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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 29, 2012 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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analysis even different parties, but at the end of the day it's about the natomas of the country. let's compete for those who can serve them the best. not who can come up with the most venom. let's compete for who can take care of the natomas of the country. it'll make it a better country. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts now. health care up in the polls. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let's start with the thunder on the right.c: c1 one compared it to 9/11, an attack out of the sky. one conservative branded the chief justice of the united states a traitor.
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have you ever wondered which side got this into a crazy world, listen to the screams from the star board side. the lunatics raving with rage they couldn't destroy the country's only health care plan. don't believe this soft line you hear about repeal and replace. this theory on the right isn't looking for a better health care plan. it's looking to destroy the only one there's ever been. our guests tonight. gentlemen, it's great to have you on tonight. true believers. i think we need some true believers. this reaction from the screwball right, is that a precursor to the fact romney will fight this thing right through november, the health care bill. >> i think romney has a big decision to make here. if you look at the poll numbers, the country is kind of split on the decision, on health care reform. >> let's go to that point. gallup found the country as you said, well you couldn't say it better. evenly split. 46-46. 46 disagreed, 46 agreed.
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and amongst independents 45-42. >> it's a tossup. it doesn't give him an advantage to start banging against this decision. i think a lot of voters particularly independent voters are kind of done. >> how does he appeal to the nuts? >> this is a way to drive his base out if he's still worried about his base which he shouldn't be. but if he çis. the other thing, too, if he starts going into repeal, repeal, repeal. i've talked to the obama campaign people. they are ready to go toe to toe with him on all the provisions within the bill that get 60% to 80% approval ratings. the kids on insurance, preexisting conditions. they know obama care is split 50/50 in the public. if you look at the provisions, they have a lot of ammo to go after romney if his position is to be get rid of it. >> he goes to fight this thing or he cools jets? >> my bet is he trails off. you have the guys in the house.
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they're going to have a repeal vote in a week or two. >> i think they have a different agenda. to win their little fight. joe, thanks for joining us tonight. let's ask this. we all watched that performance by the president and his opponent yesterday. the president was out there saying he had -- at some insurance building somewhere in washington he was yelling from. this guy sounds like he wants to fight this bill. do you think that's right or not? with david he hasn't decided. >> well, i think it's a tough choice for him. because i think it's a trap. if he continues the discussion about this, here's the part from the white house. the part you were for in massachusetts that we took from you, the individual mandate, is the least popular part of this bill. what david was talking about is right. every other provision bill enjoys anywhere between 62% to 80% plus amongst voters. including republicans.
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so it'sç a bad discussion for m to get into. because the more you talk about it, the more people are going to realize what they like about the bill is what with president obama did. then obama has to say you know what? this is how we pay for these benefits. there is no way to make this bill work without the individual mandate. he can be the stern sort of daddy. in order to have these benefits, we have to pay for them. this is how everybody kicks in. which is what romney said. >> can he fight romney and say you -- i was quoting roosevelt the other night saying whenever he had a fight to the right on something, they'd come later and say we could have been done it for you too and it wouldn't have cost you anything. here's mike gowan make a point. when you look at the polls today. obama looks like a winner. and you can't underestimate the subtle impact that has on casual voters. the attack that has tested best with focus groups incompetent in
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over his head is now in tatters. the fact he looks competent and looks strong. look at the numbers today. a couple days ago health care was around 30, 28 the inindividual mandate. >> not only does he look like the winner, mitt romney runs the risk of looking like a right wing whiner. a lot of people want to move on. and having nothing to say about the key issues except platitudes. winning -- there's nothing. better than winning in politicsç >> is there anything better anywhere than winning. >> but they want the president to come across like a strong leader. not to be pushed around. romney's outs there pandering to the base, flip-flopping on the mandate. >> i'm with you. you know, i remember -- i'm older than you guys. working for carter as a speech writer back when i had that hat on, i got to tell you, joe. when he lost that marathon race,
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that 10k race he said he was going to win. they're looking for signs out there, the voters. does he have strength or not? some is just human. this time i think if he had lost this win -- i'll go back to where i was yesterday. tell me if i'm right. if he lost it would have been bigger if he had won it. >> a win is a win. and the problem romney has now is the president has won this. the republicans in congress still want to fight the last election. they won big in 2010 on this issue and a lot of them still want to fight that fight. that's not good for their presidential nominee. >> here's romney out campaigning with a new web video in response to yesterday. let's watch this one. >> in a few months, americans will cast their ballots and make a choice. do we continue stifling our economy with a growing government that discourages hiring? or do we chart a new course and change directions? the supreme court made their
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decision. but the american people haven't. >> we have to make sure that the next president of the united states repeals obama care and replaces obama care. >> day one, job repeal obama ca. >> wait a minute. doesn't he have other number ones? wasn't it the keystone pipeline was number one? >> she key thing to look for, chris, you know this. >> watch, you'll find out what's number one. >> it's easy to do. it doesn't cost you anything. are they going to put money and put these ads in swing states? particularly we talked about the obama campaign. they've already targeting women, targeting hispanic voters have used health care and in a proactive way as a positive. so they think -- if you ask the hispanic voters, they put health care as number one in a lot of surveys. >> hispanic voters are high on health care. i know. >> they're going to air this ad in virginia, colorado, nevada, new mexico, arizona. i don't know if he's going to do that.
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>> let's talk about the targeting of this ad. a young guy had a designer stubble. this cool guy in his 20s. who are they talking about this guy is a bit of a rebel. is that the target? a young male in his 20s? what's that all about? is that the guy -- that guy might not even vote. just thinking. >> that guy might not even vote in the likelihood based on everything about young voters. he's not going to vote for mitt romney. i think this is the same -- this goes to the same issue. the way the polls are now going after yesterday, we're going to see it shift in intensity on health care from the strong intensity opposed of the last election to a stronger intensity in favor in this election. >> how do you know? >> well,ç because the -- becau what the polls show evening out in the gallup poll which is not favorable to democrats traditionally is different from what we had a few weeks ago on the same issue. i think you're right that the
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supreme court decision makes people rethink this. and it makes them rethink it in the middle of the electorate. and for democrats having won, a victory is something they're going to want to defend. the intensity grows around that. >> let's talk about the second term. between now and the end of the summer at the convention, obama has to draw a picture of the second term. had he lost this fight, he would have said look at what i'm going to do in this second term walking in with an empty slate on the first term. this way he can say i did this this year. i can do stuff. i can make history. i therefore can make more history. had he been blown away on the main building block of this administration, i think he would have had a hard time staying. i go back to where i was yesterday. the biggest stakes yesterday were he could have lost. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. often in politics, a win can blow away quickly. but a loss just hangs on. if that rate had gone south and
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gone bad, it would have sunk him. and the hoorahs he got for it quickly faded in the surveys. but i do think that you're right. if he wants to make a case to the american public that he should stay in the job because he can do things primarily about the economy and jobs, he has to be able to say listen i did stuff before and it stuck. it worked out. that's the key thing. it stuck. >> quickly, joe,ç this is a bi story to me because it's an upset victory. your thought? >> yes, it is. and i think to go back to what you were saying a minute ago, this victory makes it easier to talk about all the things he has done. like auto, like stimulus, like all of the other progress. bin laden. has a bedrock now which is the biggest accomplishment. >> well said. lee atwater said david's still getting good pr for beating goliath. have a nice weekend. coming up, the umpire
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streaks by. john roberts said he would be an umpire at the court. now the right wing is calling him -- here's a wing that comes handy for them. traitor. they think the supreme court is a tool of the right now. it isn't anymore. also in the politics of natural disasters, president obama inspected the wildfires in colorado today. how the president handles a disaster can make or break a presidency. plus god and government. how the tea partiers and evangelicals got together. here's how the "tonight show" handled yesterday's news. ♪ >> i don't know how they do that. but it's great. that and more late night spoofs coming up. this is hard ball. the place for politics. what's with you?
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so will 2012 be another wave election in the house in the spirit of 2006, 2008, and 2010? not according to the rothenburg political report which is predicting small changes in the house. anywhere from the one-seat gain to the republicans to a six-seat pickup by the democrats. the gop would remain in control. the cook political report which is also closely follows every election agrees. no big changes in the house of representatives. we'll be back. in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start. our beatches are even more relaxing... the fishing's great. so pick your favorite spot on the gulf... and come on down. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home.
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back to "hardball." the right wing anger machine has been focused for three years on president obama. yesterday after the supreme court's decision to uphold the president's health care law, that anger found a new target. the chief justice john roberts who voted with the liberals of the court. glenn beck is now selling
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t-shirts with roberts' face above the word coward. that's sophisticated. quote, will be seen as a traitor to his philosophy. and jack kingston of georgia tweeted he doesn't feel like being roberts' friend anymore. that's kind of high school. we're going to look at the wildest reaction with joan walsh and ron reagan. here we are back in high school, guys, when someone won the student council election and somebody else didn't. this is so -- it goes from the ferocious to the childish. sarah palin tweeted obama lies, freedom dies. last night on fox she elaborated with an ominous apocalyptic warning. >> if obama is re-elected,(çwel, america, you will no longer recognize the country that today you truly love and can enjoy all of its freedom and prosperity and security if obama is re-elected.
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because this obama care is a hasher of things yet to come. >> she has that sarcastic thing she puts into her voice. rush limbaugh also dramatic on his radio show. let's listen. >> our freedom of choice just met its death panel. the supreme court of the united states, what has been upheld here is fraud. and the internal revenue service has just become barack obama's domestic army. >> was he wearing a prisoner's costume on purpose there? black and white stripes. i think he was with the imprisonment of this. where does he get something like that from? that's his prisoner costume. joan what do you think of limbaugh and palin?
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i think rush is a showman but i think palin has started screaming about this thing. she is hurt she lost this one. >> well, obama lies and freedom dies. i mean, it's so over the top. both of them -- it would be so funny. it would be hilarious if it wasn't a little bit scary. i mean, i think what we have here, chris, is an opportunity for the president -- hdç gets kind of a do over. he gets to sell this again with the light of the supreme court behind him. and so, you know, they tortured him with death panels and all the other lies and pulling the plug on grandma. and now rush is calling the supreme court is death panel. that's lovely. and the president gets to go out in the light of day and with this great victory behind him and tell the american people in a sober proud way what it does. yes there will be more of the same. there will be more of your children staying on until 26 and
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they can find a good job. there will be more people getting coverage though they have preexisting conditions in their past. >> and you're right. people will now begin to pay attention. it was one of those movie football games where the guy throws the incredible block. in this case the guy who don't expect. john roberts blocks the defenders. and all this heading down the sidelines. all the way to the end zone. >> or maybe it's one of those football games where somebody grabs the ball and runs in the opposite direction that you think he's going to run in. >> exactly. we can't have this discussion without talking about irony here. that is the individual mandate to buy private insurance is a republican conservative idea. it came out of the heritage idea in 1993 as an alternative to the democrats' singleç payer idea.
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the question you have to ask romney is how are you going to do it? without a mandate and without universal single payer. can't be done. >> and you think if the heritage foundation plan had come from them, do you think they'll be saying it's unconstitutional? this is something i hate to do, but i am going to let us quote michael savage. he unloaded on john roberts yesterday in a rant that is too crazy to rationalize. but let's listen to the worst. >> it's well known that roberts unfortunately for him has suffered from epileptic seizures. therefore he has been on medication. therefore, neurologists will tell you that medication used for seizure disorders such as epilepsy can introduce mental slowing, forgetfulness, and
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other og acognitive problems. and if you look at roberts' writings, you can see the cognitive disassociation in what he's saying. >> for the record, justice roberts has had seizures. he's never said he's epileptic. nor is he taking medication for hit. well, jack kingston tweeted today with obama care ruling, i feel like i just lost two great friends. america and justice roberts. this is so over the top. this is like some high school. somebody just -- i don't know how to explain it. it's sad. >> theç republicans feel betrad here. they thought they had the supreme court comfortably on their side. there goes roberts heading off. they're furious with him. i think roberts realizing that a 5-4 decision overturning this law would have cut the slender threat by which the credibility of the court now hangs.
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and he just wasn't going to go there. >> i think they tucked him in at night upstairs in his bedroom and they look out the room and he has a placard that he's protesting against them. they weren't ready for this switch. >> it's a little bit scary, chris. it shows the extent to which they believed they had this in the bag and the court in the bag. you lose legitimacy of the court. >> shortly after the ruling, not to be outshadowed here or outcrazied. one of the founding members of the birther caucus in texas calling for the impeachment of justice elena kagan. let's watch. why not, you know? >> we still have the issue of justice kagan as i've been raising for months now. either she was totally derelict and negligent in her duties as
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solicitor general and had absolutely nothing to do with the most important bill to this president, her boss, or she did have something to do with it. she hasç violated federal law. and as such she needs to be removed from the supreme court. so i think it's important to look at justice kagan for potential impeachment. >> you know, i don't know what to say. let me go back to joan on this. you know, it seems to me that -- did you all watch jean schmidt and her sort of physical reaction to what she thought -- she was listening to fox and got the story wrong. and she was so seized with kind of a seizure of excitement that the bill had been declared unconstitutional. it was physical. these people's reaction, what do you make of it? is it that important to them that the president be destroyed? >> well, that's exactly what it is. it's that important to them. and they've been saying this all along. it was going to be his waterloo.
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remember jim demint told us that. and the idea that he was going to live to fight another battle, that he won this battle, chris, and that it was john roberts who did it to them was just too much to bear. but it wasn't -- i don't know how -- how do you spike the football if you think that, oh, yeah, now sick people are going to be thrown off insurance. yea. go america. how is that exciting? the only thing that's really exciting is they were going to deal the president what they hoped would be a mortal blow. and you guys, joe conason and david corn went over it well. it would have been a disaster to have it overturned. and he goes out competent with a record. kind of an amazing record now when you think about it now. >> and there's no substitute foç victory. >> yes. somebody once said before you tell me what you're going to do, tell me what you've done. just for the fun of it, let's watch jean schmidt.
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this is what it would have looked like for days and months if this had gone down. here's jean schmidt thinking it was struck down. here it is. just a clip. >> yes! yes! >> speak! >> oh, thank god! they struck down the individual mandate. they took it away. yes! >> wow. that sort of looked like nationwide, guys. have a nice weekend. you got something to celebrate. ron reagan and joan walsh. it's great to have you on the show all the time, by the way. up next, the late night comics take on the supreme court in the sideshow. it's a hoot. it's coming up here on "hardball," the place for politics.
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real was an historic moment yesterday when president obama made his address after finding out his health care bill had been upheld by the supreme court. some late night comics had imagined if obama had really cut loose with his announcement. >> after the ruling he addressed the nation from the east room of the white house saying this was a victory not for him but for all of us. >> i know there will be a lot of discussion about the politics of all this. about who won and who lost. that's how these things tend to be viewed in washington. but that discussion completely misses the point. >> he didn't want to gloat, but if you watch his body language closely, you could see he was feeling pretty good. here he was. ♪
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>> that is so well done. democrats are sobering that victory, the gop continues to blast the law and the ruling that upheld it. take a listen to louisiana governor bobby jindal on an rnc conference call this morning. he might have ruffled feathers over at team romney. >> there's only one candidate governor romney who is committed he will repeal the obamaney -- obama care. >> catch that? tim pawlenty called it that during the primaries. here's how he plans to do the provisions in his own state. >> we're not going to be implementing obama care here in the state of louisiana. instead we're going to do everything we can to defeat president obama and get rid of obama care. we're not implementing the
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exchanges. we're not implementing obama care. >> nullification. anyway, just say no. that puts him in ranks with the kentucky senator rand paul who said yesterday that the supreme court's decision doesn't change the fact that the law is unconstitutional according to him. finally, how's this for timing? guess how some members of congress rounded outç the most politically charged day? you can remember the baseball game. sadly for republicans the game wasn't a lift. the dems blasted their opponents in a final score 18-5. the event wasn't devoid of politics. hanging in the dugout, mike doyle said if anyone did get hurt today they would have all had insurance. because members of congress have it. they were rooting for the democrats, i think. up next, the president inspects the wildfires in colorado.
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how important is this trip? ask bush after not going to katrina? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. i brought your stuff. you don't have to do this. yes i do. i want you to keep this. it'd be weird. take care. you too. [ sighs ] so how did it go? he's upset. [ male announcer ] spend less time at gas stations. with best in class fuel economy. it's our most innovative altima ever. ♪
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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. a second person is confirmed dead due to the waldo fire in colorado springs. the justice department says it won't prosecute eric holder for contempt of congress. it says his decision to withhold information from congress is not a crime. and congress finally passed legislation that prevents student loan interest from increasing. it also spends more than $100 billion on highway programs. back to "hardball."
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whether it's fires in colorado or flooding in the northern parts of florida, when natural disasters like this hit, america comes çtogether. and we all recognize that there but for the grace of god go i, we've got to make sure we have each other's backs. >> welcome back to "hardball." late today president obama was in colorado springs where he looks at the devastation caused by raging wildfires in that state. he met and thanked first responders there. offered federal aid to help state and local recovery efforts more than 30,000 people have already been evacuated from their homes. there's nothing like the power of the presidency when natural disaster strikes. incumbent candidate has. erin mcpike is reporter for real politics. sam stein for the "huffington post." there is a no more potent example than a great movie last
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seen today "the candidate." plays a lawyer trying to knock off an entrenched u.s. senator. this short clip in the campaign playing tees up the scene. let's listen. >> for those of you going on with us to san diego, our scheduled departure time -- >> don't get off. >> get off? what about the group in san diego? >> never mind that. we've got a fire in malibu. it's perfect. >> with that, the campaign team tears up the schedule and rushes the candidate to the scene of the fire. but he wasn't the only one with that idea. and let's watch what the incumbent does. >> it keeps the water in the ground in the first place. that's why this brush all dries out.ç >> do you know who that is? >> yeah. smokey the bear. >> gentlemen, can we have your attention?
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the senator's going to make a statement. >> how are you? >> still hoping for a chance to debate you. >> don't blame you a bit. hi, jack. glad to see you got your wet suit on. all right, now. i will make this very brief. i have been on the phone with the president. one hour from now malibu will be declared a natural disaster area. >> sam stein, you know, sometimes these things go in cycles. then it was this conservative republican who's taking advantage of a natural disaster and his chopper and his federal aid. now we have a progressive president out there centrist of the left doing the same. it's very hard for mitt romney to compete with a president like this. we're watching. who goes to the scene, shows up, shows he's on the job. >> correct. because you look presidential. it's tough for mitt romney to do that when barack obama is the
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president. there's little practical benefit to romney showing up at the scene save perhaps pushing for relief funds. but it's a great photo op. it shows for a lot of people the essence of leadership. that's what obama's going for. >> compare him to george w. bush. >> i mean, that was the exact opposite. where you flew over a disaster area. didn't actually step foot in one. seems like he didn't care about the plight of the people who were drowning in new orleans. these things work both ways. you can draw away attention or resources from the disaster. there's a school of thought that says you don't want to land in the disaster zone. people who are there should be focused on helping out with the disaster. not the president's visit. at the same time, bush got criticized for not stepping down there. and there's a big political risk for not getting your hands dirty or at least getting involved. >>woody allen said 80% of life is showing up. i'm with him. your thoughts, erin. >> if you're the president
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you're going to be criticized either way whether you look like you're grand standing or looking callous. it's better to at least be there. it might be that republicans are criticizing him because he's going out to a swing state to show some respect for the people -- >> i forgot it's a swing satate. >> it is. it looks like it's heading the president's way. a lot think president obama might have colorado sewn up. but you listen to the republican national committee. >> look at those fires. go ahead. >> and they think that obama is better off than mitt romney in colorado. the romney campaign thinks they still have a shot there. >> it didn't take long for conservatives to criticize the visit to colorado. the state's former governor bill owens called it quote, a distraction. some blame obama for not spending more money on a federal fleet of air tankers that fights fires. hickenlooper was asked about this particular pieceç of righ
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wing criticism. here's his rather brilliant response. >> were these the same conservatives that were worried about the obama administration spending too much money or different conservatives? >> the ironies in politics, but they're particularly brutal when they come to emergencies. people who hate the federal government, despise washington are in phone with seconds with the 911 call when they want the federal money. >> correct. >> but there is an inconsistency there. >> two things. one is it's changed a bit recently, disaster relief funds used to be a non-partisan thing. now you have to find pay force for them in congress. they don't want to appropriate more money. with respect to the president showing up in colorado, had he not shown up, the criticism of him would have been ten times worse. it's a delicate thing here. when he went to the gulf, everyone was worried about
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whether he's distract resources. ed rendell in his most recent book on his book tour said if bill clinton was president, he would have put on a wet suit and plugged the well himself. there's only second guesses when this happens. better to show up and get the criticism for grand standing than to not show up and seem uncaring. >> ed rendell does think that bill clinton was superman. it's funny. >> he does. >> anyway, president george w. bush has become how not to react to a disaster. this photo shwz george bush surveying the damage as he flew over new orleans in air force one. it came to symbolize he was out of touch. bush said the flyover and letting the photographer get his picture was a huge mistake. i want to go back to something erin pointed out. you're going to get heat either way. lbj showed up. i wanted president bush, back to
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katrina. with all the african-americans and kids dying and dehydrated at the terrible place they were stuck. if he had shown up with a helicopter like the movie with lots of water, just bringing truckloads of water just so they can get through the days ahead and wouldn't dehydrate, somebody might have yelled at him. but the country would have said damn it we've got a president. >> you bring up lbj who in 1965 went down during hurricane betsy and said i am your president. i want to make sure the federal government is working for you. the difference is lbj went, he got on the ground and president bush didn't. the response in louisiana, the editorials that came out in 1965 after lbj did that were great for lbj. whereas president bush had a huge media crisis on his hands after the fact. you look at the difference between the two, there's no question that president obama had to go to colorado. >> good for you.
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i want to applaud right now. this is the thing i applaud on this show. when somebody has a sense of history. you're going to be -- i'm serious. sam stein, she one upped you. she talks about a real role model. >> hewey long had to drive lbj down to the coast. he said if you come down here you can beat everybody including eisenhower. it wasn't that clear cut. >> you share the title for greatness. happy weekend. up next, the tea party and evangelicals, a love story. this is a little sick. "hardball" back in a minute, the place for politics. an intense burning sensation i woke up with this horrible rash on my right side. like somebody had set it on fire. and the doctor said, cindie, you have shingles. he said, you had chickenpox when you were a little girl...
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i said, yes, i did. i don't think anybody ever thinks they're going to get shingles. but it happened to me. for more of the inside story, visit wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense.
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we just talked about how president obama toured the fire damage in colorado. but if you think that the politico campaigns are calling a cease fire on their negative ads during this natural disaster, think again. according to media that follows the ads of the 1900 negative political ads in june, 57 have aired in the days as the fire was at its worse.
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available only from liberty mutual. it's a better policy that gets you a better car. call... or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number. he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us.
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we're back. conventional wisdom says mitt romney needs to court independents to win the presidency. the christian broadcasting network's brody argues it hinges on winning over the same tea party and evangelical voters who gave him the cold shoulder in the fight with rick santorum and are newt gingrich. david brody makes his case in the new book "teavangelicals" the story how the tea party and
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evangelicals got together. first of all, pronounce it. >> the teavangelicals. they are breaking bread with tea party libertarians. >> why do people care about prayer in school, about abortion against gay marriage, why do they care about issues like taxes, issues like health care? obama care, why are they focused on the economic stuff now? >> they see it all through a b biblical world view. return to fiskical responsibility. crank of the verses all over the place. the borrower is not a slaveç t the lender. they see it from a biblical view. >> who said that? >> you're giving me church history. look, that's part of it. the other part of it is a return to -- get ready -- return to w judeo christian principles. all that is is what libertarians are saying.
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it's same thing, conservative christians want the same thing as libertarians on that. >> how come when the government spends money on the war, they have no problem with deficit spending? i'm just asking. >> i understand, it's something i address in the last chapter of the book. the challenges can't always be about just we don't want to increase the debt ceiling and we're going to be a pain on capitol hill. >> why would a guy or woman who goes to church on sunday, is a good person, believes in jesus and salvation and everything is true and good, care about the corporate tax rate. why would they want to lower the corporate tax rate? >> if you look at the corporate tax rate, you know, that dire directly plays into the whole stock market situation. if the stock market situation is good or bad, it's going to affect the family. >> by the way, we saw the stock market move up rather brightly today simply because things in europe are looking better. >> but look, lower taxes in the conservative evangelical world
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means more money you're going to spend on your family. that's the way they see it. >> let me tell you something about christianity. it used to be it was tied to the kind of thing you saw with the monkey trial, suspicion of the east coast, big banks. and in the oldç days, christia were moved by the fact we don't like the big new york bankers who are charging tighter money, harder to borrow money, they're the ones we owe money too, right? >> right. >> so how come it's switched? >> as a matter of fact -- >> because it's effectively done that. >> what you're making the argument for, they're thinking the same thing, government, government run amack. they believe, this is what the teagalicals believe. these has become a rabid situation for the teavangelicals. >> a regular person, you're getting a val re.
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you're a regular person. how does the government get bigger in the last four, five years, teb yen years. how has it gotten in your face? >> it's a threat. >> how is it more in your face? >> look at obama care. they're going to make health care directly affected their lives. if obama would stay out of health care, there wouldn't be these problems down the road. >> i would say to them in church, everybody ought to take individual responsibility for their health care. you daen you can't have some people buying insurance and some people not paying their share. i could make an argument and it sounds christian. self reliance. why don't they believe in that? >> everything is relative. you could argue both. >> i thinkç it's pr. obama is a socialist and they're against socialism. if you had the same health care program coming out of the heritage program, that would be
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jesus. you know i'm telling the truth. >> you line them up on the street, they're going to say republican, democrat, we don't care who you are, just that the republican party is closer aligned with some of their values. >> the christians love social security. christians love medicare. >> you're right. >> the idea they don't like government is crazy. >> in inbook, take a look. i address it. >> you have done your case here. >> have you patented this one? >> i trademarked it. >> thank you for coming on and gives us the view. when we return, david brody, let me finish with the fever swamps of the right one day after the big decision. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. focus lolo, focus let's do this i am from baltimore south carolina... bloomington, california... austin, texas... we are all here to represent the country we love
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let me finish tonight with this dance of death we've been witnesses the last 24 hours. want to know the precise location of the country's political zaniness? pay close attention online or onair to the clenched teeth a seething from the right, from ç limbaugh, to savage, to bozel, they are screaming in pain and rampage. the chief justices to start with, and on to the supreme court itself, and on to the president and all of the people who agreed with him that what he did was not only constitutional but deeply american. this much we know right now, a
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new poll shows that the supreme court decision of yesterday is building the case for the affordable health care act. there's now an even balance of view on the plan, a dramatic upsiup upsurge from before. people are welling to look at the feature s that affect them and how after the matter how things will be better and at what cost. the question now concerns the politics. why were they able to look forward to the decision by the supreme court with some kind of equanimity, able to say, let's see how it goes, preparing themselves to live by the results. it's called rule by law. don't have to like the law, just have to obey it. then the charge of treason and calls for defiance. all the notes beloved by the crazies. don't like something, blast away at it. yell treason, charge all who disagree with you as traitors. call for massive resistance. it's what we saw in the civil rights movement, what we saw throughout our


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