tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 12, 2013 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
you've got republicans going in both directions, some pushing harder to make it more difficult for women to have abortions, some insisting on making it easy as pie to buy any gun that you want. the big question, -- are we watching a major party on the road to a civil war. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. good evening, i'm chris hayes, thank you for joining us tonight. john kerry was in seoul south korea with the specific goal of lowering tensions on the korean peninsula. >> the real goal should not be reinforcing the fact that we will back our allies, which we
will. but the possibilities of peace and reunifications. >> the tensions are high. and they are high because north korea has been bellaes could own by south korea. they have a new leader, kim jong-un, and no one knows what he will do. and also with threats against north korea in the united states. north korea is threatening japan, north korean news agency saying if they make the slightest news the spark of war will touch japan first. all of that decorated with plenty of old school soviet style military marchs we like it run on cable news. but other reason tension is high is the rhetoric has been ratcheting up as a public pace. friends at cnn haven't covered a story like this since the poop cruise. >> north korea's neighbors have their defenses up right now. stand by for reports from the region. >> new reports this morning, north korea moving missiles closer to its east coast.
>> fox news alert on new evidence that north korea could test a missile. >> a missile lunch could come at any time and without warning. >> puts sorj korea at striking range, japan, and guam. >> all that is one step removed from this headline, nuclear war, unavoidable. >> the thing that tipped this discussion, if you can add, over, the story here to broaden more weight was this item. poent pent gone, north korea could launch nuclear missile. the intelligence agency concluded that north korea was capable launching a miss well a nuclear warhead, albeit a reliable one. >> i'm not an expert but i loved through the iraq war. when people start talking about threats and war, everybody needs to double the amount of skepticism and the left of critical rigor to the matter. so what exactly is the deal with this ominous sounding defense intelligence agency report? the precise revelation, this
assessment by the d.a. was disclosed by a congressman named doug lamb born from colorado's fifth district reading an unclassified portion after classified report at hearing. the congressman confessed he hasn't read the entire report he's quoting from. i have not read the entire seven-page report, he said, i'm in the process of getting my hands on that. the congressman is co-chair of the missile defense caucus. according to open secrets his campaign received $85 million from the defense industry in the last election cycle. he recently wrote that can't possibly be right. well correct that. the op ed for "politico," and millions on missile defense, prompting the pentagon to expand its plans on the west coast at cost after billion dollars. that despite the fact that it is not particularry reliable and skepticism of the intelligence capability that they have improved enough to strike targets like guam. on top of that the congressman
himself says by his own admission for leaking a small bit of the report was to argue against the president's proposed defense cuts. >> and the reason i'm concerned about this is because the president has offered a defense budget that cuts missile defense by half a million dollars. my goal is by calling aattention to the potential threats that we restore knows dollars. >> now, as for the reliability of the intelligence contained in that actual dia nugget, it was immediately thrown into question by the director of national intelligence james clapper who said the statement read bit member is not an intelligence community assessment. north korea hasn't yet demonstrated the full range of capabilities necessary for a nuclear armed missile. cue once more secretary kerry offering the state department's view of the dia report. >> it is inaccurate to suggest that the dprk has fully tested,
developed, or demonstrated capabilities that are articulated in that report. so we do not operate on the prezujs that they have that fully tested and available capacity. >> defense intelligence agency is, by the way, we should note, the same agency that said iraq has nuclear weapons ten years ago. north korea has nuclear weapons. it is no doubt north korea is an outliar. they are a monstrous regime. but when tensions are inflated creating a pull pabl sense of drama it causes citizens to be toward go to war and a nation and citizens toward go to war is a dangerous thing. talking about things in this way has consequences. this is the way you read for violence for something horrible and that is how wars start. joining us tonight from seoul south korea, nbc foreign correspondent david ing el washington correspondent from
the new york times from the table assumy terry and we asked congress mon lambborn to join us but he is a on a plane back it colorado. i want it give you a sense of what the atmosphere itself is on where this stacks up for a long list of moments of tension between north and south korea going all the way back to the 1950s. >> i think this is one of those moments. there is absolutely no probable sense of fear or concern. here on streets people are talking about an upsiding psy concert and new single released by the pop star. people are not heading for the shelters. they think that north korea is playing a game that north korea is trying to extract concessions particularly from the united states that it wants money. that it is playing effectively blackma blackmail, it is using weapons to get cash, food aid.
once that happens threats will go down and then the threats or violent action will come back the next time north korea needs something. >> there's some concern that i've heard that seems credible and not inflated which is that the predecessor kim jong-un's father, was around enough to whereby you go through the mogss that you could reliably predict what he was going to do and in the case of the very young untested leader, they no longer have that. >> that is the difference this time. there have been patterns in the past where the north escalate and the south here in seoul was relatively confident in being able to shrug that off because they nooe knew this was the pattern that north always followed. now we have a new leader, a new leader that has something to prove and a new leader who is willing to take it further than his father and a new leader who has demonstrated a greater capacity than his father had.
when you combine that inexperience of greater recklessness and greater capacity, that is why i think there is greater concern. when maybe not here, that could be something psychological that people in south korea just don't want to think about it. they prefer to ignore it but people in the united states, particularly in the pentagon are increasingly can concerned about it, joeotherwise they wouldn't moving warships and anti-ballistic missile systems to the region as they have done. >> sue, let me go to you as someone who work covering this overseeing intelligence products. what should we make of this small leaked part of this one defense intelligence agency report about a moderate confidence after low reliability nuclear missile capability from north korea. >> that's right. i think first it is important to remember that the intelligence agency is one out of 16 intelligence agencies in the united states, not colluding cia
or fbi and nsa and so on. so now it is one agency's view that is not quite shared or corroborated or by the rest of the intelligence community. when you say medium confidence, what does it mean? it means they probably have a source that they might have a source but not corroborated by other sources. again, as you mentioned, low reliability. translation, maybe they could. they have capacity but even if they do, it is not reliable. >> david, what is the intelligence communities's other members walking this back in the wake of this news report tell you about where the actual intelligence community and have you incredibly good sources there. where they are in terms of consensus o on the threat. >> well, i think chris, the first thing to know is, there is no consensus. but argument as you pointed out writely, is not the iraq argument. it is not whether they have nuclear weapons or not. they have nuclear weapons, they've done three nuclear
tests. part of it is shrinking is down to a size to fit on warhead. besides that, designing a warhead and sending it on a long-range missile it can survive the rigors of the heat of reentry and the incredible -- you know, physical dynamics of that. a lot of warheads, including a lot of early american warheads when they were tested simply broke up under reentry. i think what you are hearing now is the dia, which worries more about protecting the troops, 28,000 american troops, in south korea, and the american troops, tens of thousands more in japan. they are worried about short range missiles or medium range missiles like the nodung and can could they have shrunk a weapon to put on the nodung. possibly.
but there is no evidence that anyone found to prove so. >> so in listening to you su, and with you mark, it does not show the tenor. it does not. i've been watching like crazy graphics of black zones radiating out from different parts, and it strikes me as deeply problematic that we can watch the mechanisms of that to gin up. >> that's absolutely true, chris. i'm concerned about what this says. and i have to put quotes around that and how politicses respond and explain to them as well. i was reading a poll that was taken in south korea by a south korean newspaper on a television show that has 4.5% of south koreans saying that they think that this current crisis will lead it war. cnn took a poll of americans. 51% think that this will lead to war.
and 45% think that north korea, the dprk, is an imminent threat to the united states. we're not -- we're not being educated about how this works. either by the media or by the politicians. >> so if tensions are high, obviously the -- secretary of state kerry went there to lower tensions and they talk about a diplomatic solution, there is a familiarity to tensions and diplomatic offramps. people talk about offramps. su, as someone who studied north korea, what is the offramp here? how do we end up in a place where we aren't at this pitch state of crisis? >> what's going to happen is they will probably do this missile test and we will go back to the u.n. but tensions will come down after the u.s. south korea tour to exercises ending on april 30. >> joint military exercise that happens every spring? >> yes. >> and the now south korean president said let's try to meet and negotiate to see if we can open the complex so after the
exercises end hopefully we, you know, will get back to the table. >> richard? >> yes, david, go ahead. >> i was going to say, the question here is offramp to where? back to the status quo? and if that the case then next spring can you be back to doing this. or is the goal here to do what north korea and south korea agreed in 1992 and what has been the basis of all of the other negotiations, which is dedenuclearize, which secretary kerry suggested today was the goal. i think the difference between kim jong-un and perhaps his father and grandfather is he wants it change that discussion. make north korea more like pakistan. get to the point where people recognize it as a nuclear power and just accepts that. >> interesting. richard, what do you think about that? >> i think that's exactly what north korea wants to do. north korea wants to show the world that it is a nuclear
weapon estate and must be treated that way frps one analyst here described it to me like this. that north korea sees it self militarily at about 10%. and sees its own internal valuation. and sees the united states and south korea which cooperate jointly maybe at 50% strength and it wants to bolster itself so they are equals and from positions of military equals they can start having a dialogue. that is its dream and it believes in order to get there, it has to have a dem o on straighted nuclear capacity. >> mark? ooze i've heard, by the way, i don't think it is fark to characterize the dia's assessment as rogue assessment in the intelligence community. i've heard this for quite some time that many people in the intelligence community believe, although they haven't been able to necessarily prove it, and it hasn't been tested that north korea has a missile deliverable
nuclear weapon. probably not one that can go very far, but probably something like the nodong that david sa sanger was talking about. that does change the calculation. it does change how the world reacts. will the united states treat north korea like a nuclear power, like a nuclear power that can project its weapons to foreign nations? what does that mean, how does it change calculations? i think the u.s. in part is dyinging back because it doesn't make those calculations. >> mark? >> this begs another question. what would north korea do with a weapon? it would be suicidal to launch the weapon, to use it. but it shows in many ways that nonproliferation, zero tolerance of nuclear weapons, being expanded beyond the initial powers is broken. india has a weapon. pakistan has nukes.
israel, south africa had nukes and voluntarily gave them up. so what do you do then? do you sanction countries into crying uncle and saying no, we will give up these weapons? do you threaten them and cause them to think, hey, maybe in nuclear deterrent is more useful for us than not. >> and what we have seen is we've seen the unraveling of the regime sort of thread by thread unravel and now we deal with the crisis on individual -- on a bilateral basis when the next crisis rears its head, unopposed to the the unified framework. >> for a long time. >> su mi terry, richard engel and david, thank you. >> we misreported the amount of contributions received, it was $85,000.
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tone towards paul. the writer freddy de boer said i was giggling from the rook and the sheer lack of any grace among some liberal commentators on what was an obvious outreach to african-americans depresses m me. and a writer i have tremendous respect for accused me of falling short of cable news pathologies, which is bad. critics get one thing right. in going to paul's outright lying i owe mighted playing this bit of the speech, which what's great. and best received by the audience. >> i'm working with democratic senators to make sure that kids who have made bad decisions, such as nonviolent possession of drugs, are not imprisoned for lengthy sentences. i'm working to make sure that first time offenders are put into counseling and not imprisoned with hardened criminals. we should not take away anyone's future over one mistake. >> we should have played that bit of the speech because it is
noteworthy and praise worthy. paul co-sponsored legislation with pat lachey to overrule mandatory minimum sentence if a judge orders a minimum sentence is in order. that's awesome. i hope more republicans and democrats continue to evolve on more sense with the begotten war on drugs. a bipartisan group of congressman who have law stopping the government from prosecuting marijuana sale and possession in those states where they are now legal. here's thing. in a nearly 2900 word speech, rand paul devoted 400 words to the war on drugs and criminal justice reform. the rest is what i criticized in my own coverage and and this a condescending lectures on major party and race relations with an obvious and easily checked o out lie about his spotty record for the entirely of the 1967 act pch i was genuinely disappointed in
paul. when i saw on our editorial calendar earlier in the week that rand paul was speak at howard on wednesday, i was psyched. i thought it would be a great opportunity it deliver a defense for paul for having the guts to take on the tough on crime sake rid cows. to move us toward a more humane approach to crime and punishment. then i got to work and read and watched the speech and i thought the whole thing was a massive missed opportunity. i want very much for there to be a left/right coalition to end the war on drugs and cruelty of our criminal justice system. the coalition build sag two-way street that requires approaching others in good faith and showing up to howard and telling people you always supported the civil right act when you very much hasn't doesn't pass the basic test of good faith. well talk a bit more about rand paul at howard and krugs, crime and race with the great melissa perry harris. a performance with the big
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when we got data back about rates and irregularities, that we hired an investigation company to come in so that the district wouldn't have to be involved in that, we could actually have a third party, look at it. the third party did come in and if you look at usa today, article, the vast majority of it is about one school in
particular that the test investigation company came back and said actually we did the investigation and there's no need for further inquiry. >> as michelle rhee in march 2011 interview with tavis smiley dismissing allegations of cheating in washington, d.c. schools when she was chancellor of the school system. this included firing 56 principals and firing or laying off 700 teachers. there was an amazing piece of reporting that revealed wrong to right answers on standardized tests at d.c. schools. one school specifically touted by rhee herself and by whose faculty received bonuses for test results and new in addition to audit release today finding cheating in 11 d.c. schools during the 2011-12 school year, there's another absolutely bomb shell report on rhee's time in d.c. a previously unreported document
obtained by john mario indicating a widespread cheating problem across the district. 2009 memo from an outside investigator starts with a security note to please treat this document as confidential. don't make hard copies and leave them around. there are 191 teachers representing 70 schools implicated in possible testing infractions by the study. usa today reports the 2009 memo was written by an outside analyst, fai sanford, then invited by rhee to look at math and reading gains. the memo contradicts what legal rhee said about allegations. washington, d.c. is one example in a litany of schools across the country with reports of high stakes cheating. we brought you the story last week with the superintendent of atlanta schools who was involved with 39 teachers for widespread cheating in atlanta schools. they are looking into two dozen
teachers in long island for the same thing. what is so remarkable about michelle rhee specifically is she has gone to the peak of redcation without having to answer to the reports of possible cheating surrounding her tenure. rhee and her organization did not respond to our request for an interview. joining me tonight, john mario, education correspondent from pbs. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> let's set this back to the 2011 about these wrong to right. what is the significant nance. >> standardized tests have different levels of difficulty. if they ran an analysis and see that most kids got easy answers wrong, the hard answers right, and there were erasers and if you find patterns then you know this is not kids doing erasers.
and sandy sanford's memo warned michelle rhee that she add problem. >> one of the things we saw in atlanta in the beverly hall case was that reporters there looked at the eraser rates and took them to statisticians and said kids are foif six times per test erasing things and statisticians said, this cannot possibly be. >> in atlanta, the superintendent denied all that. the difference is that the atlanta newspaper stayed on the case. that didn't happen in washington. and the political leadership in the state of georgia stayed on the case and that did not happen. no one wanted to get at the truth into n washington, d.c., unfortunately. >> what do you mean by that? >> exactly that. when it was such wonderful news, michelle rhee was such a breath of fresh air when she arrived in washington. schools were not great. my kids went to public school in washington, so i know a little bit about it. she was seen as this whirl wind
who would do everything in the best interest of children. then after her first year there were dramatic increases. she celebrated, gave out huge bonuses and then got bad news from sandy sanford and from state superintendent that there with is a problem here. she was about to be on the cover of "time" magazine. just praised by obama and caine. just given o out a million and half dollars in bonuses then was presented with evidence that adults might have cheated. >> that's what is in these documents. this is a memo that an independent consultant who brought in to analyze this data wrote to her -- >> in just four pages, dr. sanford twice raises the possibility that her principals might have done the cheating. in my reporting today, by the way, not just me, four other veteran reporters among us, 175 years of experience in journalism and the 40-page document has got 40 foot notes. i urge folks to read it. he warns, he said, the
principals might have done this. it is an open invitation to investigation. he also, by the way, proposed strategies of how to avoid investigation. this is not all pure of heart. >> so then michelle rhee is presented with with this document. at least her deputy is -- >> i know she saw it. i have a reliable source. we verified this -- incidentally, people are very afraid of michelle rhee. a source high in dcps confirmed authenticity of this. i've been reporting for 39 years. when i took it to this source's home, that person was trembling, as i presented it to this person. i've never seen anyone quite so scared. the other came from the inspector general. we know that chancellor rhee saw this and talked about it. >> so the question is what happened after this memo was written? >> no investigation. there's never been an invest
gafgts 2008 erasers. there have been five semi investigations. none of them involved the serious important work of a deep eraser analysis. they were all limited and they were more after security audit. but of course, the chancellor was able to say, this investigation proves that the d.c. inspector general spent 17 months. during 17 months he interviewed 60 people. you interview 60 people in a week. in atlanta they spent a year and interviewed 2,000 people. he went to one school. there were 91 schools implicated by that time. he never looked at the first year. >> of course the special in atlanta, what finally broke it open, was the governor appointing a special investig e investigative group that had resources -- >> subpoena power. >> subpoena power. and took a lot of time. and an 800 page report that was damning and led to the grand jury. >> what is intriguing is that michelle rhee had carte blanche
and her deputy for five years. if you look at the d.c. schools now, they are worse by almost every single imaginable measure. graduation rate is the worse in the nation. truancy is ep dommic. typical teacher stays two years. it is five years nationally. it is a disaster. >> let me just say, miller rhee isn't here to defend herself and i wish she were. i would love to have her talkback on to talk about this stuff and anyone from her organization. pbs correspondent john peril, thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. , thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. . i'll be right back with click 3. , thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. thank you. i'll be right back with click 3. thank you. i'll
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grasp the long-term effect on players. can you click through the history of football and read not only about the sport's evolution by the effects of playing football has on the brain. you can consider what can be done to protect players today suffering from the same fate. a truly fascinating look into what we explore this week. we encourage to you check it out. second awesomist thing is from congressman steve stockman. stockman staked a claim as allen west successor as most successfully trolling msnbc. he compared barack obama it saddam hussein and brought ted nugent to the state of the union and he sure does like to tweet. like things like, the best thing about the earth is if you poke holes in it oil and gas come out. stockman's latest offering to the world, today he tweeted o out 9 slogan his new campaign bumper sticker. if babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted.
i don't even really know how to begin to formulate a response to that indecipherable phrase. but his pure right wing performance art does havity own kind of brilliance. just when you think there's no hope for humanity, i bring you the third most awesomist thing on the internet. steve kornacki start as host of "up" tomorrow morning. he will bring thought provoking conversation to your week ends. but don't just take it from me, here is "up "super fan, the great carol king, wishing steve well on the "up "blog. >> i'm a huge fan of "up." i've been watching "the cycle" and you are fabulous. i think you will totally rock "up." >> that is the greatest thing ever. you can find all the links for tonight's click 3 on our website. all in with chris.com. use twitter with the mash tag.
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work the camera... work it! those hands. oooh la la! what's your secret? dawn? [ female announcer ] dawn hand renewal with olay beauty improves the look and feel of hands in 5 uses. love it, or get double your money back. here is what i learned at the end of my second league hosting a prime time cable news show. it is definitely a hard job. don't get me wrong, it is a job i'm privileged to have. but it is hard figuring out can which news to cover everyday. a lot of times there's too much news and not enough news. when there's too much big news,
it is hard it figure out what you, the public, need to make smart choices about the way you work, live. and if you happen to be an elected official watching, even govern. when there is too little news, it there is a want it take little news and treat it like big news. maybe that explains what fox news did this week with a coverage after single innocuous single promo by my colleague melissa harris-perry. >> we have never invested as much in public education as we have because we have a private notion of children. your kid is yours and totally your responsibility. we haven't add collective notion that these are our children. part of it is we have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parent or their families and recognize kids belong to communities. once we realize it is everybody's community and not just the household then we start making better investments. >> not a big deal, right? but for reasons i generally don't understand, fox decided this was the most stand
scandalous pressing issue in the nation. >> right now reaction it a show promotion on the cable network msnbc. >> do your children belong to you or the government? now according to nbc news's cable operation, it's not you. >> you may have been given birth to them but according to msnbc, your kids belong to the community. >> melissa harris-perry says your kids don't actually belong to you. >> she said, quote, the community owns your children, not you. >> she is passing the buck. >> the community family has been under attack by leftists. >> msnbc declared war on the american fabric. >> this is utopia by force. this is how fascism become gift wrap. >> leaking beliefs to a norwe li an society. >> i thought when i first heard about it she was speaking off
the cuff. >> you are not sufficiently fired up, and i am. this is collectivism and i don't like it. >> children aren't born to the neighborhood watch. they are born to a man and woman, there's a reason for na. >> never say chelsea should be raised by someone else. >> exactly. >> we fought an entire civil war, megan, to make sure the human beings were not perceived as property by the state or anyone else. >> it is confirmed, stands for socialist nut balls broadcasting company should send a sifr down every parent spine. >> she is not only a news cable host but a professor at tulane university. >> that just a hint of the near constant coverage fox news has devoted to this all week. melissa's promo had more time on fox this week than our own network making it probably the most successful promo in msnbc.
compare the four minutes me list why's promo had to 62 m:15 of coverage the promo got last week on fox. joining me is the one and only melis melissa harris-perry. we were in the office watching and we're like, oh, cool, it's melissa. what is your understanding of why that happened. >> what i like is i think you and i have a similar disposition about this. >> it is not really fun -- no. it suction, if i can say that. >> it is the nature of public life. i said to folks that i had this feeling when i saw mrs. romney on the election night and how down cast her face was. and as the wife after man who ran for public office, i guess that moment. whether we agree or don't
agree -- >> a human moment. >> if it's not fun, who cares. my feelings are not what in question here. but what is worth asking the question is about is why? why this, of the various spots that all of us have done. many hours of television i've produced on the show, what is it about this that raises the ire. i think for me, that's what is intellectually enjoyable the past week, to figure out what it is about those statements that distress people so much. >> and so the next question is, what is it, in your mind? what have you come to. >> what i don't -- i saw that you'd said haters are going to hate. i appreciated that it was kind of an intellectual chivalry that i enjoyed. i don't think it is just that. i don't think it is about hating. i want to talk more about the show. >> i don't want it scoop you. >> i want to talk about it more on the show tomorrow. but i do think there is a central question here about what we think of negative as and positive freedoms.
frees to something or negative freedom, freedom from something. that's an old debate and a worthy debate. >> i will watch your tease tomorrow. i want it talk to you about this ran paul howard speech. i thought the reaction was interesting. and reaction to the reaction. i want your thought on that as long as it is with the i amazing tom well, right after this. prs ...but he'd wait for her forever compared to other leading brands, it has 50% more animal protein. ...to help keep his body as strong as a love that never fades. iams. keep love strong. now you can keep love fun with new shakeables meaty treats.
howard. i was psyched for him to give the speech where would he come out and say, you're coming from a different place than i'm coming from. here is something you and i can see eye to eye on. this is a disaster. putting black and brown people in prison at astonishing rates et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. he did that for a small part. i kind of jumped all over him. a lot of people got mad at me for that. what is your case for defending rand paul at howard? >> well, the man can defend himself at howard. i think it was an interesting speech. he did talk about these issues that are not only talked about by republican politicians but almost never talked about by democrats. it is not acted o on by democratic politicians. two drug war with, war, sentencing reform, and all this stuff. i think where he jerrored, he t to talk about republicans. as opposed to saying, i'm not your typical republican.
i'm a libertarian republican, we do this a lot differently, and here is how. he was in a straight jacket there and he didn't forthrightly deal with the last 40 years. >> right. >> basically. >> tamahazi, you've written a lot about this. on the left, there's this sort of very testimony pest uous feeling. because they sometimes agree with you and sometimes they don't. sometimes they say things you really like and sometimes they say things you really hate. you wrote a lot about rand paul in relationship to race. i'm curious, the whole them you thought, i thought, what does tamahazi think about this speech at howard. >> he grew a great hunt. i went to howard a many moons ago. go byson. but what is what is most illustrative to me, no one around him said you will get the question about civil rights act. you have to have a good solid answer.
this is not a room fall of random black people. this is the mecca. you can't give a lk lecture to these people on african-american people and civil rights. they lived this. they stand under the flagpole and discuss this all the time. i'm sorry, i'm so amazed. what is shows to me is they want people around him that did intelligence work, reconnaissance. this is where you are going. he just kind of walked in. like what did this button do? like sort of random. >> i think you're right. there is actually a libertarian strain within african-american political thought that has the potential moment where it could have connected with rand, right? in those moments, he got applause pb for example, when he talked about the drug war. certainly african-american have critiques about state and local
government. >> in new orleans. >> right. in new o rleans we have our critiques of things. so with the libertarian it doesn't connect, i'm the child of a howard alum what we also know is that that university was set up by the federal government. one of the only two, right? so it is also true that entire tradition could not exist, that space, none of it, except for the intervention of a federal government which after the civil war set it up. >> you got a problem making a case against big government being bad for african-americans. i think you said when big government was coming down to mississippi, to protect black folks from being killed, big government in the time we actually did try reconstruction is protecting black folks from being lynched. you have to acknowledge that. >> he did. he talked about the -- the
centr centrality, the 13th, 14th, 15th. damon pointing out he has a different view than rand paul does. there are people that don't like the 14th amendment and don't want it to be enforced too hard on the states. rand paul said forthrightly it should be. when these rights are in conflict, the federal government has it step in and he did defend that. >> here here is my question how to move past the speech. which is the thing at issue. if there is something to salvage, is creating some kind of more sane drug policy. i think that's the thing that people on different parts of this coalition pant. today there is promising news. there is a statement from dana roar balker of all people. >> i'm saying for our audience, who you may know from some other things, who introduced, today called the respect state marijuana laws that would pro tekts people in states with looser laws from federal prosecution. it has a common sense approach which has all states, marijuana
laws, does so by keeping the federal government out of the business of criminalizing marijuana activity in state that don't want it to be a criminal. i feel like the reform never actually happened. >> there is a left/right coalition. it is just on the other side. >> exactly. >> it is a democrat/republican coalition as tough on crime and really delivered to us by the near liberalism of bill clinton that said okay, what we will do here is pull hard to the right and we are going to crow the federal industrial complex. >> here is what the coalition does exist. it exist among people. the actual human beings, not politicses, not scared, not running for reelection. those people created medical marijuana. created marijuana fre