tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 29, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
honeymoon in vegas, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in dallas. let met start with the biggest question of this campaign so far. is there any level mitt romney will not descend, any level he will not go, to get kwb when a calls, the 50.1% of vote he needs to win ppt answer is, just watch. he went down for norquist for tax policy. down to the religious right on the we know best to do list and now to the lowest level of american politics, the crud at the bottom, nativism. no-nothingism. i'm talking about the scum of
birtherism and its grand pubah itself. we will talk about that mr. 1% will do anything to beat 50%. lets start with this, george will. this sunday on abc george will question, what mitt romney has to gain by associating himself with donald trump. let's watch will in action. >> i do not understand the cost benefit here. the costs are clear. what voter will vote for him because he is seen with donald trump? the cost of appearing with this bloviating ignoramus is obvious to me. this is redundant evidence that if your iq is very low you can still protrude into american politics. >> donald trump again wouldn't
back off the birther issue the same day he plans on holding a fund-raiser today for mitt romney in vegas. let's listen. >> i walk down the street and people are screaming, please don't give that up. look. a publisher came out last week and had a statement about obama given to them by obama when he was doing a book as a young man a number of years ago in the 90s, born in kenya, and raised in indonesia. i mean, this was -- this is from obama. now amazingly the publisher oh, we made a mistake. i don't think life works that way now. is it the most important thing? in a way it is, because you're not allowed to be president if you're not born in the country. but let's see what happens. i'm not painting flames. this is something that came out last week. a lot of people are questioning his birth certificate. they are questioning the authenticity of his birth certificate. i have been known as being a very smart guy for a long time. i don't consider myself birther or not birther but there are
major questions here and the press doesn't want it cover it. >> just to correct, mr. trump on his fact, the literary insisting he spoke about who wrote that copy pch he said it was a mistake but that barack obama never gave the publisher any material or background that would imply he was from kenya. so so much for that from don add trump. let's talk about what happened late this afternoon on cnn with wolf blitzer. >> you know what, everybody's entitled to their opinion, wolf. you know my opinion. you know his opinion. and that's fine. we're entitled, as he said yesterday in the airplane, we are all entitled to our opinions. he is entitled to his opinion, and i think that's wonderful. i don't happen it share that opinion, and i think that's wonderful also. i think if you look at the birth certificate, you analyze the birth certificate, there are many people that don't agree with the birth certificate, they don't think it is authentic
wolf. >> when you say many people that don't agree. >> many people. >> like who some. >> there are many people. >> give me some authority in hawaii who says -- gave me name. >> there are many people -- i don't give names. there are many people that do not believe that birth certificate is authentic. >> howard fineman, my friend, there you have an example of the brilliance, if you want to call it that, of donald trump. the ability to spin this story endlessly. going into transcripts and references by assistant pr people, publishing houses, anything to keep this thing alive. then when pressed on by a good reporter like wolf, he can't answer the question. it doesn't bother him because he simply establishes a new commandment, ala trump, which, i don't name names. what can you say? romney is in bed with this guy. why is romney pulling up the kifrs over him and trump.
what is he up to here? >> first of all, i'm less interested in what donald trump says than in what mitt romney doesn't say and what for that matter john mccain doesn't say. i tried pretty hard today to elicit from the mccain campaign or the senate office their view on latest about donald trump. i wanted know from the romney people whether they thought that association as george will said was harmful. no answer. i wanted to know from the mccain campaign, which is who mccain senate office, mccain having been used in an obama ad as the good senator who rejected this kind of politics for years ago. i wanted to know if mccain had anything to say about what was going on in las vegas today. silence. i think the silence from both romney camp and mccain camp means the following. they are willing to let donald trump root around in this and say whatever he wants to bring this topic up or keep the topic alive for those voters who are going to care about it.
and they exist. they still exist in places around the country and in swing states like virginia, like north carolina, like southern ohio and so forth. i know those people, i want to the early tea party rallies in 2009 in my second home state of kentucky and for some of those people this still matters. that's who donald trump sp speaking to. so romney will take the money and keep his distance from trump. don't forget the last time romney said, that barack obama was born in the united states, the last time mitt romney said that in public was april of 2011. he hasn't said it since. all romney has said is, you know, people are entitled to their opinion. so they are letting trump go out there and raise this as much as he trump wants. >> all he did is send out a spokesman -- let me go out to john ral ston. here is the thing about why this
is so important. so far in this campaign, mitt romney has shown a willingness to go down for just about anybody. tax nuts like norquist, the war hawks, completely with them in iran. the christian right going down liberty university getting honorary degree, whatever that is worth bp all this effort, constantly to woo constituencies of the right and never say no to anybody. he won't say no to birther who t.o. a guy who is out there trumpeting this stuff. he snuck into the country like an international con artist and said this about the president so he could reach the racist out there and the know-nothing people. what does it sound to you like out in vegas? >> chris, i think you hit on it. i think george will is kind and underplaying. that creates the appear ins after buffoon which is what trump is.
but this is the most noxious swill you could offer up in american politics, as you say. between the lines racism. one thing to general u flikt. it is quite another thing to stir up the most insidious feelings in this country and howard is right, there are people here in this swing state here, who will respond to it. there are people everywhere and the real issue here is howard point out is romney silence. chris, today on a program on the nbc asillate here, most visible romney surrogate in this state, lieutenant governor, brian crow said the following when confronted with trump's comment. he is larger than life. he's an icon. we appreciate his assistance. >> well, howard, the problem is romney looks like the apprentice here. he doesn't look like the boss. he looks like the guy who is on apprentice, on the tv show, on nbc, trying to win the support of any cost to romney.
let's take a look at this. yesterday telling reporters that he doesn't hold the same views as his supporters. boy, isn't this special? let's watch. >> i don't agree with all the people who support me mp my guess is they don't agree wefrg i believe in. but i need to get 50.1% or more. and i'm appreciative to have the help after lot help after lot of good people. >> you know, when someone said, give me an adjective for yourself, and said, resolute. now he is saying, 50.1%, saying i will get what is necessary. >> that's the case with mitt romney all along. i think he resolved after the last campaign, 2008, which didn't work out, that he would do whatever it took this time. and in the early primaries as we recall, chris, in iowa, in new hampshire, south carolina, florida.
he used every weapon at his disposal, including, if not weapons that he didn't have to hold the handle of himself but others used to flatten opponent. that is what he is doing here. the romney campaign itself is trying to say, hey, it's other people, not us. we want to focus on the ecan con my. they are maintaining aid radio silence about this. it is politics at its roughest in this country. they justify it. to themselves. mitt romney, people who know him well, they like it personally. when it comes to politics, we have not seen the limits of what he's willing to say or not say to get that 50.1%. the astounding thing here is to use gambling terminology, john, and i've lost money at the gaming tables like a lot of people watching this show have over the years. especially something as simple as roulette. instead of wasting your time working the odds because the
odds are against you on the side of house, put your hundred bucks or thousand bucks, whatever you have to gamble for the whole weekend, put it on red. if it comes up, great. you probably have as good of odds on that one spin, then walk out. seems like this guy, donald trump, bet everything he had on the fact that birth certificate wasn't going to be there in honolulu. he comes out, basically loses. he end up with nothing. bets red, comes up black. or the other way around. now it doesn't seem to bother him. this is my proof of trumpism. it doesn't matter if he is proven wrong. he has this ability to be hutzpah, over and over again. he just keep raising these things and saying, that there are people out there that agree with me, there is always some clown out there that just read the new york post or some other right wing rag and will believe anything they hear.
they will believe trump. and using them as authority. i thought it was great that wolf said name one person. how would he know the names of a person yelling at him from the other corner. that's his expertise. authority figures. here he is dancing in his honeymoon in vegas with the guys the republican nominee. i don't know what to say or what to ask any more. is this politics? what is this? >> he doesn't care. chris, that's the issue, he doesn't care. he thinks that any publicity is good publicity. he probably came off that interview with wolf blitzer and high-fived his staff. he probably thought it was wonderful. there is probably on twitter and elsewhere, oh, this doesn't matter, people won't vote based on donald trump. but trump is not some 0rdnary romney supporter he can distance himself from. he is not some person holding a sign in a crowd. guy raising millions tonight in las vegas at a hotel called trump.
secondly, does anybody in the universe think this is the last dumb obnoxious thing donald trump will say before november? of course not. i still believe romney is going to have to deal with this at some point. >> yeah. and i think, chris, to john's point, i don't think mitt romney could get rid of donald trump if he wanted to. because there would be risks in doing that. and that you don't know how donald trump will respond when cornered. and of course, mitt romney is not the kind of guy it take that risk. not only is he getting money, so he is getting money from him. he will raise millions through donald trump probably and thereby show the other romney supporters, hey, mitt romney is willing to associate with anybody, no problem. so let's get in on this thing. if romney were by some stretch of the imagination to say to donald trump, i don't want anything to do with you any more, could you imagine what donald trump would do next?
could be very, very interesting. and romney doesn't know what that is. >> i know, there might be a dead rabbit on the lawn. anyway, i just want to tell you, i will not be ignored. i think michael douglas tried that once in "fatal attraction." what happens in vegas, stays in vegas. coming up, three things in the obama campaign needs to be worried most. three biggest worries. and our special feature, dirty money. how billion airs are trying to put romney in the white house. nice to have him there, isn't it? and the jury is still out. is that good news for the once top democrat? and mitt romney fairing to show political character. and this is hard ball, the for politics. ball, the for politics.
vegas. we have a new poll out of colorado showing a tight race out there. let's check the "hardball" score board. according to a new poll from the democrat leading project new america, president obama is a four point lead over romney in colorado. 48% to 44%. now to another battle ground state, michigan. and it's trending towards obama. according to a in ppp poll, obama leads romney in michigan by 14 point now, 53-39. something to do with the car industry come back, don't you think? ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios
economy flatlined. is that their number one concern when you talk to them, maggie? >> yes, it is. bar none, if the economy stays where it is, unemployment stays where it is or tics down a bit, but not much, if it stays in this area or gets worse, this is a major concern between the months of august, september, october, the major feeling of the president is he won't be heard, it won't matter, and mitt romney will win. >> let's go to chris. do you agree that if the economy flattens or gets worse, it's bad news all the way? >> i don't make a policy to disagree with maggie, but she's totally right. it's not just the economy, it's the timetable by which the obama campaign needs some movement. let's say unemployment in september shows it's dropped, it's 7.7%.
it's 7.5%. you start to get a little too late as you get into september-october because people make their minds up about the economy is good or the economy is bad. again, they make their minds up on perception as opposed to reality, but these next few months do really matter because he, the president, needs to show genuine movement so that they have an answer to that question that romney is going to ask from today until the 6th, which is, are you better off today than you were four years ago? >> i disagree with that, but that's fine. >> we all go back to school, the air turns a little crisper, the news gets better on the economy. i think there will be a tremendous euphoria. let's go to the second big concern. attack by the obama people fizzles. you both agree that's the second biggest worry. this attack on bain capital and romney's role in killing jobs or whatever in the steel industry, et cetera, won't work. >> yeah. i mean, look, chris, it's gotten a lot of attention and there's
been a lot of back and forth so far, is it working, is it not working. the obama campaign does not spend all that much money on sort of exploring mitt romney's record at bain. until they do that, i don't think we can draw conclusions about whether it's working or not. if it doesn't work, that is, if people essentially say, mitt romney was a businessman. yes, he did some things that weren't great but he also helped build companies, they buy the romney argument on why bain is good. it's just as hard for obama to make the case, then, because they have to make this a choice not a referendum. if it is a choice between an image of mitt romney as a as a rule tour capitalist and obama being the man looking out for the middle class, obama probably wins. if it's how does barack obama handle the economy versus this business guy who has done good things and bad things but let's give him a chance, romney wins. >> let's go to the third thing here. your opinion, some kind of bust
over there, whether it's greece related or spain related. when they watch what's happening, and you're an economics person, when they watch, what's the thing that could really cause a clattering bad effect. in our economy. between now and november. >> the euro crisis is a major problem. it will have a ripple effect on markets. it won't matter what happens here because it's completely out of their control. this is something they're watching very carefully. it is not anything they can do anything about. it's a big x factor. obviously, there are other global concerns that could be big x factors here, too, but anything that happens with the economy really scares the obama folks. it's not number one, it's not number two, but it really could kill us. >> it could kill us by the second or third quarter. >> absolutely. >> chris, and you say, and i found this brilliant. uptake in the romney prospect because he picks a wonderful, exuberant pick of vp.
something magical in their campaign. i'm thrilled at this prospect. i didn't know it was possible. >> chris, i like to keep you fascinated so i'm happy you find this fascinating. >> i am. >> i want to know who this is. >> here's my thought, is that mitt romney will get to do one thing that barack obama doesn't get to do between now and november 6. barack obama is the president of the united states. huge advantages come with that, bully pulpit, everything we know. but one thing mitt romney will get to do and get significant press off of is picking his vp. i just saw that thought bubble. i don't think there is a perfect person to put in there, but i don't also think it is something we can just write off and say it doesn't matter. we saw the negative side with john mccain picking sarah palin in '08. i'm not sure a mark rubio or a chris christie, if romney is behind, solves romney's problems. but i do think it does have the potential. we now have three out of four
major players in the race are already set. a fourth is to be determined. i don't think it's ridiculous to say a fourth will matter. it's not going to end the race either way unless mitt romney picks sarah palin, which i don't think he will do, but it does have an impact, and i would agree on the euro -- >> you've set it up, chris, i'm not going to do this on purpose, but if he picks a prize, it will be born. i know it's not on purpose, but it's more interesting to say not on purpose. maggie, what do you think of this? can a vp prospect be that interesting and that much of a cannonball that it blows this thing up to say, wow, this guy is faster than i thought he was. look who he picked. >> i don't make a habit of disagreeing with chris but i'm going to disagree with him here. i think if mitt romney picked a mark rubio or chris christie, he would get press. i don't think he will because
they overshadow him. i think you're likely to see rob portman, and i don't think you would get the razzle dazzle headlines. that would be a huge game-changer here. >> it is an ethnic divide here, fascinating. >> chris, you know this better than i do. >> catholic voters are -- look at catholic vote in the last eight to ten presidential elections. whoever wins a catholic vote almost exclusively wins the election. >> what does that say about us? >> it's just a fact. >> serious about their religion, fickle about their politics. thank you. tomorrow we're going to look at the biggest fears on the romney side. what's romney's biggest worries? we'll talk to top reporters about that, too. i love the way we did it tonight. rudy giuliani has nice things to say about mitt romney, but he's really saying things about rudy giuliani. as usual.
giuliani's tortured explanation. for the change he's making. that's coming in a side show. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] today a mom will see her doctor. a dad will get a screening. ♪ a little one will get a vaccine. and a teen will talk with the doc. ♪ right now, millions of americans are using their preventive benefits from the health care law. you can, too. not just because there may be no insurance copays or out-of-pocket costs.
now for the side show tonight. first off, rudy being a bit rudy. remember this lukewarm endorsement of romney? >> i think that mitt has won fair and square. this reminds me of going to a surgeon. if i've got a terrible cancer to be operated on, when i was operated on for prostate cancer, i didn't go to the nicest doctor, i went to the best doctor. the guy could be a great joker and put the knife in the wrong way. >> what's love got to do with it? now giuliani explains why his romney bashing in massachusetts was great for him to do but not for obama to do now.
>> there's a certain amount of personal ego in that. at that point i was probably comparing his record to my record. maybe it was circumstances or whatever, but i had massive reduction in unemployment. he had a reduction in unemployment of about 8, 10 -- i think it was 15%. i had a reduction in employment of 50%. they had a growth of jobs of about 40,000, we had a growth of jobs of about 500,000. so i was comparing what i thought was my far superior record to his, otherwise decent record. a simple fact is that mitt romney has been far more successful in the things that he's done than barack obama. >> doesn't most of that sound like rudy plugging rudy? anyway, alsan simpson isn't one to hold punches and he let it rip in right wing dialogue. >> i guess republican in name
only because of social views or common sense would be another one that seems to escape members of our party. you have grover norquist roaming the earth in his white robe saying if you raise tax one penny, he'll defeat you. he can't murder you. you can't burn your own house. if you want to be a purist, go somewhere on a mountaintop and pray to the east or something. but if you want to be in politics, you learn to compromise. show me a guy who won't compromise and i'll show you a guy with rock for brains. >> go to a mountain somewhere i love that. finally, here's a question. and praise the east. what's it called in the world of twitter when one of your tweets adds up to exactly the 140-character limit? well, president obama got the answer to that question during a twitter q and a after an event recently in iowa. >> i demand for twitter. >> that's zero characters left. that's the perfect tweet.
>> whats that called? >> a twoosh. a twitter swoosh. >> i'm the twoosh master. >> thank you so much, sir. >> you have it. that is called a twoosh when you have the perfect number of characters. i guess like a swoosh in basketball. all net. how few billionaires in this country on the right, of course, are trying to get mitt romney in the white house. what are they expecting? good question. we'll be back with the answers.
back to "hardball." i'm in texas today where the heart of all this dirty, angry money is coming from. texas millionaires and billionaires have given more money to the super pac to than any other state in the country. most is going to republican groups like restore our future, the pro romney super pam and karl rove's group. why would somebody give millions of dollars to give to president
obama? the answer is certainly business. you see romney sitting right there in the oval office. the latest issue of rolling stone has some of them, but should the voice of billionaires count more than individual voters? apparently they think is thy so. executives of rolling stone and flagsalmemo.com. why don't you run through a couple of these characters. let's start with this texas business guy, a real tycoon, harold simmons, has given more than $16 million and to the pro-romney group restore our future. according to bloomberg, an underground dump in west texas for radioactive material, it could be worth billions to him. follow up on that. harold simmons, what's he got to gain by getting romney where he wants him in the white house? >> simmons is pursuing this huge dump in texas that would dump radioactive waste from 36 states
and texas sitting atop a major drinking water aquifer, and the real pollution and contamination issues. simmons is the guy who has been sued repeatedly by the justice department for failing to clean up contaminated super fund sites, so he's got a track record for really dubious practices when it comes to contaminated waste when it comes to people like romney in the white house where rolling back legislation would be a real boon to him. >> we had a term for characters like this. they were called pigs. and i mean that. they are doing this for self serving. and bob perry is worth 600 million. giving 6.5 million to american ross crossroads. he wants to make it hard to her bring lawsuits over homes,
shoddy material, purchases, whatever the case may be, he wants to make sure he doesn't have to deal are regulators. >> mr. paulson was the main guy associated with. he was basically the financial instrument of the carl rogue machine, which he is this year as well, and he clearly has an incentive, as all these guys do, by the way, to have their taxes cut enormously, which is what the romney plan would do. aside from their own individual pet peeves with regulation, they all would love to have their taxes cut. they don't care about deficits. they want a better tax break for billionaires. >> want more money. >> yeah. that's what they want, that's what they're after, and i think they'll get it. >> fill us in on bob perry. why does he want to fight tort reform? he doesn't like lawyers, but so what? have they been going after him on his building projects.
what's the attack on him that he's so worried he needs a guy in the white house to look after him. >> sure. you get sued all the time if you're a builder. they call is the perry court and the perry court vacated a rule against him for $800,000. a jury in the same case awarded $850 million. there's a huge financial incentive for him in those cases. >> what was the case about, building materials, what was it about? >> shoddy home building, not fulfilling contracts, and in that case you're looking at putting a cap on those jury awards so that basically he won't be required to pay if his company does a bad job. >> john paulson and another fellow here. let's go to sheldon adelson. i've always found fascinating. he is one of these natural business guys. he has the instinct for the casino business. he has made zillions. apparently he has a real problem, eric, with organized labor.
he doesn't like unions. >> that's right. he's been fighting the unions in vegas over his casino for a long time. and adelson is really a prime example since citizens united, a court ruling that allows these guys to put a limited amount of money into presidential campaigns. guy like adelson was able to single handedly prop up the newt gingrich campaign. >> that's an amazing general. 20 million and he can just write the check. >> newt gingrich was a fascinating guest on our program last week. i'm glad he came on, we had a great argument. we'll do it again, i hope. but the thought that he could personally fienant a presidential campaign. >> sheldon adelson pays unions, and he especially doesn't like them in nevada where he has his casinos. he kplaps about the socialist obama administration but is very happy doing business in communist china. where there are no unions that are effective, so he can do whatever he wants. communism doesn't bother the guy.
a strong labor union he doesn't like. and he wants it get rid of them. you can make your own judgment about that. >> eric, it didn't matter how richwur you were unless you had a bunch of bundling. >> eric, you had a bunch of law associates you could go to and bring the money with you in one big bundle, you couldn't really give a lot of money to presidential candidates. you were limited to the cycle for the primary in general. this has changed it all. these guys now are back to pre-watergate days where one to three people could have a big show in the white house. >> for $2300, can you really buy a campaign? can you really buy a candidate and expect something in return, and maybe that was an argument back then, so if you're spending 3 to $4 million on a single candidate as bob perry has, of course you're going to be expecting something in return for that kind of money, there's no question about it. >> the can candidate who gets elected will hear your side of
the argument. we'll hear your side of the argument at minimum. he will think about your side positively at minimum. you may not buy the guy but you damn well opened the door to him and had the best chance to sell him, and he or she will probably go with you if they can get away with it. that's the scary part. >> of course, they will. you're buying access for sure. if nothing else you expect to pick up the phone and get somebody in the white house. >> and you need to run for reelection. you need mid-term contributions. this is the first flood, and with many more to come if this law stands. >> you mean they stay bought? >> of course, they get bought and they stay bought at least until the next election and through the next election. then they'll come out of office and complain about what a bad system it is and how much they hate raising money. >> the question is, money can't buy you love but it might be able to buy you presidents. what a great piece in rolling stone. what a magnet you're becoming. after all these years, you're still great. joe, great having you on any time.
up next, the jury in the trial of former presidential hotshot john edwards has been deliberating now for seven days. are they any closer to a verdict? my hunch and a good hunch, they can't agree to convict the guy. it seems like that good news. [ female announcer ] hey, head & shoulders users... how long since you worried about flakes? since before jeans were this skinny. not since us three got a haircut. ♪ not since my first twenty-ninth birthday. [ female announcer ] head & shoulders. clinically proven to improve scalp health. with seven benefits, there's no worries from flakes, itch or breakage. i haven't worried about flakes since my grunge days. remember them? trying not to. [ female announcer ] head & shoulders. scalp and hair beyond compare.
we're back. john edwards, the democratic candidate for vice president in 2004 and the man who came in second in the iowa caucus in 2008 is facing 30 years in prison right now. the good news for him, i think, the jury seems to have a hard time reaching a verdict. news political analyst and former deputy attorney general from north carolina, joining us
from the courthouse in greensboro and deborah from the washington post. let me start with hampton. is this good news, the fact this jury cannot convict after seven days now, they can't seem to agree on these counts? >> chris, it could be, but edwards has got to be concerned that in their confusion they may try and find a way out by convicting him of a charge or two as opposed to all six. there is a huge difference for him between acquittal and conviction. there may not be much difference in terms of the sentencing between one conviction and six. there is no question, though, this jury is confused and they have every right to be. the federal government can't even decide whether it's a crime or not. doj indicted him. the federal election commission doesn't see a problem with this money for the mistress. >> it just seems the judge in create law, to create a precedent here, that if you give money to someone to help deal with a personal matter, an embarrassing relationship, that helps keep her out of the story,
out of the news, that that's in effect a political contribution and should have been reported and covered that way. covered that way. this is brand new in terms of making them make that judgment. the judge had a say if it's mostly for political reasons mostly not entirely. that still enough reason for edwards to fry here. >> if the election and the fact were aries than the reason, then it seemed to me she was saying you do have to find him guilty, which i'm not sure if she's right about that. i think her instruction in that way was pretty clear. it just seems with this jury that the whole craziness of the case is rubbing off on the jurors maybe because we've heard these stories about color coordinated outfits from the alternates and she said today in open court, the judge did, a lot of things can go on in a jury
room when it drags on this long and not all of them are good. >> let me ask you. melinda, what is this juror issue that came up? what was the problem there? >> we don't know for sure what the juror issue was. there has ban lot of talk in the courtroom about one of the alternate jurors who has been reported as flirting openly with the defendant and he with her. i don't know. as one of my colleagues at the post wrote, there's one place not to meet mr. right and that would be at his trial. it's truly unbelievable. on the one hand you see them taking this so seriously looking back at every single scrap of paper. they have asked to see 500 different court exhibits. then this complete circus
atmosphere of the thing going on with this alternate juror. >> hanson, i guess it's an example of hooking up at a bar. what do you think? >> sure. chris, i was in the courtroom every day. i tell you what's unbelievable is the idea that edwards was flirting with a juror. his behavior was abhorrent. i'm not an a poll gist, but the idea he was flirting has no basis in fact. there was a juror that may have been a little too friendly. we're in the south. people are friendly. people smile at each other. if there was a problem with a juror, kathryn, the presiding judge would have dismissed that juror in a heartbeat. >> let me ask you about something that's less tangible, which is the mood of juror. i've heard it described as haggard, tired. how would you describe the jury?
>> sure. it's day and night between the 12 who are now deciding the case and the alternates. they have done a little color coordination, but i think that's a nonissue. the juror who is are deciding look like they have been put into a situation they have no idea what to deal with. i think it shows the unfairness to put a juror in the middle of the decision that the federal government disagrees about. it's one thing to throe a book at someone, i've got no problem with that and it's another thing to hit them in the back of the head. they realize they have a tremendous weight on them. they don't know what to do with it. >> that's the question. you're a journalist, melinda, is this too much for 12 members of your peer group, just regular people, some high school, some college, a mixed bag of people to be asking them to define, what is illegal here?
>> it may or may not be. i'm not a legal expert, so i can't say whether we're asking too much of them. in terms of what juries in general have to do with, this is a serious case as in every criminal case where someone's freedom is on the line. it's not a capital murder case. you're not talking about taking someone's life. you're not talking about that sort of a situation. maybe it's too much to ask, but that would be on the judge, i think and what she's laid out for them. they have been asked to do this. it's their job to come to a conclusion. if they don't, if they do deadlock, then i would see that as good news for john edwards because i really can't imagine they will try this case all over again. >> what a story this is. i think it's a tough. i don't want to get involved in affecting the jury any way. thank you. when we return let me finish
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they wouldn't want their kids to marry. fair enough. then there's the type that's so scared he might lose, so resolute to win as mitt romney describes himself, he's do anything to win. dealing with birthers is doing anything. showing up on stage with someone who says the president was someone born in another country, that he's a foreigner sitting illegally in the oval office, that's doing anything. i'm proud of this country because it had the stouf to pick someone from president last time who didn't show the old limited notion. donald is a brilliant over the to showman. siding with the golden pooba of birtherism isn't a good way to prove your character, which is the ability to say no or no thanks to values you do not share. romney is showing a willingness to do anything to get elected. what should make us think he would be any harder to bed