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tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  May 1, 2013 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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send the prisoners we can't put on trial to other countries. but what country is willing to take them or i should say, what country do we trust to keep an eye on them? this is a real problem. in the old day we released prisoners of war when the war was over. they go home. when is this war going to be over? this war on terrorism? if they were simply criminals, we could incarcerate them and then let them go. when are we able to release people that are determined to go to war the day they go out? i'm open for new ideas and we need them. that's all for now. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris. breaking news. three college friends of dzhokhar tsarnaev have been arrested and charged in a boston federal courthouse. this is brand-new video showing the suspects being led from the
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courthouse to a detention center where they are being held right now. two of the suspects were charged with obstructing a federal terrorism investigation. they are also accused of knowingly destroying, concealing, and covering up a laptop and backpack containing fireworks. here's a photo released of the fireworks released inside a dumpster near their apartment. a backpack also contained a jar of vaseline and a u-mass dartmouth homework assignment sheet that dzhokhar was currently enrolled in. the two here are azam azamat tazhayakov, di dias kadyrbayev.
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both from ka sdplchlt ikstan. the third man is rchl ob obel phillipos. this is big news for the investigation. three men charged with helping a terrorist cover up a crime. joining me from boston, michael isikoff and don croft in houston. he managed the investigation of the 1993 bombing of the world trade center. thank you both for being with us tonight. >> good to be with you, al. >> good to be with you. >> michael, let me go to you first. what are you hearing on the ground about what happened inside that courtroom today? >>. >> reporter: well, according to our colleague who was in the courthouse, it was a very brief court appearance.
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the judge, who is the same judge who resided at that hospital bedroom hearing for tsarnaev was the presiding magistrate here, read the -- there were two hearings, read the two students their rights, told them -- asked if they could afford a lawyer. they did. they said yes and they actually do have separate counsel. and were advised of their rights and then that was it. the court hearing now has been scheduled for may 14th for both of them. and then the third one, robel phillipos, he was read his rights. the judge became somewhat displeased that he had his head down and didn't appear to be listening to her and he admonished her for not listening. >> the judge --
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>> a hearing has been scheduled. >> the judge admonished him? >> yes. the judge. >> all of these charges, michael, are after the bombing. they are not being charged with any involvement with the bombing or prior to the bombing. all of these are subsequent events? >> absolutely. there's no indication here from anything in the criminal complaints that these individuals had prior knowledge of the bombing or assisted with it. but that said, there's some pretty bizarre behavior outlined that is going to be very difficult for their lawyers to explain to the jury. the key events start that night. right after the fbi shows those photographs to the world of the suspects that they are looking for. >> i want to get into that, because speaking of bizarre, i
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want to ask you about some chilling details in this part of the criminal complaint. after seeing the fbi release photos of the suspect, kadyrbayev text tsarnaev and said you look like the suspect and he returned saying "lol" and said, you better not text me and come to my room and take whatever you want. what are you hearing about this? >> well, look, especially that last line, come to my room and take whatever you want, you know, could easily be interpreted as some sort of code to go do it. now, the fbi does not allege that. we have no evidence that that's what it was but right after those text exchanges, they do go to the room. they go to his room, the room
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that all three of these individuals go to the room. they let him in, they see the backpack with explosives in it. they take it and then they also notice the laptop computer and because they do not want -- there's a roommate there, because they do not want the roommate to think that they are stealing the backpack, they also take the computer, at least that's the account that these individuals gave to the fbi and hardly seems esculpatory but that's what is in the complaint. >> how do you view the statement, is it where you take what you want and how the jury, in fact, criminal behavior.
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>> you ask a good question and make a good point. the key is exactly what you said. all of these things that we're talking about here, we have the law enforcement community, they have to take this information and take everything that they have gathered out there and so that they can go to court and it's feasible enough for them to make charges against them. keep in mind, they have to have facts and that's everybody knows that. they have to have facts about everything that they are doing but they have enough information at this point to be able to make some arrests and to have some individuals there. and once you get that, it's a process where you continue on moving forward. and as you mentioned, 1993 and some of the other investigations that we've gone through, we've gone through the same type of process. we've got to be deliberate and we've got to be definitely correct on the directions that we're going to move with. >> now, an interesting footnote, don, in the complaint.
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during these interviews, tazhayakov indicated that while eating a meal with dzhokhar and tamerlan one month to the marathon bombing, dzhokhar explained that knew how to make a bomb. i mean, that's a big wow for me. what does that tell you, though? >> well, you know, normal people don't sit down at a table eating and decide how to make a bomb. that's not a decision making place. this is involved with people who have been talking about this activity and activities such as this and talking about what they are going to do with it and how they are going to do with it. al, as you mentioned, you know, we go back and we know a long time ago that you don't just walk out here when these things explode and say, oh, my goodness, it just happened right now. the only time it happens is when
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it's purely an accident. other than that, there was someone working up a plan as to what is the best thing to use to disrupt activities and to cause harm. >> now, i want to go back to something that michael isikoff said. he said about the backpack, i want to ask you about that. the friends aallegedly took the backpack and laptop from dzhokhar's dorm back to their apartment and how key is this piece of evidence? >> well -- >> i think it's very key. >> don, go ahead and then michael. >> i think it's very key. we live today in the electron neck world and to be able to obtain that in a lawful manner to use that, that could be a lot of information that's contained within that to help this investigation and it may move it into directions that we don't even know about at this point.
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i mean, unfortunately, for using the computer system and so forth, there's a lot of storage facility for information that is in there and i'm sure the experts will be able to really go through and analyze and get what they need out of that of what's in there, i should say. >> meek kell, how key is it that you're hearing and do you know where the laptop is? >> well, actually, i do have a little bit of news on that. because what the fbi affidavit says is that the backpack was thrown in the garbage and then found in the landfill and that's what kadyrbayev is accused of concealing from the fbi. they don't say anything that happened to that laptop but i had an e-mail exchange with his lawyer and asked what happened to the laptop and he said the laptop was turned over.
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now, remember, the lawyer for kadyrbayev has said that he has cooperated with the fbi ever since he was detained right after these events. so the turning over the laptop would be consistent with that line of defense, that once asked by the fbi about all this, his client came clean and told the fbi everything and turned over relevant evidence. it is worth noting that only the last defendant, phillipos is charged with lying to the fbi. he was questioned four times and changed his story several times and then confessed of being present and being aware with what happened. the other two are not charged with lying so that could be consistent with what the lawyer is saying, that once they were asked by the fbi about what happened, they came clean. clearly that wasn't enough for
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the fbi because they are charged with removing that evidence. but it is important to know. >> don, go ahead. >> i'm sorry, al. i didn't mean to break in to that. but the fact that they said that they gave everything out of the telephone and all of the information that they have doesn't necessarily mean that they actually did do that. because there may be significant amount of information that's withheld and maybe some did get out but i doubt if all of it got out at this point. >> they are looking, don, the investigators and prosecutors -- are they looking to find out from the laptop from these materials that they've been able to confiscate where there is a bigger conspiracy here, who they are in contact with, what the communication could be? could this lead to whether it was just him and his brother or whether they were, in fact, in touch with some larger groups, a foreign group that was involved
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in guiding them through this? >> well, you know, al, to be honest with you, what you said is that they are looking for all of the above. you know, they are looking for everything you're looking at to see who is connected with it, is there someone else providing different things and so forth. nonetheless, this is a piece by piece investigation and it's not, okay, we've covered this part. we've arrested three guys so that's it and now we can go home and we can all rest in peace. that's not the case. you know very well that these investigations go on and as they investigate and they talk to people and they look at other information that they have, they will find that there are other people who have some information either to provide or have some connection with it. it just happens that za michael isikoff and don clark, thank you for your time tonight. >> pleasure, al. good to see you, man.
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ahead, a top republican is spilling the beans about why they really oppose president obama's policies. you'll definitely want to hear this. plus, does the tea party still leak sarah palin? you bet y achl. there's a new push to get her back into public office. plus, ten years after mission pleshed, republicans have failed to learn the lessons of bush and they are still beating the drums of war. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. [ male announcer ] running out of steam? ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.
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have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. people had a lot to say about the newtown victims' daughter who confronted kelly ayotte at a
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town hall for her vote against background checks. michael says, "good for her. i love it when people leak ayotte get confronted with the truth." this is what we all have to do and we have the opportunity. call them out on their votes. and joe says, "they will be held account nl for the accountable for their votes with our votes." he's right. we'll explain that one next. first, we want to hear what you think. please head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and "le "like" us to keep the conversation going long after the show ends. not bad.
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i've heard republicans offer a lot of lame excuses for why they voted against background checks for gun violence. but now the truth has finally come out. gop senator pat toomey who co-sponsored the bill says, "in the end it didn't pass because we're so politicized. there were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it." . now, let's think about that. it's really stunning. blocking a gun bill just because they didn't want to be seen as helping the president? this is an absolute betrayal of public trust.
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he's putting politics over people. it's what president obama has said all along. in fact, he said it again yesterday. >> they are worried about their politics. it's tough. their base thinks that compromise with me is somehow a betrayal. >> they think compromise is a dirty word. they are just worried about their own personal politics. as "the new york times" explained it, republicans have made it clear that erecting hurdles for mr. obama is, if anything, their overriding legislative goal. mr. mcconnell said the gop's top priority was stopping president obama. turns out, it's their only priority. joining me now is joy reid and bob shrum. thank you both for being here tonight. >> glad to be here, rev. >> bob, what are we seeing here with senator too many me's comments? i mean, is this a peak behind
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the curtain? >> pat toomey committed the truth and the truth is that if the president is for something, the republicans are against it. obama said it right. the fact is, they are terrified of a tea party primary in their districts so it's very hard to get anything done. it's very different from, say, 1986 when ronald reagan could work with a democratic congress on tax reform. those days are long gone. as i look ahead to something leak immigration reform, i'm not particularly optimistic. all you have to do is listen to marco rubio waffle in the last day or two unless he could continue discrimination against gays and even if the bill gets through the senate, it goes to the house where there's a very good chance it's going to get killed. look, you have a republican party right now that is so adamant that every day in washington is groundhog day. >> yeah. >> every day is another day of gridlock. >> but joy, we've heard a lot of
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pundits blame president obama for the inaction of congress. >> uh-huh. >> just today, maureen dowd road this. "it is his job to get them to behave. the job of the former community organizer and self-styled uniter is to somehow get this dunderheaded congress to do the stuff that he wants them to do. joy, doesn't that really prove a point, if republicans are only interested in obstructing the president, how can he possibly get them to do what he wants? >> feed them more dinners. there's been this thing among the media, something about barack obama that's causing this obstruction. he's not feeding them enough, should get drinks with them, as if there's something about his personality that is stopping them from behaving. we saw kevin draper's paul ryan,
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kevin mccarthy and other members of the so called young guns needing to plot total obstruction. you heard mitch mcconnell. there's a reason why you're seeing pundits saying it's a post policy party. the only thing they disagree on is they want to despise and dislodge this president. you see it with everything, with immigration where he can't tough it otherwise it can't pass. this is not about denvers. this is about a party that -- >> i also sense con ddescending attitudes, it's his fault and these are people committed to obstructionism. but nobody said what is wrong with you guys, it's his fault. and you know, i think that -- i hear a lot about how good lyndon
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johnson was as he was handling the senate and washington crowd. let me show you this picture where he was getting an a for this in his face. he's known for leaning in and getting in people's face and he wasn't a senator but that was johnson's style. but you also had to deal that his speaker was sam rayburn who he and rayburn came up to the ranks together in texas. you're not dealing with john boehner when you look at a relationship between the speaker doing lyndon johnson and presidency now. and i think the comparison ares crazy when you look at the differences that they were dealing with. >> well, it's not just a matter of style. the lyndon johnson comparison is completely wrong.
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he had two-thirds majority in the house and senate. >> and still was opposed by a lot of the republicans just wasn't enough of them. >> that's correct. and after 1966, he had a lot of trouble because he lost seats in the midterm. look, this whole thing that's been created, maureen dowd started it, it's a total misreading of the situation, in my view. the president had a nice response to it at the correspondents' dinner. they say, why don't have you a drink with mitch mcconnell? why don't you have a drink with mitch mcconnell. these folks are determined not to change and steve israel who runs the national campaign committee, they are out there recruiting good candidates, raising a lot of money, they have to break this unprecedented gridlock with unprecedented gains and they are going to need the help of the obama
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organization to turn out those voters who don't normally turn out in midterm elections. >> bob, you wrote the best way for the president to get something done in his second term is to retake the house in 2014 and "he will have to invoke the full persuasive power of the bul bully pulpit and sus stean the full firepower of his vaunted political organization in 2014. i think when you read those pundits that look down their nose and tell him to be different, they were the ones who were predicting he would not win re-election or it was going to be so close or he blew it this time, why don't we concede now? >> right. >> he's beat them every time. >> there's always some flaw in
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obama's character personality, something about him. maureen dowd thinks maybe all of a sudden he would bring the congress to heal. no president, no tv president would be able to do it. i think bob shrum made the most important point. fdr had 75 democrats at one point. he had 70 when he started off his term. lyndon johnson had 68 republicans in the senate. he had 64 with the voting rights act. you know it's not being a tv personality but majority in the house. that's how it works. >> and even then they voted against him on that. i mean, a president has to deal with the time he's in and the hand he's dealt and barack obama did not set this hand. he received his hand, in many ways, because a lot of the democrats did not deliver the vote and he couldn't energize the country to do it.
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>> you had republican monday rat moderates who were -- john lindsey, a congressman from new york at the time, who were strongly for civil rights. so he had big majorities. he could break that filibuster. >> and republicans not as far to the right, like you said, jacob javers, john lindseys, you don't have anyone like that in the party and they are acting naive. >> i agree with that. absolutely. the truth of the matter is if you look at the composition of the republican party in the 1960s, it was a much more did i vrs party than diverse party than it is today. they may do okay in 2014. i think we can push back in getting those seats.
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the way they are headed, i don't know how they are going to win a presidential election in 2016, 2020, 2024. they are on the wrong side of the demographics and most of the major issues in this country. >> we'll see where it goes. just so you know, we are not old enough to remember all of that. we just read a lot. >> read up on it. >> joy reid and bob shrum, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> why the war hawks on the right still haven't learned the lessons of mission accomplished. plus, a tea party in control? a stunning new poll that shows how the gop is more extreme than ever, with some even talking about an armed revolution. stay with us. ♪
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any idea how extreme the republican party has gotten? try this on for size. 44% of republicans think an armed revolution may be necessary in the next few years in order to protect our liberties and arm rebel general. can you believe this? maybe you can because it's the same party where 30% believe the president is a muslim. and today we learn gop congressman steve's campaign flyer asked president obama to help take over texas schools. then, there's tea party ted cruz who called president obama the most radical president we've ever seen and marked fellow republicans for being squishies on gun control. >> pretty crazy, right?
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>> but in this gop, he's considering a run for president. just what the country needs. this is a party off the deep end. armed revolutions, calling the president a radical, yet the president is being asked if he's out of juice to pass his agenda? he know who is to blame. >> you seem to suggest that somehow these folks over there have no response bill teas and that my job is to somehow get them to behave. that's their job. they are elected -- members of congress are elected in order to do what's right for their constituencies and the american people. >> joining me now, ryan grim and joe madison. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> thank you, reverend sharpton. >> joe, 44% of republicans think an armed revolution may be
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necessary. how can the president deal with this party? >> well, he's the only adult, apparently, in the room. this is mccarthyism multiplied by a thousand. we thought we went through this in history. you didn't even mention -- and i imagine you might later on -- the fact that they are talking about having congressional hearings on conspiracy theories and the one amazing conspiracy that's out there and being promoted is that the first lady is hiding the real boston terrorist. it's absolutely absurd. and who do i blame? you know, i don't blame the clowns for behaving the way they do in the circus. i blame actually the people who buy tickets to the circus, the people who buy into this, the people who vote for this, and most important of all, particularly on the other side -- and i'm not trying to provided a advice for the
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republicans -- but my god, where are the responsible adults in the republican party to come together and put an end to this foolishness? >> ryan, talking about conspiracy theories, the president addressed some of them in the white house correspondents' dinner last weekend. listen to this. >> these days i look in the mirror and i have to admit, i'm not the strapping young muslim socialist that i used to be. my administration put out a photograph of me going skeet shooting at camp david. do you remember that? and quite a number of people insisted that this had been photoshopped but tonight i have something to confess. you were right. guys, can we show them the actual photo? i'm also hard at work on plans for the obama library and some have suggested that we put it in my birth place but i'd rather keep it in the united states.
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>> so ryan, president obama decided to make humor out of it and laugh at it. but enough people are polled and supportive of these theories that it's kind of scary, even though it's hilarious, it's still frightening. >> right. these people invest so much energy in thinking about these conspiracies and these imagined future fantasies of federal agents kicking in doors and black hawk helicopters floating around. but in reality, we already have that. it's called the drug war and it's called the criminal justice system that has been expanding for the last 30 years. we now have more than two million people in prison. the second amendment seems to be the only bill of rights that they actually want to keep around. there are very real civil liberty issues going on right now. people are getting their doors
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kicked in by s.w.a.t. teams right now but where are these folks when it comes to the drug war? if you want to actually protect civil liberties, you could do something right now. instead, they are saying that the department of homeland security is hoarding bullets, things like that that don't have any connection to what is actually happening. >> that's not the issue. guns and all kinds of things on the right become the issue. now, looking at that, all republicans are not being unreasonable. look at chris christie, someone who i don't disagree with his policies but he's touting his ability to compromise. even if his new campaign. look at this. >> as long as you stick to your principles, compromise isn't a dirty word. >> that's his campaign ad, first one for his re-election this year for the governor of new
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jersey. will the republican party follow the likes of chris christie or the likes of ted cruz? >> well, i'm afraid what they will do is probably follow the likes of ted cruz because what tends to happen -- and we've seen this throughout history -- three years after the civil war, the rise of the koo klux klan. why? the south was broken and disarray, suffering. let's fast forward to the '30s. there were a lot of members then. they were at the height. why? because of the depression. what tends to happen is when you have economic uncertainty, people look for escape goats. >> right. >> the president makes for a poor target. the poor doom mondayized. they are now saying that people on welfare ought to have drug tests. they ought to be testing the
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people who make those kinds of laws. you know, if you want to be fair about it. i did a show today about the fact that there may be $34 trillion -- trillion dollars stashed offshore and around the world. $34 trillion. this is absurd. we are watching scapegoating going on and i'm afraid it's the cruzes, the talk show reality on the right, they get the attention and scare the hell out of everybody. >> ryan grim, joe madison, thank you for your time this evening. republicans are still beating the drums of war and rushing to judgment. and why was a voter stifled at kelly ayotte's town hall? stay with us.
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ten years ago president bush said mission accomplished. the war in iraq was a mistake and ten years ago it was far from accomplished. not by a long shot. that's next. [ kate ] many women may not be absorbing the calcium they take
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today hawks and the gop are once again beating the drums of war demanding action against syria. but for getting the lessons of the past.
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it was on this day ten years ago that president bush pulled off the most notorious pr stunt in recent political history. he landed on the deck of an air cast carrier, strutted around in a flight suit and told the american people that we had won in iraq. the banner said, "mission accomplished" and president bush said these now infamous words. >> major combat operations in iraq have ended and the battle of iraq, the united states and our allies have per veiled. >> but, of course, the mission was not accomplished. more than 35,000 american troops would be killed or injured after that claim. in a war that started with false claims about the need to invade. >> but we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud. >> now we're hearing the same kind of rhetoric again,
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fearmongering and sable rattling. >> millions of people are going to be compromised and the next bomb that goes off in america may not have nails and glass in it. >> the smoking gun may be a mushroom cloud. we've heard it before but we won't get fooled again. joining me now is wayne slater, senior political writer for "the dallas morning news" and co-author of "bush's brain." today the library officially opened to the public. it's not part of the exhibit, right? >> absolutely. it's not there. i looked around and could not find it. >> when you look at the toll of the war in iraq, i mean, the human toll, nearly 4500 americans was killed in the war. the iraq civilian death toll estimated at between 112,000 and
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122,000. more than 32,000 were wounded, many of them maimed or crippled and cost them $1.7 trillion in taxpayer money. that's a huge toll to be going after weapons of mass destruction that wasn't there. >> absolutely. you look at this anniversary today, ten years after the mission accomplishment accomplished landing by bush, we had lost 139 american military at that point. and as you suggested, in the decade that followed, nearly the decade that followed, we lost more than 4,000 military. george bush acted like it was paris 1944 when he landed on the deck of the "abraham lincoln." in fact, it was saigon 1955. you would think -- and you raised the question. you would think that we learned
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the lesson. yet, you're hearing the echos of exactly the same kinds of arguments from many of the same people in the rush to war crowd today. >> no doubt about it. >> than if anybody learns anything. >> no doubt about it. they want the president to take military action in syria. listen to what some of them are saying. >> be prepared with an international force to go in and secure these stocks of chemical and perhaps biological weapons. >> this is not a president who wants to start another war. that's the way he sees it. i think it's totally irresponsible for a president to have that. no one wants to start wars but you have to do what you've got to do. >> it can't be a dotted line. some action needs to be taken. >> now, the president said that he wants to have all of the facts before he moves, that he does not know how the gas that has been used in syria, where it came from, how it was done, what
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is so irrational about making sure that you're making moves that are, a, necessary, and, b, based on verifiable information, particularly when we just got out of a war that we didn't do that? >> that's one thing to be irrational or to jump in too quickly if we don't have our most immediate history, which obviously we do with respect to iraq. so there's nothing irrational about it at all. you know, you asked if anyone had learned anything. i guess from the mission accomplished and the subsequent years. it looks like the obama administration certainly has learned something and that it's that you don't do what cheney, pearl, and the rush to war crowd did beating the war drums ten years ago but to say, wait a minute, let's be sure. not only do we want to send
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troops willy-nilly into a dangerous situation, but we have learned from the history of the implications of what we do and the law of unintended consequences that often comes after this kind of thing. so obama obviously the administration is fighting for this. has got to make a decision but there's nothing irrational but looking at the facts and making a decision based on those facts. >> you know, wayne, today is also the second anniversary of the capture and killing of osama bin laden. but i'm sure that's not in the bush library either. he didn't do that. >> good to be with you. ahead, how lawmakers that refuse to do the right thing are facing the wrath of voters. that's next. [ dad ] ah! lily...
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the brutal last year of gun deaths in the city of chicago dropped dramatically so far this year. that's some good news for sure. but hours before police planned to announce today, gunfire rang out at nine separate places in the city. 20 people were hurt and three were killed, according to nbc chicago. in this country, guns are everywhere, including toy boxes. this is a.22-caliber rifle called a cricket. it's made just for kids. it comes in bright colors and it's sold as, quote, my first rifle. yesterday in kentucky, a 5-year-old boy was playing with this cricket rifle when it accidently fired, killing his 2-year-old baby sister. the local sheriff called it,
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quote, just one of those crazy accidents. what is crazy is our gun laws and the politicians who stand against them and sometimes a regular citizen says enough is enough, like this man out of town hall with new hampshire republican senator kelly ayotte. >> i have a question. >> we'll have a process and get to as many questions as we can. so -- >> you don't want to regulate guns. >> well -- >> senator ayotte made her choice to vote against background checks and it's costing her. her approval rating is down 15%. 50% of voters said they would be less likely to vote for her because of her vote. arizona senator jeff flake is
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catching problems, too. though politicians are voting for politics but the average citizen is voting for their children to preserve safety for those they love. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. friends. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. whose side are you on? the side of terrorists who attacked hundreds of people killing three, wounding dozens and dozens more, or are you on the side of the country you're living in, the country you've come to study in, learn


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