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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  February 1, 2013 2:00pm-3:00pm PST

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fighting the vietnam war all over again in the united states senate? the ticked off vitriol against chuck hagel. what is it about is? is it for show? is it about something hagel said in the cloakroom? is it the unfairness of vietnam itself that some went and sond didn't. is it about johnson's inability to win that war or end it. what burns so deeply in john mccain these days? it seems to excite those who knew nothing about vietnam but want to replay it. we big into the deep well of resentment purning in john mccain's patriotic heart. a resentment not against the north vietnamese who imprisoned and tr toured him all those years, no the against george w. bush and his political henchmen who tried to stain mccain's reputation back in 2000, but against a guy who fought against fear and ralliesed against wounds just like he did in the same army of america's long nightmare in vietnam, chuck hagel. a nightmare by the way whose flashbacks must haunt still the
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mind and hart of john sidney mccain. i'm joined by david con and joy reid. both of you, sir and lady, are younger than me but i'm convinced we're watching a flashback. watch this. here is senator john mccain. did he a long, angry windup before he launched into his first so-called question. it was really an indictment for a former senate colleague and former friend and fellow vietnam veteran chuck hagel. it included putdowns as well as references to vietnam. >> in january of 2007 in a rather bizarre exchange with secretary rice in the foreign relations committee after some nonsense about syria and crossing the border into iran and syria because of the surge, then -- and a reference to cambodia in 1970, you said, quote, when you set in motion the kind of policy the president is talking about here, it's very, very dangerous. quote, as a matter of fact, i
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have to say, madam secretary, i think this speech given last night by this president represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam. if it's carried out, i will resist it. in march 2008 you said, quote, hear the term quagmire could apply. >> what are these the fullbright hearings all over again? i lived through them. and this guy is going back into some last year at marion bad kind of weird 1970s movie where you go back into the past that never even happened. why is he fighting hagel over vietnam? >> well, it's interesting because he's ostensibly fighting with him over iraq but it immediately becomes over vietnam. he seems to be mad that hagel took issue with him about iraq and compared it to vietnam being the big blunder, which, of course, mccain and hagel both served in. you know, when mccain talks about iraq, all he wants to talk
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about is from the surge on. it's as if everything before that didn't happen and didn't count, and we can still debate whether the surge worked or not but the bigger issue is whether iraq was as bad as vietnam and he doesn't want to have that argume argument. >> here is mccain sinking his teeth into hagel's ankle here and he wouldn't let go on the question of the iraq surge. again, what david said. let's listen again, back again to the old war. >> were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam? were you correct or incorrect? >> my -- >> yes or no. >> my reference to -- >> are you answering the question, senator hagel? the question is were you right or wrong? that's a pretty straightforward question. >> well -- >> i would like to answer whether you were right or wrong and then you are free to elaborate. >> i'm not going to give you a yes or no. i think it's far more complicated than that as i have already said. my answer is i'll defer that
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judgment to history. as to the comment i made about the most dangerous foreign policy decision since vietnam was about not just the surge but the overall war of choice going into iraq. >> well, there you have it. joy, your thoughts. you're younger. i lived through it. it looks like a flashback. mccain is so angry. is it really about the surge? what is it? did they yell at even other in the cloakroom. >> they both served as you said. they were actually good friends. they were brothers in arms in the senate. you know, john mccain seems to be a man who is tormented. he's tormented by these demons that have to do with the things he was denied. he was denied the presidency, so he couldn't stand george w. bush. he was denied it again so he couldn't stand barack obama and can't stand anyone that barack obama nominates. and the surge was something that was his. i think that almost in a way
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john mccain made the surge into the war as john mccain would have fought it as commander in chief, and anyone who questions it gets the wrath of mccain. and i watched that hearing or that part of the hearing with colonel jack jacobs and patrick murphy, the former congressman of pennsylvania that served in iraq. both of those guys have been at the bottom of the pile as jack jacobs calls it, like hagel and mccain, you just view war differently. but the lesson these two men took from vietnam seems to be so different. hagel took the questioning, the same thing patrick murphy feels, being lied to and knowing that anger that your friends died for what you believe to be a lie. mccain seems to have taken something different from it. >> we're all different. here is chuck hagel in vietnam back in '68 when he went in. he was an enlisted soldier and rose to sergeant. a noncommissioned officer with the infantry, a grunt as they used to say in vietnam. this is navy pilot john mccain with his skraud ron in 1965
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before he was captured. hagel made reference to the vantage point an enlisted man has in war. >> i saw it from the bottom. i saw what happens. i saw the consequences and the suffering and the horror of war. so i did question a surge. i always ask the question, is this going to be worth the sacrifice, because there will be sacrifice. in the surge case in iraq, we lost almost 1,200 dead americans during that surge. and thousands of wounded. now, was it required? was it necessary? senator mccain has his own opinion on that shared by others. i'm not sure. i'm not that certain that it was required. >> you know, the horror of vietnam where i wasn't, i always point that out, the guys who were, into the jungle, fighting an enemy you couldn't see. there were no p.o.w.s in the jingle wars. they didn't take prisoners. you know, what we did with ours,
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we turned ours over for god knows what kind of treatment. that was a horrible war. the p.o.w.s were the pilots shot down and used as bargaining chips but the war itself was even worse on the ground. it's fair to say guys who had to fight the ground war, the grunt war like hagel saw it in all its horror. >> and complexity and the knotty dilemmas. you can see great movies like oliver stone's "platoon." >> oliver stone was good at that. >> that's a dichotomy. you have people like john kerry and chuck hagel who talk about their experiences in vietnam and saying, listen, we think a land war is the last resort. and they have someone like john mccain, and this is a point you have made a couple times since the republican convention, he called for about six wars in his speech in tampa, john mccain did, and so they both -- >> new ones. >> new ones. and major wars. and so he seems to sort of come back from vietnam as if he wants to do it right in another way, and he has this whole thing, people forget, about teddy
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roosevelt and teddy roosevelt who did a lot of progressive things on the foreign policy front believed national greatness and his own personal greatness would come from war. >> the great white fleet. >> and so mccain seems to have some of that in him, which is not present in john kerry. >> joy, somebody said to me the other day when you watch the whole hearings the other day with in nitpicking and attack and baiting really about israel and stuff like that, we all could see the baiting, especially by lindsey graham here, i will show it in a second, it didn't have much to do with the kind of military force we need in the 21st century. the kind of decisions that need to be made. how big of a footprint? how many troops did we leave in a country. ? how many wars can we fight? how do we use drones and personnel. none of that. >> exactly. i totally agree with you. i was watching it and going why are we having a discussion about something that's over? the iraq war is the past. they were fighting about the past. what about the new military, the
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modernization, the down sizing of the military, the drones, things people are talking about today. the next secretary of defense is not going to have to deal with iraq. iraq is a fait accompli, but john mccain is obsessed with the past and with the glory of war idea that is from the 20th century. he needs to move on. >> here is lindsey graham bad r badgering defense nominee hagel on whether the iranian national guard should be designated a terrorist organization. i think this is aimed directly at south carolina's right wing. let's listen. >> if there was a vote on the floor of the senate this afternoon to label the iranian revolutionary guard, the people who have killed our soldiers in iraq, some of the most vicious people to the people of iran themselves, if there were a vote tomorrow or this afternoon or
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after lunch, would you still vote no? >> well, i would want to know from the president what they were doing, but, again -- >> i mean, you read the paper, you watch tv. you got any doubt what they're doing? if you had a chance tomorrow, today, after lunch to vote to say that the iranian revolutionary guard was a terrorist organization, would you still vote no? >> well, the reason i voted no to start with -- >> i know why -- you told me that. my question is would you reconsider and would you vote yes this time? or would you still vote no? >> times change, i recognize that and, yes, i would reconsider, but the whole -- >> well, thank you. that's encouraging. my time is up. >> you want to know what the mccarthy period was like a little bit. what the inquisition was like a little bit, the star chamber, that. gee didn't give him a chance to answer the question. it wasn't about the issue itself. it was about lindsey graham grandstanding for the five minutes he gets.
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there's a whole other story about how congressional hearings have really gone downhill over the last 10 or 20 years, five-minute questions you don't get to develop a train of thought, you don't take in the answer and have a real discussion. you saw yesterday far more talk about what hagel might have said about israel a couple years ago than about afghanistan. >> they wanted recantation. they wanted him to recant like -- excuse me, ecclesiastical proceeding. turn the candled upside down. >> they feel he turned on them, turned on the neocons and they want him to cry uncle. the neocons who are led in the senate by john mccain and lindsey graham, they see chuck hagel as the human road block and the symbol that barack obama, that president obama is not going to let them have their war in iran, and that is their problem with chuck headachel. >> i think our brains are connected. i say that again, joy. you're so smart. because i agree with your words as you speak them. they're brilliant. i'm serious. i'm not patronizing.
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i think you're unbelievable. >> i appreciate it. >> i keep hearing my brain talk. thank you joy reid. i think we're redundant. thank you, david corn. coming up, it's hillary clinton's last day at the state department. what a ceremony we saw today. what a show. it was like a political convention. it's the first day of the rest of her life actually and it may include a 2016 campaign for president. she hasn't said whether she wants to run, but there are plenty of democrats out there just waiting for her to say i do. also, men behaving badly. we have touched on that already. we showed you john mccain and lindsey graham's rude behavior and they're hardly alone. the lesson many of the gops seem to have learned from 2012 is if you want to stop losing cleks just keep doing exactly what you've been doing. strange lesson. the documentary the gatekeepers is a fascinating look at the people involved with dealing with palestinians in the occupied territories. they're a lot more like barack obama than like benjamin netanyahu. finally, let me finish tonight with a chance of a
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fabulous massachusetts delegation to the united states senate now. elizabeth warren and edward markey. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. to the best vacation spot on earth. (all) the gulf! it doesn't matter which of our great states folks visit. mississippi, alabama, louisiana or florida, they're gonna love it. shaul, your alabama hospitality is incredible. thanks, karen. love your mississippi outdoors. i vote for your florida beaches, dawn. bill, this louisiana seafood is delicious. we're having such a great year on the gulf, we've decided to put aside our rivalry. now is the perfect time to visit anyone of our states. the beaches and waters couldn't be more beautiful. take a boat ride, go fishing or just lay in the sun. we've got coastline to explore and wildlife to photograph. and there's world class dining with our world famous seafood. so for a great vacation this year, come to the gulf. its all fabulous but i give florida the edge. right after mississippi. you mean alabama. say louisiana or there's no dessert.
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this invitation is brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. the republican party suffered a huge blow today. former senator scott brown has decided not to run for the senate seat. brown, of course, won an interim election in 2010 to fill out ted kennedy's term in the senate then lost the seat last year to elizabeth warren. brown was seen as the one republican with a real chance to turn the seat red had he ran and won the seat. however, brown would have to have run again next year to win the full term and that would have made four statewide runs for brown in just over four years. brown's decision makes democratic congressman edward markey the clear favorite. we'll be right back. by the way, brown will run for governor. consumption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain,
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i knew there was something
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really special about this place and that having the honor to lead the state department and usaid would be unique and singular, exciting, and challenging. it has been all of those things and so much more. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was, of course, secretary of state hillary clinton saying good-bye today to the men and women of the state department. now, let the campaign begin. she may not want -- may want some r and r for the short run but already the world of democratic operatives and donors is itching for the big drive in 2016. take a look at the tablet version of "newsweek" this week. there it is, it's most powerful women in history. i think there's an overstatement. nobody wants to be late to this party. wouldn't cleopatra have been pretty power pfl. with me is ed rend yelle and pulitzer prize winning cynthia tucker. why would you put hillary with
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cleopatra. >> cleopatra immediately came to mind for me, too, and i think hillary clinton probably still has some history in front of her to make before she can be declared the most powerful woman in history. >> okay. >> i think cleopatra is a little ahead of her. >> we've settled that. ed markey -- i'm thinking of ed markey because i'm endorsing him tonight for the senate because scott brown isn't running. let me ask you governor rendell. let me try to bother you a little bit. back in 1979 you were convinced ted kennedy could not be beat for president of the united states. you were out there with billy green. i'm trying to hold onto my speech writing job in the white house, you're trying to take it away from me. sometimes change. is it conceivable in your hillary heart that times could change over the next three years and she would not be hot to trot to run, that there may not be this ground swell of support for her. doug mccar they are i'm told by
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the people who live back there in '51 and remembered it, that he was unbeatable in '51 for president when he was fired by truman. the republicans would have ran him and won with him. a year later he was nothing, ike took it away. is it true hillary has the staying power so that four years from now she could be president? >> yeah, i think she does. ted kennedy, remember, was a fairly young senator and hadn't really proven himself. douglas mccarthy was a general and no one knew how he would react to public service. hillary clinton has been on the scene for 20 years, two decades, and has been a fairly dominant player already in american politics for those 20 years. chris, it is unbelievable, i can't walk a block in philadelphia without being stopped by someone thrusting a card in my hand saying when hillary runs, i want to give money. i have never seen anything like it in my political experience of 34 years ever. not anywhere close. not even the obama phenomenon matches the enthusiasm level that's here. could something change in three years?
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of course. three years a long time. but, remember, it's not really three years. if she wants to make a decision, she has to make a decision by next spring, spring of '14. if she make that is decision, she by and large preempts the democratic field. >> what do you tell joe biden that he should do between now and then to prepare to run if she doesn't run but prepare to hit the parachute if she does run? how does he prepare both? >> well, he does everything he's been doing. he goes at it like he's going to be a candidate because i think there's still a decent chance that hillary will decide not to run. i wouldn't bet on it but i think there's a decent chance and then joe becomes the front-runner. joe should continue to make contact, talk to givers. the problem for joe is, and people do love and respect joe, and i'm in that category, but the givers, the people who will decide who really is the most powerful candidate, they're all -- they all like joe but they're all for hillary right now. that's his biggest problem. >> and that's men and women
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both, right? >> men and women both. >> let me go to cynthia. let's look at this poll, most admired woman of 2012. let's look at this number here. hillary clinton, it's not even close anymore the most admired woman category here. 21% for her. the first lady at 5%, which is okay, i guess but not great here. and oprah winfrey, who is like the most powerful woman in the history of the media you might say, televised media, and look at her down there at 4%. it's stun being the domination, if you will, of this one public figure. >> i think that's well-deserved, chris. i really do. i think she has not only done a phenomenal job as secretary of state, but she also -- she ran an excellent campaign in the primaries and when she lost, she threw her support behind barack obama and worked very hard for him and, of course, she worked -- she was his loyal secretary of state. and i think that goes a long way
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with many people. their campaign was pretty bitter. their rivalry was pretty bitter, and i remember all of the questions in 2008. will hillary really join forces with barack obama? not only did she join forces, she worked hard for him, and she was his very loyal secretary of state. and i think for people all over the world, that goes a long way in building up their admiration for her. this was a woman who lost the campaign but when she was called on, she gave it her all. >> let me ask you, governor, you're as good a po l as i know, my question is what did she learn? somebody said just recently the secretary herself said the lessons she learned looking back was she had to be a better communicator. well, that covers a lot of territory. i think what hurt her most was her vote at least for the iraq war. in the democratic confines
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within the caucus voters, the real zealous people in the party, that war was the issue, the opposition to it and the fact that she had voted for it i think really gave an issue to barack obama who as a state senator was out there in chicago in probably a liberal district and he voted against the war without worry being it. she hedged her bets and voted for the war and i think that was her biggest impediment to the winning. i don't think she has that kind of impediment this time around. >> no, and she learned how to communicate with working class folks. if you remember, chris, four or five years ago, hillary clinton's biggest problem was working class women, blue collar women. yet by the end of that campaign, she was racking up huge majorities in west virginia and kentucky and pennsylvania and places like that, and she attracted those working class women. she was like a rock star in the parades we went to in scranton and pittsburgh and places like that. so she learned to communicate as a populist, as a real populist. that will hold her in good stead. i think she learned to save some
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money for contingencies. remember, if they had any money after super tuesday, i think they would have been the nominee but they spent all their money and it was down the chute and she got bad advice. >> bad advice. if you run it next time, it will be better. i got some of those working class women. i know what that look looks like. you're against hillary. if you were against hillary, you were in big trouble no matter what your motive, you were in big trouble. cynthia, you can't wait, can you? >> you know, i think that by 2014 the prospect of becoming the very first female president of the united states will be too powerful for hillary clinton to say no. she's also at person who could hold together what has become known as the obama coalition. i think her biggest trouble, quite frankly, would be taking all of that for granted, the sense of entitlement which i also think hurt her some in
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2008. she has to run as if her life depends on it and not act as if she's taking it for granted. >> after a brief rest, i'm sure she could. thank you, cynthia tucker and my good friend governor ed rendell. thank you for coming. happy friday. up next the "sideshow," and this is "hardball," the place for politics. thank you, cynthia tucker and my thank you, cynthia tucker and my [ male announcer ] there's a story behind the silver of philadelphia cream cheese. it always begins with fresh, local milk, blended with real wholesome cream. going fresh from the farm, to our fridge, in just six days.
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>> well, i just haven't. >> i mean, is there a reason? it seems to be a few states have passed it. obviously that's the needle is moving in a lot of polls. i'm wondering what the reason is? >> i think everybody has a set of beliefs on issues, social issues in particular, that are a reflection of how they were raised and their set of beliefs. i think why you're seeing some of these changes in-laws is because people's views in society have changed. >> well, that was illuminating. schock hation said he's considering run are for governor of illinois. a rough week for some members of the 49 pers. it started when chris sul ver made anti-gay reports on a radio he show. quote, the derogatory comments i made yesterday were a reflection of thoughts in my head, but they are not how i feel. end the story maybe for culver.
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some pointed to the fact that four members took part in a video for the it gets better project, a group that reaches out to teen victims of bullying, specifically lgbt teens. >> there's nothing easy about being young. >> about being yourself. >> every day brings different challenges. >> it defines who you are but something you should never experience is being bullied. >> the san francisco 49ers are proud to join it gets to let all lgbt teens know that it gets better. >> believe in yourself, set goals for yourself. >> look to the future and it will get better. >> that was last august, but in an interview with usa today, two of the players we just saw in the video initially denied participation in the gay rights video. one of them, ahmed brooks said, quote, i think if i made a video i'd rather it. this is america and if someone wants to be gay, they can be gay but i didn't make any video. then he was shown the video.
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oh, that. it was an anti-bullying video. it was a gay rights video. brooks and his teammate eventually agreed gay teens are very often the victims of bullying. the it gets better project has removeded video from the website. up next, republican men behaving badly. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ whistle blows ] hi victor! mom? i know you got to go in a minute but this is a real quick meal, that's perfect for two! campbell's chunky beef with country vegetables, poured over rice! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. olaf gets great rewards for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card! [ pop! ] [ garth ] why settle for less? great businesses deserve great rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one.
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i'm mandy drury with your cnbc market wrap. the dow jumped by 149 points closing above 14,000 for the first time since 2007. the s&p added 15 points and the nasdaq gained 37. 157,000 new jobs were created last month with the unemployment rate ticking up to 7.9%. the numbers were slightly weaker
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than estimates but investors were conferred by upward revisions to november and december's numbers. more positive data on consumer sentiment, manufacturing, and construction spending also helped to push stocks higher. that is it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. have a great weekend, everybody. now it's back over to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." we're seeing a trend i'd say. republican men behaving badly. in fact, they're talking exactly the way they did in the four years leading up to their 2012 election disaster. apparently losing a presidential election senate house seats hasn't dissuaded some republicans from putting their worst feet forward. take chuck hagel's confirmation hearing. some of which we've been talking about already tonight. and secretary of state hillary clinton's hearing over the killings in benghazi. let's listen to another exchange between hagel and in this case
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south carolina senator lindsey graham. >> name one person in your opinion who is intimidated by the israeli lobby in the united states senate. >> well, first -- >> name one. >> i don't know. >> well, why would you say it? >> i didn't have in mind a specific person -- >> do you agree it's a provocative statement, that i can't think of a more provocative thing to say about the relationship between the united states and israel and the senate or the congress than what you said. name one dumb thing we've been goaded into doing because of the pressure from the israeli or jewish lobby. >> the freshman republican ted cruz of texas wanted to get his camera time. let's watch cruz in action. >> in a speech on the floor of the senate you referred to israel's military campaign against the terrorist group hezbollah as a sickening
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slaughter. i would suggest the characterizations -- do you think it's right that israel was committed a, quote, sickening slaughter as you said on the floor of the senate? >> i think, again, i would want to read all of it what i said -- >> what's he doing? perhaps with an eye the 2016 the right wingers didn't spare hillary clinton either. senator rand paul said she should have been fired for benghazi. >> i'm glad you're accepting responsibility. i think that ultimately with your leaving you accept the culpability for the worst tragedy since 2007 and i really mean that. had i been president at the time and i found you did not read the cables from benghazi, you did not read the able qaaibles from ambassador stevens i would have relieved you of your post. i think it's inexcusable. >> it was particularly sweet there if you notice how he suggested she was resigning under pressure, that she was quitting the job because of benghazi even though for months
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if not years she said she intended to serve one presidential term as sge of state. that was a totally dishonest remark. talking about republicans rebranding themselves after their big defeat in 2012 but it doesn't seem as if these guys got the memo. with me right now to discuss it robert costa, washington editor for the national review and sam stein, who is a political editor for t"the huffington post." robert, how would you rate those performances? >> i think these are republicans asking tough questions at a congressional hearing. this is not a big story. these are congressional hearings, not a cocktail party. they should be tough questions. i don't understand the outrage about questions for someone who is going to be running the pentagon. >> sam? >> well, i slightly disagree with robert. >> i thought you might. >> you know, actually it's funny because some of these questions did produce interesting illustrative answers. for instance when ron johnson got hk to say what difference does it make? well, it does make a difference. the problem i found with the questions was they ended up stepping on the news. they became so dem mon stra tiff
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and so theatrical that they ended up stealing the spotlight from the answers. that did a disservice in some respects to the question. >> is the real story the feeder of the questions or hagel's fumbling perform snens i think it's the latter. i think hagel had a dismal performance at that hearing. did he seem competent to run the pentagon? there were a lot of questions even among democrats after that hearing whether he's ready. >> i don't disagree with that. i think hagel had a really poor performance. what i'm say something for these senators -- if you looked at what ted cruz was asking about, association with an israeli diplomat that basically 99.9% of the country has never heard of, what was the point of that? he ended up actually stepping on hagel's bad day by taking some of the spotlight away from him. >> let's go after some of the questioning because i disagree with you and i agree with you. >> not surprised about that. >> what? >> i said i'm not surprised you agree. >> was that sarcasm. let's talk about lindsey graham when you ask a guy who had already recanted his argument about the power of the israeli
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lobby, obviously enormously influential lobby like the nra, heavily funded, heavily activated, strong people with strong minds, everybody knows they're influential, that's why they're there. to say which senator do you know that was bought by them controlled by them, intimidated by them. obviously there's no answer to that question. so what was the purpose of that exchange? what i would submit is it wasn't an interview. it wasn't even an interrogation. it was almost a star chamber attempt to incriminate the guy. in other words, there is no right answer to question. had he named a name of somebody who had come up and said i was going to vote for that but somebody got to me and said i better not, if somebody had said that to him, he would have been dead in these hearings. i'm just saying what the questions were along the lines of, have you stopped beating your wife? there was no informative answer. >> you're calling this a mccarthy hearing, a star chamber -- >> yes, it is. >> you think when democratic senators met with hagel behind the scenes they weren't asking about his comments -- >> sure they're asking by the
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way they got the answers. they got the answers, but i believe what happened is this guy was walked on the plank. he was told by mccain and lindsey we're satisfied with your answers, and that's all the words that came out of the preliminary discussion. they got him in and they jumped him. or theatrical purposes. >> he had been given truth serum chuck hagel could have pointed to himself as somebody who had been influenced by the israeli lobby. a lot of previous statements he had to walk back. he could have said you're looking at him. >> you're saying this is theater to ask about the jewish lobby comment. i think it was the right course of action in if a senator in a congressional hearing, if they made that kind of comment in a public -- >> we're a month into this discussion though. the trouble is, rocket, we're a month into the discussion with back and fofer foths and recantations for weeks and to go in there and act like none of this ever happened -- >> it happened in the press and it happened before the official hearing. this is the official hearing to
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confirm -- >> okay. i will stick to what i'm saying. they were interested in his defense policy would have asked about it. >> i want to make one point. the number of times that israel came up i think in words was about 160-plus. the number ever times they talked about afghanistan was really into the dozens. if you look at the weight of each issue facing the next defense secretary, you would admit that -- >> but hagel brought a lot of this on himself by talking about the jewish lobby. >> once. >> 3450i point is if you go through this hearing and they ask a question been eld statement once, fine, two, okay, three times. it became so repetitive it looked like they were there to score a political point. maybe that's what they wanted to do. >> this isn't a classroom discussion. they had to drill -- >> what was the point of senator rand paul saying in the tape we just showed that hillary was being run out of the state department -- >> what's wrong with asking tough questions -- >> it was an aserltion. it wasn't a question. she's quitting because of that. >> doesn't he have a right as a u.s. senator to make an
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assertion about her handling. >> a dishonest statement -- that could be your opinion but he's allowed to have an opinion. >> that's an opinion? it's a dishonest statement. >> there's your opinion. >> is there any possibility that hillary clinton is leaving the state department because of what happened in benghazi? any possibility of that? >> i don't think so. >> then why are you saying that's within his right to say so. it's a dishonest statement. >> he thinks though -- >> how do you know he thinks so. how do you know he's not trying to destroy her reputation. >> he looks at the disaster that was how the state department handled it -- >> 7nd a he's saying hillary clinton has -- >> no one knows hillary's total motivation -- >> i don't want to get in the way of this. >> anybody wants to watch the tape, we'll show it again and again. he basically said hillary clinton is leaving the state department because of what happened in benghazi, a totally dishonest scurrilous statement about somebody who served the country for many years. it was an awful thing to do, a cheap shot by a not much of a person. and that's a problem and that is vindictive politics it's not the role of the senate to play that part. >> it is the role of the senate
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to play -- >> why do you keep going back robotically -- >> i'm not going back robotically. you're pinpointing rand paul's comment -- >> the mad dog attack on hillary clinton, the mad dog attack on chuck hagel is extraordinary in senate history. i have never seen people come on senate hearings and say yes or no, yes or no, yes or no. you don't talk -- >> mccain used to do the same thing to rumsfeld when rumsfeld -- >> your point being zm i'm saying mccain is always combative. to say it's a partisan thing -- >> it wasn't partisan it was personal and strange. i'll go into it later in the show. thank you robert costa for defending the indefense cybill. it's true. sam stein. thank you. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ dog barking ] ♪ [ female announcer ] life is full of little tests, but your basic paper towel can handle them. especially if that towel is bounty basic. the towel that's durable, and scrubbable. in this lab demo, bounty basic is stronger than the leading bargain brand.
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the former mayor of new york ed koch died m morning and here is part of the lead paragraph of robert mcfadden's brilliant obituary in today's norgets. he called koch the master showman of city hall who parlayed shrewd political instincts and plenty of chutzpah in three tumultuous terms of mayor of new york with all the tenacity, zest, and combativeness that personified his city of golden dreams. he used to walk the streets of new york asking how am i doing? ed koch was 88. we're all having such a great year in the gulf,
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dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. [ speaking foreign language ] [ speaking foreign language ] >> well, this is going to be a familiar topic around here. we're back. that was a clip from the academy
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award-nominated "the gate keepers" which opens in select cities today. the film takes a look at intelligence agency and interviews six of its former heads. the surprise here is they sent a lot more like chuck hagel. it's led to human suffering on the part of the palestinians and has been banned for israel itself. and like president obama, they argue for the need to engage your enemies, even hamas and horan. in other words, these men wouldn't fit in very well in the republican party here in the ugs right now. they might even get badgered by lindsey gram. the film is directed by dro droy moray. thank you so much for this. i guess we always know in the state here, as you know, that military are very hesitant. they know the limitations of war in the unexpected horrors and costs of war.
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tell us about -- because i don't think most of us who follow israeli politics here, are fully aware of the views you got from your people in the military, the top intelligence people there about israeli security. >> look, the basic thing is where do you want to lead this conflict. not tactically. tactically, those guys can do anything that can -- they can do. i mean, they are targeted assassinating, they are the ones dealing with interrogation, they are the ones that are issuing the curfews. but at the end of the day, where do you want this conflict to lead at the end? and these guys are coming and saying very, very strongly that israel should strive very strongly towards a two-state solution to try to reconciliate with our palestinians. so, well, basically, you are right completely. they do not understand the policy and they are more understanding with barack obama's moll si. >> you know, a couple weeks ago, those settlements cutting off the loop between the access bank
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and east jerusalem. it looked like he was shutting off the stance. >> well, they spoke a lot about doing that. no prime minister has done that building in the e-1 territory, disconnecting, basically, the prospect of connecting to the palestinian territories. this is before the election to the extreme right wing in israel. but i think that the election has proven for i don't know how many times that the israeli public is much smarter than the politicians in there. and they say to him basically they wanted to go center and not go to the extreme right which he wanted to do. >> what do you think? you're a pretty young guy. you look down the road for israel. you look down the road for israel. and always like to be optimistic about that country. do you see a chance for some reasonable situation, say 20, 30 years from now where there's enough of a middle class in the west bank where they have some stakes in peace.
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the country itself is not willing to punish terrorists. i always thaugts that was the standard. unless arabs are willing to kill arabs for jews. can you see that arriving in 20 years? >> i think what is the gate keepers are saying to us, they are saying that this depends on two great leaders that has to be, at the same time, on both sides of the equation. and this has never happened up until now. if you asked me honestly, yok that this can happen. we don't have those leaders. and unless there will be an immense pressure, coming from the u.s. e, especially on the white house. well, i wish we could give you back them. it's up to the level of these guys. >> i have to agree with you. those amazingly, tremendously great leaders were always assassinated by the extreme religious partners on both sides. that, as you mentioned, either
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the extreme right wing in israel who assassinated. this is the tragedy in the area. >> i wishl you well of the gate keepers who's going to inform you this turbulent and devicive as ours. thank you dror moray. when we return with a dynamic massachusetts delegation to the u.s. senate. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and class-leading 38 mpg highway...
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