tv Jansing and Co. MSNBC April 13, 2012 7:00am-8:00am PDT
good morning. i'm chris jansing. it's the controversy that won't go away. it seems like everyone in the democratic party who can denounce the comments made against ann romney is. >> first of all, there is no tougher job than being a mom. i've watched michelle. you know, who for most of her career had to juggle work and family. but there were times where she was on maternity leave. and i promise you, that's work. >> my entire career as a senator and as a vice president is to get to one point, where my daughter is able to make whatever choice she wants. >> and under mounting pressure, democratic strategist hilary rosen, who said ann romney, who raised five sons, never worked a day in her life, apologized. >> i apologize.
working moms, stay-at-home moms, they're both extremely hard jobs. amanda turk'll is the senior political reporter for the huffington post. david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones and an msnbc political analyst as well as author of the book "showdown." good morning to both of you. >> good morning. >> well, amanda, if there was a war on women, democrats thought they were winning it because the polls sure showed there was a huge gap between support for president obama and mitt romney. but has this maybe caused some people to take a second look at mitt romney? >> well, mitt romney is still 19 points behind president obama. with women. so he has a lot of catching up to do. and i think barbara bush actually yesterday said it well. women who go to work with wonderful. women who stay at home and work are wonderful. whatever. what does mitt romney want to do policiwise for women? he didn't put out any policies yesterday that specifically target women.
and we still don't know where he stands on a lot of issues. we now know that he won't change the lilly ledbetter act. but where does he stand on something like the violence against women act? and the republican budget, which would slash a lot of programs that help low-income women, including women who want to stay home and raise their children full-time. >> well, let me play what ann romney had to say about all this. of course she's been in the center of it all. here she was yesterday. >> she should have come to my house when those five boys were causing so much trouble. it wasn't so easy. my career choice was to be a mother. and i think all of us need to know that we need to respect choices that women make. other women make other choices, to have a career and raise family, which i think hilary rosen has actually done herself. i respect that. >> david, ann romney, very likeable. a lot of democrats talking very positively about her. does this create an opening for mitt romney to close that gender gap? >> no. i don't think so. i mean, the issue is not what choice ann romney, a very -- you
know, who is in a very well-to-do family at the time made or didn't make. you know, she had options that most women, that 90%, maybe 95% or 99% of women don't have. so her choice is kind of immaterial to the issues that face most american women and most american men and everybody in the times we have now. and amanda referred to this. this is what the issue -- what the election is going to turn on. as opposed to whether women engage with mitt romney. it's what he says to them about issues they care about. if he's going to endorse and embrace, as he has, the ryan budget, which is going to slash the number of slots for head start. it's going to slash the number of, say, teaching positions in states. it's going to make it harder for mothers and fathers to send their children to college, with fewer pell grants, less money for pell grants, that's going to have far more impact than anything -- hilary's a friend, but even an obscure democratic
strategist said in april about ann romney. and i want to bring in susan del percio and -- republican strategy exist strategist and an msnbc contributor. in the end is david right? is this not going to make a difference if mitt romney doesn't come in and say okay here are the affirmative actions i'm going to take to help american women? >> i actually think it's very helpful to romney in a different way. because he was able to jump on this issue. the fact that he has a campaign that is agile enough right now to turn a situation around is very important. so politically, it was also very helpful to romney, you know, after he came out of such a terrible primary really, to show that he has what it takes to go toe to toe with president obama. and i think that you do have -- that romney does have to address obviously issues in the gender dpa gap, but it is going to come down to the economy. it's not going to come down to these fights over words. >> one of the things hilary rosen said yesterday, and i'm going to quote her, "let's declare peace in this phony war and go back to focus on the
substance, which is really about whether or not there will be proposals or we'll actually have an opportunity to hear more about where both of the candidates stand." were her original comments maybe taken a little bit out of context? did she really intend to say something, you know, more broadly about the economic issues facing women and in the end this is not going to have any impact on the campaign. >> i think she was trying to take a cheap shot at ann romney. >> really? >> yeah. and she was basically trying to say she's wealthy, she doesn't know what problems are, she has no idea of what other women go through. and she really got caught up in it. and again, it was because of the romney campaign jumping on it that really became an issue. >> i want to play another clip of ann romney yesterday. here it is. >> look, i know what it's like to struggle. and if maybe i haven't struggled as much financially as some people have, i can tell you and promise you that i've had struggles in my life. and i would love to have people
understand that mitt and i have compassion for people that are struggling. and that's why we're running. >> and she doesn't say it there. but some of the struggles she's obviously talking about is she had m.s. she is a breast cancer survivor. today's "wall street journal," look at that headline, "spotlight on ann romney key to campaign strategy." amanda, they were already getting her out there a lot. are we going to see her even more? we always talk about a lot of the candidates' wives as their secret weapon. >> well, she will be out there a lot. she humanizes mitt romney quite a bit. and she was on fox news very poised, i think a very sympathetic character as a spouse's wife. -- sorry, as the candidate's wife. but now how does she take those struggles that she has gone through and translate them and convince women that she and mitt romney know what struggling women are going through and turn that into policy? they've gone after president obama quite a bit for the job losses women have experienced
during his presidency. but a lot of them have been government jobs, and mitt romney wants to cut government jobs by another 10%. so what will women in the economy look like under mitt romney? and that's something the candidates will be battling quite a bit through themselves or through their surrogates or their spouses in the coming days. >> obviously, the republicans see an opening here because there's a fund-raising e-mail that they're sending out already. "if you're a stay-at-home mom, the democrats have a message for you. you've never worked a day in your life." and later, "donate $6 to get your moms drive the economy bumper sticker and send a message to president obama today." smart on the republicans' part, david? >> maybe. but this is what's wrong with politics. that's not what democrats say. it's not even what hilary rosen said. i mean, she was poking at mitt romney, who says that he understands what american women are struggling with in the economy because he talks to his wife and she talks to them. i mean, it was an absurd position for him to take, showing once again that he is detached and doesn't even have an understanding of his own, he
has to turn to his wife. and hilary rosen's point, while said in a very clumdsy fashion, was that she is not a good person to go to if you want to learn about the financial struggles of american women. and that's the issue here. the fact that susan says hooray, the romney campaign can exploit this and turn it into an issue, shows that there's something good there. well, that's great. but it has nothing to do with what this country really faces and the difficult future ahead. and it's a cynical politics that, you know, if susan wants to cheer that, if the romney people want to make hay out of, that all you can hope is that the american public expects something better and different from its leaders when it comes to very significant policy debates. >> cynical politics, susan? >> i was not saying yay for the romney team. i mean, i'm -- >> you said it was a good thing they did this. you said it showed they could pivot. >> looking at it as an analyst, though. there's a big difference when i'm explaining a situation and saying this is what they did and they did it well. i say the same thing when the
obama administration does things well. so just taking that to a side -- i'm sorry? >> no. i was just saying they exploited something well. that's your point. >> well, just like the obama folks exploit things well. and that's what politics has turned to. and david, that's actually where i agree with you. it's turned into this dime store kind of nonsense, whenever you can turn something around quickly and try to make a quick political point. >> well, let me play for you josh romney, who last night was asked if the campaign is secretly happy about all of this. >> it's an issue my dad cares passionately about, about moms and dads who stay home and work hard. the works that moms and dads do at home is the most valuable work that's done in the world. that's something we all agree on. we're not trying to score political points and worry about that. >> amanda, they're not trying to score political points, but they are sending out e-mails and asking people to buy bumper stickers to raise some money. so is this the kind of thing that we're just going to deal with for the next six, eight months? >> oh, we'll see a lot more of
this in the next six to eight months. i find it hard to believe that the romney campaign wasn't happy about hilary rosen's comments when she said this about stay-at-home moms. i may, the day before the romney campaign was incredibly on the defense. first they were trying to insist there is no war on women, then they were saying there is a war on women but the obama campaign is the one that's waging it. they were on the defense about the lilly ledbetter act. so the fact that all of this happens i have to think they felt leveled the playing field on this, might help them a little bit, and they were i think very happy by what hilary rosen said that they could end up using it. >> and could i completely turn topic now because i have to show you what's going on live in newark, new jersey. and i'm sure you all heard about cory booker. he of course is the mayor there. and last night -- right now he's sharing the details about coming home last night. his neighbor's house was on fire. and so he and two of his security guards carried a woman out of the burning building. >> again, people say bravery.
i felt fear. and then especially on the other side, i really didn't think we were going to get out of there. so i just have a lot of gratitude today. i feel a lot of just love. i actually -- if anybody was looking at the headlines this last couple weeks, i was thinking that i had big problems. and now everything seems so small in my life. and i just feel such a sense of gratitude. >> the mayor, he had some burns on his hand. he also had some smoke inhalation. the woman that he saved is in stable condition. david, he was already being talked about as having a national political future. now he is mayor booker superhero. >> i tell you, i saw cory booker give a speech at a private dinner last december. he is one impressive guy. he spoke without notes. it was heartfelt. he was almost evangelical in talking about community service. he has -- there's a strong spiritual component to his politics. he's a street guy. he gets -- you know, he's lived in downtown newark. he's taken on his own democratic
party bosses there. he is a very impressive fellow and has a bright future ahead of him if everything goes the way it's been going and he can still act like a superhero. >> you know, amanda, he's a guy who already took on one of the most difficult city situations probably in all of america, newark in a lot of trouble. he's a guy who was seen actually out shoveling people's sidewalks. i mean, he is really a hands-on kind of guy. you see a big future for him? >> i mean, this was just such a pure, nice story. and i think a lot of people get frustrated with politics because they don't see it affecting their daily lives. and cory booker has really combated that i think in the city of newark, by shoveling people's driveways, by rescuing people whose houses are burning down. and so if he keeps this up he will definitely keep rising nationally. other politicians will want to be associated with him. and so i think we'll be hearing a lot more about cory booker. >> susan, you wouldn't want to consult on a republican who had to run against cory booker? >> well, he actually has a great
relationship with chris christie, the governor of new jersey. and i think what this shows is not only has he been a good mayor, obviously, but he's actually a good person. he didn't go into that fire as mayor. he went in as being a very good, wonderful person. >> well, amanda terkel, david corn, susan del percio, thanks to all of you. i want to say a couple of things. one is that we're going to have some tweets. the twittersphere has gone crazy over this cory booker story and they're hilarious. we've got that coming up. we've also got a discussion about the larger issues that have been brought up by this political comment about ann romney. so that's coming up. and also, north korea's failed rocket launch. we'll be talking to colonel jack jacobs coming up right after this. all right, let's decide what to
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launch. there you see their setup for some comments after that meeting. the rocket broke up within minutes. the white house describing it as a provocative action. joining me now for more is msnbc military analyst and recipient of the congressional medal of honor, colonel jack jacobs. and the managing director of the washington institute and former senior director for middle east affairs at the national security council, michael singh. so michael, we're watching what's going on at the u.n. how do you think the u.s. and its allies should respond to something like this? >> well, contribution there's a real dilemma for the united states here because you know, this was clearly a provocation by north korea, a really sort of perplexing and provocative act by the north koreans. to launch this rocket just after these negotiations where the u.s. was intending to give food aid to north korea. you know, on the other hand, you know, this all happened before. in april of 2009. and after a failed rocket launch then the u.s. condemned it, the security council condemned it, and then north korea conducted a nuclear test.
and so i think what the u.s. probably worries about here is they don't want to goad north korea into doing something even more provocative and what they would really like is to get china on board and get china to moderate north korea's actions. >> well, speaking of doing something even more provocative-s that a concern, especially given that you have this young new leader and this is a huge embarrassment for him. >> well, it is. a huge embarrassment. that's right. and you do have a young new leader. and frankly, i wonder whether there's really much the united states can do, chris, to prevent north korea from doing something even more provocative. regardless of whether we condemn this or not or regardless of whether we impose new sanctions or not. i think that the new kim, baby kim, has a real motivation here to do something to right the ship, to do something to sort of regain his honor after this failure. >> if we want to look at a positive thing coming out of this, colonel, is it at least a sign that some heavy sanctions have worked. that we've kept some metals and
some other component parts of a missile program out of the hands of the north? >> yeah, but it doesn't seem to have much long-term strategic effect. anything that we -- food aid, any other kind of assistance that we decide we're not going to send, any kind of information and equipment that we prevent from goat getting into north korea doesn't seem to have much of an effect on north korea's strategic outlook. 40% of the admittedly minuscule gross domestic product of that country goes to the military and any further restrictions is just going to increase the
the fact is that there are lots of problems in the world and the united states government needs to be able to respond to all of them at the same time. which is difficult but necessary. >> michael singh, colonel jack jacobs, thank you both for coming in. >> thank you. superstar beyonce and first lady michelle obama, a budding friendship? those details next. ♪ spread a little love my way [ female announcer ] philadelphia cooking creme. a simple way to make dinner fresh and new again. creamy philadelphia along with savory herbs and spices. just stir it in. ♪ now it only takes a moment to make the moment.
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the summit of the americas. robert kennedy's son, douglas, in court yesterday to answer charges that he got physical with two nurses. there you see the video. as he grabbed his newborn son and tried to leave the hospital. after court he said his father was taken away from him when he he was just a baby and he wanted to be with his child on that january night. could michelle obama and beyonce be best pen pals? the pop star wrote a letter to the first lady on her tumblr. "michelle is the ultimate example of a truly strong african-american woman. i am proud to have my daughter grow up in a worrell where she has people like you to look up to." and my must read today is about the mayor of newark, new jersey. it involves that dramatic telling of america's newest superhero. mayor cory booker rescuing a woman from a burning building. can a national political future be far behind? read all about it. just go it our facebook page. facebook/jansingco. ting technoly is now within your grasp
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well, let's take a look at some other stories people are talking about right now. george zimmerman appearing in a florida courtroom for the first time thursday. he did not enter a plea. but his attorney says he will ultimately plead not guilty to second-degree murder. zimmerman's attorney will now work to get the 28-year-old out on bail at another hearing next week. the attorney also says zimmerman may apologize to the family of trayvon martin, the teen zimmerman fatally shot february 26th. a horrible night in the town of greenland, new hampshire. their police chief was shot and killed during a drug raid. chief michael maloney was just weeks from retirement. four other officers were wounded. investigators later found the body of the suspect in the house along with an unidentified woman. and another shooting, this one in modesto, california, where a police officer was killed in a shootout while trying to serve an eviction notice. a civilian was killed, too. the apartment burst into flames hours after that shooting, though it's not clear how the
fire began. the modesto bee is reporting flash bang devices and tear gas might have been responsible. well, amid all the stories of gun violence, mitt romney and newt gingrich are among those speaking at the national rifle association's conference today. for romney it's a chance to woo a key conservative group. he is a member of the nra. according to a new poll, 68% of respondents have a favorable opinion of the nra. but when it comes to gun ownership and laws, 63% say there should be more regulation. $88.5 million. that's how much money the super pacs have spent this year in the presidential election just so far. with this week's departure of rick santorum virtually paving the way for mitt romney's nomination, the super pacs have some decisions to make. what are they? what are they going to do with their money? msnbc's richard lui is here. so what are the options? >> chris, almost anything. a lot is at stake. 85 million spent so far -- 88
million spent so far, as you were alluding to. that's probably not even half of it. how about 150 million or maybe even 250 million? the republican nominee could have that much at stake in super pac money this election. now, with three candidates suspending their campaigns, the ravens are circling. they want the leftovers. here's what happens. if super pacs have money left, and it may not be much, they can do just about whatever they want. they can buy a private jet or even a mansion and a yacht. but probably won't. they've got careers to think about, chris. what will probably happen? those with cash donate to other super pacs. consolidate or support the gop nominee. and what about those millionaire donors who don't have a candidate now? the super pacs supporting rick perry planned to raise up to $50 million from super donors and others. and foster freeze could have given millions more to the super pac for rick santorum. their untapped largess in view. mitt romney supporters are
licking their chops. or not. here's foster freeze. >> rick and mitt have been kind of going at each other. now that they've trained their barrels on president obama, i hope his teleprompters are bulletproof. i don't mean -- >> that's a metaphor. and i know that's the way in which you meant it. >> yeah. i'm sorry. i probably shouldn't have said that. >> you definitely should not have said it. we do understand it's a metaphor. and foster -- >> yeah. >> yeah, super pacs have brought the wild west to this election. anything can happen. even though some have lost their reason to be, chris, others are adding to the super pac list that now tops 300. >> we never, ever run out of stuff to talk about with these super pacs. >> no. >> richard, thank you. and with more on mobilizing money, let's bring in msnbc contributor and former santorum communications director robert traynham. and jen psaki, who is the former white house communications director for president obama. good to see both of you. happy friday. >> happy friday, chris. >> given those comments we just heard from foster freeze,
however they may have been misconstrued, are there some risks, do you think, robert, for candidates when you have a huge contributor who's so identified with you and they can basically say and do anything you want without consulting with the campaign? >> yeah, that's free speech, right? that's the first amendment and that's what the supreme court ruled last jaerks these individuals can obviously form an organization and be able to spend whatever they want in terms of dollar figures on a cause or candidate that they want. and this is just not happening on the republican side, obviously. this is happening on the democratic side. i presume that we'll talk about the afl-cio and some of the other organizations. >> let's talk about that. their newly formed super pac, workers' voice, has announced it's going to be strike out on its own. instead of supporting the democratic party or specific candidates, do you think, jen, that could hurt the president and other democrats? >> well, look, i think the super p pacs are kind of an entity that the president has been clear he's very much opposed to but he's not going to run on a different set of rules than the
republicans are running on. you know, the important thing here, chris, is the obama campaign has 1.8 million donors to date. four years ago at this time they had 1.2 million. so they're way ahead of that. the average donation is $60. you know, that's the kind of fund-raising and the kind of involvement that's really going to drive that campaign. in terms of super pacs, we know that this is an entity that we all have to grapple with during this campaign. but the problem is that it's giving an outsize voice to a small number of donors and a small number of people. and you reference foster friess but there are many others who serve as an example. >> yet the president has opened his arms and said we have to level the playing field, and he's asked for donations to come in. and to jen's point, obviously, the situation we have, robert-s that after all of these months of rit momry often outspending rick santorum 10/1 in campaign cash barack obama is way ahead of mitt romney.
and cash in the bank i think he's got as much as ten times what mitt romney does right now. are super pacs going to be the difference here? >> i think it depends on who you ask. i think super pacs will definitely help mitt romney at the end of the day. i'm just a little bit confused here. you talk about flip-flopping as it relates to mitt romney. president obama was obviously against super pacs but now he's for it. if you stand on principle one could make the argument that he shouldn't, quote unquote, level the playing field at all, that he should stick to his principle and that is to say super pacs are wrong. and those are his words, not mine. but back to your point, the point simply is that mitt romney will probably benefit much more than barack obama is because barack obama has obviously been running for re-election much longer than mitt romney has been in terms of raising the amount of cash that you need unfortunately to win the presidency. >> well, jen, do you think that the democratic super pacs can make up some of that ground because the reason the president weighed in on this is because the republican super pacs were taking in so much money. so far we haven't seen anywhere near that kind of money coming
in on the democratic side. are you worried about that? >> well, chris, it's absurd to suggest that president obama should run on a different set of rules than republicans, than mitt romney, who's running. he's still very much opposed to citizens united and that decision and would love for the circumstances to be different. but we're not going to bring a butter knife to a gunfight here. and that's why he and the campaign have come out and said that we need to run on a level playing field. you know, every dollar that is raised by the democratic super pac is a dollar that's going to kind of compete against the hundreds of millions that are being raised on the republican side. we know the republican side will have more money. there are more special interest donors who are putting money on that side. and that certainly is a reality everyone is well aware of on the democratic side. >> chris, may i make a quick point? >> sure. you look incredulous. >> well, i'll just remind everyone out there that this was the candidate back in 2007 that said that he would take matching dollars if in fact he became the democratic nominee.
barack obama chose not to do that. he contradicted himself back in july of 2008 and he raised an unlimited amount of cash. this is a person who said that he was not going to take any super pac money or have anything to do with super pac money, and now he's changed his position on that. so you know, when you talk about fairness and you talk about being consistent and when you talk about standing for your principles, i'm not sure president obama can really -- has a leg to stand on when it comes to that issue. >> robert, if mitt romney wants to commit to taking no money from lobbyists or pacs, i think that would be a great way to level the playing field on that side. so i don't know if you're the position to make that announ announceme announcement. but -- >> it's not an announcement. it's not an announcement. it was a fact. i'm just quoting president obama from 2007. that's exactly what he said. >> robert and jen, we are going to leave it there. thanks to both of you. >> thank you, chris. >> and you have not heard the last of this debate. thank you both so much. and it's crunch time for tax procrastinator procrastinators. cnbc's jackie deangelis is here
with what's moving your money. final weekend before the tax deadline. your chances of getting audited, though, this year are lower. that's the good news. >> "usa today" is reporting that even irs has fallen on hard times. they're coping with federal budget cuts, staffing reductions, and a hiring freeze. so the hoodds of an audit only about 1 in 90 this year. retailers are offering some procrastinators discounts as they try to get them and some early filers who got some refund money through the doors. cinnabon will give you two classic cinnabon bites on april 15th. chili's offering an appetizer or dessert with the purchase of a entree. and my favorite, hydro massage will provide free massages for stressed out filers. i'd say it's a pretty creative way to spir some spending in these tough times, chris. >> hydro massage? do you get into a tub? >> i'm not sure about the details.
i'm assuming it's a pretty quick process, in and out. but still. >> cnbc's jackie deangelis. i'll tell you, anything for a promotion. thank you so much. the war of words between hilary rosen and ann romney have resparked a debate between stay-at-home moms and working moms. why this topic just won't go away. that's next. t score before it gets too late ♪ ♪ and you end up strapped for cash ♪ ♪ patching your board with duct tape ♪ ♪ so hit free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ find out what credit's about ♪ ♪ or else you could be headed for a credit wipeout ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. ♪ ♪
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that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. enjoy hot and spicy food? it may help your cholesterol as well. new research states the ingredient that makes some peppers spicy, capsaicin oil, can prevent blood vessels from constricting and narrowing, which in turn can help prevent heart attacks and strokes. good morning, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. the agenda next hour, the old saying goes man may work from sun to sun but woman's work is never done. the latest in the left-right flap over which political party
supports a woman. and the newest political poll that locks president obama and mitt romney in a dead heat. then, the science of the republican brain. a new book dissecting the conservative skepticism about what science teaches. the author of this book, chris moony, will join me. and the hollywood power couple teams up to support marriage equality. half of that couple. actor nick offerman, from "parks and recreation" will be here. chris? >> you don't want to weigh in on the mommy wars, do you, thomas? >> i'm going to watch and learn. >> with great interest. thank you so much. thomas roberts. of course moms across the country now are taking sides. reacting to the controversial comment by democratic strategist hilary rosen, who said ann romney hasn't worked a day in her life. it has sparked quite a debate over some surprisingly familiar issues. >> reporter: maria smith is a suburban atlanta stay-at-home mom of three with a fourth on the way. she considers herself a liberal but was shocked when she heard hilary rosen's comments.
>> i felt offended. i felt mad. i felt like this is someone who i thought was on my side but actually really didn't understand me. >> reporter: she discovered she wasn't the only one with a visceral reaction. >> i have talked about this today at preschool pickup. i was at the playground talking with some moms about it. and i was kind of surprised at how many people have picked up on this story. >> reporter: a story that started out as a political discussion has revived a very different conversation. decades old. hitting an apparently still raw nerve about a woman's place. leslie jane seymour has worked at women's magazines for 25 years and is now editor of "more." >> welcome to the mommy wars version 2012. i bet you that every single woman on the train, my train home tonight is going to be talking about this. somebody threw one little match in the pile there, and the whole thing ignited. >> reporter: that's clear from impassioned posts on the comments sections of news and women's websites like our own ivillage. >> women are not a monolithic
interest group -- >> reporter: kelly wallace is chief correspondent for ivillage and a working mom. >> this debate totally resonates. i think about this issue all the time because i of course feel conflict like i think so many other women. when i hear my little ones running around at the playground and i'm not there, i think, wow, i wish i could be there. it doesn't get any more emotional, i think, than the mommy wars. >> reporter: on the huffington post a columnist suggests that for the election the hilary rosen kerfuffle means absolutely nothing but for women it's giving new life to an unsettled and unsettling debate. and this has sparked so much passion. i wanted to bring in two of the working moms in that story, kelly wallace and lesley jane seymour. were women talking about it on the train last night, lesley? >> all the way home. everything. everybody's on fire about this. you know, you can't win on either side. if you're at home, if you're working, you feel guilty, you're short-changing somebody. i've worked, and i've been at home, and neither one makes you
feel like you've made the perfect choice. >> you know, my excuse is going to be that i'm not a mom. but i was so wrong on this. because in our meeting yesterday i said we fought this 20, 30 years ago. >> no. no, no, no. we were actually talking about this in the green room in terms of talking about this 10, 15 years ago. no, because it is so raw. and that is it. because i think women on both sides feel it. we feel our own conflict. we feel our own insecurities. and as much as we want to say that the judging doesn't go on, unfortunately it does. and i think what really sort of just struck this chord here is that question of never worked, right? a day in her life. and we would all agree working moms or moms who are at home that, you know, working and raising kids is one hell of a job. >> if you've done, it i'm telling you -- i know a lot of people who can't wait to get to work to get away from the home work at home, with us a lot tougher. >> an amazing story yesterday about going to drop your child off at was it daycare and what another mother said to you? >> oh, no, these are friends of
mine. and i love them all dearly. we were having this conversation. when i was the editor in chief of "redbook." this is 15 years ago. did the original mommy wars story. and they actually said to me, well, you know, i decided to stay home and quit my job because i love my children. and i said -- >> obviously, you didn't love your -- >> i must not love my children. and it was a terrible thing on that side, too. so the barbs keep going. but what i find interesting is we're all sitting here saying isn't it over? i think what happened is it went underground, and what's happened is the twittersphere and all of that anonymity, we're allowed to say what we really feel. it was never resolved. >> right. >> and that's what you're seeing now. >> and this was sort of as you said in the piece, you know, you threw a match and boom. >> yes. i do think of course with social media, i mean, twitter, you watch this story, too, build on twitter and facebook, on ivillage. and i also -- i do think that what got -- we got away from a little bit was the core of the argume argument, which was what hilary
rosen had said and didn't say well, obviously. >> i hope she's at home today. >> because we hear from a lot of women at ivillage who were talking about the issue of which candidate can be more in touch with the economic struggles that working men and women are facing every day. but we kind of got away from that because of this issue. and again, i think social media in part played a big role in that. >> but it's not not a real issue. and that's the thing. that it may not be a campaign issue, but to say it's not an issue for women to still work out isn't right. it's a real issue for us. >> and obviously this is not the first time it's come up. let's go back 20 years. i can't believe it's been 20 years. and play something for you. >> ooh. >> i could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what i decided to do was to fulfill my profession, which i entered before my husband was in public life. >> the first match. >> this is what we heard. we heard women saying this yesterday, saying this reminds me exactly of the criticism of hillary clinton. again she also many years later would say i wish i didn't say it exactly like that because she didn't mean to be demeaning of
women who made that choice. i have to say personally, lesley, i don't know how you felt, but i didn't have as much respect, i will be honest, for women who chose to stay at home before i had kids. i saw these women who were leaders in the workforce, had these degrees, had all this power, and i felt like they were leaving it. i feel so differently now with kids. i think it is a choice. we want to fight for the power to have the choice. we want to respect the choices that every woman makes. and i don't think it's fair for us to think that just because a woman made one choice she can't really connect with some of the decisions and choice that's other women made. that's what was at the core of this. >> well, it's a tough choice in either case because you're giving up something big, which is economic power, independence, to be home and do something that is hugely important. i mean, to change children's lives, to direct their lives. but we're not being paid for it. so maybe the whole solution is to get out and say let's give -- let's make it work at home and let's give them -- >> awful these comments i've seen -- i've seen the comments piling up. i want to read something that was on our facebook.
"i feel hilary rosen comments were just this. ann romney didn't really have to make a choice because her husband made enough money that she didn't have to say to herself if i don't go to work there will be no food or less food on the table. where will the money come from to pay for the house, heating bills, children's clothes, and many more everyday expenses. that is what hilary rosen was saying, not anything against stay at home moms, because let's face it most moms that work would like to have the choice of staying home but didn't have that choice." >> she was talking about an economic issue. she really meant to say that rather than not having -- >> because i do think, we were talking internally a little bit, too because we feet like you said the mommy wars 2012, it's sort of the new evolution of the mommy wars, which is that so many women who are working as this woman said would rather stay at home, would want the choice but because of the economic climate they can't. >> but don't we have to as women stop judging other women for the choice -- >> and you know what? and that is the real name of the
game that's out there right now. i see it as a magazine editor for "more" in aging, in choices, in dress. and we are so completely judged. and we've made a business out of being judgmental on each other. >> we were talking about this earlier too. i think judging also comes from the conflict, right? we all feel conflict. you feel conflict. all women. men too. but i think what happened is we all have our internal conflict about the decisions we make or the choices we can or can't make and sometimes the reaction to that is to judge others. >> and i think ultimately the bigger question is going to be is this going to spark a serious political discussion about these issues, about what we can do for working women in america, and ultimately will it maybe propel some women to get involved in politics? because until we have more women in state legislatures, until we have more women in governor's houses and so on -- >> go ahead. >> no, no, i think that that would be the hopeful thing out of it. my fear is that this is just that overnight conflagration and then it goes away and we get on
to something else. but that would be a wonderful thing. that would be great. >> i was thinking about it yesterday. i was thinking this keeps happening, we keep debating women irks. how great if we had two presidential candidates who are women debating those issues. >> and as you know if you get more women into business, you get them into government, things go better overall for everybody. >> lesley, kelly, what a great conversation. and it is continuing. apparently all across america. thank you so much for coming in. >> and for today's tweet of the day we had to revisit newark, new jersey mayor cory booker's heroics, saving that neighbor from a burning building. the atlantic's jeffrey goldberg writes, "cory booker was on the way home from sabotaging north korean missile program when he saved that newark resident from a house fire." comedian frank con nif tweets, "not to be outdone by cory booker, chris christie just ran into a bakery and saved a tray of cinnamon rolls from burning." and tim cameraody, "cory booker
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hold on. a boarding bulldog and a rodent run. let's go down to the wire. this vietnamese police officer went to great lengths to get his man. the traffic cop was trying to pull the bus over. it wouldn't stop. so the officer jumped onto the front. it was pulling away. and literally held on to the windshield for about a half a mile. at one point the bus was going 30 miles per hour. now to the animal portion of oufr segment. meet decker, a 69-pound skateboarding bulldog. his owner taught him how to ride about a year ago. they do it every day. and decker is, yes, the inspiration for the dog pound logo for my cleveland browns. in louisville it is the 40th annual run for the rodents. get it? it's a takeoff on the kentucky derby. anyway, students, faculty, and staff at spalding university raised money for charities with
the annual race. this year's winner, liberatchi. i don't know if he plays piano. and check out this big catch in wisconsin. the department of natural resources reeled in the largest fish in the history of its tag and release program. a sturgeon 87 inches long, weighing 240 pounds. so that means if it was 25 years old, grover cleveland was president. >> really? >> yeah, really. and our list of the day, notorious friday the 13ths. the largest earthquake in north america hit in 1964. a virus infected hundreds of ibm computers, 1989. fidel castro born 1926. al capone sent to prison, 1931. and bank robber butch cassidy born april 13th, 1866. that wraps up this hour of "jansing & co." i'm chris jansing. thomas roberts is up next.
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