Skip to main content

tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  August 18, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

1:00 pm
money printing strategy with no capital requirements and perpetuation of unlimited speculation actually is. the stock market is nothing more than a voting mechanism for our prosperity. right now it is telling all of us that the speculation and rampant debt around the world is a direct barrier to that, and it does not believe that the american politicians at this point are even able to see the problem let alone solve it. because of all of this, our big story, not just today, but too many days, is mad as hell. we know the markets are showing a lack of confidence in our politicians. so, too, are you. for that matter, so am i. meanwhile, we all know that our politicians will not engage to solve a problem that has been sochled many times before. we have restored capital requirements and aligned interests on countless occasions with this exact problem where the banks are running wildly speculating for debt and opposed
1:01 pm
to investing and development. the only way, however, to even begin to solve any problem is to get the money out of our political system. as we all know, we asked jimmy williams, one of the top lobbyists in america to draft all of us an amendment that can begin a conversation about banning money from politics. we also know without the internet and 100 million people with that on their websites this will never happen. it's been attempted many times before. only to be swallowed up by a bought political system. the good thing for all of us is that failure has proven to be the single best way for human beings to learn. what can we learn to try to get corruption out of the political system? to set us up to succeed with this effort? democratic congressman john yarmouth serves in the budget committee and oversight committee heard the conversation about the amendment a couple days ago and was enthusiastic
1:02 pm
about the prospect of 100 million people on facebook with such an amendment overwhelming every political candidate in america during the presidential election of next year, which is our goal. tell us, congressman, teach us, what is it about past efforts that we can learn as we begin yet another effort to get the core problem solved, to ensure higher probability of success this time, because we learned from why we didn't succeed last time? >> i think that, dylan, first of all, thank for doing what you're doing. this is really important. i can't think of anything more important in this day and age than to get big money out of politics. it's failed two reasons. one, first of all, everybody's in the game. nobody's willing to stand out and say, come on. we need to do this. >> right. >> because everybody's playing that game. >> yeah. let's go one at a time. all big problems. i think everybody sees that. it's why we get so much hopelessness, feeling of disempowerment and a sense of
1:03 pm
cynicism about the entire political system. for me, the only way i can see to reconcile that is to use the internet -- this is a pipe dream without the internet, we all know it. with internet and a lot to pay money in politics to somebody like jimmy williams to draft an amendment that gets money out of politics and the internet, is that the wrong posture? in other words to try to take this away from the political process to the internet and the hundreds of millions of american whose know they're getting screwed by money and politics, do you think that that is a better way to address the first issue? >> it's the only way to do it. it will never happen internally unless the president of the united states made it his number one priority. i think the only way to do it, have a massive national grass roots effort to take the money out of politics. we'll never take it out ourselves. we live and die by it. unfortunately, because of it, we make all the wrong choices in public policy. >> it's almost as if -- and
1:04 pm
people are going to be offended, maybe, by this -- but it's almost as if all of the politicians in america are wearing a suicide vest that is money in politics and as a result, if the politician who's been strapped into the suicide vest threatens to disagree with his or her influencers, the influencers threaten to blow the bomb. and basically, you need -- we need 100 million americans to collectively remove the suicide vests from every politician in america so that they can stop being levered and controlled by these industries. is that a fair assessment? >> very fair. last year in midterm cycle, $4 billion spent on a few elections. almost $10 million per election. the oanly think that trumps tha is hundreds of millions of people. >> 100 million americans to do this as an amendment. a fair goal? >> i think that's absolutely fair, and that's has it's going to take. this is a system that has very,
1:05 pm
very strong deep roots, and the only thing that's going to uproot it is the people saying, we want our government to represent us. we want our government to make good choices that are based on fair analysis of every policy and every problem. you'll never get that with this type of money in politics. >> walk us through, again, more lessons from past failures. >> well, again, i think the other -- issue with past experiences is that everybody is basically saying from day one, well, you need two thirds of the congress. and we'll never get two-thirds. and they get a few co-sponsors, maybe, and they say, well, we'll never get two-thirds. we're not going to bring it to the floor. it's internal machinations that kept it from getting traction. never any traction to get it to ta floor where there is public discussion of the whole concept, we'll never again there. the other thing that's really
1:06 pm
important is we focused on vario aspects of the financial system. what about corporate money, pacs, this and that, not saying the fundamental issue is if politicians take money they are beholden to the donors of the money. that's what i think jimmy -- jimmy's idea, we had a conversation yesterday. >> right. >> it just to -- a fundamental problem. >> again, this is the aligned interests of every one of the 300 million americans. even the one whose are winning right now, i believe, are fearful, because they know that the way that they're winning is by rigging the game, which is apparently dangerous. so while the losers are irate, even the winners in this system, i think, are anxious, at the very best. some are actually very afraid. one of the things that i would add i don't know whether you and jimmy williams talked about it yesterday when you were discussing the early drafting, how important is it that anything that -- not only draws a crisp line across all money in politics, but also draws a crisp
1:07 pm
line around the revolving door so there's not payoffs coming out ask one thing to prevent the payoffs while coming in or while there, there's a whole other big batch of payoffs in the years following as we've seen from everybody at the sec to minerals in mining management, the list goes on. >> well, i agree. there's no question about that, but that's probably not an issue that can be dealt with in this context. maybe there's a way we can do it. the first issue is making sure we have a government that is free to make the right choices. we don't have a big margin for error, going forward, as to what choices we make as a country. who we tax, how we tax, how much we tax, how we spend. what we spend it on. we've got to make the right choices. again, as long as these huge numbers of money, billions of dollars, are spent inside the system to influence policy, the odds of our making the right choices, the critical choices, are remote. >> should we make a to-do list? >> yes. >> and based on what i feel i learned in this conversation from you, it is clear that
1:08 pm
absent 100 million on the internet that is the threshold for success with this? it has nothing to do with a politician doing anything. is that a fair assessment? >> i think that is a fair assessment. we've got make a vote on this constitutional amendment, have the same or greater impact than the no tax pledge that every republican signed. this has to be a basically -- a fatal vote. a fatal vote by the people of this country for every politician. >> and the presidential election would seem to about good time to do this, no? >> no better time than to do that? >> again, the political impact of this, the last thing that i really want to clarify, i think people -- people love -- the same way we watched with the election of barack obama and everybody was like, oh, now we've elect add guy who's with us, and now we're fine. and never goes back to, now we're done. the fact of the matter is, we're, all of us, as american, to be able to pass such an
1:09 pm
amendment that would not solve any of our problems. it would merely create an opportunity to begin to solve them. this would be a beginning, not an end. is that correct? >> exactly. one other thing you would do, dylan, free up a lot of time on the members of congress to focus on the problems of the american people. the average house member spends probably one-third of his or her time raising money. if the american people actually saw how much of their energy and time was focused on fund-raising as opposed to doing the public's business we wouldn't have any trouble getting the 100 million. >> help me do that. i can work on better educating people as to having gotten to know a few folks with jobs like yours the past few years. stunning to see how much of the time especially freshmen congressmen have to spend on a given day. like being a pledge at a fraternity. on the phone raising money. it's unsalt iinsulting. >> people are calling members,
1:10 pm
supporters all over the country. no reason for somebody in california to give me money resting louisville, kentucky unless they think i'll be a reliable vote. actually it pushes us aport, this whole process, much more than it brings us together. >> tell you what, congressman, myself and everybody else in this country are going to see what we can do to get 100 million signatures together. meantime, if you could help us better understand just how much of a time suck and priority re-alignment this is for everybody that should be dealing with everything from trade policy to taxes and bank policy, i think that would be tremendously beneficial. >> i'll make it my mission, dylan. >> all right. thank you, congressman. >> thank you. >> we have two americans out of 300 million right here, sir, and i think there are many more like us. a pleasure. coming up on the "d.r." show today, the president heading off to vacation along with nearly every single one of america's politicians. meanwhile -- the financial markets crater in
1:11 pm
the face of evidence that the financial bailout, it's not only not working but running out of steam. jobs are down. patents are down. and it all goes to a banking system more interested in making money than investing with the rest of us. that's an easy fix, if only our politicians weren't bought. plus -- this. new disney movie exploring the hidden world of real-life pirates with a man who spent a year with them. and caffeine fix. forget the fruity umbrella drinks. what new science says you should really have on your skin when you're at the beach. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them
1:12 pm
with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year. that's how we're helping set opportunity in motion. ♪ ♪ when you're resonsible for this much of the team, you need a car you can count on. ♪
1:13 pm
1:14 pm
1:15 pm
fairly or unfairly the president slammed by critics for taking a family vacation. 14 million americans out of work, congress out of town and the financial markets cratering in the face of evidence that the cover-up bailout schemes from both the western european banks and our own are not only not working but may be making matters worse. at this hour, the first family leaving for martha's vineyard. the president working on details of a jobs and deficit plan unclear as to whether that incluts restoring capital requirements to a banking system that makes more money right now lending -- excuse me, gambling and speculating than it does lending, based on the president's history, i doubt he will re-align that critically misaligned interest. either way, we'll see if he does anything to reverse the underlying problem, jot nuft capital requirements bought few others like tax code and trade
1:16 pm
policy. or whether this president will simply continue to medicate the symptoms like those who came before him. we all know what the problems are and know the politicians are medicating them. the president improving our economy is sat an all-time low. 26%. nothing compared to the disapproval of all of our congress people, republican, democrats alike. the overall congressional approval rating is at 13%. our mega panel, msnbc contributor "washington post" editorial writer jonathan capehart. susan del percio, and washingtonpost.com columnist matt miller. jean thien, you and i worked together 10, 15 years ago, a big hot shot columnist at bloomberg and i a rantding, raving madman on the other side of the room. one thing that was clear when you are in the financial services journalism, understand the financial services business is how distorting eliminating
1:17 pm
capital requirements, basically making it so the financial community can make money gambling without having to risk their own money is. give us a sense of how much more profitable it is to pursue a gambling strategy where you don't pay the losses and how that basically makes it, really takes away the incentive to invest? >> i think just answered your own question. if you can gamble and be guaranteed that you're not responsible for any of the losses, wouldn't you -- wouldn't you gamble? wouldn't you just keep on doing it? i think that, you know, this issue here, about changing the culture, changing the underlying structure of this system is something that's going to -- that's a project that will go beyond one year, beyond one election cycle. >> oh, yeah. at least a decade or two? >> right. and require first of all the american people demanding change
1:18 pm
and then demanding change through representatives that they send to congress and also to the white house who view that structural change as a priority. >> as a shared goal? >> right. a priority, and a shared goal. >> yes. >> and that doesn't mean that everybody here in washington doesn't share that goal. it's just a matter of, you know, safety in numbers. if you're the lone voice out there and you've got everybody else against you, it's kind of difficult to, you know, achieve those goals, but if more people come to washington with that shared goal, it would be possible in 10 to 15 years as you say. >> jonathan, how about when you have a two-year term and we're talking about decades to fix the problem and you're a congressional member. i said republican whose got elected past november should not come in thinking they were elect bawd people want the republican party in charge. they wanted the other guys out and we're in a dangerous cycle potentially of constantly kicking out people every two years.
1:19 pm
>> interesting thing, talk about misaligned interests for a special kind of banks, we have a complex series of tax trade banking problems that then pollute our health care and educational system and energy systems. they are a decade long adjustment that is very fragile, and must be done, but must be done like you would treat a cancer patient. not like a maniac with a knife. >> yes. >> the politicians don't have a completely misaligned interest, because they're on a two-year plan and we have a ten-year problem. matt, if you were to look the money in politics amendment that jimmy is currently drafting for everybody in america, and the need to generate the 100 million signatures we're going to have to generate by next august on the internet to do this, just how corrupting is that, the money, and just how much of an opportunity would be created to have more of a conversation like the one all of us are desperate
1:20 pm
to have if we're able to at least diminish that impact? >> well, it would be huge, dylan. for starters, it would boost the ratings of the "d.r. show" to triple "american idol"s. >> i don't need them to watch -- hang on. watching tv could be bad for your health. i don't need them to watch tv. i don't need anything. we all need to put this amendment on our, whatever your digital identity is and send it to every politician, whether i get run over a bus or not. >> yeah. no. and i was having fun, but i think -- i mean, the bank issue you describe is a perfect example of, i mean, it's the banks who have rushed in to defang what little teeth were put in the dodd frank reform, and there are thousands of lobbyists working all the regulatory agencies now to lower or diminish whatever capital requirements were being put in, ir link between employee levels of
1:21 pm
capital and outside levels of executive pay, because if the banks are paying themselves, the executives, based on you know, return on equity, that means the more you can lever yourself up with debt, the higher your return on equity when time, good, the bigger the bonus is -- >> which explains why we spend more than anybody in the world on health care, but get no health. spend more than anybody in the world on education with the exception of iceland but get very little learning. spend more than anybody in the world on education, but waste two-thirds of our energy, because the executives in chag of the banks that you're talking about who finance al of this get paid to create debt for health care, debt for education, debt for energy, debt for everything we do, because the debt pays better than solving the problem. is that right, matt? >> well, it's a piece of it, and it's a big cultural shift. remember, if you talk to executives who are retired in their 70s, let's say. people who are the corporate statesman of a generation or so ago, the idea that the sole way
1:22 pm
to make money is lever up firms to you know, kind of strip their assets, it used to be about building businesses that were solid, and finding ways to grow and expand markets overseas. there's so much financial engineering going on, as you know, and these things like these bank rules, while they're arcane and dull, are actually at the heart of what let's a lot of this happen, and the money and politics is at the heart of it. >> the reason, capital requirements suspended by the money in politics nexus is what creates the fundamental misalignment of interests between the banks and the investors and everybody else. has to be dealt with. >> and -- it used to be that in all of these banks, the net worth, especially investment banks, the net worth of the partners was on the line for any bets they took. once they went public and started using other people's money, that changed and a total misalignment in the way you talk about. >> the nice thing about the parer inship model, a traditional capitalist model.
1:23 pm
i make money if you make money. right now an ex-trangsist money. i borrow money, bleed you dry and leave you with the bill. we all know it and know our politicians are not dealing with it. the panel stays. next here, a conversation about the middle east. specifically syria. the u.s. ramping up rhetoric against the regime, but will it translate to anything other than talk and what does it mean for the vast majority of the poor people getting oppressed and murdered in that tiny middle eastern nation? as we were just talking about here -- we're all mad at hell, but we also know use tlag anger for anything other than pushing towards a solution is self-destructive. so what do we do about it? the e-mails continue to pour in. many with your simple fixes on positive solutions to get us on the right track, but more than anything, simply tell your friends that we're working on this amendment, because we need 100 million to get washington's attention by next august.
1:24 pm
dylanratigan.com, you'll find ideas. we welcome for feedback to dylanratigan.com, only used for this conversation and an amendment that is to come. also, of course, we're on twitter and, remember, posting that jimmy williams andme andment @madashell right after labor day. we take a break and we're back right after this. major medical. ...but it helps pay the doctors. pays the doctors, boyyy! [ quack ] oh yeah? what about your family? ♪ we added aflac, so we get cash! it's like our safety net... ♪ to help with the mortgage or whatever we need! so my family doesn't feel the pain too. ha! [ male announcer ] help protect your family at aflac.com. [ pigeons ] heyyy! hooo!!! [ male announcer ] help protect your family at aflac.com. over time, my lashes thinned. after 40, i didn't have enough lashes. i'd heard of latisse® but had questions. my doctor said... latisse® is the only fda approved prescription treatment
1:25 pm
for inadequate or not enough lashes. now with latisse® my lashes are longer, darker, with more than double the fullness in 16 weeks. if you are using or have used, prescription products for eye pressure problems, use latisse® under close doctor care. latisse® use may cause increased brown pigmentation of the colored part of the eye which is likely permanent. eyelid skin darkening may occur which may be reversible. if you experience eye problems or have eye surgery, consult your doctor. common side effects include itchy eyes and eye redness. i trust latisse® and i use it too. my lashes changed as i got older. now i use latisse®. more than double the fullness in 16 weeks. are your lashes thinning as you get older? why wait? ask your doctor about latisse® from allergan, a company with 60 years of eye care expertise. here's what you can the expect from regions. a bank that provides you with real business expertise. check. a professional optimization of your cash flow with a regions cashcor analysis.
1:26 pm
check. cash management solutions and the smart lending options you need to grow your business. check. plus, it all comes with award-winning service to help you achieve more balance. interested? let's talk. looking good. (bike bell)
1:27 pm
the transition to democracy in syria has become and it's time for assad to get out of the way. the people of syria deserve a government that respects their dignity, protects their rights and lives up to their aspirations. assad is standing in their way. >> if only if was just assad. hillary clinton with very compelling words. not just for the people of syria but every country in the world, and after five months of brutal
1:28 pm
attacks against the civilians there, the u.s. european union, france, germany and canada along with the u.k. demanding syrian president assad step down. unclear what their actual leverage to do this. president obama issues an executive order tore deeper zunkz sanctions against the government freezing assets in u.s. and targeting the nation's energy business. understand, we don't buy a lot of energy from syria. eliminating that. really, it doesn't mean much. however, if the president can persuade the european to participate in that, it could have more meaning, although it might just mean more people have less food under an oppressive regime in syria because of the sanctions. anyway, we have seen how successful these tactics have been in libya. moammar gadhafi attacked. and our specialist george lopez studied at notre dame's crawford institute for international peace studies and an expert on sanctions. what can we learn about failure and success with sanctions in the past when it comes to transferring power at the top as opposed to making those who are
1:29 pm
being oppressed more miserable than they already were, professor? >> well, as long as we had general trade sanctions like in iraq and yugoslavia, it's been more difficult for people on the ground. remember, cases like south africa and this one as well in syria, where the folks on the ground have said, please, bring on the sanctions. it's very important to have your external support. it's also the case that up until now with the petroleum sanctions today, these have been targeted sanctions on financial assets that the strength of the u.s. position, it seems to me today, is that these have reached much deeper into the government and the elite, and your question, when have they didn't successful? a dom natural dictator has never falling from sanctions. it's weren't of the policy tools. the exception in the second level. folks who are the ministers and some others, get them to change their mind. >> local there. susan del percio speaking. the question i have -- >> hi, susan.
1:30 pm
>> -- now we have sanctions in place. that's all very good, but it's just the european nations behind them. what we were told and the reason we need these to goes forward in libya, we also have the arab nations behind it, and that was kind of our strength. there is no arab nation supporting this. what do we have to do to either get them onboard or does it just become completely meaningless without the arab nations on board? >> a great question, because it speaks to the two dimensions. economic and political. what we'll see in the next few day, europeans come on on this petroleum embargo. so critical. it's more than 90% of the syrian supply. that's where the bite takes place. can you move the gulf council statement from this past weekend to a stronger one? jo kno i don't know but the white house pated f e waited for turkey to get onboard and would go further in dealing with this. we won't expect much from other
1:31 pm
states. tshgy's support is critical and said they've come to the end of their rope in turkey. that may carry weight in the region. >> what would you say -- it's a complicated situation, when secretary of state clinton included in her statement today something to the effect that, we know the syrian people don't want outside intervention. they want to determine their own future, and we respect in a. on the one hand i understand it. on the other hand if they're at odds with this brutal oppressor, can they free themselves without outside help? >> well, that's a good question. i think port part of what we'r testing in the next two to three weeks with sanctions, whether or not it will lead to sufficient defections in the middle ranks, whether or not it will constrain the amount of ammunition they have. whether or not the kind of bet the finances can take can lead the advisers to say to assad, we're now down to 20 days' worth of assets and in real trouble. his is a step-by-step dilemma.
1:32 pm
one that even externally matters in the sense that if the pledge that clinton gave really sparks from gulf council states, a recognition that this isn't a replication of libya. if there's some contact group put together by the security council and others to be an outside diplomatic voice, this step-by-step approach may give encouragement not only to the opposition but also give, again, a potential for some cracks in the regime. i also think we have to keep our eyes on where will libya be ten days from now? if there's a continued dramatic move of the rebels in libya, if gadhafi flees, that changes the way the elite whose support assad think a lot about what they're situation is. >> jonathan? >> mr. lopez in a perfect world, what should or could the united states do to help mr. assad along in his departure plan? >> well, that's a great question. i remember long ago someone
1:33 pm
wrote an article, there should be an elbow for dictatordictato. way for them to go to an island, depart gracefully. in a perfect world, none exists. at this stape, the questige, thn you find a way to change their minds it's either reprisal or death in the palace? we don't know enough to know if they're thinking in other terms. i do believe, this is where, again, tsurkey, lebanon, maybe iran will be critical. it's very, very important to start toi issue the if then statements from the state department and european actors. if mr. assad were to do the following the international community would be prepared for this. we're at the stage where we set up the demands and the structure of maximum coercion short of military force and wait for it to play out for a week or two, and i hope then the statements will help give them an out. >> is there a carrot that the
1:34 pm
international community could offer in that, if then, have your? >> it goes to the elites to say that those who decide to depart from the regime can have some of their personal assets unfrozen under certain kinds of conditions. it goes to the international community setting up a contact group that says that we would welcome leadership that would be part of a new transition. it goes to communications that would be conveyed to military commanders about the benefits of laying down your arms. i think that's where some of that would go. >> that whole second level. if you can persuade them, you've out in basically -- dissolved the power base that is underneath the dictator. wonderful analysis. >> and hopefully -- yeah. then you lessen the snipers on the roofs and reflegs ways that really puts it back in the people's hands. >> understood. listen, thank you for sharing time with us and teaching us a little something this afternoon,
1:35 pm
professor. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> absolutely. george lopez out of noert deem, peace studies at the institute there. just back from a ten-month term on the u.n. panel monitoring north korean sanctions. the man knows of what he speak. thank you. and thanks to the panel. have a great yrafternoon, guys. thanks. next here, a little bit of a break. not only in the show but the weekend's almost here. maybe you're going to hit the beach? don't forget the sunscreen and grab a latte. i'll explain, after this.
1:36 pm
a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.
1:37 pm
1:38 pm
for all of coffee addicts out there like me, according to a new stud, caffeine may protec
1:39 pm
inside the hidden world of modern day pirates. how the economics and extraction of an african nation may be behind the hijackers of the high seas. [ male announcer ] butter. love the taste, but want to cut back on fat?
1:40 pm
try smart balance buttery spread. it's heart-healthier than butter. with omega-3s. 64% less saturated fat. and clinically proven to help support healthy cholesterol. ♪ put a little love in your heart ♪ but afraid you can't afford it? well, look how much insurance many people can get through selectquote for less than a dollar a day. selectquote found, rich, 37, a $500,000 policy for under $18 a month. even though dave, 43, takes meds to control his blood pressure, selectquote got him a $500,000 policy for under $28 a month. ellen, 47, got a $250,000 policy for under $20 a month. all it takes is a phone call. your personal selectquote agent will answer all your questions ... and impartially shop the
1:41 pm
highly rated term life companies selectquote represents for your best rates. give your family the security it needs at a price you can afford. call this number or go to selectquote dot com. selectquote. we shop. you save. show me the carfax. oh yeah, can you show me the carfax? sunglass holder... for sunglasses. just show me the carfax. before you buy a used car, get a carfax vehicle history report. see accidents and service reported to carfax and a price based on the car's history. ask your dealer or go to carfax.com. just say, show me the carfax.
1:42 pm
it's pro-cool technology releases armies of snowmen masseuse, who cuddle up with your soreness and give out polar bear hugs. technology. [ male announcer ] new bengay cold therapy. the same technology used by physical therapists.
1:43 pm
go to bengay.com for a 5-dollar coupon. well, forget jack sparrow swashbuckling across the seven seas. the man you see there, our next guest, infiltrated somali havens following, studies real life pirates and published a book breaking down their business bug wait. joining us, "the pirates of somalia." jay, has will we all learn when we read your book? what do you believe the most important thing somebody like myself needs to know or others in this country we probably don't? >> one of the most important thing, it comes under the myth busting chapter of the book you mentioned, is that the pirates are very much on their own, and they're very much businesses
1:44 pm
interested in money, and i think one of the most dangerous early rumors that really came out of this in 2008 when pirates really hit the international news was that pirates were linked strongly with somalia, and a lot of people claimed for various reasons to do with their own agendas and the real and dangerodanger o consequences, ransom payments forbidden, which put a lot of the lives of hostages at risk. i think hopefully my book attacks some of that, some of those allegations and helps clear that up. >> let's talk about the fact that these are not pirates. these are pirates from somalia, which means they are children who grew up in an african nation and found themselves doing what we're talking about, and i want to share with everybody, a couple of statistics. everybody knows somalia on some level as a distressed far away place they don't think about
1:45 pm
much, and they know the pirates have a sort of glamour reputation, but the fact of the matter is, in somalia, 18% of the people that are in that country die before the age of 5. 3.7 million people, which, by the way, is more than half of the population, are under daily threat from lack of food. 1 million and a quarter children in urgent need of life-saving care, meaning their life is in jeopardy. in fact, in 2011, somalia ranked dead last out of 137 countries in an index prepared by an organization called international living. my point is, if you are born as a young boy or girl to that country, the chance of anything other than something very bad -- being alive after 5, you're 4 out of 5 to do that. how much of the nasty nature of
1:46 pm
what's going on on the ground there maect what we'affect what on the water? >> well, i think i agree completely that somalia is a country in dire need especially now with the famine going on in the south and generally one of the mostmost neglected countrie the world, piracy and things that affect people outside the country, but in terms of piracy itself, i think there's very little evidence there's a drebt link between poverty and piracy. and i say this, because, well, the -- somalis have lived in crippling poverty since the collapse of the central state in 1981, yet it took 17 years for pirs toy beco piracy to become a problem in somalia. you don't see relatively poor areas producing more pirates. in the south, for example, really, it's much, much worse than the north, where i was, and where piracy really originated
1:47 pm
from. you don't see -- you see very little to no pirates operating out of the south. and -- >> so -- so what do you attribute it to? >> to geography. why the north was so -- was so, such a crucial epicenter, because if you see footland, north of the country, it's in the northeast in a country just to the intersection of the indian ocean and gulf of aden. one of the biggest shipping lanes in the world. two, there is a government there. a lot of people don't know that there are actual many different functioning governments with somalia itself. in footland, that government, basically it ran out of money in 2008. and stopped paying its security forces and, really, it's ability to control its coast completely collapsed. so you had basically a situation where thing was not at chaotic as in the south, warlords, islamics, those who make running a business very difficult. at the same time, the government had no money to pay security
1:48 pm
forces. couldn't do anything. that's why you had -- >> yeah, okay. i'm sorry. i didn't mean to interrupt. >> that's why it exploded at that specific juncture as in 2008, versus a year in -- >> right. so would it be fair -- fair to say that a necessary pre-condition for this type of activity, or exasperating precondition may be the poverty, but it is only then with access opportunity and safe operating scheme that that -- there's lots of poor countries, as your point is, lots of poor countries and they don't have any pirates. your point, it's not just poverty. poverty may be a pre-condition but it takes more than that to end up where we are. is that a fair interpretation? >> yeah. absolutely. and, clearly -- yeah. if people weren't as -- disadvantaged as in somalia, i don't think there would be nearly -- piracy wouldn't nearly
1:49 pm
be as big a problem. at the same time, if you took the population of, say, a state in the united states, transplanted it into somalia and the same conditions where criminality wasn't punished, some would turn into being criminals, right? and this is what's happened in somalia. but obviously, partly and underlying factor but not direct -- i don't call it a direct -- >> poverty doesn't create pirates. poverty may about necessary, or enhancing pre-condition with other factors you're describing that result in pirates, is probably the best understanding. right? >> sure, yes. >> one other thing that struck me in reading about this, i'm interested to know whether you saw anything about it, was that in response to the piracy problem, that private financial institutions and insurance companies that pay the ransoms have started hiring their own private armies to hunt the pirates. have you seen anything about this? >> yeah. well, it's happened a lot more recently where companies have turned to security teams
1:50 pm
onboard, and actually there's been a couple of cases in the news lately where these teams have actually repelled pirates. there are problems. the cost makes it impractical for most ship owners traveling through that area to actually have armed security teams onboard. even a poorly trained team costs something in the range of $10,000 a day. it takes three to five days to get through, and global shipping means such a cutthroat, really, a cutthroat industry, most ship owners don't have enough in their budgets to pay for that. two, you run the risk of escalating an incident. what you see with pirates is that when the international forces have thrown one strategy at them, they've adapted very well. in one crew, for example, started hiding in safe areas in the ship and pirates responded actually bringing plastic explosives onboard. i fear that you just risked escalating the situation, and i
1:51 pm
spoke to an insurer in london, which underwrites most of the -- >> these guys, these guys don't have to pay the ransom? >> sorry? >> these guys are the ones that pay the ransom? lloyds? >> yes, right. they -- well, they're the underwriters, but the specific insurer, well, pay the ransom. >> i get it. >> what they told me was that actually hiring security can increase your premium, because so many sketchy security companies popping you all over the gulf of aden. >> you increase your risk spending money on security. kind of funny. >> in some cases, yeah. >> kind of like too big to fail except much higher stakes. amazing reporting. congratulations on not only the courage to do the journalism, but the discipline to publish a book about it when were you done. really impressive. thank you, jay. >> thank you very much. >> there's the book. we'll take a break. "hardball" is coming up. the president planning a big
1:52 pm
postlabor day speech. chris matthews on has he should say. i would sap there's nothing the man can say. it's time for him to do something, but first a visit with our friend. he reminds all of us how to remember the good life, or the good in-life, amid the economic crisis. talk about government. you name it. the list is plenty long. he'll help us still enjoy our weekend. nice to see you. ld me calcium is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal.
1:53 pm
[ announcer ]icient absorption who could resist the call... of america's number-one puppy food brand? with dha and essential nutrients also found in mother's milk. purina puppy chow. [ tires squeal ] an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money to buy a car that's one model-year newer with 15,000 fewer miles on it. there's no other auto insurance product like it.
1:54 pm
better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual. it's a better policy that gets you a better car. call... or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy?
1:55 pm
even for those lucky enough to have a job right now, going to work and the pressure of providing for families, an economy extracted by banks,
1:56 pm
suffering a trade extraction, rigged tax code, you saw what i did. i lost my temper last week. our next guest is the here to offer tips on how all of us can prevent our work, life and our frustrations with an openly corrupt and bautd government from bleeding into our relationships with our friends and our family. and back with us today, noah katz, clinical director, a large addiction treatment facility here in new york. i certainly strug will this and know many others have as well. your thoughts how people can digest the level of toxicity that is obviously in the unfairness answeunfair ness and corruption going around us and not affect themselves and their family? >> first of all, you may clear what was evident. it's hard not to be mad as hell in this climate. you know? with our, with the price increases and everything that's going on in the stock market, with the necessities of life increasing, the amount of money
1:57 pm
you have to spend on education, on insurance, on food, on gas, and with the average american not earning anymore money to compensate for that, how would we all be not mad as hell. the problem when ydon't channel that sdoo something -- >> the amendment? >> even if it's not what you're talking about. when it festers inside it becomes depression. eats up on you. worse than that, you come home, lash out with all the rage, lash out at your partner and take it out on them. that doesn't solve the work problems but create as tsunami at home, and it's counterproductive. >> everybody gets that. i'd be interested to know what your advice would be to create the boundaries between the digestion of all the toxic information that you're either
1:58 pm
doing an energy conversion so the rage is going from rage to production, to the solution, or creating enough boundaries in a way that is sheltie so you're not bringing it into that world? >> i don't think everyone can lead a campaign. some people have to deal with the problems they have at work and learn how to be calm at home. my advice is very practical solutions that sound almost basic. exercise. you know? yoga. things that balance you so you're calm before you get home. therapy. >> my stretching is limited these days. i'll have to work on that. >> therapy. cognitive behavioral therapy they works on challenging thinking patterns. >> why is that so important? >> because we often have irrational thinking pattern. i got a note from somebody, e-mail, the volatility any this market is killing me so i'm laving out at my wife. i had to write him back. that's a hyperbole. you have a job. it is not killing you. you are quite alive and so much
1:59 pm
luckier than a huge percentage of people that don't have a job. so slow down the rhetoric, buddy. okay? you don't have the most important job. >> give yourself this speech. >> yeah, give yourself this speech, but have a little respect for your wife who has her own high lives and low lives during the day, and jumpt because you work in what our society deems, quote/unquote, important job, doesn't mean she has just as many stressors as you do, and show her a little respect. >> i feel like you are channeling the rational content of every parent in america. and talking to all of us like a bunch of 4-year-olds. i welcome it and appreciate it. >> i don't think a 34-year-old man without children needs parenting. >> you're into something and it's working. i appreciate that. thank you. good work, noah. >> thank you. i am dylan ratigan. "hardball's" up right now. party crash. let's play "hardball."

117 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on