tv The Daily Rundown MSNBC May 1, 2012 6:00am-7:00am PDT
that's me today. >> i learned powers of persuasion to bring about a historic middle east plan in 1979. way too early. we'll see you tomorrow. one year after the killing of osama bin laden president obama and mitt romney teams battle over who is playing politics with the death of the world's most notorious terrorist. it's a bruiser for the hoosiers. after almost four decades he is fighting for his political life in a republican primary one week from today. he has more on the line? lugar or the tea party. and another murdoch news, rupert that is. this morning britain's house of commons delivers a devastating
assessment of the news corporation leader's leadership. they say he is not fit to run his company, the man who runs fox news. tuesday, may 1st. this is "the daily rundown." i'm chuck todd. today's anniversary of the successful capture and killing of osama bin laden has become a war of words. mitt romney trying to neutralize obama's signature foreign policy accomplishment. on the trail in new hampshire romney took a cheap swipe at the president trying to minimize his role in the mission. >> you wouldn't have given the order? >> even jimmy carter would have given that order. >> the president defended his campaign's web video narrated by
bill clinton which suggests romney would not have made the call. >> i recommend that everybody take a look at people's previous statements in terms of whether they thought it was appropriate to go into pakistan and take out osama bin laden. i assume that people meant what they said when they said it. >> of course, doing the jimmy carter line is why the president said that at that joint press conference a couple of hours later. what was the president referring to? these romney comments from 2009 the first time candidate obama advocated this policy in pakistan. >> if we have actionable intelligence about high valued terrorist targets and president will not act, we will. >> remember at the time obama's democratic rivals jumped on the comments and then senator joe biden said it's a naive way of going about conducting the
policy. mitt romney had this to say to reporters. >> i do not concur in the words of barack obama in a plan to enter an ally of ours and their country in a manner complete with bombings and forth. i think his comments were ill timed and ill considered. >> both of these guys having run four years ago. there is a lot of stuff in the archive. there is a big caveat here about what mitt romney has said and what barack obama has said. romney and obama have had surrogates who were formerly opponents. today romney will try to neutralize by campaigning in new york city with america's mayor rudy giuliani.
giuliani was on the opposite side of the issue in 2007. >> i would take that option if i felt there was no other way to crush al qaeda and no other way to capture bin laden. i think pakistan has not been making the efforts that they should be making. >> i think barack obama is confused as to who are our friends and who are our enemies. he wants to potentially bomb a nation which is our friend. >> there you go the 2007 debate where rudy giuliani was taking bomb's side. this morning on cbs romney left the carter language in new hampshire but said any thinking american would order the decision. >> and the idea to try to politicize this and say i'm president obama and would have done it one way and mitt romney
would have done it another is really disappointing. let's not make the capture and killing of osama bin laden a political device and event. >> the president took issue with the criticism that his campaign has been using the bin laden anniversary for political campaign. >> i hardly think you have seen excessive celebration taking place here. i think that people, the american people rightly remember what we as a country accomplished in bringing to justice somebody who killed over 3,000 of our citizens. >> the obama campaign is more than happy to have this political fight front and center and this morning romney did his best to walk the fine line of trying not to be the guy who minimizes the bin laden take down while making the obama campaign look small.
>> i think them taking credit for the right decision is appropriate but i think trying to attack me on the basis is disappointing and the wrong course. >> moments ago romney released a statement. romney may not want to go after the president too aggressively. listen to this tough language from the man who has turned himself into the surrogate for the republican party. john mccain. >> to now take credit for something that any president would do is indicative of the kind of campaign we are seeing and i have had the great honor of serving in the company of heroes. you know the thing about heroes, they don't brag. >> for what it's worth the advice you are going to hear more about this on wednesday
vice president biden, defense secretary gates were advising against doing this mission so this was not a clear cut piece of advice the president was given. one of those advisors retired mike mullen. had thoughts on the way the politics are playing out in this issue and shared them with brian williams. >> i do worry a great deal that this time of year that somehow this gets spun into election politics. i can assure you that those individuals who risked their lives, the last thing in the world they would want is to be spun into that. i am hoping that that doesn't happen. >> you can see more of that interview tomorrow in our hour long special documentary inside the situation room at 9:00 eastern on your local nbc station.
for all the grief the obama campaign is getting for whether they are politicizing the issue. the campaign is up with an ad that they are calling swift bank account which is going to run beginning today in ohio, iowa and virginia. according to nbc's ad trackers the campaign has over $500,000 in ohio and iowa and also bought time in richmond. it's the third ad that is both a response ad and an attack which seems to tie romney to an outside group. in this case it's americans for prosperity which made a $6 million buy last week. >> half a billion to an electric car company that created hundreds of jobs in finland and tens of millions of dollars to build traffic lights in china. >> independent fact checkers have had big problems with this ad. the washington post glen keszler
gave it four pi noekios. this morning the obama campaign responded. >> over the top, erroneous, out of context. president obama's clean energy initiatives have helped create jobs for projects across america and not overseas. as a corporate ceo he shipped american jobs to places like mexico and china. he is still pushing tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas just what you expect from a guy who had a swiss bank account. >> the ad really had nothing to do with swiss bank accounts. it appears to be an attempt to get the phrase swiss bank account into the campaign stream. the battle between both campaigns. obama campaign trying to define him as out of touch. responded by saying --
what's interesting here is the romney campaign has not responded to these obama ads when they have come observe. will they this time? on the one-year anniversary of osama bin laden's death the obama campaign is getting a lot of grief for a campaign video put out. team obama says it is fair to ask what mitt romney would have done. joining me now is romney's foreign policy advisor. >> hi, chuck. >> i want to ask specifically first on mitt romney's phraseology in new hampshire even jimmy carter would have done that? >> it was courageous when president obama made the
decision to activate seal team six to take out osama bin laden was a great decision. just about every u.s. president would have made that decision. >> why do you say that? can we stop here? it's public record. defense secretary robert gates, vice president biden and a couple of others in that room. it was a 55/45 call. >> there is only one person who there is lots of disagreement in matters of foreign peace. the president has to make the call. the president of the united states is told we have someone who seems to resemble osama bin laden. the intelligence points it's osama bin laden. it's our one shot to take him out. the president can make that call. i have to believe i don't know whether every single president in the united states would have done it but it seems like just about every president given the stakes and the significance
would have made that call. to me it's not a political issue. the president deserves tremendous credit for making the call. democrats and republicans praised barack obama a year ago when he made this decision including mitt romney. it's not a political issue. it's sad that it has become a political issue. >> i think what sort of sparked the debate of going back to 2007 and the back and forth was governor romney's sort of shot at former president carter. do you think that was a fair way of sort of responding that even jimmy carter when jimmy carter did order a raid like this that didn't work? >> i think what governor romney was saying even president carter who is known not to have been very decisive on issues of war and peace and has failed in some respects in war and peace and
had a very uneven record made the point that just about every president would have made the call. it's not a political issue. even presidents on the left would have made this decision. he is just trying to move beyond the politics. we are lost in this political debate about this issue right now. >> what we are going back to is the back and forth in 2007 when obama came back and said if he had actionable intelligence and pakistan wouldn't act he would act without consulting an ally on that front. mitt romney at the time said i do not concur in the words of barack obama. i do not think those help to draw more friends to our effort. >> let's be really clear here. we are now bogged down in trying
to re-create events that were basically tactical decisions. the strategic objective of getting osama bin laden is an objective that the president of the united states shared with governor romney. the objective of getting osama bin laden was something of enormous strategic importance to the united states. we make tactical decisions about what the circumstances would be and hypothetical situations. this is an absurd debate. it was a real life event. >> about dealing with pakistan about whether you do this unilaterally. it turned out not to be a hypothetical. so was that not a relevant part of that debate in 2007? >> sure. the obama campaign is also pointing to this line about romney saying he wouldn't have moved heaven to earth which was totally taken to context. everyone knows romney clarified that within a couple of days. he said getting to osama bin
laden is a necessary but not sufficient step in the path to winning the war on terrorism. you can't just take out bin laden and think we are done and he was concerned that everything was focused exclusively on bin laden. it was not the only thing we needed to do. >> another thing that happened yesterday was the president asked his counter terrorism advisor to go public in describing how predator drones, how they are used and how the orders are given and what rules they use when they decide to use a drone attack, an unmanned attack to go after a terrorist target. do you think that was appropriate? john brennan said he did this because the president wanted to be more transparent. do you think this was the right call given your experience in the bush administration? >> here is what i'm uneasy with.
i'm uneasy with sort of a partial release of a lot of information. so i personally do not think providing this information is prudent. i think -- i have spoken to a number of security experts who think releasing this information can be compromising. i am also concerned about if you see some of the memos released in the last week in the leadup to the anniversary of the bin laden assassination. incomplete information in a way that is not really about advancing our security interests. >> given the larger conversation and the criticism that the u.s. has been given on predator drones do you think it was about time for the government to acknowledge it? >> i do not. >> all right. chief romney foreign policy
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support. the state treasurer and candidate joins me now, richard murdoch. i want to start with the news of the morning. dick lugar's campaign is up with a new attack ad against you saying you have already sold a couple of different ads. one is that you have already sold out to d.c. outsiders. let me ask you this. are you comfortable with the fact that there are a lot of outside groups, not indiana groups, club for growth, other groups have come into indiana to support you? >> i can't help but note the irony that i'm the d.c. understainsider running against someone who has been in washington. am i reflecting some sort of special interest group? i probably am and they are called conservatives.
they have been trying to unite conservatives to put more in the u.s. senate. >> what is it about dick lugar's record that is somehow unrepublican? >> he has moved away from the way hoosier republicans see conservatism. with his votes against trying to get the budget under control hoosiers are rebelling against. we have been fortunate in indiana. our state is one of two who has gone through the entire economic crisis without going in the red because we live by the principle you ought not spend more than you take in. they want to see what we have had in indiana carry to our national capital. >> you are hitting them on the judge's front. there seems to be a lot of conservatives that believe and a lot of liberals that believe that a president should get some benefit of the doubt on their
judicial appointments. are you saying that no matter who president obama appoints to the federal bench you will oppose that person under any circumstance? >> no. i'm not saying that at all. that classic argument as you laid it out is about whether or not elections have consequences. i know there are conservatives who said the president was elected. he or she ought to be able to appoint whoever they like. i believe elections should have consequences. elections to the senate should have consequences. otherwise the article about advice and consent become rubber stamp. i would have been looking for those people who are originalests or strict constructenests. >> what is your standard. in 2008 with president obama does that mean that indiana
senators should go along or should not go along with what the residence of indiana wanted in the oval office? >> how any state goes along for president is a separate election for who they elect for the senate. i think the standard ought to be and i make no message about trying to hide. i think people ought to be looking for those who would serve on the courts who are going to strictly interpret the united states constitution. that was not the case of the nominees coming forward. >> if a republican is elected in presidency and basically all 50 democrats because they believe that romney's picks are against it and they oppose it that's fair grounds you are saying? >> certainly it's fair grounds. what the democrats did with constructing appointments in the
1980s they had the right to do it because they felt their elections had consequences. as one member of the united states senate i will carry that same with me that that election ought to have consequences. >> i'm going to ask you about this new attack ad that lugar has accusing you of using junk bonds, investing in junk bonds with chrysler and suing chrysler to cover up the mistake. your response. >> that's the last gasp of a very desperate campaign. he wants to criticize me for investing in a company that had deep indiana roots. he wants to say it was a failing company. when the u.s. taxpayers took it over he didn't say a word of protest for them taking over that so-called dangerous investment. we invested through the indiana state police pension fund.
we hoped to be part of their success. we never imagined that their rights would be stripped away in an unprecedented manner. we took that fight and we are proud that we did so. >> governor mitch daniels is supporting richard lugar. i assume you are a supporter of mitch daniels. what does that say to conservative voters in your state? >> three times before i began this campaign the governor we had the discussion as to what he would do and he made it clear that his 45 year friendship and his oldest daughter's godfather is lugar. friendship and loyalty are more important. the governor and i are on good terms and we will be after this primary. >> the candidate, republican challenger to dick lugar. thanks for coming on this morning. stay safe on the campaign trail. up next a stunning review of
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defended the use of predator drones saying strikes are ethical during the armed conflict. >> there is nothing in international law that bans the use of remotely piloted aircraft for this purpose or that prohibits us from using lethal force. at least when the country involved can sense or is unable or unwilling to take action against the threat. >> john brennan said he made those comments at the behest of the president. new jersey governor chris christie is making a political pitch for a fellow governor walker. he raked in over $13 million this year to defend himself in that recall election. the democratic primary is next week. the big recall is june 5th.
up next we are taking a second deep dive into the stand your ground laws. some people are calling it a license to kill. following trayvon martin's death they are getting a new look. today you will see more investigating in florida. advocates say the law is widely misunderstood. we will have that conversation after the break. you are watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. hotels.. if you're looking for a place to get together, you came to the right place. because here at hotels.com, we're only about hotels. finding you the perfect place is all we do. welcome to hotels.com.
that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. a flue -- a florida task force meets today. back into this battle over whether the law protects citizens or gives citizens a right to kill. governor has formed his own group to look into the law and released these recommendations
including giving law enforcement more leeway to inspect. the plan includes a grand jury review for every stand your ground case and a system that tracks cases in which people use it. currently that doesn't exist in florida. opponents point to fbi figures that show the number of justifiable homicides have risen from 1,116 to 1,304 between 2006 and 2010. supporters of the law point to statistics that show since 2006 the year 14 states joined the state of florida that the violent crime rate had fallen more than 13%. the national murder rate was down almost 15%. supporters say they believe there is a connection between
the new laws and drop in violent crime. the assumption of more hands means less crime is overly simp bli alistic. new york mayor says it is about the gun lobbying and the nra. >> in reality the nra's leaders weren't interested in public safety. they were interested in promoting a culture where people take the law into their own hands and face no consequences for it. let's call that by its real name, vigilanteism. >> joining me now is economist, john lot, the author of a book, "more guns less crime" a lot of interest from people on this law. let me start with your response to mayor bloomberg that these
laws simply encourage vigilanteism. >> i have heard the mayor describe them as shoot first laws. nothing to be further from the truth. you have to understand where the laws were before. before people had to retreat as far as possible before they could act in self defense. this setup was a reasonable person standard that if a reasonable person would feel that you were seriously threatened and in serious risk of serious injury or death then you could use appropriate force and respond. it is not to decide for yourself. >> but inherrant in this argument is let's look at the trayvon martin case. there is only one living witness. >> that's true in almost all murders. >> and so using the stand your ground you can't interview a dead person who cannot sit there and tell you their side of the
story and find out whether george zimmerman used an appropriate force or not. >> that's like saying we can't get convictions on any murders. we might as well give up in murders in general. we have lots of forensic evidence and witnesses who saw it from the side. this is not something that law enforcement has an unusual case in front of them. what i will say is no matter whose story is right the stand your ground law is not relevant to the george zimmerman, trayvon martin case. if george zimmerman is right that the wounds on the back of his head, that he was on the ground, trayvon martin was on top of him beating him, there was no place for him to retreat. and so the old defense even if he had the rule that you have to retreat as far as possible he still would have been able to act in self defense there. if the other side is right that somehow george zimmerman
provoked the attack, attacked martin to begin with then he wouldn't be able to rely on the stand your ground law to protect him in that case either. the stand your ground law doesn't allow you provoke and attack, doesn't allow you to throw the first punch or shoot somebody in the back. you have to pass this reasonable person test that you are in direct threat, serious injury or death was going to occur. >> here is what i don't understand about this law. it strikes me as a law that is a solution in search of a problem. it was not a wide spread problem here of suddenly people feeling as if they were walking the streets and because of the way, the role the nra played in getting the rules passed. it was a law intended to justify gun ownership. >> you should read "more guns less crime" because the third edition has lots of examples
where we had problems before. these laws didn't arise in a vacuum. one case is a 67-year-old man. he pulls into a grocery store parking lot. a robber knocks him down. the 67-year-old man tries to run away. he gets knocked down a second time. tries to run away a third time and gets punched and knocked down a third time. at that point he fatally shoots the robber. the prosecutor said he still could have done more. he could have run away further and took him to trial. there is no prison involved there. he got probation. here you are talking about somebody having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in defense. the thing is you have those types of examples in state after state that it occurs. >> where is this an epidemic? i mean, you can find one or two examples and i understand the one the florida law was based on
following a hurricane. what is to prevent stand your ground from being used as the basis to deal with some sort of gunfight between two people that own guns legally who have an argument? >> if you have somebody that just goes and commits murder then it is handled like any other murder case. i can't just claim stand your ground and say fine and walk away. in the vast majority of cases you use the gun in public you are going to be arrested. that is virtually always the case unless the police are completely sure about what happens. >> do you think some parts of stand your ground in the state of florida to basically not allow a judge to deny somebody who is using the stand your ground defense to deny a jury from getting that person in front of a jury?
do you think that part needs refining? >> it is up to the prosecutor whether or not to bring the case. if you think they are ready to bring the cases i suppose. look at this case. this prosecutor didn't go to the grand jury. you were talking about safe guards that were there. there was a reason the prosecutor didn't go to the grand jury. you know the old story about prosecutors could indict a ham sandwich. the reason why they didn't do it is when you read the affidavit there are huge holes in the affidavit. they don't deal with the police report and the witnesses that indicated that martin was on top. >> we are finding out that the law enforcement officials believe that stand your ground was going to be used and there was no way around it. >> i don't see how that is
relevant. explain to me the logic there. there were others that didn't think it had anything to do with it. if zimmerman attacked martin or provoked him it wouldn't be relevant. it martin was on top of zimmerman there is no place to retreat. whether you have stand your ground or the previous standard would make no difference. how is this relevant to the debate. gun control proponents have latched on to this because they think they can use this. what it tells you is how few problems have occurred with this law. we have had 41 states that have either castle doctrines or stand your ground laws. another six have rules involving common law type things. yet we have like in the new book we show people have concealed hand gun permits. there are like no problems.
this is the one they have to try to latch on to. >> i have to leave it there. i am running up against a hard break. we'll be right back. mitt romney will be talking about a lot of stuff trying to shed some light on what is going on beyond bin laden politics. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about market volatility. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 in times like these, it can be tough to know which ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 way the wind is blowing. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we're ready with objective insights about ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 the present market and economic conditions. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and can help turn those insights into ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a plan of action that's right for you. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 so don't let the current situation take you off course. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you know you could just use bengay zero degrees. medicated pain relief you store in the freezer. brrr...see ya boys. [ male announcer ] new bengay zero degrees. freeze and move on.
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suit and ann romney had this colorful blouse. mitt romney will do one-on-one interviews with fox but when he goes in front of the broadcast networks to talk to more people outside -- >> he needs his body guard. >> he has ann with him. >> everyone has noticed it. he doesn't really take questions. it was surprising that he did that yesterday with the osama bin laden question. he doesn't have a consistent press playing either which also limits access. it is surprising that he has been able to get away with this as long as he has. >> actions and visuals speak louder than words. every time ann romney says he is wild and fun you say really? i think it would be going if ann were on top of the ticket and mitt were explaining ann. >> you think the romney people
regret it. it is what opened up a larger conversation. >> they certainly walked back from it today. you don't hear them making that comparison anymore. and lost. >> and by the way, because of it, we have special forces today. >> yes. >> we have new ways we operate because of this. >> it's also true that jimmy carter served in the armed forces for ten years, unlike mitt romney or barack obama. so i think -- one gets the sense that they regret making that comparison. >> because i want to save time and have time. we're going to take the break. stick around. the trivia, though, we wondered -- the answer 1980. that's the question i intended, but i gave you credit because we did ask the last time that the
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let's bring back your panel. who's got more on the line in the indiana senate race, james bennett, the tea party or dick lugar? >> i would say dick lugar. >> yeah. it's obviously the easier answer, but i have a point i want to make there. >> the tea party, there's been a lot of speculation this movement is burning itself out, that it may have burned itself out. one of the things you hear from politicians that do a lot of town halls is they don't see the tea party guys popping up as much anymore. >> not quite as well organized. >> on the other hand, they were able to take out bob bennett in utah during the last cycle. dick lugar is top target this time around. this would be a big win for them. >> steve, is dick lugar losing
because he's not conservative enough or will he lose this primary because he didn't know what address was on his -- >> the answer is yes. both. >> i think he survives if it wasn't for this issue. >> the tea party may be less strong than two years ago but it forced orrin hatch into a primary and it looks like it's on the verge of taking out dick lugar. he lost touch with the folks in indiana when his opponent announced most of the county chairmen for the republicans endorsed dick lugar. it's a test tomt the fact that dick lugar seems to have lost touch with indiana voters. >> but nia, the result is going to be, by the way, we'll get -- and you've heard this from murdoch today -- hey, if the president -- if a democratic president is for it, he's going to be against it when it comes to at least judges. and it could be another issue. and we know there's going to be an equally strong reaction on the left when it comes to republicans. so we are headed to more
polarization, not less, in the short term. >> no, i think that's exactly right. you see romney trying to blame obama on this, saying he's the most racist president ever and going after -- what people consider his strength is he was a uniter, not a divider. i think more polarization is to come. >> from mitt romney, everything is obama's fault. bush was pretty polarizing. incumbent presidents are. >> in a polarized country. >> right. that's how we're all viewing this. >> the larger picture, even taking national politics out of it, moderates are disappearing from the house and the senate. >> that's just a fact. that is a fact. shameless plug, steve, go. >> ted leonsileonsis' washingto capitals have their mojo going and will go all the way. >> i hope so. >> my big brother, c.j. henderson, a writer for "the netwo network" comes out in june. proud of him. >> looking forward to it. james? >> my colleague, jim fowler.
read his blog, which i shame lelsly ripped off in answering you. >> that's it for "the daily rundown." see you back here tomorrow. up next on msnbc, chris jansing. bye-bye. gloomy weather much of the new england today, boston, providence, hartford, periods of rain. showers for d.c. as far as thunderstorms go, most of the airports should be okay today. late in day today strong storms around minneapolis. ♪
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