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tv   The Cycle  MSNBC  April 12, 2013 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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i'm toure. right now on "the cycle," the vice president's son on the fight for gun control and the battle his dad is leading. >> secretary of state john kerry make his first official trip to south korea and downplays the threat from the north. >> what is the solution for a better functioning government? we've got a policy fresh from the white house who says the answer is simple. the answer is literally simple. >> i'm krystal ball. inside the city at the heart of the manhattan project. and i'm not talking about toure's friday nights out on the town. >> what a song to begin the show with. today's example of why there is a growing push for gun control come from north carolina. the university was on lockdown for two and a half hours after
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professors reported a man with a rifle on campus. thankfully, it was a false alarm. but it highlights the serious response when this type of credible report comes in. the issue of gun control will again document flate the capitol next week. two votes are set to expand background checks. the first comes tuesday, mostly procedural. the next one is thursday on the bill itself. some states are taking action like mississippi, michigan and idaho which have loosened gun laws while others like connecticut, new york and colorado are strengthening them. delaware is trying to get something done. one republican is merging his proposal for tougher penalties on repeat offenders with a similar one present by state attorney general bo biden. he is now in "the cycle" with us. welcome. >> great to be with you. >> this legislation sounds really valuable. it focuses on what criminals do with guns. and i think the bigger problem is what, when we deal with people we know, intimate
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partners, friends, neighbors with guns who are angry or depressed, women, especially, are twice as likely to be shot by someone with a gun than a stranger holding any implement at all. domestic disputes. 12 time more likely to end in homicide when there is a gun in the house. when there is a gun in the home. five times more likely for the likelihood of women being killed increases five times. so what is your legislation or what can we do in the future to help that side of the problem? >> well, a number of things we can do in terms of the statistics. the one that starts me all the time is of the 30,000 deaths by weapons each year, two-thirds are suicides. one of the things that we'll be focusing on in delaware, including pursuing a universal background check which we passed in one house, in the house of representatives in our legislature two weeks ago. moving forward to the senate. the other piece we'll be introducing next week is another
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part of package. that is expanding and broadening the category of folks who have a mental health issue that we believe should prohibit them from possessing a firearm. as you know, only those that have been adjudicated mentally ill, which is a very high standard, basically being involuntarily committed to a mental institution are prohibited. we'll introduce legislation next week that says if you are believed to be a risk to yourself or to others by your health care professional, that health care professional would have an obligation to report that fact to a police agency who then would initiate a process to make sure that you do not possess a firearm. you would have due process rights and you have a judicial proceeding. but to make sure those people who are mentally ill, that doctors believe shouldn't be in possession of a weapon, don't have them. only 1,300 people in 2010, for instance, were prohibited from possessing firearms because they were adjudicated mentally ill.
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this will broaden that. it will be constitutional and save lives, ultimately. >> attorney general, i really love and strongly support stiffer penalties for gun crimes and i like legislation that focuses on criminals rather than law-abiding gun owners. i think that's smart. your dad had a conversation with james baker of the nra in which vice president biden told him, look, we can't prosecute everyone who fails a background check. so before we get to your plan, before we can incarcerate or punish the gun criminal, we have to prosecute him. and before we can prosecute him, we have to know who he is. and before we can know who he is, he has to sort of willingly submit to these background checks. do you see where i'm going? it is hard to imagine how we get to the punish phase when we're not even at the prosecuting phase. >> that's a fair point. that speaks to the legislation we introduced earlier this week. i jumped the gun and talk about
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the legislation we're excited about introducing next week. the legislation we introduced on monday of this week stiffens the penalties for what we call persons prohibited in our state. with the specific emphasis on violent felons. if you are caught in our state, if this legislation is passed and i believe it will be. it has been introduced in a bipartisan fashion. if you're a convicted felon who has a violent felony in your background, you have face three years. the you'll go away from five years manner to minimum. if you have two violent felonies in your past and you're picked up on the streets of our state if this law is put into place, you'll to go jail for ten years mandatory minimum. so you're right. this does have to be an enforcement part to this. all of it is part of it. i felt like what senator toomey said yesterday. he said this isn't a gun control effort. this universal background check. it is common sense. more so, i would say it is a law enforcement issue. application of the universal
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background check in a universal fashion is law enforcement, law enforcement tool. >> attorney general, what do you say to those who say we have 5% of the world's population but 25% of the world's inmates and we had 2.3 million inmates right now. is the problem really that we don't have enough people incarcerated? is that really the root of the problem? >> well, a lot of people smarter than i am at universities around the country and around the world who could better answer that question. my job as a law enforcer is to put those people in jail who have broken the lawful there is a bit of a push right now for everyone from the kato institute to progressive outfits who make the argument that we should let people out of jail. i'm not convinced that's the right strategy. what i am convinced of, we should make sure we have the right people in jail for as long as possible to make our streets and our communities safer. so there's at love energy being spent on the far right and the far left, quite frankly, that i
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think might be misspent in terms of some are doing it from budgetary perspectives. some are doing it because some of the laws are too tough. the most people in the middle recognize that law enforcement needs to do its job of sure those who have broken our laurks violent felons, particularly, those who put our kids and neighborhoods in danger should go to prison for a long time of that's what the legislation we introduced earlier this week intends to do. >> you know, watching the vice president, he really seems to have a lot of heart on this issue. i think the people in washington wherever they come down on how to regulate gun safety people have been moved by obviously what we saw. has that come up in your conversations with him? what are you learning about this, not only as a policy maker and a law enforcement official and as a son. >> as a son i've been privileged to watch my father answer the president's charge in coming one
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a comprehensive set of measures that protect kids. ultimately and our families around this country. i've watched my dad late into the night on the phone with the mothers and fathers, the survivors of this, of these tragedies in connecticut. and listened to them. mostly in the listing mode. sharing his, you know, he does share one thing in common with those, the moms and dads in connecticut. he lost a child at a young age. a different tragedy. there's is harsher and more public. i don't i don't ever grade the tragedy that a parent has in losing one is no more or less paperful than another. i've watched my dad listen. and i know it is, it had an impact on him as it has the nation. as he develops the policy to make sure that we don't have to know, no other parent has to go
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through what happened in connecticut. >> let's turn to mortgage fraud for a second of you've sued a private national more gang registry about deceptive trade practices. how is that going? >> well, we sued them. in the state of delaware. we resolved that matter with them last year. by way of a settlement. we got some movement for them to follow some other practices and have kind of more transparency in how they run their operation. they're going to follow some of the protocols they put into place with the occ. also the comptroller to provide more transparency and the more gang market. one of the things we did that was more productive than that. we change the law in the state of delaware that says if you have been foreclosed upon, and before you have to answer the petition, there has to be mandatory mediation. what we saw was when we forced
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these mandatory mediations which quite frankly weren't happening. people we heard from in our state and around the country was that they could not get their banker on the phone. what happened was, we've seen a high success rate. those who go through the mediation program, the banker has to, about 80% of the people who go through it, something other than a foreclosure results. what we've seen are foreclosures in the state of delaware drop off precipitously over the course of 2012 into 2013. >> all right. attorney general beau biden, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me on. up next, secretary kerry in south korea has accidentally disclosed swell on north korea's raising concerns of how dangerous the rogue nation might be. the former member house intel and armed services member patrick murphy weighs in. "the cycle" rolling on. the new guy is loaded with protein!
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secretary of state john kerry arrived in south korea this morning and he wasted no time assuring the u.s. ally the u.s. will defend. >> the rhetoric we're hearing is simply unacceptable by any standard. and i am here to make it clear today on behalf of president obama and the citizens of the united states and our bilateral security agreement that the united states will if needed defend our allies and defend
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ourselves. >> the u.s. intelligence report this week reveal that north korea may be capable of arming a missile with a nuclear warhead but secretary kerry played down the report today by saying there is no specific evidence the missile even exists. still, the majority of americans are a bit more jittery and think the government should take north korea's threats to use nuclear missiles very seriously. in the guest spot, someone who monitored the threats during his time in congress as a mexico of house intelligence committee. he is former congressman and now msnbc contributor, patrick murphy. welcome. >> thank you. >> i'm a little concerned about this tick that i've noticed out of the administration. even among some foreign policy wonks. it seem to dismiss the provocations of north korea. they say we've seen this before. kim jong-un isn't crazy. north korea is still a rational actor. i'm wondering, are you confident
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we're doing everything we can in the event that he actually does act on some of these threats? >> well, i think secretary kerry's actions that he rushed and that he is in south korea, his next stop as he is in china. we need china not to be missing in action in this. because china when you look at north korea, the closest allies are china and russia. i would say to you, s.e., i'm concerned. i'm concerned that north korea's reckless talk will lead to reckless action. >> have we heard anything from china? have you heard anything from china that leads to you believe that they may be a little mifed and coming around to our side of this? >> i have. then a few days ago, they basically brushed back north korea saying hold on a second. i share one of your points here. we got to remember, north korea is no joke.
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they have the fourth largest army in the world. they have 9 million people in their military. 1.1 on active duty. and we need to use china, china to use economic leverage. you look how poor north korea is. this is a stunt probably to get a political base but probably to get some type of concessions. everyone of their citizens, they live on 800 calories a day. and we don't want this reckless talk to turn into reckless action. and real quick, their weapons system, as you mentioned, i i'm an iraq war veteran. we're not as concerned as their missiles reaching hawaii or california. what we don't want to happen is that technology to go to iran or to terrorists. >> congressman, very nice to see you on the show. this is your first time. welcome. >> yeah. i'm a rookie. so thanks for having me on. >> you touched on the china piece. i want to dig in a little more to north korea. i'm just not afraid.
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s.e. is in the 54%. this is a typical play book we saw over and over from kim jong il. they rattled their sabre, make threats, get attention, get aid and then they go away. is not this the normal play book that we saw from his father or is there something fundamentally different this time? >> well, he is a new leader, toure, so it is hard to judge him. it is a new player even though he is the son and the third son, the youngest of the bunch. i would say what concerns me, one month from tomorrow, they call for a state of war with south korea. you look at that. we have 28,000 americans that are in south korea. and a lot of folks, listen, i get it. most folks don't serve in the military. most folks don't have their sons or daughters or brothers or sisters over there. who will get in this fight if we have to get in one? and listen, a new leader. i'm glad secretary kerry is
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there. i'm really glad that he is going to china next. we cannot as i said earlier, have china basically missing in action during this moment. >> i want to turn to the president's budget that came out on wednesday. obviously, one of the things he is trying to do is replace the automatic sequester cuts which has a huge impact on military spending, as you well know. do you think that this is the right balance? the president striking here? and do you speck from your time on the hill that we are in a place now where we're going to get those military cuts replaced or not? >> let's remember the sequestration is, half of it is coming from the defense. we need to make sure we have and continue to have the strongest military in the world. but you have to take into consideration our 17 closest competitors, if you combine the spending on the fence, we still outspend them. we need to start nation building at home. we need to make sure we're
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investing in infrastructure. that's where the job creation can lead to. and those sequestration cuts were haphazard. i would rather see them target in now. not just 20 years from now. target them now but do them in a much more sophisticated way. >> i want to turn to a different issue that has been in the news this week. that's the problem of sexual assault and rape in the military. and secretary hagel has come out and said he wants to change the ability of generals to be abe to overturn a conviction for rape and for other offenses which is an important institutional change. but when i'm looking at this problem, you know, it seem like it is a problem all the way from the bottom up. you have a higher percentage of rapes in the military verse the civilian population. you have fewer people reporting. you have fewer convictions. if we just change the
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institution, will we really get at the problem? or is there a cultural problem in the military, too, that needs to be addressed? >> well, there is certainly a problem. you and i have talked about this. there are 19,000 sexual assaults in the military every year. that is outrageous. and as you know, i was a judge advocate, a prosecutor. and i tried some of these scum and that's what they are. they're scum. whether the military or not. whoever assaults a young woman or a young man, really, there's a special place in hell, frankly. but let me tell you something, what happened in italy which is really where senator mccass kell and others are saying, how can you have this general overturn a conviction. that's where the concern is. i agree with secretary hagel that we should basically, if they're going to make these really horrible judgments to overturn a jury that convicted a sex assault, a criminal to overturn that and set them free, then they lost the ability to do
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that. that's why we have to change the uniform code of military justice and to tweak u.s. law to make sure that we take it out of their hands. obviously, that really is a poor case of judgment. i think really set the tone. and i want to make sure we're clear. the military is a great institution. 99% of the folk in the military are awesome. i know them. i talked to them when i taught at west point. in society there are bad apples. that's what we have to deal with here. we make sure that there are no tolerance for these scum that continue to action in inappropriate ways. >> strong words from former congressman patrick murphy. we appreciate it. >> it's friday. i should be happier than that. thank god it's friday. >> it's okay. we appreciate it. thank you. >> thanks, guys. now for the moment we've all been waiting for. cycle alum steve kornacki starts his new show up tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. you can bet it will be full of
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the political wonkiness and steve is that we've grown to love and speck from him. and somehow he made us all understand. remember when he took on chained cpi. >> obama has actually put on paper proposals for entitlement reform. he put on paper in the run to the sequester this whole thing called chained cpi. a benefits reduction for social security. >> oh, okay. steve will have more on that in the president's broughter plan tomorrow. but there's got to be a sexier name than chained cpi. we want you to renail it for us. one person said it is another version of cpr that helps keep the economy alive. and when ari posted the question on twitter, jose conseco, yes, that jose canseco said we should rename it seniorcide. good report he work, ari.
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like us on facebook and don't forget to catch steve tomorrow morning. up next, an episode of glee on school violence is sparq debate around the water cooler today if those still exist. was it exploiting strategy to stay relevant or cathartic? carfirmation.
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fox's glee has tackled many issues. at night it dealt with an issue that has stolen the headlines over the last four months. >> let's get started. everyone, spread out and hide. spread out and hide. over there.
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>> what are you doing? >> if we don't get out of here, people need to see this. does anybody have anything they want to say? >> yeah. >> i love you, dad. thanks for like, everything. i know i don't always let you know it but you taught me a lot. >> not a normal episode of the show that i don't watch. that episode had been in production since before the sandy hook shooting. nobody was hurt in the episode. but it did spark a conversation about the world that entertainment plays in big social issues. let's have one here. the table i fully expect this sort of thing. school shooting to be portrayed in these sorts of shows. gets to the heart of what americans really care about, think about, and are fearing right now. i remember when i was in grade
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school. when they talk about cold war fears and nuclear anxieties. >> you are so old. >> you are so inappropriate. the culture is constantly reflecting those sorts of fears. i could have used your youth and inexperience. i was disappointed that the writers of glee put the viewer in the view of the school girl. to put it in terms of that mentally handicapped person. the mentally handicapped, the mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims of violence than to be committing violence. and yes, mentally ill people like adam lanza and mentally ill is different than mentally handicapped. but they have committed gun tragedies without a doubt. but many people who are not mentally ill have also committed gun tragedies. and the commonality is the prevalence of guns in america and how easy they are to get. >> obviously we disagree on guns. i think i agree with you that popular culture can comment on
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big complicated social issues. kit do that very well. and it can do it very poorly i think as we all learn with accidental racist. and i think this is an example of doing it poorly. i was also disappointed that they put the gun in the hands of the down syndrome girl. it really just sort of ignores reality. the reality that mass shootings are not committed by the popular, well-liked students with no history of mental illness or marginalization. and i think it is unrealistic, unless glee is planning on spending the next 10 or 20 episodes reeling from this traumatic event, as would happen in normal life, then it really isn't tackling this issue in a meaningful way. i imagine the glee students will be back to normal within an episode or. two that's not how it happens. so these are very big complicated issues that you
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can't just shorthand in an hour because you happen to have a show that's set in a school. i think it feels a little exploitive and a little cheap and lazy to me. >> you are certainly correct that media and pop culture can take on big social issues and do it very poorly. i was reminded of season two episode 9 of saved by the bell. let's take a look. >> i need them. i need them. >> you can't sing tonight. >> yes, i can. ♪ i'm so excited ♪ i'm so excited ♪ i'm so scared -- >> that just happened. >> i mean, i will say that i remember that. >> saved by the bell. >> i remember that vividly. >> me, too. >> it is like the episode i remember the most. >> me, too.
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>> so it does have some sort of an impact. >> what was the impact? did it scare you away? >> i thought she was so scared. >> it was caffeine pills. i remembered it as being much bigger in my mine as a child. watching it. but to take on what you guys were saying, you know, it doesn't seem -- i'm not a fan of glee. it doesn't seem like this episode was particularly well done but i don't feel outraged or upset by it. i think it is understandable that they would take on shooss like. this glee has tackled issues before, bullying, teen pregnancy, et cetera. this is not new ground for them in that sense. and i don't necessarily have a problem with it having been the girl who had down syndrome having the gun in her hands. i think no matter whose hands you put the gun into, it could have been potentially problematic. you're talking about administration it more realistic. more realistic is a white boy
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who is sort of a loner and socially awkward in school. that could so fear people who are different in school and create negative stereo type that way. i think wloofr's hands you put the gun into. >> here's what was more powerful about the way they set it up. it was scary because people watched it and identified with the victims. or potential victim of gun violence. and that is unusual. because the reason why so much media and pop violence glory identifies violence is because we see it through the eyes of the killer. not the wider community terrorized by it. when people look at die hard or pick whatever movie, they generally tend to identify with the judged of killing as a thing that is, if not good, necessary, it advances the plot, it is what heroes do or need to do. so it is very different when you go into one of these contexts that is clearly evil and just victims and you see the pain and the fear.
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so there are these studies. a big study in 1992 that showed the average elementary school student will have seen 8,000 killings on tv when they finish elementary school. but a lot of those killings are in the service of entertainment and not done in that more serious way. >> that was the hand health camera. >> the blair witch project. >> to make it feel very serious. >> and even in that clip, you sort of saw the room of people, they weren't murdered but you saw their fear and you saw them as characters that you identify with. i think that is at least to my mind very different than a lot of what passes for the coverage of violence in modern media. >> i think they've made a fan. ari melber will start watching. >> let me be clear, it was no "saved by the bell." >> our next guest has been dubbed the most dangerous man in america by glenn beck? i think i'm going to love this guy.
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>> what? >> it's nice. i'm not feeling it, you know? what about this idea? i know a guy who cuts glass. >> no. i took measurements. i look at colors. we came here. this is the plan. >> yeah. it's just, this table feels kind of uptight. i think something a little more fun would be bear table for me. >> i don't know, chris, maybe a more fun table wouldn't be as supportive. no, no, we are not doing this. we are not letting this table be a metaphor for this relationship. that's what ikea wants us to do. >> we all know the bubbling rage. our next guest said it is no accident these stores are designed to overload your decision system so you will break down, crack and buy thing you don't need. he has some experience dealing with overload. he spend three years in chank regulations for president obama with a focus on simplifying everything from the food pyramid to the rules for getting alone.
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and he is quite the background in some confusing and complicated processes. he did work for the government, after all. a harvard law school professor and influential scholar. he has earned more academic citations than any other law professor alive. his newest book is simple. the future of government. you talk about science research and the defaults that lead to our choices. why is that important for policy making? >> if you have a rule that says, if you don't do anything, you're enrolled in a retirement program. if you don't do anything, you yield your privacy protections. that will actually determine the eventual outcome for a lot of people because people are busy and they often won't shift to default. if you have a cell phone plan, a credit card plan, savings plan. the default judgments, what happens if you don't do anything may end up being determinative. >> if you want to shift that or nudge it to use the language from your book, you talk about the research about how you make
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people think of the future which is not something the system one part of their brain as you describe it naturally like to do. so we've got a picture here from one of those studies that shows a person in the actual photo there. and then they have a digital avatar. then a person as imagined there. who cares about an old picture, right? what the studies found is that apparently people will actually double their retirement savings just by looking at their older self. what is that all about? >> what it is about is that for many of us, the future is like a foreign country. it is someplace that we may or may not visit. so when people are thinking about their future retirement or their health or something else that involves the future, they think of those as kind of strangers. those people themselves. what the avatars do, gosh, that will be me in a while and maybe i should have some regard for my own future self. >> you talk about paternalism is
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your friend. so does government have the right, perhaps the imperative to get involved with public health places? we talk about the soda ban or the soda can ban. seatbelts, smoking, these things in does government have the right to protect people from themselves or should government let people do what they want to do? >> the first answer is that freedom of choice is completely central to our society. that's a good thing. that's part of what make us a free society. so that government should let people go their own way most of the time. there are ways to help people that are not eliminating choice. so one thing that smart governments do is to inform people of risks. so one of the things the new consumer bureau is trying to do is ensure that people know before they owe. in the health care system, a lot of the new affordable care act is a disclosure law so people know stuff before they make decisions involving health care. that's a form of paternalism in a way. the government is getting
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involved in people's additions. it is very light because it doesn't eliminate freedom of choice. >> i was fascinated by the agency that you were the head of which, correct me if i'm getting this wrong but it does a cost analysis on any government agency passes and decides, go or no go. it is so, most americans have no idea this agencies exists and yet it has seemingly so much power. is there a lack of transparency just within that agency itself in. >> it has existed since president reagan. it is very open. it doesn't have a very exciting or catchy title. there is a website that has everything it does. you can see all the regulations that are under review. and what the office really does is it operates as a kind of check and partner with other parts of the government to make sure that regulations are consistent with the law. that they're not hurting the economy in a tough time.
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and that they're really protecting public health and welfare. >> i know you're here to talk about your new book. while i have you, i have to ask you about your other book, animal rights. i know you say that some of your views have been mischaracterized over the years. so i want to give you the opportunity to tell viewers if you still believe that hunting should be banned and animals can sue their owners. >> well, in government, i really didn't focus so much on my own academic writing. and there is a big difference between serving the american people and writing academic stuff. i certainly don't believe that hunting should be banned. hunters are great conservationists. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> if you are one -- >> thanks, i am. >> i am pleased to say it is part of our culture and it shouldn't be banned. in terms of animal suing their owners, i think animal cruelty, cruelty to animals in violation of existing law, that is a bad thing. >> of course. >> i wouldn't focus very much on animals bringing lawsuits. >> i appreciate you clearing that up for us.
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thank you. >> now that you're back in the academy, are you going to hole on to your number one most cited title? or is judge pozner going to take you out? >> well, judge pozner is a tough competitor. he is the michael jordan of academic citations. and i defer to michael jordan. >> thank you for being with us. up next, the amazing untold story of a top secret city right here on u.s. soil during world war ii. a leaving women with no idea at the time that their work would change history. their stories have never been shared until now. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need.
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talk to your doctor about toviaz. imagine living in a city of 75,000 people tirelessly on secret government projects. not only are you barred from talking about or asking about your job but you don't even show up on a map. it is like something out of x-files. you would speck the smoking man to be lurking in the corners. that was everyday life for the women of oak ring, tennessee, which mysteriously rose up from the mud and became a secret city at the heart of the manhattan project. everyone from statisticians to recent high school grads were working on enriching uranium for the atomic bomb and will no idea they were doing it. joining us, the author of the best seller, the girls of atomic city. the story has never been told mainly because everyone was scared they would be abducted
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and sent off to an island. no, really, that's why. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> one of the things that is most amazing is that they kept this secret. how were they able to do that? would we be able to do that? >> i think doing it today would be very, very difficult. for starters, you would have to knock some satellites out of the sky. you would have to get rid of social media. not having television would help. a lot of them, modern ways we communicate. the absence of that certainly played a big role in this. but also, the people on a certain level were kind of happy to keep the secret. because they were also committed to the cause of the moment which was, of course, world war ii. and compartmentalization was a key part in making this entire place run. if you were, for example, someone who inspected pipes every day, you just knew how to inspect a pipe. that was it. you had no idea where that pipe
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had been before it got to you. no idea where it was going after. and you certainly weren't ever told what was going to be going through the pipes. so you just did your job and you didn't ask a lot of questions because that was strongly discouraged. >> leading to my point,long-tern these people emotionally and physically when they realized what they had secretly been a part of? how did they feel? and did any of them get sick because of their proximity to all these chemicals? >> those are two very interesting questions. the first part and one of the things i found moef interesting when i was doing these interviews was that the knowledge of what they were doing kind of dawned on them in stages. the day that the bomb was detonated over hiroshima, 1945, at first people were hearing, you either heard from the newspaper or from the radio. so if you didn't have access to either one of those, you heard via word of mouth, and at first the news was, there has been this new bomb, this amazing new bomb that is is more powerful
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than anything we've ever seen that has been detonated in japan. but then the president gave an address in which he actually mentioned the town of oak ridge and that just kind of turned the town, like oh my gosh, now we actually finally have some idea of what was going on. and then from there, forward, you know, for a while information coming out of japan was rather censored, so even the level of devastation and the ongoing effects of nuclear bombing, those were things that were actually revealed a little further down the line. they were all surrounded by people who were terribly happy the war was over, but at the same time, you know, there was one woman i think she put it best. one woman i interviewed said i was so happy my brother was coming back home. he was fighting overseas. i was really glad the war was over. she said, but then when i heard of the people who died, she said, i like people, that made me sad. and i think that best represents the real complexity of what those people were feeling.
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>> well, denise, i remember when i saw the movie "a league of their own." i thought, how did i not know this story? i'm a baseball fan. it seems like an incredible story. the movie was phenomenal. and it sort of made me think about your story as i was reading about your book. and i'm also -- i'm wondering, i understand why no one was talking about it at the time, of course, but why don't we know this story now? it just seems to incredible. it should be in every history book and there should be movies an this. >> i agree 100%. say that part again? actually you bring up a very interesting point which is that for years, this story has been told in a very top-down fashion. it has always been told from the point of view of the scientists. the robert offenhimers. the generals, the groves, the military, the war department.
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it was always told from the perspective of the people in the know and the people who kind of had all the cards. well, when i first saw this picture that got me interested in this topic, i thought, well, what did these ladies think? i mean, there were tens of thousands of people just like this living through a very significant moment in time, ordinary people involved in an strird moment. i want to hear this story told from their perspective. >> cool. all right. denise kiernan, thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me. up next, toure versus anthony weiner for mayor of new york. hmm. i might want to move. >> what? on a walk, walk, walk. love to walk. yeah, we found that wonderful thing. and you smiled. and threw it. and i decided i would never, ever leave it anywhere. because that wonderful, bouncy, roll-around thing... had made you play. and that... had made you smile.
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♪ i want to be part of it ♪ new york new york city, i'm thinking about running for mayor. it's the greatest city in the world, but i think i can make it a little better. only eyeing a run right now, but i have hired a campaign manager. a talented fellow you might have heard of named ari melber. >> what? >> we've been mulling over promises like finally completing the rebuild of ground zero, ending stop and frisk, paving every pothole road in every borough, and tweak a quote from, and make every last sunday of every month in manhattan a car-free zone during daylight hours and rent bicycles to anyone who wants one. thus giving the city a chance to breathe and refresh and cleanse its soul as it moves slower for a moment, hopefully increasing the sense of community. >> run-on sentence. >> see, my campaign will be all about bringing more joy to the city. >> okay. >> it should be a more vibrant
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place, where cabaret licenses are automatic for every establishment so people can dance all over the place and public artists everywhere, and marijuana is decriminalized and small soda cups are banned because this is new york. go big or go home. >> i like that. >> i was inspired to consider this decidedly bad cap mayoral campaign by my deep love for the city and the overwhelming sense of confidence i got from watching the bid of former congressman anthony weiner. if he can be a mayoral consideration, surely i can. weiner's last name is is now who resigned in disgrace after sending pictures to women while his wife was pregnant. i can promise new york, i will never turn my life into chat roulette and will be running because i believe i can improve new york. not because i want the city to work as my pastor or give me forgiveness or act as my ex-girlfriend i'm trying to win back to prove i'm still lovable. the main thing i learned in "the new york times" magazine cover story about weiner, which is already online, is he seems to be looking at this run as a chance for absolution. he seems like the sort of
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politician who needs love rather than one who craves power. this run seems to be about finding out if we still love him as if we ever did. one of the many articles about the "times" magazine names an unnamed insider saying "i've heard of lots of kind of therapy but never electoral therapy. as a voter i never thought it was my job to help a candidate fill that empty space inside." weiner's lovely wife is standing beside him through the beginning of this second act. she's on the cover of the "times" magazine holding his hand. she's his biggest supporter. he should be. he said after he confessed to lying to her, her first reaction was, you have to stop lying to everyone else. he cries when discussing how much he hurt her and how innocent she is and makes it seem like attacking him for what he did is also attacking her. okay. the man has spent $100,000 on polling to learn victory is unlikely for him, though new

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