tv Lockup Indiana MSNBC May 26, 2012 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
the hands of inmates who share intimate thoughts about life behind bars. there's just a lot of foul stuff that goes on in the indiana department of corrections. >> when i first got sentenced, man, i started stabbing police. you know, i targeted them. >> you see guys wearing their pants down to their knees, thinking they're cool and stuff. that would get you gang raped or something like that. >> when i first got to prison, like i said, i had blood on my
mind. i wanted to get my knife wet. >> we're on level four. we have the worst prisoners of any in the state here. you've got your murderers and rapists. we've got people in here with 400, 500, 600 years. up on the ranges we've got cameras. we've got people walking all the times. but still you can't be with them 24/7. if they want to jump somebody, they'll jump them. if they want to jump me, they can come right in my door and jump me. that's just the way it goes. that's prison. >> i try not to know what they're in here for. because i don't want to be -- like, i don't want this guy around me because he did this or he did, that you know. there's guys in here that you
know automatically why they're in here. i read the newspapers. i get two newspapers every day and i read them from one end to the other. i know what's going on. >> what is it? what is it? >> he ran away. >> hold up right there on the wall. >> in the initial seconds that officers respond to a report of a fight between inmates, the first challenge is sorting through a yard full of convicted criminals to determine who was involved. >> i don't know who was involved. >> was he involved? >> i don't know. >> oh, just hold up. >> suddenly, a "lockup" producer encounters the victim outside the prison's medical clinic. >> where? where do you want me? he is bleeding profusely from
deep slashes in his neck, stomach, arm, and leg. >> he just attacked me for no reason. oh, i'm sorry. >> that's all right. >> hey, what's his name? >> ellerman. >> call for the ambulance. >> hey, don't throw them away. they're brand, spanking new. can you put them in a bag, please? >> yes, sir. >> okay. we've got another cut up here, guys. >> okay. >> is this worse than this? >> no. it's okay. >> come on, man. >> while prison medics work on pat ellerman, officers continue their search for his attacker. >> we're looking for a long-haired white guy. he went mainstream. >> a white guy with long hair, right? >> i understand you have somebody that went to medical.
there was a long-haired guy. is he the one that went to medical? >> yes. >> that's affirmative. >> who was the second one? >> who was -- was there a third one? >> there was a third one. he took off. we can't identify him. >> knowing only that ellerman's attacker has long hair, officers detain an inmate. but soon determine he wasn't involved, and the search continues. >> come on. one at a time. come on, guys. let's go. step up. >> just hang on. anything in your pockets? take it out. >> just this right here. >> a short time later, another inmate is taken in for questioning. >> we've got one guy with one of the weapons. i already took the weapons up to the custody hall. >> there was extensive tendon damage to the affected arm. he won't be coming back here anytime soon. he's going to be transferred to a medical facility that's going to be able to deal with that
kind of damage. >> they called me in from home. right now we're in the crime scene, so watch your feet. >> see what these are. these are gravitational droplets. this is where he's walking and his hands are moving or he's got other wounds on him, and the blood is dropping from his body to the ground. >> the blood. so the actual incident might have taken place here, but they were struggling, it looks like, from up here all the way to the fence. >> it loox looks like a smeel. i can't tell if this is blood right now. it looks like a smear, like somebody fell down. like a mark that kind of dragged across. this is the victim's blood. >> after surveying the crime
screen, investigator chuck wheeler examines the weapon. >> it's an x-acto blade from a hobby craft box. took a little bit of time to put a couple pieces of wood together to hold it in place. this weapon will do a lot of damage. >> the suspect, michael ray stafford, is brought in for questioning. >> have a seat right there. do you want to tell me where you got the knifes from? coming up -- >> oh, i'm innocent. >> investigator wheeler finds both the suspect and the victim unwilling to cooperate. >> the victim doesn't want to be labeled as a snitch. [ engine turns over ] [ male announcer ] we began with the rx. [ tires squeal ] then we turned the page, creating the rx hybrid. ♪ now we've turned the page again with the all-new rx f sport. ♪ this is the next chapter for the rx and the next chapter for lexus.
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and taunt him long enough, he's going to bite you. you put him around 50 other dogs, they're knowing to fight. >> a vicious stabbing has just occurred at indiana state prison. the victim with deep slashes across his neck, stomach, arm, and leg, has been rushed to a hospital. the suspected assailant, michael ray stafford, has been brought into internal affairs for questioning. >> i jumped on him earlier today. >> were you physically assaulted at that time? >> yeah. >> then what happened? >> i heard the guy talking while i was waiting for chow, talking about watch what happens to him when we come out. later i heard him say, i killed the little bastard. >> is this the same guy that you got in a fight with that was talking? >> i'm not really even sure. >> okay. then what happened? >> went all -- all hell broke loose. >> well, who had the knives? >> i don't know nothing about them. >> you don't know nothing about two weapons sitting there on my desk? >> look, i've already been beat
up once today. >> yeah. >> i heard people talk about killing somebody when the doors come open. i come out to defend myself. i'm not dying in here. >> i can understand that. >> if it's between him and me, i'm sorry about his [ bleep ] luck. >> yeah. >> that's what happened. that's all there is to it. i didn't -- that's -- >> was it the same guy that made the comment? >> i'm not going to build a case for you. >> at this time, we're going to end the statement. >> 2,200 people in here for different things. a lot of them in here for murder. long time, big time. you could walk down the street tomorrow and get beat up. you could get stabbed just walking down the street. it's just -- it happens. >> back in the 1980s when major cabanaw patrolled isp as a correctional officer, he experienced such violence firsthand. >> i've been assaulted, yeah. i fought for my life a couple of times. we had three offenders back in the back with knives.
and the only thing i had when i went back there was one of the guys in the cage give me a cut-off mop stick. this guy was trying to stab me, and i broke that stick over his head and got the knife from him, but all i can say is he probably was lucky that the stick broke. personally i try to treat the offenders the way they treat me. they treat me all right, don't give me a problem, then i'm not going to give them a problem. but i'll tell you what, if they cross me, i can be their worst enemy. >> james stone is one of the offenders that used to test cabanaw's mettle. >> my first eight years here was very violent. that's what i did for a hustle. guys that were having problems that were owed money and couldn't get it, they'd come to me and say, will you collect this for us? i'd say, yeah, but i get half. i'd go up there and split their wig and say, you got a week to get the money, or the next time i'm not going to be nice. >> over the years, stone has grown less violent and more
committed to his prison job, which today will take him to the fifth floor of "i" cell house. the intensive detention unit. the most dreaded cell block at isp. >> there's currently about 99 people, that's our maximum capacity, here on idu. and here -- this is what it's like pretty much every day. you've got -- you walk out pretty much with a lot of headaches every day. this is like prison within prison. someone is going to try to gun you down. these guys are going to get combative with you. these guys will try to stab you, and, hence, the stab vest i have to wear. this is idu. this is the real deal. [ bleep ] and you've got to have a thick skin to work here too. >> they've got an overflowed toilet on idu. i'm the backup. i've got to clean blood, crap, urine, overflowed toilets.
you know, it's a glamour job. what i'm anticipating, just cleaning up some swamp water. unless there's a man-eating turd in there or something like that, i'm pretty well safe. but then, again, with the food we get here, you never know. >> stone's a good person. he's a hard worker. one of the hardest workers that i know. >> hey, don't clean that stuff. >> getting ready to. >> he's a convict. a convict is one of the older ones. >> oh, right here. here we are. spilled toilet. >> the difference is they respect more people in here. the officers -- i think they respect the officers. they have jobs. they go to work. they stay out of trouble. >> been in prison for 24 years now.
when i first came to prison, i didn't have much to lose or anything because the time they gave me was more or less a death sentence anyway. back in the old days, wintertime came around, those windows were bolted open. the heat was shut off. everyone stayed in shape because they'd jog in place and do push-ups or whatever just to stay warm. now these guys have hot water in the showers. didn't have it back then. you have to think about sexuality sometimes because when you take a shower when it's only in the teens, it's like, damn, where did it go? >> the kids are more -- the inmates, the older guys are the convicts and they're getting less and less. >> holy mackerel. >> isp is slowly going from convict to inmate. we're getting a lot of younger kids in here who are not used to prison life. and they're not used to interacting with us. >> it's a bird, it's a plane. no, it's the bio bucket man. these new guys coming in here now, they've got pants hanging
down to their knees or they have grunge on their headset or something like that. on the phone calling mommy and daddy so they can get a nickel sack or a crack head ball or whatever they've got going on around and they want to cry. they say state this, state that. the state ain't doing nothing for you. you're here. they done did what they were going to do. ruined your life or whatever. but you're here. make of it what you can. to the bat cave. >> in a prison where old-school convicts like james stone are a dying breed, josh harrison represents the new generation. >> i'm 20 years old. i've been in prison for a little over four months. >> i was here for approximately
two weeks and they came around put me on "d" east, which is administrative segregation, because i got into it with the officers. i broke tvs. now i'm trying to do my time and get an education and go home so i can be home with my children. >> if harrison falls into the wilder, less disciplined ways of the inmates, he could wind up spending years in lockup. but one of the prison's old-time convicts is committed to looking out for him. >> i've known josh probably over three months now. we was all on lockup when i actually first met him. i know his -- his dad from inside the prison system. >> me and my dad, we ain't got a real good relationship. then i met robert. he's been more like a father than my real dad has. >> he's really just a lonely kid, you know what i mean? he wants to play tough, but actually he just wants to know that someone cares about him.
>> every time he sees me he's like, stay out of trouble, stay out of trouble. if i do get myself in trouble, he'll cuss me out. >> josh reminds me a lot of me when i was his age. i know what he's going through. he thinks he's got something to people. i think he's wanting me to see him as a tough guy, you know? >> spears would soon be proven right. next -- >> well, he passed a rumor that he wanted to try to kill me. >> josh harrison finds himself in serious trouble. >> i beat him up just to show him, do not talk. so you brushed with colgate total and you didn't.
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mattress, personal property. and looks like something was found. the officer is reaching for his cuffs. you see him restraining the offender. >> the offender is josh harrison. >> i disappointed a lot of people in my life. i let a lot of people down. this is my wife, my wife. that's my daughter, that's my son, the twins. my mom, she's -- [ inaudible ] i got caught with a knife. >> this is a shank that was turned in from possession of offender harrison. "e" dorm east. and as you can see here, that's a pretty lengthy piece of iron there. it's got a pretty good point on the end of that. it could do some pretty severe damage, especially if that came up through a rib or a kidney or a lung. >> i got another really good friend that cares about me. i let him down, too. >> if i could get him right now,
i'd beat him up just to show him you're not tough. >> robert spears has been a surrogate father to harrison during the young inmate's first four months at indiana state prison. >> i'm really mad at him now. there's no reason he should have had that knife. he's got two babies. i told him, it ain't about this, man. you've got ten years to do. do that ten, go home, be a dad. it's not about being in here being tough, having a reputation. >> on his way to pre-seg, a temporary lockdown for inmates awaiting disciplinary hearings, harrison reveals his reason for having the shank. >> the dude that murdered my cousin is in this prison. >> does he live in "e" dorm? >> no, he lives in "f" dorm. but word was he was going to get me, so the day i heard that is the same day i got caught with it. that's when i got the shank. >> all right. >> shakir smith was the man that harrison was allegedly targeting. >> he already passed a rumor that he wanted to try to kill me or was going to kill me.
and i could either go at this guy head-on and probably prove everybody right that i'm this big, violent person that they marked me to be, or i could talk to him face up, and i came in one day from work. the dude was waiting outside. and i kind of seen he was antsy and everything. had something in his pocket. >> so you had the shank in your pocket? >> i had tied -- i had a shoestring holding my pants up, and it was tied to the shoestring, hanging by my right side. >> smith was convicted of killing harrison's cousin, but claims it was someone else. >> yes, i do have an idea of who did it. but i ain't no snitch. >> you had every intention of using that knife? >> of course. >> to what extent? >> i wasn't going to kill the dude. >> what were you going to do?
>> i was -- i was just going to poke him a couple of times. if somebody was going to kill your family, what would you do? >> michael ray stafford is dealing with a different kind of loss. >> i haven't had a haircut since october 1999. and i just -- this is the second time i got jumped on that they pulled all this hair out. boy, i hate losing that. >> after further questioning about the brutal stabbing of pat ellerman, stafford is escorted back to the special management cell that he is assigned to until the investigation is complete. >> we did interview the victim. the victim's not being very cooperative with us. being an old-time convict, he doesn't want to be labeled as a snitch, so he's not giving us any statements whatsoever. as he put it, i'm not going to
help you with your investigation at all. some of stafford's information that he gave us don't pan out. what we're hearing through the rumor mill is that he owed someone some money. we're hearing that he owed the victim some money at one time. stafford and the victim used to be friends, but over the last six months or so, they've slowly separated and went their own way. >> somebody seemed to think i owed them some money. i don't know. i think he was in debt themselves. and to get the bill collectors, so to speak, off of them, i think they just up and said, hey, that guy right there owes me some money. >> stafford said there was two guys that jumped him, which we still haven't proved he got beat up. we'll never know that. at this point, i've got enough information between the witness statements and videos and everything to go ahead and charge mr. stafford with class a-102 battery. that's a violation of our adult disciplinary procedures. we'll put together the case for the prosecutor's office. we'll let them review it and decide whether he wants to present criminal charges. >> the guy that caused all this,
the guy that got cut up, he had me pegged wrong. well, that guy's in the hospital right now. i don't think he's going to mess with me. coming up -- >> best-case scenario, just be that they forget about this. >> stafford gets his day in court. >> if i had done that, where would i be now sfl it's been five years. five years. well, progressive gives megan discounts that you guys didn't. paperless, safe driver, and i get great service. meredith, what's shakin', bacon? they'll figure it out. getting you the discounts you deserve. now, that's progressive. call or click today.
hello, i'm melissa rayburger. they confirmed 32 children under the age of 10 were among 90 people killed in an attack in syria. activists are putting the blame with the syrian government. >> it's shaping up to be a sloppy memorial day weekend. the storm system stalled for now. forecasters expect it to start moving again soon. now back to our program.
i'm surrounded every day by murderers, rapists, child mo les tors cannibals, serial killers, the worst of mankind. but me and the men in here are -- hard to believe -- pretty decent guys. >> the old-school convicts and the younger less disciplined inmates at indiana state prison usually keep a distance between themselves. but another segment of the prison population roams wherever and with whomever they choose. >> we've got guys in here that used to cause us problems all the time. they got a cat and they change just like that overnight. >> many isp inmates are allowed to adopt cats from a local rescue shelter. >> this is jinxster.
this is my little buddy here. i've had him since 2005. because my first cat died in 2005, and they replaced him with one that looks similar to him. my first cat here was jinx. looks like he can -- as you can see, he was a large cat. he wasn't fat either. he was muscle-bound. like i said, the first cat anybody ever seen that could pull a concrete block. not no brick. a block across the ground. that's how me and stone met each other. by me -- i was in charge of the cell houses as a captain, and i'd be walking the ranges, and he caught me playing with jinx one day. that's how we became good buddies. we've been friends ever since then. >> my first cat saved my life during a contract hit. he woke me up when the guy tried to take me out, and i ended up sending that guy to the hospital. so my first cat was like a watchdog. you couldn't get near me or anything like that. he guarded me. >> i am in charge of the cat program.
you know, that's a switch, but i don't know, i like cats. i like animals. my personal opinion is our cat program is probably one of the best things we've got going on in here. >> by taking a cat, it gave me a sense of responsibility, something to lose, think about. which a lot of these guys in here don't have none of that. >> you ain't going to the vet. i think he thinks he's going to the vet. >> stone, before he got jinx, he was kind of a rebel-rouser. he'd go around and drink, smoke, whatever. not wanting to do what he's told and stuff. then when he got jinx, it just changed him. changed him into a different person. >> the major himself used to come up and visit the cat all the time. he told me if i ever got in a problem and had to get rid of jinx, he would take him home to his farm himself. he really fell in love with the cat itself. >> what's up?
how are you doing? >> i thought i'd bring him over. >> the cats do good for both sides. staff and the guys doing time. because they don't just affect the guy that's got the cat. jinxster, he probably affects 50 people in the cell house alone. >> see you, jinxster. >> he's my little buddy. i depend on him. he's more dependable than anything i've got in here. i mean, he takes a lot of the anger and temper away. makes it easier to cope in here. because when i do feel like i'm about ready to go and do something stupid or whatever, i just hold him in my lap, pat him, stroke him a few times, and you look at those big bette davis eyes and you think, hey, this guy depends on me. i've got to take care of him. you know? >> while stone's cats might have helped to rein him in, it's hard to say what, if anything, will help josh harrison. after being caught with a knife,
he has been confined to the prison's pre-seg lockdown unit located on the fifth floor of "d" cell house. and now he's in even more trouble. >> he's been asking about his cable all day. he has tv, but he doesn't have any cable. and he had mentioned that if he doesn't get his cable fixed by 5:30, he's going to burn the next officer down. meaning he's going to throw either urine or feces on the next officer or possibly the next worker that comes up there. while i was standing there trying to talk some common sense into him, he took his pipe from his light switch, and he went to pull it off the wall, and the sparks started flying. and so i spoke with the shift supervisor and he told me to write him up for destruction of property. oh, he's not going to be happy with me once he gets this.
>> mr. harrison -- >> what now? >> for one thing, you've got to take the curtain down. >> why? >> the next thing, i had to write you up for your little destruction of property with the light. >> destructive? it ain't destructive. >> as well as i can't get ahold of the cable company today. so you're not going to get any cable today. but you do have to take the curtain down. >> the curtain ain't coming down. >> it's got to come down, mr. harrison. >> it ain't coming down. >> if you can't take it down, i can get someone to help you take it down. >> get somebody to help me then. >> i'll be back. >> my style, if i have an offender that doesn't want to follow my orders, then i'll give them a warning. because i understand, you know, these guys are locked in most of the day. they don't have a chance to, you know, communicate with their friends or their family,
whatever it is. so i'll give them a little bit of slack. >> i'm trying. that guy -- me up, man. i got destruction of property. i don't [ bleep ] know. she probably wants me to destruct her ass. >> he's refusing to take his curtain down. harrison. >> you want somebody to [ bleep ]. >> i ain't doing that, sarge. man, i want my privacy. >> come here. now, if i see that curtain -- >> it's going back up as soon as -- >> i will come in here, shake you down, and take you up and have you strip-searched and write you up myself. >> get the cable fixed. >> i'm trying to get your cable fixed. but i do not want to see that curtain up again. >> if my cable ain't fixed by 6:00, we're going to have problems, man. i promise you, there's going to be drama up here all night.
>> did you just tell me today that you wanted to go home? >> i do. but she's going to write me up for petty [ bleep ]. >> you can't be in here destroying property. >> if you don't write me up, i'm going to rip it out. [ bleep ]. >> wouldn't it be easier to beat the write-up if -- >> i'm not going to beat it when she says i ripped up my wall. that's not my -- >> harrison, you're not the only one in here with the problems. we both know that you want your cable fixed. and we both will do what we can to get it fixed. i don't want no more about gunning no officers down if you don't get it done. because you don't need no more write-ups. you don't need no more nothing. all right? in order for you to go home, you need to sit back and keep your mouth shut, okay? all right.
next, harrison gets chewed out by his surrogate father. >> what did i tell you way ahead of time. leave that alone. >> and later -- accused of a vicious stabbing michael stafford pleads his case. want ts and retire with more? then don't get nickle and dimed by high cost investments and annoying account fees. at e-trade, our free easy-to-use online tools and experienced retirement specialists can help you build a personalized plan. and with our no annual fee iras and a wide range of low cost investments, you can execute the plan you want at a low cost. so meet with us, or go to etrade.com for a great retirement plan with low cost investments. ♪ i've been fortunate to win on golf's biggest stages. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit, even the smallest things became difficult. i finally understood what serious joint pain is like. i talked to my rheumatologist and he prescribed enbrel.
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they do whatever makes them happy and without regard for anybody that's around them. >> back years ago, we had a lot of convicts here. they were a little different. they took responsibility for what they did do and what type of crime, whatever, they did. now we have a lot of offenders/inmates that it's all about me. it seems like we owe them. >> get the cable fixed. >> and i don't understand where they're coming up with the thing where society owes them. they owe society. and that's where -- we're trying to teach them to take responsibility for their actions. >> hard as they try, however, prison staff do not always succeed. but sometimes a convict can do what an officer can't. as josh harrison currently in pre-seg for being caught with a knife is about to find out. >> he knows i'm a little upset at him because of the knife situation but i actually told him, i'll try to get up and see you.
you know whey mean? but he's going to try to give me a dumb little story. you can believe that. all day he was going to do something. he knows i'm not going to let no one do nothing to him. so that would be weak to me. >> convict robert spears has been a surrogate father to josh harrison since harrison first arrived at indiana state. now he's decided to drop in on harrison for a friendly visit. >> you think it's funny, don't you. what have i been telling you? why did you get it? for real. why did you get it? >> because of my cousin. >> what did i tell you? leave that alone. let god take care of that. it ain't your business to take care of that, man. do you want someone raising your two little kids? calling somebody else dad? >> no. >> okay. if you killed him, what are you going to get, dude? >> life. >> a life bit.
you're stupid, dude. if you don't use your head, you're going to lose the rest of your life right here. you're still a kid, dude. but you turn around and be my age and not even know it. look at me. 43 now, man. what are you doing? i've done done. i've been through it. done it. lockup, stabbings, fightings, being tough. you don't have to be tough, man. i'm about to get ahold of you, boy. i'd whip you just for that reason and i'd try to knock your teeth out just because i care about you, boy. just to wake you up. not to hurt you. you got a head. you can't really tell you me you're stupid, you know, because you're not. you know how i do it. i don't know about you, boy. you hurt my feelings. i can tell you that. you let me down. of all the people, i thought you were going to come through. you better wake up, josh. no matter how much i care about you, if you got to learn the hard way, you're going to do that on your own, man. if you get into this anymore, i'm for real done, man. >> you got anything down there? >> what do you need? >> food.
>> i'll send you some up later. just shut up, man. just stay out of trouble. you talk too much. stay out of trouble. stay out of trouble. >> love you, bub. >> see you later, man. straight idiot, man. if i could hit him in the mouth right now, i would. >> i let him down. >> how much time harrison spends in the hole will be determined in a disciplinary board hearing just like the one awaiting michael ray stafford for allegedly stabbing pat ellerman. >> best-case scenario would be that they forget about this. >> stafford is assigned an inmate advocate to help him present his case at the hearing. >> did you get a copy of the investigator's report? >> no. >> here's what i would say. no matter what the outcome is, i would plead not guilty to it just for the simple fact, if you don't -- >> i thought i already pled not guilty. >> but she's going to ask you what your plea is again inside of here. >> yeah, right.
okay. >> you don't want to plead guilty to something that has the possibility of an outside charge. >> i'll take care of it from here. >> okay. >> you're done. >> he wants a copy of this and he says he wants to ride out solo from here. >> so you're waiving your right? >> i don't want any help. >> okay. you can go ahead and step outside. have a seat. this is your copy of the evidence card. the weapons they found. one taken off of you. this is the video outside of a-cell house of the incident. you were wrote up on a 102. battery with a weapon. when you were screened, you pled not guilty. is that still your plea? >> not guilty. >> do you have a statement on the incident? >> you know, i was beat up twice in one day here. i've had three people putting knots on my head. and i'm the only one locked up? what's going on here? >> did you report the incidents to anybody? about being beat up? >> how could i do that?
i've got to live here. >> i understand that, but you could have went down and said, hey, this happened. you didn't have to give them a name. you didn't know who did it. >> and if i'd have done that, where would i be now? >> i don't know. >> yeah, you do. you work here. you know what would have happened if i'd done that. >> anything else you want to add to your statement? >> no. no. it's not doing me any good. >> based on that case file, i am going to find you guilty of battery, give you a year. 9-22-08 to 9-29-09. take 180 days. i will give you an appeal form so that you can appeal that. >> assigned to a year of disciplinary segregation, stafford will be locked up 23 hours per day, lose some of his personal property, and not be allowed contact with general population inmates. >> i'm going to be living like an animal, in a cage with nothing. absolutely nothing. over what? because somebody tried to take my [ bleep ] away from me. i protected myself.
this is what happens. that guy was coming at me with a weapon. i had to do something. i had to do it right then. she's talking about why didn't you get an officer? hell, i can't get an officer. if i went and got an officer, where would i be now? i'd be the one lying in the hospital all cut up. it's a bad deal all the way around. no such thing as defending yourself. >> coming up -- >> i didn't know he had a knife. >> the stabbing victim returns to population. >> i noticed i had a couple drops of blood. he reached up and went like this. >> josh harrison faces the consequences of having a shank consequences of having a shank in prison. support team usa and show our olympic spirit
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michael stafford knows a thing or two about violence. >> i got shot in the head years ago, and i got a big old hole here behind me ear. that's where the bullet came out. the bullet went in underneath my eye and come out. this window is up higher than the wall. i remember when i came up to the unit, i looked out there and seen a car going down the street. it dawned on me, i thought, damn, there is a world out there. it's been so long since i seen a car. >> but stafford has now left the cell with a view to the detention unit where he'll be locked up. the disciplinary board has found him responsible for the stabbing of pat ellerman. >> got the blood out of my shoes.
that's why i stopped fighting because i seen blood on my shoes. >> two weeks after his stabbing ellerman has returned to general population. >> i was stabbed ten times. i think i won the fight, he won the war. >> stafford received a year in the hole despite ellerman's refusal to cooperate with the investigation. it's all part of the convict code. >> i'm a convict. you don't tell nothing. >> why? >> that's just the way it is. i mean i've got to live here the rest of my life. i don't want anybody thinking that i'm weak, that i'm going to talk, that i'm going to say anything about anything. i'm not mad at the guy. if more people would do what he did instead of this poking and running, this would be a different prison, and i'm sort of impressed that he went that far. he could have cut me and ran. i didn't know he had a knife
while he was cutting me. i didn't know. >> how did you not know? >> i was busy. i was fighting. >> at what point did you realize you had been stabbed. >> at the very end i had him by the hair and i was upper-cutting him. i had new shoes on. then i noticed i had a couple of drops of blood on my shoe. and he cut me like bam, bam, bam and i was like oh, man and i let him go. >> you were severely stabbed. i mean, i'm just curious how you wouldn't have felt that. >> because i was enjoying fighting. >> but fighting has led to one of the greatest regrets of ellerman's life, the loss of a relationship from his 13-year-old son. he has and heard from him once in the past eight years. >> i wish my son would get to know me before i die.
i sure do. when he was born, i swore to him as he was looking at me, never come back to prison. i told him i quit fighting. i lied to him. i don't want my son to end up like me. anyway, i never knew my father. he disappeared out of my life when i was five years old. he died. i didn't get a chance to meet him. all i ever heard about him he hung out in bars, he was a fighter, he was really tough. i didn't think that that's what i wanted to be, but that's what i turned into, and i don't want him to subconsciously try to turn into me. i do not -- i'd rather see anything than my son going to prison, anything. anything. >> ready to go? >> after being caught with a shank and other lesser violations, josh harrison is about to be separated from the
convict that he considers his surrogate father. he has been given an 18-month term in the prison's intensive detention unit where he will be locked up 23 hours per day and not permitted to associate with general population inmates. on his way to idu, he's allowed one last good-bye. >> robert? >> where are you going? >> idu. they gave me a year and a half. >> i told you stay out of trouble. >> i love you. >> you too, bub. >> stay out of trouble, kid. >> this will be harrison's first time on idu. with good behavior, he might not serve the entire year and a half, but that's small consolation of this cell bloc, a place where the prison's most dangerous inmates seemingly spend 24 hour days shouting threats at each other. >> he's nervous. i think he's nervous.
this is his first time up here on idu, so it's nerve-wracking. >> this is smaller than a [ bleep ] regular cell. >> hopefully he'll do his year and a half, go back out to population, and straighten up, and he'll be up here longer and probably get more conduct reports. if he acts up in here, they'll probably ship him out of here. >> can you stay out of trouble? >> i don't know. depends on what these dudes talk about.
due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. there's always a sense of underlying fear, and i think that it's important to not ever forget that. >> in a world dictated by fear, some resort to violence. >> while i was on lockup, i was always involved in excessive violence. >> when i was stabbing him, i was talking [ bleep ].