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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  September 24, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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house. that's the good news for mitt romney. if he exploits the debates to his favor and increases his standard beyond that of obama, he will fit right in. the bad news, romney has to beat obama to do it. and what a big night for politics, history and our bloled country. that's "hardball" for now. "the ed show" starts right now. good evening, america. welcome to "the ed show" from new york. 43 days until the 2012 election. only nine days until the first presidential debate. mitt romney thinks it's fair to pay a smaller tax rate than americans who earn $50,000 a year? you like that? this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> what's your big idea? >> freedom. >> now we know. mitt romney loves freedom and he loves his low tax rate. >> you think it is fair? >> yeah, i think it's the right way to encourage economic growth.
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>> tonight, richard wolf on mitt romn romney's definition of fair and dean baker on romney's ability to game the tax code with chinese investments. >> my expectation would be in the crunch in october, governor romney is going to be for todd aiken. >> republicans turn to newt gingrich to try to save todd aiken in missouri and save the senate. howard fineman has the latest. >> it turns out he stacked the crowd with supporters. it's not the first time. >> i do love that music. i have to tell you. >> good to have you with us tonight. thank thanks for watching. mitt romney tried to create a distraction from his 47% comments. instead he gave himself more headaches. friday afternoon the romney campaign released the 2011 tax
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returns. the romneys paid 14.1% and would have paid an even lower rate if they took all of their deductions. the tax returns put the focus back on the issue of tax fairness in america. romney was asked about his tax rate during an interview with "60 minutes." >> is that fair to the guy who makes $50,000 and paid a higher rate than you did? >> it is a low rate. one of the reasons why the capital gains tax rate is lower is because capital has already been taxed once at the corporate lev level. as high as 35%. >> so you think it is fair? >> yeah, i think it's the right way to encourage economic growth to get people to invest, start businesses, to put people to work. >> that's hogwash. mitt romney's world, americans can be sold on the idea of rich people being taxed less so they create jobs. haven't we tried that? not even ronald reagan could preach that. that was nearly 30 years ago.
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>> we're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow the wealthy to avoid p paying their fair share. in theory some were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing. and that's crazy. do you think the millionaire ought to pay more than the bus driver or less? >> the details in the tax returns are at odds with the fiscal police of his own running mate. romney's returns show holdings in many foreign accounts including ireland and the cayman islands. let's roll it back in 2010, paul ryan told the truth about offshore accounts. >> we don't want to have a situation where we are penali penalizing businesses for keeping their money, capital, and headquarters and manufacturing facilities in america. so then rather than having ireland and the cayman islands be the haven for capital
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formation, why don't we make it it america? >> more than 800 pages of romney's tax returns, two-thirds are devoted to foreign investments. maybe this is why romney's returns list the united states of america as a foreign country. you can understand the confusion. romney's blind trust investments also raised eyebrows. romney himself has called a blind trust an age-old rouge. instead, you can give a blind trust rules. but in his 2011 returns, romney didn't have many rules about chinese investments. mitt romney all along has been the candidate who says president obama did not stand up to china. e romney has railed against cho china's trade tactics. >> my own view on the relationship with china is this. china is stealing our patents, our designs, know-how, brand names.
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they are hacking into our computers steeling information from not only corporate computers but government computers and manipulating their currency. for those who don't understand the impact of that, i have seen it. i have seen it. >> tough talk, right? none of these things stopped romney from allowing chinese investments into his portfolio. his returns show the romney family owning shares of a chinese oil company. romney dumped the shares this summ summer. he knew it was going to be an issue. he also invested in a chinese online immediamedia company. it became a haven for downloading illegal content. are we grabbing this? what did romney tell us china was doing with american properties? >> china is stealing our intellectual property, patent, designs, brand names.
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>> but you invested in it. i guess all those things add up to a good investment for mitt romney. let's stop right here for just a moment, if we may. all of these details were uncovered in mitt romney's tax returns. this is all stuff we didn't know before last friday. many of them are problematic, to say the least. these are the tax returns romney was okay with showing the american people. we'll let them see this. imagine what's in the returns he refuses to show the american people. romney still has some defenders. he has some defenders out there. but they have credibility issues of their own. >> nobody is going to vote based on mitt romney's tax returns. he gave 30% of what he earned away. he's a lot more generous than i am. i'm sort of amazed at the generosity of the romneys. >> senator graham is defending romney because they believe it's an american value to gain the tax code. it's a game we play.
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every american tries to find the way to get the most deductions they can. the game because we set it up to be a game. now i just want to point out. and i know we're focused on this election. and going into the new year right after the election, a lame duck session of the congress, we're going to have one hell of a debate of what we're going to cut and tax to get our treasury in order. but we have a united states senator who backs up mitt romney in his rate saying he's very generous. it's all a game. it's all a big game. make no mistake. romney gained the tax code. he basically picked his own tax rate and accountants played around with deductions to hit the pre-determined rate near 14%. would you take it? meanwhile, romney won't explain the specifics of his tax plan for you and me. americans. >> we bring down rates, we limit
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deductions and exemptions to keep the code and encourage growth in jobs. >> and the devil is in the details. what are we talking about? mortgage deduction? >> the devil is in the detail, the angel is in the policy which is creating more jobs. >> tax cuts for the rich do not create jobs. this is the top marginal tax rate from 1948 to 2010. you be the judge. it's gone down quite a bit. here's unemployment over the same period. it's very hard to argue lower taxes do anything worthwhile for jobs, but romney's plan is even worse than this. not only will rich people get tax breaks, the only way to pay for them is on the backs of the middle class and everybody else. every wage earner out there. you can serve up a little more can't you? the nonpartisan tax policy center has the bottom line on romney's tax plan. they say, our major conclusion
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is that a revenue-knew ral individual income tax change would provide large tax cuts to high-income households and increase the tax burdens on middle and/or lower-income taxpayers. and yet, mitt romney is still steering the conversation towards taxes. he was in colorado talking about tax code reform. >> our tax code is extraordinarily complicated. i understand that there are seven times as many pages in the tax code than in the bible. so i want to simplify our tax code. >> romney is walking right into the president of the united states's wheelhouse when it comes to the discussion of tax fairness. the president has been hammering this message of tax fairness for the past year. fair share. he did it again last night on "60 minutes." >> you can't ask me to make student loans higher for kids
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who need it or ask seniors to pay more for medicare or throw people off of health care and not ask somebody like me to do anything? not ask us to do a single dime's worth of sacrifice? >> the obama campaign rubbed salt in the wound by releasing this ad today linking romney's tax returns to his 47% comments. >> mitt romney attacked 47% of americans who pay no income tax including veterans, elderly, the disabled. >> my job is not to worry about those people. >> doesn't the president have to worry about everyone? mitt romney paid 14.1% in taxes last year. he keeps millions in bermuda and the cayman islands. he won't release his tax returns before 2010. maybe romney should come clean on his taxes. >> what's going to happen? the american people are going to render judgment based on whether
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they think he would be a fair-minded leader. romney is making a pitch to the american people by saying that he is fair. but his tax returns and the tax policy he believes in tell a totally different story. this might be a reason why so many people have trouble connecting with mitt romney. >> polls consistently show you trailing and you're not popular in every state almost. more folks view you as unfavorable than favorable. why have you failed to connect with average americans? >> this is a campaign about a choice. as people watch the debates and look at our ads and hear our speeches and focus more and more on the path forward, i'm convinced they will conclude, as i have, that we can't afford four more years like the last four years. >> but that connection. how have you failed to make the connection? >> i'm pleased that we have a campaign that's take our message to the people across america and we're going to win. >> then again, there are a lot
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of reasons people have trouble connecting with mitt romney. and one of them is he doesn't understand monthly bills. that's my take on it. how do you understand the middle class? if you're in the middle class and if you're in a lower income than the middle class, are you worried about paying rent? worried about the car payment? got to make sure you pay all the bills that come up every month. people live in this country paycheck to paycheck. if a small business goes out of business, it's about 21 days before it's all over before they shut the doors. that's how tight business can be in this country. but the fact of the matter is we're talking about a crisis. a financial crisis in america right now. we're going to ask before christmas in this big debate in congress, we're going to be asking americans to pay more depending on who wins this election. mitt romney is not going to ask the wealthiest americans to pay more. he thinks 14% is a damn good
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rate for somebody who makes $13.7 million. monthly bills, well, they don't really come into play for people like that. but for people who make $50,000 a year, there's such a thing as a lifestyle change. they can't go out and buy the car they want because their tax rate is higher. and it's about fairness. what is fair? would it be a lifestyle change for mitt romney on his tax returns if it showed that he actually paid 36% after making $13.7 million? no. that's the whole point in all of this. the wealthiest americans can serve it up because they have to. we can go back to the old rates of america and turn this treasury around and give our economy a real chance to grow. it's been growing under president obama, 30 months of private sector job growth. but if romney gets in, all the favors will go to the wealthiest americans and all the burden will go on to the middle class,
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who at this hour, are still trying to figure it out. monthly bills, the republicans have no clue what they are all about. that's why they can't connect with the middle class in this country. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. do you think mitt romney paid his fair share of taxes? you can always go to our blog. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. and you know what? the republicans always come up with this. how much do you want me to pay? that's not the question. the question is are you willing to help the country turn our finances around? are you willing to be a member of the crowd that's willing to do something called economic patriotism to help this country dig out of a whole because we gave tax cuts for the wealthy? are you willing as a millionaire
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to do more for the country? that's what this election is about. and romney has got a plan that's not going to ask the wealthiest americans to do more. that's it the difference. romney's attempt to reset his campaign didn't get very far with the "60 minutes" interviews. richard wolf and dean baker will join me next. stay with us. add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am i i had pain in my abdomen...g. it just wouldn't go away. i was spotting, but i had already gone through menopause. these symptoms may be nothing... but they could be early warning signs of a gynecologic cancer, such as cervical, ovarian, or uterine cancer. feeling bloated for no reason. that's what i remember. seeing my doctor probably saved my life. warning signs are not the same for everyone.
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♪ welcome back to "the ed show." tax fairness is one of mitt romney's biggest problems. i have to tell you no wage earner i have spoken with thinks romney's 13 or 14% rate is fair. let's hear mitt romney's take on it one more time. >> is that fair to the guy who makes $50,000 and paid a higher rate than you? >> it is a low rate and one of the reasons the capital gains tax rate is lower because capital has already been taxed
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once at the corporate level. >> so you think it is fair? >>, yeah, i think it's the right way to encourage economic growth to get people to invest, start business, put people to work. >> let's turn to analyst richard wolffe and dean baker, co-director for the center for economic and policy research and author of the book "the end of loser liberalism." gentlemen, good to have you with us. richard, mitt romney overpaid to get a 14% tax rate. how is he going to sell that to the middle class? >> especially when he said he qualified he -- would not qualify to be president if he overpaid. he's going to spend the next several days answering questions about his taxes. that takes him up to the daent point. the last chance to change the dynamic and he's wasted the
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build up. bad politics on the timing. bad policy in terms of the fairness question. there's something else here. he claims that these are capital gains. and that he's a job creator. let's remember, this is a loophole for venture capitalist. he didn't go out and start a business in a basement. if he could tell that story, he would be in a better position for the american people. he's a financial guy. these are fees. it's a loophole. if you're looking to campaign as a reformer, someone to clean up the tax code, this isn't the way to do it. >> dean, romney defends his tax rate as fair because of the double taxation argument. but the bottom line, isn't he gamg the system? >> he's totally gaming the system. bain capital is organized as a partnership. that means it's not even taxed at the corporate level. so in his case, there's no story whatsoever. a more general rule in terms of the policy, special treatment of capital gains that if you get that income you should pay a
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lower tax, it's important to keep in mind taxes at the corporate level is a voluntary tax because anyone could organize a business as a partnership in which case it's not taxed at the corporate level. partnerships don't pay taxes. anyone who has stock in a corporation, they made that decision that the value of corporate status, something given to you by the government is worth paying taxes at the corporate level. they voted with their feet to pay the taxes. for them to complain to us, we're supposed tor rugged individuals. >> richard, connecting with the middle class is something he simply has not been able to do. coming back and trying to tell them he paid a fair rate when he makes that kind of money, this is a huge disconnect. as i was just saying in the opening block about monthly bills and people doing things when it comes to changing their lifestyle. if his rate were to go to 30%,
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his lifestyle wouldn't change. >> that's where the 47% video is difficult for him to overcome. you could say he's a wealthy guy and that's one explanation. another is he doesn't try because he doesn't care about the kinds of people who may be struggling. for him, they are all some kind of victims and dependents and mooching on the rest of us. that's is a problem for him in terms of the overall sorry. it's not just his values. it's what lies behind them. >> what about the chinese investments? problematic down the road? >> all the investments are. the offshore iing, it's all contradictory. his basic position, it's not just about the personal side. these are tough choices ahead. what are the spending choices? is he the best person to make those choices? >> dean baker, your thoughts on that. >> going back to the 47% comment, he was giving us a different story than reagan said
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when they wanted to cut taxes for the rich. maybe they didn't believe it, but their argument was this was the best way to help ordinary workers. we're going to lead to more jobs. it's going to help everyone. that's not what mitt romney was telling funders. he's saying, they are hopeful. i'm writing them off. it was really quite striking. i don't know what you say. >> richard wolffe, dean baker, great to have you with us. next the candidate who coined the phrase "legitimate rape" is forcing mitt romney to make a decision. how a bad situation got worse for republicans. and why mitt romney threw a tantrum. he has a major problem with latino voters and his latest stunt is making it worse. stay tuned. all energy development comes with some risk,
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show." thank you for watching tonight. this election is getting worse and worse for republicans. today todd akin and newt gingrich managed to drag mitt romney back into one of the ugliest senate races in the country. just what mitt need ed. former house speaker newt gingrich campaigned with akin in missouri. akin is running against senator claire mccaskill. he made headlines last month when he said he didn't believe a woman could get pregnant if she was the victim of a legitimate rape. >> it seems to me first of all,
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from what i understand from doctors, if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that whole thing down. >> if it's a legitimate rape. akin apologized, but mitt romney asked him to drop out of the race. >> i can't defend what he said. i can't defend him. >> akin defied romney and stayed in the race. here we are. now newt gingrich claims mitt romney will simply change his mind in a month or so. >> my expectation would be in the crunch in october, romney is going to be for the entire ticket and for todd akin. how many people are going to split their ticket and have a romney/mccaskill ticket? >> the republicans, i guess you could say, are in somewhat of a bind. romney can reverse his decision, he can defy his party and support a controversial candidate or write off control of the senate. meanwhile, another senate candidate has gone completely
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off script. video surfaced showing candidate tommy thompson saying he'd do away with medicare and medicaid. >> who better than me, who's already finished one of the sbiet mment programs to do away with medicaid and medicare? let's block-grant what the state has and allow the state es to determine what's going to go into medicaid. >> tammie baldwin is gaining in the polls. at this point, you can forget about the national election. romney needs to win back the support of the candidates in his own party. joining me is howard fineman, nbc news police call analyst and director of "the huffington post" media group. good to have you with us. will mitt romney flip-flop and support todd akin? it would be a big reversal. >> it depends on what the polls
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show. right now, todd akin is down by consensus maybe 6 or 7 points in missouri. i think that mitt romney will blow whichever way the wind does. if he finds it necessary ultimately to look the other way and unread todd akin out of the party, then he'll do it. but now he can stay away from it because akin is still down. >> what do you make of newt gingrich going down and supporting this guy president bush he hasn't been in front of the cameras as of late. what's this about? >> i think newt will go wherever he's really and truly wanted. and at this point, todd akin doesn't have many friends in the national republican party. for that matter, neither does newt gingrich. so newt wants to go be a hero and savior to anyone who will
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view him as such. and todd akin is desperate enough to say i need you. >> he said everybody says something dumb. here it is. >> saying something dumb disqualify you, joe biden couldn't be vice president. >> is that a fair comparison here? was akin's statement about legitimate rape just a dumb comment? >> no. a dumb comment is the kind of thing that newt gingrich did repeatedly during the campaign. but i think what todd akin did was reveal a world view, reveal a deeply-held world view, a glimpse into that world view that most of the rest of the republican party, even the republican party, just couldn't admit to or couldn't accept. which it was just such a, sort
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of, ignorant and mek nisic view of the role of women that intolerable for the republican party base. >> tommy thompson is taking gamble saying he's going to get rid of medicare and medicaid. >> this is another one of those it secret may videos that are coming back to get the republicans in september. but there was another part of that video just after what you played, ed, in which tommy thompson says we'll b put it on vouchers down the road and by 2020 nobody is going to want to pick medicare rather than the vouchers because medicare is going to be broke. and there what you see is an even deeper cynicism in which tommy thompson is saying, we're going to run medicare in the ground in the meantime so that when it comes to this choice
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they want to make between taking a voucher for a certain amount of money in medicare, medicare actually won't be a viable option. that's the most damaging part of what he said because he explains the mechanics behind it. and baldwin, who is already ahead in that state, i think, is going to move farther ahead based on these comments. it betrays a real cynicism on behalf of tommy thompson, who is a guy who, at least back in the old days, had some support on a personal level in wisconsin. >> this is the the most radical he's ever been. >> exactly. >> howard fineman, great to have you with us. lots more coming up on "the ed show." stay with us. >> new polling shows mitt romney getting destroyed among latino voters. tonight new details on how he threw a tantrum and stacked the crowd at the univision forum.
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and his plan for the uninsured is an emergency room. tonight the fallout from the remarks that mitt romney used to call socialism. >> when they show up at the hospital, they get care, they get free care paid for by you and me. if that's not a form of socialism, i don't know what is. copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day.
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welcome baa to "the ed show." mitt romney is struggling with hispanic voters. president obama has 45-point lead over romney. and the latest stunt, if you watch the forum on wednesday, you may have thought you were watching a tea party rally. because you were. >> how are you? nice to see you. thank you. good to see you.
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thank you so much. thanks, you guys. thank you. >> the romney campaign originally agreed to a crowd of mostly students from the university of miami. however, when they couldn't find enough students to fill the seats, the campaign started playing dirty. the campaign threatened to reschedule the event if they weren't allowed to bus in activists from around south florida. organizers caved and activists were brought in and ignored requests to hold the pause. one host said this, "we were throned because it was supposed to be a tv show. it wasn't a rally. it was a little bit of disrespect for us." this wasn't the only demand from the romney campaign. romney almost cancelled the event himself. minutes before the show, apparently he was not impressed with his introduction. an anchor said romney agreed to a 35-minute event while president obama agreed to an
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hour-event. romney was invited out but he never showed. one republican said, quote, romney threw a tantrum and refused to go on until the interview was retaped. obama held his forum the next night. they allowed a large chunk of the audience to be made up of student its. the result was a well-balanced and well-behaved audience. for more, let's bring in a member of the miami-dade democratic party. great to have you with us tonight. the romney campaign made a point last week to say that their campaign, they outreach, the hispanic vote in florida is unprecedented for a republican. then they pull a stunt like this. how is this going to play? >> it's obviously the same old, same old. pretend, pretend, pretend and
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everything is false, it's just a show. romney is all about just not following rules while obama was very happy to do an hour interview. very happy to answer the questions honestly while romney just, you know, had to do his whole reinvention of how he feels about hispanics. i'm surprised he didn't come out with a some bray row on his head because he was trying everything he could to pretend to love hispanics and reinvent with his po policies. but we know he didn't answer the questions. the questions he did answer were in complete disagreement with everything he said in the past like ve toe the dream act, everything about education, he didn't answer when they asked the questions. they are not the policies that matter to us. >> does it show how desperate it is when he throws a tantrum because he doesn't like the introduction? >> of course, he didn't because
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then people were going to know he didn't want to come on but only for 30 minutes while obama was willing to do an hour. obama doesn't mind answering the tough questions. he doesn't mind being truthful with hispanics. . because that's who he is. he's honest. he doesn't have anything to hide. this guy has everything to hide. >> so what is the conversation on spanish-speaking talk radio in florida? >> there's conservative talk radio and the regular talk radio which is talking about the fact that this happened. they have interviewed the actual anchors on univision where this news story broke from the news anchors telling us the difference between the two forums, telling us about the tantrum, telling us the difference in the audience because we, the democrats in the audience that were there, we behaved. we didn't boo them when they asked tough questions.
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they had every right to ask tough questions. >> this isn't the first time romney has pulled this kind of a trick. he flew supporters to the naacp speech in july. he used minors that were forced to attend an event in august. i think this speaks volumes of his campaign e. and stlst new polling that shows that 83% of latino voters are enthusiastic about voting in november. what does this mean for president obama? >> well, i believe that, you know, it just speaks volumes to the fact that latinos understand that obama has been there with latinos every step of the way. the new tax policy, i mean, romney has been talking about his tax policy. we as latinos have children and have families and we care about their education. romney just wants to cut that education budget. >> let me ask you about the taxes. do you think the 14% rate going back to a story we covered earlier tonight is a
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conversation in the latino community? middle-class families? is it a fair rate? is this going to hurt him? >> i think here's the problem. most of us would lose our deductions for our kids of $2,000 so he gives $250,000 deduction for millionaires? we're middle class families. it's not going to go over well with latinos. and the latinos that are supporting romney better wake up and smell the coffee. >> thank you for your time. appreciate it. coming up, mitt romney proves he doesn't understand the science of aviation. you won't believe what he said. stay tuned. [ male announcer ] how do you make america's favorite recipes?
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windows don't open? i'll explain why it's a really bad idea. and in the big finish tonight, the national association of free clinics joins me to discuss romney's latest health care flip-flop. we're coming right back. bob... oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race.
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welcome back to "the ed show." a plane carrying ann romney from omaha to santa monica was forced to make an emergency landing after the pilot reported seeing smoke in the cockpit. an electrical fire caused the cabin to fill with smoke prompting the pilot to land at the denver airport where they were met by emergency crews. fortunately, no injuries were reported. understandably, mitt romney spoke about the ordeal and offered his unique take on aircraft safety. "i appreciate she's on the glound safe and sound and she did you want know how worried
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some of us were. when you have a fire in an aircraft, there's no place to go. you can't find any oxygen from outside the aircraft because the windows don't open. i don't know why they don't do that. it's a real problem." >> in the grand scheme of the campaign, this is not anywhere near a big deal. but he said it. so we'd like to point out a couple things. first, anyone who has flown knows that it the cabins are pressurized. it's covered in that whole safety thing before you take off. and in corporate aircraft, they are pressurized too. when the flight attendant tells you about the oxygen mask? every sixth grader learns about the atmosphere. there's little oxygen at the altitude of a jet. and last but not least, the jet that ann romney was on flies at 500 miles per hour. probably about 40,000 feet.
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new clue what happens to stuff inside a plane going that fast with the windows open? now, you have to remember this is coming from a guy who swears his dog had a great time strapped to the roof of his car for a 12-hour drive. but this is also the man running for the presidency of the united states. you be the judge. ever thought you'd want to open up the windows of an aircraft at 30,000 feet? a little lower. i don't think so. and mitt romney says that's a problem. he doesn't know why they don't do that, but that's a problem. this guy that wants authority over the federal aviation administration. i asked you in our survey, did you think mitt romney paid his fair share of taxes? 4% of you said yes. 96% said no. coming up, mitt romney really outdid himself with this
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answer on what to do with uninsured americans. that's next.
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in the big finish tonight, mitt romney's absolutely eye-popping answer on health care in this country. it's truly incredible. even by romney's standards. here's what romney said when he was asked, does the government have a responsibility to provide
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health care to the 50 million americans in this country who don't have it today? >> well, we do provide care for people who don't have insurance. if someone has a heart attack, they don't sit in their apartment and die. we pick them up in an ambulance and take them to the hospital and give them care and different states have different ways of providing for that care. >> that's the most expensive way to do it. the emergency room. >> again, different states have different ways of doing that. some provide through clinics, some through emergency rooms. in my state, we found a solution that worked for my state. but i wouldn't take what we did in mthsz and say to texas, you have to take the massachusetts model. >> romney is talking about the most inefficient and expensive way of providing health care in this country. and romney himself knows this. here he is in 2010. >> do you believe in universal coverage? >> sure. it doesn't make a lot of sense
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for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and can go to the emergency room and get free care for which they have no responsibility. particularly those with sufficient means to pay their own way. we said, we have an idea. let's take all the money we have been spending to give out free care, paying hospitals that give out free care, and let's use those dollars to help those who can't afford it by insurance. >> obviously in that interview, romney said the exact opposite of what he said in the "60 minutes" interview. there's no such thing as free care. americans without health insurance can go bankrupt from an emergency room visit or two. let's go a little further. a little further back in romney time. in the romney time machine to 2007. >> when they show up at the hospital, they get care, they get free care paid for by you and me. if that's not a form of socialism, i don't know is.
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if people can afford to buy insurance, or if they can pay their own way, then they either buy that insurance, but they no longer look to government to hand out free care. that, in my opinion, is conservatism. that's why the heritage foundation worked with us and was at the celebration of the signing. >> oh, brother. in romney's book, he said he had an epiphany about how to direct emergency room money to people who needed health insurance. that's part of the reason romney care actually worked. now mitt romney is saying, just leave it up to the emergency rooms, which he called socialism back in 2007. mitt romney, you know what he needs to do? he needs to debate himself. we deserve it. i'm joined tonight by nicole lamaro, the director of free clinics. great to have you with us. you're out there doing great
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work on behalf of the people. what's your response to mitt romney saying that we care for people without insurance because they just go get it at the emergency room? >> well, quite frankly, i was flabbergasted. to think the answer is to go to the emergency room, it's ludicro ludicrous. it's used for emergencies. sending the uninsured to an emergency room is absolutely, positively backwards. we want the uninsured to go to doctors to get the primary and preventive care that they need so that they can be productive members of society. sending them to the emergency room when their diseases have exploded is just sentencing them to death. >> romney also mentioned free clinics. can you even begin to address the burden of the uninsured in this country through free clinics? >> well, i can give you -- no.
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let's be honest. free and charitable clinics are doing the best we can, but let's take this example. we're in texas right now. the state that he acknowledged. he said he would never do what happened in massachusetts and give it to texas. we're doing a free clinic on saturday. we already have 900 people registered to come and get care at a convention center. obviously, there's a dramatic need here in texas and across the country. our clinics are doing the work that they do with little to no federal or state support. but we rely on volunteers and donations. it's not our job to handle this entire problem of the uninsured. it just can't be done by us. >> the plan in massachusetts has worked, but he doesn't think it should be applied to other states. what about that? >> i find it absolutely amazing. we have 90 people already regist f


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