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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 9, 2012 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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and that vogue, obviously is a huge determiner of culture, and it'll be interesting to see, up with of those things that takes a decade it see. very interesting. thank you so much. that will do it for us. i'm ditian rylan ratigan, "hards up right now. evolution concluded. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in new york. leading off out of the closet. president obama nor years has said his opinion on same-sex marriage has been evolving. today the president told the news yes, gay couples should be able to marry. >> i just concluded that for me personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that i think same-sex couples should be able to get married.
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>> with that one line, barack obama became the first american president ever to take such a stand. how would it affect the upcoming election? that's what i want to know. also the reaction from gay right community. how can a person vote for a candidate who stand against their right it marry and perhaps against a candidate for it. plus another veteran bites the dust. richard's defeat at the hand after republican who says never ever compromise with democrats, is the latest example of how the gop is becoming a tea party. and game on in wisconsin. candidate are set, polls are tight. can democrat unseat scott walker. the man who knows so much about that race. msnbc's ed shult joins me tonight. let me fin wish president obama once again making history. we begin with the evolution of gay marriage. tom hall prin, eugene and also, an msnbc political analyst. gene, i want you to start here.
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first of all, let's get the interview here. interview with "good morning america's" robin roberts this afternoon. the president unequivocally gave his support to same-sex marriage. let's listen. >> i have to tell you that over the course of several years as i talk it friends and family and neighbors, when i think about members ever my own staff who are incredibly committed in month nothing moss same sex relationships who are raising kids together, when i think about the soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors, fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that don't ask don't tell is gone, because they're not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point i just concluded that for me
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personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that i think same-sex couples should be able to get married. >> very dramatic response came right after the president's remarks today. new york city mayor michael bloomberg released this statement pointing out the historic nature of the president's statement. this is major turning point in the history of america's civil rights. no american president has ever supported a major expanse of civil rights that has ultimately been adopted by the american people. i have no doubt this will be no exception. today's announcement is a test many to the president's convictions. all that said, eugene robinson, you know the history. especially of civil rights. my question is that is the president ahead of the curve, ahead of parade, or with it safely enough to have this not heard of in the campaign? >> it is unclear what the net impact will be. i don't think you can say it is safe at this point. you know the polls showing
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perhaps majority of americans supporting gay marriage. you know that, that those -- that support is not equally distributed across the united states and it certainly is stronger and some states like new york for example, than it is in other states like north carolina, which defeated gay marriage by 20 point yesterday. and not coincidentally, or -- and coincidentally is a swing state that president would dearly love to win. but what i'm hearing from the white house is that this evolution in the president's thinking was completed in the last few months and he was determined to talk about it before the convention and that with all of the sort of, you know, in the air. the issue was current now and he decided to move up this announcement of his new position. >> let me go to mark halperin. is that something reportable before this event on sunday when joe biden went on meet the press and came out for it himself.
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was there a movement on the part of the president's people for him to come out, decision to declare before the convention. >> it is the widespread of the people on his campaign staff and an expectation he might do it. gene is right, there is no way it know what politics are. there are negatives and risk. on the positive side, i think mub one the president has energy and emotion on his side. this is historic for supporters and a lot of the younger voters. he has public opinion moving in his direction. also, let's be frank, the media is overwhelmingly in favor of same-sex marriage. that means it is not a fair fight. as he goes against mitt romney wrb, where they have con trafrting opinions, it is not a fair fight. governor romney talking about the reason this is a positive for the president, romney had questions to ask about which benefits he doesn't support. whether civil unions or some other relationship. he is not good at answering those kinds of questions. whether we talk about the
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negatives and risks, i think this puts the president in line with what he believes history is going, with public opinion polls and with most people in his party, including people who work for him. >> before we get to any more polling here, the real emotions of this come out when you see romney say he is for traditional marriage. using that word with all its power. where gay people, once they found out they were gay, thrown out of the military, denied access to military, u millathu d humiliated, that was tradition as well. why would anyone trust this with n a country that honors the expansion ever rights, not the restrictions. >> chris, that's a good question. i know a little bit about tradition. >> yes. you lived through it. >> it is not always a good thing. traditional beliefs and patterns of discrimination. look, the people do though have
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deep feelings about gay marriage. a lot of that feeling is religious, i understand. i haven't heard a snippet yet, but i understand that president in this interview with abc does talk about his religious beliefs and how he believes that at the core of christianity, the golden rule, that do unto others. and that that's inescapable as part of his christian faith. >> i guess the whole question is if you believe the polles. maybe the correct answer is to say you are for equal rights, equal marriage, marriage equality. but look at the latest gallup poll. half of americans say they support same sex. that a remarkable turn about from a few years ago. yet state after state gets to vote on this, in the voting booth on issues like constitutional amendments. like in north carolina yesterday when 61% voted against it.
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you have this over and over and over again. 61%. mark, how do we explain the distinction between the people will gladly tell a polster, yeah, i'm for gay marriage. but they walk into the booth on election day and in 32 states, they say, i don't believe in it. >> two things, primarily one is the amount of money that is sometimes spent in the states tends to skew. in most places. more toward the side. and there is a solid majority. that may have to turn out to vote in the off year elections for ballot measures but who would be more inclined to support gay marriage. aga again, there is political risk to the president in the state referendum ballot measures are the clearest sign of that. but public opinion polls are clear. things are movering in the direction of people supporting same-sex marriage. he may be ahead of it but he is not going against the grain. he is going with the flow of this. >> of course. george pataki said, don't get so
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far ahead of the parade that you can't hear the music. is the president still with the band on this? >> well, the cheney question will be big. >> which is? >> incumbent vice president supporting marriage equity. >> because? >> in part because of personal reasons but also because of a equal right. >> does anyone believe dick cheney would do this on his own, without his daughter being oriented the way she is? >> probably not. but it will be a hard question. have you the former dharman of the party. >> that's what i want to know. gene, this is a tough question for people who are gay. they today face discrimination. how a candidate with them 100% on an issue that mat so much to them, about being able to marry someone they love. and another candidate who says i will never evolve and let a campaign staffer drummed out of his office and doesn't lift a finger, richard, to stay in my
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office. please stay, richard. he wouldn't lift a finger for that guy. seems like an emotional choice for someone to say, i have to be with someone who embraces me and oppose someone who won't. >> i think it is going to be difficult for many gay republicans. perhaps not for all, but for many. because this is stark difference and both the candidate, romney, and i suspect the general view of today's republican party is so anti-gay marriage to the point of seeking cops tugs constitutional amendment, across the country for all time. that has to make people think. again they have it weigh that against their commitment for other issues. >> here is mitt romney. took a question this afternoon on gay marriage. here it is. >> my view is that marriage itself is a relationship between
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a man and a woman. that's my own preference. i know other people have differing views. this is a very tender and sensitive topic as are many social issues. but i have the same view that i've had since running for offers. >> you know in the past republicans like karl rove use this as a wedge issue. we have ohio, north carolina, a lot of the states you cover all the time, mark, as very much decisive states. do you think that people-in the super pac world like karl rove, will use this? >> i don't think you will see a lot of the super pacs like the one karl rove is associated with, spending money on television ads. trying to reach a big group. >> how about going through pastors? >> yes, i think you will see that. governor romney talked about this in a balanced way. this is my view. >> the high road guy. >> that's the key. some of the republican statement just blasting the president.
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the reason i think the president's position had political potency is because he made it clear in the interview and the course of evolving. there is a balance. there is liberty issue, family issues and civil rights issues. i think if people just talk about this as anti-gay, anti-equity, it will hurt them. mitt romney did something he doesn't normally do. he says, people can disagree with me, but this is my view. that goes to the view in chicago. this is not, as some people cast it, a slam dunk negative for the president. >> i think in a recent case, prejudice operating in this case and presidential prejudice and he didn't stop it. he has a lot to do rather than speaking to people with different views. >> think that i did strike home with people paying attention to it. and i think it struck home in
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the gay community and so romney -- i agree with mark. i thought his answer today was boater than the answer he usually gives, in terms of admitting that the other point of view is legitimate and if he goes forward in that way, then he minimizes the negativity. >> let's say he has a lot of allies that won't be so nice. and as the gangster once said, if you have a dog, you don't have to mark. thank you mark halperin. thank you eugene robinson. up next we hear pr a republican leader and democratic for another point of view. we will hear a lot the next couple minutes about the people most affected and most caring about this, feel what the president is staying. the president of united states is has come out for same-sex marriage. this is history. d
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brand new poll numbers out in another state, battle gound state, iowa. let's check the score board. president obama has a healthy lead in the hawkeye state, up 10 point over romney in iowa. 51-41. obama won iowa in -- actually 28 when george bush carried the state in 2004. we'll be right back. kiwi. soy milk. impulse buy. gift horse. king crab. rhubarb pie. lettuce shower. made by bees. toucan sam. that's not cheese. grass fed. curry. gingersnaps. soup can tower. 5% cash back. right now, get 5% cash back at grocery stores. it pays to discover.
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malia and sasha, they have friends whose parents are same-sex couples. there have been times when michelle and i have been sitting at the dinner table talking about their friends and parents and malia and sasha, it wouldn't dawn on them that somehow their friends' parents would be treated differently. it doesn't make sense to them. and frankly, that the kind ever thing that prompts a change of
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perspective. >> he's right on that. that's more from president obama today and his interview with robin roberts. a history-making announcement, going over right now with the gay community itself. president of the human rights campaign, and our clark cooper, exec tifr director of log can cabin republicans, who i wonder why they till exist. supported magnificently across the country without politics getting in the way, joe were you surprised? did you get heads-up? even before the vice president spoke out that this would be part after campaign run-up? >> well, i didn't get any heads-up but i was not surprised. and quite frankly, i was heartened, not just by the fact that president came out in support of marriage but in the way in which he did it. and i think he did so in a way that inspired lgbt people across the country.
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but also in a way that helped all people on this journey really find common humanity with him. he talked about the people he's met along wait. he talked about the folks who were overseas defending this country. he talked about a kitchen table conversation with his daughters and with the first lady. so it does a great deal, not just to inspire an empower and give hope to members of this community, but it goes a long way to really helping folks out there across the country who are on their own journey on this issue. >> let me ask clark. let's stay away from politics for two seconds with you. or two minutes even. gay people in this country, what do you think their reaction was in regardless of politics. >> positive tp it turns up the needle. the dialogue turned up to a level that it's not been at. up until this week, prior to the president's statement and vice president biden's statement was
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former vice president dick cheney. >> well, that's because his family situation, obviously. >> well, hey, that was -- >> would he be in front of this issue were it not for his family? >> well that's the case of most families. my family is on this issue because i came out. >> let me ask you about the announcement of president on abc. i said every republican staffer who is gay, man or woman, should go to their boss, man or woman, and say, why aren't you out on this issue. why aren't you supporting this issue? do you think there is a response to continue to pult put up with this refusal to support the equality. the republicans in capitol hill, do it and so it doesn't become a campaign issue. it both sides agree with it it isn't a campaign issue.
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>> it happened with the last congress on the repeal of don't ask don't tell. there were not anecdotal stories where staff members, chief of staff, legislative director did talk to their bosses. this is certainly not going away. polling reflects that, not just the general electorate but my side of the aisle among republicans. more and more republicans do support, not just support, but actually support some sort of status. >> i agree. you're a good guy but how do you stop the bad guyes. people like under karl rove who go to black clergy men and use this tore electoral votes. how do you stop people from exploiting bigotry? >> well there's two tracks. the principle track which is do the right thing. the right thing is, don't stand in the way of people. as good conservatives, don't heed upon one's liberty.
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there a conservative case for marriage, marriage equality. then the prag na tis em. hey, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. some did apply that rule in 2010 cycle. which is why you saw more gays vote in 2010. >> focusing in the economy grab yeah. >> it is the economy. exit polls, particularly in arizona, michigan, south caroline why, ohio, all show economy is number one issue. if you are not in favor of marriage equality then don't go there. >> okay. joe, i don't know how you play this or how you do this, but it is important to stop the bad people, the snickerers, gigglers, thinking, here is our chance to go after clara from another point of view, or john test. we will pin them in the next 24 hours. are they with the president or not. tim kaine in virginia. places where they are close electiones. where you can reach the cultural
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voters, black or white, grab them and move them to the other side of the fight on this issue. >> chris, you talked in the previous segment about political ramificatio ramifications. i think what cannot be ignored is that this is a choice between barack obama and mitt romney. clark is right. there are a lot of good republicans. but when it comes to governor romney it cannot be ignored that not only is he against marriage equality, he is committed to write discrimination in the constitution in the form of the marriage amendment and just this week says he doesn't support civil union. when it comes to young voters, inspiring a base vote, i don't care whether it is in missouri or montana, if t is a very distinct choice made here. again, i think the president spoke about this in terms today that all people can identify with, and i think that, you know, it'll serve him well. serve him well in this election cycle. and for republicans for for the
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governor, for governor romney to introduce this into the conversation would be to do so at his own peril. i agree with clarke. this is about an election cycle that are deeply personal things to people's life circumstances. >> clarke why do you think he staked out this position saying i will never evolve, i won't even consider civil unions. why doesn't he just jam it at you guys and women by saying, i'm not going to think about it. it is not on my table it think about tp i will never ever ever change. what a strange position for a guy who aej changed on so many issues over the years. changed on healthcare. but says on this issue, mitt romney is immunable. isn't that shoving it, you guys. >> i can't speak for romney or the romney campaign. >> why did he do it? on the all the issue -- >> who knows. >> this i will never change on. i will not evolve on. >> as we is seen with the
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president and with members of congress, people do change. there are members who voted for implementation of don't ask don't tell, who then voted to repeal it. voting one way in 1993 then in favor of repeal in 2010. it is possible. is it frustrating? absolutely. >> is there good news about romney? do you have any reason to believe he will change? >> oh, anybody can. >> do you think he will change? >> i'm not going to -- >> i think this is more a question of mitt romney's character than a question about marriage. he didn't stand up for the gi guy who felt he needed to leave the campaign when there was uprising from the right. he didn't stand up for the gay soldier from iraq who asked a question at the debate when the audience booed. and he is not standing up today. and i think it is much more a question about his character and about who he is than it is about his evolution on marriage. and i think that the mamerican people will come to see that.
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>> have you seen him clarke? have you talked to romney on this issue. >> i talked to him directly when he gave the first big speech about marriage and marriage status. i said we are working to repeal the defensive marriage act. he said i know you are. obviously we are going to agree to disagree on this point right at this time. again, i'm open to moving that needle. we are loent i organization that is actually in the trenches with our fellow republicans sitting down, talking, going over this, educating. if there is anyone who can sit down and get people to look at this, not only on principle but pragmatic. >> clarke, you're a good man. let me know if you find someone switching their position. we will have them on. it would be nice to hear one voice on the other side so we see something that is some what bipartisan here. thank you, joe. a big day i i think for gay
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people and all-americans really, to see a president, with the situation developing as it was, he was pushed to do it. but to take this political statement to the american people and do the world is history-maybing. once again i think our histopret is making history. thank you clarke for this conflicting position you have on this earth. what michele bachmann did on this show. now a citizen of switzerland. isn't that funny? we will bring up that in about a minute. what a revolting development. you're watch willing "hardball." the place for politics. ♪
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let detroit go broke and we'll figure something out after that. now he is saying, that he single-handedly saved the auto industry. mitt romney saying, i saved the auto industry and for the last 20 years i've been hosting "the tonight show." there you go. >> understand david letterman sticking it to romney. please, change the subject, mitt. we're in a side show. strange twist of fate for michele bachmann. she went off can colleagues in congress for being anti-american during an appearance here on "hardball." but guess this sb she has become a swiss citizens. we are talking switzerland. her husband of swiss decent. when he opted to register for citizenship she was automatically granted dual citizenship. here is the question of the day. what do you think she would have done in a democrat had done this? what the matter, american not
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good enough for you? you prefer socialism as compared to american freedom? what is it that you despise so much that you could wo take on a second nationality? switzerland has a healthcare mandate. finally, remember, rush, that's right, rush limbaugh is at it again. earlier comment about sandra fluke led to attackes from all over including one from the national organization for women. limbaugh has a counter attack. he started a facebook group for conservative women. listen closely for what he is calling it. snrs. >> sometimes later this month, the feminazis will be working with media matters for america and kicking offer some giant program, some coordinated plan to have me taken off the air under the premise that women hate this program. what about the women who like this program? what about women who believe in this program? there are many, many more of you than there are of them and rush
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i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. the dow loses 97 points, s&p off
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9 an nasdaq sheds 11. worries that spain may need to spend millions to shore up banks sent the stock market to its lowest level since 2003 taking down u.s. markets as well. meanwhile u.s. crude supply rose more than expected leaving oil to close below $97 a barrel. and after the bell, cisco reporting earnings, sending shares lower in late trading. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide, now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." a bruising loss for dick lugar of indiana. last night he fell to richard murdoch by more than 20 points. in this race is next another example of the power of the far right conservatives and tea party in the republican party wp with ne we now is the man who
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will face richard mourdock, joe donnelly. congressman donnelly, you're up against a far right tea partier. how is indiana a relatively conservative state, to put it mildly, go near the center and someone near the other end? >> we are a conservative state but also a practical state and the polls that have been on this race, the one independent poll shows myself tied with richard mourdock, our own polls show us ahead. he is a person, chris, here we are in indiana, one of the hearts of the auto industry, he single-handedly tried to destroy the american auto industry and is the leader in bringing a lawsuit to force the liquidation of chrysler. what it is about is mom or dad in fort wayne anderson, when they are sitting at at table, they know their the can make their mortgage payment, have a good education for the kids and retire with dignity.
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>> let's talk about the daily rundown today and where he stands with chuck todd. i'm amazed that people admit they stand like this. let's listen to him. >> bipartisanship ought to consist of democrats coming to the republican point of view. we wanted to be a a voice and be a national voice to the idea that republicans o and conservatives would be in the majority of united states senate, house and a republican in the white house. if we do that bipartisanship means they have to come our way. to me the highlight of politics frankly is to inflict my opinion on someone else in the microphone or in front of the camera, to win them over to my point of view. >> i've never heard the word inflict as a verb in going to congress. you are going to congress to inflict your views. what he does think the role is of other members of congress, just to lose? >> it is astonishing it hear. think of tip o'neill and ronald reagan working together. when i first came into congress, i've been privileged to serve
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with richard lugar for several years. he took me aside and said, look, on iraq and afghanistan, these are big issues. and our men and women are at risk here. and joe, ask me anything you want. talk to me about any of these issues. there's no dumb questiones. whatever you ask, it's between you and i. his only goal was, how do we make america stronger. that should be all our goals. what you hear here is the old kid who, when they play baseball, would show up with a ball and bat and say you either do it my way or you are going home. >> it's my ball, i'm going home with it. >> right. >> a moderate democrat, seems to me the moderate seats are the ones that will decide this thing, you, missouri, montana, states like that in the middle, and virginia, will decide the control issue. >> i don't worry about that stuff. because what i'm focused on is right here in indiana. i've said, i'll waum wauk from lake michigan to the ohio river
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if it adds ten more jobs here at home. >> thanks for coming on, joe donnelly. >> thank you so much. >> notre dame. go for it. let's look at next guest. writing on the significance of this race. jonathan, thank you so much. i want you to analyze what lugar said in his statement, saying both parties are guilty of having problems with any kind of negotiation because they have absolutely in-bed relationship on both sides and can't negotiate bp. >> yeah, that is a pocks on both your houses argument. i don't think it holds up. if you look at the examples that lugr came up with himself for why both parties are equally at fault, he said neither party wants to cut entitlements but obama cut entitlements and put more on the table. ed said, reform which obama is trying to make deals on and trade, no democrat. come trade. but obama also signed a few
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trade agreements too. so have you a pretty asymmetric polarization. >> republicans won't admit science or climate or talk revenues. >> right. >> are seen as anti-immigrant. they are not exactly ready to let's get together here. >> right. i think have you an asim mettic polarization which possibly lugar recognizes. but part of the problem is that everyone concerned about this trend that's been going on for 20, 20 to 30 years, feels compelled themselves to establish their own bipartisan bona fide so they have to say both parties do it when it is an asymmetric trend so they have a problem recognizing what's been going on. >> one of the tea party voters expect to get done? i understand the impulse because you are just angry at everything and you want it vote no, no, no. here is the question, once the person you send in to say no, no, no gets there, they can't get anything done because the democrats will never deal with somebody that says no, no, no,
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why should they? >> look, i don't blame them for wanting to vote for candidate who shares their views. i don't blame conservative republicans for wanting a more conservative republican than lugar who is pretty conserve tifr. i ive they think they can win the white house, have the majority -- >> the consequence of that is they end netherlands. if you cut spending problems, cut all that heat as a party, you will get trounced in the next election. one party taking on that kind of heat, hurting so many people without the cover of the other party helping them, by saying it is in the national interest is doomed. >> well, they believe in it. and they have to try. you have to admire that. >> do you? >> you have to admire believing in your ideas and taking a risk on it. >> so you want to be the one who goes to congress, cuts social security, cuts med cares.
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do they really want to do that? cut someone's health benefits. when someone goes in for an operation, sorry, congress voted against it. . your mother doesn't get the operation. how do you defend that stuff? >> i don't agree with their platform at all. but i'm just -- i think there's been a little bit after wave of commentary of holding a bipartisanship in and of itself as a positive value. if you have ideas that the other party doesn't agree with, you don't have to give them up. >> i have a very simple rule. if you lose an election, you recognize the other side won. cut the next deal in their favor, but you cut the deal. if you realize you are democrat, increase revenues. you got to accept cuts. perhaps the ratio is not too your liking but you know it has to be done. that's how tip and reagan did it. it'll be in the next book. and you're right, it is asymmetric. up next, game on in
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wisconsin. taking on governor scott walker. they got the mayor of milwaukee. this guy looks like he can beat the guy. ed schultz who knows everything there is to know about wisconsin is coming right here. little early tonight, to be on "hardball." the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering.
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from madison, wisconsin. here we are. because they are here. workers. wisconsinites. americans. protesting peacefully. in the greatest of american traditions. >> wow, that was ed shult. welcome back to "hardball." coming up, wisconsin governor recall election planned way back
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in february 2011 when thousands protested governor scott walker's push to limit union bargaining rights for public sector workers. ed 2011. ed schultz as i said there was and loud. and he got his challenger. the same mayor was there. >> we all have witnessed what has happened in this state over the last 16 months with scott walker starting an ideological self-state that has been divided like never been. family members shy away from talking to family members about politics because it gets too bitter. it does not have to be that way in wisconsin. >> so will the recall succeed? ed schultz is the host of a show
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here on msnbc. you are an expert and an advocate out there, labor strength, can they do the polling operation? >> they can and they will. that's what they're telling me. no broken noses over this, it was as clean as it could get for four democrats going for the nomination. and he is not the perfect candidate for labor, which speaks volumes about how wrong he has been. labor didn't even support the guy that won the democratic primary last night. tom barrett is a reasonable guy. the major of milwaukee was dealt a tough financial hand by scott walker because he took cuts and a billion dollars throughout the state. he boxed in barrett on a number of issues that will be the real challenge for barrett. he will say i was dealt a tough hand financially.
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he said he will restore the education cuts, most of them that scott walker was able to get through. this is as much about personality at this point as anything else. in the badger state they love debate and conversation. walker with such a heavy hand has come in and almost changed the personality of politics in that state. and it turned a lot of independents off. this is one of the things that played into barretts favor last night. he picked up a lot, and it will be who gets the vote. >> why do remembers come into issues like bad times. the minute they hit the governor's chair, they go right after public employees, teachers and firefighters, why do they do that? is it revenge? >> they're an easy target. they want something that did be
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vilified right away. it's now all of the activity supporting these guys and citizens united gave them the opportunity to ver row in, and they're taking their pest shot at it right now. they happen to be the focal point right now and it will be a battle, a photo finish, and who gets motivated, but we're talking about 15 months of intensity. >> is this a game of get out of vote, identifying voters, get them there by car service, identification or -- >> they go pick them up, boots on the ground campaign. labor will get into action. they're not all high on him either. james hoffitt told me this week that he's not the best candidate. >> and i said but he's the best
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thing you got going. he said i don't want walker -- >> okay, let me get you -- he says this will empower a lot of radical governor that's you can overreach in government. this is really what the people want, and really where we have to take the country. they're using this as a template. >> is the u.s. chamber behind it? >> no doubt, they will keep throwing money. the more money they throw in the more walker goes down in the polls. >> i love old time politics. this guy is everywhere. thank you ed schultz, watch him tonight at 8:00 eastern. when we return, let me finish with the history president obama made today. he keeps making history.
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>> let me finish with this, president obama remains a maker of history. he was the first african-american to serve as our president, and now the first for recognizing the marriage of partners of the same sex. he now stands for reelection with this fact on the table.
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he stands against mitt romney who says he will never give up his refusal of gay marriage. could there be a grander canyon between these two men? it will take a lit of time to see how this affects the presidential election. i have to wonder how gay men and women that work for the republican congress can sit in their work seats, cannot stand up and walk away. how long can they be servants and accept the don't ask don't tell program on working here and keeping your mouth shut on the life you aspire to and those you love. i honor a president who, regardless of all of the


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