tv News Nation MSNBC October 3, 2011 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
should be found not guilty. her codefendant said also more measured and more somber, but amanda was a good woman and had a nice sweet relationship and nothing evil or sinister about it as the prosecution consended. it was a very convincing summation, but keep in mind she gave a similar performance on the first trial. a lawyer who is observing this trial said afterwards she was very convince and she is innocent or deserves a ticket. it will be more than just -- just the jury that will decide her fate before this court. we are expecting them back within -- maybe an hour or hour and a half. it's extraordinary. we are an hour and a half or two hours from now. this place is filling up with people. to give you a good idea of just how great the interest is in the trial and especially in the out
come, this has been going on for four years. amanda knox say celebrity, sort of. perhaps for all the wrong reason, but everyone in this country knows her and many around the world as the all american girl with good looks who is accused by the prosecution of carrying out a very brutal murder and sexual assault. we are expecting that verdict here in the courthouse from the six jurors and the judge perhaps in the next few hours. >> let's talk about you mentioned the brutality of this and the media hype, if you will surrounding it. that was referred to by meredith kercher's sister, stephanie. the family spoke out as well. let me play what the victim's family had to say. >> as long as they decide to have the information valuable to them and they go looking to
discussing the media hype, it will just be found whichever way that may be. will r we will have to deal with that. >> keith, that is again stephanie kercher, meredith's sister. what is at the heart of the defense. what is the best case that amanda knox's attorneys have made at this point that would secure her freedom? >> no doubt the dna evidence used to convict her in the first trial. they based almost their entire case on this. the other evidence is circumstantial and doesn't lead to murder. the fact that this judge and trial appointed an independent scientific team to examine the dna, their results were damaging. they called them sloppy and said a lot of the dna was mishandled and in the end said the most
crucial evidence used to convict fox and her codefendant was unreliable. you have the basic evidence undermined by this panel and then you fall back on the motive. they failed to come up with a good motive and backing it up with any facts. it's been going on and off for four years. this particular appeal trial it ten months long. i must say talking to court observers and lawyers involved in the case, they all say it's a toss up. they don't know which way the verdict will go. >> thank you very much. joining me now, defense attorney and former prosecutor karen desoto. thanks for coming on on with us. the best possible evidence that the defense was able to bring up is the dna. it matched the man who was behind bars. he said she innocent. all of this as well. what do you make of what's
happening there. >> it's fascinating. the break in the case, there is so much speculation and so much fanfare around the family. >> that are doesn't matter to the jury and the judge. >> it shouldn't, but unfortunately it does. after this appeals case and understand that this is a whole new trial. this appeal is like having a new trial. the interesting part is you have two judges and six lay people. this is who empanelled the appellate. the independent dna evidence is there is nothing now linking her if in fact they are going to accept the dna results on the the knife and the bra clasp. that is what was linking her to the murder. now if those are removed, there is nothing linking her to the murder. >> you covered a ton of high profile cases. why has this one drawn so much attention?
is it because this attractive american girl accused of an unimaginable crime? >> kind of like the perfect storm. that anti-american sentiment in italy. he was a young very pretty vibrant young lady. this was a brutal murder in a place that there not murders. over in italy, defamation is a crime. everyone got wrapped up. this was a worldwide case. everyone wanted to see the pretty young american and how she resorted to murder. it's sensational. >> we will see what's happening again. we are on stand by and could hear the decision within this hour. we have another breaking news story we are following. take a look at this massive fire burning right now at a chemical plant near ft. worth, texas.
we are on the way to the scene in waxahatchee, texas. we were watching this video come in live and we are still seeing explosions. the black smoke as far as the eye can see. what are you hearing there? >> you can see the smoke from about 50 miles away. we were at the bush library today where former president bush was at a topping out ceremony of his library and we could see the smoke from there. it is 40 miles to the south at a town called waxahatchee. it's the chemical plant that makes fertilizers and coating compounds and a number of products over three different plants here in town. we believe this is the that makes agricultural products, fertilizers and powder and liquid. this has been a massive fire, every fire truck has been on the scene here. including hazmat crews from the
dallas area. initially when the trucks arrived, fiery liquid came poring out of one of the buildings and the firefighters had to retreat. they couldn't get their fire truck out in time. one of the largest and newest fire trucks here has been burned up by the fire that has been consumed just about all of the one plant and numerous tanks and threatening a nearby rail yard with paint cars there. the firefighters there are spraying down water. >> have all the workers been accounted for? what about the workers in there. >> the spokesman said all the workers got out safely. they had a training program just last week or so and they go through the emergency drills at the time. everyone knew what to do. nearby schools were evacuated. elementary and navarro community college. everyone here is safe. >> thank you, charles. live near waxahatchee where
incredible video is coming in at this plant. now to decision 2012. you can set your clock. we are told in the next 48 hours, we will know if chris christie found it in 4s heart to run for president. he is said to be reconsidering his position on running and could make the announcement on wednesday despite saying he didn't want the job in his own unique style. >> you have to believe in your heart that you are ready to walk into the oval office and lead the nation. i don't feel like i'm ready. >> i don't feel ready. >> i am not ready to be president. >> i do not have the desire to do it nor do i think i'm ready. >> i'm 100% certain i am not going to run. >> i have to commit suicide to convince people i'm not running. >> he is in talks to secure enough money this late in the game. john mccain had this warn for example governor christie. >> if governor christie decides
to run, i wish him luck and i think that there is a bit of a caution and the water may not be as warm as you think. >> talk show host who is an msnbc contributor. you are ready to launch in on this scene. 48 hours. we will know what's going on. what is your bet? >> well, come on. i think in the end he doesn't get in. if you ever pushing me on an answer, but he better make the decisions in a hurry. he will exhaust all the good well out there. all the folks clamoring for him to get in. he is not what some of them hope him to be. chris christie is far more moderate on a number of issues than the conservatives want him. >> he brought up the issue of
immigration where he said it was not illegal. you have the gun control and patrick of massachusetts brought up on "meet the press" that new jersey has a higher unemployment rate than the national average in new jersey. 9.4. he doesn't have that option to run on jobs like governor perry of texas. >> right. senator mccain's metaphor was in the swimming pool. the grass is always greener on the other side. they would energize the race and make it more interesting. he could be formidable as a general election candidate, but embracing the notion of climate change that would make him endearing to moderates and independents in the fall. that will be a problem. >> you spoke with the president and we know you have to want this. you cannot be persuaded. how does chris christie explain that suicide line and other thing fist he has a grand role out saying he's in?
>> i think the line will be one that the situation in the country relative to the economy is so dire that he feels the calling of this nation. it will be something along those lines. whether people are accepting of it is a different story. a more open question. >> we will see what happens, but a lot of people agree with you. he probably won't run. we will see. we all have opinions. thank you, michael. in about 30 minutes, perry's problems. governor perry taking heat over a racial epitaph. what about comments regarding sending troops into mexico. the dallas morning news's wayne slater will join us coming up. >> the whole world's watching! >> the protests are spreading around our nation. eight major cities seeing similar protests. we will look at what's happening. plus --
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the wave continues to spread. at least eight major cities are involved or others are expected to join later this week along with thousands of union member who is reportedly going to head to washington on wednesday. the epicenter of this up rising you might call it, 700 people arrested there this weekend. assess the tone for what you are seeing today. >> reporter: they are back at it. demonstrators marched earlier to wall street using symbolic gestures dressed in suits with face paint on. sort of a zombie look. protesting what they call a social injustice and protesting against the big corporations and obviously wall street. back here it's just getting started. this is the base camp here. liberty plaza where this has been taking shape over the last few weeks. several hundred people and growing. they have rallies and they have
meetings set up here. what exactly do the protesters want? they say they just want to be heard for one out here, voicing many different opinions about what they feel is wrong with their democracy and country and banks. they say say also want change and they are developing demands. they are grabbing the attention from major unions that are expected to get behind them later this week at a big rally that is planned mid-reaction here. a lot of the members could turn out in big numbers. as you mentioned earlier this weekend, there was 700 arrests as protesters filled out from the pedestrian walkway out to the roadway. those arrests seemed to only embolden the protesters and they are here for the long haul. as they are getting more resources and backing for more of these established institutions, they might have the resources they need to carry on.
>> michelle franzen live on wall street. thanks, michelle. justin elliott joins me. he was down reporting on the protest over the weekend. what did you see? >> one of the most interesting things we saw was the informal meetings discussing the question that the reporter just mentioned. what is the goal of it? there is an active debate. some say the goal is is just to continue growing. some people are saying let's settle on one message. it's about economic injustice. >> so interesting that they don't have a true goal, but this has been going on since september 17th and even after a stated goal and leader, they are attracting more and more people down there. it's spreading in boston, chicago, l.a. and several others. what does it say? >> there is a strain within the
movement about whether there should be goals or what they should do. one thing is if you name a specific demand right now, they can get pigeon holed or dismissed easily. that strategy of not naming a goal seems to be working. it is growing at an amazing rate. the solidarity movements popping up in cities all over the country. the protest on saturday had at least a couple thousand people. the unions are coming out and clearly they have caught on to something that caught people's imagination. >> i top the make a stretch here. it was near michael bloomberg who referred to egypt and the young people rising up there. this is not the same case and dealing with the issues that they were dealing with. none the less, we see a lot of young people down there. >> sure. i think the hard core of the movement and the people sleeping every night and have been for over two weeks in the park near wall street are mostly young
people. it's certainly not young people. i talked to a 71-year-old man from the bronx who came down and very supportive about the goals. they are taking inspiration from what happened in the arab world and printed a newspaper the other day called the occupied "wall street journal" who had features about what was going on and what happened in wisconsin. they are definitely putting themselves in that lineage. >> thank you very much. we will see what happens as the crowd will probably get huge over the next few days and we will hope to have all of that. appreciate it. coming up, we will talk with this man. he is supporting the wall street protesters urging them to give power to the people and take the money out of washington. he will join us in a minute and breaking news out of pe rusia, italy where the family of amanda knox and her supporters indicate that we will hear decisions from the court at 3:30 eastern time.
what does it sound like? >> her family had to save and borrow to avoid the $30,000 surgical implant. i am joined by nancy snyderman. >> it's a great video. >> it's hard to watch that because you are so happy for her and you wish the same for other people with her condition. now more people will explore it. >> she has a rare condition where the inner ear, the area where the nerve goes to the brain is not working quite right. the outside of the ear and the middle ear is working marvelously. this is a new implantable hearing device. it's like a microprocessor that stimulates the eardrums and starts the energy and it is sent back to the computer that is implanted by the ear.
you can hear the voices in her head. she was able to hear enough to learn speech. she learned speech very well. shoo is still a lip reader. i noticed that this morning when i talked to her. now for the first time, sound is translated accurately and left distortion into her brain. >> i said it as the script indicated $30,000 her family had to save and borrow. why wouldn't it be covered? >> it's fda approved and really new. a lot of insurance companies balk at the price tag saying can't conventional hearing aided as be just as good? there is a lot of humming and people don't like them. this is the wave of the future. there will be pressure on
insurance companies to cover it. >> you you had an opportunity to talk with her and these are the things that give us hope in medicine in the future. >> when i saw it on you tube, i was skeptical. the doctor is really well trained and university of michigan and now at the university of oklahoma. the science makes sense and she is the perfect kind of person. it's not going to work for everybody. if you have a certain nerve deafness and hearing aids are not doing the trick for young kids, this allows people to get better speech and hearing. this will help a lot of children with normal speech development. he is very cool. >> seeps like a wonderful woman. they couldn't pick a better spokesperson. >> thank you, tamron. >> occur rick perry campaign for president as his family's hunting cam will join me live.
. >> this is the caravan escorting amanda knox, the american convicted of murder to the court. in about an hour, the family and amanda of course will learn her fate. let's go to nbc's lester holt. he joins me now. we heard so much about the scene and the chaos of the interest in the story. this video speaks volumes to what's happening there. >> reporter: i can't see what you are looking at, but the prison vance just came by presumably carry amanda knox on the way to the courthouse a few blocks from there. the family told us they have
been told to be in court 9:30, that would be 3:30 eastern time. we would expect an announcement after that. the court told us we would not hear anything before 8:00 pardon me and it is 8:30 here. this is not a matter of guilt or not guilty type thing. the court will decide to either confirm or reform. confirm means if we hear that the murder charge has been confirmed, they are saying the original conviction stands. the original sentence will stand. they can reform the charges. there were five against amanda knox. six. they can reform them from throwing them out or say we will reduce that sentence and change the amount of time. either more or less. the prosecution has appealed in this case too. as we watch the verdict that would come at least an hour or
more at this point, it will be in italian, but the words to listen for is confirma meaning they confirmed the charges or reforma which means they will be changing some portion of the sentence or charge and we will have to wait and listen. we'll have translators here to tell you more about it. there is great expectation and a crowd outside the court house. all day long the family has been here and they have been told to be in court 9:30 and 3:30 eastern time for proceedings ta to start after that. the word is that the court has apparently reached the decision. six jurors and two judges who went behind closed doors at 10:45. amanda knox had the last word. she addressed the court and proclaimed her innocence and friendship with meredith kercher, the victim. she said she is not a killer and wants to go home. she wants her life again.
her boyfriend had a chance to address the court with a similar theme. talking about the suffering he had in prison in a two by three meter cell. he mentioned the family of amanda knox and what they have been through having to travel thousands of miles to get here and be and stand by their daughter. at point i saw one of the jurors who apparently was moved to tears. several of them had their faces in their hands as they watched intently these two young people plea to get back to their lives. it was a short session this morning. one hour before the deliberations began. we have all been waiting here anxiously and two prison vans passed by presumably carrying the pichb risoners. >> the obama administration is asking to weigh in on whether the law is constitutional. andrea mitchell spoke with
steven brier a short time ago about the difficulties of his job. >> the job is a job that calls for a weighing of values and calls often for an application of values that don't change much since it is 18th century. a, plying those to a world that does change. will change. every minute you know george washington did not know about the internet. we have to apply the first amendment to it. >> other cases they have is from immigration to affirmative action and police surveillance. pete williams joins me now. did you know george washington did not know there was an internet? i thought that was a great interview and great perspective. you have these important cases that the court could make decisions on. >> no better example on what will be the dominant case if they decide to take it up. the founders had explicit ideas of what powers they should have
to regulate commerce. the supreme court will have to decide what that means. two appeals courts ruled different ways on this. the question is whether requiring virtually all americans to buy health insurance is unconstitutional. does that go beyond congress's power? one said yes and the other said no. both sides in the legal battles are hoping the supreme court will take this case and if it does, the decision would come down in late june which is just as the presidential campaign is heating up. some other cases whether police need a search warrant and another constitutional question to put a gps transmit or the car. they say there is no privacy interest in driving on the public streets and these devices give such a complete picture sending a person's location every 10 seconds, 24 hours a day for in some cases more than a month. that's far beyond what surveillance would be able to
give them. does a person and a jail strip search everyone that comes in joe matter how minor the offense? they say they have to be able to keep contraband out. defense lawyers say that goes too far and another involves our medium television and especially in the so-called family hours that are too vague, especially in a change when on cable channels. rick perry and his team are in major spin control mode. the campaign calls a "washington post" report incorrect and they call it inconsistent and claiming a racial slur was displayed outside a hunting camp that perry's family used. perry maintains the name inward head was painted over herman cain and blasted perry over the story on sunday. the republican presidential candidate, the only african-american candidate had this explanation.
>> the word out of iraq. i don't care about that word. they painted over it. end of story. i think it has a way. i accept governor perry's response on that. >> meanwhile, the campaign is working to spin a comment he made that the u.s. military may be needed in mexico to fight the drug war. senior political writer for the dallas morning news. he is of course the author of bush's brain. it's a pleasure to have you on and you have insight on the governor of texas. let's start off with the name of this hant or hunting ground. this is making national news. they said they never heard of the story. what do you know about this rant? >> i haven't heard of it either. i know that kind of name is a part of the old south. this is they acknowledge that the name is so the rock. in the lead in, they coveted
over quickly after they began to lease the property. other people have a different recollection in the "washington post" story. the timing is inconsistent. fundamentally what you have is, is rick perry a racist. does he have a history of racial discrimination and insensitivity. the number of friends and people who were associates and democrats that worked against him and disagreed on a myriad of issues and by and large people say that's one part of rick perry they don't see. >> i think you can make the conclusion that he is not a racist, but if you are willing to pass that word every day and it doesn't make your skin crawl. you may not be a racist, but you might be something else. >> it's awful. it goes to something called maligned neglect. we are in the south so often, people have taken words like this and my grandfather's
generation. they don't think anything about it. horribly racist, inappropriate words and phrases that never should be accepted. the question in this case is, how long did rick perry go buy that sign without having to paint it over. his position is we painted it quickly and other people are offered different things. >> there is a difference i would have to say when your grandfather was not the governor of the state who represents all people. you may have that old south culture, but when you represent everyone, you must do that. >> absolutely. no question about that. there new attitudes and anyone who has any attitude like that has no place. >> real quick i have to get out comment about troops in mexico. the same candidate who said we can't have the united states policing and have our troops be sent throughout the country, what do we make of the mexico
comment? >> i will make a observation. rick perhe a problem with immigration. he got tough on gragz and this is the way to do it. while the idea of even raising the idea of sending troops into mexico may not be popular or well received in many parts of the tea party republican primary voter constituencies in south carolina and florida, i think they will accept it as a strong statement about immigration. >> always a pleasure having you on. you are the best when covering governor perry and we enjoy having you on. thanks, wayne. >> tonight on "hardball," chris matthews takes a closer look and a special edition of his msnbc show. the debate is what it's called at 7:00 p.m. eastern. now to developing news in the trial of michael jackson's doctor. a live look at the l.a. courtroom where a representative
from sprint is testifying about a cell phone record. moments ago we heard from a technician from at&t testifying about conrad murray's calls the day michael jackson died. earlier today, the emergency room doctor who allowed the paramedics to pronounce him dead said murray never mentioned he gave michael jackson propofol. she was grilled over the conversation she had with murray while she was trying to revive the star. >> i was trying to find the precise question and the precise answer. you are not capable of doing that. >> i am not capable two years later giving the precise number of questions i asked at the time and my answers, no. >> what do we make of the phone calls here? >> this may be a little bit drier than the other testimony that we heard looking at cell phone roars, but here's why it's
important. it goes to the prosecution's timeline. that will be key. not just who did dr. conrad murray call before he ordered someone to call 911, but the prosecution also claims that he was on the phone with a girlfriend during the time that he noticed michael jackson wasn't breathing. that was very important in their opening statements, saying he was on the phone with her and she noticed that he stopped talking to her. she heard a commotion. that would set the time of when dr. murray noticed something was wrong with michael jackson. we expect to hear from her at some point later this week if the prosecution keeps with the order they went in the preliminary. two other girlfriends of doctor murray called on that day also scheduled to testify. this is all setting up for their testimony and trying to establish some type of timeline
with these cell phone records. >> thank you very much for the latest from there. we also have this breaking news. we have been following this. these are live pictures from inside the courtroom where they are preparing for amanda knox and the decision in her case. whether the judge and a panel jury will decide to keep her behind bars in perusia, italy or if the american convicted of murdering her roommate will be allowed to return home. her family is there and she has been transported from prison and is expected inside that courtroom. the decision will be read at 3:30 eastern time. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] drinking a smoothie with no vegetable nutrition? ♪ [ gong ] strawberry banana! [ male announcer ] for a smoothie with real fruit plus veggie nutrition new v8 v-fusion smoothie. could've had a v8. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer.
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they gathered steam and move willing beyond manhattan. among the cities where we see profests now. boston, chicago, as well as los angeles. joining me now by phone is media and music executive russell simmons. thank you for joining us. >> happy to be here. >> why do you believe this movement is spreading now? >> i think people are tired of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. the kind of legislation that supported the rich and the loopholes and the tax breaks and the corporate welfare and they are attacks wall street that runs the country and the people don't. the people want the power back in their hands. they want the politicians to work for them and not the money. we are waiting to see what will
emerge as the nominee. why the timing now? >> there is the jobs bill. removing the tax breaks, there is a lot of dialogue about the condition of people and about the shifts. i think the under served community are feeling the wait more now than ever. his position has not changed. i think that now is as good of a time as any. just about a lot of progressions are coming. not all these young people. people like john mccain stopped by with the campaign finance. they start getting in front of that. they start allowing the people and we understand why. when the media said we don't know why they protested, it's disingenuine. >> what does it mean to you personally. >> the rich are getting richer and the way they are suffering
now. we know why they are protesting. >> here you are. you are wealthy and self-made. successful man in america. why does this protest mean something to you here. >> i think i made the example on msnbc that i have a big check and i gave away from my company and they paid more taxes than me. i think it's unrealm and think we have to change that. right now when all the social services are being threatened, they are put on and i shouldn't say the riches. it's institutional. all the corporations are playing by rules. i don't blame them. the rules have to change. the power has to come back to the people. i feel that it's unfair right now and our country needs a more perfect union. this kind of revolt by the people, as big as it's going to get and i can smell it and i know this is a big one and i
think that america has to wake up and listen and it's at the least will provide a counter balance to the tea party and the conservatives are to go doing. they keep disempowering people. we have to do something. >> we greatly appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. >> breaking news. amanda knox verdict to be read at 3:30. these are live pictures outside the courthouse where they gathegather as well as many others. inside the courtroom as well. we'll be right back with more.
joining me now in perusia. keith, we know how this has been playing out in the media. on the internet. i am curious about the small incidence in the city. are people weighing in on if they think she should be set free or not? >> they are. you have like everywhere else, people decided between amanda knox's innocence who those who say she is guilty. that sums up the case that now as we wait for the verdict, court observers and lawyers intimately involved in the case say it could go either way. i heard nobody who spent a lot of time in the courtroom say that they are adamantly convinced it will go one way or the other. for sure, we have five separate changes on knox, including slander and falsifying a break in and it's possible that she will be found not guilty on murder and sexual assault, but could be convicted of say
perhaps slander. time served and sent home. a lot of scenarios is outcomes. the knox family is now in the courtroom and the pieces are in place for the verdict outside the courtroom. >> live for us in perusia. that does it for this edition of "news nation." time in colleague martin bashir picks up the breaking news in italy next.
>> we are moment awayfrom a verdict in the amanda knox appeal. it is 9:00 in perusia, italy. family members and spectators and the media are surrounding the courthouse, awaiting the verdict on whether amanda knox will be free, a verdict we expect within the hour. we are in the final moments of the saga that has been ongoing for almost four