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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  May 28, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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purple red states, winning consistently with f ratings. nobody took notice until recently. you are seeing people saying wait, can i maybe get away with supporting sensible gun control, that's the key. people like joe manchin. i was in deepest west virginia with joe manchin in counties that obama lost by 50 points. joe manchin there after lost, still working on it. >> he was on here still working. you get the last word. thanks. chris hayes is next.
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his personal concern and compassion for the state and people of our state. >> the governor's open embrace of the president six days before the election angered the party, not as much as when christie called a press conference january 2nd for the purpose of eviscerating house republicans for stalling on sandy. >> there's only one to blame for the continued suffering of the innocent victims. the house majority and their speaker, john boehner. it was disappointing and disgusting to watch. >> those would be iconic moments between the president and chris christie and house republicans. they reflected a pivot for christie, and effective at that. he gave a keynote at the
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republican national convention. his approval rating since then, he went from 56% approval in mid october before the storm hit to a record breaking 74% in february, and now hovers at 69% safely. the uncynical interpretation of this is that christie is the governor of new jersey, a state ravaged by sandy, desperately needed help from the federal government, and probably a lot to that. the cynical interpretation is christie is the governor of new jersey, a state obama won by 17 points. being a partisan identified republican, when the party's brand is in the toilet, doesn't bode well for a guy that has election here. he is so powerful going into election, in the staff meeting this morning, among people that do politics for a living, took an embarrassingly long time to remember the name of the democratic opponent, is state senator barbara
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barring some changes in the political outlook. we all know he has natural aspirations. now that he's cleared the hurdle of election or home state popularity by pivoting towards obama, we're now watching him pivot back. guess what, he's doing it on the very same thing he built his last pivot on which is sammy. here's chris christie answering matt lauer's question about the role of climate change. >> i haven't been shown proof that's what caused it. this is distraction. i have a place to rebuild here. and people want to talk to me about esoteric theories. >> the thing to understand about sandy is proof is beside the point. sandy is an indicator of the clie clooi the ma future. and if you view it as unrelated to a larger climate pattern, you're going to be in bad shape.
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the attitude guarantees that. since taking office he has defunded the office of climate change and energy within the department of environmental protection. taking it it out of the energy fund to balance the budget, withdrawn the state from the cap and trade plan and perhaps most relevant so woefully underprepared his transportation agency for climate change that the state sustained $120 million in damage in sandy. according to a report from the record, new york's metro transit authority had 11 damaged rail cars total after sandy compared to 342 pieces of damaged new jersey transit equipment. including 11 locomotives and the reason for the disparity is because new jersey didn't properly anticipate the severity of the storm. when the record failed public records requests, here's what they found. the nta plan for severe storms
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is detailed in five binders each three inches thick. new jersey's plan was 3 1/2 pages with everything blacked out. chris christie is too busy preparing to serve up read redd meat with political is not governing but beginning to remember how to tell the republican base everything they want to hear. and it's looking like climate denial is central to that strategy. joining me is james perry, an executive director of the greater new orleans. housing action center. here at the table richard kim, editor of the i find chris christie -- it's like a guilty pleasure for me. i hate how much he gets, but i find him fascinating. >> i'm fascinate d by him becaue
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i grew up in new jersey. and i wen to the beach that they were at today. it's a totally beautiful beach. i'm glad it's getting a lot of attention. . and i have to give chris christie a few points here. he had real empathy for his constituents. he fought his own party to get relief. he's kind of administered that relief without turning into a gross spectacle. that minimum bar of believing in disaster relief and administering it competently is not going to cut it in the 21st century. we need massive amounts of disaster mitigation and adaptation. >> the only way to get that is to be on this it central issue. you're someone who has looked at how disaster recovery happens. is there a story about how recoveries were not getting as much. we see the shore and i wonder if there's a story about the recovery in new jersey even specifically that's not getting
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told in the same way. >> just be patient and you may see some of those typical politics happen. what's most troubling is there's been this clear passion for a conservative approach. him taking $200 million away from the energy trust fund. and what's quietly happened is he tried to spend the money for sandy in a way that wouldn't help low income and urban communities. give it it time and you will -- >> wait, what does that mean? >> here's what's clear. when you look at the original plan that the governor submitted to recover from hurricane sandy, it had very little money for people in urban communities. it was only after the obama administration quietly pushed him to add $75 million for low income communities that he agreed to do so. so the original approach was one that left out low income people. >> that's interesting you say that. the interesting thing about the
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obama/chris christie political partnership, if you can call it that, is it's mutually beneficial. obama won the state by 17 points. president obama gets to be seen doing the thing that he said he was going to be able to do, which was work with republicans. republicans have made it impossible for him to do that by and large. but what james said is fascinating. it makes me think there are political benefits to this relationship. my question is, is barack obama complicit in the fact there's going to be a democratic opponent. >> barack obama is kbgetting a t of this bromance too. chris christie is benefitting a whole lot more. my question is, i don't know how much that promans is going to work for chris christie down the line. if he has national ambitions to win a republican primary for. president, that's where he has
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to go. >> this is the big question. do you think that political relationship is actually baring tangible fruit? >> absolutely. there's no doubt about it. when they ran in 2009 he argued heavily about increasing property taxes. they rose about 6% under corzine. under christie they have risen by 18%. that's a huge rise. the moment you start to pay attention to the lack of progress under the christie administration, he's in trouble. you have to focus on sandy and obama. that's the way he wins. >> so on the issue of climate, on him trying to undo this, here's he being relatively clear about what he thinks about climate. this is him in august of 2011. take a listen. >> in the past i have always said that climate change is real and it's impacting our state. decade average temperatures have been rising and temperature
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changes are affecting weather patterns in our climate. >> his problem is the newt gingrich problem. he's now on record. he's starting to run away from it. his new line, which i love, to thread the needle and not look like an idiot, it's esoteric. i'm too busy getting the state back together to interfere in this scientific relationship. but the climate question relates to the broader question which is the pictures of him and barack obama, him on record on climate change, that stuff is still in the primary. how dumb do you think voters are or do you think the base isn't going to be as strong as it was? >> chris christie thinks they are pretty dumb. because that's such a cynical statement he made. he went further in recent dates. he said there's no proof that climate change caused hurricane sandy. that's just total red meat for the base. i find it so disingenuous.
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the claim is that climate change works. sea levels in new york city are up a foot before they were a hundred years ago. they are set to rise five feet in the next 100 years. it it takes someone who believes in. climate change to believe in that. >> the other point is about you got to be thinking about the stuff when rebuilding. the thing i keep thinking is look how much money this costs. everybody los the jersey shore. we love the boardwalk. but we just rebuilt the boardwalk in the same place. it's the same ocean. it's the same climate. it's only going do get worse. it seems like we need to be thinking about this actively in what we rebuild if we're going to have any shot of not just repeating these images. >> if chris christie is serious about this, he would reinstate the energy fund. he rebuilds his community in a way that ensures they are prepared for future disaster recognizing that climate change is going to impact this
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community. that's a real path to showing resiliency in new jersey and that he's ready for the presidency. >> the housing trust fund, a federal judge struck down his attempt to use that trust fund money for the second time. >> the state supreme court today as christie was walking around the shore trying to get more money from the government he was actually refusing to spend affordable housing trust fund money. the supreme court stepped in. >> great to have you both. thank you. a big aggressive move from the president against the chronic obstruction of republicans in congress. he's daring them to fill bibust. that's coming up. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions
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an update tonight on a story we've been following here at "all in." we spoke with katelyn hunt who faces two felony charges for her consensual relationship with a 14-year-old classmate. when we spoke, she had two days
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before a plea deadline that included pleading guilty to two counts of child abuse, two years of house arrest followed by one year of probation and sex offender counseling. on friday, she rejected that plea deal. she faces trial, and if convicted, she faces a maximum of up to 15 years in prison. and we will definitely continue to follow this story here and on our website ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you engineer a true automotive breakthrough?
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♪ you give it bold styling, unsurpassed luxury and nearly 1,000 improvements. the redesigned 2013 glk. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. have you been waiting for president obama to do something, anything, to fight back against the unprecedented obstructionism by the republican congress against his nominees, then keep an eye on this story. according to the "new york times," an aggressive and unprecedented move of his own, the president is getting ready to announce three nominees to the d.c. court of appeals. all at the same time. "the times" says president obama will effectively be daring republicans to find specific ground to fiibuster all the nominees or he's betting the
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republicans won't have the nerve to block them all. this forward-leaning posture is a new position for the president because the story of judges below the supreme court level throughout the obama years has been one of tremendous obstruction by republicans and to be frank, some laziness on the part of the white house which has been a little laid back in appointing new federal judges. these new factors have worked together to reduce president obama's impact on lower courts. the number of court vacancies rose during president obama's first term from 57 to 75 comparatively during president bush's first term, vacanies dropped from 81 to 41. the senate voted 97-0 to confirm the president's nominee to the d.c. court of appeals. that's good news. the bad news, do you know whose vacancy was filling? chief justice john roberts' seat, which has been empty since he moved to the supreme court in 2005. getting judges nominated to the d.c. court of appeals is pivotal
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for the president, mainly because the d.c. court of appeals is very, very important. it's widely considered the second most important court in the nation after the supreme court because it's where laws passed by congress are challenged and senate republicans realize how important it is. it's been a huge battle for them to pack that court and so much so, in fact, they are looking to hold on to the court's current conservative tilt by -- get this -- introducing legislation to reduce the number of judges on the d.c. circuit. conveniently by the same number of vacancies left on the court. >> the legislation is very straightforward. it would add a seat to the second and the 11th circuit. at the same time, it would reduce the number of authorized judgeships for the d.c. circuit from 11-8. >> but in the face of republicans, fight back with maximalism of its own.
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comes in tandem with increasing noise being made by majority leader harry reid on getting rid of the right to filibuster judicial nominees. it was always the case that nothing was going to happen with respect to the filibuster without the white house pushing for it. and what the president's new strategy of announcing three nominees at once does, shine a big bright light on republican obstructionism in the senate. joining me tonight, senior editor and legal affairs writer for "slate." great to have you with us. can we start with the practice of filibustering judicial nominees? i remember when the roles were somewhat reversed. it was democrats filibustering bush judicial nominees and then we were saved from a group of bipartisan senators who got together and struck a deal that was going to stop that from happening again. where did we end up on that? because seems whatever they did there is not working. >> well, whatever they did there hasn't lasted. they made a deal that the filibuster for judges would only be used in exceptional
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circumstances. but since president obama took office in his first term, the waiting time for his nominees from when they get approved in committee to a floor vote has increased by more than four times. so there's all kinds of delay and filibuster happening and it's become really routine. >> you only got to filibuster in exceptional circumstances and the meaning of exceptional has been completely destroyed. katelyn haligan, nominated twice by the president, to fill a spot on this court, she was filibustered two times for one case that she had worked on, right, in new york. >> exactly. she had come in on the side of the theory that it's possible under negligence to sue gun manufacturers. and that was the reason the republicans gave for blocking her nomination. >> that constitutes exceptional. now working on one case constitutes exceptional.
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i want to read you this section of the "times" which drove me crazy. it's refused to render a judgment on what was an empirical claim. republicans deny they were obstructing the nominee and say mr. obama's picks were being confirmed more quickly than were nominees controlling the senate. let me show you a statistic, president obama's judicial nominees are waiting 80 days longer than bush nominees in the first term of the presidency. there it is in black and white. the problem is getting worse. this is not just republican blinders on my part. >> the problem of delay is definitely getting worse. you know, i think one of the underlying issues here is nobody has ever defined a precise standard for when someone is exceptional, when they're really controversial. it seems like some of the filibustering of choices like haligan are on the other side of that line. and like we were saying, this has just become routine practice.
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not about controversy. it's not as if there's some obvious way to draw a line here. >> right. which is what comes down -- which brings me to the point. this is just sheer political will to power, right? everything that guides this process are basically norms. and those norms are created by calculations of who has political power, which is why, i think, it's such a remarkable thing for the white house to take this unprecedented step and have three nominees at a time because they are proactively trying to initiate conflict with the republicans because they're so fed up with this. is that the right reading? >> i think that's right. you know, choosing judges in an incredibly important way in which the president cements his legacy, any president. for obama, there's already a new challenge to obama care coming through the federal courts. whatever he does and congress does on immigration reform, climate change, they will all be challenged. and so, i think what you have here is the president making a big move and finally signaling that he is ready to take seriously the lower federal
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courts and make this a priority. which given his record thus far is surprising. >> yeah, that has been one of the parts of the presidency in the first term, i think that a lot of people felt was not great and that was a combination of what the white house did and obstruction. but the big question now becomes what happens next. if republicans filibuster all three, my sense is, that's a great way of showing the notion of exceptional is ridiculous, right? because it can't just happen to be that all three of these nominees, all of whom seem fairly safe are exceptionally bad. >> right. and it also shines a big light on these delay tactics, which should increase the political price for them, right. because obstructionism of this kind is not a mainstream political thing to do. >> right. >> if you make it really loud and clear what's happening, maybe some of the republican senators will start feeling some pressure back from their constituents. >> and that is the point of this entire thing, right?
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there are no rules here, what you can get away with. and the question is what the outcome of political pressure is. thanks so much, i really appreciate it. >> thanks so much for having me. move over, maryann barry, the title no longer belongs to you. the new champion in detail coming up. [ female announcer ] the best thing about this bar it's not a candy bar. 130 calories 7 grams of protein the new fiber one caramel nut protein bar.
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♪ happy birthday rob ford >> why should he resign? >> because he's humiliating us. >> those were protesters in
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toronto earlier commemorating the 44th birthday of their embattled mayor rob ford. he's at the center of the strangest caper burning in american politics. we aren't used to hearing or reading about a canadian scandal. and if we do, it's more along the lines of this. the mayor of winnipeg having to explain to constituents why he casually tossed a freshly chewed piece of gum on the ground. that's a true canadian scandal happening right now. thanks to rob ford, the bar setting the standard for what constitutes a canadian scandal has creeped quite a bit upward. and the story gets weirder by the day. all right. it all started when two separate media outlets, "the toronto star" and the website gawker, both published reports describing a cell phone video that allegedly shows ford having a laid back conversation with drug dealers and smoking crack cocaine. the cell phone video has been written about and never shown to the public because it reportedly
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comes with a price tag. gawker, launched an online campaign which they were calling crack starter raising $200,000 needed to obtain the video. editor john cook says they got the money but the website has lost contact with the people who have custody of the video. as for ford, he has denied the existence of the video. he's also denied using crack cocaine, although it was one of the greatest nondenial denials ever. and the saga took another bizarre turn with a new report from a canadian newspaper that indicates a man may have been killed because of his possession of the infamous videotape. in the meantime, two of the mayor's top press aides have resigned and ford fired his chief of staff after the chief of staff decided to talk to the police about this whole mess. and today, ford was questioned whether or not his staffers attempted to obtain the video that allegedly shows him smoking crack. all this is just the latest chapter in what could be called
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the rob ford reality show. prior to becoming mayor, ford served as a toronto city counselor for a decade for a knack for offensive statements and bullying behavior. he lobbied against an aids prevention program because if you're not doing needles and you're not gay, you wouldn't get aids probably. he was kicked out of the toronto maple leaves hockey game for drunkenly calling people among other things communists. and ford had a meltdown at a reporter who he believed insulted him. >> sir, walk away, it's the easiest way to do it. >> answer the question. >> from what i said, okay. >> answer the question. >> all right. >> why did you say that? >> why did you call him -- you said that. >> i just heard you. that's right. >> what did you say? what did you just say? >> you just called him a fat [ bleep ]. >> you just did. >> are you going to lie? are you going to lie about it. you just said that. >> you just called him a fat [ bleep ].
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why did you do that? i'd like to know what your editor says about this. i'd like to know what your editor says about this. >> can't you face the music? why can't you say that? >> you called me a fat [ bleep ]. >> even when ford is delivering what he calls compliments, he attracts controversy. he was forced to apologize regarding remarks he made with the work ethic. they sleep beside their machines, they're slowly taking over, they're hard, hard workers. rob ford is like the crotchety obnoxious relative, somehow, though, he became the head of the family. as mayor, ford has embarked on a right wing political agenda, anti-tax, anti-union, and anti-spending on services to the poor. to anyone well acquainted to say, scott walker, or john kasich in the states, this might sound familiar. cut bus routes, forced key concessions from public sector
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workers, refused to provide needed shelter for the homeless, opposed surface mass transit seeing it as part of the war on the car. in the past, he's called cyclists a pain in the ass who should expect to get injured. >> and what i compare bike lanes to is swimming with the sharks. sooner or later, you're going to get bitten. and my heart bleeds for them when someone gets killed. but it's their own fault at the end of the day. >> that's a ridiculous and offensive metaphor but one that could apply more accurately to ford's current situation. when you spend the brunt of your political career making enemies and offending interest groups, sooner or later, you rob ford, are going to get bitten. and when you're allegedly on video smoking crack, the feeding frenzy should come at no surprise and it's your own fault at the end of the day. ement stas hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use
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weekend for a u.s. senator to go slipping behind enemy lines in a war zone. but john mccain isn't the only member of congress taking his act abroad. one congressman is bringing his own boston bombing investigation to russia. that is coming up. but first, i want to share the three awesomist things on the internet today, beginning with the most internetty thing at the moment, jc penney's hitler teapot billboard it was downhill from there with gawker offering the side by side comparison, a likeness that cannot be denied. it rocketed to the top of things that look like hitler website. the tape recorder coming in second place. though, it can't compare to the actual hitler teapot which jc penney had nothing to do with, thank god. but it wasn't long before jc penney was clarifying on twitter, certainly unintended. if we design it to look like something, we would've gone with a snow man or something fun.
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and this, jc penney has announced they are ending plans for a billboard featuring a full pot of coffee. yes, that was a joke. beyonce taking charge as always. the singer was performing "irreplaceable" in copenhagen this weekend when a fan she generously included in the sing along slapped her behind as she walked away, which we now offer in slowmo. beyonce was quick to offer this warning. >> all right. got it. just happens to remind me of my favorite beyonce cover ever, "halo" as performed by lp. ♪ baby i can see your halo >> and the third awesomist thing on the internet today, "arrested
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development" hangover. one day after netflix released the season, the binge analysis has begun, notably with npr's guide to running gags on the show. it details the occurrence of a particular joke through all four seasons. running jokes about tobias' sexual confusion. >> no, i'm not gay. no, lindsay, how many times must we have this -- no. >> brand new season available all at once to be consumed by fans in the fraction of the time it took to get here. >> i would like to help you. we like to pull together around here. no, you watch your back, mr. >> you can find the links for tonight's click three on our website i'm in my work van, having lunch,
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first elected when he decided, hey, why not join up with a rebel infantry group in afghanistan. the congressman also once famously assigned himself the task of investigating the ties of the oklahoma city bombing, an investigation that reached to the philippines as the congressman learned that terry nichols and 1993 world trade center bombing were once there at the very same time. but this week's episode of global terror private i. brings him to russia where he says he hopes to get to the bottom of why russia's 2011 request did not ultimately result in the u.s. foiling the boston bombing plot. congressman telling abc news, quote, if there was a distrust or lack of cooperation because of that distrust because of the russian intelligence and the fbi, that needs to be fixed. we'll be talking about that. there's no reason for us to be in the cold war attitude anymore. quite enlightened. according to his office, he's scheduled to be joined on this trip by a full bipartisan
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delegation, including a couple of democrats. bill keating of massachusetts, steve cohen, paul cook, and steve king of iowa and michelle bachmann of minnesota. there has been some talk of actually going to the violence prone caucus region to do some first-hand investigation of tamerlan tsarnaev's trip there in 2011. michele bachmann warned in 2011 about the rise of the soviet union. a member of this week's russia delegation has actually already sent one of his congressional staffers to russia to investigate the potential links to extremists there. that staffer apparently brought back valuable intel, mostly from abc news' website. maybe it reads differently if you're reading it from inside russia while conducting a key congressional investigation. but even as they decamp to
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russia to push for more cooperation on security matters, another extremely prominent member of kopg, also someone who likes to dabble in his own brand of freelance foreign policy snuck into a war zone to meet with rebels who are fighting against a government that is being actively supported right now by russia. you're looking at pictures of john mccain in syria. he crossed the border from turkey and stayed in syria for several hours where he met with leaders of the free syrian rebel group. all part of a plan he apparently did not share with his daughter ahead of time. meghan mccain tweeting, quote, nothing quite like finding out via twitter my father secretly snuck into syria and met with rebel leaders. he has been the advocate, which makes sense given his history as the arm the rebels guy. >> we need to get a sanctuary for the free syrian army.
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we need to get them supplies, we need to get them weapons. >> i do believe as we have in the past, we can help facilitate weapons to get to the hands of the libyan military, those who are fighting against qadhafi. >> congress passed a law a couple of years ago, the administration has done nothing. we should help them with arms. >> if it's not a viable option, what if any military option would you think realistic and plausible? >> arming the bosnians, recognizing training has got to be a part of that. >> john mccain's big push this time around has had a real tangible effect on the syrian conflict. european union has lifted its arms embargo against the syrian rebels which mccain tweeted thanks for today. and last week, while everyone was paying attention to breaking weather news, the committee
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passed by a huge margin a bipartisan bill calling for the u.s. to arm certain syrian rebel groups. now, we have no reason to believe that during this secret trip to syria to meet with the rebels that john mccain met with, for instance, the specific syrian rebel who is seen on videotape eating the lung of a dead syrian government soldier, but that is a thing that happened in syria recently. i'm not making it up. i will tell you the story of the rebel leader seen on tape eating the internal or begun of a pro assad soldier after the break. rr was a record collection. no. there was that fuzzy stuff on the gouda. [ both ] ugh! when it came to our plants... we were so confused. how much is too much water? too little? until we got miracle-gro moisture control. it does what basic soils don't by absorbing more water, so it's there when plants need it. yeah, they're bigger and more beautiful. guaranteed. in pots. in the ground. in a ukulele. are you kidding me? that was my idea. with the right soil... everyone grows with miracle-gro.
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in the wake of john mccain sneaking into syria, we're talking about the escalating tension in syria. joining me at the table, an author, journalist and contributor to "news week," and brandon webb, the editor of, devoted to news, and the co-author of a new book. great to have you both here. you were in syria a few months back, and went across the border, how do you do this? how hard is it -- how do you get a u.s. senator across the border? i guess there are parts of the border fairly easy to pass. >> i think part of the borders of syria. they've been arming them, training them there. the free syrian army. turkey has been very out there trying to -- >> influence the direction. >> also, but to get rid of assad. clear since the beginning, we don't want to deal with assad, we're with the free syrian army. to get inside syria today is easy because the government doesn't control -- there's no
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government anymore. there's no control. the only role of the government, the only government presence there is the soldiers that you see on the check points. that's it. >> in an environment like that, i mean we have -- we have what is a civil war, the assad regime obviously has been profoundly brutal and this started as nonviolent resistance, became armed revolt. as someone who has been in war zones, someone who is an operator himself and trained people, what does -- what does influence look like? this is the question i have a hard time. people talk about arming the rebels, training the rebels. we know that's happening from the iranians and it's happening for hezbollah and the saudis and russia and the u.s. what does that look like on the ground? >> the u.s. army is very good at the special forces role of
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unconventional war fare. it's to go in there and train those guys and advise them and arm them and essentially empower them to act. but i think the issue here is, you know, and i respect senator mccain for his service, but i heard him say, oh, let's put arms in the hands of vetted rebels. if we remember back not too long ago in the '80s, osama bin laden was a vetted rebel. and that didn't work out too well with us. we armed the rebels of libya and we have a dead u.s. ambassador. the bigger issue i see is we don't really have a clear foreign policy strategy. and when that situation exists, you can put people on the ground, but it's like being on a soccer field not knowing which way to run to score a goal without a clear cut strategy. >> this idea of vetted rebels was part of this bill that the past in the senate foreign relations committee. the idea being everyone's worried rand paul say we've voted to arm al qaeda.
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everyone saying, no, these rebels are going to be vetted. you've been on the ground there. can you imagine a situation in which arms can stay in some contained group of people? >> there's no contained group of people. if somebody is in denial, delusion in washington, d.c., thinking they're arming a group of nice rebels, they have to look at internet. they don't have to go into syria. they just have to look at where they're exposing, putting themselves on the internet in terms of brutality. one of them, one of the leaders of the rebels opened the heart of the syrian soldiers, ate his heart and took a bite of his liver. these are the people that tomorrow will run syria? we have to ask ourselves today as u.s. citizens, what are our goals in syria to get rid of assad or stop the bloodshed? if you want to stop the bloodshed, then you cannot arm any more anybody. when syrians themselves today asking you to stop. >> okay. well, first, i want to respond to that. i want to get your take on that.
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i want to read the details of this because it's such a dramatic fact i want to be clear on the record here because "time" magazine reported this out. rebels seen in the video posted eating a lung of a dead soldier. explained to "time" what caused him to cut out the organs. i opened the cell phone, we have massive travesties and atrocities being committed. this rebel soldier is a sunni and harbors a sectarian hatred for muslims, the sect of assad. says he has another gruesome video. just so we're clear what the stakes are what's going on the ground. >> and she makes a good point about escalation. if our foreign policy strategy is working in a world, we would live in a much more stable world and a safer place. and you just have to ask yourself do we feel safer today, more safer than we did when or after 9/11? >> well, let me ask this question about arming the rebels. the idea is, you're saying arming the rebels escalates. the logic behind arming or training the rebelling would be the only thing that brings about an end to this is some kind of genuine victory and that's the
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role of if america were to use special forces or at least to get weapons in there, in a battle zone like this, is that kind of thing an illusion. is some kind of definitive victory in the offing? >> i don't think it's an illusion, but again, i go back to -- and special ops has its place, definitely. we don't live in a world where we can sit by with our hands behind our back and not do anything. it's just not the real world we live in. so special operations definitely has its role in the world. but you need to have a very clear strategy and, again, you know, you can point to afghanistan, what we've done there, what we've accomplished. no one could give me a straight answer on what our strategic objective is in afghanistan and how we declare victory. we're going to leave that place a lot worse than when we found it. and libya, syria, it's just -- >> iraq. >> and it's very hard to imagine something coming out of this
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that looks better than what's there. although what's there now is unbelievably gruesome. russia, of course, has been very involved in this and this is a little bit of russia's promise to send air defense system to syria. take a look. >> we think this delivery is a stabilizing factor and such steps in my ways restrains some hot heads from exploring scenarios in which this conflict could be given an international character with participation of outside forces. so that is the -- that's the russian justification for this. you know -- >> russia decided to do this way before. russia agreed on this kind of
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sale to sell s-300 which is very strong defense aircraft. they agreed on 2010 and they did it today. but they were looking in the last two years what's going on. remember, may 7 this year, russia for the first time agreed to negotiate with americans about syria in geneva in june. so mccain being there is actually undermining what -- >> thank you. >> the policy of his government. when you are going towards diplomacy, why you go there and say no, we want to arm them. they're already reluctant to go to the table. and the only solution out there is a diplomatic solution. >> this is an important point. he just just went to try to make this peace conference happen and as -- as implausible it may be that the peace conference will magically bring around an end to the conflict, this undermines that certainly. >> it's about containing violence and containing violence is very simple. stop arming the rebels. the minister of the secretary of state of the russians, he said it clearly. if the americans will keep arming, we will arm, as well. so it's syria's becoming an international struggle for power among americans and others. >> author and journalist and former u.s. navy s.e.a.l. brandon webb whose site you should check out. it's fascinating read. thank you for coming by tonight.
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>> thanks for having us. that's "all in" for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts now. >> good evening, chris. thank you very, very much. and thank you at home for staying with us for the next hour. on friday night, we opened the show with the news of that dramatic and scary bridge collapse on interstate 5 in washington state. that highway bridge collapsing into the river, bringing down a few cars with it. miraculously nobody was killed in that collapse, but there were injuries. that was friday night. then this weekend, there was another highway overpass collapse. this one caused by a chain reaction of sorts. a train derailment sent a bunch of speeding railroad cars slamming into the support pillars of an overpass, a highway overpass bridge and that then collapsed the overpass and sent, again, cars crashing down, in this case under the highway below. again, nobody was killed, but there were injuries. that one happened in chafee, missouri, in the southeastern


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