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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  February 8, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm PST

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year it stars curt cameron, chuck worldry of love connection fame and all of the republican presidential doenders including mitt romney. it starts storm and it is always amazing. frankly that's going to have to tied everyone over for a while because there are no debates and primaries for a dog's agew. now it is time for the "the last word with lawrence o'donnell" have a great night. how can mitt romney be the republican who can beat president obama if he couldn't beat rick santorum that couldn't be happier that we are finally talking about contraception. something that he knows in his heart is really, really bad even though he claims he's never tried it. >> once again, conservatives have rejected mitt romney. >> it's a horrible, terrible, really bad morning for mitt romney. >> he beat romney in missouri by 30 points. >> you could not have scripted
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better lead lines for the electorate. >> mandating religiously employers to provide health insurance for birth control. >> this is not about mandating something. this is about providing access to something. >> the battle lines have been drawn. >> i think for obama the challenge is the church. >> most americans have no problems with contraceptives, but the catholic church does. >> the government shouldn't force you to do things that you find deeply, morally wrong. >> the catholic church is not backing down. >> these are the outrageous overreaches. >> i can't state what a golden issue this is for rick santorum. >> pushing this as a religious issue. >> i don't think this is a fight they want to have. >> this attack on religion us freedom in our country must not stand and will not stand. >> house speaker john boehner entered the debate over birth control. >> one group of voters is happy with the decision, women's
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rights groups including catholic women. >> catholic women are on the same page as most of the women in this country. >> the catholic church hierarchy is male. >> this is a position that makes the president strong with women voters. >> as an american citizen, who appreciates the fact under this president my uterus is not a preexisting condition, i want him re-elected. >> the political debate over the government requiring catholic institutions to provide contraceptive coverage in the health care plans of their employees is not only continuing. it's getting much hot area enit's a debate that should have never happened. >> bottom line here is that, in a lot of ways, we'd be better off if we had a single-payer health care system where you didn't have employers involved. >> that was peter welsh, making the single most important point of the day of how we got to
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here. the health care bill that president obama signed in to law is a virtually indescribable mess of compromises that included massive government giveaways to the pharmaceutical industry and most importantly to the health insurance industry. the heartless conniving health insurance industries' reward for decades for driving the cost of health care beyond the reach of 50 million people in the country was not government control of the industry's pricing, but rather a government-delivered subsidy to help people buy wildly, over-priced health insurance with no real controls imposed on the price of that health insurance. you watch the saga of the health care bill becoming a law for over a year, right here on this network. night after night you saw a relentless stream of complaints about the compromises the democrats were making in response to the lobbying demands of the pharmaceutical industry
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and the health insurance industry. you watched as it became perfectly reasonable and acceptable and routine to do scribe the bill here on this network as a wind fall for the insurance companies. but the worst compromise of all was made before the democrats wrote the first word of the legislation. they compromised on their ideal solution, single-payer health care for all. in effect, opening medicare for everyone. medicare for all teddy kennedy used to call it. it was his ideal and it was president obama's ideal long before he was candidate for president. >> i happen to be a proponent point of a single-payer universal health care plan. everybody in, nobody out. single-payer health care plan. universal health care plan. that's what i'd like to see. >> five years later, as a candidate for president, then
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senator obama said this about single payer. >> i never said that we should try to go ahead and get single payer. what i said was if i was starting from scratch. if we didn't have a system in which employers typically provided health care i would probably go with a single payer system. >> when president obama and the democrats went to work on health care reform they never once even considered a single-payer solution. the word solution only applies to the single-payer model. anything other than single payer, anything that continues to maintain the agoply of the health insurance companies and the dysfunctional market they have created and manipulate every day is not worthy of the word solution. with a single-payer solution abandoned at the start, the democrats embarked on writing a by the way bill that would continue to sustain and promote the dominance of health insurance company s and continue
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to rely on employers to provide health insurance for their workers. employers should not be in the health insurance business. carmakers should be making cars, not trying to figure out the rigged health insurance market. so, the new health care law did not solve our problems. it simply traded some problems for new problems. the newest problem involves the catholic church. the catholic church, as an institution, running hospitals and schools all around the world, is not confronted by a theological challenge of the kind we're seeing today in any of the other countries where it employs people because those countries do not make the irresponsible mistake of relying on employers to help to pay for their workers' health insurance. this is a uniquely american problem because the american health care system is and
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remains a unique mess. where we now, after three years of the most successful health care reform president we have ever had, now have more people without health insurance in this country than when george w. bush was president. and that is no fault of president obama's. that is the fault of our employer-based private health insurance system. when unemployment goes up in our system, people lose not just their jobs, they lose their health care. in other countries, they justs lose their jobs. those countries think that is bad enough. losing your job and your health care with it is an unrelenting piece of american inhumanity that will be with us forever under the new health care law. the law is frequently and always falsely described as one that
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will achieve universal coverage in this country. everyone will be covered. that is not true. that was never true. in the first draft of the legislation, it very deliberately and consciously left out 30 million people. only in america can you write legislation that leaves out 30 or 25 million people as the law now does and claim you have covered everyone. you have heard in the last couple of days people arguing that it is very important that we make sure all women have contraceptive care, and they are absolutely right. but all women in this country do not now have contraceptive care, and under this bill they never ever will. not all of them. the new health care law makes no attempt to cover all women or all men. more than half of the 25 million people who will be left without
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any health insurance forever are women. they will forever not have any access to contraception other than paying for it at top dollar cost, over the counter, which none of them will be able to afford. they are and will remain throughout this debate the forgotten women of health care reform. joining me now from chicago is president obama's deputy campaign manager stephanie -- thank you for joining me tonight. >> hi, lawrence. >> this bill, as we talked about, trades, as we see it going in to affect in certain ways trades old problems for now problems. i don't think that anyone anticipated this. i certainly didn't see it coming. i want to stipulate at the top here, this country is completely in favor of birth control. members of the catholic church are. i don't know a single catholic,
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not one that ever observed catholic teachings on this matter. rick santorum claims he's the one. if he is he's the one. how did it come to bethat in the discussions in the white house that we ended up at this particular highly politicized intersection that we see now? was the president, in effect, warned this kind of argument would be coming? >> i'm not going to get in to discussions with the president and what he was or wasn't told. how this protection for women came in to being is because the health care law required for the first time ever preventative services for women to be covered by insurance companies. according to, you know, medical experts and scientists, cotra sepgs was a critical piece of those preventative services. so, by law, we had to require insurance companies to cover it with no cost sharing for women no out of pocket costs. in crafting this proposal, special attention was paid to a church exclusion.
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many of these states have the same exclusion. you know, you mentioned at the top that contraception is widely supported by the american people, including catholics. 50% of all americans live in states where this is already required. many of them with the same requirement as the federal government's new requirement. you know, we did talk about it. we thought it was a critical piece of protecting women's health care and we're moving forward as there's been a lot of discussion over the next year and a half by august of 2013 to work with the, not the catholic church, because they are exempted, but with catholic hospitals, other religiously-affiliated institutions where women of all faiths work and who deserve the same protection to see if we can find a way to implement the law in a way that respects their bleefs and addresses their concerns. but at the end of the day, the goal here is for women to get contraception with no out of
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pocket costs. nobody should be locked out of this important care because of costs. >> well, people are locked out of it. what about the 25 million people that are locked out without the benefits of the health care reform bill. >> i'm not sure which women you are talking about. >> you know this, stephanie. you know the bill does not come close to universal coverage. we learn -- >> most of the people we are talking about -- we don't have to get in to a debate on health care reform. it's the law now. northwest of the people you are talking about will have the option to buy affordable health care through these exchanges. if you are an individual it is difficult to buy an insurance policy on the open market that you can afford. because there is no risk pool. that's changing. the state-based places, similar to massachusetts law where it is working people can go in, pull their coverage and buy affordable health care. we are moving toward coverage and making progress. people are already benefitting from this law. the contraception debate, it is
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remarkable that we are debating birth control all these years later. but at the end of the day we're going to make sure women have access to this important coverage with no out of pocket costs. we are will do it in a way where we will try to be respectful. >> we are not debating birth control. there's no debate in this country about birth control. this debate is very, very narrow. i have been trying to find out for two days how many people are affected by this debate. they are the employees of catholic institutions, universities, hospital, that sort of thing and no one has yet come up with a number. i don't know if you have a number. do you know how many people we are talking about, because we're not talking about everyone. >> we're not. many of the employees that work at catholic institutions are already covered many catholic universities already cover it for their employees, many hospitals cover it for employees. >> the question that sparked the debate is should there not be birth control, but should a
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catholic institution -- that you point out some already choose to do it. that's their choice but should the government say they must do it by law. that's all this debate is. these catholic institutions only and you have exempted the churches some the concept of exempting exists in the model. >> right. just to add to the that, there are many laws already on the books in states that already require nonchurch institutions, religiously affiliated institutions to cover this important protection. >> stephanie, if you used any state versions for models of how this one came out? >> many are identical to what we are doing. massachusetts is virtually identical to the exclusion that exists on the federal requirement. new york, california, north carolina. i'm trying to remember them off the top of my head, arizona has a similar exclusion. all of those states are very similar to what the new federal requirement is. many states don't have any
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exclusion at all. so yes we looked at what is going on in the states and we will continue to look at what is going on in the states. it is part of what the next year and a half will be about. how are these institutions dealing with this? >> thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you, lawrence. representative of vice president al gore in bush v gore and the constitutional authority they turn to whenever available. what is the constitutional issue involved here? >> there isn't a constitutional issue involved in this issue. first amendment of the constitution prevents establishment of religion. that is you can't have the government saying you are going to have to follow certain religious believes and it guarantees free exercise. that means everybody is free ito exercise the religion they choose. there isn't anything in the constitution that says an employer, regardless of whether
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you are a church employer or not, isn't subject to the same rules as any other employer. >> minimum wage. >> minimum wage, safe working conditions, workmans compensation, age restrictions. you could have a religion that says we believe that everybody when they are 60 years old ought to go off and contemplate their next life so people shouldn't work after 60. that doesn't give that religion an exemption. >> this is simple labor law. >> this is -- >> labor requires certain conditions in the work place. this is one of those. >> and tax law and workmans comp law. there are all sorts of laws that apply to every employer in this country, and you don't exempt religious employers just because their religion. you are not asking anybody in the catholic church or any other church to do anything other than simply comply with a normal laws that every employer has to
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comply with. >> so the -- when you say the exercise of the religion. if the catholic church's position, which 100% of american catholics ignore and think is ridiculous and they have never respected it and it is manmade invention because contraception is a man made invention of the 20th semplgry. the pill didn't exist. so, if the catholic church says we teach that you should not use this and only rick santorum doesn't, the court would not see it as conflicting with the church's exercises by saying to that same church, as an employer, you have to buy this health insurance policy that includes this clause here? >> no. because, for example, the law wouldn't say to a catholic hospital for example that you have got to do these facts that are contrary to religion. perhaps an abortion or something
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like that. they would, however, say to that hospital you have got to treat your employees consistent with the law. you have to give them workman's compensation. you have to -- >> an example could be -- >> you could have a devout catholic that would say that's okay. i'm a devout catholic. i'm a janitor here you don't have to pay me when i come in ten extra hours and labor law comes in and says. >> you have to pay him and you have to give him health insurance and workmans compensation. >> it sounds like the case would have trouble getting up there. >> i think this case would have trouble gotting to the court. this isn't an election year and people are looking to the election issues. we are sitting in new york right now. new york has had this law. religion isn't threatened.
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the catholic church is doing very well in new york. >> with exemptions. does it have the same exemptions. >> it has the same exemptions as the federal law, that is the kpempg for church employees, not hospital employees. if a catholic church owns a restaurant they are not exempt. if they own a university those employees aren't exempt but if it is a true religious institution those are exempt. >> we had a religious practice, a religious-based practice out lawed in this country, polygamy was outlawed in the 1870s. how did that happen? because it was an exercise of religious practice? >> the constitution has never prohibited congress or the state legislatures from imposing limits that applied to everybody. in other words, you may have religion that believes in sacrificing animals. that doesn't mean you are going
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to get an exemption from the anti-cruelty to animals laws. as long as you have laws that apply across the board and they are reasonable related laws the state has the right to impose those and you don't get a pass just because you form or have a religion that has a sincere belief to the contrary. this is not a question of freedom of religion. nobody is forcing catholics to use contraception. >> if it is in your policy you don't have to use it. you can go full santorum. >> right and the catholic church is able to appeal to the 2% of catholics and say we don't do it. >> david boies thank you for joining me tonight. you have cleared up a lot. coming up, john boehner's response to the contraception controversy. he is ready to introduce a bill to the house of representatives to overrule the president. democratic congresswoman rosa delohr ra will join me. in the rewrite, donald trump tries to say what cabinet position he would like in the romney administration but since
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the federal government has drifted dangerously beyond its constitutional boundaries encroaching on religious freedom in a manner that affects millions of americans and harms some of our nation's most vital institutions. if the president does not reverse the department's attack on religious freedom, then the congress, acting on behalf of the american people, and the constitution, that we're sworn to uphold and defend must. thae the house will approach this matter fairly and deliberately through regular order and appropriate legislative channels. >> that was house speaker john
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boehner today. the republican-led house is already taking action. fred upton of michigan said they will hold a hearing on march 1st abouten on the contraception ruling and he expects kathleen se bail's to testify on how the decision was made. joining me is rosa delora from connecticut. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. it is a delight to be here. i want to talk to a good catholic girl about this. you went to catholic college. >> i went to catholic grade school, high school and college. i went elementary and high school. so, i think you and i both understand exactly where the energy is on both sides of this. i can completely understand what the official catholic objection is. having just heard david boies educate all of us because i
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haven't heard anybody explain the constitutional issue here. this doesn't seem to be one. this seems to be labor law. employers in the country are required to observe the laws related to employment. >> i think david was right. it was crystal clear. this is not a constitutional issue. he was clear and the catholic church is exempt from this effort. and its employees. and most recently there was a supreme court that said they could hire anyone they wanted to. and their employees would not get the benefit of kind of coverage. it is the institutions that employ hundreds of thousands of people from varied faiths and they are not hired on a religious basis. if you take a catholic hospital, you are looking at a catholic hospital is both a provider and an employer.
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on the provision side of this effort, nothing changes. the conscience clause is intact. they don't have to require. they don't have to prescribe. they don't have to use, they don't have to dispense any contracepti contraceptives. but as an employer, they are obligated to offer insurance, an insurance coverage to their employs to give them the opportunity to be able to access these critical health care services for women. >> this is going political very quickly both in the presidential campaign and now obviously in the house of representatives, be a hearing on march 1st. are the democrat, would you say, united on this? this is not something that you actually voted on. this is not language you voted on in the health care reform bill. it is one of though blanks that was left to be filled in by the secretary as legislation frequently does, can sometimes have hundreds of those. now it is coming back in real language that all of the democrats can see.
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is the democratic party in the house comfortable with this? >> i think these are the kinds of issues that people reflect inwardly on and think of their own conscience and where they want to be. you made an interesting point. the health care bill was transformational in terms of women's health. you might recall that some of the same people today are the same people back then who were willing to jettison health care over the issue of abortion. let's focus on this effort. health care bill transformational and the services provided for women. no more discrimination based on pre-existing conditions, whether it be a c-section or domestic violence. no more paying 48% more for health care insurance because just you are a woman. giving that we pass that and it is in law, what health and human services did, they said we're not going to make a decision about that essential benefit pack anl. the institute of medicine, a research effort laid the things
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out, including counseling, screening for cancer, cervical cancer and also contra acceptive services. this is about women's health care services and that's the issue on which we will vote on and that's as it should be. >> before we go, i want to reiterate i'm hoping this congress, at some point, probably not under republican rule, it will never happen but in the future, it will get back to the women left out of this bill. and i want to cite the report, 31 million people are left out. it goes down to 21 million people four years in and then it starts to curve back up. under the billed, it increases up to 23 million. those people, i don't think congress wants to forget. >> i think when stephanie cutter answered your question when you talked about this, it was that people will be able as individuals to go out and purchase insurance on the exchange. >> but this is the cbo is saying
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these are people that won't be able to afford to do that. that's how many will be left out. >> the fact is we now have the opportunity to make sure that most, most everyone in this nation will be covered by health insurance. that was not true a year ago or two years or five year ago. it is 100 years in coming. a good step forward and had good services, preventive care for women as does the new guideline for women it is balanced approach, it makes sense and preserves your religious options as well. >> most people have always been covered but now most of the uninsured, the previous uninsured will be covered. that's true. >> congresswoman rosa delauro, thank you for joining us. rick santorum almost ruined the program. we had to go to the victory speech and bump two of my
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guests. the couple that brought the case that reversed proposition 8 in california. they will join us tonight and donald trump wants a job in the romney cabinet but he doesn't know the name of the job. not that he is undecided he doesn't know the name of the job. i explain it [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. [ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ '80s dance music plays ] [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego.
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you may want to press
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reverse on your dvr and go to the first segment where david boi serks es was explaining the constitutional grounds for what president obama ordered in contraception coverage. i don't know when i have learned more on this show. i wish i could rewrind it and listen to it again. last night was very, very good news it turns out for the obama presidential campaign. mitt romney had a very bad night losing in missouri, minnesota and colorado but you never know that from the speech he gave. sometimes that obliviousness of his comes in handy. or maybe no one had the heart to tell him he lost. we will talk about it next. so, this is delicious okay... is this where we're at now,
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in the spotlight tonight, mitt romney has now won three and lost five. how's that for a front runner? last night he lost every county in missouri and every county in minnesota, every darn county. and rick santorum came out of nowhere and won all three states last night. so rick santorum thanked god and
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then right to church in mckinney, texas. >> i know life begins at conception. it is a fact that life begins at conception. it is not a matter of belief. it's a biological fact. it is a human being at the moment of conception. that child is alive. i can't and i won't check my faith at the door because it motivates me to do things that i believe are best for our country. it motivates me to stand up for those who are the most vulnerable. it motivates me to stand up, not just for the unborn child but for the working guy that doesn't have the kind of job that can support his family. >> joining me now is msnbc political analyst john heilman of "new yorkings inning" who checks his faith and dignity at the door every time he comes to do a segment on this show. have they run out of champagne
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at obama headquarters after the republican election nights. >> they have had to call in for reinforcements. i think that is right. thing that prolongs the republican race and further divides the party rather than unifies it and anything that brings some of the social issues who the floor which is part of what snour is capitalizing on it makes republican party look like it is outside of the main stream and i think they are celebrating that at obama headquarters too. >> romney is in a struggle of what he did and didn't do in massachusetts and the same territory involving contraception provided by catholic institutions. how's he doing with that? >> i'm not sure what he is doing with that. he's done well throughout the campaign. i think what he is planning to do and focused most dlent intently on is how many millions he willen spend in arizona and michigan the next couple of weeks trying to reduce rick
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santorum to rubble the way he has to newt gingrich and perry to rubble before to pave his way to the nomination. >> santorum has done more math. this morning he said he raised a quarter million dollars last night. turns out they raised a million bucks, they say on the internet donations in the last 24 hours. how much more does he need to stay in this thing in a serious way? >> a lot more than that. he's celebrating rightly. he had a good night last night. there is a sense among some republicans he has emerged as the conservative alternative to gingrich. it is not surprising money is flowing in to his coffers. after the next couple of primary and the main caucuses and the washington state caucuses that are early in march we then head to super tuesday and a series of multiprimary events. he will need to do something in these caucuses and primaries before super tuesday to capitalize on his victories last
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night. by the time he gets to super tuesday, the runup to super tuesday he is going to need a many millions of dollars to counteract mitt romney's financial and organizational advantages. >> thank you very much for joining me sglont thank you, lawrence. coming up, donald trump seems to think his endorsement of mitt romney somehow makes him eligible for a position in the romney cabinet. he says he knows the job he wants but doesn't know the name of the job. maes where i come in. someone has to explain it all to donald and that's what i'm going to do next in "the rewrite." the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. someone has to explain it all to donald and that's what i'm going to do next in "the rewrite." ama. someone has to explain it all to donald and that's what i'm going to do next in "the rewrite." tma. someone has to explain it all to donald and that's what i'm going to do next in "the rewrite." wh. someone has to explain it all to donald and that's what i'm going to do next in "the rewrite." 's . someone has to explain it all to donald and that's what i'm going to do next in "the rewrite." let nothing stand in your way. learn more at
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something i'm looking for. if i can do anything to help this country, we have to do something to help the country. we can't keep losing our jobs to other countries. >> have you talked about it with governor romney? >> no, i haven't discussed that, no. >> if he reached out to you, what would your reaction be? >> i think it is early to worry about it. number one he has to get the nomination and then get elected and after that i would be sglb. >> what position would want. >> maybe a position where i would goth negotiate against these countries because they are taking our lunch. >> i know you don't know much about the government stuff so i will help you out. the job you want is u.s. trade representative. i know you have never heard of that, so let me ekts plain. it is a cabinet level position confirmed by the senate. your confirmation hearing will go through the chief of staff, my old job, really, would learn everything there is to know about your.
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your tax returns would be plopped down on my old desk, studied by the committee chairman and any member of the committee who asks to look at them and you have to believe all of the senators would want to look at your tax returns and a variety of staff members who would be asked technical questions about your tax returns by the senators would have to look at them, too. you would be asked in writing about your history of drug use, illegal drug use. and when is the last time you used an illegal drug, if ever. and i know you are feeling a little uncomfortable by now but the confirmation process is uncomfortable for everyone. not everyone in your -- not every little thing in your tax returns becomes public. just the really bad things. the committee can take a very long time to get to your confirmation hearing. if the committee approves your nomination, it goes out to the senate floor, where it can linger for months, sometimes
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over a year. but that's no problem for you because you have got a tv show to keep you busy in the meantime where you pretend to fire people who don't actually work for you. here's the big problem, donald, for you. the job pays, like all cabinet positions, $199,700 and you can't live on that and we all know you are not rich enough to stop working. you're no mitt romney who lives entirely off of his investment income and doesn't have to work a day. you need the couple million that you make on tv to stay afloat. but you don't really have to worry about any of this, donald. you don't have to worry about the confirmation process and risking perjury if you tried to lie to the committee about being a billionaire. because mitt romney would never pick you to negotiate trade deals with the chinese or do anything else for the government or do anything else for the romneys, not even wash their
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cars because romney knows you are a buffoon. an unconfirmable joke, america's biggest loser. he knows that. if gene burdick and william leader had not come up with the phrase "ugly american" for the tight 'ole of their 1958 novel someone would have had to instlaent label for you. relax, donald. tomorrow morning, bright and early you can get back to saying all of the tough-sounding things you like to say about the chinese on twitter and that's as close as you will ever get to negotiating with the chinese. good night, donald. the employee of the month isss... the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high. owning my own business has never been more rewarding.
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we couldn't end the show with rick santorum stepping on the couple in california ra whose case overturned proposition 8. that would be no justice. i couldn't sleep with that happening. i'm glad we are able to do the interview immediately after the show. we will post it on-line. we may use it in tomorrow night's show or probably do both. but it just. it just wouldn't be right for it to be rick santorum getting in the way of the winners of the proposition 8 case in california. can't be allowed to happen. not here. >> that was from last night's very last word, a feature on our blog on the last where i frequently talk about what i wish i had done differently in that night's show. as very bad luck would have it last night, rick santorum's
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victory speech intruded on the last segment of our show where i planned to interview chris perry and sandy steer one of the two couples who filed the historic case that overturned california's proposition 8 yesterday, the law that bans same-sex marriage in california. tonight, we have more good news on the marriage equality front, just three hours ago, the washington state legislature approved a marriage equality bill making it the seventh state to move in to the 21st century. washington governor chris gregory plan -- chris greg wa plans to sign the bill in to law next week. here's the interview with the triumphant california couple, chris perry and sandy steer. congratulations. how does this feel? this is an amazing, i think, victory in a federal court over a state issue like this. >> well, absolutely a momentous day for us. this challenge to the
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propositioning 8 has taken almost three years now, three years we haven't been able to get married but the sweet part of today is seeing discrimination fall in california in such a divisive way and setting a path to the supreme court and for the rest of the nation to follow. >> kris and sandy, i want you to listen to one of the voices that wants to push the country backwards on this issue. here's what mitt romney had to say in response to the ruling. he said today, unelected judges cast aside the will of the people of california who voted to protect traditional marriage. this decision does not end this fight and i expect it to go to the supreme court. how would you respond to mitt romney? >> well, if our case does go to the supreme court, we certainly feel like what will happen is the truth will be told at that level. kris and i were at the trial every day and we heard the expert testimony and the witnesses and it was a
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compelling story and the facts and evidence are on our side. the ruling, which was an amazing ruling, really showed that discrimination is wrong. that same-sex marriage is a constitutional right. we fully expect that to be upheld. >> what i thought was remarkable about today's ruling is that it says that federal courts are saying to california you can't take away a right from a group of people, based on who they are and i don't think that sin consistent with what the president has said what the supreme court has said, what people running for president are saying. when you read the facts, when you look at the reasoning behind this ruling, it is very clear. proposition 8 is harmful. it is taking away our constitutional right to equal protection, and i don't know anyone in elected office who could support that. >> this is what i think the huge contribution your case has made to the debate. it's no longer a question of how
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do you feel about this? are you uncomfortable about this? how would you feel if your child -- or any of those old-fashioned notions of approaching those questions. it is really tell me your constitutional argument against marriage equality. it seems to me you have pushed this to the point where to be in this dialogue you have to have a constitutional argument, one way or the other. >> the only argument that has come from the other side so far is they feel in some way the voters, the 52, 53% of voters in california, who voted in proposition 8, have been mistreated in some way by this ruling. it's important to note, the constitution supersedes elections, and it can supersede a majority if the majority is discriminating against a minority, which we are. that's why we are really excited about today's ruling, why it is historic and momentous. >> if we had put slavery to a vote in the


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