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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  April 18, 2013 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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>> and we are getting reports that he's seeing national guard on scene and an fbi presence, as well. you mentioned the amount of law enforcement and the different law enforcement agencies there responding to that. i also want to share with our viewers an alert that has come through from m.i.t.'s emergency alert system. this is from about 30 minutes ago where they are still advising those on the campus of m.i.t. to please remain indoors saying that police have not determined that the campus is safe. that sf in response to a shooting on campus. in that case an m.i.t. police officer was reporting to a response of a disturbance when he was shot. authorities say that he was shot multiple times officials are
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saying there are no other victims in that shooting, they are still investigating. no arrests have been made. they are pursuing a suspect there. about 4 1/2 miles away from cambridge, where there was another instance of violence there this evening. at least three explosions and several gun shots. we do not have reports of injuries at watertown. when something like this happens, there is a massive law enforcement response at the time that this violence first started. witnesses reported and we also saw in our own video here that police were responding with weapons drawn and with bulletproof vests. and again, our producer onscene is reporting he is now seeing the national guard and the fbi onscene there in watertown, massachusetts.
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kerry sanders is also on the scene there and speaking with witnesses there this evening. if you could set the scene as to what's happening right now. we're looking at taped replay from the climax of this activity. if you can tell us what's happening right now. >> reporter: well, let me step away from the police line to get back in view. we're in the business district. traffic lights and, of course, often this is now police officers and police cars. but the number of police officers and cars that were here has changed considerably. most of the officers who responded in an incredibly high rate of speed from m.i.t. over to here have left the area. now, the distance from where the shots were initially fired at an m.i.t. police officer and to this location, it's about 4 1/2 miles.
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would be a normally 15-minute drive with the traffic and traffic lights. of course, the police officers responded here in excess of 100 miles an hour. and as they were heading over here and chasing somebody, two suspects, we believe, witnesses say they heard boom and then another boom. and then they heard countless shots fired. so many that they lost count. and then another boom. and so some of those in the area were trying to figure out exactly what it was. but they knew those booms were not gunfire, but they were specifically loud booms that sounded like bombs to them. the officers then closed in on the area, we were listening to discussions on the scanner, the fire department, the police department saying that the second suspect is not in custody. suggesting that maybe the first suspect had been in custody. and then the officers began to
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ask everybody in the area to just hold their positions as they were moving forward. then things calmed down. the ambulances that were here started to depart. didn't see anybody in the back of any ambulance and also did not appear with the speed that they were leaving that there was any rush to get anybody out. i looked in the back window of one, it was empty, i didn't see it in the back of the other one. the ambulances left, the police officers left, then they decided to move the public back. so the majority of the police officers have pulled back and now the remaining police officers are pushing the public back first half block, then another block, then all the way down too if you're familiar with watertown in front of the 7-eleven across the street from the dunkin donuts where they've closed this area off. since then, we have seen enter into what is now the crime scene, a crime scene vehicle, a s.w.a.t. vehicle, and a special operations vehicle from the boston police department.
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holding this area here are the local police, at least one member of the national guard. and they do not have their weapons out. in fact, the national guard has put away his rifle. occasionally you can probably hear in the background there's still some sirens that are blasting. there's a fair number of residents who have gathered out here trying to sort of assess what's going on, curiosity. and, of course, everybody has the same question which we can't answer right now, is there a connection between the bombings at the marathon and the shooting at m.i.t. which led to the death of an officer and the chase here that was followed by booms and gunfire? so those are the pieces of the puzzle that are yet to be put together. mara? >> yes? kerry? are you there? >> i wanted to make sure we're
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still together. i had a call coming in and i was checking to see if it was perhaps somebody from the boston police department. >> no, i can still hear you. and this is nbc news' kerry sanders on the phone. you're hearing kerry's live reporting on the scene in watertown, massachusetts, and what you are seeing is the live video coverage from our boston affiliate whdh, i want to take a moment to listen into their coverage. again, this is our affiliate in boston. let's take a listen to their ongoing coverage. >> i can't confirm that. i'm just observing and telling you what i'm seeing here. whether this is for what happened at m.i.t. or shell or mobile or all of the above, i don't know. but there's an active search from air clearly going on right now. as back here on the ground, the crime scene gets bigger and more and more officers are being brought in, special operations from different towns are being brought in. so clearly it is still unfolding
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before us. and we are in a safer location now, thankfully, but what a wild night out here for the people who live in these homes. as you can see behind these businesses, it is a residential area. chris lambert who lives not far from here heard bang, bang, bang and happened to turn on the tv and see our reporting and heard more. scary night for the people out here and the police too. in this -- in our business, we do a lot of work with police, sometimes we go on ride alongs with police officers and we experience some pretty crazy stuff. i'll tell you what, though, never have i experienced something like this and never have i seen police. they act with such bravery and you've got to give them all the credit in the world, but never have i seen police so frantic and disorderly at a time. and that's certainly not -- that's not critical of them at all. i praise what they did and they did what they could to keep us
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safe. but never have i witnessed such an intense another police officer coming into the scene here. >> adam, you mentioned the bravery of the police officers, let's not forget what jump started this whole thing. this was a fatal shooting of the police officer on the campus of m.i.t. an m.i.t. police officer fatally shot and killed earlier tonight just under four hours ago, investigating a disturbance, and we do now know that if this law enforcement source is correct, we do know that disturbance he was investigate iing was the tw men. >> we are continuing to cover breaking news out of massachusetts. we have two separate cases that we're keeping track of. one is of violence in watertown, massachusetts, there were reports earlier this evening, witnesses reporting three separate explosions and a number of gun shots that happened just
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a few hours after a shooting in cambridge, massachusetts. which is about 4 1/2 hours away where an m.i.t. campus police officer was fatally shot after responding to reports of a disappearance. i want to go to nbc news' kerry sanders. kerry has been joining us on the phone all evening long. we should be able to see him. and i know you've been wanting to show us the scene. if you could show us what's going on. looks like you have a gentleman you'd like to speak with, as well. >> reporter: yeah, one of the reporters from wvit out of connecticut. but first, let me set the scene for you. this is the business district. and you can see the flashing lights are. that is the backside of where this took place. that's where it sort of was that we were allowed access to until it sort of seemingly came to an end. and then the officers pushed us
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back and brought us back to a safe distance here. when i say safe distance, there's no indication there's any threat underway. my colleague is here. tell me what -- you got here a little bit earlier than i did. i was finishing a report, first of all. finishing a report over at m.i.t. and while i was doing my report with an ear piece in like this, talking about the officer who had been shot, i didn't hear anything. but you didn't have an ear piece in. and you and your camera man did hear something. >> i was by the truck and it was my photographer who came running to me, dave mulligan, did you hear that? and it was right about five minutes after we saw, i'd say a dozen, maybe more state police going as fast as they could away from that scene. a few other reporters saying, did you hear that? they said three loud booms, i myself did not hear those booms,
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it was my photographer that heard that. we said, okay, let's go see what it is. we, at that point, started going to an address. as a reporter, our station who has been listening to the scanner has been feeding us stuff and gave us an address on memorial drive in memorial street in cambridge. we tried going to there. we got about a mile up the road and started seeing police going 100 miles an hour. i believe it was -- i'm not sure of what the road was. >> starrow drive. >> yeah, and we ended up going as fast as we could, the speed limit, but we started following them. saw two or three cars pass us, state police cars mostly. and then we saw about ten come right by us at one point. and we pulled over on the side of the road. and before you knew it, there were 50 or 60 state police cars going past us, then they were coming around the other way. and more coming and more coming and they were going in every single direction they could in
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that area. at that point, we were outside the car, tweeting things, tweeting pictures, video. heard a distinct two or three pops. pop, pop, pop. a few witnesses on the street, as well. we said those are gun shots. >> tell me where you are. at this point, still in your vehicle? >> no, at that point, outside the vehicle. >> and you've made it here to watertown? >> probably a two, three minute ride at that point. we got down the road, maybe four or five blocks to lloyd. i don't want to exaggerate, 150 police cars in that area backed up as far as you possibly could. witnesses were starting to tell us they heard a gun battle that they heard loud explosions in a gun battle. one guide said between 20 and 50 gun shots. he couldn't tell. another witness said he heard two explosions for sure and saw a loud -- a bright light in the sky. he said he then heard gun shots. they could not say whether or
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not it was assault weapons or what kind of shots they were. they just said it was rapid fire. >> let's stop for a moment here and consider for our listeners here that the rapid fire, 100 plus officers here, pursuing what we believe may be two suspects, there have been loud explosions. so the gunfire is not just one way. this may be police officers. there's many police officers the s.w.a.t. team as well as the officers, as well as the fbi that is here and the national guard that are here. you have a variety of people. the bullets are flying, we're not sure if there are any coming back. >> we don't know how many people were shooting and how many directions. all we saw were cars flying in every single direction. they were stopped, backed up all the way up the street. as you said, we saw watertown police, cambridge police and we were able to confirm we saw unmarked cars and heard in the
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time since the fbi is on the scene, as well. >> and then we saw the boston fire department set up a staging area not too far from here because they came into the area. really, everybody involved in dealing with the aftermath of the bombing on patriots day at the marathon appears to be a part of what's going on here. the question we all have and the one we don't have the answer to is whether there's a direct line of connection between the bombing at the boston marathon, the shooting that led to the death of an officer at m.i.t. and then the chase to what we believe are two suspects here. what we can say is based on what we observed and that is when the ambulances left here, it did not appear they were leaving with anybody who had been hit, anybody who had been hurt. anybody who needed immediate medical attention. it's important to note. when we talk about the number of shots that were fired there, it is not just the likelihood of a suspect who may have been shot, but, of course, the friendly
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fire. there's no indications of what we've seen that any officers were hurt or wounded or injured in that -- i guess we can describe as a gun battle at this point. >> we did see about three minutes into the time we were here. it was an ambulance, maybe a little bit longer, ten minutes after the time we were here. they started running down mt. auburn street away from us. that was the only ambulance we saw at the time. it was very frantic when the emts got out. but that was the only ambulance we saw in the time we were here and only one stretcher we saw them bringing. >> and we never saw that stretcher come back. >> never saw it coming back, no. but we also have been moved back periodically. so it maybe was 20 minutes, 25 minutes between the time we were moved, but, no, i did not see that come back. we have not seen that ambulance leaving. >> let me take you back to m.i.t. if it was all connected.
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was shot multiple times and died. for whatever strange reason, as i entered that area, i came in through a side entrance looking for where i could see what was going on and put me beyond the yellow police line. and it was interesting to note that the number of police officers there, most of them who then made their way over here were very relaxed and calm. it suggested to me that if there were a suspect either that suspect they assumed was long gone -- >> well, kerry, if i could jump in. >> if they knew the threat at that location was gone. >> i want to jump in because we do have information about the suspect on the campus at m.i.t. this is a news alert for m.i.t.'s information at 1:56 a.m. saying that m.i.t. police have determined the suspect is no longer on campus, safe to resume normal activities. please remain vigilant in the
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coming hours. we can only assume that no arrests have been made and the investigation in that case is ongoing. now, kerry, you touched upon the question that everyone has which is either of these cases related to the search of the bombing suspects in the marathon? you've been in boston all week covering the aftermath and the investigation, can you bring us up to speed ton the latest there? there was a big development yesterday when police released photos of men they think are responsible. >> reporter: yeah. those photos taken from the security cameras are critical. the fbi released those photos, were very specific to say, please look at these pictures and no other pictures. and if you think you know who those people are or have a suggestion of who those people are, please contact us. those pictures were not just in boston. no matter where you were in the country or in the world, you've likely seen those pictures right
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now because they went out. so the fbi started receiving text messages, phone calls, twitters and e-mails and so it's an overwhelming amount of information, but it's also the information that's colated and is helping the fbi narrow down the possibility of who those people are. they're not the best pictures. they're a little bit blurry, but they are suggestions. and if it were a picture of someone you knew very well, would you know who that person is? perhaps you would and perhaps you would be the one calling the fbi and giving them that information. that investigation based on official statements thus far is still ongoing. there's nothing new to report as i stand here at this hour. that those suspects are anything more than two suspects they're looking for. they have not said they know who they are. but they have put that information out.
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so that part of the investigation continues. you obviously have the wounded, i think it's 56 are still in hospitals, six still in critical condition. you have the service that the president came to boston to on thursday held here. watched in person by more than 1,000 and outside the church and on television by much of new england as well as most of the nation. and really a heart felt moment where a community was very much united and brought together and i -- i would say from those that i spoke to, it was a very important moment, i think, for people to in their hearts realize that as a community, things are okay. >> and, kerry, if you and george could just -- >> may be a little unsettled. >> i want to go to whdh's
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coverage. looks like they may have some new information on a suspect possibly be shot and perhaps taken into custody. let's listen into their coverage. >> this has to be the one suspect who was shot by police. >> definitely makes sense. >> they said they were looking for one more person in addition to the one they had arrested. i agree, the one who was likely driving the carjacked vehicle, black mercedes, i mean the person owned the car reported it carjacked. and looks like they caught up with the guy in watertown. still very active scene as they search for a second person. i don't know what these guys -- >> i don't know if it's somewhere else. >> well, sent to us by brian -- >> no, i'm saying the suspect is he still in watertown? has he run to -- has he gotten into another car? has there been another report of a car jacking in the area? >> well, they'd been spending a
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lot of time around the red line and charles river. then they got this report of this car jacking. started following that vehicle. but was this vehicle involved? two armed robberies since the sh shooting of the police officer? it's all speculation at this point. but we do know they're still searching for one more person and we know there's a lot of people searching for that person. you know, they obviously have some kind of weapon or something, the police are definitely -- >> heavily armed. steve was saying they were heavily armed. considered heavily armed. >> right, right. >> whether that's armed with guns or guns and explosives, if there was a controlled explosive that would lead you to believe that there was some sort of explosive or what police thought was an explosive on the person or persons in their car. so, you know, this is -- and we know that explosives were used
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the other day. and again, we're not trying to connect the dots here that this is related to monday's bombing. the only thing we know according to the source is that everything happening tonight, cambridge and m.i.t. and now in watertown, that does seem to be connected. that there was this armed robbery at 10:00, have a 7-eleven in central square, then an m.i.t. police officer investigating a disturbance on campus was shot and killed. few minutes later, a black mercedes, a dark-colored mercedes was hijacked, car-jacked. watertown police a few minutes later after that picked up this mercedes. one of suspects was shot and one they are still looking for at this hour. and when adam williams was on the scene there in watertown, they got spectacular video of the search, of the armed search, the police officers with their guns draw. and someone laying on the ground
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and we do not know if the person was connected. perhaps the person was in the wrong place at the wrong time. we don't know if that person is connected to anything that happened tonight. >> and the interesting thing is, if we have this person apprehended, looking for one more would lead you to believe that guy does not have anything to do with what's happening tonight. >> maybe wrong place at the wrong time. >> of course, one thing, another event we had tonight, there were two gas stations robbed, a mobile and a shell. >> well, i think original said that, but i think when steve came on to tell about the 7-eleven. >> let's check with adam. hey, adam. >> reporter: yeah. >> was that mercedes involved, do we know? in the armed robberies? and we learned from steve there was an armed robbery at the 7-eleven in central square and you mentioned some gas station robberies you believe were connected to the situation and brought you to watertown.
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>> reporter: you're correct on the order of the crimes. the 7-eleven, then the m.i.t. officer and then over at m.i.t., we heard of a double gas station robbery at a shell gas station and a mobile gas station. it was while we were there that a real sense of sense of urgency kicked in. and there were reports of shots fired. police, they got out here as quickly as they could. we kind of got in the mix with police and got up here. as we put the pieces of the puzzle together, are these connected? it's not confirmed. or is this a strange coincidence that a string of crimes would happen in the same area around at the same time? i guess all of this will be coming out officially at some point.
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for the viewers at home watching, how we gather news, we hear something, people call us and give us tips or we hear information on police scanners. let's watch some of the activity over here. still continuing to cordon off some of the area. this is the armored vehicle that came in earlier with police officers heavily armed police officers on either -- that's actually the cape cod s.w.a.t. up here. on either side, they are releasing some of the vehicles. maybe not releasing, maybe just staging down here. and my apologies for getting lost in my train of thought here as i try to describe a few things at once. l i guess what strikes me tonight, typically i was saying the way we gather news is we get reports of something, we go out, follow up, and take pictures and ask questions. usually not long after that, we're in touch with police with police supervisors or public information officers as they're known. we haven't gotten any of that yet, which tells me this is
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still very active, very ongoing. you know, and that brings us to a higher level of importance and security, i suppose, than most crimes where we do get more response and information in a faster way. i also know it's 2:30 in the morning and that makes a bit of a difference. but based on what we've seen out here today, the growing crime scene, the helicopter still in the area with the spotlight on based on the fact that they're still looking for one person who sure seems to be capable of causing a lot of damage and harming a lot of people, it's tense out here and they've got all hands on deck. as many as they can to try to figure this out. and i know that some of the things we've been talking about on air tonight are some of the things that come to any ordinary person's mind and that is this isn't boston. this is some crazy stuff happening in one week. is it all connected?
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it's way too early to draw any sort of conclusions or assumptions right now. but it is ironic, coincidental and, i guess, in the hours to come, we hope, or you know, sooner rather than later, we get more information about whether there are any connections here. but a tragic, tragic, evening, early morning. first and foremost, the murder of an m.i.t. cop and the subsequent cops that happened around it and then the gunfire the reports of explosive device here. i'm just speaking on behalf of every single one of our viewers at home. those of you watching saying, this is crazy, isn't it? >> adam, is there any -- do you get a sense that possibly the suspect -- the person they're looking for right now, there's one in custody, they are still looking for the second one.
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because they pushed everyone back. we have no idea if this person is connected to anything. >> like you said, could be the wrong person, wrong place. >> wrong place, at the wrong time. we don't know. >> you're watching live coverage of a developing breaking news story out of watertown, massachusetts. that's our boston affiliate whdh. and i want to bring in kerry sanders. i have some information for you from the "new york times." i want to summarize their account of what happened this evening. they're quoting a source that said there were two young men who began shooting at dozens of police officers from behind that black mercedes suv and as they were shooting at them, they then lit a bomb and threw it at the officers where it exploded. that one of the gentlemen ran toward the officers, he was tackled, they don't know if he was shot or injured in any way and the other one drove off and sped away. our affiliate whdh also is
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reporting that one suspect is in custody and police are looking for a second suspect. show knowing all of this now, does this help you piece together any of what you've seen this evening? >> reporter: you know, i think what we can do is we're fortunate to have a witness here michael mcgee. and he lives a block over, he heard this, hopped on his bike and decided to come see. let's see at what point you picked it up. did you ever see a black mercedes? >> no, i did not. >> okay. at what point you came out on your bike, what did you see? >> i was riding home and got to my house and heard a lot of commotion. >> you heard the police sirens? >> a lot of tire squealing, shots being -- fired or exchanged. then i heard an explosion or another explosion, i was close enough to smell the explosions. i heard three. definitely heard three at least. >> did you ever see what we
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would call a suspect? >> not at all. >> and you kept -- you're going close because you're curious, but still a little distance away? >> uh-huh. >> not exactly sure there was a an exchange. i could didn't determine if it was coming and going or just going. >> it sounded like the space between the shots sounded like more than one gun going off and it sounded to me like a fire fight. but i have no idea. >> of course. it's very hard to know. there's that many officers there. it's unclear whether it's back and forth or one direction. >> true. true. >> so you see this, you smell this. you're not hitting the ground, you're just standing there curious. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, after this week, i think everybody's nerves are shot. i didn't even think about hitting the deck or anything
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like that. >> thank you, michael. now, we have an opportunity here as michael steps out of the way there for dave mcgee to join me here. and he's a camera man from wvit. and he had an opportunity to roll up. and sort of get his camera out and take it in. first of all, you're heading over because we were all standing over there at m.i.t. and to recap over at m.i.t., a police officer responding to a disturbance was shot and died. we were there. a good 50, 60 police officers and vehicles all over the place. lights going and as we're doing our reports, i have my ear piece in, i didn't hear this but you did hear something. tell me what you heard and thought? >> i was trying to grab some roll there for the story. and i heard three booms, loud, but subtle. and that's when the police cars started driving out of there fast. three or four at once and a minute or two later, more and
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more and more. >> you hopped in your car? >> yeah, we decided to see what was going on. >> those officers were pulling out of there, squealing tires, i was there. one left, two left, 12 left. they were really peeling out. leaving there at a good 50, 60 miles an hour at that street. and your colleague they were up to 100 miles an hour making their way up here. >> that's right. at one point we didn't know where we were and stopped where they were going by. dozens at that point. we went by, turned and went behind them, and let another dozen or so emergency vehicles keep going. we kept going about a block or so at a time and had to keep pulling over to let the police officers behind us let go by. took the camera out to get video of them and they kept going and going and three or four minutes of cars driving by as fast as they could up to this direction here. >> what i'm going to do is have you step back a little bit.
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kevin's going to get a chance to take our viewers down the street there. because that's where we all where. we were down at that location. and you can see that there are now just a few officers there. but earlier there were easily more than 100 officers and cars. you're up there, and what do you see? and we heard michael say he could smell the bombs. i think you got here later, but what did you see and smell? >> well, up until that point, the police cars kept coming in behind us and at one point the entire street was full of police cars. they were getting their assault weapons out, running up the street, yelling at everyone to get back. we kept hearing more noises, more booms, more shots, we're not sure what they were. at that point, all you could smell was the burning rubber and transmissions from the cars because they'd been driving up here as fast as they could. they said they still had somebody out there they were looking for and heard what sounded like another explosion and we're probably about maybe
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three blocks away at that point. >> i now joined you at this point. officers are trying to control the area, there's somebody they fear is still a threat. they've got a lot of reporters f camera men, civilians curious. they've heard the sounds and then it appears after ten minutes, it's hard to keep track of time in a compressed situation like this, things sort of calm down and quickly decompressed and we started to see officers come back to their vehicles, pushing reporters back, residents back, camera men back. we saw the cars leaving, ambulances pull out, didn't see anybody in there. another one left, didn't rush out of here. wasn't able to look in the back of that one. the officers then began to put their weapons away. also suggesting the threat was
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over. and then we've seen sort of an orderly back and forth here of different state, local, and what i'm going to guess are federal authorities coming because those were unmarked cars. we saw the bomb unit come in, and bomb unit leave. we saw the vehicle come in. now i'm guessing way up the way there, mara, we have a crime scene that's going to be a crime scene for some time. especially if there's a connection between this, what happened at m.i.t. today and if that leads back to what happened at the boston marathon. >> okay. nbc news' kerry sanders live in watertown giving us the very latest on what happened there this evening. i want to take a moment now to bring in former fbi profiler and nbc news analyst clint vanzant. i want to ask you about this incident in watertown first. we just heard what happened that
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we saw at least 100 law enforcement officers responding. and we know that over the course of the evening that they were from several different branches of law enforcement. that there was the fbi, there was local police and even the national guards we're seeing military there. what can we deduce. >> reporter: well, we're obviously waiting for confirmation from the fbi as to what they have. but as you've reported at about 11:00 p.m. last night, we know that a confrontation took place on the m.i.t. campus that an m.i.t. officer was shot multiple times and killed. some suggest it may have been a robbery. we know there have been multiple chases, either foot chases or car chases. we know that shots have been exchanged between subjects and police officers and no more in a
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situation like this especially following the bombing in boston in these areas normally we see crime go down. because of the heavy police presence and other things that are going on. so this just statistically, this would be unusual were it not to be related. i think as you're showing on -- as showing on different networks, there's a heavy -- not only a heavy police presence, but a heavy s.w.a.t. presence. we've heard reports of multiple explosions. it could be gun shots, it could be diversionary devices that are used to get somebody out of a vehicle. or a diversionary device you would use to tactically enter a house to go in and deal with someone. it could be explosive devices
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that are being blown up right on the spot where they're at to try to make them safe. we have reports of a car jacking. reports that at least one subject, a subject is in custody. and if that car jacking continues, obviously, that means that a second subject is still in a vehicle. now, this could be consistent with the bombing and the investigation we know, obviously, that the fbi released pictures of at least two individuals yesterday. two individuals, they were looking for. then literally hundreds and hundreds of tips have come in. it could be consistent. we don't know, number one, if this is related. but were it to be related, the ld be consistent the actions of the individuals who we believe to be involved in this. >> well, clint, you've touched upon the question at the top of everyone's mind in the wake of these bombings earlier this week
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at the boston marathon. and, of course, we want to be careful not to speculate because we're learning about all of these different things. we have the cambridge shooting. you often pick up on things that the rest of us that without a law enforcement background would completely miss because of your experience and background. is there anything here that suggests to you this could be related to the ongoing investigation into the bombings? >> well, it does. it does. in that the heavy police presence in the entire massachusetts area, especially in and around boston and other communities like watertown, you could expect that tips would be coming in. and law enforcement would be working on those chips 24/7 trying to find these two subjects. it could also be consistent that the two suspects either lived in
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the area or the term law enforcement would use would be hunkered down. they stayed hoping they could get past any police attempts to locate them. if anybody in the massachusetts area recognized the photographs, i'm sure they would have called police. what would've followed was some type of activity to find them. now, at the same time, you would have the two suspects perhaps if this was related to them trying to get out of that area and one of the ways they would do it would be to try to use a vehicle that was related to them. and a car whose license plate or description was not known that they could use -- leave the area. that could relate to the attempt to steal a car, the confrontation with the officer and a number of things. while this could be totally unrelated, there are many
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aspects that would suggest it's likely related to the two subjects and we have to wait to hear from the fbi. a police officer has been killed, two individuals were seen attempting to break into cars. that one car has been car-jacked, stolen, and that a tremendous investigation continues. >> clint, i want to ask you to stay on the line if you would with us. right now, we have on the phone andrew, who is an eyewitness. gave his account to the "new york times." we have him on the line now. in terms of the accounts we've heard this evening, yours is by far the most exhaustive. sounds like a front-row seat to everything that was happening. describe what you saw this evening. >> yeah, i was just sitting in the living room and started hearing gunfire outside our apartment. i went to the window and saw two
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men behind a black mercedes suv with the second sedan right next to it. and it was two shooters firing down on our street, which is laurel street and behind the black suv shooting about 70, 80 yards down the street westward. towards what looked to be at least six watertown police department vehicles. they engaged in gunfire for a few minutes. and while they were in gunfire, they were utilizing bombs which sounded and looked like grenades while continuing the gunfight. they also had what looked to be a pressure cooker bomb. and i -- i had about a clear line of view on that from about 30 to 40 feet away from my bedroom window. >> andrew, if you could just --
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can you expand upon that? you said looked like a pressure cooker bomb. we've all seen the photos of the bombs believed to be used. is that how you know what it looks like? and is it consistent with what you've seen? >> yes, it is, i've seen the photos from the marathon. and so i am familiar with what it looks like and i had a very clear view of the shooters and that is what it looked like to me. >> sk o, we want to be very careful here to not be overzealous in connecting the doubts. this could be an unrelated incident of urban crime. but i do want to ask, officials released these photos of the two men they believed were involved in the bombing. you said there were two men and you had a clear lineal of sight. did it seem like they looked like they could be the same person? visually, were through in similarities? >> visually, i really couldn't see -- i couldn't see their faces. they didn't have any distinct clothing on.
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so i really couldn't make out their descriptions in any way. in terms of build, i could -- i had a clear view of their build and average size, average height. >> and andrew, you posted some photos on twitter of what you were seeing. can you describe what you took photos of? we see a bullet hole. was this in your home? >> yes, that is in our home. we occupy the second and third floor. of a multi-family home. and there were bullet holes on the west wall that went through the wall and through my roommate's chair. >> and -- >> there was one bullet hole. >> were police returning fire? was this a fire fight? did it seem they were taking cover while being shot at? >> no, it was a fire fight. there was a long exchange of gunfire.
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>> you say they had these bombs with them. you describe them as grenades and there was at least one you say looked like could have been a pressure cooker bomb. did they have -- how were they carrying all of this and shooting at the same time? did they have bags with them? what were the logistics like? >> yeah, so -- their sedan was easterly on laurel street and then their suv was to the west. and they were separated by about 10 feet. they were in between the two cars taking cover behind the mercedes shooting westward. and they had backpacks. right now there are still -- actually, as we speak there is the bomb squad robot going into the green vehicle. and then they still have what looks -- two or three backpacks that were right next to the suv that are still laying in the street and they have been untouched. >> you're saying there's a bomb robot on the scene. can you tell me more about that
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and what's happening with that. i assume they're trying to ascertain if there's more explosives in the car. >> yes. that would be my assumption. they're going through the back passenger door right now and the robot is examining the backseat. >> and in your account to the "new york times," you say that one of the men was tackled by officers and the other sped away. how did this end? >> yeah, so, when they utilized their larger bomb, that actually created -- they threw it towards the officers. it didn't get too close to them but really worked more as a decoy and basically cover the entire street with smoke. and one of the shooters ran towards the officers while the other one after a few seconds got back into the suv. and at that time, the one who
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was running towards the officer was taken down. i really couldn't see if he was tackled or shot. but as he went down, the second shooter got into the suv, turned it around and went full speed into the police officer's cars and basically went right through the middle in between two or three cops' cars taking out doors. and ultimately broke through. >> andrew, i want to keep you on the line if i may and go quickly to clint van zandt with this new information. i'm sorry, we're going to go to jonathan deans first wnbc's jonathan deans. this really sounds quite unbelievable. >> it does. and we can tell you that if fbi
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and federal law enforcement officials are looking into whether this is connected to the boston marathon bombing. what we are being told is that one suspect has been shot. that according to one law enforcement source. and that the fbi is now responding to the multiple crime scenes that took place out there that we've seen the massive local response with some federal presence. we are told we are going to see a much larger federal presence as they ramp up and respond as they now look into whether this is, in fact, connected or whether it's not connected to the atlanta bombing. and that there is one man who we've seen the video of him lying on the street. i am not sure if that is the suspect who was shot according to the source, but, again, as to whether it is connected to the bombing of the marathon, this source, says, quote, it's undetermined at this time. and they're working hard now to
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determine if the connection can be confirmed. the suspect lying in the street. and we throughout the evening have been reporting about the car chase, the police officer shot and killed, the reports of shots and explosives that -- and popping noises that the eyewitness is talking about. so, again, this may be -- this may be a key break or could lead to a key break in the marathon bombing, but it is way too soon to know as fbi and local police work to see if there is any sort of formal confirmation and that would come in terms of making an identification of the suspect who they have in custody who we are told was shot during the confrontation and dispute with police. and we are told dozens and dozens of federal agents have
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been disbatpatched. and there are some leaders in the law enforcement community being rallied to get in to make these determinations because when this first started with the police officer being shot as a precaution, agents were dispatched to the scene to monitor because they're covering any possible lead and then as we saw, the series of events seemed to spiral into chaotic series of events with shootings and car chases and explosions. reports of explosions perhaps some sort of grenades or mini popping devices. the fbi putting out photos, new photos of the suspects they're looking for. it would be interesting to see now they have the suspect in custody on the ground there and apparently shot whether he matches the photos and the
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description of those who carried out the bombing or whether as you were saying, this is a totally unrelated chaotic crime situation. there were some media reports there is a connection now being made. we do not have that. we're looking into it and no definite conclusion just yet, but it is something they are looking into and treating quite seriously as you can see by the enormous local response and now the large federal response that is coming in amid this wild chase and shooting that took place at m.i.t. and nearby watertown. >> and jonathan, we've been hearing reports that they are looking for a second suspect. that eyewitness said he saw one of the suspects get in the car, drive through police and keep going. do you know anything about a second suspect getting away? >> that's the information explained to us that, yes, there was a car chase or that a car did speed away.
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i believe it was a black mercedes surrounded with the shots fired in and around and how the suspect got away, it's unclear to me. but we're awaiting further updates from local and federal officials as to the status of that second possible suspect involved in this shooting and whether any sort of explosives were used during this hunt for these suspects who were believed at first to be responsible for the sooting and killing of a campus police officer. and now with the arms and weapons that were apparently used in the shootout, the questions are now whether they are connected to the bombing and we do not have a definite answer yet. there is some suspicion, but we're going to wait for official word from the jit department fbi
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officials as to whether or not there is a direct connection here. >> or the. thanks so much for that. we'll continue to check in with you on any new information you can bring us. i want to bring in clint van zandt, former fbi profiler and nbc analyst who joins us on the phone. i don't knf we've covered sin i la these certain notound likede variety crinals. we wan not jump to conclusions without the evidence that suput the eyewitness tt we spo explosive devicehewere throwinghem police.rsions,hooting at the fromhat you've heard from him, does tha off any additional inght as to whether this may can tell you it's bos highly unusual for any type of street criminal t descred as a grenade or any type of explove
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device. and, of course, we've h one witness suggest there was even a pressure coor type of device that was in theandsf the spects. at this time, there seems toe more eyetness informioth would link it t the suspects being sought as oed to as you incate, thgarden variety iminals. the challenge right now for law enforcement,ell, it's a chlengfor the media to understand what's going on. thehallge for law enforcement is should they have one individual icustody. you either have this shooter armed with explosives in a hicl or on ft. ther way capable of hijacking another car, capablef breaking into a private home, a hing
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it evolve into a heavily armed hostage situation. it's a highlyd, highly would hope that law fo theng to be if two suspects were seen trying to break into vehicles and if two subjects engage police in a fire fight, we noo ed to have both of those in custody. obviously law enforcement can mac a determination if they have one person. does he look like the photographs or not? so law enforcement knows that. they know what they're up against. and i would say that if that second subject is still a fugitive, if we see more and more heavily armed police presence, fbi and local and state police tactical teams, that's going to suggest a greater probability that these individuals are related to the marathon bombings. >> and clint, i want to ask you
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as a profiler. the photos were released on thursday. does it seem logical that someone who committed such a high-profile attack like that would stay in the same area for an entire week and then try to make their escape after photos of them had been released. in terms of a profiling perspective. is that consistent with the kind of criminal we're talking about here? >> it could be. should these two individuals whose photographs we've seen that are at the fbi considers suspects in the bombing, should they be from the local area or resided in the local area for a while prior to the bombing, it could be consistent for them to hunker down or shelter in place trying to wait out the heat of the situation before they left the area. now, you and i would say, well, wouldn't it be consistent to get on the first plane and get out
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of town. get out of the country. we never know what the behavior's going to be. many times we'll find people who will commit horrific crimes, crimes they've planned out meticulously and that will have a very good plan, but the escape plan is where it breaks down at times. so, you know, it could be a lot of different things. but right now, the presence of explosives in the possession of the two subjects. number one, really ramped this situation up to an extremely threatening situation. and number two, suggests if we had to say could it or could it not be related, therest a much more positive chance due to the explosives and due to the fire fight nature of it that it's more than a common street crime. >> and clint, we heard from our eyewitness that the two suspects had firearms and explosives in
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their possession. there's the possibility that at least one of them got away and is still at large. should the public be worried about their safety at this time? >> if, in fact, there's still someone at large, the public needs to make sure they have their homes closed. this is not the time to be going out your front door and seeing what's going on. if we have a subject at large at this time, with weapons, explosives, et cetera, there's a high likelihood that person if they're not in a vehicle would attempt to get into some type of private residence, hold the occupants. this is the time to lock your doors and stay inside, monitor television and radios, but don't try to go outside and see what's going on. that's a way somebody could get hurt tonight. >> and i want to bring our viewers up to speed on
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everything that's happened this evening. a lot of developments. a very fluid situation. again, i want to stress that we don't know if any of these different cases are related. but here's what's happened this evening. earlier this evening around 10:45, there was a shooting on the campus of m.i.t. in cambridge, massachusetts, that's just outside of boston. and m.i.t. police officer was responding to reports of a disturbance when he was shot multiple times, taken to the hospital where he was then pronounced dead. and later on in the evening in watertown, extensive gun shots. i want to bring back a witness who saw the whole thing from his own apartment window. andrew, can you recap for me what you saw this evening? >> yeah, at around 12:45, 12:50, i heard a couple gun shots outside of my apartment and i went to the window

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