tv Quadriga - The International Talk Show LINKTV January 31, 2016 10:00am-10:31am PST
those who do make it find a bureaucracy groaning under the strain and outright hostility, especially after the cologne acts. will germany live up to the hopes of those seeking refuge? coming to you from berlin, quadriga. your host this week, peter craven. >> welcome to quadriga from the .eart of the german capital in the last year, germany has taken in more than one million refugees. initially, they were welcomed with open arms in the world looked on. the move is beginning to turn. the question we are asking is, is germany a band of false hope for refugees? i enjoined to discuss this question by three analysts and experts.
let me introduce them to you without any further reduce beginning with amir musawy. he is the german correspondent. -- she is a german television correspondent. -- he is a german television correspondent. is a political analyst from afghanistan in a former chief of staff to the current afghani president ashraf gahni. he says germany offers something never seen before to refugees but some asylum seekers seem to harbor unrealistic expectations so it is time to manage those expectations. and a warm welcome to our own deutsche welle's maissun melhem. she has reported widely on the refugee crisis. maissun billy said after the cologne sexual-harassment cases,
there atmosphere in germany is now toxic. she sees me to a constructive debate on how best to integrate migrants. i would like to begin with you. a lot of people have been coming to germany from your country, from syria. do they still now, the people arriving, if you germany as the promised land o is a more complex than that? >> it is. it is still the land of milk and honey. it is a promised land where they might find shelter and might find perspectives for the future. the debate that we are having now in germany about asylum-seekers, following cologne on new year's eve, and the isolation of angela merkel, these are things that come to
this audience only in small amounts because they do not speak the language yet. leave thewant to miserable reality they are andering in syria and iraq find a new start in a secure country with some chance of a better future. that is how they think. >> when you have talked to people who have arrived in , do people give you the impression that they believe they are getting a fair deal from germany? >> more or less. illusion ore the the division -- because it is not a welcoming -- it was not a -- it wasinvitation dealing with the humanitarian
drama which was taking place. they have this feeling that germany is a place which is , toing people, workers solve their problems. they are these people which germany is expecting. >> you come from iraq originally, you come from baghdad. >> absolutely. there are two differences between the people. some of them are following the news in germany just out of interest. there is another group which is in getting to germany. there is some concern about people who think, it is not really what we think or say or
saw on social media. it is the changing atmosphere that is already not in iraqi society. if we talk about the people in like tohey really would leave the city. >> understandably, of course. >> they would not be able to survive in kurdistan, because the cost of living is very high. the procedure many as a safe exit for them. -- they will see germany as a safe exit for them. they will accept this because what they have now is really bad. >> you are nodding? >> it is true. you either stay in your own country where the biggest
problem is lack of civility. you wake up in the morning and you do not know what is going to happen to you, in terms of job security and physical security. that is a challenge. have, there, on the benefits that you get in this country. not just financial benefits -- there are lots of advantages that this country offers. freedom, liberty. as shiite has a bigger chance of being persecuted there than in germany, so why not try germany? they have a history of immigration, and they have networks. .> i have fascinated obviously, refugees who were fleeing are happy and glad to
arrive in germany. what you are telling me provides a backdrop for something in our -- something is happening in germany. a lot of asylum-seekers are being blamed for rising crime, rent, the bureaucracy in germany being overstretched. you understand that blame? >> of course. the bureaucratic infrastructure wasn't there to digest one million refugees. of course that is a challenge. that germany has responded in an exemplary way. some refugee centers have told people not to bring close -- clothes. news makes it into the mainstream media. challenge.
the kind of people that come, criminals,be infringing upon the freedoms and liberties in this country. it doesn't mean these things are not happening. my experiencebout with miami country. we are highly misogynistic country. women who have some skin showing are going to be targeted, because they are seen as loose. they are not seen within the bounds of the moral code they have. to be honest, some of us had foreseen these problems. there was only the need for a trigger. there could be wasted tackle this. >> people from muslim countries
have been living here for the last 30 years. we never heard of something like that. does this raise any question in your mind? years, we had 40 the elite who came out. integratedlready into western society because they came here for studies, they have links. afghanistan today is much more -- >> what discounts afghanistan? >> the reason i am saying only can only talk i about what is going on in the community here and there. if you look in my family, it is way more different. we more different than other families. there are pockets of people who
would look at my wife or sister immoral.his is she is in public. she has bare legs. there are people like that who have come here. heard some statements from german politicians, arguing that the refugees should take an integration course just to learn how to behave around women. to be honest, this is ridiculous. men know how they should behave around women, especially in arab countries. they don't need someone to tell them how is the correct way. in thist answer discussion is, you should look at who is doing this and from
what kind of family he comes from. you cannot make a general conclusion about all refugees. >> we have to talk about what happened in cologne on new year's eve. first of all, give me a short answer, when people come to germany, refugees and asylum-seekers, from the countries where you have your roots, what expectations can they have? what expectations can they justifiably have from germany and the germans? placehink they come to a where they can find security. when they find a better chance where their kids might go to school without the danger of being bombed from the air like what has happened in
live, and where they can their religious and cultural selves without being persecuted. forget about health insurance, the better quality of life, the freedom of movement through the german passport or travel duments. these things bring them to germany. behavethe freedom to wiin their rigious belie. see here a lot of -- >> safety, freedom, and security. .mployment, education
these are all structural things. what should asylum-seekers expect from the germans as people in their social interaction and cultural interaction? .> solidarity understanding that we are all diverse. look at singapore. it is one of the most diverse countries on earth when it comes to religion and customs and it is doing pretty well. there is a book in which the author claims one of the reasons why china will not catch up to the united states is because of lack of diversity. it is only one ethnicity. where zero brings ethnic groups and nationalities together. that is where germany could use as a huge opportunity. .> absolutely i am not sure that everybody here in germany is necessarily listening because according to a recent survey, two thirds of thatns said they believe
the number of asylum seekers in germany, the number of refugees is already too high. there are people who are calling for a ceiling, caps on the number of people coming to germany, and for borders to be closed, which is something that is happening elsewhere already. let's have a look. >> this is a border where there shoul't bene, offense separating austria pennsylvania. then attempt to reduce number of refugees, the frontiers have been strengthened. those who have no documents will no longer be allowed to enter the country. the austrian government has also set a limit on the number of people it will take an, nor more than 37,500 this yr. the numr will likely be reached by the summer. well more of europe closes borders? will germany follow? >> what do you say after what he
had just been telling me about diversity? >> they should not close their borders. >> it is what most germans want. >> political expediency is a different thing. politicians will just look at , gettingfive years back into office. there are people who can tell germany that by 2050, half of europe's population will have a refugee background. that will create a different dynamic. looking around europe, and the united kingdom, germany still lags behind when it comes to not diversityn, creating that could be a benefit for german society. closing the borders -- we always find a way to get into the country. [laughter] >> we have been quite productive.
you are using our capabilities and capacities. that is amazing. do you buy into this vision of diversity in present-day germany? to there's a german people are saying they would like to see the border closed. >> they should not close the borders, but with the conditions -- to gain this chance to profit for the german economy and to have this diversity, not just opening the door and inviting somebody to come in and you cannot offer him anything, that will be very heavy for you. chancellor merkel will pay .ighly if this is mark -- if this doesn't work. >> there are many germans and
politicians who are saying that the children who have already arrived should not be taught german because they will feel like this country is home, especially the fathers who have arrived should not be reunited with wives and children. that is a very different picture than what you are perjuring. -- portraying. >> that comes from the right wing. we need these children here in germany. a country which is not bringing as much children. i don't think it is very necessary to talk about closing the borders because as soon as it closes its borders, nobody is arriving more to germany. let's face reality. >> public opinion may be changing, but let's look at the -- you have to have people with thinking, we have
to do something about this. we cannot take this public opinion seriously. not domestically, but internationally. the kind of publicity that germany has got from what you have done, incredible. it is important. border, youose the have a domino effect. he will just transport the problems to other countries. people will suffer from this problem. they should tackle the problem inside the country, in iraq and syria and afghanistan rather to find solutions here. long-term,y for the not for these years. if we think that the german
society will need new blood in society, then the german counselors in the right direction. insisting about the integration of children. >> can i have a word on integration? you keep saying, language. doesn't matter to have pay taxes he. i don't speak german and i am doing well. adamantans are very when it comes to language. there are a lot of people who speak perfect german. there. from malaiz since new year's eve, there were scenes in cologne and elsewhere that led to literally hundreds of women here filing complaints with the police for cases of
sexual harassment and sexual assault. let's look at the reactions. : is home to a large community of immigrants from northern africa. the people here are horrified by the new year's eve attacks but they are also angry that they are being blamed as a group. >> if there is concrete evidence against us, it should be brought to court. do not accuse just muslims, accuse individuals. this meant tells us that a few days ago, three construction workers spit at him and called hi rist name that is the first time i have experienced something like this and it was a nice. appear.rn here and grew
i had nothing to do with what happened here on new year's eve. a group of students has gathered at the train station where the attacks to place. their families come from north africa and the young people want to send a signal, they are handing out flowers to passersby . a small gesture against the new fear and prejudice. >> what is it like being a man of iraqi origin in germany right now? it is not islamic, or arabic tradition that you attack a woman. >> if you read the german press, the sense is that there is a huge problem with muslim men. this is the responsibility of the media. generalize all muslims or arabs. they talk about moroccans.
they said it was algerians, and the algerians said it was tunisians. it was the bout individuals -- it was about individuals purity should not blame a group. groups that from my i am icontact th, they said, germany, they are expecting germany to react, to send back all of these people because they said these people understand this kind of procedures. >> we have seen the german government making its first move. we heard you say that the atmosphere in germany is not toxic after cologne. tell me more. in cologneeen there a couple of days after the new year's eve and i was -- in the arab neighborhood. i felt the fear they are feeling
now. they feel like they are potential victims -- that they are -- society is blaming them as a whole for that which happened at the new year's eve. and the other side, you have the came toociety which munich central station received all of these migrants with flowers and teddy bears and look what has happened. we have two groups of people , very fews say information or understanding of each other. disgusting, discussing events . what we lack right now is the lack of self reflection, the lack of soul-searching within our communities.
is no soul-searching, and that is disgusting. afghans here have to step up and say, what happened? who are the culprits? >> if they are not responsible for what happened. >> can i just -- >> we cannot say that germans are responsible for -- >> here is the music, you better tell me, quickly. [crosstalk] >> we have to stop. >> europe should tackle the problem itself. >> we will leave it there, thank you very much for joining us this week on quadriga. thank you and goodbye.