tv Lockup San Quentin MSNBC October 23, 2011 3:00am-4:00am PDT
due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. america's prisons. dangerous, often deadly. there are 2 million people doing time. every day is a battle to survive and to maintain order. >> down on your feet, down! >> among the nation's most notorious institutions, san quentin state prison. our cameras spent months documenting life on the inside where gangs, drugs, and sheer boredom make up a violent mix. this is "lockup san quentin: extended stay." >> san quentin is home to more
than 3,000 inmates ranging from the most violent offenders in california. >> i'll rob you in a minute. >> i pulled a gun on this man and shot him six times in his chest. >> to the all too common parole violators flooding the system. >> i do drugs. that's my violation. >> the overpopulated san quentin serves as the reception center for 17 counties in california. >> there's 384 inmates in this gym. right now i have six members. >> it's forced to house a dangerous mix of high and low risk inmates. >> you got the drugs, you got the inmates to manufacture alcohol, you got the gangs, the weapons. so it can be real dangerous at times. ♪ >> i've been a pretty successful robber.
>> level 4 inmates, the worst in california, are housed at san quentin while awaiting permanent transfer to other facilities. >> i used to rob stores, you know, and that in itself is a rush that you can't explain. it's like whoa, i can -- i own the world. i can do whatever i want. i can better than any ceo in the world, i can instruct you to do whatever i want you to do with a pistol to you, you know? it's adrenalin you can never get from anything else. unfortunately, there's the consequence, too. because i am -- you know, i got a strike. my years was doubled. which is like up to 521 years. and i got 11 consecutive life sentences. >> i know why i'm here, but i can see why most of you are here. hell, it's stupid.
>> in our three months of taping, we never heard an inmate so willing to detail his own crime, especially with an appeal pending. >> i've invaded many a home, not necessarily the ones i was convicted for. all right? i've invaded other people's homes, you know. people that play the same game i play, sell drugs whatever. i go in this home. >> how'd you get in? >> through the front door. how do you get in? >> the door wasn't locked? >> of course, if it's locked, you go through it, break down the door. alarm goes off. each of us take a room. got to cover everybody at one time. because it could be dangerous. you could get killed just as well. i take a room, which happened to be a son's room, kick him, wake up. wakes up, flashlight in his eyes and black room, he don't know what's going on. snatch him up, throw him down,
put his ankles together, zip him up, hands together, zip him up. it looked like he was like somebody in high school. he had trophies, you know, all the little athletic sport guy, you know, played football, you could tell. things like that, you know. so i could see him trying to be a hero or something for his family, you know? so that was my concern, okay? maybe he might be a threat. not that i'm really worried about it. it just means that i might have to do something i don't want to do such as shoot him or whatever you know? i'm not going to fight. i'm not here to see who can win. i'm here to win. at this time, he's calling out to his little sister which is right next door almost. you know, and that's my little sister, she's only 14, bro, leave her alone. this and that. all right. that's fine. i'm not worried about her, i'm worried about you right now. i guess the father came down from the stairs, turned the
alarm off. at that time, he was greeted by other people, instructed to turn the alarm off. once you got it under control, this is going to sound lake a dirt bag, but i'm keeping it real, you can actually sit down, drink one of their sodas, make one of their salads, hell, you can watch an hour of tv if you want. you can leave in their car when you're done. >> and that 14-year-old girl. >> okay. >> put yourself in her shoes. do you think you've changed anybody's life in that home? >> most definitely. i mean, i've wrecked on my bicycle when i was a kid and i remember that, let alone something like this. you know, i mean, i didn't say i didn't, you know, have no remorse for them. you asked me the story. i told you. that's why i said, you live by the gun, you die by the gun. there's so much truth to that. i mean, i may not die
physically, but emotionally i might have died, you know? i got to do -- forever here. you know, a lot of people like, man, bro, you got good spirits, how do you do it? i couldn't even imagine being in your situation. i'm like, well you know what? i think i deserve this. you know, i knew better what i was doing, i was doing. i knew the consequences. i knew the rules to the game. i played it, and i lost. now to sit here and be miserable and make other people miserable because of my wrongdoing, it's not the right way to be, you know? i know how to live comfortable in here. >> coming up on lockup: extended stay, nearly 20 years on death row, now he's out. >> i wanted the death penalty, to be honest with you. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar.
san quentin is home to the only operating execution chamber in california. and a condemned row that houses the highest level inmates in the state. >> as of today, we have 644 inmates on death row. and 622 of them are currently housed at san quentin. the other 22 are either out to court or seeking medical attention somewhere possibly in federal jurisdiction outside of the state. >> san quentin's condemned row houses california's most heinous criminals such as the night stalker richard ramirez, the man who killed polly class, richard allen davis whose crime led to california's three strikes law
and scott peterson, who was convicted of murdering his pregnant wife. >> the bottom line is, we don't allow filming in condemned row simply because it's department policy. >> though denied access to condemned row, our producers found an inmate who lived there for nearly 20 years. >> when i arrived on death row, it was in the winter of '91. i remember because it was real cold, there was icicles on the ground. my conviction for the death penalty was the double felony, the murder then the robbery, but you know, if you move a person from one spot to another so many feet, it's kidnapped. so they claimed it was kidnapped and threw another felony on there. during that time, i was young. i was wild. i was angry. the jury verdict was it wasn't something i didn't expect. so, you know, at that time, and point, i wanted the death
penalty, to be honest with you. because i wanted to come up here and you know, hang out until i was executed. but then that changed as time went on. death row of the two are the easiest place on the planet, you've been sentenced to die. extinction. you know, it's over with. the finality. you stay in your cell for orientation for several days until you meet the committee. then you go meet the committee. that's when the process really starts. from that point forward, then that's when you start to realize you're really on death row. a lot of people can't deal with it so they commit suicide. or they become introverts. and they start to go crazy. my case was overturned in 2003 for a violation. so i was sent back to the county jail to have a new trial. i lost the trial again and they
hung on the death penalty. so they decided after about several months not to refile the death penalty. so they air walked me and sent me back to san quentin. it feels good to be off death row, but it hasn't sunk in yet. you know, it will in time but it hasn't yet. they remove me from death row and put me in the reception center. the reception center is the most disgusting place in san quentin. i don't know how i ended up over there, but they re moved by a 1 a status. that means i was receiving all the benefits of programming, contact visits, packages, you know, yard. but they put me in reception center status which is zero status. you receive nothing. you sit in the cell for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, two days out of a week you get yard for three hours, and the rest of
the time you're stuck in a cell in a small cell with a cellie. i haven't had a cellie in 20 years, so it's hard learning cell etiquette. i don't know cell etiquette. i'm a fish out of water. >> he still hasn't learned yet. they should have gave him medical attention before they brought him in the cell. mental attention. >> mental attention. >> yeah. >> dude has issues still. >> yeah, got issues. you spend 20 years on death row, you're going to have issues. >> he has big issues. >> i was lucky, i was very lucky and they put me in a cell with a older black gentleman who's been around, and you know, he's open to teaching me. so he's teaching me about cell etiquette and prison etiquette again. because i don't know about prison etiquette any longer. i only know about death row etiquette which is different from main line etiquette. >> me and joe joe, we play cards. that what we do all day every day.
>> in case you're interested, if you see this woman right here anywhere, you tell her to write me. and i mean that. >> he means that. he's serious. >> with a full life now ahead of him, omar's focus has turned to helping others. >> now i want to live. i want to live, and i want to accomplish things. i want to help the young brothers. i want to help my people. during my incarceration, i've learned math, and a bunch of other things, history. i would like to share some of this stuff with young brothers coming in the prisons from the community i come from, who i know are going to come to prison, they're going to have dates and when they leave prison, they're going to leave with the same thing they came to prison with, nothing. and i want to get these brothers basic education, teach them basic mathematics, basic reading. i want to teach them this is not it. they don't want to come in and spend the rest of their life being told what to do, to be free, maybe when they go home,
they'll feel good about themselves and take care of their families, take care of their children and help another brother, you know. >> coming up on lockup extended stay, inmates unleash their long suppressed rage. >> frustrated and hated, asking me, now the hatred is so bad that i heart is cold. starting my progresso soup for lunch plan, huh. nope, just having some tender chicken and some tasty noodles.
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despite temporarily housing some of the worst inmates in california, san quentin is actually a level 2 facility, permanently housing mainly lower level inmates who are serving out life sentences. >> i've been in prison 29 years this december. i was arrested at age 21 for a second degree murder. and i've been incarcerated ever
since. i was so young, i just felt like my life is over. i've got a life sentence. it's over. i came to prison and started into the same behavior. i was like for the first nine years, i was using whatever i could, drugs, prison alcohol. just trying to do anything that i could to escape the reality of my situation and what i had done. you know and that, and it's just self-medicating the same way i was in the street. all the pain, everything that came up for me that was my solution, to self-medicate. that's what i did. >> in his struggle to conquer addiction, rusty discovered a passion for counseling others. >> i've been. 12 step programs for, oh, geez, probably about 18 years now, 19 years. the current program i'm in, it's called a.r.c. it's addiction recovery
counseling. >> it's a four-month program which is a state-of-the-art addiction treatment program. it's the first one ever in the world as far as we know that's completely run and has counselors who are inmates, who are trained inmates. >> it's one thing to sit across the desk from somebody in a suit and tie who's not in recovery, who's never been there that doesn't have know the first thing about getting busted, going to a county jail or going through a prison experience. it's a whole other thing when you've got a guy sitting across from them that's been there, that can totally relate to what this guy's saying. >> in addition to helping his fellow inmates, rusty hopes his efforts may influence his parole. >> i worked my points down through the years after coming into a level 2 facility and i've been to the board 17 times. i've received 17 one-year denials. i've been disciplinary free for 19 years, and in memory of the
victim and there's nothing i can do to take back what i've caused, all i can do is change who i am and all i can do is serve, serve mankind, serve humanity, any way possible to make up for what i did. ♪ ♪ lord, i am tired of being lied on ♪ >> i tell you one thing about san quentin, we got flavor here. we got flavor. >> programs like the annual poetry slam provide inmates a creative release, helping them to avoid potential disciplinary write-ups and longer sentences. >> now i fall to my knees, raise my hands to the top. it's like i'm buried alive. walking here.
i used to live, but now i fall to my knees and wait for him to decide. it's like i'm buried alive, and it's like i'm buried alive. alive, alive, alive, alive, alive. >> this is the san quentin portrait slam here. this is the fifth. this is the first time i actually participated in it. >> judges, let us see the scores for brother montgomery. we got a ten. a ten, a ten. a 9.3. we're going to drop the 9.3, drop the 10. >> twisting strands of braided brown hair around scarlet fingertips resting her palm on
willow tree hips. >> the funeral. wait a minute, get in character. >> sent her flowers. carnations, rose, and it smells green. unlike a wedding, you can sit where you want no usher hushing bride or groom. funny, all women look good in black. >> i think i'm going to do pretty good on the poetry. i'm a little nervous and don't fully remember my poem. i think it will come. as soon as i get up there it will just flow. >> please excuse me if this is a little graphic. i will cut down as much of the cussing as i can out. >> keep it real, home boy. >> get real. >> i am. >> ready? who would have thought that penal law would send a 15-year-old boy to juvenile hall and trial and messing the dope, 15 to life for taking another life, but never considering the fact that he wasn't right.
a gold blooded murderer who only thinks of himself but couldn't that be a sign, a frame for some f'ing help because he grew up in the ghetto where don't know nothing else and all he seeing is deaths and killing so what the hell. all we see was kicking my ass until one day i got so tired i stabbed my new dad. i said my real father just wasn't right. he used to do the same thing, every night. until the ultimatum of his kids the alcohol. all he got was from down the hall. knocking down every picture and mirror on the wall. as he walked out the door, that was a slam door, never saw him no more. until i got older and finally answered the phone and was trying to soul. the holy dugout of my orphanages just wouldn't close because now i'm fraus traited and hated and now the hatred is so bad that my heart is cold. there was no reason for you to just leave me and go. now i'm a basket and i don't want to see you no more. >> short people really got a lot
of pent up anger, don't they? don't make him mad. don't call me sad. >> judges we need the score for mighty mouse. that just went. we have a 9.5, a 10 plus a 9.5, 9.8, 9.8, so the winner is who's first? that's all i want to know. montgomery. please come up to the mike. >> i did very good, came in second place. that was good. some people say i got cheated but it was, no, that was very great. it was just fun all the way around. i'm very happy. this is my first time entering. maybe next year i'll come back and win it. i'll put together some better material and try to take it all. next on "lockup: extended stay," in for parole violation, this inmate's behavior could earn him permanent residence. >> he keeps getting in trouble. he batters the officers. he's resistant. he uses alcohol in custody. >> don't matter.[ ce
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msnbc now, i'm veronica de la cruz. a historic day for the people of libya. the new government will officially declare the country liberated. at the same time former dictator moammar gadhafi will be buried at a private location just days after he was killed by rebel forces. and the republicans are moving their presidential caucus to february 4th. it ends a battle with the party after nevada tried to jump ahead of new hampshire's traditional first in the nation primary. now back to our program. due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. ♪ daddy, when are you coming home, we don't want to spend another christmas with you
gone ♪ ♪ mama cries most every night, she's always feeling blue, daddy, we don't want to spend another christmas without you ♪ >> san quentin's h-unit houses level one and two inmates, many of whom are parole violators serving short sentences. >> down here is a little more laid back atmosphere with the inmates but at any time, they can turn on you. before i was working in counter section. >> when we first met co cavagnolo, he dealt with high
level inmates in administrative segregation. now he interacts with level one inmates in a dorm setting. >> i have 200 inmates and it's only me. it's like going totally other side of the spectrum. everything down here is observation, just watching, listening, getting the feel for the dorm and if you're always watching, you can tell when something's starting to go bad, hopefully stop it before it gets bad, but things happen down here all the time. you got a lot of drugs down here. partner found two hypodermic needles in this dorm probably about three days ago. so you got the drugs. you got the inmates, manufactured alcohol. you got the gangs. you got the weapons. so it can be real dangerous at times. i got to do three searches a day. so we just pick them randomly. this guy i haven't did yet. since i've been down here. so it's his lucky day. i'm going to get him to unlock
his locker. sometimes -- >> what? okay, you guys got me in trouble. >> unlock your locker, man. >> lock it? >> unlock it. >> my locker's unlocked. >> oh, that's yours right there? >> yeah. >> is he around? >> no, he's at p.i.o. can i move something out of mine real quick? >> huh-uh. >> come on, man. [ bleep ] >> this is the first time i my house -- i'm just doing a violation. i've got like nine days left. >> though parole violations bring these inmates to prison, internal violations could keep them here indefinitely. >> i'm looking for weapons, drugs, any time of contraband. stuff like this. he's got this. probably make illegal stinger out of it to heat up food, whatever. but stuff like that, they can't have. could blow out the power back here. >> how long have you been in prison, on and off?
>> a long time. since 1982. i'm not catching terms or anything like that. i'm just having a hard time with parole right now. >> why? >> i do drugs. that's my violation right there. there's my lighter. >> 58919. >> saltwater lighter. all's it is, you put a -- clips through here and there and you've got a hot one going from here to there, same thing here. and you run a wire from one to the other. fill this full of water and put two salts in it. it won't blow a circuit that way. it's a lighter. you plug it in and this gets red hot. >> for what? >> to light cigarettes. not that i smoke. i don't smoke.
i was holding it for a friend. you know. >> you know we're taking this stuff. >> yeah. >> let's take a walk up front real quick. straight up to the podium. >> this write-up may be minor but enough violations could earn an inmate a cell in administrative segregation. >> my case right now is from receiving stolen property in 2001. i'm on parole right now, been on parole for the last three years. so i'm just getting violations. just getting violations. i came to prison for a dui. they gave me 90 days for that, and six-month drug program. i left from the hole last time like a year and a half ago, they give me -- since i was in the shoe when i left, they
brought me back in the hole. that's how they do it. so now i'm back in here waiting to go to icc to find out when they're going to let me get out. >> matthew usually returns to prison for petty crimes. he has a history of committing more serious offenses behind bars. >> he's capable of a lot of violence in custody in the prison system. and in fact, he hasn't been in a general population setting since i think maybe 2003. and that's because he keeps getting in trouble. he batters the officers. he's resistant, uses alcohol in custody. ♪ >> whoops. that didn't work. >> good, how are you? >> good. >> this is institution classification committee. this is for administrative segregation inmates and this is
a due process issue where we bring them in, review why they're in ad seg and you know, go over the issues of why they're locked up in ad seg and what they can expect from here. >> cdc number. >> matthew nasholm, 245854. >> the committee is warden ayers. >> you were last incourse rated -- >> you referred to csr for transfer. the csr proved and you were retained. you have done your shoe-related time. therefore the recommendation is to release you to the rctp. okay? do you have any problems with being released? >> yes, i got a problem to gp because i'm not a gp. i dropped out. >> you in a gang? >> yes, i am affiliated with the gang, yes. >> you're a dropout of what? >> out of the woods. but right now, i'm just concerned about my housing, where i'm going to be housed.
that's all i'm worried about right now. >> by releasing him today we can make him a-1 status and that will give him the opportunity to parole today. so it doesn't matter where you're going to be housed at. we can go ahead and release you and keep you here pending your parole. >> understand that, nasholm? >> yes. >> so if we grant you a one-time, for the time you've been in ad seg, then they take this up, and run it through records office, and you parole today. do you understand that? >> yes. >> okay. >> yeah. >> okay. >> officially release you today. have a nice day. you'll be staying in your cell till they come get to you take to r&r, okay? >> okay, thank you. >> you have a right to appeal. >> a miracle happened or something. they said i was going to get released today, and when i come back to prison, i won't come back to the hole.
>> matthew's transition to freedom proves to be more complicated than he anticipated. >> what's going on, boss. >> come on in, let's do it. all right. in the chair. how you doing? >> how you doing? >> all right. we thought you were going home too, but you know how before you go home the analyst takes a look at your case, sees if anybody's interested in you and the sonoma county sheriff's office is interested in you. looks like you had a little health and safety code violation and a contempt of court. >> you know why? because they said i have to -- i had to be there -- i had to i been in custody. they said i had to go over there -- their dui class 21 days after -- after my -- after my release from the court date. and i never got released because i got four days time served and then i got a violation here so i was never out to make it over there. i figured that they would take
care of it, you know. but i guess apparently they didn't. >> it looks like it's going to be a ride home. $20,000 bail. they're misdemeanors. you're not going to get any more prison time for them. but we are making some pickup agreements for you. so sonoma county is going to drive down and pick you up in the next couple of days. we never tell you exactly when it's going to happen. do you have any questions? >> no, i guess that's plain as day. you know what i'm saying? >> all right. we didn't know. we thought you were on the way out the door, too. you know how things pop up at the last minute. all right, mr. nasholm, take care. >> thank you, guys. >> matthew will leave san quentin but instead of going home, he's headed straight to county jail. >> we're finished with him for now. if he violates his parole, if he commits another felony, we might see him again. >> next on "lockup: extended stay," no bars. no locks. no room for error. >> breaking all my rights.
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originally designed to house just over 3,000 inmates, san quentin is now home to more than 5,000. the overcrowding has forced the prison to convert every extra square foot into living space, creating dangerous environments for its inmates and officers. >> right now. >> down here, the dangers are pretty good. i'm left-handed. it's an open environment. >> gentlemen. >> there's right now, i have six staff members.
>> [ bleep ] >> this is like you're doing a good job on them, too. >> breaking all my rights. >> another day on the job. >> almost all the individuals down here are parole violators, been out on parole, couldn't hack it. got picked up for something, sent them back here, generally do six months, under a year, something of that nature. they go main line to another institution to do the rest of their time, or they're released back out on parole. prison system is really overcrowded. beds are at a premium. this is the rc overflow. we house 384 individuals. the gym being it's an open dorm. we have tvs. we're considered pretty of the luxury suites at the reception center. i have three sets of showers broke down by race in the gym. they self-segregate. we do not tell them where to go. the shower closest to the left
is all white. middle shower will be only your blacks, the far right shower is your hispanics and others. the tables along the day room right here are broken up into races. >> table for others. we're not gang members. >> other than black, other than white. >> american indian right here, a native american. >> we're all from different counties, different cities, but this brings us all together as one. >> it's a show of unity. everybody eats. you don't have to eat but that's how you show love. >> it's anyone's table. we're just playing a game here. >> but i mean, there's just certain races that you can play games with right here. and for white people, it's, what is it, ami, american indians. that's pretty much about it, ain't it? >> there's three separate types of mexicans and we can sit with
serranos and we can sit with pisces. don't ask me why. but we can't play with the black folks. i would get beat up. you'd get in a fight over it. that's just the way it is. there's more racism here than there is in, you know, in civilization for sure. if you don't come in prejudiced, you might leave prejudiced. >> anything we take for granted on the outside is worth money. books go for a premium in here. food is worth money. soups are 20 cents apiece in prison money. >> inmates will use virtually anything for bartering. many items not issued by the prison can be purchased in the canteen. >> these are the treasured ice creams. they love these ice creams. we carry a full variety, at least four or five flavors.
>> 24-767. >> you going to go with that? >> yes, please. >> the guy comes up to get his order filled, we have our workers fill the order by what he puts on this list right here. and if they've got enough money, we'll fill it. we'll fill it up to the point that they run out of money. so if ice cream is on the end of the list and they run out of money, they don't get the ice cream. >> thank you. >> we have different categories of guys. if you have what you call a-1-a status which is the highest status, kind of like a credit rating, highest status you can have, you can spend up to $180 at the canteen. and it goes down according to whatever your status is. you may have gotten in trouble, may be in the lockup and can only spend $70, some guys can only spend $90. that limits your purchasing power. >> here you go. all right. >> okay, this is just some of the things that we handle. they got the chili cheese chips and potato chips. as you can see, there's all types of sodas.
we're loaded on coffee. candy bars, of course. the cookies are big and the ramen, the noodles are probably about the biggest seller. they buy those cases at a time. that's the staple of what they make. >> i just spent all my money. >> these are some of the things we have to take off the containers of milk. things you take for granted in your home. this could be made into a slashing device. we have to remove these for the condemned especially. >> give me that bag. >> got to worry about it. next on "lockup: extended stay," inmates show at-risk kids the realities of prison. >> let's be real. what you going to do? >> what am i going to do? back pain. then i tried this.
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while serving life sentences, some level 2 inmates participate in squires, an outreach program for at-risk youth. ♪ welcome everybody >> good morning, gentlemen. my name is shiab. what we need you to understand, you're at san quentin this morning. you're in a place that no kid should ever want to be in. you should be out playing somewhere in the park but you're here because of something you did. >> every saturday, we bring in groups of kids from san
francisco, oakland, richmond, all over. you're not going to scare them with the story that i'm a murderer in prison doing life. that doesn't scare anybody any more. >> what you want to know, that this is your life, man. you have an opportunity to leave out of this place and never come back. >> we try to show them this is what could happen if you keep doing what you're doing. >> all right, you guys. where you guys is at right now, you're in r&r which is receiving and release. when you decide you guys wants to commit crimes and the judge sentences you to a certain amount of time, this is the first place you're going to go when you get off that bus. for you guys who like to wear your nice shoes, who like to wear nike, michael jordan, all of that good clothes, polo, when you come here, all of that's gone. this is your polo. these are your nikes. these are your filas and your reeboks. that's your fubu. this is your michael jordan gear.
this is your polo. this is your nice 501 jeans, you guys. this is what you guys sell yourself for. who speaks spanish here? can you read that? [ speaking spanish ] >> what does that mean? >> something about sexual assault. >> sexual assault. they're warning you about sexual assault in prison. how to protect yourself against it. >> the inmates are in essence the deterrent that will guide these youth back to a life of contributing to society. >> this is the building we live in, north block. and this building they have little small cells that are 9x4, nine feet tall, four feet wide. that's smaller than a walk-in closet, you guys. but yet two men live in those cells in that building. look where you at, man, you in a cage like an animal. have you ever been to a zoo? >> yeah.
>> okay. the cages for the monkey is bigger than this, right? okay then, so what does that tell you about yourself? >> they got more freedom than this. >> the animals get more freedom than us, right? so you need to really be thinking about. >> they treating us like we lower than animals, lesser than animals. >> but you can't blame it on them. i said this is because of the consequences of your actions. when you do something wrong, when you do something wrong, this is where you can end up. these are the possible solutions to you committing crime is putting you in a cage. >> in addition to showing them the realities of prison, the inmates challenge these youths assumptions of their lives on the street. >> this is why i connect with you. i love the same thing you love. it was fun to put hands on somebody and show my home boy i'm the man. and you don't want nothing neither. you get respect, right? what's your name? >> marco. >> what do they say in the hood? marco throw down.
marco know how to chunk them. don't mess with marco, right? that's what they tell you. that's what they told me because they knew i was willing to fight for nothing. on site, let's go. you think you can whoop me, then let's whoop. this is why i tell you this. that fighting, eventually it got tiring. because i was literally fighting every day, every single day of my life i was fighting. the homies already knew, romeo, he throw down. i say, okay, well i got to one-up them now. let me start carrying this knife. let me start carrying this pistol. and it took one day and all of about three or four seconds for me to pull my pistol out on somebody that i could have easily just fought, whooped them and been done with it. and i pulled a gun on this man and shot him six times in his chest, because he liked the color blue. you're 15, right? >> yeah. >> do you want to come to jail at 15 years old? do you want to come to prison
and have to be on the yard, stand up. let me see how tall you are. this was me. this was me when i came to prison. this was me right here. how tall are you about 5'1"? >> yeah. how much you weigh about 100 some? this was me when i came to prison. stand up, rhino. come on, now, man, what am i going to do? let's be real. what you going to do? what you going to do to him? you going to hurt him? >> i probably won't hurt him. >> what you going to do to him? honestly. because this is the same thing i had to ask myself. what am i going to really do up in here, as good as i can fight, what am i really going to do. >> inmates also challenge the youths to see all of the potential consequences of their actions. when i am going to juvenile court and they're telling me i'm not going to be tried as a juvenile, they're going to sentence me to life in prison,
when the man told me that, he specifically said mr. munro, you are a cold-blooded murderer, and we want you to rot in prison. i'm sentencing to you life in prison, and he slammed down his lillehammer, and my mom screamed. imagine how that felt. how would your mom feel? >> this is what it took to get them to us. it took me to come to prison. it took shahib to realize you know, there's more value out there in society and life than committing crime. >> with the knowledge they may never leave san quentin, the squires hope to never see these boys restrained by a security level. >> it's like i don't want to come over here. it's not a good place to be. overall, today was really, really good. i felt like i made a difference today.