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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  February 21, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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one component we're fcusing on, not just the show, the country, student debt. as we like to say, we're living in a debt for diploma society. our grads are being forced because of debt loads to take jobs they do not want or take other situations they do not want simply to pay the bills by being forced into the debt traps. the critical and most important part of our society, our youth, is being prevented from expermutation in an effort to solve so many of our nation's problems. if you think it's bad now, wait until july 1st when student loan rates will double. mean i meaning the cost of that debt will double for nearly ten million students. it could tack an extra $15,000 on to student debt. talk about preventing choices
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and reducing experimentation by trapping those most able to experiment in debt. there are those on capitol hill trying to prevent this from happening. including joe courtney, who is sponsoring legislation to lock in stafford rates at their current rate for low and moderate-income students. congressman, do people in washington consider how dangerous it is for america to reduce the options for our youth with all this debt? >> barely. first of all, thank you for doing this this week. it is, in my opinion, a profound challenge, but also a crisis. in addition to the negative impact that you described in your introduction, america has fallen from number one in the world in the 1980s in terms of graduation rates to number 12. when you just sort of think about that fact in terms of what that means, in terms of our
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ability to succeed in the future, this goes to the heart of whether or not the american dream and our future is going to really have any power to it in the near term. in the near term, july 1st is when the interest rates pop up in the stafford program. the president called attention to it in the state of the union address, which i was thrilled that he took a moment to do that. but the fact is, we need to really expand awareness about the fact that, you know, as bad as it is now, we're going to go backwards even further if we don't address this sunset on july 1st. >> educate us on this particular vein of student lending. who sets that interest rate and who decides if that is going to double in july in the first place. >> as a lot of your viewers know, there's two different kinds of loans. there's private loans through sally may. payments and interest
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accumulates while you're in college. they are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. they are extremely burdensome for young people coming out of college. the stafford student loan program was an attempt to try to stabilize the cost, protect students from interest buildup while they are attending school, and try to set a more moderate interest rate. when i came to congress in 2007, we passed the college cost reduction act which cult the interest rate from 6.8% down to 3.4%. it will expire on july 1st. so we really have a simple choice ahead of us in terms of whether or not we're going to compound the high rate of debt by just ignoring that increase or whether or not we're going to do something about this it challenge to our country. >> and to stay in the tactics of this immediate legislative challenge you're dealing with, what is the barrier to preventing this interest rate
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spike from happening? >> well, the president in his budget that he offered does extend the lower rate for at least another 12 months. he has it paid for built into the budget. my legislation which senator jack reed is also found a companion bill, it locks in the rate, as you said. it all comes down to priorities. it has a cost to the budget. it's about $4 billion a year. carried interest for hedge funds would offset it if people care ed about equity. but what we have to do is raise awareness about the fact that just like the payroll tax cut expiration, just like the doctor's fees, just like a lot of other programs that have short-terms, the fact is there are really millions of college students around the country that will be hurt by this if we don't move. >> at this point in the interview, i could point out that the federal reserve is
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giving the banks money for 0% that they then give back to the united states government for 3% to watch the united states government charge our students 6% or whatever this might be, which is an outrage and would make my audience upset. so i want to go in a different direction. we know that the government does not function in a way that's resolving. we know a lot of problems. we also know that if we don't have an explosive culture of experimentation particularly among our youth, pursuing all sorts of new ideas and new solutions to problems inside their communities to around the world, that we will never be able to keep up with the rate of change as high as it is and the demand that our society adapt being as high as it is, what can we all do to emphasize to washington the imperative to promote an explosion of
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high-quality experiments from our youth as opposed to the insanity of the current debate? >> the sopa experience we just went through does show that even in the world of super pacs and heavy lobbyists, once in awhile, mr. stewart goes to washington. the mail bag does have an impact in terms of d.c. your efforts to focus on this this week is certainly a start. we are reaching out to student organizations around the country. public interest research groups are going to start raising some higher levels of noise around this. but your point about the damage that this is going to do in terms of lack of experimentation. the dropout rate from college is definitely spiking because of cost issues. and nothing could be worse than dropping out with debt, which is sadly a situation that many young people find themselves in. you know, it really should, in my opinion, bring together a broad coalition of people who have plenty of other things to fight about. but certainly, every middle
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class family who is confronting this, every business frustrated with trying to look for workforce replacement, we have to address this problem. >> if you were to look at the next steps for you or for anybody, because it's clear that we have a gross misalignment of interests between student financing, what we're teaching people, and the jobs that actually exist for people to take, it's become very profitable to loan students money because if you ter fie them to go into school for them not to be able to find a job. assuming you can prevent it from getting worse, right now you're just trying to stop a problem, what do you see is the next form of engagement for awl students to stand up and defend their status in this society? >> well, again, there is a fundamental issue here of priorities. we have programs like pell
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grants, which we did invest some money in over the last few years or so. but that's starting to plateau and level out despite the fact that tuition and houses costs are still climbing at colleges and universities around the country. i think the president did a very good thing when he said that we have to start looking at the institutions themselves. we have to start pride prodding state governments who have backed off in support. going to college now really should be viewed as buying a house, which it literally is. the level of transparency in terms of institutions and graduation rates and gainful employment rates, their true cost rates, these are the things that the president has said we have got to start reforming out there, which again, is going to make some people in the education community pretty uncomfortable. but we have to do this. when you look at the increase of tuition and housing from 1982 to 2008, it was over 400%.
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median family income was about 180%. we can never keep up cutting the huge gap that's grown up during that time period. we have to reform the system. >> and the funny thing is both housing and education lending have the same thing in common, which is the encouragement of the government and financial institutions to issue loans from which there's no capital, there's no transparency, there's short-term benefit for politicians, short-term benefit for bankers, and a huge, huge, huge, huge mess for either homeowners or students. we appreciate your efforts to at least try to stem some of the bleeding. thank you, congressman. >> thanks, dylan. coming up, what's your experiment? at one university, the answer to that question could land you a free ride to college. also ahead, changing up the whole hope and change thing. the obama 2012 campaign
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searching for a new slogan. the mega panel has a raft of ideas for us. plus act of valor. hollywood teaming up with navy seals. we have a sneak peek before the film hits the big screen this weekend. ok! who gets occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas or bloating? get ahead of it!
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sheldon adelson, the guy running the newt gingrich super
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pac, he might throw another hundred million into the deal. fundamentally, he's against wealthy people being involved in campaign, but as long as it's doable, i'm going to do it. sounds a lot like the rational from the obama campaign. if you want to bring in our panel karen, susan, and jimmy. it's interesting to figure out where this is going or what this is doing. susan, when you look at the impact that money is having, how would you portray to somebody from mars to arrived in america who is like how is money distorting the 2012 presidential race? >> by the time i was done, they would probably go back to mars. >> there's so many ways.
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>> so many different ways. the super pac money is having effect. it's the first time we had it, so it's going to have a big impact at the end of the day. >> jimmy, how would you characterize? we can do the microanalysis. we have done it for a year. where do you believe -- let's say we got money out. whatever that might mean. >> right. >> how would this election up here be different? you see that? that's my concern. >> i've never been so negative in my entire life. i don't think it would really matter. what i do think -- >> explain that a little bit. >> because of so much press emphasis on the donors for these super pacs this time, if they do ban super pacs in the next congress or after the election, which something will happen, at this point, it's going -- everyone says transparency. we're not getting it. are we going to get enough of
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it? people have to make a fundamental choice. are they tired of wealthy people buying the elections and admitting it, or would they rather buy them with $25 donations. whatever. >> karen, your thoughts? >> i was actually really encouraged. i hate to be so positive in the midst of all this. >> we won't hold it against you. >> i was encouraged by the statement, which is pretty unprecedented from briar and gins berg on friday in agreeing with the stay against montana suggested that perhaps the door should be opened to revisit citizens united. and i certainly hope if there's any way that could happen, that it does happen. and it's seeing now how it's playing out. i think she seems to have real concerns. which she should. >> won't it go back to 527? >> let's stop there.
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i agree with that. that's where i was going. let's say you overturn citizens united. we take the most cancerous component out of this. are these people drunk? you have to be nuts to have rules like this. but at the end of the day, jimmy, we have a fundamental problem in our country that whatever the numbers are, the incumbent in a given district because of gerrymandering and lack of a primary challenger, because of money in politics and these it variables, we still have sort of a nobility in american politics that always retain these positions through the benefits of unchallenged primaries in gerrymandered districts. i do wonder about the energy of getting money out will continue to find itself way deeper into the rabbit hole. not just the money, but the fact that jimmy gets to keep his job because no one challenges him in the primary or whoever the person is.
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how much confidence do you have that as people go down this rabbit hole that they get to the right place? which is in my view, the disconnection between the incumbent politicians and the people they represent. >> you become the town leader. you find other ways to influence voters. i mean at the end of the day, what the game is. >> at the end of the day though you guys, none of this is going to matter if people won't be willing to run for office. the reason you don't have other choices on the ballot is because at some point, five other people who may have considered running for office decided not to. so at the end of the day, you're not going to have change if people don't put themselves its out there. >> but the reason they don't do it is because the incumbent says if you dare think about running against me, harry reid, me chuck schumer, me i'm picking powerful
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senators. if you dare confront the king in a primary, you shall be banished from the kingdom and left to eat crumbs in the woods from here on out. and there's not a lot of people, karen, that want to engage as we say this. but when you have gerrymandered districts with no nobility entrenched in the jobs, very, and they use a lot of social intimidation. >> look at the tea party folks. that's what they were told by the party. they said screw that. we're running. >> for sure. that's a wonderfully good point. get ready for karen finney's new super pac entitled "screw that, we're running." who's in? karen finney, i like that. speaking of slogans, you know what, this is perfect for our next segment.
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it's scheduled to be the search for the new obama slae began. i know we solicited you for your suggestions. i think we found that. screw that, we're running. >> that's all for you. >> who would like to -- you know, i'll start this off. steve freedman is our executive producer. he had a great slogan, which was "have you seen how bad the other guys are? barack obama 2012." you're the political strategist at the table. >> that's pretty much what they are saying now. that's what the democrats are saying. >> wait. it's the republicans. you guys are look iing for anotr candidate. you have four and you don't like any of them. >> it's one of the reasons i said h slogan noprw.sident.
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he doesn't need a catchy slogan. he just has to wait and say look at the other guys and come back after the convention. >> pretty brazen. we're going to give karen the last word on this. >> mine was tell me something good. you remember the song? >> i think you wanted a little funk music. >> i was writing my column this morning when the e-mail came across. i'm like, can somebody tell me something good? i was like what it is. >> because of your delight in that music, you have manipulated your position as a member of the national media to play a song you liked. >> that sounds cool. >> that might be a nice after effect. >> i'm teasing you. karen, what do you think? >> i decided to answer the question seriously. i did ask if we could be funny.
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so i said the president should stay with "yes we can with three themes. opportunity, accountability, and fairness." good slogans should talk about yourself and contrast your opponent. he's trying to talk about the things we can do to move our country forward. i feel like the other side is so negative right now and trashing america, trashing american workers, trashing obama, talking about theology for god's sakes, i feel like something positive, which in reminds us that the work that's left to be done is going to take more work. we're not going to get everything we want in four years. so "yes we can." >> that's why she's the optimist. >> she's also a democratic political strategist who probably should be hired. that was a good pitch. that was free from karen finney to washington, d.c. with the capitol building behind you.
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>> and one for you too dylan. "screw that, we're running." >> my warning before we go for anybody making slogans of any kind, which hopium kills. be careful. hope-ium kills. >> the right wingers are going to print this off. it's going to be on every car in america. >> the panel stays. straight ahead, our specialist says we do not have to think outside the box. we have to think outside the planet. [ male announcer ] this is lois. the day starts with arthritis pain... a load of new listings... and two pills. after a morning of walk-ups, it's back to more pain, back to more pills. the evening showings bring more pain and more pills.
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for half a century, western nations held the crown of economic super powers. as we all know, that certainly
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has been in transition, shall we say. emerging countries making a splash on the global stage with all sorts of new technology, new productivity, and a fast-changing landscape. check it th out. the power house nations ten years ago were responsible for 75% of industrial outputs. now represent less than a third of that by 2050. that's not just because we're diminishing our outputs, but those others are expanding. our proportional participation goes down. just because we're not growing as fast as they are. how do we adapt to a new world word with an inflated global economy? today's specialist is chris meyer, coauthor of "changing the sun." as india and brazil and russia and china come online between
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now and 2050,poional relationship of the united states or for that matter western europe will change. what do you suggest -- how do we context liez that so we can navigate it with great success as opposed to like a bunch of fools? >> well, a more inflated raft is a good thing for everybody. >> that's what you think. >> the question is how do we welcome it? other peoples' growth is no not our enemy. u.s. companies historically in the last five years look at emergin emerging markets as a growth opportunity. but they are the place where the new rules take place and get adopted for capitalism. an analogy here. in the industrial revolution, the technology came from england. but they had an agricultural economy. so the society was the u.s. rapid growth. youthful. here in the u.s., we figured out
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what an industrial society looked like. same thing. we invent the information technology here but it's going to be the digital -- >> it's going to be the people that don't have the legacy that's wedded to preserving the industrial arty firsts no matter what. brazil is like we're just going to do this. go ahead, susan. >> does that mean the environment we're in today with big banks and globalization, are people succeeding in spite of traditional capitalism? >> in brazil, the banking law, sorry to cut you off. if you're the director of a bank, you have personal liability to that bank. so in other words, in brazil, they are getting growth because bankers are forced to work in the community to lend and develop in that community. whereas in america, they can do whatever they want and they
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don't lose anything. in brazil, it's personal liability. that's a huge distinction in the cultures in the countries. >> what it means, are people succeeding, which people? ge is succeeding because they are embracing what it means to be a doctor in india and their healthy imagination business is paying attention to that even though it means they are selling a $3500 cardiogram instead of a $35,000 cardiogram. 40% of them are sold in western europe. they are succeeding because they are embracing a new model. meanwhile people in india doing housing development for the hundred million lower class people who need housing, they are succeeding for a different reason. they don't just care about the maximum development profit. they count other kinds as well. >> it's an effective solution. go ahead, jimmy. >> so we as a country, we began making good things like agricultu
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agriculture. we exported those. then we did products like steel. >> still do. >> yes. and then we did high-tech. we exported those ideas. what's next? what are we exporting next? what do we make here? do we make ideas? physical things? what's next? >> it can be all of those things. and a whole other subject about molecular activities. plenty of great innovation work to do. u.s. makes education better than anybody still. >> but we make a lot of dummies too that can't read and write. >> you got it. there are other emerging economies that don't have as much as that problem if you adjust for their income level. china cares about education. i have seen the most innovation in education actually in india. india is taking as great approach to industrializing
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education. they break it up to smaller assembly line parts. is that a fabulous teacher? no. is it better than what they've got? yes. then you create a system where you have a million mothers teaching a rit me tick around the country. >> karen, go ahead. >> here's a question. is there a way we can reimagine or rethink about this process in terms of underserved markets here in the united states? because i feel like we talk about emerging markets around the world and we forget here in our own country, we have parts of the country where people are still living behind the times. is there a way we can reimagine that? >> here's a thought. we have a fetish for competition in this country. we think competition is a means in itself. but we have a lot of pseudocompetition. so what's the result of that?
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at&t and verizon, providers of mobile service, they spend $35 per customer per year on advertising to you. and no market share is changing hands. they are just preventing industry by others. in india, the leading provider there, they are serving people who spend $15 per year total in revenue. so half of what companies here are spending on advertising. they do it by innovation. they do it by sharing towers, et cetera. if we could stop saying competition is a means on its own and focus on innovation and serving customers, that would help a lot. >> we talk a lot about with the 30 million jobs tour is those types of outcomes emerge from specific cultures. so when you look at the culture in austin, texas, or silicon val valley or pockets all over the
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country, here in new york, in miami at the launch pad, we can go all over the country and find this. they all have one thing in common, which is they have investors, entrepreneurs, educators, with a clear goal that is the efficiency of the output of whatever it is. the recycling battery. whatever the thing is. we're sort of more lost if i get ahead of you, that's bad for you. i have to take you down. now both of us are fighting with each other instead of all of us saying are we getting where we're going which is what you see is a lot of the systems in other countries. >> there's no reason we can't do great in this it global economy if we get out of our own way. there's a great article by apple saying jobs aren't coming back. why was that? because the companies in china were doing a better job of competing for apple's business. >> that's a different -- if you
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included 50% currency discount. if you consider a better job, you're going to get me worked up on that. >> we can talk about that. point being, apple says in this world -- down boy. my point is apple says you release a product globally. this is being a company that stands on the sun. those companies will help us compete if we just don't say, your job is to keep the job here. >> i would just say that as long as you don't indulge a 50% currency rating and manipulation and have fairness, then i fully agree with you. >> that's a great topic of what has to happen for this to work. for sure. >> exactly. nice to have you here. thank you very much. nice to see you too. karen, congratulations on your new gig.
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>> thanks. >> and listen. if the president doesn't take you, i certainly will. "screw this, we're running" is the name of our pac. trade policy a big factor in "greedy bastards" chapter 3. be sure to check that out. if you want to learn more about what we're talking about with china and the united states and world trade. listening to your thoughts, of course, as we have is central to all of this. we have a series of meetups planned on the college tour. tomorrow at noon, we'll be at the joseph-beth booksellers in lexington, kentucky. after the show, we'll do a coffee meetup on rose street. and then thursday at the book loft in columbus, ohio, same time. then saturday in chicago at noon. 57th street books. more information about all of this on our website. up next here, the question we're
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experimentation for innovation. the next big idea could land you a free ride at one new england university. the university of new haven is holding a competition asking incoming freshmen to explain their business plans, their experiments if you will, on facebook. including a company overview and what would set them apart from the rest. the top four ideas will earn those students free tuition. considering four years at the university runs you $120,000, that's not chump change. the idea, priceless. larry flanagan who developed the campaign for mastercard, he believes entrepreneurial spirits
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should be the key themes of any business education. remember, of course, around here every problem is ultimately a job. it is america's innovators who can solve those problems in partnership with investors and in the process get all of us not only the solutions we seek, but create 30 million jobs or at least contribute along the way. up next here, bravery meets hollywood block buster. >> navy seals storming the big screen. a first look after this. [ laura ] maine is known for its lighthouses, rocky shore,
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and rushes relief to the site of your tough pain. the best part? it's proven to relieve pain twice as fast as before. bayer advanced aspirin. test how fast it works for you. love it, or get your money back. you just watched a preview of the new film "act of valor." two stuntmen turn film maker. they decided to cast not actors but actually navy seals to play the leading roles. they shot the film around the world.
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including inside a navy nuclear submarine. the story follows a group of seals as they try to foil an international terrorist's plot. while it's based on a true story, much of the battle scenes included live ammunition. we are breaking it down with mike mccoy and scott. what is your goal in releasing this film, scott? >> our goal is to carry that message out there to the public that there's a lot of men and women that are fighting down range and doing some pretty heroic things and seeking no recognition. there's a lot of first responders doing the same thing. we just think it's really important those people do get recognized. they are doing valorous things for reasons that we are still try i trying to understand.
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>> and mike, what would you add to that? >> absolutely. the concept of "an act of valor" really struck us. these men were doing such amazing things and no one knew about it. they were humble guys that were so different in how they had been represented. so we really wanted to communicate what these guys were about. >> what do you think is revealed, mike, about the nature of their character that may be distort distorted in peoples' minds? >> first and foremost, we have all seen the concept of the commando on film. it's usually a concoction between ram bo and terminator. some of these are the most intelligent guys we have met. really dedicated family men. every guy in this film is a true dedicated family man. we wanted to showcase the family side of this as well. ten years of sustained combat
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deployments have taken its toll on these guys. >> the introduction i told everybody you were both former stuntmen. scott, take a crack at this. your thoughts on as a stuntman, the willingness that you guys would have to engage in some of the actual acts of valor, if you will, that some of these navy seals are asked to deliver on a moment's notice on any given day. >> that was one of the reasons we got a chance to really relate to them. being former stuntmen, you kind of do hang out on a line with your life. but you truly, mouse and i would never put ourselves in their shoes they are such at a level way above us. we thought we were men until we met them. now we're like little boys trying to live up to their expectations. they really do put their lives on the line. for us to get in the middle of that with the live ammunition was really a thrill for us.
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we have been retired stuntmen for seven years so it was fun to get back in the mix of it. >> is there anything -- when you look at the film you have produced and are now releasing, is there anything in that movie you think to yourself, i'm glad i'm the producer and didn't have to do that part? >> actually, scott and ourselves put ourselves in the middle of the most dangerous scenes. we're in full camouflage in the stack with the audience on the cameras in the danger zone. and i think that's something that's really appealing for audiences. this film is all in camera. there's no cgi in the movie. to be challenged that way to keep up with the guys and put the audience in the middle of the action, it was a fantastic opportunity. >> and how has the response been both from the military community and the broader entertainment media in anticipation of a fairly unique product? >> we're proud to say that the
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community has really given us a salute and said thank you for making this authentic and properly representing our lives and our community and our families overall. that was really rewarding. and it's been fun inside the film making community for people respecting the fact we made a new kind of movie. it's a brand new type of film. nobody has seen anything like this. we feel like we braised new trail. >> it's somewhat self-explanatory in the context of the activity with osama bin laden over the past 12 months, but there has always been in this country a very, sort of strong attraction to the edge of our military capability. american snipers at the top of the best sellers list. we call it navy seal mania. why do you think that is so attractive right now as a commercial idea? >> we had a saying early on.
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there's no stars in hos. i think the american public is drawn to that. to give it to them in an honest w way, i think they are going to enjoy it. >> will there be more? in other words, because this has been a success, scott, would you do a marine special forces? would you do different versions of this? >> i think we're definitely open to the other possibilities. just the fact of working with these caliber of men and women, to be immersed in that culture is a big thrill for us. if we get that opportunity again, we'd take a strong look at it. they are amazing people. >> and then just so you can check my logic. i have a theory that we have this incredible force with these
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young men and women that are represented in not only movies like this, but in our military and culture at large. and that if that energy was harnessed towards something like american energy independence. instead of using it for a war state, that same energy is remarkably powerful for america's own future. do you think -- am i off the reservation on that? >> i think you're right on the money. the concept of team work. you look at a seal platoon. they are working as one team. they are absent of ego. it's about what they can do for the guy to the left and right and move themselves forward in an efficient way. the american public can learn a lot from that. i was fortunate to spend a week underneath a nuclear sub. you watch the stainability of that submarine, we can learn a lot from them. >> congrats on the movie. mike mccoy and waugh, "act
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of valor" out this weekend. david goodfriend with a rant about the latest shenanigans surrounding the bp oil disaster. [ female announcer ] did mr. intern forget how his boss takes her coffee? just cover your bases. bring her the all-natural sugar in the raw and the all natural, zero calorie sweetener stevia in the raw. then learn that she doesn't drink coffee, just tea. it's only natural.
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here's david goodfriend with the daily rant. >> if i looked just a little more tan than usual, that's because i came back from a family trip down to miami. highlights included sea kayaking, paddle boarding, and biking down south beach. natural beauty of water and coast at its best. but i learned about something happening over on the gulf coast that has me madder than a
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florida gator. remember the bp oil spill? the largest oil spill in u.s. history caused by greedy bastardism at its worst. they skirted safety practices, lied about how much oil was spilling into the gulf, and regulators were weakened by lob lobbying. despite the tv commercials bp is paying for including here on msnbc, they are up to no good again. in less than a week, oral arguments between the u.s. department of justice and bp are set to begin in court. and apparently, bp is trying to settle its way out of cleaning up the mess they made. of the $20 billion they set aside to pay people whose livelihoods were destroyed by the spill, only $6.5 billion have been allocated. the rest of the money can go to the u.s. treasury. really? are we that convinced we have seen the last of the economic damage done by the spill? up in alaska, fishermen are
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still trying to cover from the exxon valdez spill. if you add up the liability in court, it's anywhere from $5 to $21 billion in civil and criminal penalties. plus by their own estimate in court documents, up to $42 billion in cleanup costs and economic restoration. let me get this straight. only $6.5 billion have been spent on actually helping people in the bufl. that's out of $20 billion set aside and another $63 billion in legal liabilities. by my math, that's 8% of total funds actually going to cleaning up the mess. or just under bp's profits per quarter. talk about getting off easy. here's some advice for my fellow lawyers at the department of justice. don't settle before oral arguments begin. you've got a great case. make them sweat. get a settlement where the money goes to the gulf and stays there
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forever. how about a trust fund where it's used for ongoing environmental protection? woes cost the taxpayers a dime. or congress can pass the restore act, which was introduced to keep the money where it's needed most. legal settlements should do two things. punish the wrongdoer and clean up the mess they made. in this case, any result that doesn't accomplish both will be a total failure. dylan? >> not to mix too many together, but considering how the department of justice has done nothing against banks that are rife of evidence of fraud with the clear connection being the incredible reliance of politicians on money from the banks, how much does the dependence of oil money on these political structures throw a monkey into the entire situation? >> you're right to name the banks. there's a pattern here. settlements should do the real thing. they shouldn't be a slap on the wrist. we have to s


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