tv Up w Steve Kornacki MSNBC April 13, 2013 5:00am-7:00am PDT
so...what do men do when a number's too low? turn it up! [ male announcer ] in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. . good morning from new york i'm not chris hayes and i'm also not one of those best of chris hayes reels. instead i'm steve kornacki and you may remember me from such up guest hosting stints like last december 9th or maybe you were sleeping in and missed it. i'm taking over for chris as of today and excited and inti my dade. what chris and face team did with the show was inspiring. i'm relieved my alarm clock worked and the subway didn't break down. i was thinking what i could say to introduce myself.
ate crude home made campaign flyer from when i was in the sixth grade in massachusetts. thanks mom for saving that. from the fall of 1990. our class did a mock election in a played one of the candidates an intellectual with a volcanic temper named john silver. when i look at this stuff now i realize two things the first is wow what a dork i was. the second even though a lot has happened i'm excited today as i was back then to learn about and to understand politics and how they shape our lives. i hope that passion comes through on this show. i hope that along the way we'll have some fun growing, learning and exploring together as well as getting used to the phrase good morning from new york, i'm steve kornacki. former egyptian president
hosni mubarak appeared in a cairo courtroom today for a retrial in the killing of demonstrators during that country's revolution in 2011 and secretary of state john kerry is in china this morning to persuade leaders to pressure north korea to scale back its belligerent rhetoric and returning to talks. right now i'm joined by a political reporter at slate.com and the executive director of new yorkers against gun violence, senior political reporter and politics managing editor at the "huffington post" and a columnist for the guardian newspaper. the senate on thursday overcame a republican filibuster attempt and voted to allow debate on what would be the first major gun control legislation enacted since 1994. there is still, however, a long and difficult road ahead. francine wheeler the mother of 6-year-old who was killed in the newtown massacre underscored that point. >> we have to convince the
senate to come together and pass common sense responsibility reforms that will make our communities safer and prevent more tragedies like the one we never thought would happen to us. >> but even if the legislation make it all the way to president obama's desk final result could be only very minor new regulations, leaving behind the major proposals that obama first offered in the wake of the newtown shooting. in chicago the day before the senate vote first lady michelle obama offered and emotional plea in favor of new gun control measures talking about hadiya pendleton the chicago teenager who was shot and killed in an act of gang violence. >> as i visited with the family at hadiya pendleton's funeral i couldn't get over how familiar they felt to me because what i realized is her family was just like my family.
hadiya pendleton was me. and i was her. >> the day after that the senate voted 6-31 to allow a debate on a package of gun control legislation that does not include the most ambitious gun control items such as a ban on assault weapons, ban on high capacity ammunition clips. they will be offered as amendments and expected to be defeated. what's expected to succeed is a compromise brought by joe manchin and pat toomey to extend mandatory background checks to gun shows and internet sales but not to transfers of guns between private individuals. even then the final bill will still face a filibuster hurdle for passage so it's still unknown whether it will emerge from the senate at all. even if it does emerge from senate it has to go the republican controlled house of representatives where conservative republicans are pressuring john boehner to obey the rule which frowns on
bringing something to a vote. boehner respond listen it was never a rule to begin with and certainly my prerogative my intention is to always pass bills with strong republican support. that leaves us in an uncertain position here. i guess there are two issues to work with. first we'll start with tissue of the legislation itself. let's take for gun control advocates the best possible outcome here, realistic out come which is the assault weapons amendment doesn't succeed, the high capacity amendment doesn't succeed, the gun show loophole would succeed and trafficking would succeed. all the momentum for gun control that's been generated in the wake of newtown if that can get through the senate and house and into law are you satisfied now?
>> not really because the momentum with american public is very much on the side of increasing gun safety laws. the federal laws are woefully inadequate. we know that with 31,000 gun deaths every year, 100,000 injuries. the mass shootings are intentional. like newtown are, you know, small percentage of the people who actually die from guns. suicides 60% of our gun deaths in this country. a lot of people don't realize that. when it comes to the universal background checks bill, i'm amazed -- not surprised but very disappointed. what part of universal background checks do you not understand that you say to these politicians. 91% of the american public thinks we should have background checks on gun sales. guns are lethal weapons. so you can't get, you know, even all the democrats in the senate
to agree that this is a reasonable way forward you have to have a compromise on universal background checks and then forget about assault weapons that's going too far. who needs military style assault weapons in this country? they are designed, they are weapons of war, they are for battle. high capacity magazines who need to blow off 30, 100 rounds unless you plan to do mass murder. >> you raise that issue of public opinion there because that number 90%, 91% whatever the poll s-it's gets thrown around. it's legitimate if you ask that question of anyone you'll get 90%, 91% opinion. there was an op-ed in the "new york times" that tried to explain how it could be that something that polls at 90% doesn't actually have the kind of political momentum we expect and one of the things he found actually was that a lot of people just assumed we already have universal background checks. they hear all the noise in the
gun control debate and it must be about something else. speak a little bit from inside the senate because we have, if you're going -- if democrats will surmount the filibuster against they have to do either in spite of red state democrats bolting on them or winning over reluctant red state democrats, what do you think is going through their minds when they see 90% in the polls and see this legislation. what's the calculation going on there? >> i know the people who are adamant behind the bill are thinking. it is water downed dramatically from what was introduced before. it's not satisfying the liberals. the argument they are making inside their conference and their caucus is, you know, one compared it to gay marriage issue. we had civil unions. you weren't happy with civil unions. i'm speaking as a
hypotheticaling frommive. people got used to it. we got to gay marriage eventually. they want to break the fever metaphor from time to time, the public mood of government and what it might do to your liberties has gotten so paranoid that they need to get over one hurdle and maybe from that point they can see the rest of the hurdles. they can't. at this point anything that even that they worked on like the manchin/toomey bill can be viewed as government overreach. it was said on friday the real issue is stopping this bill and national gun registry. anyone who looks at the federal code knows national gun registration is legal. 15 years in jail if you try to use this register try. maybe it's tough in 2014 but can we keep this up?
can we keep having the gun lobby drag us to the right how far can you go on this? we're now at the point where we can defeat them on something because they are so extreme that you can go back home, go to arkansas, go the meetings and convince people, look what i vote forward. the manchin thing might come with amendments seen as a poison pill. if you have concealed weapons in texas you can use it wherever else you go. if that's in there let it pass. democrats would still be happy. look nra voted on something and we beat them. >> i guess that's one of the, you mentioned the poison pills. that's one of the ways this could be, you know, republicans and nra could defeat this. they for the red state democrats to vote yes and pro gun control people say, you mentioned rep
reprocity. >> one thing is fascinating 40% of nra members actually favor universal background checks. the nra may be over playing its hand here but there's also a risk i think, a little bit like the economic stimulus where things get so watered down people say we tried stimulus it didn't work. they pass something that is symbolic. and ineffective. and then people say that was your gun control. i think the point they make is a good one, though. this has been building for years and so the first shot of it is unlikely to, you know, they are likely to hit it out of the park the first time around. but what we are having now and what i think god forbid there will be another mass shooting which seems to be the only thing that grabs people's attention, eight kids a day are shot by guns in this country but it
takes a lot of people in one moment for the country to concentrate on it that there will be a political conversation as opposed to a let's, hug our kids a bit tighter and pray for the victims. there's a political discussion and that's been started. the base they are starting from speaks to the absence of any political conversation about this in mainstream, in the mainstream political class for way too long. >> we're speaking of this as if hypothetically it gets through and you say even if it gets through it's not that much and we still have talked about the republican controlled house. i want to talk about the challenges there and how we may be jumping the gun and say this may get through and i want to ask you about that right after this. everyone's retirement dream is different;
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watered down gun control actually passing the republican controlled house and i guess, amann darks there's two ways to look at this. one is the fact we're having a conversation about any kind of gun control getting through john boehner's house or getting through the tea party's house that's remarkable in a way, although i guess far from clear anything could get through right now. where do you think things stand over there? >> it is remarkable. the bill will be introduced coming next week. but i think where to look is some of these conservative republicans who represent more suburban districts. "the washington post" had a great piece showing the suburban lawmakers including some senators like pat toomey who have more urban, suburban states they represent like pennsylvania, these lawmakers will be key to watch because they will be feeling more pressure from their constituents who may feel more scared that they will undergo something like newtown, like aurora, the suburban districts that are affected. they are key to watch.
whereas conservative republicans in rural states and rural districts they may be a bit more lost cause including democrats. >> some of the news this week was led by paul brown in georgia, about 45, 47 conservative republicans sent a letter to john boehner and basically said you better obey the haster rule. you need a majority of a majority to put anything on the floor of the house. if the majority of the republicans don't want something john boehner shouldn't do it. it's a dysfunction of washington is a model of getting some legislation through. involves going to the senate first and driving up massive majorities in the senate. we have a graphic. look at the fiscal cliff deal. they went through the senate first and got it 89-8 vote. you had 40 republicans in the senate actually voting for it. so that really isolated the house, forced it home to put it on the floor. when they took to it the house
it passed. 65% of the republicans voting no. but it did get through. i guess the question it seems the logic for boehner he decides there's some issues he has to do, he has to put it on the floor and willing to do it but pays a price when he does that. is this one of the issues he has to put on the floor. >> he said this week we would have something in the house. before we talk about the haster rule we have to talk about the house judiciary committee. the chairman from virginia who is not the suburbanite republican, very conservative, very opposed to most of what we've talked about so far would get a say on this. something that hasn't happened, almost waiting for to it happen is a point where you can have something called a gun control bill or gun safety bill but that has been mutated so much by republicans in both houses, red state democrats in both houses that people bail.
michael bloomberg this week was asked how far the bill got, anything we pass is going to be good for us. at what point -- how many amendments can you add on. how can it still be called a gun bill that's so offense get republicans to pass it and say we did something. i'm surprised nothing has happened yet. we rarely see interest groups on the same page and not threatening to leave if they have something. >> it's interesting that nra members said they were for background checks before they were against them. they are not credible partners in this at all. they are very cynical. they wanted to sink everything. they don't want anything to happen. i believe they are out of touch. they purportedly have this power. i don't think they do. if nothing fails to get through, something fails to get through at all from the senate and the house and i think the american public is going to be very, very disappointed and very angry.
newtown can happen anywhere and we have slow motion mass murder going on every single day in the inner cities and people are fed up. >> what happens to that anger? i mean the nra are very effective at mobilizing their anger into punishing people. and if we compare it to gay marriage or even immigration reform, both of those have mobilizable communities that could for the hand, either you come to jesus or you're going to be voted out. now, we haven't seen it on that scale yet so even though the 19% or 74%, those numbers we're quoting, they describe the breadth of opinion but we have yet to get and this is partly because of the geographical isolation of these murders, large numbers of these murders in chicago where i live happen very, very few districts, very,
very small areas. so we've yet to get depth that would actually say if you don't do this there's going to be trouble. i don't think republicans are any more determined about guns than they were about immigration or gay marriage. this is not one in which has been proved it can be punished. >> you make that point about the geographic isolation of gun laws. it's so strike. the last time there was gun control legislation enacted in the early 1990s. you had the 2000 murders in new york. if you took a poll nationally what's the top issue you were getting the economy/crime. they were right up there. you ask about crime right now it's way down. so you're right. i raise the 1990s because i want to get to that because if you look back to the last gun debate you can look at, it's striking these headlines you can dig up from 19 years ago where people said gun control got through. we won't have to worry about the nra any more.
i love looking at old newspaper headlines to put in context modern debates. in got to go back to may 1994. 19 years ago the set up for this is a few months before this, the brady bill the five day waiting period was enacted. democratic house, democratic senate. in may '94, relatively young democratic congressman from new york chuck schumer pushes through the house a ban on assault weapons. look at these headlines. the nra has been beaten. charles schumer vanquishing the nra with assault weapons ban. there's one about the nra taking it in the gut. this was supposed to be the turning point. temple perror has no clothes moment for the nra. let's fast forward here six months now. this is november 1994. this is the republican resolution. newt gingrich becomes speaker.
it was the nra claiming that they played a disproportionate role in electing the republican congress and getting revenge on the democrats and republicans who voted for gun control and the significance of this is and i think you can look back at the 1994 election and ask did gun control have anything to do with the wave of elected republicans. i'm not sure. the political world, you live this. the political world concluded and the democrats especially concluded that's it we can't be touching this stuff any more. >> yeah, clearly it wasn't the key issue. it was the economy. it was a lot of other things. the people who are the gun enthusiasts, so-called, they are single issue voters and very well organized at the grassroots. the gun safety people which i would count myself, people who are against gun violence haven't organized the same way at the grassroots level. the nra has been very effective and very good at intimidating lawmakers and just the general public as well. one thing about going back in
hicht that i want to point out in the 19th-century, the west, the wild west, a lot of towns and cities in the western united states in the 19th-century had much tougher gun laws than we do today in the 21st century. you had to check your gun at the city limits because they were trying to cut down on gun violence. we have states today where you can bring your gun into a bar, into houses of worship. in west virginia one of the loopholes in the manchin/toomey amendment is you're allowed to put advocates for guns on your bulletin boards and in states like west virginia people advertise their guns for sales in churches. unbelievable. na if you look at states like new york, maryland, connecticut enacting tough gun control laws and a host of states are relaxing their gun laws. gary you written about this. chicago has the toughest gun
laws in the country but gary, indiana it's a different story. >> chicago, jesse jackson pointed this out quite well after hadiya pendleton thing. there's no chicago law that can really work just in chicago. i think 29%, i think that's right, 29% of the guns that were caught in crimes in chicago over a ten year period came from one shop which is just outside of chicago right near where obama used to be a community organizer. and so this has to be -- there has to be some kind of national framework for this. so when the right-wing says look at chicago, you know, look at all the gun violence there. chicago is not an island. and finding something, one of the people i spoke to who was actually having an inauguration whose son was shot in his front garden, she said she was on a plane with a guy from florida
and he use ad gun to shoot an atta alligator. >> this amendment being pushed by nra is scary. states that have looser gun laws you can take those loose gun laws and bring them into a state with strong gun laws like new york, maryland. in some ways i would think bother some conservatives, some states rights people saying new york passed these strong gun laws but we're going to disregard what you pass and say you have to be more like texas. jumping on what we were talking about earlier with the strong grassroots, i think the gun control folks do need to sort of get more of a strong grassroots. but there's another component which is the money side and that's why michael bloomberg getting involved has been important because he has money. he's one person.
it's not probably enough. but there's money combat money on the nra side and he's getting more big money donors interested in making this their issue and going after people on elections who don't vote for gun control. >> that's the possibility. we talk about 1994 and all the lessons that democrats took from that. maybe the flip side i know 2014 sets up structurally a bad year for democrats. but if you have mike bloomberg -- we saw him do in this the special election, a democratic district in illinois, throwing millions of dollars at these races maybe that creates look there's these five suburban republicans that lost, maybe that creates a different -- you see momentum after 2014 for more? >> i was talking about how gun control advocates are not that demanding. you've seen some billionaires who donate, democrats will cut off funds against any candidates that don't support background checks. they haven't answered whether a
democrat, kay hagin votes for the bill and says i got concealed bill reciprocity. we talk about 1994. in 2012, when you hear democrats talk about -- i change that. you talk about election and some do run to the hill tops and talk about 2012. tim kaine had an f rating from nra. barack obama won virginia. he has an f minus minus from nra. most recently when they spend is a lot of money against this we beat them. they are not the same organization that was demanding things in 1994. they don't all believe that. i don't think mark pryor or mark
that's why we designed our newest subaru from the back seat forward. introducing the all-new, completely restyled subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. i know, i know, to talk about the 2016 election in april 2013 is to indulge the most shallow and superficial impulse in journalism. way too early. too many game changers will play out between now and then. there are far more important things going on right now. like i said, i know and i get it. but here's the thing. we're going talk about 2016 on this show and talk about it a lot because the defining features of the campaign that will play out for the whole country three years from now are being negotiated and decided right now as we speak. it's called the invisible
primary but it isn't that invisible any more and well under way. activist, interest groups, fundraiser, party leaders and other stakeholders are jockeying to set terms of the debate on the republican and democratic side. as political scientist jonathan bernstein put it the years leading up to a political race is when parties sort out their differences. this is when an agenda is created. in fact, would be candidates or maybe we should call them candidates are already responding. it was for instance something more than altruism that led hilary and bill clinton to align themselves with the marriage equality clause and that mention of the clintons brings to us the unusual question that hangs over this invisible primary, will there even be a democratic contest in 2016? no doubt you've heard all about hilary's field clearing potential. read a news story about the big anonymous in the democratic party who are interested in the
race, invariably you'll stumble along a line that want goes something like this. strategists who have worked with maryland governor martin o'malley do not believe he will seek the presidency in 2016 if hillary clinton commits to the race. it could have been written about andrew cuomo or the sitting vice president joe biden. now, politicians have all sorts of reasons for running for president. having a real chance of winning isn't always one of them. so there's still a decent chance that someone would ultimately decide it's worth challenging clinton for the nomination. we don't know if that someone or someones can gain any meaningful traction. in a clearfield for hilary a coronation instead of a contest is possible. in an era of presidential politics has featured 14 open nomination contests.
its races where an incumbent president wasn't running. some were more chaotic but every one of those race featured multiple candidates with one exception. with the full weight of bill clinton's white house behind him vice president al gore scared off one of his would be opponents. dip gephardt, john kerry, bill kerry, jesse jackson made noise about running and backed out in face of gore's advantages. bill bradley of new jersey stepped up to run. gore/bradley contest did make history. it was the first and still only race for an open nom makination only one category where one candidate won. hilary enjoys a number of advantages that al gore didn't. if he could intimidate all but one challenger out of the race well then she -- prospect of a
multicandidacy gives power to a party. by ignore or disappointing any one of them a candidate risks losing critical support a rival. every voice gets some kind of a hearing. but hilary supporters working to clear the field there's only one candidate in 2016 and no real race all those voices yearning to shape the presidential election get heard? that's right after this. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. that didn't take very long, did it? this spring, dig in and save. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. dig in and save with miracle-gro potting mix, a special buy at two bags for just $10.
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what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. i want to bring in a former clinton spokesman who is now communications director ready for hilary superpack, an author from "big girls don't cry," the former ceo of a.c.o.r.n., and co-director of progressive advocacy group campaign for america's future. i got to start with you seth. you guys have been acting like
it is april 2015 right here and almost doing a roll out of a clinton camp. we had a former democratic congresswoman who is a hillary clinton supporter. lots of access to the democratic side. you guys are trying to end this thing before it even starts is that right? >> well, you know, steve, first thank you for having me and congratulations on the show. >> thank you. way to butter me up. >> exactly. i think the reason why you're seeing so many leaders come forward and say hilary should be our candidate is because of her strengths and the fact that she has the best credentials, the fact that she's polling so well and can unite the democratic party and the various constituencies and i don't think it should surprise anyone that the democratic party wants to be in a strong position going in 2016 and there's many people who said she's the candidate to do it. >> understand the instinct to want to win.
anybody looks at hilary's numbers and says she has all these advantages. we talked about in the set up for this, the conversation that takes place in the party and the thing that's happening in the news right now, the sitting democratic president barack obama has put this very controversial proposal on the table about changing cpi, means testing for medicare. it's threatening to drive a wedge through the democratic party and i'm asking myself if we're going to have this conversation in the democratic party, don't democrats deserve to know for instance where hilary is on that before they start lining up for that. >> she will have to address those issues if she decides to run. the first thing is let's give hilary some rest. everybody can agree on that. >> you guys aren't doing a good job of giving her some rest. >> actually, one of the purposes that we want to serve is to give her some space to be able to make that decision and to organize across the country and to lay the ground work to iv 16 so that she doesn't have to do
that right now but her supporters are strong in doing that across the country and, you know, she's certainly going to have to answer those questions. first she should get some rest. secondly we believe we have to encourage theory run because it's not 100% that she wants to. nobody knows. anybody that tries to psycho analyze hillary clinton shouldn't. it's not a good idea to do that. but we want her to know that she has an army of supporters behind her should she decide to get in for a second time. those are the conversations and the steps that are taking place first and then, you know, this discussion is a good one. it's a good one for the party. >> you bring up something that i see a line too often in the press this idea of is hilary running or not. she has something which is a machinery that can kick into place in a sense and start raising money and everything and in sense to the work for her before so cities. i happen to be somebody who thinks it's a terrible idea for
hilary to clear the field right now. i wrote a book about the 2008 election and how i came around to be a hilary supporter. but i don't yet know whether it's a good strategic idea for theory run for president. i have no idea whether she herself runs for president. i really believe her when she says that she doesn't know yet. i truly believe this. the other thing is she has this machine that can kick in. and essentially allow her to take a year and a half and to see what happens in the rest of the field before she even makes that call and i think we too often confuse the machine with the individual candidate and say hilary is definitely running and there's an intentionality there that doesn't have to be there for the clinton machine to kick in. >> the same thing happened in new york when she was running for the senate here. it was almost, you know, this is like deja vu all over again, almost the same conversation.
is she or isn't she and how could she? and what i'm interested in is one, on the record, run hilary,00. i don't care about the rest field. that's not your consideration. just as she decided to run for senator here in new york, i think she needs to take that playbook and do the same thing. no rest for hilary. she needs to go out. she needs to figure out because, you know, they made fun of her listening tour when she ran here in new york. well it worked. up needed to do the same thing because i'm concerned about the next presidential folks and how they are going relate to people of color, poor people. >> so you want her to run but are you where seth is where you want her to run and that's it or do you want her to run and martin o'malley -- >> all of those dudes can run. you all are brothers. but i'm with the sister, okay.
>> you're with hilary. >> and that's why i'm encouraging her to run and encouraging her to do some of the same things she did leading up to her run for state senate here in new york. like asking seth the question doesn't she have to weigh in on barack obama's stuff. that's barack obama's stuff. hilary needs to make her own platform. she needs to decide what she's going to run on and how she's going to do it and maybe look at correcting some of the things that have been happening. >> i can just see roger dying to get in here. i know where he wants to go with this. there are so many questions that have to be resolved in the democratic party between now and 2016 about the basic philosophy and roger i want to give you a chance to get into this after this.
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issue, everybody else should they defer to hilary? >> it's absolutely understandable people are enthusiastic about hillry as a candidate. she's a fantastic campaigner. she has the ability to mobilize the new american electorate, young people, hispanics, african-americans, and working class whites as well. and she -- it's understandable because the democratic party is a little bit stuck right now, having won two historic presidential elections, there's still this slog in washington and a stale meat between the ultraright conservatives who are plaguing obama's presidency, preventing him from doing anything, and so the idea that hilary can blast through that and get us beyond this stalemate is very, very -- >> that was the idea behind the obama campaign. >> it got worse. >> that sets us up for
disappointment and anger. and strategically, making this all about hilary right now i think is dangerous for the party because one of the things that pri primaries do is let us meet the future of the party. also the next few years could bring us political stars we can't imagine. if we were sitting here in april of 2005 we wouldn't have see barack obama's convention speech about no blue states or red states. >> it was 2004. >> but the speed which obama became a star in the party we're about to have these fights over immigration, gun, budget that could forge stars out of somebody in congress that we can't predict. as far as hilary goes setting her up so early we've been through 22 years with this woman in the public eye. there's a cycle. "the cycle" is she builds power, we cheer her, they are gains power reresent her, she comes down we love her again. i worry about starting that
cycle. this happened in 2008 before and she became the candidate who everybody was sure was going to clear the field and there was so much resentment built up against her there was an urge to take her down. >> do you think she's in the same position after being secretary of state? isn't she -- >> it's going to be different not just replay of history but we do have these two decades plus and there's an undeniable urge to take hilary down especially when anybody can say she just got this and she's entitled to this. there's all kind of complex things her being in the washington system, being married to bill clinton. what we hate, what people resent hilary for is presumption she can come in and act like it's her turn and if she's chosen this early that resentment will
have three years to bubble up. >> i welcome -- to me i'm very honest and upfront, i hope she runs. if she's having any kind of doubts i get in it. but i also would like to see a good vigorous primary because it makes herbert and sharper and also we would be able to clear up these issues so that there's real distinction about what would your policies be and how do you relate to those. >> i want to show some video here. here's a textbook example of what happens if a race in a party is not settled at this point. i want to play new york governor andrew cuomo and talk about it after this. >> it's just unbelievable that this congress is going to fundamentally fail to act on a societal scourge that the majority of the people in this country support, the majority of
americans want reasonable gun control, gun owners also. in politics we have to be willing to take on the extremists, otherwise we're going to have practice leslie and that's what you're seeing in washington. you're seeing a government paralyzed by the extremists. so, the back story here is the first two years of andrew cuomo's governorship he was the best friend republicans ever had in new york state and basically calibrated his political moves on what the "new york post" sensibility was. then when sandy hook happened this is somebody who is interested in running in 2016 he saw a moment, an opportunity and he acted and enacted one of the toughest gun laws in the country. if hillary clinton were to be coronated that's gone.
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the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com hello from new york i'm steve kornacki here with my panel. seth, i want to pick it back up with you and talk almost sort of mechanically about what you guys are doing right now. it seems like to me i'm looking at this and seeing the names you trotted out. there's a guy that has access to some top donors in the democratic party. he was integral to the super
p.a.c.s in the most recent cycle. james carrville. are you guys -- it seems to me what's going to keep a kind a creditable candidate out of a race it seems like you guys are going top down trying to intimidate people out of the race. >> no. but i did want to make one point and then i certainly will answer your question. i don't think that hilary would be pulled into the race because of party elders or because she's coronated. she's pulled into the race because of her supporters and her supporters telling her we want you to get in, we're behind you. those are the heart and soul of us at readyforhilary.com nine keep mentioning the big names that get rolled out. i remember the early days of campaigns when one primary
candidate keeps the other out by doing these things. what will you do to show grassroot support now. >> we already are. today we'll hit 100,000 facebook followers after having launched last week and we have hundreds of thousands of people coming to readyforhilary.com. when we started off there were skeptics in the media that weren't taking us seriously. we were called a matures, a fan club and we've shown our professionalism,tion there's this grassroots movement across the country. when you see people like harold getting on board because it's a serious grassroots movement, we're a vehicle for hilary supporters to express their support going into 2016. >> i mentioned in the set up for this segment what happened in the run up to 2000. you had a similar scenario in 2000 you'll have in 2016. end of a two term presidency, bill clinton and al gore in 2000 fended off -- he didn't get a
challenge from anybody except bill bradley. this is from 1997. this is the fight that was going on in the democratic party during the clinton presidency. play dick gephardt for a couple of seconds. >> what prevents us from seizing this decisive moment and addressing the great issues, the great challenges that affect us today? our people have not failed. but our politics is failing our people. today the political process has largely become an echo chamber of petty charges, a parade ground for poll driven maneuvers. too often our leaders seem enamored with small ideas that nibble around the edges of the issues. >> this was taken as a rebuke of the clinton administration. roger i think you can speak to
this. you were part of the clinton administration and left in 1993 when clinton pushed nafta through. you like gephardt were against the white house. when it came time for the 2000 campaign gephardt looked up, john kerry looked up and all said there's too much money, too many endorsements on gore's side. >> and gore would have been a much better candidate if he had been exposed to that kind of debate all over the country with serious opposition. he had trouble with especially white male workers in the midwest who thought of nafta as a product of the democratic party. so that whole debate within the democratic party didn't happen. we're in a similar situation right now where, you know, we have a president who is cutting social security benefits in part of a deal he's trying to get. we have a question of whether
the bankers will run the country or not. whether banks are too big to tail. we haven't addressed that. hilary will have to get out there and talk to the democratic base which is mobilizing now around things like jobs, around things like anti-austerity, against the banks and for the people, and she's going to have to find a way to make sure that she's hearing those voices and makes herself, in part, a leader of a movement if she really wants to be a serious candidate. otherwise it's going to be somebody else who comes along and picks up that mantel. >> who knows who the next star is and, again, i make the point. just because i like hilary, i still think i want her to be the best. i want her to use this time because there are things that are going on right now, you know, around banking and corporations and how we're governing this. let's just say she's going to
get attacked from the left, but, you know, it's going to be bloody on the right because they can't wait for hilary to get in. if you think there's gridlock and obstruction with barack obama, you wait and you will see it. they will actually, i think, try to assist in her primary or i think the right would rather scare everybody else away so they can just have at her. >> can you respond to some of the points roger made. earlier you talked about you're for a healthy primary process but you said you're for hilary. when roger lays out these issues that hilary has not spoken to. >> folks myself who are for hilary team up with folks like roger and say, aces, guess what? you need to be talking about this, this, this and this.
you know, just because you're for someone doesn't mean it's just a blanket. you got to be able to challenge them and you got to be able to say here's what you need to be thinking about and here are the things you need to correct. >> so, if she got forced into a competitive primary and in an environment right now i don't know she said you know what i want grand bargain i want to change the cpi, i want more means testing. >> people like me need to say guess what that sucks. don't do it. and she would listen to it. now in any candidate is it going to be perfect and you're going to agree with everything all the time? but the one thing is as a person who likes hilary, i'm just not going around settling for her to be second rate or to, you know, negotiate against all of us right away. >> she has a lot of freedom now. she can go out and engage with the democratic base organizations at her own pace.
i would love to see her get involved in the mid-term elections and get out there and if she's going to run for president it would be nice have a democratic house and she knows how to go out there and campaign for people around these economic issues that, you know, the polls say the voters are with us but the gridlock in washington hasn't been broken yet. >> rebecca, when i hear that, there's been this sort of, people revisited their opinion within the democratic party and outside of the democratic party of hillary clinton, of the clintons since 2008. you can trace her popularity sort of and bill clinton's popularity dipped in the spring of '08 and the minute obama became the nominee and she got out of the race and politics it went up like this and it stayed up there. if she's out in 2010, out now -- >> it's not necessarily about her being in or out of politics. this has to do with a longer history of hilary. the patterns with hilary when she's down -- people tend to respond aggressively to hilary. people love her but her
opponents respond aggressively to her had she's being ambitious, aggressive, moving towards power or when she's threatening. i would argue this is tied up with gender. when she is brought down, this happened also within the clinton white house when she was first lady after the scandal, after lewinsky, people loved hilary. people who hated hilary when she was proposing health care reform, representing these threatening powerful women, with education and jobs and economic and political power they hated her. when she was brought low by a personal scandal they loved her. when she was pushing for this unprecedented historic power running for president and challenging a power system people hated her. as soon as she lost people loved her. same thing happened in the senate. this was all this talk how when she was running for the senate she was going to come in and be a celebrity, a show horse. and there is enormous resistance against her first run. when she got to the senate and worked well others and nice and
not threatening, made deals with people across the aisle, people loved her again. so it's not so much in or out of politics it's whether she's threatening or have recently lost and brought low. >> strom thurman liked her in his final years. >> hillary clinton has bean roller coaster personally and popularity. the difference is now after the presidential campaign americans got to see that she was a team player, she campaigned for president obama, they are joined his team and make secretary of state, put her ego aside for the good of the country and that's the position that she's in today. >> agree. hilary's whole history in the public eye should show people she works well with others. she has two things simultaneously. it's hard to absorb that somebody could have a multifaceted personality.
can work with others. >> it does a lot more to do with gender. >> yes. >> we're not in this post-racial world. no. we certainly aren't in a post-gender world either. i never went in this up and down roller coaster with her so i don't know what that's all about. you either, in my world you either are a hilary hater or hilary supporter or hilary is all right with me. so, for me what i want to see from her, it to see her do what she incident new york. she's got to use this time in order to really listen folks. because we got some bad stuff happening out here. she is going to polarize and i said it in 2008 and i'll say it again. i think this country and what hilary represents is there's
more, in 2008 there was more fear of a black planet than fear of a black plan. >> well, you mentioned hilary haters. i remember them. i have not heard as much from them in the last few years. the question for me if she does get in, gets the nomination, when do republicans remember they are supposed to hate hilary. thank you for joining us. what about the women who aren't named hilary? that's next. how we get there is not. we're americans. we work. we plan. ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. to help you retire your way, with confidence. ♪ that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. let's get to work. ameriprise financial. more within reach.
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it should be kept that way. and that a woman on a national ticket of a political party would be more a handy cap than a strength. so because of these very compelling reasons against my running, i have decided that i shall. so if you're a political history dork like me or an elderly resident of maine you may recognize that woman. she was margaret chase smith. she was the first woman in either major party to have her name placed in nomination for president. that was back in 1964 and smith's candidacy that year was treated a little more than a novelty. cartoon in the bangor "daily news" showed her shopping for running shoes.
a little more galling was this editorial from the "new york times" which referred to her as that attractive lady while deriding her goal of breaking down barriers for women in politics. when she entered the nonbinding primary in new hampshire, she managed 2% of the vote. far behind the winner henry cabot lodge who didn't campaign. barely ahead of herald stasson. for a long time this was about as good as it got. shirley chisholm ran in 1973 but it was a symbolic effort. she never had a real chance of winning. a break through seemed to come in 1984 when walter mondale tapped geraldine ferraro. one woman colorado pat schroeder did run that year but struggled
to raise money and backed out months before the first primary. there was elizabeth dole who didn't make it to gwyneth paltrow starting line in 2000. no one noticed when caroline mosby held a kick-off event in front of one the reporter. then came hillary clinton. her campaign was truly the first viable campaign by a woman and a prelude to an amazing turning point. we all know how formidable hilary will be if she decides to run in 2016. but there are several women, janet napolitano, amy klobuchar and others who are sending signals they are interested in running. elizabeth warren too. with or without hilary there will be at least one woman on the democratic side in 2016.
women are finally making it into the party's presidential pipeline. there's 15 democratic senators today. for the first time ever white men do not make up a majority of the party's caucus in the house. that's the house of course in which the top democrat is a woman. progress has been slower on the gop side where there are four female senators but republicans do have the edge when it comes to female governors. we're not there yet but getting closer to the point when we won't think twice about women, multiple women running for president. that does not however mean there's no glass ceiling any more. turns out it's just moved. we'll tell you where after this.
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so, in that extended tease i just did there we talked about the democratic side in 2016 if hilary doesn't run other women might run that speaks for a trend in the party doesn't have anything to do with gender. if hilary runs i don't think andrew cuomo is running or joe biden is running. i talk about amy klobuchar, janet napolitano. on the republican side we havasu santa martinez, nikki haley. it seems to me we went through a phase where it's a novelty. hillary clinton where there's attention on gender. how far are we from the point where it's a ho-hum. >> certainly on the republican side we are getting much closer. republican women, i can speak from personal experience in the house republican conference get
respect as they should. we are embraced as colleagues. now, of course that's in the context of all of us working together as legislators. the bigger issue as we all know is culturally, you know, where are our constituents. where are the -- where is the nation and where are the states where republicansing might have the strongest proportion of the vote in terms of supporting women and i do feel certainly as a republican woman from the northeast that thanks to the tremendous work that was done biogen rations before me including margaret chase smith, i think that there is -- there are no limits to our horizons in that way. >> i want to go back to that history you told because there's one lens through which we look at and think it's so slow and i can often get myself to look at
history through that lens, it's so slow, after ferraro, unfortunately it's slow. look how quickly that history has built up. margaret chase smyth in 1964, shirley chisholm in 1972. she talked about her own role in running for president. she said al smith running for president paved the way for john kennedy. she said it's my hope that my campaign might pave the way for someone who is not a white man to be president. every time we have a new candidate on either side good or bad is we expand our vision for who cab leader. so the history, it builds. so what seems like this slow slog through history every new figure opens the door for 20 more people. >> for those of us. i congratulate you on your show and you got your own team.
i have to take exception to your characterization of shirley chisholm's run as mainly symbolic. it was deadly serious. >> right. >> deadly serious. and shirley really brought up and was unapologetic saying i'm a woman, female, because again this fear of female power and she was serious and she not only paved the way for other women of color but as you said other kinds of minorities. >> for barack obama. >> for men and for progressives. so, you know, don't ever say -- >> each generation sets the play. >> right. >> there's an african proverb i am because we are, we are because i am. to the extent that generationally this country has decided that women we've been socialized to think women can
only perform certain jobs. think of the medical field, being a surgeon and you think about the physical makeup of women most often with our hands. who would make a better surgeon? >> i'm a surgeon so there you go. >> but women are often steered to, if you're african-american, it was domestic work, hispanic, you know, domestic work. you know, being told that you can only do certain things and that is really true in the realm of politics where women still are seen as a novelty but we're coming to the day -- >> that's right. there's some issues i want to address dealing with both parties here. we'll take them one at a time. i start with the democrats, we talk about the pipeline, when you look at presidential candidates every senator wakes up and historically sees himself as the future president now increasingly it's herself. it's mainly delusional but women have a right to be delusional as men. there's 16 women in the democratic senate. but you look at that and say
there's only four women there. that's a pretty big disparity. what's going wrong with women at your level? >> look the number of republican women in public office keeps increasing overall so i think we have to look at it both the state and federal level. but certainly it's true. and we don't have currently at this moment we don't have as many republican women in the house and senate as we have democratic women and i think that probably there's a cultural event na that contribute to that on the republican side and democratic side. if we do think of republicans as more traditional, if you will in terms of some of those values of heart and home tends to be a place that republican women may historically psychologically embrace more, republican men and women that way there probably is something of a lag time between when democratic women historically as you said, these
are over time. but as republican women we're no sli shrinking violets. >> picked this up when michele bachmann was running. there's lots of reasons why michele bachmann did not win the republican nomination but i had several conservative christian and they are a huge part of today's republican base especially nationally. they told me they had a problem. they had an issue. they knew people who had a problem with a woman who was out there as a leader, not out there as a homemaker running for president. given the role that christian right place in the republican party that's a big hint. >> you know what? i served with women who were devoutly and very dedicated to christian witness if you will
and activism politically and they were highly assertive and they were winning electoral office. so i think yes there's -- i think that's a small element that will be overridden by the general view that christian women as do women of all faiths and creeds have something to offer and in this society each successive generation makes it more normal and natural and acceptable. there's a trail blazer like shirley chisholm. her campaign was serious. but she made herself an image of what black women can do. >> here's where i think what really -- >> it's part of our culture. >> what really makes a difference when they said all politics are local, to me it is more women on the local level whether it's city council,
whether it's state houses because we had a conversation earlier about smith running and how left and liberal she was on social issues as a republican woman even though she was hawkish when it came to war. here's what i want to see, sis. i want to see republican women elected on local level so that we can get together and talk about how to care for this country because i think to me, i have a problem with the boys and the democrats but bigger problem with the boys and the republicans. >> there's some issues with boys on the democratic side and i'll get to those right after this. the trucks are going farther. the 2013 ram 1500 with best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth.
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if you were to look at that map right now at this moment only one state, one geographical tiny state new hampshire has a female democratic governor, four states have female republican governors, two of them are mentioned pretty frequently in 2016. there's a disparity we talk about the senate is an obvious feeder system so are the governorships. what do you think is going on at the state level. you can speak to this from ohio. one female democratic governor in the entire country right now? >> the swing, if you will, we've come a long way but we have a mighty long way to go and that's reflective of lots of people still have an aversion to seeing women in leadership and that cuts across party lines, unfortunately. i want to go back to a point that bertha was making in terms of how symbols do matter and it matters that we see women on city councils, it matters we so women in state legislatures and
suspend our disbelief as a community. we've been socialized a certain way. how we deacon struck or construction to see women work very well in alpha sets of not just politics but any job she chooses. >> one thing that strikes me, i covered politics at the state level in new jersey. new jersey had a bad record when it comes to women advancing through the political ranks. this year for the first time the democrats will field a woman for a major state office. this also happens to be on paper the worthless democratic nomination in a long time in new jersey. she's losing by 40 points to chris christie. i remember something women in new jersey would tell me a lorkts the party -- this is a state with a stratified election. >> the left is really hard on
women. the left is terrible when it comes to women. if you look at that map and history of women in politics one thing you see is many states you think as being the most progressive, up until warren, pennsylvania, new jersey, the states we think of as super blue have rotten histories. >> there are a lot of different theories about why. in part because a lot of red states are states to the west where women have done very well earlier, california. when you moved west there's all kind of theories. when you moved west there was less of a fixed society and fixed of a power structure and women were allowed to come up earlier. women were allowed to vote in states like wyoming and have leadership roles within their community because it wasn't a repetition of a european power structure that was put in place and all male. but what it means is that red
states have better history with women in politics. >> it's a pipeline. seeing the negotiations and knowing culturally and socially that this can happen it must happen and should happen and that's not something strange. >> the other thing too, you talk about like the left, it's harder on women and left is especially hard on women of color. because we won't behave or tow the line. republican women are far more in line with, you know, the party orthodoxy than democrat women who will go off. >> is there an opportunity -- we talk about new jersey still basically a machine state. people think may have shings, political machines as relics. new jersey and other states are very much alive and there's resistance in those machines to women. in new jersey, for instance you had a republican female governor. is there more of an opportunity
for the republican party in states like that to recruit, to field female candidates where they don't necessarily have the machinery built up? >> there may be something to that. you know, it's fascinating to me to think about the role i was listening to nina talk about the cultural change. but what role the social media, the proliferation of outlets and access to media we have now will play in making that transformation to what you might think post-gender. i like to think of post-gender. let's just make sure our ideal can't represents both. >> you did a good job of teasing my next segment.
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so we keep citing the statistic, talk about the pipeline, talk about the senate where there's 20 women, 16 democrats, four republicans. we can talk in senate among those 20 women not one is a african-american or latino. they are all white. two african-americans in the senate right now both appointed by governors or men appointed by governors. look at the governorships right now, martinez from new mexico, nikki haley from south carolina but otherwise that's three other governorships but the other three governorships are held by white women. it seems a particular challenge. nina i see you mentioned as secretary of state. state legislature, statewide office. >> it's challenging, steve. no african-american democrat has won statewide in the state of ohio. why is that?
this is the state that everybody in the nation was waiting on with bated breath in 2008 and 2010 the great state of ohio to bring in the returns for president barack obama. we have a conundrum. it's rooted in how we peel back the layers and get folks to understand and to realize that they need to vote for folks who represent their best interests. we need to have some truth talk because there are double standards for candidates especially women of color. you know i heard a lot last year when i was fighting for voting rights don't be so angry. well you know what? when somebody is trying to steal elections and rig elections and suppress people's votes i'm not going smile just as if somebody was robbing your house you wouldn't greet them with a smile. so we have to make sure we have real dialogue about what it is going to take to get people of color elected statewide and that's about socialization, it's cultural but it is, it goes back to the pipeline as well.
and how parties push and cajole and motivate and uplift -- >> this gets to a topic i've written a lot about. i'm fascinated with you. talk about the pipeline and we have a graph i think we can show. this is the percentage of women in house of representatives who are women of color. the years aren't very clear but it does sort of spike and level off. but the spike takes off. early 1990s. you had the voting rights act had been changed in the 1990s, explosion of majority/minority directs. what i have seen covering politics at the state level all across the country, there tends to be state parties, decision makers who give out nominations stigmatize people, men and women who come from minority/majority districts as not marketable
statewide. >> this is why you got to get out of that party box, okay. and the other thing is when you're -- how do you inform the pipeline? you can't rely on the parties. emily's list made a huge difference with women getting into politics. there's another and i'll give a shout out to some sisters who started an organization called higher heights with grooming, funding candidates, female cane of color and being very specific about it, unapologetic about it. you got to have some training ground. you've got to be able -- people don't just become progressives. you must -- you got to learn how to be progressive and you got to learn how to look at issues. so having now organizations that
are outside of the parties because, now, parties are still controlled by other folks, but having things like highering heights or emily's list, women are doing it for each other. >> did highering heights get involved with mia love at all, what is black women republican running -- >> for the house in utah last year. >> no they did not. however, they are new and they are growing and, again, i'm just putting it out there, we're coming. we're going to sneaking up in the republican party. >> you shouldn't have to sneak. >> we'll bring you back to where you were before. when rand paul went to howard to talk about the republican party and how wonderful they are we're going bring you back to those
days. >> still we need more truth talk about this conundrum. when you suppress or oppress one group it takes from the whole again. i am because we are. and as america has progressed historically we have gotten better but we need to do it faster. you know i'm not even so sure in my lifetime i'm hoping in my lifetime we'll see a woman but will we see another woman. >> hillary clinton supporter and barack obama super get nervous about the conversation where we talk about hilary and finishing the history that they started. we have -- there's at that lot of rhetoric that works around this and we have this vision and both of their candidacies are so exciting. when we talk about she will smash the glass ceiling, one of them. but not the whole thing. when we focus too much just on hillary clinton and barack obama as this match set of history
makers who have righted all our wrongs we lose sight of all the other politicians out there including people in the pipel e pipeline. >> you have just succeed in bringing the show around full circle. perfect. you're good this tv stuff. what do we know now that we didn't know last week? my answers are after this.
so what do we know now that we didn't know last week? we snow massachusetts state representative dan winslow, a republican running for john kerry's senate seat may set a new precedence on same-sex marriage equality. he's asking to allow same-sex couples to make political donations just like married straight couples do because of
legal if they can also donate just as much as their partners do. we know that if granted the request could be lucrative for winslow's campaign. but more than that we know that extending to same-sex couples the right to exploit campaign finance loopholes that heterosexual couples enjoy would be a step towards equality. we know two recent studies commissioned by the nonpartisan name it, change it project supporting women in politics found any mention of a female candidate's appearance, positive, negative or neutral hurts the electoral chances. today we talked about the increasing role of women in the politics and the challenges that lie ahead for them. and finally, as highlighted in a report by "the new york times," we now know that the value of gold dropped 17% since the end of 2011. while it may come as a shock tr
the savvy investors and glenn beck who pushed gold as a hedge against obama, analysts neglect the decline to recovery and serious investors feeling less need to investsome something as seemingly secure as goldgold. so gold's decline is a good sign for the economy, however bad it may be for gold investors. i want to find out what my guests now know that they didn't know last week. >> as bertha and i were just talking about we agree it would be powerful for women across the political spectrum to get together more often in settings not only on tv, although thank you for providing this forum, and allowing us to bring to the floor the common issues that can really unite everyone in the country.
>> this week i know that i am reminded eed that when we talkt breaking barriers and breaking histories. we saw the priama ball ree erib. she died at 88 years old. it reminds you there are gender and racial and sexual barriers to be broken in every vest of our world. >> ron paul goes to howard university is not like nixon goes to china and he should also know he's looking at the african-americans, those african-americans are first and second generations. from african-american parents, caribbean parents and you should also know that the deal for paid sick days here in new york city leaves out almost 500,000 folks, 70% of those, people of color and women, and women. the impact on women.
>> all right. >> well, we are handling death this morning. jonathan winters passed away at the age of 77. our hearts go out to the families and the postal service saturdays will continue, hooray. >> my thanks to former republican congressman from new york. bertha lewis of the black institute and ohio state senator no nina turner. thank you for getting up. thank you for joining us today for my first day as the host of the program i'll have the governor of the 2006 new york democratic ticket. coming up next is melissa harris-perry. after weathering a week of right wing criticism, this morning she doubles down with a show dedicated to the notion that yes, in fact, we are a community. that is melissa harris-perry. check that out coming up next. we'll see you here tomorrow at
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