tv Morning Joe MSNBC October 27, 2011 3:00am-6:00am PDT
all right. we're going to read you tweets right now. exciting ones. hey, willie, my three-year bout of insomnia ended, but now my neighbors have been fighting since 2:00. watching you beats listening to them. we've always said that, we are the alternative to domestic disturbance next door. also, highlight of the show every morning tweets one man, the glimpse of the pretty lady who sits next to the guy who reads e-mails at 5:59 a.m.
that, my friend, is brenda. brenda, you have a secret admirer. "morning joe" starts right now. they were there for about two weeks. things were pretty much peaceful during that period, and then police saw the situation deteriorating in terms of a public safety threat, they saw health conditions, they decided to get rid of those protesters to tell them to disband. >> so the city was concerned about a public safety threat. so they did this. listen, oakland, i know you want to keep the peace while respecting people's right to assemble, but it's hard to watch your reaction to this group of protesters with the tear gas when every sunday you host an occupation of these folks. the mad max reenactors club.
because believe me, they start peeing in public a lot sooner than the other protesters. good morning, it's thursday, october 27th, welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. we also have msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu harold ford jr. good to have you back on. a lot going on. i think we're going to start with occupy wall street. >> we will really quickly before we do that, looks like europe may be drawing closer to a solution. there's angela merkel who has been at the center of european politics and finance, mika, over the past six months or so. it's a woman who barely beat garhart schroeder five or six years ago. she's barely won, barely gotten into office and it's amazing how she has become the most powerful person in europe. >> yeah. no doubt about it.
>> let's start here. let's start in downtown oakland. tuesday night, this was the scene there. take a look. >> all right. that's new video posted on youtube of riot police firing tear gas canisters on demonstrators. police officials say they responded only after being hit by rocks and other objects. but one man, a 24-year-old marine, an iraq war vet, scott olsen who you can see in this video, i think right there, falling to the ground. he was critically injured after being struck in the head by a flying object. other protesters rushed to his aid. one of the police officers tossed a device temporarily
breaking up the crowd that was attempting to move olsen away from danger, chaos, obviously. protesters were eventually able to remove olsen from the scene. he's now hospitalized in critical condition with a fractured skull. it's unknown what type of object struck the man, but protesters are saying it was a canister of tear gas fired by riot police. oakland police chief howard jordan said in a press conference yesterday that the injury would be investigated if it was -- and looked into as if it was a fatal police shooting. >> you know what you were watching right there? you were watching a police riot. a police riot. the oakland police department has had a series of problems over the last ten years. and that was a police riot we were just watching. >> yeah, and by the way, you've had protests across the country, none have broken out like that. when i first saw the tear gas images yesterday morning, i thought -- first of all, i thought how stupid it was.
we didn't really understand the extent of the brutality until now. but you just sat there -- why did they do that? was it necessary to fire the tear gas? and create a much more difficult scene? which is exactly what they've done. >> they created hysteria for no reason. >> this is the police we're talking about? >> yeah. >> i'm going to hold back. >> they're protesting about their jobs and incomes. why the police would engage themselves this way is just -- >> i'd wait. let's go to new york. last night, protesters poured into the streets in an act of solidarity, marching through the financial district chanting "we are the 99%." so here we go. this is the backdrop to, of course the debate in washington where they're working on getting some kind of agreement in the debt super committee. you want to go there? >> we can go there in a minute.
i'm curious, willie, what are your thoughts of the overreaction by the oakland police and what it means for the bigger movement? >> i'm always careful to hear the whole story first, i want to know what happened. but to me, using tear gas on peaceful demonstrations is pretty unconscionable. again, the police, we don't know the circumstances, but if you can't contain a group of young kids protesting about jobs among other means, you might want to reevaluate your police work. >> it seems like a massive overreaction and so unnecessary, and you saw what happened with new york where they had a deadline to clear out the park. to clean it up for sanitation purposes and then go back in. and the protesters pushed back. and i think bloomberg and the other people in the city were smart enough to say okay, you know what? we need to be pragmatic, we need to yield, we need to avoid confrontation and let this play itself out. that didn't happen in oakland. and mike, you say there's a history of this in oakland, huh?
>> they have had several incidents, including a couple of fatal shootings that are questionable, police shootings. it's not something new with the oakland police department. some police departments, obviously, in this country can handle these things better than others. new york city police department's probably the best in the world at stuff like this. >> yeah. >> and there's a way to do it. you drop back, you form a perimeter line and you give the crowd a sense of how far they can go, but to engage a crowd as willie pointed out of what appeared to be largely young people, you know, with tear gas and firing tear gas canisters, which are lethal objects is questionable. >> were there any reports of damages that the protesters caused? i'm trying to figure out what provoked it. >> police say they were provoked by objects being thrown at them. a few thrown bottles -- >> that said -- >> tear gas -- >> move back. >> and to make the situation even worse, this 24-year-old vet who's lying in the street
bleeding from the head with a fractured skull now in critical condition as he's lying there, there's some young people that go over to try to help him out, and the police -- it's not like the police are firing from 300 yards away, they're 10 feet away. and they obviously see that they're going out to help this young kid out. and what do they do? they throw a flash bomb to disperse them. i don't know -- i'm with you, willie. a lot of times people jump to conclusions without knowing the full story and the police always seem to be the first ones to be pushed around and kicked around when something like -- you know, when you have the story show up on the pages of the newspaper. the burden is always on the police department, it seems. but in this case, this just seems so egregious. it seems like an egregious use of force. >> and you know what mike bloomberg and ray kelly have done is engage the protesters. they talk to the protesters. they say you respect us, we'll respect you. you can have the park.
we p want to clean it out, they said we're not leaving, and bloomberg said, okay, i need you not to do this. there have been small incidents, sure, but it's been going on more than a month in new york. >> no doubt about it. let's go on, mika. i know you've got a story in washington. it's crazy how washington seems so disconnected. we're going to read a story -- >> great point. >> they seem so disconnected from the pain of tens of millions of americans out of work. >> and disconnected from, i think, the battle cry or the anger of the people in these protests, which i think we know at this point that they want to be heard. and they will be heard. i mean, in one way or another, we cannot mock them and washington should take them very seriously for whatever it's worth. with the deadline fast approaching for the so-called super committee to submit a plan to cut the nation's debt, the committee's democratic members yesterday submitted their first proposal. the plan offered by the senate
finance chairman max baucus goes beyond the group's $1.2 trillion mandate reportedly seeking $2.5 trillion to $3 trillion in budget cuts over ten years. up to $500 billion in medicare cuts. and more than $1 trillion in new tax revenues. according to one source, more than 50% of the plan's deficit reduction would come from tax increases. an idea that will likely doom the proposal as republicans have said they will not accept such increases. democrats say their ideas were inspired by negotiations that had taken place between president obama and house speaker john boehner this summer. speaking yesterday, boehner noted the difficulty in achieving what he calls "fiscal sanity in washington." >> and i can tell you that these 12 members, democrats and republicans have continued to work very diligently trying to come to some agreement. and i can just say that, you
know, having been through these discussions with the president all year and the senate leadership all year, the reluctance to do what we know has to be done continues to mystify me. now, this is not rocket science. >> boehner added that entitlement changes are key to getting the deficit under control. the super committee has until november 23rd to reach an agreement. it does look like there are those cuts in there. it's hard to know the framework. >> yeah, you don't know the framework, you never know, harold ford, whether the cuts are real, what form the tax increases take on. i do hope, though, that the tax increases, the increase in tax revenue coming to washington, d.c. has to do with tax reform. because that's not a deal killer. you can raise more taxes by reforming taxes without increasing the top marginal rates, which as we know would doom any deal. bring more revenue to washington, but close the
loopholes. maybe that's what max baucus and the other democrats are talking about doing. let us hope. >> the fact that they've been largely out of sight. this show has been successful as always in getting the real opinion leaders on. you had toomey in the last day or so talking about this. the fact they've been sort of out of the limelight or spotlight has been a positive thing for the committee. the devil is in the details as always. but for them to actually present a plan almost a month before it's due is a positive thing for the congress. one of the things i hope, in particular as we talk about occupy wall street and the obvious things that happened in oakland. this is a set of issues and ideas that occupy wall street can rally around. what i've been unclear about with the movement is specifically legislative proposals. i agree with the massive income in equality and the jobs challenges. we all want to see that corrective. but now you have legislative proposals, but perhaps this is a set of issues and areas that
occupy wall street and some of the supporters can urge members of congress -- >> let me ask quickly while we go around here. i don't know what everybody else thinks occupy wall street stands for. i've heard a lot of people say there aren't specifics. but i just want to go around the table really quickly and ask people what they think it stands for. because for me it seems pretty simple, clear cut. the big idea is income disparity between the rich and the poor. and i think that's a big enough idea. and a lot of people have been talking about it recently. but that seems to be the big idea, right? >> i would say it's the income disparity and the lack of mobility, and the unemployment crisis. all wrapped up in one and coming out in the form of major resentment. >> yeah. mike, what do you think? >> i think it stands for the rather vague but actually real idea that is out there in this country that the system, our capitalist system no longer works for the majority of working people. that their incomes have remained
stagnant over a decade, they're surrounded by gross commercialism, increasingly high executive salaries, and they know that large parts of life that they thought was once within reach seemed to be totally out of reach to them now. >> not only within reach, it was expected. this was an entitlement that we had developed. >> i think in addition to the capitalist system not working, it's the government system not working because of the capitalist system. you go down there, talk to them, they feel like their politicians are bought and sold. and while they project the image we're out there fighting for you, creating jobs, they're protecting themselves, their jobs, and protecting the big donors that give them money. >> and you talk about the big salaries. it's amazing back in the '60s, '70s, maybe even early '80s, if you were running one of the biggest corporations in america, you made $2 million or $3 million. i knew a guy in his late 20s that worked at a hedge fund, and
i was talking to him, and asking him how he was doing. and he said he was upset because he wasn't making the money -- this was in the late '90s -- that some of his friends were making. and i said how much are you making? and he said i'll probably make $2 million or $3 million this year. and he left that hedge fund and went to a more boutique hedge fund because he wanted to make more money. he felt like he was being left behind. and i sat there thinking this week about that conversation i had, maybe it was five, six, seven, eight years ago. i thought, okay, this kid is getting paid the same that the top ceos in america were making 15, 20, 30 years ago. now if you destroy a company and your decisions end up costing tens of thousands of people jobs, you get $150 million golden parachute. it is so skewed, it is perverse. >> it's also off of willie's comments.
at the end of the day, occupy wall street, a large part of it i really feel is about something that you two guys know more about than any of us here. and it is the sense that the system is rigged. the fix is in in washington. for people with big money. you'll fight -- you have a -- you're a constituency that is listened to in washington. some guy making $23 an hour on the line, he has no clout in washington. none, zero. the fix is in. >> that guy used to have power with the unions and he used to have power back when 20%, 25% of americans were members of unions in the private sector. when you have 7% of americans, only 7% of americans in a union in the private sector, that voice is not going to be heard. now, the public sector unions are still very powerful. but you're talking about the guy making $20, $23. there just isn't the power and the force in washington to
represent that person, which leads to a big -- i mean, a bigger problem. because people watch the show and then they ask, what can we do about this? there's nothing we can do. i disagree. i disagree. and this isn't class warfare, i'm not talking about soaking the rich, but the entire tax system over the past 30 years has been geared towards helping rich people get richer much more quickly, creating exotic financial instruments on wall street. the best and the brightest 40 years ago used to be doctors, 20 years ago used to go fix software. but over the past 20 years, the best and brightest have gone to wall street to create instruments. we are letting wall street get rich while main street is withering. guess what? we can adjust our tax policy, not to be punitive, but to encourage investment on main street, in manufacturing, investment in middle america to rebuild the working class. >> since 1984, our debt in this
country, corporate, personal, and government has grown $40 trillion. before 1994, our national savings rate hovered between 8% and 10% between world war ii and reelection of ronald reagan. since that time as we all know that savings rate has come down and dipped into negativity in the '90s and early 2000s at a time. there is no doubt the gross excesses at the top of the economy, you've shown the numbers, you had economists on, rattner was on, the top 1% has seen incomes -- other income categories, particularly those in the middle who make up the majority of the country have only seen 10% to 15% increases. mike's point, i think, is the most important in all of this. the challenge we face in really the underlying message coming out of occupy wall street for me. i think your summary of it was right was people don't believe they can attain a certain income level or certain mobility anymore. when you lose that, you lose america. >> you lose hope. >> we can't -- not only lose hope, that's what america is.
the middle class and upper middle class define in sustain america. >> big problem for this administration was they were supposed to represent hope. >> exactly. and until we get back to that, we have a real challenge. >> so if you are coordinating the message of the movement of occupy wall street and want to take that message to go beyond the anger, is it calling for what you were talking about here? reining in wall street, reforming the tax code? >> well, i don't think you get that specific on this kind of movement. >> people seem to be very critical about -- >> i think they have to be a little more specific. >> no, no, no -- what they need to do is get out in the streets like they are right now. they need to shame washington. and, you know what? the slogan i would come up with if i were running this thing? >> what? >> we are the 99%. it's a great slogan, it's a great message. and again, to remind americans that 99% feels like they're being squeezed, like they're
being left behind. you know, we talk about -- we're facing right now a perfect storm. >> yeah. >> and -- and right now at the time that our manufacturing base has collapsed over the past 30 years. at the time that the middle class incomes have been going down over the past 30 years because so many jobs have gone overseas or have been taken away by increased productivity, the same time that's happening, everybody's moving toward retirement. so we've got massive debt on one side with a withering middle class on the other side. and that's what is squeezing us now. and what will destroy us. and i do mean economically destroy us over the next 30 years if washington doesn't wake up and face up to these challenges. >> i would agree. >> we're on the same page. coming up, walter isaacson will be here to talk about his
best-selling steve jobs biography. we're also going to have ken auletta and reverend al sharpton. up next, why politico says rick perry is shaping up to be president obama's new ally. but first, let's check on the forecast with bill karins. bill? >> well, good morning, everyone. it's always an argument, what's worse? snow or cold, cold rain? we've got two of those scenarios today. the cold is in new england, the snow was out in colorado yesterday. denver had about 6 inches of snow, and still problems on the interstates, especially interstate 40 from amarillo to albuquerque. you need the umbrella today and the heavier coat from boston back down through west virginia, washington, d.c., that rain is increasing as i speak. it's going to be one of those days where it's kind of cloudy and cool and a little bit breezy too. and we may get snow showers out of this.
the berkshires, the catskills could see snow showers later on today. and there's the heavy rain around oklahoma city and snow around amarillo. one of the busy travel days out there where we could see delays at the airport. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. fix it or find a new job, all right? i got it, i'm sorry. these people, huh? you know i've found that anger is the enemy of instruction. you don't know the egos that i have to deal with. you're probably right. thank you! whoever you are. i'm pretty sure that was phil jackson. he's quite famous... million championships... triangle offense innovator... [ male announcer ] the audi a8. named best large luxury sedan. nice wheels zen master. thank you...todd. ♪
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all on america's fastest, most reliable 4g network. no wonder more businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier. verizon. i don't think i was expressing doubts. i was having some fun with donald trump. >> are you comfortable he's an american citizen? >> it's fun to, you know -- lighten up a little bit. >> you have no doubt he's an american citizen. >> i have no doubt about it. here's the more interesting thing. let's lay out our income taxes, let's lay out our college transcripts, mine's been on the front page of the paper. >> 25 past the hour. i was ignoring it. >> no, don't ignore it.
his advisers got him into a room and say drop the birther issue. drop it. >> see the problem is, he lifted it up in the first place. >> but i'm just saying, though, he executed properly. >> okay. >> he did right blocking and tackling. a & m went off tackle. that's what you have to do. republican candidates, let me help you out. not only with independents and democrats, let me help you out with donors that aren't going to give money to kooks. now let's talk about real issues. if they ask you, does the president love america? you say, yes, i know the president loves america. let's move on. if you just do that. just check those two boxes off, that helps. >> i'm so sorry. >> and you saw perry -- >> absolutely. >> no, i'm telling you, his new advisers got him in a room and they whipped his butt and they said stop this nonsense now, it's not funny. >> what do you say to people who
have their campaign managers smoking in their commercials? >> cain is a completely different issue. >> i'm so sorry. >> if you've got 'em, smoke 'em. >> that advice, it's stupid. >> no, there's an element of the republican party that likes to destroy their chances of winning general elections, and it makes them feel special about themselves, but for the rest of us, i only have this to say in the gop, we are the 99%. you 1% kooks make your money writing crazy books and screaming on the radio, we are the 99%, all right? so just shut up. what's next? >> we're going to -- >> and write your blogs in your basement, okay? and by the way, the chee-tos stains, they don't come out. you're the 1% crazy. so have your fun now, we take over in a couple of months. >> all right. let's -- >> let the tweet thing explode -- >> yesterday, you would not have
believed the hatred from -- >> all sides. >> i said from the far left yesterday, it was a hatred from these obama people. it's a personality cult for a certain small segment of obama supporters, not the vast majority, but for the idiots that are just -- you know, yesterday we attacked perry and cain and we also -- i had my comments about barack obama. and i simply stated he got more money from wall street than anybody else. the hatred on here from the far left, from the obama -- actually the intense obama supporters, not the far left. because a lot of people from the far left said you're exactly right, keep going. the hatred was unbelievable there, and the hatred on the far right for daring to say the truth about perry and the birtherism. >> oh, it was crazy! >> it kind of continued at an event we were at last night for the yale school for women. they were attacking you. >> they were attacking you too. >> i got attacked for different reasons. >> they're watching.
>> fun. >> no, here's the thing you have to remember with new media, you really do. that every time somebody writes something really hateful, if you get a line of really hateful things -- >> yeah. >> we got like 110,000, 115,000 followers on twitter, there's 1% that every day writes the nasty stuff. right? >> right. >> and you re-tweet something hateful that somebody wrote, and suddenly the silent 99% start writing in saying, hey, listen, you're great, we love you. but there's a small segment -- and if you go to the "huffington post" and read the comments, there are a lot of really hateful comments. >> you can't read comments. >> but you get that with every site. and what they'll tell you is that a small percentage of the people who read that every day. you've got to keep your head down, keep calm -- >> what was that skit on saturday night live with al franken, he used to look in the
mirror -- >> stewart smalley. >> i'm good enough -- >> you don't read those things? >> i don't read anything. >> it doesn't matter. there are a lot of good things in the newspaper. >> yeah. >> and we'll get to them later, but let's to politico right now. >> mike allen is down there right now, mike, good morning. >> good morning. we have frequent commenter vlad the impaler, and i don't think that vlad is part of the 99%. >> vlad the what? >> vlad the impaler is his actual screen name. >> let's go on to politico. >> politico's lead story this morning, i don't need to tell you, mike allen, rick perry, president obama finding a common enemy in mitt romney. tell us about it. >> well, no, this is a fascinating strategy by democrats. they're drafting behind rick perry the republicans. they're enjoying the attacks on
mitt romney, especially this, the flip-flopping, the democratic strategist tells us if you close your eyes and look at some of the attacks on romney, you can't tell if it's coming from rick perry or president obama's political team. so romney's already taking it from both sides. democrats tell us this is about a reality. it's not that they want romney or trying to push him as the nominee or even decapitate him as the nominee, they're already acknowledging he is the nominee. romney people like that. they've been running against obama for months as we've seen with these videos about a jobless america. >> yeah, he likes where he is right now. you guys had a piece yesterday up about rick perry and the debates. essentially his campaign saying, he's not going to really do so many debates anymore. >> yeah, it has not proved to be his forte.
the perry strategy is they're not going to win debates, not going to win the press, not going to win endorsements. but in the snows of iowa, in new hampshire, they'll do better. >> are you saying he's not going to do the debates? >> some of them. >> you know, they are arguing that few voters are watching these. in fact, like they're getting great ratings. in the spin room after the fantastic vegas fight night, dave carney, his chief strategist said people are going to start tuning these out. and i said, oh, no they're not. if it's like this one, everybody's going to be popping the popcorn. >> if i'm running perry's campaign and i'm dead serious right here. i would say exactly what he's saying which is, you know, the whole idea that it's a gotcha game. i'd pull him out of the debates and make a statement. i'm not going to go up there with eight or nine people yells at each other, i'm going to go with voters.
people who have seen perry campaign from door to door and convention hall to convention hall say he is great one-on-one. he is a retail -- >> how would you then if you were managing romney say you address or attack him for not appearing at debates? >> well, i think romney attacks him every night. but you know when rick perry goes into a debate, it's going to hurt him. the poll numbers will go down. and you always -- the key is you always get somebody. you figure out what they're strong at. george w. bush was always horrible in formal settings, and i thought they always kept him in formal settings too much instead of highlighting -- as you know, at tim's funeral, when you met bush privately. anybody who meets bush privately says he's a charming guy, wonderful guy, but he was terrible in formal settings in the east room. and i think perry's terrible at these debates. so keep him away from the debates. >> he made the point two nights ago on fox, he said these things are a circus, i've got people
yelling at me. i'm not going to go to 18 debates and prep -- >> i would say i'll do romney one-on-one, but i'm not going to -- he's got to go to his strength. i think it's a great strategy. >> the problem is, you can't ask for a romney debate when you're in sixth place, polling at 8%. >> have a good day. >> thanks so much. coming up, we'll show you what albert pujols did. the game got rained out, so he needed something to do. they're in the world series. >> what did he do? >> that's a tease. we'll tell you. queen elizabeth gets a royal welcome in australia from a group group. [ male announcer ] you've climbed a few mountains during your time. and having a partner like northern trust -- one of the nation's largest wealth managers --
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game six of the world series was officially postponed yesterday earlier in the day after the forecast called for rain throughout the evening. the game was moved by major league baseball to 8:00 tonight. but this was the scene at busch stadium in st. louis when the ap nounsment was made. just a light drizzle. some of the players wondering why they couldn't have played. lance berkman was quoted as saying, i'm not sure why they canceled it. i guess i'm going to lie back on the couch like a big fat pig and
watch a movie. >> all right. >> we also got a glimpse yesterday of the pregame ritual of mr. albert pujols. >> is he the best hitter in baseball? >> i believe he is. how did pujols spend his day off on tuesday before wednesday's world series game six? what else do you do? you go to the local best buy and you pick up the new captain america dvd. it was just out on tuesday. he was one of the first in line at the best buy. as you can see -- >> was he really? >> yeah, he met st. louis cardinals fan there. got his picture taken. >> captain america. >> posted on twitter. >> i was told that was out yesterday. >> they will play tonight. the forecast for tonight's game, 50 degrees and clear. colby lewis pitches for texas, garcia going for the cardinals. >> who is going to win? >> cardinals. >> what do you think? >> i'm rooting for the cardinals, but i think texas wins. >> do you think the cardinals can come back and win the series? >> oh, yeah. >> do you really?
>> we have to win two games in a row in our home stadium. if you're the cardinals, you think to yourself. >> oh, he adopted the cardinals. >> i can't walk you through every nuance of human conversation. >> now you know how i feel. >> this is for the red sox. >> can we send this guy to the glue factory, willie? seriously. >> red sox right-hander lackey will have surgery to repair damage in his elbow. that means he'll miss the entire 2012 season. $83 million, was that the deal? >> at least you have your wife with you. and so it'll be nice for his family to stand around, he's -- it's a terrible time for him. >> that's tough. too much. >> can he get out? too soon? can we get him out of austin? >> well, he's out of there for the year. >> who would take that contract?
>> what about carl crawford? >> no, i want to keep carl crawford. he's a really -- >> can't he have laser surgery to get rid of the cataracts? the guy did not see the ball all year. >> let's put some smile on red sox faces. this day seven years ago -- >> i was there! >> yeah! red sox fans have longed to hear it. the boston red sox are world champions! >> good morning, ghostbusters -- ♪ and i'm proud to be an american ♪ >> had no idea where he was. up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. we'll be right back. i'm not a number.
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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." mika, let's go to your must-read op-ed. >> i'm looking at a report that came out of the vatican. it's very interesting and it's talking about the financial system globally. >> okay. >> says it's not a direct response to the wall street occupiers or the reets, but lis. the vatican's pontiff call council for justice and peace issued a strong and thoughtful critique of the global financial system this week that paralleled many of the criticisms of unchecked capitalism that are echoing through lower manhattan and cities around the world. we should not be afraid to propose new ideas even if they'll might destabilize pre-existing balances of power that prevail over the weakest, the document declares, they are a seed thrown to the ground that
will sprout and hurry toward bearing fruit. let's hope so, if our leaders won't challenge us to love, mercy, and do justice, who will? i think it was interesting this morning the conversation we had at the top of the show about what the protests mean. and it was -- i liked seeing how we all really were in sync about exactly what it means because i'm kind of tired of the question. i think we know where we stand, right? >> yeah. but i don't think that's the question -- i think the question is, what is it that the occupy wall street and the occupy u.s. effort is seeking to have changed? and i should say how you want to change it. i don't think there's any doubt the income inequality. income inequality, mobility, and jobs. how do you achieve that? whatever you want to say about the tea party movement, they had three or four ideas they wanted in washington. whatever you want to say about marriage equality in the city, they got it passed in the new
york legislature. the question now becomes with the occupy effort, you've got to lay out two or three things you want how you want to get them done. the vehicle to get there. and i think their chances to achieve success are increased dramatically. >> all right. >> "wall street journal," where the jobs are by harold ford jr. >> oh, good lord. this is exciting. >> we should try and get him on. >> do you think we can book him? oh, wait. >> i hear the demands. what a diva. >> oh, yeah. >> temperature in the car. >> room temperature water. >> coffee's not hot enough. >> and he requires that divider between the driver and -- >> you're not allowed to have eye contact either. yeah. all right. i'll read it anyway. >> piles of coke. >> all right. >> it's just horrible. >> here's what harold writes. >> read this coked up diva what he has to say. >> we spend so much time theorizing about new steps government can take to create jobs that we sometimes overlook
the jobs that are right in front of us waiting for government approval. take the proposed $700 billion keystone oil pipeline running canada to the u.s. gulf coast. it would create tens of thousands of new jobs in construction, maintenance, and refining. secretary of state hillary clinton supports the project, yet the regulatory hurdles remain. we need to support leaders who are working to realize the enormous potential of america's oil and gas industry. i don't agree with everything president obama has done on the economic front, but it has been unfortunate to watch fellow democrats not back him on energy projects like the arctic sea permits. to ignore these resources and economic potential is counterproductive. americans are asking where the jobs are. the answer, they're all around us. we need to get out of their way now. >> so harold, why isn't this pipeline moving forward? >> there's resistance, regulatory resistance, political resistance. >> because it's considered to be
dangerous? >> some do, and some groups support it. reality is, if we are serious about job creation in the country, which we are, there are two areas where it's happening the fastest, one is in the energy industry, and two is in health care. and you've got to find ways to incentivize it. if we believe that fraccing is unsafe, let's find the safest measures, wrap the best regulatory arrangement around it, governor cuomo is doing it here in this state. he's set limitations on it. membership only point is this industry is viable, it's vibrant, and the jobs are high-paying. >> now, some people would say -- >> i'm not urging anything dangerous -- >> some people would say this is the reason china's doing so well right now because they don't have one regulatory obstacle after another after another after another. and the local, the state, the national level, they can say we're going to improve our infrastructure, we're going to improve our energy grid, and they do it. >> right. now i would argue.
there's just more you should do perhaps than the chinese, but we'd go overboard with it. the president has urged and encouraged and allowed some of these things to happen. >> does he support this project? >> some of them he does, yes. the administration has shown support for -- >> the pipeline? >> yeah. >> so who's blocking it? >> there's still regulatory -- the secretary of state has supported it, the white house has not embraced it as they should. and it's the president's own administration that's blocking it from a regulatory standpoint. >> thank you. >> willie's news you can't use is next. the postal service is critical to our economy--
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please, please. tell me it's time -- >> time for news you can't use. day three now of the herman cain smoking ad. >> no, you're dragging it out. >> mark block, the chief of staff, let block be block. apparently that's a theme inside herman cain's campaign as he explained last night on fox news. >> we have a saying in my campaign. let herman be herman. this is the attitude that i have when i do when i do debates, interviews, let herman be herman. mark block is my chief of staff and we also say let mark be
mark. mark happens to be a smoker, he knows it's a bad habit, but he smokes. many of us found it hilarious because we know mark block, and i thought he did a great job with the ad. >> hey, it's working so far. let herman be herman, let block be block. >> we're still going under the concept this was a series ad? >> yeah, and everybody's talking about it. >> no way. >> and by the way, herman's in first place, let herman be herman and let block be block and let the voters line up. >> there's no way. >> it's thus far the most talked about -- >> remember the huckabee ad and he said it wasn't a cross, it's like the beatles -- >> this was a man blowing smoke close up to a face that, you know, blowing smoke -- >> it's like clint eastwood. let block be block. back off him. >> no, this is not a serious ad. it's a joke. >> you can't argue with success, baby. >> exactly. >> everybody's jumping on the
cain train, he's in first place. >> wow, yeah. >> on the cain train. >> all aboard. all aboard. >> all aboard the cain train. >> you know who else we want to let be himself? vladimir putin. >> what's he up to? >> he did some sea diving, discovered some urns, he did that. turns out those were planted by his aides, by the way. >> butterflies. >> what else. >> oh, topless horseback riding. >> rub oil all over that. >> these are getting worse. >> what? >> the outdoor stuff is good, but when he gets indoors, with the racket sports, it gets less impressive. yes, that's the current president, medvedev. >> did he change his name to alice? >> do you have any stories about queen elizabeth? >> glad you asked. she's on a visit to australia, and the aborigines put on a
ceremony for her. some traditional dancing and she stood there in her lovely outfit with the hat and what not and the purse. >> she looks comfortable. >> she looks stunned. what am i looking at, she thinks to herself. there you go, queen elizabeth, down under. coming up next, the reverend al sharpton joins the conversation. we'll be right back. [ dog barks ] [ kid ] dad? who is honus...wagner? no idea. let me see that. that's a honus wagner autograph... the hall of famer? look at this ball! yeah, found that at a yard sale. i thought pickles would like it. [ dog barks ] that a new car jerry? yeah...
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for decades, too many of our institutions from washington to wall street fail to adapt. or they adapted in ways that didn't work for ordinary folk. for middle class families, for those aspiring to get into the middle class. >> instead of appealing to the hope and optimism that were the hallmarks to his first campaign, he has launched his second campaign by preying on the emotions of fear, envy, and resentment. this has the potential to be just as damaging as his misguided policies. sewing social unrest and class resentment makes america weaker, not stronger. pitting one group against another only distracts us from the true sources of inequity in this country. >> welcome back to "morning joe."
a lot to talk about this hour. mike barnicle and harold ford jr. are still with us. and joining us from washington, the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. good to have you on from washington, reverend al. >> good morning. >> reverend, what are you doing in washington? are you down there making trouble? >> i hope so. somebody needs to make some trouble down here. >> yes, yes. somebody does need to stir it up. no doubt about it. >> we want to get to 2012 politics, but can we talk about what paul ryan said? is that exactly what this president's doing? preying upon fears, sewing resentment. i would say he's responding to it. i totally take issue with that. do you disagree? >> i think there are two ways to look at it. and i think -- >> do you disagree? >> i think that paul ryan has a view. that would suggest that maybe instead of just pointing at the 1% and the wealthy that we need
to basically get everybody together in a room and figure out a way to fix this. >> uh-huh. >> it's a debate out there. i personally, i think right now that the united states government is faced with a real crisis, a crisis that's been growing for 30 years, and i think it requires more than tax cuts and regulatory cuts, which certainly is my ideological slant in normal times, but these aren't normal times. so -- i mean, i read the speech that paul gave and i agree with an awful lot he says in there. but i do think this is more than just your basic run of the mill populism and class envy. we are at a tipping point in the united states. and as we say every day, it's going to require people on the right and left to turn their backs on blind ideology. and look for solutions. >> paul, what i didn't hear, and
i read most of his speech. i didn't hear anything about investments in the country. and you talk a lot about that on this show. combined with reforms, and he only talked about the taxes and the regulatory stuff and the entitlement stuff, which are all important, but at the end of the day also you've got to -- as you said on the show -- we've mismanaged a growth and expansion of the government over the last 15 or 20 years, and we have to make investments in other places. i think obama, his speech was -- he needs to -- the president sounds like he's running for president as opposed to running for reelection. >> do you think he's engaging in class warfare? >> no, you can't deny as we've done on this show, the 99% and the 1%. >> are you uncomfortable with some of the things the president's saying? do you think he's resorting to populism? >> look, every president, everybody running for president resorts to populism on either side.
paul's speech was populism. >> but also tea party members that don't have a lot of money. >> but 275% increase for people who happen to be -- >> i understand. we say it here every day. >> paul's plan didn't talk about why our education system has failed a number of middle class families, has made it impossible for kids to afford college. those -- you have to address those issues if you want to ensure that america grows. >> politicians, mika, are giving us false choices right now. on the right, politicians are saying we can rebuild the middle class. it's been on the decline since 1971 by simply cutting taxes and cutting regulations. politicians on the left are saying we can rebuild that middle class by spending $1 trillion, $2 trillion, $3 trillion more on stimulus plans from the top down. both of those approaches will fail. they will create a temporary bubble as jeffrey sachs has said that will burst and we'll be back in the same position we're
in. >> and a false argument here. because for either side to say the other side is sewing resentment is actually doing that. and the fear and the resentment is there. can we all agree on that? that it's already there. and both sides should respond to it by getting to the table and actually surprising america and getting something done. >> there are two ways to look at the world. >> really? >> more than two ways to look at the world. >> you don't think that fear and resentment and anger is already there? >> i think the president of the united states as president of the united states needs to be very careful. he needs to walk a very fine line, and he needs to make sure he doesn't go over the line to demagoguery and class warfare. and by the way, you know who else believes that? the president's political advisers. >> what has he done that's leading to demagoguery. >> i'm not looking for a debate here. i'm saying it's not as black and
white as you may suggest it is. anyway. >> there's class warfare in a country without either side talking. the fact that we have the disparities that we have, whoever's perpetrating, we can argue over the biggest perpetrator, but we have class lines in this country that have become so exacerbated, so pronounced that it's starting to threaten the fabric of the country and the future of the country if people believe there's no mobility for them -- >> well, that's right now. i think that is the greatest challenge. >> right. >> and so either side can make it more problematic or worsen it. and that's what the campaign will be about. >> let's bring in reverend al sharpton. sharpton, that is one of the great fears for a lot of americans who are concerned that the idea that my parents had, even when my dad was unemployed for a couple of years in the early '70s was my kids can do better than me. my kids can achieve whatever they want to achieve. the american dream is alive and well. in an era where the rich are
getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, the middle class is being hollowed out, the american dream is basically on the run, isn't it? >> no question. and i think it has gone beyond can i no longer believe my kids can do better than me. we're starting to worry, can my kids do as well as i did? and i may not be doing well. and i think, you know, it's raining in washington today. if i had got on and said it's raining in washington, that is not saying if i'm wanting you to take out an umbrella. i'm not trying to promote fear, i'm trying to tell you what the climate is. and i think when we see the rich getting rich, the poor getting poorer, and we are not adapting -- and i think that's what the president used the term in the clip you played, adapting to what the present conditions are. then i think we are deluding ourselves. and to just attack the weatherman rather than prepare for the weather i think is
irresponsible. i read ryan's speech, and i think -- what i disagree is it still seems to be some denial that we're going to have to make some adjustments and adaption if we're going to come out of this widening gap. the other thing i think we need to deal with, joe, is the fact that we have got to stop the hemorrhaging. so at one level, i hear you when you say, yes, we can't just put stimulus money in and think that will solve the long-term problem. but we've got to deal with the short-term hemorrhaging, unemployment, and people that are suffering. this is real, every day life to people, and they don't have the time to wait for us to restructure. >> right, so as long as we understand, reverend, that if we spend another $1 trillion, in let's say stimulus spending, as long as we understand that it is just a bridge and that we are hoping that there will be something on the other side of it. but we have to understand going in, we're $15 trillion in debt,
after another stimulus bill, we may be $16 trillion in debt. to ease the pain that millions and millions of americans are experiencing right now. but let washington stop lying to us. and stop telling us that another $1 trillion in spending is going to kick start this economy. it is a band-aid. >> i think you're right. i think that as long as we are honest as you say and say this is a bridge, that's fine. but what i keep hearing too many on the right say is we don't need a bridge, and tell people standing on the brink and looking at a huge gulf to jump. jump means you're going to drown. at least the bridge stops me from drowning so we can get where we're going. >> i think the problem is -- and also, mike, is you know, there are people that will argue on the left, well, we need $1 trillion in stimulus spending, or we should've spent more on the last stimulus package, and that would've kick started the economy. jeffrey sachs was right in
realtime when he said in january and february of 2009, this is just going to create another bubble. it's not -- we need a long-term investment in this country. and we had pat toomey on yesterday, a guy who i agree with ideologically on economics almost all the time. but when we were asking him about the suffering in pennsylvania. with working class pennsylvanians that have seen their jobs disappearing since the early 1970s when the steel plants started closing down and being shipped overseas to japan. pat was talking about cutting taxes and regulations. talking about helping the supply and not building the demand. it sounds like the right's version of paul krugman. it sounds very 1994 to me. >> you know, senator toomey, who seems like a good guy. he is a good guy. >> he is a good guy. and again, i agree with him
ideologically on many fronts. >> and today's performance was another startling example of how washington is so far removed from reality that it is shocking. this is such a complex issue that we're talking about here. there is a huge social cultural divide that's growing each day in this country. and the divide undercuts the hope and the belief that so many of us have in what america means. it means social mobility. it means the idea you're going to get a job and then a better job and your kids are going to get jobs and you'll buy a small house and a larger house, but now we're down to the point where a large group of people, ordinary americans, they're the ones whose kids go to subpar schools. they're the ones who get laid off first with no hope of getting a job. they're the ones whose sons and daughters fight our wars. they're the ones who bear the burden while the 1% get richer and richer and richer. now, god bless them, you know,
some of them work hard for it. there's no denying that. but the social cultural divide in this country gets wider each and every day and it's getting to be more dangerous than dynamite. >> and by the way, mika, as you know, i went to art school for 17 years. >> right. oh, wonderful. that's beautiful. >> i just made this chart to explain really quickly. we're doing it -- over the last break. here's the deal. this is what washington doesn't understand. the 99% are being squeezed. and we hear about the debt an awful lot. you hear about the debt over here, but the problem is, as we said in the last segment, this massive debt, social security, medicare, medicaid, $15 trillion, the personal debt, it's coming at the same time the united states is facing a decline, a decline that started in our middle class in 1973. and so these two things, at the same time the baby boomers are
slouching towards retirement, you have this decline of the middle class or manufacturing base which is, again, so it is so maddening when people go, oh, barack obama, it's barack obama's fault, it's george w. bush's fault. no, this is a crisis 30 years in the making. could presidents over the past 20 years done more to prepare? to prepare for this? yes, they certainly could've. but the fact is right now, we -- there are two forces that are rocking this country. and they're going to continue squeezing until we don't recognize this america. if washington doesn't fix it. >> the resentment that president obama -- resentment stronger -- the expressions he makes. unions and occupy america makes is simple. if you're going to ask for medicare cuts, social security cuts, which we have to have. if you're going to ask for sacrifice from the middle class, everyone around this table, and those who make far more
exponentially more, have to pay more taxes. and for republicans to make the case that they will not accept a debt reduction or a debt ceiling increase bill or a balanced budget or budget deal that does not include asking the richest people in the country to pay more taxes will not only continue to provoke and spur and encourage occupiers rightly so, it will continue to threaten the country. so tax increase, we have to have taxes, more taxes. >> reverend al, both sides will have to give, aren't they? >> they are. and i think if you're going to have shared sacrifice, it must be those that have the most must also be part of sharing. so when you have people like you and harold in the 1% and people like mike and i in the bottom 99%. >> this is the type of class warfare that paul ryan was talking about yesterday. it makes me sad. >> i think paul ryan needs to
come on the show. >> he does. we love paul. later, walter isaacson will be here to talk about his chart-topping biography on steve jobs. >> chart topping. we're going to bring in the shadow chancellor of the ex-eh c ex-checker. but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> it's an ugly day out there, we're going to see rain and cold conditions in many areas of the northeast, but not as bad as denver. right now, 18 degrees in denver. some of that cold air is going to spill through the midwest and through the northeast the next couple of days. it's cold up in albany and buffalo too. temperature now there in the upper 30s. all the green on this map is areas of light rain and drizzle. and sooner or later, later after dark, the poconos and berkshires will see snow flakes along with
this. there's your forecast. the ohio valley's looking better today, but still a shower or two around chicago. and also, heavy rain from oklahoma city to dallas. wondering about that world series game tonight in st. louis, we're going to get it in. temperatures on the chilly side, but the rain showers from yesterday are long gone. and there's the arch. should be an interesting scene there tonight. i'm not a number. i'm not a line item on a budget. and i'm definitely not a pushover. but i am a voter. so washington... before you even think about cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪
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it is now the shadow chancellor member of the british parliament, ed balls, a big fan of -- >> you said it exactly right. >> norwidge. >> we met, and i was thinking about you this weekend, we met in april as i watched your plucky little team club pound liverpool. it was actually a 1-1 draw, but you recall in the stands, had to
be exciting. >> i was in the stands and norwidge, which is a small team, they are worth less than five of the players. we drew and we held you and we were massive. >> now, here you are. >> you should have won. >> you were one of the top political leaders in great britain. and yet you go to to the field to cheer against liverpool. not a wise thing to do. did you jump up and scream? have your scarf and dance? >> well, i was sitting in the liverpool stands, but in the end, people were people and politics are real. and it's a really big deal. they're a plucky little team, but they're doing fabulously. against the might of liverpool, they're not the biggest team. and obviously you support the biggest team and i'm supporting the plucky little team. >> whatever, i support a team that can't buy a win. so big deal breaking in the euro zone. the possibility of some resolution to this crisis. >> yeah.
>> where are we right now? >> i think we are in a much better place today than we were yesterday. there's no doubt about that. the devil is absolutely in the detail. but today, the european central bank has been in the markets following this up. buying italian and spanish debt. but we cannot have another summit in the euro zone where we say we're going to move forward, we're going to act, and a few days, weeks later, people say where's the detail? where's the substance? where's the oomph, this is a crisis going on for so long. >> which has a real impact. some americans may not understand it has a great impact on our economy right now. a lot of skittishes on wall street waiting for a resolution in europe. >> i was meeting investment bankers in the new york fed, deeply worried about the euro zone, because if you have a vacuum, if you don't have decisiveness, well, then the market feels, i'm not sure we can take these risks.
the u.s. has been very worried for the last few months. >> no doubt. >> but that impacts upon your growth rate. if the euro zone's not growing, that's bad news for exporters of america. and i'm afraid if you've got a situation where america's not really growing in the way we want, the euro zone's not growing in the way we want, britain's doing really bad in terms of growth. >> what's your growth right now? >> we basically had zero for the last nine months. >> it's on the front page of every paper. europe agrees on a plan to bolster the banks. put the framework of the deal on the screen. you've called the euro zone problems the biggest political crisis of our lifetime. does the deal we're looking at come close to trying to resolve the crisis? >> well, i hope so. but let's be honest, it wasn't until after 2:00 in the morning in brussels the deal was announced. and there's far more questions not answered about the scale of the bailout fund, where the money's going to come from, what the nature of the bank capitalization's going to be. and fundamentally, where's the
growth and job creation going to come from the euro zone? i think the world is in the most dangerous place it's been in my lifetime because having all our continents not growing at the same time, we've not seen this since the 1930s. >> right, it's terrible. what about the stories coming out of the negotiations that sarkozy told cameron to butt out? any truth to that? >> i think it's absolutely true. but it's one of those moments where it worked equally well for both domestic audiences. i think the french president likes to be seen and the british prime minister likes to come back saying, well, so what? it reflects a deeper issue here, which is that hugely affects us. we're not in the eurozone, which is very important for britain. if we'd been in this euro, it would be a catastrophe for us. but it also matters a lot to us. and we're not quite at the table in all of the big meetings. a problem for britain, a problem
for america too. >> it appears at the table, perhaps the driving force in whatever settlement that was agreed upon was angela merkel in germany. is there any sense of resentment or fear of germany's growing role in the european economy? >> i think the -- i think it was germany went into the euro. they chose to go into the euro. to be fair, at the time they said this could only work if there's proper burden sharing, proper responsibility from other countries, and in italy, for example, there's not been a grip on their budget. but what we've seen in the last few months is a brinkmanship where germany has been saying, until you sort out your houses in other parts of europe, we won't stand behind you. you can't do that, you've got to have your central bank, your big country saying we're all in together and we're going to stand together. and part of the market worry has been around italian sovereign debt. if there's a doubt about whether
in the end that's going to be guaranteed by the collectors, that's catastrophic economically. greece is small, italy is huge, and you can't have an italian debt crisis, which is sort of left unaddressed. so i think there's a sense that individual national politics in germany and france has been put before what needs to be done for the collective. and you can do that if you are having a discussion about tax rates. but if you're talking about the euro, the currency, you can't have that doubt. and that is what's been so dangerous. >> ed, we have the reverend al sharpton from washington. >> we call him reverend 1%. >> yes, he has a question for you. >> one plus 98. anyway, what i wanted to ask -- i understand how they're trying to reduce the debt with the banks to bailout greece or to keep the bailout going. but as you say, they must work through the details. if they come with a solution in
the details, they don't deal with the potential problems with italy and spain and other countries. will that stabilize enough for the markets to be more secure here? i mean, do you have to answer the long-term problem in the euro zone? or can you just deal with this immediate problem of greece? >> i think you have to do two things simultaneously. you have to say in a single currency, we all stand together and we'll do what it takes to protect each other. the federal reserve would do that for any market in america. the ecb must do that for europe. but you've also got to say, we've all got to put our houses in order. and if there's a doubt, then the markets will not be confident. fundamentally, it goes back to this, if we have a recession or slow growth in the euro zone next year, you combine that america not growing in the way strongly -- >> a possible china bubble, which would be catastrophic. >> potentially.
>> what happens to our deficits? they go down, they go up. there must be a plan for growth and jobs for the world and everybody's got to play their part in that. >> how is david cameron's austerity plan working? >> we discussed this when you were over for the royal wedding. >> and it was growing at the time at .5%, maybe 1%. in fact, when we were there, we saw that it was starting to grow just a tad, but it's slowed down again. >> we have unemployment in our country rising, in a debate now whether we need to recalibrate. we've got to get our deficit down, but it needs to be in a steady balanced way, if you've not got growth and unemployment's going up, if you've got fewer people paying tax more on benefits, that makes your deficit problem worse. and if youth unemployment is rising as it is in britain, there's a long-term challenge there, as well. what the world needs is, balanced plans on deficit reduction, and you can't duck that. but we also need a growth plan
for britain, for america, for the euro. and i think sometimes our debates, and i see this in america, as well. some people say the deficit's a priority, others say, no, you've got to sort out growth and jobs. i said on your practiceogram in spring, you've got to do both. where is the energy to get your deficit down? where does it come from? and that's our problem. >> thank you so much, ed balls, good to have you on the show. >> pleasure to be here. when we come back, an exclusive first look at the cover of "time" magazine. more "morning joe" when we return. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪
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hey, with us now, we've got "time" magazine managing editor rich stingell. >> you put my girlfriend on the cover. >> i didn't even know, joe. >> you haven't been paying attention. >> the cover is hillary clinton and the rise of smart power. i went with the secretary of state last week on her trip. >> that's a great picture. >> to libyan, afghanistan, and pakistan, and it was a fantastic trip. where can you go to these three countries in four days? you can't do that with anybody
else except the secretary of state. and the story by our diplomatic correspondent is about how she is maneuvering in this new world. and she's combining traditional hard power of american military, soft power of our economy and ideas, creating something called smart power, which is something we have to do now. and the libya example is an example of america using smart power. i know it's been criticized here and there. that's my favorite picture. >> i love that picture. mika was just showing me the picture. >> that is on the c-17 that we took from malta into tripoli, which was fantastic. a c-17 is like an aircraft carrier. and then when you're flying into these places like into tripoli, it goes down and spirals because to avoid any of those hand held missiles which are all over the place in libya. it was fantastic. >> that is something. mika had called me up this weekend when she was on "meet the press" and said you've got to see hillary clinton.
she's at the top of her game. and in this age when washington politicians seem to be so small and trite, she seems to be one of the last giants left. >> and she is at the top of her game. and she's doing something as a secretary of state that really almost no secretary of state has ever done. because she's both a politician and a diplomat. >> exactly. >> she goes to these places and she does the high level diplomatic meetings where she doesn't say very much and does a town hall with local people. she did a town hall in tripoli, did a town hall in islamabad. she's using those politician skills and the diplomatic skills and creating a whole new language and vocabulary. >> and it's the skills she developed on the campaign trail running for president and then interacting with these world leaders and ending up at the end of a week like that and you were with her in, what? three countries? >> oman, as well. >> she ends up on "meet the press" and answers the questions or bypasses the questions with, i think, supreme ease.
>> and she's -- right. she's very, very fluent in that way. >> she's fluent. >> and she's very, very supportive of the administration and president obama, as well. and i think he's given her leave and room to do all of these things. and because she is a global figure, she kind of creates waves wherever she goes. and one of the things she talked about too is there is a new style of american diplomacy. we used to go around the world and tell countries, here's what your interest is, let us figure out how to help you as opposed to listening to people, which is the politician skill and the country says, look, our interest is this. can you help us get there in some way? can we do something together? so she talks about in the 21st century, partially about convening power, bringing countries together. >> can you give us a sense of how did it happen that she's become a huge fan favorite in the pentagon? >> well, you know, it really comes from when she was a
senator. and when she was a senator, she really took it upon herself to really study the military, to help the military to figure it out. i remember secretary joe klein told me he asked secretary gates, who in the senate understands the military? and gates said, you mean, besides hillary? she has support from those folks who realize she has their best interests at heart. >> she's indicated this is her last political venture, her last political endeavor. if that is true, do you believe that this is allowing her a freedom and a permission slip to do with comfort with ease this rearticulation of america's values and america's diplomacy around the globe? >> i absolutely think so. because in a way, she's not gaming the system for anything. she's trying to do -- to be statesman like. she's trying to achieve the vision of the obama administration and kind of do a reset of our role in the world. and i think that's absolutely essential.
>> she was better -- i think her defense of the administration on sunday was stronger, clearer -- >> yeah. >> and more compelling than i've heard from -- >> from anybody. >> even including the president. >> it was a strong, strong defense of the obama administration. and i would say she did a better job defending the obama administration than barack obama himself. >> the tone was pitch perfect. >> it really was. >> and by the way -- >> what does hillary clinton do, though -- what does hillary clinton do in may of next year? when the president calls her into the white house and says i understand, hillary, you want to retire. but listen, here's the deal. i really need help in pennsylvania. i need help in west virginia, i need help in the states that you beat me by 40 points four years ago. joe would be a great secretary of state and i need you to be my vice president. does hillary clinton say no to that? >> no. here's the answer, no. >> do you really think that scenario can happen or will happen?
i mean the president has said over and over that, you know, he's sticking with joe biden. and -- >> i do think -- >> i think anybody -- anybody who's being asked to do something like that by the president of the united states has to very seriously consider. >> let's ask it in a different way, joe, because we love joe biden. would that be a winning combination in an election that could be very close or could hurt this president? >> i don't know. i mean traditionally, of course -- the vice president doesn't seem to, you know, tip the presidential voting in any which way, but we've never really had that candidate like hillary clinton as vice president before if that were ever to happen. but by the way, she would be incredibly irked that we're even talking about this because she says what she wants to do after finishing up secretary of state is beaches and speeches. >> yeah, lots of luck on that. that's not going to happen for a while. and i think joe biden would actually like being secretary of state. it'd be a nice -- >> he'd be great. >> it's a great job. >> it is amazing.
>> the plane is not so good and her office on the plane is not so great. actually, you can see that picture in there. and she works incredibly hard. >> she works incredibly hard. >> she looks exhausted most of the time. >> working around the clock. >> it's an exhausting job. >> five countries -- >> and that's after running from -- >> in five days. >> not as exhausted as we in the press corps look. >> the new issue is "hillary clinton: the rise of smart power." thank you so much, great issue. >> no doubt. up next, ruth madoff breaks her silence making a blunted mission about what she and bernie madoff attempted to do just weeks after his arrest. we'll be right back with that story. we're america's natural gas
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welcome back to "morning joe." did your hear the story of ruth madoff, doing "60 minutes" this weekend. they released a clip. she's the wife of bernie madoff speaking for the first time since the scandal broke three years ago. talking to "60 minutes" she said that on christmas eve 2008, that's a couple weeks following the arrest of bernie madoff that she and her husband tried to take their own lives. >> i don't know whose idea it was. but we decided to kill ourselves. because it was -- it was so horrendous what was happening. we had terrible phone calls, hate mail, just beyond anything. and i said i can't -- i just can't go on anymore. we took pills, and woke up the next day. it was very impulsive. and i'm glad we woke up. >> she says she's glad they woke
up -- mike. we've been on the air for several minutes now. >> it's okay. >> she said she's glad it didn't work that she attempted suicide. she said it was impulsive. but she sent a package to one of her sons andrew containing family heirlooms and jewelry. and he asked them a couple of years later, why did you send me that package? and she said, my father and i tried to kill ourselves. so it failed. >> that's incredible. another incredible "60 minutes." >> big "60 minutes" this weekend. >> another incredible producing job, directing job by t.j. >> yeah, who didn't tell mike -- >> i'm starting to think he's not that good. >> well -- >> is he here just for the semester? >> it's an internship. >> it's an internship. >> will you tell him to stop talking to me? >> it's an internship for the last 8 1/2 years. >> we almost drove that bus right over the cliff, right there. if barnicle had kept talking. we've got a seven-second delay,
but they pushed the chopper 4 button instead of the seven-second delay. keystone cops, really? what do we have coming up? i see two gentlemen over your shoulder. >> i had the privilege last night of presenting an award to the gentleman on the right there, jake wood, we'll talk to him when we come back. >> and he's got good hair. >> terrific. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the peace of mind of owning a 2011 iihs top safety pick. the all-new volkswagen passat.
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what makes a true gentleman is someone -- a parent who is willing to teach their son that it's great to be tough but perhaps even better to be tender. >> polished shoes and punctuality. and those are fairly important. so if you look today, my shoes -- >> fine shine. >> there's a fine shine. they are polished every day by myself in a fetishistic manner. >> men routinely open doors for women. every time we'd stand at a table until the woman was seated. >> being a gentleman is a way of life. and it's a way of carrying yourself. >> a gentleman cares about the world around him and the people around him more than he cares about himself. >> confident. self-assured. somewhat aggressive without being violent.
at the same time, open the door for me. >> when it's precipitating, i expect to lose my jacket as puddle covering for a woman. on days of heavy precipitation, i will carry a tarpolan to cover open fields of water. anywhere there are women going to be walking. >> robert duvall comes to mind. that's my image. >> good choice. >> he would definitely pull your chair out for you, open the door for you. he would also, if necessary, kick someone's ass, right? >> i think we he would. >> i think he would, too. >> hold on. did matt lauer really say tender yet tough? that's like from a father biff reference from david letterman a decade ago. >> it was a much longer answer. we played a longer version of it last night. those were some of the answers
we got when we went around 30 rock asking, what makes a gentleman. "gq" magazine wanted to find a man that strived better. joining us, jake wood, also with us "gq's" head man. >> thanks. >> that's over the top. >> jake, congratulations again. i had the privilege of presenting you with the award last night. a little bit about your story. ex-marine. served in iraq and afghanistan. >> yep. >> now leading a group called teen rubicon. tell the view bers it. >> it's an organization we started after haiti and essentially we're trying to bring veterans home from iraq and afghanistan and give them a new mission in life. and for us, for team rubicon that mission is continued service in disaster zones. so using all the skills they learned in the military, all the experiences they had overseas and applying them to save lives and help people, you know in their worst times. >> i love the story that kicked
this off. you were sitting at home watching the haiti earthquake and you did and said what? >> it's kind of ironic. i was probably sitting around in my underwear watching msnbc when the news of the earthquake came across the television screen. and i had just recently transitioned out of the marine corps and knew that i had an opportunity to make a difference down there and rallied a group of guys to go down there with me and that's really how it all started. it was more or less an accident. >> what did you see down there? >> it was incredible. we got to port-au-prince about 3 1/2 days after the earthquake. and it was incredible. we were getting into refugee camps and parts of the city that aid had not touched yet and people that were just literally dying in the streets. every single day that we went out into these camps we were quite often the first medical responders they'd seen at that point. >> chris, we were in a room trying to decide who the winner would be, and it was tough. there were a lot of apples and
poerg oranges. you had leaders in education. you had guys like jake. what was the decision like for you and what an incredible group of guys to choose from. >> it was such a great group of diverse gentlemen doing great things. you had education, disaster relief, you had people who were doing great work in africa. and i think, you know, as you'd agree, jake just stood a little taller than the rest, literally as well. >> it was very difficult, though. can you just lay out what exactly you guys were looking for, why you did this? >> we opened this application process to guys who were doing good work. we have education, conservation and we have disaster relief. and i think when we look for what's a guy who is going to be a better man, better world, we're looking for the kind of selflessness we saw in jake. that's going to touch other people and make the world a better place by using what they have and what they bring to the
table. it takes a great example. >> so the definition of gentleman changes through the -- through the decades, through the years. what is a gentleman today in 2011 in a time of austerity and a time of suffering. what is a gentleman? >> the way our magazine would define it is someone who has a sense of confidence, a sense of purpose both. so you can look good and you can also want to be smart. i think that's a biding principle of the magazine. >> now if you can't look good, like me, can you still do things for the world? positive for the world? >> to a point. joe, we'll -- >> i'm looking at his hair. it's just never going to happen. >> i like what you're doing. it's working. it looks good. >> you look fine. you're okay. >> but has the definition -- >> this is classic gq. >> no socks, no -- >> yeah, no socks. the jeans.
looking good. and the horn rimmed glasses. very good. >> the calculated age watch band. how has the definition of gentleman changed through the years? >> i think there's an evolving yard stick on what we expect out of men. and i think even as you said, robert duvall is a very different character than some of the men we hold up today. yet there's a timelessness to it. robert duvall can be this iconic gentleman. we look at our man of the year which will be the december issue. we look at lots of different guys and different generations and different walks of life. yet they're all gentlemen. >> and it's about giving back. will, a decade ago when we looked -- i remember when we went to the movie "night at the roxsbury." >> that's going to come back. we keep doing it. >> we're going to stay right where we are. >> they'll come back to us. team rubicon, right now you said
last night on stage in turkey. you were in joplin, missouri. it seems like wherever disaster breaks out you find it. >> we're on standby for whatever the world throws our way. we have a whole host of veterans waiting for a new mission and we're going to give it to them. >> thanks, chris, for letting me be a part of it. still ahead here on "morning joe," walter isaacson takes us inside his new steve jobs biography. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. now this...will work.
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they were there for about two weeks. things were pretty much peaceful during that period. and then police saw the situation deteriorating in terms of a public safety threat. they saw health conditions getting bad so they decided to get rid of those protesters to tell them to disband. >> so the city was concerned about a public safety threat. so they did this. listen, oakland. i know you want to keep the peace while respecting people's right to assemble, but it's hard to watch your reaction to this group of protesters with the teargas when every sunday you host an occupation of these folks. the mad max reenactors club. because believe me.
they start peai ipeeing public sooner than those other protesters. back with auns set are mike barnacle and harold ford jr. a lot going on. we're going to start with occupy wall street. >> we will really quickly before we do that. looks like europe may be drawing closer to a solution. there's angela merkel who has really been at the center of european politics and finance, mika, over the past six months or so. a woman that barely beat gerard schroeder maybe five, six years ago. i forget the exact year that she won. but just barely won. barely got into office and it's amazing how she has become the most powerful person in europe. >> yeah. >> no doubt about it. >> well, let's start here. let's start in downtown oakland. tuesday night, this was the scene there. take a look.
that's new video posted on youtube of riot police firing teargas canisters on demonstrators. police officials say they responded only after being hit by rocks and other objects. but one man, a 24-year-old marine and iraq war vet, scott olsen who you can see in this video. i think right there. falling to the ground. he was critically injured after being struck in the head by a falling object. other protesters rushed to his aid. one of the police officers tossed a flash bang device temporarily breaking up the crowd. that was attempting to move olsen away from danger, chaos, obviously. protesters were eventually able to remove olsen from the scene. he's now hospitalized in critical condition with a
fractured skull. it is still unknown what type of object struck the man but protesters are saying it was a canister of teargas fired by riot police. oakland police chief howard jordan said in a press conference that the injury would be investigated and looked into as if it was a fatal police shooting. >> you know what you are watching there? a police riot. a police riot. oakland -- the oakland police department has had a series of problems over the last ten years. and that was a police riot we were just watching. >> and, by the way, you've had protests across the country. none have broken out like that. when i first saw the teargas images yesterday morning i first thought -- first i thought how stupid it was. we didn't really understand the extent of the brutality until now, but you just sat there, why did they do that? was it really necessary to fire the teargas?
and create much more difficult scene. which is exactly what they've done. >> created hysteria for no reason. >> this is the police we're talking about? i'm going to hold back. >> these people are protesting about jobs and their incomes. they have every right to. why the police would engage themselves this way, i -- >> i'd wait. let's go to new york. last night protesters poured into the streets in an act of solidarity with the occupy oakland protesters marching through the financial district chanting we are the 99%. so here we go. this is the backdrop to, of course, the debate in washington where they are working on trying to get some sort of agreement in the debt supercommittee. you want to go there? >> we can go there in a minute. i'm just curious. willie, what are your thoughts of the overreaction by the oakland police and what it means for the bigger movement? >> i'm always careful to hear the whole story first. want to know what happened. but to me using teargas on peaceful demonstrations is
pretty unconscionable. again, the police, we don't know the circumstances, but if you can't contain a group of young kids protesting about jobs by other means, you might want to re-evaluate your police work. >> well, that's the thing. it's just -- it seems such a massive overreaction. and so unnecessary. and you saw it happen with new york where they had a deadline to clear out the park, to clean it up for sanitation purposes and then go back in. and the protesters pushed back. and i think bloomberg and the other people in the city were smart enough to say, okay. we need to be pragmatic. we need to yield. we need to avoid confrontation. and let this play itself out. that didn't happen in oakland. mike you say there's a history of this in oakland, huh? >> they have had several incidents, including a couple of fatal shootings that were questionable. police shootings. it's not something new with the oakland police department. some police departments,
obviously in this country can handle these things better than others. new york city police department is probably the best in the world at stuff like this. >> yeah. >> and there's a way to do it. you drop back. form a perimeter line and give the crowd a sense of how far they can go. but to engage a crowd as willie pointed out of what appear to be largely young people, you know, with teargas and firing teargas canisters which are lethal objects is questionable. >> and even after that -- >> were there any reports of damages that the protesters caused? i'm trying to figure out what provoked -- >> police say they were provoked by objects being thrown at them. but a few thrown bottles -- >> that said -- >> and again to make the situation even worse, this 24-year-old vet who's lying in the street bleeding from the head with a fractured skull now in critical condition. as he's lying there, there's some young people that go over to try to help him out, and the
police -- it's not like the police are firing from 300 yards away. they are ten feet away. and they obviously see that they are going out to help this young kid out. and what do they do? they throw a flash bomb to disperse them. i am with you, willie. a lot of times people jump to conclusions without knowing the full story and the police always seem to be the first ones to be pushed around and kicked around when something -- when you have a story show up on the pages of a newspaper. the burden is always on the police department. but in this case, this just seems so egregious. it seems like an egregious use of force. >> what mike bloomberg and ray kelly have done is engage the protesters. they talk to the protesters. they say you respect us. we'll respect you. you can have that park. they wanted to go in and clean it out. they said we're not leaving. bloomberg said, okay, but i need you not to do this. they've worked together. there have been small incidents but by and large it's been peaceful. it's been going on for a month
in new york. let's go on, mika. you have a story in washington. you know, it's just crazy how washington seems so disconnected. we're going to read a story about washington. they seem so disconnected from the pain of tens of millions of americans who are out of work. >> and disconnected from, i think, the battle cry or the anger of the people in these protests which i think we know at this point they want to be heard and they will be heard. one way or another, we cannot mock them, and washington should take them very seriously for whatever it's worth. with the deadline fast approaching for the so-called supercommittee to submit a plan to cut the nation's debt, the committee's democratic members yesterday submitted their first proposal. the plan offered by the senate finance chairman max baucus goes beyond the group's $1.2 trillion mandate, reportedly seeking $2.5 trillion to $3 trillion in budget cuts over ten years.
up to $500 billion in medicare cuts. and more than $1 trillion in new tax revenues. according to one source, more than 50% of the plan's deficit reduction would come from tax increases. an idea that will likely doom the proposal as republicans have said they will not accept such increases. democrats say their ideas were inspired by negotiations that had taken place between president obama and house speaker john boehner this summer. speaking yesterday, boehner noted the difficulty in achieving what he calls, quote, fiscal sanity in washington. >> and i can tell you that these 12 members, democrats and republicans, have continued to work very diligently trying to come to some agreement. now i can just say that, you know, having been through these discussions with the president all year and the senate leadership all year, the reluctance to do what we know has to be done continues to mystify me.
this is not rocket science. >> boehner added entitlement changes are key to getting the deficit under control. the supercommittee has until november 23rd to reach an agreement. it does look like there are those cuts in there. it's hard to know the framework. >> you don't know the framework. you never know harold ford whether the cuts are real. you don't know what form the tax increases take on. i do hope, though, that the tax increases that -- the increase in tax revenue coming to washington, d.c., has to do with tax reform. because that's not a deal killer. you can raise more taxes by reforming taxes without increasing the top marginal rates which, as we know, would doom any deal. bring more revenue to washington but close the loopholes. maybe that's what max baucus and the other democrats are talking about doing. let us hope. >> the fact they've been largely out of sight, this show has been successful, as always in getting the real opinion leaders on.
you had toomey on talking about this. they've been out of the limelight or out of the spotlight is probably a positive thing for the committee. the devil is in the details, as always, but for them to actually present a plan less than a month before it's due is a positive thing for the congress. one of the things i hope as we talk about occupy wall street and the obvious awful things that have happened in oakland. if you look at the overall movement, this is a set of issues that perhaps occupy wall street can rally around. what i've been unclear about with the move is legislative proposals. i agree with the massive income inequality and the jobs issues but you have a set of legislative proposals that maybe even in the president's jobs plan. perhaps this is a set of areas that occupy wall street, some of its supporters can urge members of congress to -- >> let me ask quickly. i don't know what everybody else thinks occupy wall street stands for. i've heard a lot of people say there aren't specifics.
but i just want to go around the table really quickly and ask people what they think it stands for because, for me it seems pretty simple clear-cut. the big idea is income disparity between the rich and the poor. and i think that's a big enough idea. a lot of people have been talking about it recently. but that seems to be the big idea. >> i would say it's the income disparity and the lack of mobility and the unemployment crisis all wrapped up in one and coming out in the form of major resentment. >> mike, what do you think? >> i think it stands for the rather vague but actually real idea that is throughout in this country that the system, our capitalist system no longer works for the majority of working people. that their incomes have remained stagnant over a decade of 10 to 12 years. surrounded by gross, gross commercialism. increasingly high executive salaries and they know that large parts of a life that they
thought was once within reach seem to be totally out of reach to them now. >> not only within reach. it was expected. this was an entitlement we had developed. >> in addition to the capitalist system not working it's the government system not working because of the capitalist system. if you go down there and talk to them, they feel like their politicians are bought and sold and while they project the image we're out there fighting for you that they are just protecting themselves or protecting their jobs and protecting the big donors who give them money. that's one of the things you hear a lot. >> you talk about the big salaries. it's amazing back in the '60s, '70s, maybe even early '80s. if you were running one of the biggest corporations that maybe employed tens of thousands of people you maid $2 million or $3 million. i knew a guy in his late 20s that worked at a hedge fund and i was talking to him and asking him how he was doing and he said, well, he was upset because he wasn't making the money -- this was in the late '90s, that some of his friends were making. and i said how much are you
making? he said, probably $2 million or $3 million this year. and he left that hedge fund and went to a more boutique hedge fund because he wanted to make more money because he felt he was being left behind. and i sat there thinking this week about that conversation i had. maybe it was five, six, seven, eight years ago. i thought this kid is getting paid the same that the top ceos in america were making 15, 20, 30 years ago. now if you destroy a company and your decisions end up costing tens of thousands of people jobs, you get a $150 million golden parachute. it is so skewed, it is perverse. >> it's also off of willie's comments, at the end of the day occupy wall street, a large part of it, i really feel is about something that you two guys know more about than any of us here. and it is the sense that the system is rigged. the fix is in in washington for
people with big money. you have a -- you are a constituency that is listened to in washington. some guy making $23 an hour on the line, he has no club in washington. the fix is in. >> that guy used to have power with the unions. and he used to have power back when 20%, 25% of americans were members of unions in the private sector. when you have 7% of americans, only 7% of americans in a union in the private sector, that voice is not going to be heard. now the public sector unions are still very powerful. but you are talking about the guy making $20, $23 on the line. there just isn't the power and the force in washington to represent that person which leads to a big -- i mean a bigger problem. what can we do about this? there's nothing we can do. i disagree. i disagree. and this isn't class warfare.
i'm not talking about soaking the rich. but our entire tax system over the past 30 years has been geared towards helping rich people get richer much more quickly, creating exotic financial instruments on wall street. the best and the brightest 40 years ago used to be doctors. 20 years ago used to go fix software. but over the past 20 years, the best and brightest have gone to wall street to create instruments that do nothing to build main street. we're legislate wall street get rich while main street is withering. we can adjust our tax policy not to be punitive but to encourage investment on main street. investment in manufacturing. investment in middle america to rebuild the working class. >> since 1984, our debt in this country, corporate, personal and government, has grown $40 trillion. before 1994, our national savings rate hovered between 8% and 10% between world war ii and re-election of ronald reagan. since that time that savings
rate has come down and dipped into negativity in the '90s and early 2000s. there is no doubt the gross excesses at the top of the economy, you've shown the numbers. you had economists on. the top 1% have seen incomes grow about 275% over the last 30 years. other income categories, particularly those in the midwhole make up the majority of the country have only seen 10% to 15% increases. mike's point, i think, is the most important in all of this. the challenge we face and really the over -- underlying message coming out of occupy wall street is people don't believe that they can attain a certain income level or certain mobility anymore. when you lose that you lose america. >> coming up next, walter isaacson takes us inside his dozens of interviews with steve jobs living up to his blockbuster biography about the late former apple ceo. and the new yorkers ken auletta also joins the table.
in first to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> not the most picture perfect of days out there. snow in areas out west and dealing with rain ecold conditions in the east. here's the photos from denver yesterday. six inches of snow in denver itself. the mountains picked up as much as one to two feet. looks kind of pretty but it won't be around long. we'll melt it as we go throughout the weekend and then back to normal out west. currently the snow is falling on interstate 40 outside of amarillo, texas. even texas getting into a little snow. snowing last night just outside of albuquerque. all that wet weather is headed for oklahoma city and dallas today. it's a damp kind of dreary morning from boft ton hartford, providenc providence. the rain has yet to get into the d.c. area. everybody carry the umbrella today and be prepared for slight delays. maybe see a little snow in the higher elevations of new england as we go throughout the night tonight. and the forecast in the southeast looks good today but wet weather will head that way for your friday.
d.c. is holding on for dear life. rain on the way this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman.
i was the first in line to buy the big new steve jobs biography that came out just yesterday. but now that i have it, i mean, this is no disrespect to mr. jobs, but it is a huge disappointment. look. nothing. nothing. look. you turn it upside down, it doesn't reorder. it just stays. i can't find where to put my
headphones in. tell me about steve jobs. where is the nearest church or camera store? nothing. thanks, at&t. >> you know what, that's pretty funny. good old-fashioned book sometimes doesn't hurt anybody. joining us, writer and biographer walter isaacson. out now with his much-anticipated biography. also writer for the new yorker, ken auletta. >> walter, a remarkable book. a remarkable week. let's talk, though. something as a guy that's always loved music, that's always been inspired by music. and whenever i need to figure out what to do, i don't call a meeting. i put on my ear phones and i walk. this is music inspired steve jobs in a remarkable way. more than technology. talk about that. >> first of all, dylan is the soundtrack of his life. he said the reason we were able
to make the ipod and other companies weren't is because i'm passionate and we're passionate about music. i asked him at one point recently before he died to show me the music on his ipad 2 that he has just transferred. and we went through everything from the beatles, of course, every beatles song and dillon and then he did "strawberry fields forever" which is the bootleg tapes he has of strawberry fields where they go through about 15 variations. and you hear lennon rewinding and changing and hitting the wrong chord and mccartney pushing back on him. said this is exactly the way we work at apple. and i've used these bootlegs of strawberry fields as our management technique of constantly perfecting it and being able to rewind and start all over when you don't think you have it right. >> so management by the beatles. >> right. exactly. and one of the things is he couldn't get the beatles on itunes or anything because they've been in lawsuit since 1977 when they call it apple
computer and apple core is the beatle's label. they get sued and make a deal early on which is that apple computer will not do music. and the beatles promise not to make computers. well, the beatles kept the deal. none of them made computers but apple keeps moving into the music business. every time they do it they got to -- they finally right at the end of steve's life it got totally revolsolved. the beatles came on itunes store. >> he went to india, liked the beatles. a guy who dropped acid, liked the beatles and said bill gates would have been a better ceo if he, too had dropped acid. but it was far from fun and games inside apple. >> part of what steve's personality is the two sides. sort of the counterculture, you know, hippie, poetic mystical side and the hard-nose strong business and engineering side. the connection of that
creativity and poetry to the technology is what apple and steve has always been about, and that comes from sort of the trips to india, the counterculture lifestyle he started with. >> and there's a parallel here in a sense, i think, with einstein who when you wrote your einstein biography said there may have been other scientists whose minds may have been greater than einstein's, but he saw things differently. he imagined things. he visualized things. he stepped out of where he was, and allowed him to see the world differently. >> that is a really good point which people haven't picked up on before which is this notion of think different. and why -- einstein, obviously, is a truly great genius in a different quantum orbit than even steve jobs' biggest fan boys would admit. however, einstein wasn't necessarily the smart nest terms of mental processing power of
physicists at his time. he couldn't even get a job at a university. he was a patent clerk. david hilbert does general relativity, but none of them thought out of the box and thought differently and said this means everything is different. it means time is not absolute. it means the fabric of space is bent. this is what steve jobs did was not be smarter than bill gates because sort of step back and think different. >> he had a personal side that could be dark. some tough decisions he's made in his life. some would say very difficult for women, the women in his life, the daughter in his life at times. not a pretty picture. when you are writing this book, i haven't read it yet, i can't wait, do you make the case that you can't have the crazy brilliant without the dark side, or how do you characterize some of the weaker points of his personality, some of which are very weak? >> well, he makes the point that this is just who i am. he said, you know you can try
some velvet-gloved way of treating all your colleagues and always being kind and polite, but for me if you want to make a dent in the universe it doesn't help to be wearing velvet gloves. i've got to be brutally honest. >> so there is a case there? >> yeah, he made the case of, a, it's who i am and, b, i'm stopping what's called the bozo explosion that happens at other companies because i'm brutally honest. >> so it's the privacy admission to his success. >> well, the price of admission to apple and being around him is i get to tell you you're full of it. you get to tell me i'm full of it and we're brutally honest. when it comes to the family and to his professional colleagues, you also have to look at the results. in the end he's got a team of loyal "a" players at apple who are not leaving the way they do at every other company. they stick around. secondly, with his family, all four of his children close to him by the end, with him when
he's ill. loving wife of more than 20 years. his sister the novelist mona simpson. you have to look at the arc of the narrative. even though he can be prickly, he inspires more love. >> having read the book you portray him as both a genius and a jerk. and i wond ber about the jerk part. forget being a jerk with his friends and family at times, could he have been as successful as he was at apple thinking different out of the box, as you said earlier, had he not been a jerk and be willing to be perceived as a jerk? >> i think so. that's not who he was. that's not the biography i was writing. i actually think that he could have been nicer. he didn't have to be a jerk. you probably would have gotten 99% of what you needed to do. but i didn't write this book as a how-to guide of a saint you are supposed to emulate.
i just wrote about the guy who happened to be in front of me and we were talking and this is his way of doing it. >> i'm curious how this book came to be. surely there was a line benefit 10,000 writers who wanted to write the steve jobs biography. >> i was one of them. >> did you have a relationship with him? how did you convince him you were the guy that could best tell his story? >> i met him when he came pitching the original macintosh which is on the back cover of the book. in a lotus position with the mac. and i found him. he was then even a bit impetulant. he was compelling. i came away liking him. over the years we'd keep in touch especially if he had a new product out. we'd be best friends for a day when he would pitch me that, why the product should be on the cover of "time." in the summer of 2004, ken was doing a book about people in silicon valley.
i was talking to him. he said why don't you do my biography. >> wow. >> it was a casual conversation. it wasn't, you know, please do it. and i thought, man, this guy is my age. he's got another 20, 30 years. up and down career. i said, sure, some day in a couple of decades when you retire. but we kept that bouncing back and forth. finally he and his wife in 2009 said, if you are going to do it, do it now. and that's when i realized, okay, the cancer could be catching up with him. >> did they tell you explicitly how sick he was? we better start writing this now? did you know things that investors didn't know? >> in 2009 when i was told, he had just had a liver transplant and was on medical leave. i'm a little thick. it took me until an official medical leave was declared that, oh, i get it. >> they said if you are going to do the book you better do it now. >> let's bring mark barnacle into the conversation. he's mentioned in the book i'm told. >> walter, in reading the book,
i was struck by a couple of things. obviously, steve jobs, this huge intellect. this great confidence to come up with these products. no focus groups. this is the product. people will like it because i like it. i'm going to give it to the public. they'll buy it. in the hours of conversations you had with him, as he's doing all of this, he's surrounded in his past by an element of dysfunction in terms of his family life. did it ever occur to you when you were speak with him during the hours of conversation that he might be a bit bipolar? >> i'm not a psychologist or psychoanalyst. i think that his psychology that i saw was that he could deeply, emotionally connect with people. and that's why he could make the emotional connection in his products. and that's why he was sometimes a bit tough to be with. it wasn't like he was just ignoring people or didn't get them or was sort of on the edge of the asberger syndrome. this was a guy who knew your
deepest thoughts, your vulnerabilities, your desires. this is why he didn't need focus groups either. the early apple offsights retreats and the 1980s. the first thing somebody says of one of them is, well, should we be doing focus groups? and he would say, how do people know what they want until we tell them what they want. henry ford did focus groups they would have said a faster horse. we have to read what's on the page before they get to the page. and i think that ability to make emotional connections, that ability to really understand what people are thinking, you see that in his personal life, his professional life. you see it at apple. >> talking about his wife. >> his wife is sort of a symbol of the -- i mean, there's the epitome of both sides of steve jobs. for a lot of his life when he has that poetic, mystical, hippieish side, alternative way of looking at things. and then he's got the solid,
sensible business side. well, like everything in his life, they eventually all merge. they come together. and it's almost, you know, magical that it comes together in this one person. he falls madly in love with 21 years ago who has been at goldman sachs, been at stanford business school but also lived in florence. she's also run a company for organic and healthy meals. so she embodies all aspects of steve's mysterious, romantic, sentimental side but also his sensible, solid business-like side. >> when did it all come together for steve jobs as far as apple goes? >> second go around. he was kicked out of apple in 1985. >> what moment, though, after he came back? was it the second he put up the think different commercial? did he already know where he wanted to go when he came back? in 2001 with the ipod? when was it. >> first, he comes back and he says show me the products.
and there are about 37 different macintoshs. the 9600, 9500. now 3200, whatever it is. he said explain what all of these computers are. well, in order to satisfy cno retailers, we keep making new models. he finally says focus and puts a white board up. he says we're going to make four computers. laptop, desk top, home, professional. four computers, that's it. focus. get rid of everything else. so that puts apple on track for focus. second thing is he writes that manifesto. think different. and it's not a product ad. it is a manifesto for the company. here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels. and it ends with, those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do. and that is sort of sets apple as a rebel computer company. we're not just going to be a computer company.
we're going to become a hub for all your digital devices. and that's where ipod, iphone, ipad come in. >> wow. >> you say in the book, walter, something. you say it's his success is often misunderstood. people say the key thing for him was when he was fired from apple the first time. you say in the book the key thing for him was failing with products. >> correct. >> explain that. >> when he gets fired at apple in '85 it's like he's being abandoned. people say that's what matured him. what matured him is the wilderness years at nex computer. he indulges all of his instincts, good and bad. the nex computer is a perfect computer with exact 90 degrees. you have to have special molds to get it out. he pays $100,000 just for that
logo. he builds a factory with pristine white walls. every single perfectionist instinct of steve jobs is poured into the nex computer. it becomes a greater computer that nobody buys because it's way overpriced and way late. then he realizes the maxims he used to say at the old apple was, number one, don't compromise. you don't need to compromise your passion for perfection. but every now and then you have to make it so that you can have a real consumer product. that is what helped him succeed the second time around. >>you so much. great to see you again. the biography of steve jobs. up next, stock futures surge on a eurozone deal. i want healthy skin for life.
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let's get a check on business before the ball with cnbc's melissa francis. live at cnbc headquarters. melissa, looks like a deal in europe. >> we did get a deal in europe. markets are really happy about that overnight. we're seeing futures soar. could be really positive day. let's look at some of the details of that deal. we're seeing a 50% write down in greek debt. everybody in the greek government owes debt to has agreed to take half of that. the banks have to raise new
capital. and there's a lot of questions this morning about where exactly that capital is going to come from. another part of it is expansion of the eurozone bailout fund. something like $1 trillion to $1.4 trillion. everyone is disputing the numbers this morning. but it's also going to ensure future greek debt. this answers a lot of questions. it raises a lot of questions. there's a new target on the debt to gdp ratio for greece. and that basically means they have to grow going forward. and that's one of the big concerns is that now that we have a deal in place, has it taken too long? is there going to be a recession in europe? and the other problem is a problem of sentiment. i heard someone say yesterday that the problem with a lot of these deals is you are robbing from the poor in the rich countries like germany to pay the rich in the poor countries like italy and you are already hearing germans say i work really hard. i pay my taxes. and now my money is going to go to these other countries, you know, where people have been evading taxes, where politicians have their hand in the cookie jar. so they are having a problem.
>> they don't make the tough choices in greece over a generation. >> exactly. >> so germans are having to pay for that as well as others across europe. what does this mean for america? what does it mean to people tuning in to keep asking, why do they keep talking about greece? >> it means that it's one less worry for us. the focus comes back to the fiscal problems here at home that once again, you know, the world is going to kind of be looking at the u.s. to clean up its own balance sheet. we also got a gdp number this morning really positive. we saw growth in the third quarter at 2.5%. that had been what was expect bud that's way better than what we saw last quarter. it's about double that. good day for wall street. good day for the economy. probably won't last, though, right, joe? i hate to -- no, i didn't say that. have a great day, you guys. >> melissa francis, thanks very much. up next, burgers for breakfast? >> bring it on. >> why over 60 schools in florida are serving lunch at
schools in florida before 10:00 a.m. ♪ [ mrs. davis ] i want to find a way to break through. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make education a little more personal. so every student feels like her only student.
you know what else is early? medicare open enrollment. now through december 7th. can i stick with my old medicare plan? sure! or find a new plan with better coverage, less cost, or both. medicare plans give you free cancer screenings and wellness visits and 50% off on brand-name prescriptions when you're in the doughnut hole. it's part of the healthcare law. so it's time to look, compare...
and choose the right plan for you. learn more at 1-800-medicare or medicare.gov. how early is too early for school lunch? an article in the "orlando sentinel" this week is grabbing national attention after showing that dozens of florida schools are serving lunch as early as 9:30 in the morning. >> why is that? >> my daughter has lunch really early. >> what time does he have lunch? in the 10:00 hour. >> are you serious? >> yes. >> kerry sanders has the story. >> reporter: florida ninth grader aiden is your typical teen dealing with the challenges of school. adding to his struggles this year is an unconventional early lunch. for mullen and other students at winter park ninth grade center, his lunch on some days starts as early as 9:30 in the morning.
>> i think they could definitely make it so we have lunch later in the day and not at breakfast time. >> when i was growing up, we never heard of such a thing. a lunch hour that would start at 9:30 or even 10:30. >> school officials say the early lunch is needed because this generation of students starts its days so much earlier. classes begin just after 7:00 in the morning. >> our students started getting on the bus at 5:30 until about 6:40. so it's actually over 2 1/2 hours, almost three hours before some of them eat. >> and winter park is not the only school serving lunch before some have eaten breakfast. even though there's a federal mandate that schools serve lunch between 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m., this year in florida alone, at least 60 schools have been granted waivers to start lunch between 8:30 and 9:30 in the morning. while a penn state study from five years ago linked early school lunches to unhealthy eating, county nutritionists
believe they have the students' best interests in mind. >> as a nutritionist you have to work around people's schedules. we know they are up at 5:30, 6:00. they may or may not have breakfast. if they are eating at 10:00, that may be the first meal of the day. >> reporter: because he's a diabetic and takes medication on 12-hour intervals, aiden is allowed to eat lunch in between classes closer to the noon hour. but he still joins his friends in the cafeteria as they eat their hamburgers and corn dogs at a time when most are still eating cereal. >> definitely all my friends are complaining about having to eat at breakfast time. it shouldn't be like that. >> you and eye. >> something is wrong. >> we eat corn dogs at 9:30 every morning, but for kids -- >>i why not give them a snack? >> why are kids going to school so much earlier? that's a problem in florida. kerry sanders reporting. up next, the best of late night.
at adt, we get financing from ge capital. but they also go beyond banking. we installed a ge fleet monitoring system. it tracks every vehicle in their fleet. it cuts fuel use. koch: it enhances customer service. it's pretty amazing when people who loan you money also show you how to save it. not just money, knowledge. it's so much information, it's like i'm right there in every van in the entire fleet. good day overall. yeah, i'm good. come on in. let's go. wow, this is fantastic. ge capital. they're not just bankers. we're builders. they helped build our business. [ chuckles ] you think that is some information i would have liked to know? i like tacos. you invited eric? i thought eric gave you the creeps. [ phone buzzes ] oh. [ chuckles ] yeah. hey.
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welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. what i learned today was governor chris christie is a hate-filled leader. >> what happened? >> he hates when it's so much easier to love. he texted me to remind me it was 25 years ago that t.j.'s new york mets beat the boston red sox. >> that is hateful. >> and perhaps the bleakest world series known to man. what did you learn? >> hillary clinton, seriously we called it on sunday. "time" magazine's cover. smart power. >> ken, what did you learn? >> i learned a question. why are kids at florida going to school at 6:00 in the morning. >> the heat. it really is. >> what did you learn, mike? >> i learned more politicians should adhere to what steve jobs