of we can to make integration a success. >> chancellor merkel will join a unity rally organized by muslim groups to denounce terrorism. nigeria has said the death toll from an attack by boko haram in the northeast stands at 150, including a number of militants, despite reports the toll may be far higher. the government has previously been accused of downplaying such tolls. local officials say as many as 2,000 people may have been killed when boko haram attacked baga and the surrounding area. in what may be its deadliest attack to date. the islamist militant group is also suspected in a pair of suicide attacks over the weekend , where explosives were strapped to young girls. cameroon, meanwhile, says it killed 143 boko haram militants who attacked a base near the nigerian border. the obama administration will not force "new york times" investigative reporter james
risen to testify at the trial of his alleged source. jeffrey sterling, whose trial is set to open today, is accused of giving risen secret information that revealed a botched cia plot to disrupt iran's nuclear program. risen had risked jail time as part of a seven-year legal battle with the administration in a case that came to symbolize its crackdown on whistleblowers. the obama administration has pursued more leak cases than all its predecessors combined. hackers claiming allegiance to the islamic state have penetrated the social media accounts of the u.s. military's central command, which oversees the u.s. strikes in iraq and syria. central command shut down its youtube and twitter accounts after a series of posts sympathetic to isis. white house press secretary josh earnest downplayed comparisons between monday's hack and the earlier data breach against sony pictures, which the administration blames on north
korea. >> i can tell you this is something we're looking into an something we take seriously. however, a note of caution to folks as they are covering this story, it is a significant different between -- difference between what is a large data breach and the hacking of a twitter account. >> a new mexico prosecutor has filed murder charges against two police officers for the killing of a mentally ill homeless man , which ignited protests against the albuquerque police department. the officers, keith sandy and dominique perez, will now face a public, preliminary hearing before a judge for the killing of james boyd last march. boyd had been confronted by police for sleeping on an unauthorized site. police said he was armed with knives, but video from a police helmet camera shows boyd apparently agreeing to surrender and turning away to pick up his belongings before officers fire a flashbang grenade, release a
dog on him, and open fire. at a news conference, district attorney kari brandenburg said proceedings against the officers would be more transparent than the secret grand juries in other states which declined to indict the officers who killed michael brown and eric garner. clocks unlike ferguson and unlike in new york city, some recent high-profile cases, we are going to know, the public will have that information. you are going to see the witnesses, hear the arguments and you'll understand, hope the, perhaps why the judgment the decision that he or she made. >> albuquerque police have been involved in more than 40 shootings since 2010, 27 of them fatal. last year, a scathing justice department probe found most of the fatal shootings were unconstitutional. it's the first time albuquerque police involved in a shooting have faced murder charges. in new york city, a new report
has found police have continued to use chokeholds like the one used against eric garner, even though they are banned by department policy. the report looked at 10 cases of banned chokeholds over the past five years. while a review board recommended the highest levels of punishment in nine of the cases, the most officers ever faced was a loss of vacation days. the lawmakers of new ascendant have advanced legislation to approve the keystone xl oil pipeline, despite a vow by president obama to veto it. a final vote is expected on friday. wisconsin republican congressmember paul ryan has announced he will not run for president in 2016. the former vice presidential candidate, known for promoting deep cuts in public spending says he wants to pay undivided attention to his new post as chair of the house ways and means committee. ryan's former running mate, 2012 republican presidential candidate mitt romney, has
signaled he may run again and reportedly has begun contacting backers in key states. a wall street banker tapped by president obama for a top post at the treasury department has removed himself from the running following opposition from progressives led by massachusetts senator elizabeth warren. warren had criticized the nomination of antonio weiss, who has spent 20 years at the financial firm lazard, where he worked on so-called tax inversions with companies like burger king which have moved overseas to dodge u.s. taxes. more than 160,000 people had signed a petition calling for the senate to reject weiss' nomination to the third highest post at treasury. after withdrawing from consideration for that post, he has taken a job as counselor to treasury secretary jack lew. and a federal judge has struck down south dakota's ban on same-sex marriage. judge karen schreier ruled the
ban "deprives same-sex citizens of a fundamental right," but she placed the ruling on hold pending an appeal. same-sex marriage is currently legal in 36 states and and washington, d.c. and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman and aaron mate. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. as we continue to cover the fallout from last week's attacks in paris, we turn now to look at the growing field of so-called terrorism experts. >> with me is nbc news terrorism analyst evan kohlmann. >> that exists in print society between muslims and non-muslims are far more severe than in the united states. >> lie from paris, he is the author of "the islamic state." >> the landscape of jihad is an and terrorism is deeply changing and proving to be a much harder
task than it used to be for the intelligence service, because it is very, very difficult now to spot and a stop the threats. >> joining me now, terrorism expert steve emerson. >> when i was in brussels a year ago, when i asked the police to take me to the islamic zone or the islamic community area, they refused. they said, we don't go there. this goes on in belgium and sweden in the netherlands and france. it goes on in italy. he goes on throughout europe. >> a few of the so-called terrorism experts that have appeared on television over the past week. that last voice was steve emerson who made international headlines this weekend after this appearance on jeanine pirro's show on fox news. >> developing tonight, the reports terrorist sleeper cells may have been activated in france. this as we're learning new details about hundreds of no go zones across france and other countries that are off-limits to non-muslims.
steve emerson joins us. >> they exist not only in france, but throughout europe. there are sort of amorphous. they're not contiguous, necessarily, but safe havens in places where the governments like france, britain, sweden germany -- they don't exercise any sovereignty. you basically have zones where sharia courts have been set up, where muslim density is very intense, worthy police togo in, and basically a separate country almost. the country within a country. >> it sounds like a caliphate within a particular country. >> is really does sound like that. in britain, it is not just no go zones, there are cities like birmingham that are totally muslim, were non-muslims simply don't go in. >> while steve emerson claimed birmingham was totally muslim, it is in fact a predominantly christian city.
emerson who describes himself as one of the leading authorities appeared on the bbc monday and apologized. >> i relied on incorrect research. it was totally responsible for me not to have that check the information -- fact checked information. it was not done out of malice, but out of total the responsible journalistic practice, which are usually and uniformly don't practice. clocks are you aware our prime and mr. has called you a complete idiot? >> yes, i'm aware. >> what does that make you feel? >> not great. mistakes are made. >> while steve emerson is making headlines today, many questions have been raised about the entire field of terrorism experts. another so-called expert, evan kohlmann has been described as
the "the doogie howser of terrorism'" for building a career based on essays he wrote on al qaeda as an undergrad. we are joined now by two guests who have closely analyzed this issue. joining us from boston is lisa stampnitzky. she is a lecturer on social studies at harvard university and the author of "disciplining terror: how experts invented 'terrorism.'" and in rio de janeiro is pulitzer prize-winning journalist glenn greenwald co-founder of the intercept and author of "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa, and the u.s. surveillance state." glenn, let's begin with you. the terror attacks, the paris attacks took place last week and the so-called terror experts are in very prominent all over the networks. can you talk about who we are hearing from? >> the concept of terrorism is a very widely debated concept all over the world, and there are
incredibly diverse and opinions, even about what terrorism is who it is that is perpetrating it, how it is you define and understand it, and whether or not there is even a meaningful definition of the term at all. and yet you have all of the so-called terrorism experts employed by leading american television networks -- all of them, really -- and on whom most establishment newspapers rely who are called terrorism experts and yet are incredibly homogenous in their views because they scout the very homogenized american conception of all of those questions. it is an incredibly propagandized term and set of theories that they have. that is really what these media outlets are doing, there masquerading pro-u.s. top again a, pro-u.s. propaganda when it is anything but these incredibly ideological people very loyal to the view of the u.s. government about very controversial questions. they said the right to express
their opinions, but the pretense to expertise is incredibly fraudulent. that is why they have not just steve emerson, but really all of them were held up as the most prominent terrorism experts in the u.s. have a shameful history of incredible error and all sorts of very dubious claims because they're really just ranked propagandists. >> what allows them to continue her patch awaiting these myths that -- perpetuating these myths? what is the dynamic that allows this expert industry to keep going? >> there are several aspects to it. one is the u.s. government has an interest in making people believe it's very particular self-serving views of terrorism are not subjective or debatable but are in fact objective expertise. they do all sorts of things to prop these people up all start they give them contracts. they pay them lots of money to teach people inside the government about terrorism. most disturbingly, they continuously called them
"experts in terrorism" trials and all of these experts dutifully march forth and say whatever the government wants about the muslim defendants who are on trial and help the government obtained conviction after conviction and get a lot of money in the process. part of it is just the role that think tanks play in washington which is to lend this kind of intellectual artifice to whatever the government's policy is or whatever the government wants. you have a lot of them who work at think tanks like brookings institute, like one who misled media outlets and believing for a full day and telling the world a thenders breivik attack in norway was that of a jihadist group. even the more respectable once generally spout the conventional orthodoxy of the american government about terrorism come a therefore, very much an interest of u.s. government in these media outlets to continue to depict them not as highly opinionated just participants in
debates, but actual academic experts. that is where the fraudulent aspect comes in. >> i want to bring in professor lisa stampnitzky. your book is called "disciplining terror: how experts invented 'terrorism.'" what do you mean by disciplining? >> disciplining terror has a dual meaning. on the one hand, refers to the attempts of states to get control over the problem of terrorism. on the other hand, it refers to the attempts to develop discipline of terrorism studies. and that problematic field is the story i'm telling in the book. >> what is your assessment of the merits of this field in terms of its level of expertise and seriousness? >> one of the conclusions i draw is it is a very peculiar field in terms of field of expertise. because there is no strict
robberies around it. there's no control according to who can be an expert. there's no credentialing. you have people coming on tv who are just sort of spouting hysteria and not drawing on any real expert knowledge. and even those who are more serious in the field, have no ability to regulate who gets called an expert. >> in 2008, self-described "terrorism consultant," evan kohlmann was interviewed on the public radio newshour the takeway. host john hockenberry challenged kohlmann on his level of expertise. >> this is a far ranging international conspiracy that began as many as two decades ago , involved hundreds of different people spread around different places in the world, and it is also based in a language and culture, to be honest, very few americans are familiar with. >> speaking of that, do you think now that the movie has been played in open court and you have achieved a certain
amount of notoriety that it might be time to learn arabic, maybe go to afghanistan or pakistan? familiarize yourself with the culture? >> i have a degree in islam. i do speak some arabic. i am not fluent, but in terms of traveling to pakistan, trying to do this research right now in pakistan is externally difficult. trying to even get into pakistan right now to do this is externally difficult. >> gleen greenwald, your comment? >> there are so many of them like that. he is one of the people called by the us government in these prosecutions, really dubious prosecutions of american muslims for really remote charges of material support for terrorism and his expertise is basically just that he gets called an expert. by the u.s. government the more he gets called to testify, the more that expertise builds. that is really the only foundation for it, that some people call him a next her because it is in their interest to do so -- called him an expert
because it is in their interest to do so. another, has a long history of unbelievable erroneous claims that he makes in service of this agenda, they get paid a lot of money, too. he goes on -- they go on nbc news get paid for it. they get called as an expert in court. and yet as lisa said, there's really no foundation for the expertise. there is no phd's they have in studies. there's not even an agreement about what the word "terrorism" means, which is why the old cliché that one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist is so resoundingly true. you can have debates about what terrorism is, about who perpetrates it, and yet all of these so-called experts simply assume the answers to those questions because if they were, for example, to say, the u.s. government is a state sponsor of terrorism i virtue of its support for death squads in el salvador or the contras in
nicaragua or any of the other groups across the united states or the world that the united states continues to support that engages in violence against civilians for political ins, he would immediately have them eliminated. no major network like cnn or msnbc or in would ever call some of you like that a terrorism expert, even of that is a very plausible claim to make. it is an extremely ideological and politicized view that gets called expertise. they don't even have the basic attributes of what we generally consider the makes some of the inexpert. >> you personally use the word "terror" or avoid it entirely? >> i generally avoid it. you could probably find instances in my writing or have invoked the term, usually just ironically or to refer to the fact that someone else is using it but i do think until we have an understanding of what that term means a really is a term that ought to be avoided. there are some amazingly great scholarly research by room
berlin where he traces the history of this term in political discourse. what he has described in a very scholarly way is that the term "terrorism" became prevalent in the discourse of international affairs in the late 1960's and early 1970's when the israelis sought to use the term to universalize their disputes with their neighbors so they could say, we're not fighting the palestinians and we're not bombing lebanon over just some land disputes, but fighting this concept that is of grave menace to the world called terrorism. it is not only our fight, but your fight in the united dates and europe and around the world. there are all of these conferences in the late 1960's and early 1970's and in good -- and even into the 1980's where neocons are attempting to come up with a definition of the term "terrorism" that includes the violence they want to view,
meaning their adversaries, while legitimizing excluding the violence legitimize the violence of our allies, and it was virtually impossible to come up with a definition. that is why there really is no agreed-upon definition. the term is incredibly malleable because it is typically meant as a term that says any violence we don't like is something we're going to call terrorism. at this point, it really just means violence engaged in by muslims against the west. that is really the definition of the term terrorism, the functional definition. >> i remember at the beginning -- at the oklahoma city bombing attack wind two names of arab men were floated. it turns out they were new york taxi drivers who got okemos city to renew their licenses. at those names were put out by the media, and then there was a question, was this a terrorist attack? when it turns out it was timothy mcveigh, timothy mcveigh worked with other people, had all the
definition of a terrorist attack , then it wasn't. oh, no, it was timothy mcveigh. and he did this. a white christian man. no longer did we refer to it as a terrorist attack. >> right. that happens all the time. first of all, it was steve emerson just said that birmingham was an all muslim city that no non-muslims can enter, who went on the air and was the most influential and shaking what you just described and he said, the attempt here was to kill as many people as possible which is a middle east attribute. therefore, we should assume or highly speculate this is likely an attack perpetrated a someone from the middle east someone who is muslim. that is how the narrative started. steve emerson's career did not suffer at all from that. if you watch how these attacks are discussed, every time there's an attack where the
assailant or perpetrator is unknown, the media will say this unknown whether or not terrorism is involved. what they really mean is it is unknown whether or not the perpetrator is muslim. as soon as they discover the perpetrator is a christian or american, white american, they will say, we now have information this is not a terrorist attack. someone who is mentally unstable, some extremist, something like that. it is a term that functionally now means nothing other than muslims who engage in violence against the west. >> with a perfect example in colorado springs. there was a bomb that was affixed that blew up outside the naacp. the media is not saying right now is the menace looked for, there is a search for a terrorist going on right now on her own soil in colorado. >> yeah, i remember there was an individual named joseph stack who flew an airplane into a government building in texas into the side of the irs,
actually. the first several hours of the reporting, it was said the suspicion is that this is a terraced attack because it was on a government facility. when was discovered he was a right-wing anti-tax, antigovernment american, they said actually, this isn't a terraced attack, just this crazy person who did this for political ins. i was in canada about two months ago when those two attacks happened. first one in québec and the other in ottawa. the first one in the outskirts of québec was to people who had waited two hours in the car to see a soldier, a canadian soldier, the targeted him and ran him over. that was ran as a terrorist attack, even other purposefully avoided targeting civilians and targeted a soldier of a country that is at war. it really is a term that is so modeled and confused in terms of how it is used and it is used for very specific agendas and very ideological purposes.
talks were going to take a break in and come back to this discussion. we're talking to gleen greenwald of theintercept and also speaking with lisa stampnitzky a lecturer on social studies at harvard university and the author of "disciplining terror: how experts invented 'terrorism.'" stay with us. ♪ [music break]
>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. our guests are glenn greenwald and lisa stampnitzky. and we're joined from paris by luc mathieu, foreign affairs reporter for the french newspaper liberation who was written critically of so-called terrorism "expert" samuel laurent. he appeared on cnn last week with host brooke baldwin.
>> live from paris, the author of "the islamic state." samuel, nice to see you. making the point about how this totally seems to be changing the game in the face of terror, similarly local perhaps french natives from perhaps a much larger organization, when you watch the video very trained what is your read on this? >> basically, what you have to understand is the situation has changed a lot from the time -- basically, al qaeda was operating sales, breeding them and they were targeting specific objectives. note the islamic state, what has changed is the caliph is supposed to be the leader of the believers. therefore, issues some quarters
-- orders. some of the orders in october and november has been to kill the french by any possible means. that was his words. >> that is samuel laurent. luc mathieu, you have written about who he is. can you talk about him? >> he's not a journalist. he is not a former member [indiscernible] which mean nothing. he is written three books [indiscernible] i investigated. basically, nothing is holding together. the facts are not matching.
places he is supposed to go are not matching. a lot of nonsense in these books. >> lisa stampnitzky, what do think the experts are missing? what should they be looking at that the so-called experts are not? >> i think one of the key difficulties is, a as glenn mentioned, there's no subtle definition of what terrorism is. and insofar as there is a common understanding of what terrorism is, it tends to be that it is violence that we don't like. one of the most interesting things i show in my book is that wasn't always the case. i look at, do they fund terrorism from the 1970's until 2001? if you look at when people were first starting to talk about terrorism in the early 1970's, they were talking about it in a very different way. glenn mentioned a cliché, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. that seems almost always today that these are -- you can't be a terrorist and a freedom fighter.
if you look at the way people were talking about terrorism or political violence and discord in the late 1960's and early 1970's, this wasn't considered to be in opposition. there wasn't the dysfunction that act of terror as a tactic or necessarily something that was done by people who we think are evil. there was not this moral overlay over it. this has come to be understood as so basic to understand terrorism now that it really clouds the understanding issue. >> them igo back to luc in paris. first of all, our condolences and what you're writing about right now, what you feel these terrorism experts do not bring us that we should understand about what is happening in france. >> it is perhaps really too early. we have to look back because it
comes from al qaeda in yemen. we have to look deeply [indiscernible] it is very messy right now in france because a lot of people want to know exactly where those guys come from, where they went. it is a bit early to say. cox i want to go back to fox news host a former prosecutor. this is from her show on saturday. >> we need to kill them. we need to kill them. the radical muslim terrorists hell-bent on killing us. you are in danger, i'm in danger. we are at war and this is not going to stop. after this week spread all terror attacks in france hopefully, everybody now gets
it. and there's only one group i can stop this war -- the muslims themselves. our job is to arm those muslims to the teeth, give them everything they need to take out these islamic fanatics. let them do the job. let them have at it. and as they do, we need to simply look the other way. >> that is jeanine pirro a fox news, former prosecutor and judge. glenn greenwald, your response to this and how do attitudes like these play out in the corporate media generally? >> i mean, if you listen to her that clip you just played, she's always the psychotic. that is just like bloodthirsty fascism in its purest expression. but i don't really think the substance of what she is saying to the extent one can attribute substance to those comments is
really all that rare breed in controversial in the u.s. we have been a country that is declared ourselves at war with some formulation of islam, radical muslims, would everyone to call it, something that john kerry actually just affirmed a few days ago that the french president and others have embraced as well over the last week. i think this is one of the pernicious aspects of the so-called terrorism experts and terrorism expertise, which is, if you are an american citizen or a french citizen or british citizen, you have a greater chance of being killed by slipping in the bathtub tonight and hitting her head on the ceramic tile or being struck by lightning -- literally -- and you do dying in a terraced attack. and yet the terrorism experts have it in their interest to constantly height and exaggerate the fearmonger over because that is how they become relevant. they become relevant in terms of their work and in terms of your government contracts and in terms of the money they make.
it really has infected large parts of western thinking to view terrorism as a much, much greater threat than just rationally and statistically it really is. a big part of that is the so-called terrorism experts. >> i want to think luc mathieu for speaking to us and also lisa stampnitzky, who wrote "disciplining terror erg." glenn, i want ask about general poetry is. tony charges have been recommended against david the trias for allegedly providing classified information to a woman with whom he had an extramarital affair. petraeus resigned in 2012 after admitting to cheating on his wife with his biographer, paula broadwell. the recommendation of charges stems from a probe into whether petraeus gave broadwell access to his cia email account and other sensitive material.
before leading the cia, petraeus directed troops in iraq and afghanistan. attorney general eric holder was supposed to have decided by the end of last year on whether to indict. according to the "new york times," the delay has frustrated some federal officials who have questioned whether petraeus has received special treatment at a time holder has led a crackdown on government whistleblowers. speaking on cnn sunday democratic senator dianne feinstein of california urged the department of justice not to bring criminal charges against petraeus. >> this man has suffered enough, in my view. he is the four-star general of our generation. i saw him in iraq. he put together the army field manual. you put together the awakening and how it worked out. i think he is a very brilliant man. people aren't perfect. he made a mistake. he lost his job as cia director
because of it. i mean, how much do you want to punish somebody? >> that is dianne feinstein saying general betray us is not perfect, he is a very brilliant man, so he should not be indicted. your response to this, glenn greenwald? >> i mean, even though dianne feinstein is a really good democrat and even know what she just said she used as kind of soft tones to save, is actually one of the most disgusting remarks you'll ever hear. i did not even realize the full extent of that until i just heard that video. what she is actually saying is that because david the trias is a really important person, she says he is a four-star general four-star general of our generation and a brilliant man that he should be immunized from consequences for his lawbreaking. he suffered enough. what is so amazing about that, first of all, the united states imprisoned more of its citizens
than any other country in the world for trivial transgression you would never hear dianne feinstein or any of those people in washington saying about ordinary people, oh, they have suffered enough, they lost their jobs, have been taken away from their family, let's freedom from prison but the more amazing thing is, dianne feinstein is someone who is called all sorts of people leakers and she defends david trias. >> explain what general pretorius did -- general pretorius did. >> what he did actually wasn't that bad. what he essentially is accused of doing is sharing classified information with his mistress and biographer paula broadwell. if you were to say to me in a vacuum should he face felony charges for that, i would probably say no, was pretty benign, something he's a lot of done but it doesn't strike me as a really serious violation. the problem is, the obama administration has prosecuted a
whole array of leakers and put them in prison for behavior at least as innocuous if not much more so. steven kim allegedly fox news's source for very harmlessly gone north korea is sitting in prison . of course they charge edward snowden with felony charges come even know there is zero evidence of any national security harm. he did not actually leak anything to the public, only gave it to journalist. dianne feinstein wrote an op-ed calling for julian assange to be prosecuted under the espionage act. you have this whole array of people -- >> chelsea manning has been sentenced to more than 35 years. >> 35 years in prison and dianne feinstein supports that prosecution. you have these noble leakers have not harmed national security endangered nobody, and been put into prison are threatened with prison for a very long time and you have david petraeus who all of washington is now acting to protect because he is a
political elite and one of them and they do not believe "they" or people like them should be subjected to the rule of law which is what makes the dianne feinstein mentality so dangerous. >> glenn greenwald, pulitzer prize-winning journalist. his recent pieces for the intercept include, "dianne feinstein, strong advocate of leak prosecutions, demands immunity for david petraeus" and "in solidarity with a free press: some more blasphemous cartoons." his most recent book is called "no place to hide: edward snowden, the nsa, and the u.s. surveillance state." we will link to it at democracynow.org. when we come back, the head of reporters without borders has just flown in from paris. we will speak with her and then talk about what is happening nigeria. stay with us.
>> this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with aaron maté. >> the group reporters without borders is condemning what it calls the "presence of 'predators'" in sunday's march over the charlie hebdo massacre. the group says it is "appalled by the presence of leaders from countries where journalists and bloggers are systematically persecuted" such as egypt, russia, turkey, and the united
arab emirates. saudi arabia joined other arab and muslim countries in condemning the attack at the same time as it faced global outrage at the public lashing of jailed blogger raif badawi. >> on friday, badawi received the first 50 of 1,000 lashes on as part of his punishment for running a liberal website devoted to freedom of speech in the conservative kingdom. one cartoon shared on social networks shows a pencil being flayed by whips. amnesty international considers badawi a prisoner of conscience who is being punished for creating an online forum for debate. well for more, we are joined in our new york studio by two guests. lucie morillon is program director for reporters without borders, and is based in paris. she arrived in the united states monday after attending sunday's march and she was at the site of the charlie hebdo attack shortly after it occurred. also with us is delphine halgand, u.s. director of reporters without borders. welcome both of you to democracy now! lucie, how did you get to the site of the attack so quickly? >> we were having a meeting
reporters without borders, with our director, and one of my colleagues came in and was waving at us saying something is happening, so we told him to come in and a was looking at him saying, this better be important because we were discussing important matters. it was. he said, we have something terrible, looks like shots have been fired at chile hebdo's offices in the mighty dead people. we grabbed bags and ran to the scene. when we arrived, are very few people. before the official delegations we were able to meet and get into the restricted areas with the officials. they knew who we are and felt it was important that reporters without borders were there.
it was very chaotic. at some point, we were wondering who was dead, what happened. a man left the office. he went into president hollande and burst into tears and said charb is dead. >> talk about the response we are seen in france since over 3.7 million people watching on sunday, a record for france. >> this attack from this deadly attack was an unprecedented attack on journalists. the response from the french society has been amazing. we have never seen that many people taking to the streets to call for freedom of the press, freedom of expression. and against all of those who are trying to silence journalists. it started on wednesday. reporters without borders called for a demonstration of that evening of that black day.
people went to the streets, hundreds of thousands of people, and there were all origins in all ages people who would read charlie hebdo and others who did not like what they would publish, but at least they felt they had the right to do it and should not be losing her life for it. >> french muslim woman holding a sign "i am jewish." >> is started with charlie in them that is horrible situation in the shop in paris. the crowd was singing on sunday, "i am a journalist for i am charlie, i am a jew, i am a policeman." >> and they're all saying je suis ahmed, the muslim police officer shot dead. >> and from the very early gatherings, the cloud crowd was cheering also for the police. >> you flew into new york and
flying right back to paris. why are you here? >> i flew in because last that we had a very important thing to do in new york. there was a gathering organized by one of our board members for an american journalist, austin tice. he has been missing for over two years. last evening was an opportunity to call for american news organizations and people to try to help us raise awareness about this case. there's a campaign to be launched soon by the advertising agency with a blindfold. the idea is to ask for news outlets to wear them on the website to show when journalists like austin ties are missing it is targeting all of us. >> what is the u.s. government doing about austin tuiice? >> that is a good question.
we are frustrated there are no information coming out. the more media there is, the more pressure there is on american authorities. >> we last had you on talking about targeting journalists in the united states. can you talk about this in light of what is happening in france? >> i think we have all been very moved to see such reports from the u.s. administration and the american citizens, all these gatherings in new york and washington have really been relayed in france and of very important. i think all french people know that american people are with us in a sense to defend our freedom. yes, press freedom is not perfect in the u.s., press freedom is not perfect in france, but today -- on sunday millions of people walked in france, all around the world, to show baby terrorists can kill journalists, but they will never kill our freedom. cooks and wondering if this
moment in france will lead to any self reflection in terms of the criticisms that have been leveled against charlie hebdo for its depiction of muslims. in large part, they feel stigmatized already, are the underclass, critics say that contributes to the insensitivity of charlie hebdo and how muslims were to pick it. no one questions the right to free expression, but does an attack like this, does at least maybe some rethinking of how muslims are caricatured in publications like charlie hebdo? >> i think you should look at all of the people gathering in the streets saying, maybe i disagree with what you're saying, but i'm here to say that you have the right to say it. i really believe that is the freedom that we are defending and the fight we are here continuing. >> what about the fact you do have laws against anti-semitism? charlie hebdo has been accused of censoring people were firing
someone who wrote something is considered anti-somatic? >> charlie hebdo is a very provocative satirical weekly. they were walking all religions all politics. they will continue to do so. i think that is the important message. >> always can ask is if they went too far, if they push the envelope on freedom of expression but, no, they exercised freedom of expression. even in france, it is for been to call for hatred, call for violence to stigmatized people but you can criticize religion. there's a difference between criticizing religion and going after people and criticizing muslims and juice and so on. the last time they were sued, they were won. even under international
standards, with the redoing was freedom of expression, not abusing it. it is important difference journalists continue to tackle this issues. the last thing we should do is resort to censorship, although i do think all of the people who died for that which a not recognize what the french media might become. >> we want to thank you but for joining us lucie morillon is , program director for reporters without borders, and is based in paris. also delphine halgand is the , u.s. director of reporters without borders. we will link to your reports at democracynow.org. as we move to our final story today. what's as the world focused on the charlie hebdo massacre in paris, one of the worst atrocities in recent memory was unfolding in nigeria. on january 3, the islamist militant group boko haram attacked the northern town of baga and surrounding areas. over the next several days hundreds, possibly thousands, of civilians were killed, leaving bodies strewn in the streets. fleeing residents were chased into the bush and shot dead, others reportedly drowning in
lake chad while trying to swim away. scores of homes were burned to the ground. estimates of the dead ranged from around 500 to up to 2,000. some 30,000 people were also displaced. >> amnesty international says the assault on baga could be the deadliest of the boko haram's six-year insurgency. for more we're joined by adotei akwei, managing director of government relations for amnesty international usa. thank you for joining us. talk about what you understand at this point has taken place in nigeria. >> thank you for having me. as aaron said, there's a major offensive by boko haram. two guns ago. they overran the nigerian forces who ran out of supplies and basically started to flee. boko haram, after consolidating control over the town, began systematically execute people. first, executing all potential
male fighters that could oppose them, but then beginning a rather indiscriminate slaughter of the elderly and people who could not flee. to this day, we do not have access to baga because it is too dangerous. the nigerian forces have not tried to retake the town. we're just trying to piece together information about how bad the killings were. >> the nigerian military responded to the baga massacre by appealing for international support. in a statement, a spokesperson suggested the attack should end critics of the army's own alleged abuses, saying -- "the attack... should convince well-meaning people all over the world that boko haram is the evil all must collaborate to end, rather than vilifying those working to check them." adotei akwei, this appears to be a message to groups like yours amnesty international who have , accused the military of war crimes during its fight against the boko haram and other armed groups.
>> that is absolutely correct. the nigerian armed forces as well as the administration have had a consistent mind of demanding or requesting assistance on their terms. amnesty international has documented at least 5000 people who have been killed at the nigerian security forces. we have also had reports -- issued a report last fall about detention were torture was basically the modus operandi and there has been no investigations and certainly no accountability. this has been the major impediment for systems from the united states to the nigerian military. and in so, it is rather stunning or rather disappointing some of the still stunning that the nigerian military is basically making the argument that the slaughter by boko haram is bad enough that it doesn't matter what methods they use, which of course, leaves the nigerian civilization at increased risk. >> why the disparity at the number of people believed dead?
the nigerian government itself is saying something like 150 100 60. you're saying you believe 2000 people were killed last week. >> we are working with people who are providing information. accurate, precise numbers will take some time to get to, but the nigerian government has first, initially downplayed the boko haram threat by underreporting numbers, then they have also denied actually events have taken place, and have also claimed certain counteroffensive's that have never been proven to have actually occurred. i think we're dealing with an administration and security forces that are determined to control the narrative and information and i think that is disservice to the nigerian people. >> what accounts for the badgering military's inability to stop these attacks? the council formit is been all since
over 200 schoolgirls were kidnapped. why have the been so incapable to do anything in the north? >> there are a number of reasons. the first that i must everyone agrees on is corruption is basically weakened the capacity of the military to operate. when boko haram seized baga two weekends ago, the military ran out of ammunition. they had to flee. that was a somewhat situation and other attacks on villages. there is a capacity issue which the nigerian military acknowledges, but does not actually reveal the extent of which. the second, i think is the morale issue. the morale issue i think is reflective of some disquiet with the hard-line response that targets males in the region as if they were boko haram