tv Morning Joe MSNBC June 24, 2013 3:00am-6:01am PDT
i'm glad i asked this question. i got new food ideas. twinkies back in july. we want to know what your guilty pleasures are. >> i think our audience might have eating problems. mark, my guilty pleasure is nutella over more nutella. cereal and stuffed bagel bites and wade, junior's cheese kaik. can't beat new york. and hobby change on twitter that would be blondes. >> take that the way you think it is or blondes, did we decide they're vanilla brownies. >> and lucky charges milk.
we never had sugar in my house. i would eat them breakfast, lunch and dinner. they would be gone in a day. time for "morning joe." >> you're my savior. yes, jesus. yes, jesus. yes, jesus. you're so good. thank you for this opportunity, lord. thank you, jesus. thank you, lord. yes, jesus. that's my king. praise you. praise you, jesus. yes, lord. keep me calm. lord, help me to relax, father. >> take your time now. >> i am.
>> wow. so i'm -- i'm impressed. >> no. >> the wallenda guy is walking across the great canyon, everyone here is like -- >> cold water. >> i just -- >> you wanted him to fall. >> no, i did not. >> you wanted him to fall. >> no. >> i don't want to be told for two hours something is about to happen when it doesn't happen for two hours. >> i don't know. i think evil knievel like going into the snake river canyon, i thought that was pretty cool. >> all right. >> it's amazing. >> pretty amazing stuff. you didn't like the fact they talked about it for five hours. >> don't tell me something down to zero when you're not. i walked away. i watched it on replay. >> i was locked in my house watching. >> look at thomas. take a shot at thomas. if i looked like thomas and somebody asked me what did you do this weekend? i would go on for 45 minutes and just be getting started. >> next topic.
>> barnicle's messing the shot up. if i looked like thomas, you asked me, what did you do this weekend? >> look kind of nice today. >> thank you. >> i would say what did i not do this weekend, my friend. your answer was? >> i watched the documentary on wikileaks. >> i'm going to kill myself. >> really? >> you don't have 87 kids like barnicle and me. they're still hatching in our backyard and you, you sit home and watch a wikipedia. >> we steal secrets. i highly recommend it. >> we're covering which is our top story, good morning, it's monday, june 24th. along with mike barnicle and thomas roberts we have columnist from "the washington post" kathleen parker. i've been waiting for like a year for you, seriously. i've been trying to get you to break all the rules and you won't. you wait for the rules to pan out. i'm going to talk about that. >> massive. >> do not obey the law. we're happy to have you back. >> thank you so much. >> you're boring. thomas is boring. come on. >> we're working on this one.
in just a few minutes the former director of central intelligence james woolsey, joining us to give us his unique insight on how edward snowden got away. >> how did this guy get away? we have inspector clouiseau looking for him? >> how did they not rescind the passport. >> how does that not happen? >> the guy goes to china. we know a few people in china, right? >> we don't want to talk about it. >> take the phone. listen. you know. russia? that doesn't surprise. and now he's going to cuba? >> rescind the passport and you can't go anywhere from hong kong. >> why didn't we do it? >> i don't know. >> you missed one of our best friends. seems to be hopskochg across the globe, visiting all the people who don't like us that much. stay in cuba, seems fidel would love that. >> might fly to cuba or ecuador. he needs to stop by if he's doing this victory tour. he should go to north korea. >> if he goes to cuba at least
he can come home for christmas. >> oh, my god. >> this guy is not a hero on this set, i'm taking it? >> >> i think it's a question. >> well, i think he hurt his standing with rand paul who was upset he went from one tyrannical government to another. it's kind of hard being -- fighting for openness and government and pick the five most tyrannical closed societies on the globe. >> right. right. >> free speech, epicenter of free speech, china, go. >> i'm going to russia. i might go to cuba or venezuela. >> right. >> yeah. >> if you want to make the argument as he's trying to make there's too much secrecy, too much is classified, the best choice, obviously, is to come back here, get a great lawyer, make bail, obviously, and you articulate your case. >> right. right. if you want to be courageous. if you want to prove to the world that you are a man of principle come back and face the country. >> let's give everybody the latest. there's interesting side twists. after formally being charged by
the u.s. government with espionage, edward snowden has fled hong kong and reportedly arrived in moscow. from there he may head to cuba later today and possibly to ecuador where he has requested asylum. after revoking snowden's passport american officials requested hong kong arrest snowden but the government declined saying u.s. documents filed for the request did not comply with hong kong law. "the new york times" is reporting that it was chinese, not hong kong, officials who made the final call to let snowden leave. the paper also quoted intelligence sources close to the u.s. government that say they believe the chinese government, quote, managed to drain the contents of the four laptops in snowden's position. the latest twists outraged u.s. lawmakers from both sides of the aisle. >> i don't know how anybody can view this person as anything other than a criminal. >> i want to get him caught and brought back for trial. >> they should use every legal
avenue we have to bring him back to the united states. if he really believes he did something good he should get on a plane, come back and face the consequences. >> what's infuriating here is prime minister putin of russia, aiding and abetting snowden's escape. the bottom line is very simple, allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways and putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the united states, whether it is syria, iran, and now, of course, with snowden. >> mike, four laptops? >> can you imagine being behind him getting on the shuttle. >> how do we know how they drained them? drained them into what? into little things they can plug in somewhere else. >> and here's the problem, you talk about the guy, you take it he's not a hero on the set. this turns into straight espionage. it goes from being a, quote, whistleblower, that was on even the most shaky of grounds, since to laws were broken, to now,
kathleen, it's just out and out espionage. he's turning over state secrets to the chinese. >> yeah, absolutely. i agree. >> russia and everybody else. >> dianne feinstein said he's guilty of treesen, needs to be in prison or tried for treason. as a reporter for more decades than i want to adpolice we are always such champions of free speech, get it out, transparency. but there is a reason that we have classified documents and classified information by definition isn't supposed to be circulated. how does this person, this 29-year-old decide, he's the one that's going to save us from ourselves. >> yeah. >> it's -- the gran depose. >> noble causes corruption. >> like julian assange, you know, my boring weekend, watched this great documenty. >> you're killing me. >> it encapsulates the mentality. the rules don't apply because i'm going to save the world. >> i'm better. >> with this information.
the best thing for snowden to do, as mike was saying, come back and face what the accusations of what you've done are, prove yourself innocent, go through trial. i mean, otherwise, when we talk about snowden in the way that we are, at least here, it's easy to vilify the guy. it's very easy to vilify him and tarnish whatever his purpose was. >> thomas, isn't there a difference between him leaking to a newspaper and getting some information out there, and going -- the difference between that and flying to china and letting them drain the contents of -- >> that's the whole thing. that's why snowden needs to -- >> it's gotten worse. >> face the music back here. >> right. >> figure out exactly what he's done. he's created a great debate for all of us to have, ones we were not willing to have because primarily we didn't know this was going on. >> right. >> it's created a great debate for us to have and we need to own up because this is our life path 9/11. >> it's comfortable and hard to
have a clear position on this. >> we could debate this last week. that's debatable. >> true. >> i understand. the nsa documents, very debatable. and impassioned people on both sides, younger people wanting this debate to happen. when a guy goes to china, turns over his laptops, jammed with nsa secrets, that goes from an intellectual debate to just out and out espionage against this government. treason. >> you know, yeah, you're not going to china if you're seeking a country infused with a sense of liberty and openness. certainly not going to china. but it gets me, at least, back to the baseline of this question. i mean talk about rep paer toal backgrounds, how did snowden get into booz allen, how did he get hired? how did he get access to all of this? how does this happen? and is this -- my instinct is there's still so much about this story we do not know. >> yeah. >> like who -- who is running
snowden? >> right. right. >> how does he get to hong kong? >> right. >> that's a reporter thinking there. who's behind snowden. what's going on there? there's more than we know for sure. >> "the guardian" newspaper's glenn greenwald, the main conduit through which snowden had leaked his information was asked by dade gregory about his role. >> to the extent you have aided and abetted snowden even in his current movements why shouldn't you, mr. greenwald, be charged with a crime? >> i think it's pretty extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies. the assumption in your question is completely without evidence. the idea that i aided and abetted him. if you want to embrace that theory, that means every journalist in the united states who works with their sources and receives information, is a criminal. it's that climate that has become so menacing in the united
states. >> the question of who is a journalist may be up to debate with regard to what you're doing and anybody who's watching this, understands i was asking a question. the question was raised by law makers. i'm not embracing anything. i take your point. >> right. it was a question, though. >> why didn't you answer the question. i thought that's what journalists did. it's outrageous you would suggest i'm aiding and abetting, i'm not. but if he's just getting information and putting it in the newspaper that's one thing. if he's a much bigger part of this story, kathleen, that's quite another. >> we have to be careful. you don't prosecute reporters for doing their job. >> you do not. glenn and i have had positive relationship which is sort of a strange thing, but we both share similar concerns. >> i know glenn. >> i saw him on the set, you know, mika asked a question, when people ask him questions, and he knocks their heads off. it slijs, you know -- you can ask questions of people without
them becoming -- >> it's an interesting role reversal for him because he has -- he spent many years being a media critic and i've fallen in his sights a time or two. suddenly it's his turn to have to answer his peers. i don't know what his larger role is except that he does seem very defensive of -- >> i was going to say, i'm not speculating what his role is. i don't know the basis of the question, mike, but, you know, somebody asks me if i'm aiding and abetting an international fugitive, of course i'm not. >> david asked the question that has been asked in other forms for a week now. i mean, glenn is an advocacy journalist. we understand that. the answer it to the question is a simple no, of course not. >> of course not. >> especially if it keeps getting raised. he is in a fascinating position and i've given glenn great credit because he went after the bush administration but he's going after the obama administration. he's a very end independent
person. he's been defensive in the interviews i've seen which have been disappointing. having him on the show when he was here in person, having positive interviews with him. >> we've seen glenn before. he's an interesting character and prickly at times, but this was an interesting exchange where it was like what comes first, the chicken or the egg. this is about good journalism, creating the debate that we have, but there is a point you have to evolve the conversation into at what point is this truly dangerous. we know that -- again, i get back to my documentary, michael hayden was in it, former cia, nsa. >> you're killing me. >> he says, we steal secrets. our country is in the business of stealing secrets. that's not up for debate. we do it. now it's just out on the table a and we're talking about it. >> we have james woolsey coming up and talking more about this. lots of other news to cover as well, including opening statements in the trial of george zimmerman, which will be starting at 9:00 a.m. this morning. over the weekend the prosecution
suffered a potential blow to its case when the judge barred testimony from audio experts who claimed trayvon martin can be heard screaming on a 911 call moments before he was fatally shot. judge debra nelson said the methods used to identify the voices on the kaurl are not reliable. however, she will allow the 911 recording to be played during the trial, opening the door for witnesses to identify the person crying for help. zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. he's pleading not guilty, claiming he shot martin in self-defense. kathleen parker, your latest column talks about this case entitled "george zimmerman's jury of peers" and you right in part this what makes the six-member jury interesting other than the head snapping composition, it forces to the floor all the implications we try to avoid, do gender, race, ethnicity, age, sexual orientation and so on matter when it comes to judging one another? we like to think not, yet admit
it, the reason the all-women jury made headlines is because it raises those very questions. we trust juries because there is no better alternative. by our consent to the process we are putting our faith in the better angels of man's nature, in our radical diverse proudly multi cultural nation it isn't clear whether a jury of one's peers is possible. whatever the outcome, the zimmerman trial will force us to confront our own biases, a necessary step toward the aspiration we call blind justice. we should note that george zimmerman has sued nbc universal the parent company of this show for defamation. with that, kathleen, the jury issue is fascinating. >> it was so interesting to me. the headline popped off the page when it said all-women jury. and i thought -- >> what did it say to you? >> it just -- it raised the question, why does that matter? why are we interested that it's all women? we say the same thing if it were
all men? it does mean something. there's a suggestion there when you an all-women panel, then something may not be just right. that then leads to all the other questions that you so beautifully read, is how much -- how trusting are we that we can have a jury of our peers? we are -- we are such a diverse country. my column doesn't land on an answer because i don't think columnists always have to know the answer. i think it's sometimes interesting to get people toing -- to think. what i always learn from my column the next day when i read my mail, which i do, a lot of columnists -- a lot of columnists don't but i learn something. >> no, that's interesting. >> i hit delete as soon as i realize it's hate mail, probably 70% of the time. but i learn from my readers, many of whom are thoughtful and educated and -- but what i
learned interest this was disconcerting. so many people who wrote said, you know, zimmerman is guilty, martin asked for it, and you could tell clearly how this broke down. it broke down black and white. >> oh, boy. >> it was very disturbing. kind of like, you know, made you obviously think about the o.j. simpson trial. >> mike? >> i was stunned at the composition of the jury, wondering every big trial -- a lot of trials, not just big tril trials, they have jury consultants, the lawyers. >> sure. >> what was going through the minds of the jury consultants to select an all-female panel of jurors. >> maybe the alternatives were worse. >> i know. >> there were 40 people. the pool was 40. and so they had to have eliminated, you know -- i can't imagine what the conflict was, but what was striking is two of the women identify themselves as animal savers, that's their hobbies, i'm one of those people
too which doesn't mean i couldn't send somebody to prison but nonetheless that's odd out of six people, a full third of the jury, self-identifies that way. and then one of the others had been through the judicial system but felt she had been treated fairly. five are white, one is i think hispanic. it was -- when i wrote the column it wasn't clear. they hadn't identified her. >> how many are mothers? >> not sure about that. that's the most important question. >> why can't you -- i mean that makes a difference. >> yeah. >> doesn't it? >> certainly. >> absolutely. >> it's a fascinating column. >> i'm sorry. why aren't there african-americans on the jury? >> that's a good question. >> come on. come on. i mean seriously. >> now the biggest question is, is george zimmerman going to testify and how will that resonate with this package of jurists. we've seen with jodi arias who claimed self-defense how her testimony went and we've seen what happened in a high profile
florida case, casey anthony who did not testify and she was acquitted. but the legal experts say when you claim self-defense, you need to get up and testify. >> you got to say. >> this tape recording is problematic to me. you're going to listen to somebody screaming and decide on that basis who was screaming? and does that necessarily mean that person was in greater distress than the other person who isn't heard screaming? how do we know who it is? is a 29-year-old -- does a 29-year-old sound that much different from a teenage -- >> you talk about -- you talk about the questions that are going to be raised. i mean, if you have a jury in a racially charged case that doesn't have a single african-american on there, you're just setting yourself up for failure and recrimination, regardless. >> and appeal. >> immediately. that's what's so shocking to me about it. >> well, one of the questions that usually gets asked is, do
you trust or distrust the police. you know, do you have an adversarial relationship with authority. >> right. >> maybe a lot of people were eliminated that way. if i said yes to that, you're gone. >> wow. >> we're going to be covering this starting at 9:00 eastern time here on msnbc. coming up, on "morning joe," we'll have an exclusive interview with congressman paul ryan. he'll be with us here on set to discuss edward snowden, the immigration bill and why the republican house leadership couldn't pass the farm bill. also, senator kirsten gillibrand will join the conversation and an important update on america's favorite snack food. what are we doing here? >> this is mika bait. >> that's bait. for the return of the twinkie. okay. and the top stories in the politico playbook. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. it's monday.
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time to take look at the morning papers. >> it is. >> starting with the "new york times" jeffrey skilling had his sentence reduced ten years after reaching a deal with a judge. he was sentenced to 24 years in prison but now skilling is appealing because of an error made by the judge during his initial trial in 2006. he could be out of prison as early as 2017. "star ledger" body of actor james gandolfini returned to new jersey on sunday on a private flight from rome. a spokeswoman from hbo confirmed his funeral will take place at the cathedral church of st. john the divine in manhattan this week. he died of a heart attack while on vacation in italy last week. he was 51. the "usa today" famous chef paula deen's 11-year run with
the food network is coming to an end this month when her contract expires. chose not to renew her contract after legal deposition revealed deen used racial slurs and tolerated racial jokes at her restaurant. she tried to clean it up, and only made matters worse. >> it was awful. >> seriously? talk about a runaway beer truck. she's currently being sued by a former employee. >> that was a mess. >> horrible. >> l.a. "time" monster's university, pixar's prequel to "monsters inc" pulled in $82 million. this marks the 14th consecutive film from pixar to lead the box office on the weekend it premiered. the second highest opening ever for pixar behind their 2010 film "toy story 3" which drew $110 million. >> now a story that is causing great controversy. >> yes. >> just all across -- >> this dog is not ugly. >> the set, it's shocking.
>> cutest thing i've seen. >> "the baltimore sun" selected its ugliest dog of the year. wally the beagle, who's part beagle. >> why would you say he's ugly. >> wally beat 29 other contenders. many think -- >> i love him. >> they don't think that dog is ugly at all. >> it's not ugly. anyone here think he's ugly? >> no. >> yes. >> thomas does. >> mike thinks all dogs are ugly. >> the one on the right is ugly. >> that's a cute little dog. >> i think it was rigged. >> don't be mad if i bring up other people's dogs that might be uglier. "the new york post" twinkies are returning to a store near you. on july 15th. why? hostess which filed for bankruptcy a few months ago is up and running again thanks to new owners who paid $410 million for the brand. >> with us, the chief white house correspondent for politico mike allen he's here with the morning playbook. what's happening in
massachuset massachusetts? one day left before the massachusetts senate elections. are we looking at another case of a republican shocking a sdm in the state? -- a democrat in the state? >> no scott brown here. gabriel gomez. congressman ed markey soon will be senator ed markey. we've talked on the show about how maybe there could be another upset here like there was with scott brown in a low turnout special election. it's possible for republicans to do things in a blue state that they wouldn't be able to do if everyone were turning out in a bigger election. but gabriel gomez never got it going and the final polls have congressman marquee up as much as 20 points. now with that low turnout you can't be sure what it's going to look like but all indications are he's going in strong. ed markey. a big reason for this, republican outside money never
came in here. they calculated that he was never going to hold this seat when he had to run again in regular election and so they figured it was short-term money not well spent. also, gomez got on the wrong side of women's issues, something scott brown has found a way to navigate. >> and mike, politico found a fascinating breakdown of what went wrong behind the farm bill. take us through it. >> yeah. david rogers, who followed the farm bill when most other people were ignoring it, says that it really shows how the -- some of the basic consensuses that there used to be in the congress have broken down. a big point here is, this was the one place that congress was going to be able to actually save money since the sequester. this was a conservative bill. it cut back on the food stamp program. but it just turned out to be not conservative enough. you had people playing games, switching their votes, and so
it's -- it was a chance to reform a program, save money. big bipartisan majority in the senate, had passed this. the senate shot it down. this was one of several places this year that senate has shown it can work when the house hasn't. one other note from capitol hill, vice president biden on friday said that five senators have come to him and talked about switching their vote on gun control. he says the dynamics have changed and i can see them finding a way to bring that up again. harry reid said he would bring it up again if he knew he was going to win. vice president biden thinks they're moving towards that. >> that's big news. >> the vice president is just -- just said, people's polls internally at home just keep collapsing and they want to figure out a way to get out -- from being against a background check for criminals and terrorists and people who are mentally disturbed. >> hope they could get that done. that would restore some hope in the whole process. >> we'll see. >> the immigration bill is coming up next. i'll tell you, i think you have
another case you pass something in the senate that doesn't get through the house. we'll see. mike allen, thank you so much. >> have great week. thank you. >> still ahead on "morning joe," patriots owner robert kraft accused vladimir putin of stealing a super bowl ring. putin says he has a solution to the problem. >> all righty. >> tell you about it when we come back. maybe he'll send back a finger of edward snowden. stay away from putin. dangerous man. >> hard drives. for the first time... ever... she let him plan the vacation. "off the beaten path"... he said. "trust me"... he implored.
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live look at the white house. beautiful day in washington, d.c., at 34 past the hour. joining us now from washington, chairman of the foundation for defense of democracy's venture partner with lex capital and former director of the central intel jaens agency, ambassador james woolsey. great to have you on the program this morning. >> good to be with you. >> always good to have you, mr. ambassador. a lot of questions, we don't know where to start. first, first of all, we're just surprised that our government hasn't been able to get this guy, snowden. what's been your take on miss magical mystery tour over the past weekend from one tyrannical government to another? >> well, hong kong and ecuador are learning from russia, which is if you insult the united states and don't follow
international norms with respect to it, nothing happens. and so they're behaving appropriately. nothing is happening. >> yeah. nothing is happening. how much damage has mr. snowden done in your opinion to america's national security? >> well, it's a little hard to assess from outside but i would say substantial. because what is now been sent out to the terrorists as well as everybody else is how these programs generally operate. and so they know what to pay attention to, what to -- general procedures to follow. it's hard to sort of zero in on any one specific. but it's very damaging when an opponent that you're trying to get information from, as we try to get information from their communications, terrorist communications overseas, knows that you're doing it and how generally you're doing it. it helps them a lot. >> obviously watching secretary
of state kerry, the president, everybody involved with our foreign policy, navigating tense discussions with russia and vladimir putin over the issue of syria and other hot spots around the world. senator schumer has expressed concern about our relationship with putin being damaged here. do you believe that this could cause further damage or increase the tenseness of the relationship with vladimir putin and what do you think we should do? >> well, putin quotes stalin from time to time about if you're weak, you will be beaten. and his general attitude is, don't be weak and that's fine. he's not really doing anything else except avoiding being weak except trying to throw his weight around on the united states. he's not cooperating in anything substantial. there's no risk in it for him. he doesn't have anything negative happen when he bavs
that way with us. the kind of cooperative relationship we had from time to time in the past with say gorbachev, is just not here. >> you say he doesn't have anything negative happen when he misbehaves or acts this way. what should we do? >> at the very least, the president could make a strong statement or two. we haven't even seen that. and i think russia should not be the object now of unilateral concessions by the u.s. the president announced major reduction in american ballistic missiles recently, and russia didn't get rid of its tactical ballistic missiles when we got rid of virtually all of ours back years ago in the bush administration. so they're basically holding on to what they have and not reciprocating as any part of reasonable deal.
whenever we try to do something to protect ourselves like improve ballistic missile defense in europe, putin gets very hostile and talks about how this is a real affront to russia and a problem for russia. he is almost impossible to work with. >> looks that way, kathleen. >> mr. ambassador, kathleen parker. i wanted to ask in terms of what has happened with snowden, what is more damaging to the united states, what was actually revealed or the fact that he was able to secure this information and distribute it? >> i suppose the substance because that's what will help the terrorists keep us from connecting the dots. you remember after 9/11, everybody said the intelligence community didn't connect the dots. that's part of what's been going on with respect to particularly going after the terrorists here and foreign intelligence collection, and that -- the way we were connecting them is now
out there in the hands of the terrorists. so they know a lot more about how to plan, how to use telephones and the like. that's the main problem. >> james woolsey, thank you so much. we appreciate you being on the show this morning. >> good to be with you. >> coming up on "morning joe," a landmark week for the supreme court as the justices hand down decisions on a number of blockbuster cases including gay marriage and the voting rights act. people williams will be here to break it all down. chuck todd with the latest reaction from the white house on edward snowden and up next, my must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. kids are like sponges.
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welcome back to "morning joe." >> it's sfwhufl it's gorgeous. i feel like taking a boat. >> looks better now. louis wakes me up at 3:00 a.m. and gives me this little crabbing boat in the harbor at 3:00 a.m. this morning. >> was it fun fishing? >> i just want to sleep actually. it's beautiful. >> yes. >> i mean it's beautiful. but you don't want to be there at 3:00 in the morning. >> maybe take your boating dates to a later time in the day. >> i'm thinking that. maybe take our show to a later time. >> to the boat. >> where are the crabs? >> well. >> new york harbor. never been at 3:00 a.m. in the morning? >> i have not. >> only time they bite. >> i was at home watching documentaries preparing for the show. >> that's mayes take. >> okay. "new york times" -- >> the great disconnect. >> this is -- >> this is fascinating op-ed you have selected. >> let me read it. >> go ahead. >> the disconnect between the white house's priorities and those of the people is the most
serious threat to the current liberal ascendants. president obama has a good chance to be remembered as the liberal reagan but the reagan recovery was far better for most americans than this one has been. but so far, republicans have mostly used liberalisms relative weakness as an excuse for not moving much at all. sticking with an jen da. their obligation should be to address both parties most conspicuous failure and to actually meet the voters where they are. >> that was -- it was a great op-ed. that wasn't the part. he brings up in this op-ed that kathleen parker, that pew took a poll when barack obama was inaugurated and the issues that were the most important and at the very bottom were guns, climate change, and background checks. no ideology here. that was just the american
people's bottom priorities. what was number one? >> jobs. >> number two, jobs. number three, jobs. the acela corridor we talk about them all the time, i'm guilty of talking about them all the time. guns, climate change, immigration, nobody outside of the acela corridor are as obsessed on this and that's what barack obama is focusing on. >> he is now, jobs now. first -- >> no. he's focused on climate change tomorrow. >> oh. >> we're talking about immigration. >> yeah. >> in the past we've been talking about guns. >> are those entirely unrelated to jobs? >> yes, they are. and this is the thing we talked about it on the first term. democrats say haels care. no. i use this time and time again. if i go into a store and want a tie and a guy tries to sell me a hat, i say thank you very much, but i want a tie.
he tries to sell me a tie -- >> i would totally buy the hat. >> sell you the hat. i came for the tie. we keep hearing this is about jobs. no jobs are about jobs. yet, we are talking -- again, not just the president who's insulated, but the whole purpose of the great disconnect, this op-ed, is the fact that this president is not focusing on what america is focusing on. >> he never has. as you say, the top priority was jobs, jobs, jobs. and he went for health care. that was not the -- that was not number one on anybody's mind. he focused all of his energy on health care in the first term. only now he's getting around to focusing on jobs. the president has always been i think legacy driven. he wanted to create this health care package to establish that for all time as his big kahuna and, you know, the guns issue, of course, is just taking advantage of a crisis. i mean it's -- we had this horrible incident and now it's
an opportunity, trust me on this, this is taking advantage of a moment to get gun legislation through. and by the way -- the administration -- >> you don't support background checks. >> getting shot on a corner to get gun legislation done. >> they didn't push it through until the sandy hook thing came along. i know for a fact -- >> don't you think if a congress person can be assassinated at the grocery store don't we need to have that conversation? >> of course we need to have that conversation, but the point is, this administration wants to put gun legislation through, just as they want to put health care legislation through, and they know that this is a process and it's -- they're just -- the only reason -- they're pushing it, pushing it, even knowing possibly it's not going through. now we have these new senators that say they want to change their vote. >> kathleen, how hard is it to support background checks that 90% of americans support. >> i've been watching your show and know how you feel about that. >> it changes people's minds. >> i think background checks are
good. >> i think background checks are good. >> that is not great disconnect with america. i want to say that after sandy hook, background checks are not a great disconnect with america. because 90% of americans support it. we can take that one off the table. >> you put them in the categories -- >> general gun legislations in general, right. >> gun legislation. i think most people agree that background checks are appropriate. and under all circumstances. i don't see why you would draw the line ney anymore. >> flinched and let you see if you can explain it, because you made it sound like it was a negative thing, that the president was taking advantage of a moment. i would say i would be horrified if he didn't. >> yes. i'm a little restrained by information that i'm -- anyway, let's just say this, that -- i think the white house is even aware -- i told a member of the administration and i think i may have written it too, your problem here is that your best
argument for gun legislation didn't really pertain to the circumstances at sandy hook. you know, that was the disconnect. it would have been much better had she said look, we know background checks would not have made a difference in this case. >> in that one. >> we still think it's an important step to take and here's why. >> i saw it as it was the best they could do in the climate that exists with the nra's role in our stoets. >> let's move forward, thomas, to immigration where that's an issue very important for the president, very important for people in washington, and yet, as this op-ed says, that's also not at the top of american's list. it's always jobs. >> sure. we're all going to think about our own wallets at a time in the country i'm looking at the market over mika -- >> really? >> yeah. it's over there. see, we're going to start out the day, close to 15,000. the markets are good. people care about the money in their wallets. but we have an immigration issue
in the country that the republicans you would think want to get this done. >> that's the question here. if the republicans do want to get it done, i don't think it's going to happen. i don't think americans are going to be running down main street in middle america tearing their hair out of their heads if it doesn't happen. >> you get the feeling that we're in a different period of time in this country's cultural/political history in that we have a future-oriented presidency because of who he is and how he got there, and he is interested in his legacy in the future, but we also have in this country right now a huge number of people and i peg them between the ages of 50 and 65, who think that they have lost their country in so many ways. i lost the job i had for 20 years, i lost my house, i lost so much. you know, who's going to help me get what i had ten years ago and nobody can but nobody is talking to them about it. >> right. >> it's really interesting. >> that's a significant voting block. >> yeah. >> still ahead on "morning joe,"
congressman paul ryan joins the set in a few minutes. first, vladimir putin says he doesn't remember anyone named robert kraft or a super bowl ring. >> that's hurtful. >> i will kill him. >> news you can't use is next. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪
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oh, yes. it's time. >> great. >> thomas, this is for you now. >> documentaries. >> you're to make this look as useless as possible. >> i'm going to sell this baby. >> russian president vladimir putin has an offer on the table to end the discussion of the super bowl ring he allegedly stole. >> why are we blaming him? >> from the patriots owner. he has a good explanation here. that's robert kraft on the left. kraft says he was showing him the ring back in 2005 when putin put it in his pocket. >> sticky fingers putin. >> took it. >> putin says, quote, i remember neither mr. kraft or -- i can't do this. or a ring. >> i'll remember neither kraft nor a ring. >> but if it is so precious to kraft and his team i have a proposal. was that good? >> that's good. >> that's okay. >> putin says -- i'm a muddled -- my muddled accent. ask a russian jeweller to make something really good, noticeable, so that it is clear it is an expensive thing with
good metal and a stone that will be passed from generation to generation in the team. >> first of all he doesn't remember. >> i would have -- >> ten events like that happen in a day. >> i love that. >> if someone held out a ring like that, when it was a foreign leader to -- i would -- >> so heavy it fell in his pocket. >> mika says her father would have done the same thing. >> kraft told me the ring is in some museum in moscow. it's in a museum. >> it was a gift. >> can we show that picture again. >> putin wouldn't notice extra weight in his pocket. >> the answer is here both people, both putin and kraft are mistake. murdoch took the ring. >> i think so. >> let me tell you something. kraft pushes it too hard he's going to find himself in an antique coffin. >> but there is one for sale. >> which begs the question, do you happen to have the story about antique coffins? >> who isn't looking for an antique coffin. an iowa man put this up for sale on craig's list. still bones in that baby. >> that is -- >> the owner says the remains have been there a long time
donated by a doctor in the 1880s. it's illegal so you know for future reference to sell unidentified human remains. >> are you kidding? >> once that gets resolved. >> cottage industry -- >> you can have that coffin for $12,000. >> joe and i have been on craigslist doing that for two years now. >> can you sell identified bones? >> mike and i find that -- that it's better for the imagination if you put unidentified human bones on craigslist. >> supposed to be useless and interesting. that's not. >> drives the price up. >> yeah. >> i'll try again tomorrow. >> that didn't work. >> nobody told me it was against the law. >> congressman paul ryan joins the table coming up. >> bet he sorry is he. >> we have a lot to talk about including what to do with edward snowden, immigration reform and how the republican house -- >> they messed up the farm bill last week. "morning joe" straight ahead. i'm jennifer hudson.
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what's your policy? ♪ to the extent that you have aided and abetted snowden even in his current movements why shouldn't you, mr. greenwald, be charged with a crime. >> i think it's extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies. the assumption in your question, david, is completely without evidence. the idea that i've aided and abetted him in any way. if you want to embrace that
theory it means every investigate stive journalist in the united states who works with their sources and receives classified information is a criminal and it's those theories and precisely that climate that has become so menacing in the united states. >> the question of who is a journalist may be up to debate with regard to what you're doing and anybody who is watching this, understands i was asking a question. i'm not embracing anything. but obviously i take your point. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and kathleen parker still with us. joining the table, republican representative from wisconsin and chairman of the budget committee, congressman paul ryan. >> so we're watching that clip coming in and i'm just saying, oh, just stop. glenn and david are going back and forth. stop being so defensive. you're irritating when you're so defensive. and paul said, which one are you talking about? come on! >> you know what he does to prep for his segment today?
>> pushupses. >> that definitely. >> px 45. >> 90. >> thanks very much. >> what did you do on youtube this weekend? >> i went last night on youtube and watched -- >> russell brand -- >> i'm going to give the same kind of interview, same kind of treatment. >> suggest that mika is often lating and you might. >> oh, my god. >> set you up for that. >> i don't think that's going to happen. >> thank you, alex. really? >> you were out this weekend and your friends are bothering you about this, mika. >> you're talking to me is th? >> yes. everyone thinks i messed up royal itly. >> i told bradley cooper i didn't like his movie and he responded well. russell, a little different. i'm sorry. i'm me. don't follow russell brand. >> played a role -- >> i know who he is now and slijs a nice person. >> had -- he seems like a nice person. >> it was great tv. >> that's what mika was trying to do. >> i thought it was great
strategy. you managed to let him showcase himself, what a good hostess should do. >> and it was interesting, he's never met anyone who doesn't know who he is. >> paul, why don't you -- you're going to play the role of russell brand. >> no. we're going to ask him about the farm bill. >> insult my politics -- >> but i insult you -- >> you're candid about it. >> stop. >> how is it going? like this snowden guy, he's flying all over the place, vladimir putin -- >> he broke the law. he's going to these authoritarian regeejs. >> our enemies. >> he broke the law. put aside the program, and look at what this man did. >> right. >> look what he did to violate national security. >> right. >> jeopardize people's lives. and now he's fleeing to these authoritarian regimes. >> how does that help our relationship with china? we asked china to hold them, they didn't.
>> it complicates all the countries he's going to. put aside whether or not the program works or not. by the way, we have divided government and you had both republicans and democrats, not my particular committee, but people on various committees of jurisdiction, looking at this program. the program is more than i thought was occurring. we can ask a question, which we need to. >> right. >> about the patriot act and whether or not this is within the scope of the patriot act, the spirit and letter of the law. that's entirely different than whether or not we have a 28-year-old, one-year booz allen contractor who gets a thumb drive. >> oh, my god. >> and leak it. >> that to me is incredible. >> how -- >> that's the question. >> the bar so people can get this kind of information and leak this. >> i thought it was bad enough, mike, when they gave me a security clearance. >> you got elected to congress though. >> look how it just keeps getting worse. >> in addition to that, you get in a security clearance, the -- in addition to the breadth of
the program that was revealed i don't think anybody was surprised the nsa is doing stuff like this, but the width and the breadth of it was surprising. but the number of consultants. >> that's right. >> involved on a national security -- >> what is going on there? >> that's right. i think that's -- so forget about -- put aside for a second the program itself. lots of questions need to be asked. lots of questions need to be answered. and then congress needs to make an informed decision on how to proceed. how many people are getting access to this. how many people get access to the actual data, access in such a way they can do these types of things. leaking it to the media. that to me raises lots kwf es. >> how does it make us look to other countries. don't we look like we're not in control of our own game. >> we're a free and open society. it shows we're a free society. in other ways, it makes us look, you know, it's a keystone operation. >> so -- >> and it's embarrassing in one sense and another sense is, focus on making sure this guy is
brought to justice, the countries harboring them understand the consequences and understand with countries we have extradition treaties with they have to honor those treaties. >> we were talking about the op-ed yesterday, the great disconnect. i want to read the relevant portion. this january's president obama began his second term the pew research center asked americans to list their priorities for 2013. huge majority cited jobs and the economy. more modest majorities cited fighting poverty and tax hikes. at the bottom of the list were gun control, immigration, and climate change. now of course i've talked -- i don't know if you know -- once or twice about gun control, about background checks and i don't think that is -- if we were talking about that, that is a great disconnect. 90% want background checks. >> that's at the bottom of the list. >> that's at the bottom of the list. i migration is at the bottom of the list, climate change. and that's what this administration and by extension
of washington's focusing on. >> i didn't need to read "the new york times" to know that. i spent last fall crisscrossing the country talking to americans. i represent wisconsin. that's all i hear. i did a series of town hall meetings, jobs jobs jobs. i talked about immigration, because i think we have a broken system that needs fixing. the top of everyone's list is how can i make ends meet. >> do you support the -- >> i agree with the thrust of that column. >> you brought up immigration. do you support marco's approach on immigration. >> we're going to do a different approach in the house. i agree with the need to reform the immigration system and we need a workable system. legal immigration is a good thing for america when we are honoring the rule of law. >> legalization not citizenship. >> that's right. >> and the united states -- >> when it comes to citizenship can we just not say it right here right now. i mean, there's not going to be an immigration bill that is going to grant amnesty to provide citizenship.
>> no. >> to -- legalization yes, citizenship -- >> there's lots of confusions and confusing terminology used here. at the end of the day, if everybody else in line who came here legally and did everything right is through the system and a person then after an exhaustive person, probationary period, green card, not consuming government benefits wants to get in line like anybody else, we should allow that person to do that that's person easterning the right to become a citizen. >> they're not going to jump to the front of the line? nobody is talking about pushing them in the front of the line. >> in the house. >> marco is not talking about jumping in front of the line. >> does marco -- because it's -- it depends on what language he's speaking in but sometimes he talks about citizenship and sometimes he talks about legalization. are we talking about citizenship or legalization. >> this gets muddled. here's what we're trying to work on. we want to do this methodically, we don't want to rush anything. get it right. secure the border first and foremost. in this post-9/11 environment
it's critical. we don't know if people overstay their vee sas and leave or not. >> i'm in the house. i supported the house legislation we passed back in 2006 to better secure the border. i have also supported comprehensive fix to immigration because the thing is broken. we say if you break the law you get a reward. follow the law you're frustrated. we have to have a workable legal system. we have to secure our border and immigration good for our economy. good for economic growth if we get it right. >> listening, you and joe, highly critical of the administration's list of priorities. and you talk about working on this in the house, the immigration reform. tell us what happened with the farm bill because it really doesn't matter what the priorities are if nothing can get done. >> well, i personally didn't have a -- i didn't support the farm bill. i think it was a missed opportunity to reform a lot of government programs that are bloated. it has a lot of corporate welfare. >> do you agree something dysfunctional happened?
>> they passed the votes and didn't deliver the votes they promised. our leaders brought the bill to the floor based on the commitment that democrats from the agricultural districts made and during consideration of this bill on the floor they reneged on the commitment of the 40 votes they promised and the bill went down. when in divided government and trying to bring bipartisan legislation to the floor, you have to keep your word on whether you're going to vote for something or not before this bill came to the floor said i wasn't going to vote for it. they knew that. some democrats said we will vote for it. then after the bill was brought to the floor, they changed their minds and the bill went down. you can't govern that way if people don't keep their word on what they're going to do. >> only democrats who reneged on their promise? >> i think the republicans produced the votes -- >> you said you weren't going to vote for the farm bill? why would you not have voted for the farm bill. >> i think the farm bill should be there foir family farmers. i don't think they should be subsidizing people earning
hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. as a safety net for the family farmer. a crop insurance system that protects people from catastrophic losses but we shouldn't be playing what i call corny capitalism through any sector of our economy let alone agriculture and did not reform the food stamp program in a way that desperately needs reformed. >> why insert a food stamp program which comparing -- >> good question. >> comparatively speaking the billions in the farm aid bill, to pay to farmers not to grow crops, i mean the food stamps amount is minimal. why insert that into that bill? >> that's a -- we should separate food stampps from what we call the title. 83% of the farm bill is food stamps. when you think farm bill you think farmers. 83% of that spending is the food stamp program. we should treat the food stamp program on its own as its separate program and reform it. >> why don't we? >> because the people who are for food stamps and aggies, those who try to merge these
things because they have a vote coalition that keeps the status quo going. what i've said, if you want to change the status quo which i do and the farm programs and the food stamp program separate the two and focus on them separately. those who are into the status quo don't want that to happen and that's the problem we have. >> how do we get people back to work? >> we don't chase down this agenda that frustrates jobs. we're trying to focus on jobs. we tax american businesses a lot higher than our foreign competitors tax theirs, whether a big corporation or successful small business. as of january the top effective marginal tax rate 44.6%. most of the businesses in wisconsin, nine out of ten file their taxes as individuals. so we are cranking up tax rates on subsesful manufacturers and small businesses, where most of our jobs come from. that to me screams for tax reform. take the corny capitalism out of the tax code, stop picking winners and losers, i can tell you both parties do this, clean up the mess in the tax code, lower tax rates.
get this deficit under control. fix our entitlements. show we're not going to have a debt crisis like that which is plaguing europe. it takes pressure off our monetary policy which we're witnessing these days. those things create jobs. look at the energy. talk about carbon. he wants to do another cap and trade scheme or something like that things summer. that basically makes it harder for us to become an oil and gas independent country which if we put our mind to it we can become within a decade. >> kathleen? >> i want to switch gears. we're facing another debt ceiling event at the end of the summer, september, october, or so. what's the -- >> probably later than that. >> what's the conversation going to be? tax reform or is it going to be entitlement reform. >> both. our emphasis we're clear with the president about this. every time i meet with somebody from the administration or patty murray my democratic counter part what we want to achieve is that which we believe gets us jobs, economic growth. we think tax and entitlement reform are critical. just for those people who are
keynesians who don't like the idea of immediate spending balances, entitlement reform is the out years, the way we've proposed doesn't affect current seniors. let's nail down some entitlement reforms that gets this debt under control, that will help us grow the economy today. because it snows future is more reliable and stable and let's clean up this tax system. those are the things that we're saying we want as part of a comprehensive budget agreement which is what we're shooting for this fall. we'll see if we get it. >> he looks good. >> he does. >> had a rough year. >> are you happy? >> i am a happy person. you know why? because i married the love of my life and three great kids. that keeps me centered and happy. no matter what they throw at me i'm a happy person. >> a lot has been thrown at you. one word answers. best thing working in congress, worst thing. >> you can make a difference in people's lives. worst thing, a lot of people lie. >> yeah. don't they? lie. >> you see that a lot. >> look you right in the eye and
lie to you. >> you know they're doing it. that's what drives me crazy. >> final softball question why did you guys lose this last year? what happened? >> i think we need to broaden our appeal. they did a good job of describing us and defining us to something we were never -- we aren't. and so when your nominee comes out in may with no money and they can [ inaudible ] on him for four months before he gets the ability to get his campaign resources to define himself it's hard to recover from that. at the end of the day between 200 and 300,000 votes if they went the other way between new hampshire, virginia, ohio and florida, we would have won this election. >> yeah. >> so it was a close election. huge stakes. and that's what's distressing. knowing what we were going to do and how different this is from what we're doing. we were going to focus on jobs. we were going to focus on growth on getting this budget under control. one of the reasons mitt picked me. to see we're not doing those things to me is distressing.
that means get back at work, brush yourself off, stop sulking and get at it. >> the republican party, do you think we're getting it? we've lost five out of six elections with the popular vote. do you think we're starting to get it we need to be conservative ideologically but a bit more moderate tem mentally. all of flame throwers and bomb tossers, i mean didn't help you out on the campaign trail when you were responding to what -- >> senate candidates were -- >> were saying and then what people sometimes on radio and tv were saying. that made your job harder, didn't it? >> i'm a conservative who believes our founding principles are the key principles for the day and the best if applied to our problems to solve problems. and we need to have that kind of temperament. this is why i'm focused on poverty and -- we have the 50th anniversary on the war on poverty coming up. we don't have much to show for it. >> the highest rate in a generation. i think there are better ideas that we can use to approach and
attack the root causes of poverty and as conservatives we should not crede the moral high ground on this issue. we shouldn't crede the playing field to a political monopoly. >> nor go out of our way to offend people who should be our swing voters. >> absolutely. we should compete for everybody's vote. that's my point. i think we have better ideas and approaches which we need to continue to develop to show everybody that we have better solutions to help them improve their lot in life. >> he wasn't russell brand. he was pretty good. >> i shaved this morning. >> didn't make me uncomfortable. >> you've heard of him. >> yeah. >> i know who you are. congressman paul ryan, thank you. >> thank you, snul nice to see you again. >> on the set especially. still ahead, member of the armed services committee, senator kirsten gillibrand will join us. up next, pete williams here to preview the supreme court's landmark week ahead. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] you know what happens
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it is 22 past the hour. and looks to be a landmark week ahead at the supreme court. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is here with a preview. pete? >> well, mika, thing about this, just a year ago we were waiting for just one big ruling on the obama health care law. now we're waiting for decisions on at least three divisive issues as this court term ends with high drama. the hot button issue of gay rights dominates an unusually long list of important cases left to decide. >> i can't remember a week that was as historic as the one we're about to see where you have at least three or four decisions that would lead the evening news and be remembered for decades or even centuries. >> reporter: two gay couples challenging california's
proposition 8. they will rule on the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act passed by congress in 1996. it blocks the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriage in states where they are legal. in three more states have agreed to promote it, bringing the total to 12 states plus washington, d.c. no way to know how that -- the voting rights act. requires states with history to get federal approval before changing how they can [ inaudible ] elections. shelby county, alabama, says the law renewed in 2006 is so outdated it's no longer constitutional. >> the era that elected barack obama is not the america on
campus overall and within minority groups. when the case was argued last october, a majority, including chief justice john roberts seemed to find that too vague. >> when will i know you've reached -- >> reporter: one bit of drama we will not get is a retirement. we don't expect it. the court's oldest justice ruth bader ginsburg 80 but shows no sign of slowing down. >> pete, so as we look at these three issues, civil rights act, seems i remember a lot of justices being very skeptical of the defense of that, gay marriage obviously, your package went into detail on that, affirmative action, skepticism there, are court watchers even after last year's ruling on the
president's health care plan, are observers even daring to dip their toe in the water and try to predict where kennedy and the rest of the court will go? >> oh, yes. you can't stop us from guessing. and here's -- you're right about the voting rights act, because there was a case here three years ago, challenge to the voting rights act. the court came up to the edge, peered over the abyss and decided they weren't going to strike it down but said in very strong language that things have changed in the south, and that the law was in danger of being out of date. a hint to congress that they should update it. but congress has made no changes in the law so i think it would be a surprise if the court doesn't weaken or strike down the voting rights act. you never know towards the end. on affirmative action a great deal of skepticism here. the big change in the court sandra day o'connor who wrote the last decision upholding affirmative action is gone, replaced by samuel alito who takes a dim view of any kind of
racially conscious government action. it would be in trouble. on the two same-sex marriage cases, the best guess i think is that they will find that the prop 8 case from california got here the wrong way, because the state of california decided not to defend it. the question is whether the prop 8 people who put it on the ballot could come here to the court. they may say no and simply say we can't take this case which would let the lower court ruling stand that found it unconstitutional. same-sex marriage could resume in the state. for doma, i think it would be a surprise if the court doesn't strike it down. that certainly seemed to be the way it was going in oral argument. maybe they'll find that case got here in the wrong way too and that would be a bit of a mess because that would lead in place the lower court decisions. if the obama administration said it's not going to defend it i don't know where you would go from there. >> nbc's pete williams, thank you. >> thank you, pete. >> joining us from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd.
we'll start with snowden. we hads james woolsey on the show and he indicated the president needs to make a strong statement about at least one of the two countries that have seen snowden. >> you would assume that one of those two countries is the russians here. and watching putin again, one thing about him for better or worse, the man is transactional. what happened overnight? what did the u.s. government do to at least make the russians think about it for one more flight or take some time to figure out okay, you know, putin stuck his finger in the side when last week, proved he's a road block potentially on things. exerted his muscle, whatever you want to describe it. does he want to continue to sort of make this relationship, worsen this relationship with the u.s., or does he use this moment as sort of -- one thing about putin, he is unpredictable.
just when you think he's completely slipping away as a sort of a ally is too strong of a word, but friendly adversary, suddenly he does something that makes you think okay, these guys can cut a deal. so nothing would surprise me in how putin would end up reacting. we're only discussing how the government legislates equality and diversity in all sorts of whether it's college all those things. that's all. only the things that have divided american politics the last 40 years. that's it. >> that's all. >> nothing. >> and chuck, we've been talking about the op-ed yesterday, about the great disconnect. it is something that you look at what the court is talking about right now and certainly it's very -- it's very important and it should be very important, the sections of this society, all of those issues. but the president's also going to be talking about climate
change. very important for a lot of people, certainly a lot of people from washington up to boston. but it doesn't rank high in the polls. it seems to me. we look at this culture, this political culture on tv, on talk radio, on the internet, and then in the senate and the house at the white house, they're talking about everything except what americans are most concerned about and that is an economy that seems to be withering away, while politicians are desperate to pump it full of sort of fuel induction. >> joe, you forget about that very top of the mind issue, nuclear arms control. >> yes. >> that of course is something that -- >> we're talking about in rotary clubs across america. >> raleigh, missouri, what they were getting together to figure out. the other issue everybody is ducking is the issue of we're staring in front of us, are all
of these various ways that washington isn't working. so either if you're not going to address these economic -- and one could argue there's only so much that could be done as you wait for the economy to recover. you do little things here. it's sort of a -- some of this stuff isn't going to happen overnight and you wait. there seems to be real healing here and the economy seems to be improving in a lot of areas, but why not address the other elephant in the room that people do talk about at their kitchen tables in the rotary clubs this leaderless washington. who's trying to figure out why is it that speaker boehner couldn't get control and run the house of representatives. why isn't the president able to rally the world and beat up putin in a way that shame him into expediting a solution in syria. you know, where is this, you know -- sometimes i get the impression that boehner and the
president -- everybody's throwing up their hands going, boy, look at this hand i've been dealt. it's an awful hand. i don't know what to do. forget it. >> chuck, the residual effect, part of the residual effect of that feeling that is out there, the sentiment is out there, that nothing works in washington for us, for the people, you're going to see it tomorrow with a record, record low turnout in the massachusetts senate race. >> and mike, this is something -- this has been happening -- the most underreported story of 2012 was the fact that turnout went down, not up. despite population gains. i can point to a lot of data points, l.a. mayor, people in los angeles are apathetic in general but even for them turnout was low. l.a. mayor this year. primaries in virginia, record low. the phrase historically low to describe people participating in the political process in new jersey, was used and the primaries just passed. you pointed to massachusetts. the primaries themselves were much lower than what they were three years ago during the same type of special election. i think there is this middle,
this is sort of their way of saying, you know, given the finger to the government which is i'm not participating. forget it. >> great. okay. chuck todd, thanks very much. we'll see you at 9:00. >> thank you, chuck. >> on the daily rundown. daredevil nik wallenda went out for a leisurely stroll last night 1500 feet above the grand canyon. >> praise you, god. praise you, jesus. lord, help this cable to calm down. command it in your name, jesus, authority of god praise you. praise you jesus. >> wow. our own willie geist was there and joins us in just a bit. more "morning joe" when we come back. [ female announcer ] are you sensitive to dairy?
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>> oh, my. >> former sox. >> st. louis cardinals, i know you mentioned the best record in baseball, they got spanked over the weekend after a rain delay. first pitch comes about 11:00 p.m. eastern time. top of the seventh, ian kinsler, rbi single for the go-ahead run. want to go to the ninth. two guys on, one out, and our
old friend, adrian beltre does that. he doubles them up to end the game. rally killer. they sweep the cardinals. and another ex-red sox, victor martinez in detroit. >> beltre a hall of famer, you know. >> you think so? >> yes. >> check out this play by victor. getting jacoby else bury who can fly, by the way. detroit wins 7-5. >> did you see the hand slap there? elsebury giving the hand slap. >> on the behind like ocho cinco. >> make the flip. else bury is out. watch this. >> tj, come on, show the hand slap. >> you can see it right -- >> oh. >> oh. >> that's a joke with no punch line, barnicle. thanks, see you tomorrow. >> that's very useful. thank you very much. how the women of it tennis broke up the boys club to demand equal pay on the court. that's the topic of a new espn documentary. it is fantastic.
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i think during that period of time she was going through a process where she became more aware through former contacts of the game like billie jean she had a strong role to play. >> this started to become the idea of equal prize money was very important to her and we needed a leader. >> i wasn't out there looking to make these huge changes, but i felt like i don't like this, i don't think it's fair, i feel tennis is a premier sport for
women so we have to set an example here. >> that was part of the new documentary "venus versus" about venus williams and her fight for tennis and equal pay. >> what's the name? >> "venus versus". >> now the film director and screen writer ava duvernay. it's important on so many levels. we're talking about a lot of money here but most importantly we're talking about a moral right and wrong happening in the world of tennis, venus picking up the mantle from billie jean king. >> it's a matter of principle. since 1968 when tennis was made open but not equal billie jean king had been fighting for equalized pay and up until 2007, the male champion and the woman champion weren't paid equally. she did something about it and took up the mantle. the documentary about the campaign little known here, really a uk story, but didn't make headlines in the u.s. >> what is it she did and was it
risky? >> i think it was risky when you think about the modern day athlete and the kind of brand damage that's possible, the millions of dollars at stake with the sponsorships and what not. putting her kind of persona at risk for really what was a nominal difference at that point. it was really not so much about the difference in pay, as it was about the fact that there is a difference in pay. >> right. >> and that's what she and the ladies of the wta fought for and won. this was her story. >> what were some of the challenges they faced in the fight beyond maybe completely infuriating certain sponsors or certain people who run the show and that's something that i think women struggle with more than men. men don't care if people get angry. women do. >> as we interviewed folks it was the fact that their male counterparts did not stand up and really participate in the idea that there should be equal pay. most of the male athletes at the time and even now all of whom
refused to be interviewed for this, did not support this idea of equalizing. you get to the notion of it's not going to hurt you if it's equal, so why can it not be? >> that's amazing. i'm surprised to hear that. >> yeah. that's something that we experience when we talk about, you know, pay equality. >> who wouldn't talk and explain why it isn't fair. who thought it was okay? >> there are no male tennis players in the documentary. >> we had a lot of refusals of interviews. >> there are no male entires. >> did you ask roger federer. >> we did. >> he may not want to be political and that could be the case. >> what is political about equal pay? seriously. >> it shouldn't be. but as you know it is. well, it's -- they don't want to bring in popular culture touch stones to their career. they want to talk about tennis. >> in tennis if you follow the
sport, women should get more because they had more stars. you knew the number ten women in the world more than the man. what's the logic behind not supporting it? you hear arguments from they play fewer sets and fewer games so their matches are shorter. >> the key arguments the women played two out of three. the men play best of five. it's a matter of quality over quantity. go to see a film that's three hours long, you don't pay a difference because it's a length of that. so the other thing was, the ratings. they're cyclical. at some points women have better ratings, some points men have better ratings and evens out. that was a wash. all the arguments have very strong counterpoints. >> i'm still stuck on the male tennis players. i remember when i did my book,
joe was like yeah, mika should make the same money, she should make more. >> that's what it came down to, the men opposed it. a number of male players that were vocal about the fact they felt the women's game was not as interesting. >> it's just as interesting. i watched the finals in the french open, men and women, and they were both riveting. i didn't find one more riveting than the other. the men had harder serves. that's about it. their points were long compared to usual -- women's points tend to be longer. but how do they rank? how do they stack up in terms of viewership? >> the ratings are pretty consistent along both lines. the ticket prices are pretty consistent around both lines. i mean, it really gets into a matter of we're talking about blatant sexism and the film explores how venus championed this cause and put it over the finish line. in the year it was equalized in 2007, she played for the championship that she had fought for and was the first to win the
equal pay prize. >> "venus versus" airs july 2nd at 8:00 p.m. don't miss it. ava, thank you for being on the show. really appreciate it. great work. stunning. coming up next, willie geist joins us live from the very spot where nik wallenda made his record-breaking tight rope walk near the grand canyon. there he is with natalie. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm jennifer hudson. i hate getting up in the morning. i love cheese. i love bread. i'm human! and the weight watchers 360 program lets me be. the reason i'm still in this body feelin' so good isn't because i never go out and enjoy the extra large, extra cheese world we live in. it's because i do. and you can too, with the weight watchers 360 program. the power to lose weight like never before. join for $1. hurry, join by june 29th and you'll get a free summer starter kit.
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you're my savior, yes, jesus, yes, jesus. god, you're so good. thank you for this opportunity, lord. thank you, jesus. calm those winds in the name of jesus. thank you, lord. yes, jesus. that's my king. praise you. praise you, jesus. yes, lord. keep me calm. lord, help me to relax, father. >> take your time. >> i april. i am.
>> yeah! >> all right. this weekend, the man known as the flying wallenda completed his incredible walk across the grand canyon. 1,500 feet above the ground. it aired live on the discovery channel. joining us now from the grand canyon is our own willie geist, the "today" show's natalie more relless. >> we still got tense watching the replay of it here. >> and you hadn't seen really the camera shot looking down so that was the first time you got to see this. spectacular. i know you didn't sleep much at all. >> feeling good. >> in the past when you've done some of these walks, you have done it so easily that you show boated the end. the tension you were feeling early was clear to us was very real. >> it was.
from the first five steps out, when i felt the dust on the cable, that's something i didn't think about. so you saw me. i stopped and actually -- which is gross, but i put spit on my shoes because it makes them sticky, grippy. i knew it was rough when i got about 20 feet past that canyon wall. >> you couldn't hear it but right before you went on jim cantore gave us a report and he measured winds right at the middle of the wire at 48 miles an hour. >> i wish he told me that before i got on the wire. >> how bad was the wind out there? >> it was pretty bad. you know, i think i proved yesterday that it wasn't anything beyond what i could handle but it was definitely worse than i wanted. it was very uncomfortable. every time i adjust to that wind, i'm kicking a rhythm into that cable. it just starts to build up, keeps whipping. >> it's like a suspension bridge if you think about it. that wire is vibrating. it's alive.
>> that's right, it has its own movement. if i keep walking the same pace, i'll build a rhythm so big i won't be able to stay on the cable. >> we saw you crouch down a couple times. was that to break that up? >> it was. for one, there was that big gust of wind that cape up. and then my dad said, just stay there for a minute and let that rhythm come out of the cable. >> you've been very loose leading up to this. you've had a good sense of humor. there was a paramedic stationed at the bottom of the canyon. you had a line you couldn't use because you were busy up there. >> i had every intent of looking down and saying, hi, mr. paramedic, i hope you bought a shovel with you. >> we can laugh now. it's okay. you made history at the grand canyon. >> that's unbelievable. >> nick wallenda, you probably can't relate to this, but i can relate to you, having crossed the street at west broadway and west 56th street in manhattan. it's very busy. you have to rush across.
when you were making the crossing, what do your eyes focus on? do you look at the wire? do you look with such intensity you don't see the bottom of the canyon? >> i try to. i like to look around. i like to be able to look around. i only had three opportunities to actually enjoy the view. but i do focus on the wire. i try to focus 50 to 100 feet in problem of me. the challenge i had was the canyon walls have so many ridges in them. with the ridges and the stabilizers, they were all swaying against each other. it was really hard to focus on anything. it almost felt like a nightmare, like i couldn't find my equilibrium. >> we're going to talk to you in person, but, nick, it's mika better sk brzezinski here. are you done now?
>> i sign almost every autograph so i'm not done yet. >> oh, lord. we'll talk to him wednesday in studio. >> i have dreams of walking all over the world including the eiffel tower in france. one of my next dreams is a major walk between two skyscrapers in new york city. >> okay. willie geist and natalie morales, you guys did a good job building up to the big walk last night. and he is proud he walked from the subway station to 30 roc. up next, where in the world is edward snowden? after he is formally charged with espionage, there are reports he's heading to cuba. it's monday. a brand new start. your chance to rise and shine.
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for mr. snowden, if he refuses to talk to any sort of formal government about this, i think there's a chance he'll be seen as an advocate of privacy. if he cozies up to the russian government, the chinese government, any of these governments perceived as enemies of ours, i think that will be a real problem for him in history. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast.
as you take a live look at new york city. it's a beautiful monday. wake up, everybody. back with us on set we have mike barnacle, thomas roberts and "the washington post's" kathleen parker. >> finally. how did this guy get away? we have inspector clouseau looking for him? >> we'll ask the former -- >> how does that not happen? the guy goes to china. okay, we know a few people in china, right? >> listen, hey, you know, russian? that doesn't surprise -- now what, cuba? >> all you have to do is rescind the passport. >> why didn't we do it? >> i don't know. >> he seems to be hopscotching across the globe, visiting all the people who don't like us that much. >> we heard he might fly to cuba, ecuador. >> he needs to really stop by if he's doing this victory tour. >> he should go to north korea. >> he should go to north korea.
>> cuba, at least he can come home for christmas. >> there you go. >> oh, my god. >> nantucket. >> this guy is not a hero on this set i'm taking it. >> it's a question. >> well, i think he heard his standing with rand paul who was upset he went from one tyrannical government to another. it's kind of hard fighting for openness in government and you pick the five most tyrannical closed societies on the globe. >> right, right, free speech, epicenter of free speech, china, go. >> no, i'm going to russia, no, maybe cuba or venezuela. >> right. >> if you want to make the argument that there's too much secrecy, that too much is classified, the best choice obviously is come back here, get a great lawyer, you make bail obviously, and you articulate your case. >> right, right, if you want to be courageous, if you want to prove to the world you're a man of principle. >> let's give everybody the very
latest here because there's some interesting side twists to this. after being charged by the u.s. government with espionage, snowden has fled hong kong and reportedly arrived in moscow. from there, he may head to cuba and possibly ecuador where he has requested asylum. after revoking his passport, american officials requested hong kong arrest snowden, but the government declined saying the documents did not comply with hong kong law. "the new york times" is reporting that it was chinese, not hong kong officials, who made the final call to let snowden leave. the paper also quoted intelligence sources close to the u.s. government that say they believe the chinese government managed to drain the contents of the four laptops in snowden's possession. the latest twists. outraged, u.s. lawmakers from both sides of the aisle. >> i don't know how anybody can view this person as anything other than a cripp. >> i want to get him caught.
and brought back for trial. >> they should use every legal avenue we have to bring hip back to the united states. if he really believe, he did something good, he should get on a plane, come back and face the consequences. >> what's infuriating is prime minister putin of russia aiding and abetting snowden's escape. allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways. putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the united states. whether it is syria, iran and now of course with snowden. >> four laptops? >> can you imagine -- >> and how do we know they drained them? like drained them into what? into little things they can plug in somewhere else? >> here's the problem, you talk about the guy -- you take it he's not a hero on the set. this turns into straight espionage. it goes from being a, quote,
whistleblower, and that was shaky, till now it's just out and out espionage. he's turning over state secrets to the chinese, to the russians, everybody else. >> he's guilty of treason, needs to be in prison or at least be tried for treason. we have -- as a reporter for more decades than i want to admit, we are always such champions of free speech. but, you know, there is a reason we have classified documents. and classified information by definition isn't supposed to be circulated. how does this person, this 29-year-old, decide that he's the one who's going to save us from ourselves? you know, it's -- the grandiosity -- >> corruption, it's kind of like julian assange. i watched this great documentary -- >> you're killing me. >> encapsulates the mentality of noble cause corruption. the rules don't apply because
i'm going to save the world with this information. the best thing for snowed be to do, come back and face what the accusations of what you've done are, prove yourself innocent, go through trial. >> the debate, we could debate this last week. that's debatable. i understand. the nsa documents, very debatable. inpassioned people on both sides. especially younger people. but when a guy goes to china, turns over his laptops, jammed with nsa secrets, that goes from an intellectual debate to just out and out espionage against his government, treason. >> you're not going to china if you're seeking a country infused with a sense of liberty and openness. but it gets me at least back to the baseline of this question. you're talking about repertoirial backgrounds. how did snowden get into booz
allen? how did he get hired? how did he get access to all of this. my instinct is still so much about this story that we do not know. like who is running snowden? how does he get to hong kong? how does he get -- >> that's a reporter thinking there. who's behind snowden? there's more than we know for sure. >> glenn greenwald who has been the main conduit, was asked by david gregory about his role in the disclosures. >> to the extent that you have aided and abetted snowden even in his current movements, why shouldn't you be charged with a kri crime? >> i think it's extraordinary anybody who would call himself a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies. the assumption in your question is completely without evidence. if you want to embrace that theory, it means that every
investigative journalist in the united states who works with their sources is a criminal. and it's precisely those theories that has become so menacing in the united states. >> the question of who's a journalist may be up to a debate with regard to what you're doing. anybody who's watching this understands i was asking a question. that question has been raised by lawmakers as we. i'm not embracing anything. but obviously take your point. >> right, but it was a question though. the correct answer is, it's outrageous you would suggest i'm aiding and abetting, i'm not. if he's just getting information and putting it in the newspaper, that's one thing. if he's a much bigger part of this story, that's another. >> we have to be very careful. you don't prosecute reporters for doing your job. >> absolutely not. glenn and i have had, you know, positive relationship which is sort of a strange thing but we both share similar concerns.
but i saw him on the set, you know, mikka asked the question. people ask you questions and he knocks their heads off. you can ask questions of people without them becoming -- >> it's an interesting role reversal for them because he has -- he spent many years being a media critic and i've fallen in his sights a time or two. i don't know what his larger role is except he does seem very defensive of -- >> i'm not speculating what his role is. i don't know the basis of the question. somebody asks me if i'm aiding and abetting an international fugitive, i say no, of course i'm not. a question that has been asked in other forms for a week now. glen is an advocacy journal it's. we all understand that. the answer to the question is a simple no, of course not. especially if it keeps getting
raised. he is in a fascinating position. i've given glenn great credit because he went after the bush administration, also the obama administration. very independent person. he's been extraordinarily defensive in these interviews. which has been disappointing. having him on the show, when he was here in person, having some positive interviews. >> i think we've all seen glen before. he's a very interesting character. a little prickly at times. this was an interesting exchange where it's like what comes first, the chicken or the egg. this is about good journalism. creating the debate we have. there is a point you have to evolve the conversation into which point is this truly dangerous. again, i get back to my documentary. michael hayden was in it. look, he says, we steal secrets. our country is in the business of stealing secrets. so now it's just out on the table, we're talking about it.
>> lots of other news. including opening statements in the trial of george zimmerman which will be starting at 9:00 a.m. the prosecution suffered a potential blow to its case we the judge barred testimony from audio experts who claimed trayvon martin can be heard screaming on a call before he was fatally shot. the methods used to identify the voices are not reliable, however, she will allow the 911 recording to be played during the trial, opening the door for witnesses to identify the person crying for help. zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. he's pleading not guilty, claiming he shot martin in self-defense. your latest column talks about this case. it's entitled george zimmerman's jury of peers. you write, what makes the six member jury interesting other than the head snapping reporting of its composition is that it forces to the fore all the
implications we try to avoid. do gender, race, eth that taste, age, sexual or yen taste and so on matter when it companies to judging one another? the reason the all women jury made headlines is because it raises those very questions. we trust juries because there is no better alternative. we are putting our faith in the better angels of man's nature. in our racially diverse, proudly multicultural nation, it isn't clear whether a jury of one's peers is possible. the trial will force us to confront our own biases. a necessary step toward the aspiration we call blind justice. we should note that george zimmerman has sued nbc universal, the parent company of this network, for defamation. the company has strongly denied his allegations. with that, kathleen, the jury issue is fascinating. >> it was so interesting to me. the headline popped off the page when it said "all women jury."
>> what did it say to you? >> it raised the question. why are we interested it's all women? clearly, it does mean something. there's a suggestion there that when you have an all women panel, something may not be just right. so that then leads to all the other questions that you so beautifully read. it's how much -- how trusting are we that we can have a jury of our peers because we are such a diverse country. my column doesn't land on an answer because i don't think columnists always have to know the answer. i think it's interesting to get people to think. >> ruminate on the issues it raises. >> what i always learn from my column is the next day when i read my mail, which i do, a lot of columnists don't, but i always learn something. >> that's interesting. >> i delete as soon as i realize
it's hate mail which is probably 70%. but i do learn from my readers, many of hoop awhom are thoughtf educated. what i learned from this was disconcerting. so many people who wrote said, you know, zimmerman is guilty. martin asked for it. and you could tell very clearly how this broke down. it broke down black and white. it was very disturbing. kind of like -- made you obviously think about the o.j. simpson trial. >> i'm sorry, why aren't there african-americans on the jury? >> that's a good question. i wasn't there -- >> come on, seriously. >> now the biggest question, is george zimmerman going to testify. how will that resonate with this panel of jurists? we've seen with jodi arias, who claimed self-defense, how her testimony went. we also seen what happened in another high-profile case, casey anthony, who did not testify,
and was acquitted. legal experts say when you claim self-defense you need to get up and testify. >> this tape recording is problematic. you're going to decide on that basis who was screaming. does that necessarily mean that person was in greater distress than the other person not screaming? does a 29-year-old sound that much different from a teenage -- >> you talk about the questions that are going to be raised. if you have a jury in a racially charged case that doesn't have a single african-american on there, you're just setting yourself up for failure and recrimination regardless. >> and appeal. >> and appeal immediately. that's what's so shocking about it. >> one of the questions that usually gets asked is do you trust or distrust the police.
do you have an adversarial relationship with authority. maybe a lot of people were eliminated that way. if i say yes to that, you're gone. >> still ahead, senator kristin gillibrand joins us. first, a check of the forecast. >> continuing to keep a close eye on the fire situation out across the west. a number of areas across the four corners where the red flag warningings a inings are in pla. this is the south fork area. still one in colorado. still the gusty winds the firefighters have to contend with. it's mainly a southwesterly wind during the day time. could see gusts upwards of 20 miles an hour. that does make it tricky as far as firefights are concerned. as far as a few others, could see some showers especially later opn this afternoon. it's not a full coverage kind of day as far as the thunderstorms are concerned. maybe enough to slow things down
talk about why you did not vote for senator gillibrand's bill and the complications on that. >> this is an honest disagreement about which is stronger for victims. i believe there's less chance of a victim being retaliated against when the commander remains in the process at the beginning. because if the commander's not in the process at the beginning, than that woman goes back into that unit and the only one who signed off on her case going forward is a bunch of outside lawyers that nobody knows. as opposed to the commander saying this case needs to go forward. >> both you and kristin have been leaders on this. >> by the way, she and i are both focused like lasers on the same goal. anybody who tries to drive a wedge between us doesn't understand how hard we're working together to do the bet job possible. >> welcome back to "morning joe." a life look at washington, d.c., the nation's capital. been focusing on women but i got
to tell you the shocking statistic coming from the pentagon report, report in "the new york times," and this is something mike knows a lot about, 53% of the unwanted sexual advances are toward men. look at that. >> i'm not going to see my career go up in flames. >> you're going to keep your mouth shut? is that not surprising? isn't just a one's issue. as kristin gillibrand has been saying. this is about both sexes. >> what we saw just then is senator mccaskill on a recent committee vote to keep the review within the chain of command. which was the big controversy among many. here with us now, democratic senator from new york and member of the armed services committee senator gillibrand.
ki ki ki kristin, where does this stand? we know this is a pervasive problem. it seems to me keeping it out of the chain of command would make more sense. what's become more complicated, correct? >> correct. the reason why i'm arguing so strongly to take it out of the chain of command is because the victims have told us that they don't trust the chain of command. in fact, they don't believe they can receive justice if the only decisionmaker is their commander, their boss. as joe said, this is not just about women, more than half of the victims are men. the most recent survey, more than half were of men. so this is a pervasive problem. it's a cultural problem. till you see more prosecutions, more jury verdicts and more guilty verdicts and more people going to jail, you're not going to change the culture. because till that's done, victims will not trust the system enough to report these
crimes. >> senator, let's set the chain command apart and talk about competence. why is it within each branch of service, i believe this is correct, unlike major police departments in this country, there is no independent sex crimes unit, where crimes can be reported to, investigated and adjudicated independently of other elements within the department? why is it apparently within the arped services there are none like this? >> i think that's the point. we want this decisionmaker to be not by a commander who may not be trained in the law at all. main not even believe sexual assault is a crime. that lack of objectivity and training is a problem. if we could have a trained prosecutor is could study sexual assaults and rape, develop expertise and understand it, you're going to have something more similar to the victims crime unit we have for example with the manhattan d.a.'s office where the state of the art law and investigates were developed.
>> kristen, can you explain to the uninitiated why the armed service committee chairman thinks that commanders should be able to overturn the rulings a jury of his or her peers and allow a rapist to escape charge? >> i think senator levin along with hagel are now in agreement the commanders should no longer have that responsibility. that's called the art kill icle convening authority. it says the commander can overturn a verdict. because hagel said he wanted to unwind that, senator levin and others are in agreement as is senator mccaskill. what i would like to add to that is the decision point of whether or not to go to trial. those two decision points should only be made by trained prosecutors and then appeals courts. that's why we're trying to instill objectivity into the
system. >> when you compare to what senator mccaskill had to say, she seeped to imply there was a check and balance with the way she supported. where does that not -- >> senator mccaskill believes that commanders should no longer have that article 16 authority. she believes the decision point should be made by the commander. the reason why i disagree with her is because that's what the victims tell us. of the victims who have reported, 62% say they were retaliated against. they say the reason is because they either think justice won't be done, they don't trust their comma commanders, or they've seen someone be retaliated against. those are the reasons. till you can create a more appearance of objectivity by having these prosecutors take it, you're not going to have the reporting. you're not going to have the trials and convictions. as a last point, the reason why i feel so confident this can work, is because all the allies that we fight side by side with have already made this change.
israel, the uk, canada, australia, germany. they've all said in order to have justice within the military system, you need decision making about whether to go to trial done by trained prosecutors. all felonies and above, serious crimes, have been taken out of their chains of command into military prosecutorial systems. >> quickly before you go on a different topic on the issue of the government contractor who leaked top secret information, edward snowden, first of all, how would you character who he is and what he has done? and what do you think we should be doing the administration should be doing in light of his multicountry tour of trying to stay away from the united states? >> well, at a minimum, his conduct is criminal. and i have very serious concerns about the structure we put in place for our natural security to have that so much of our national security being outsourced to contractors who may not have allegiance to our government who may not be trained as our military and our
governmental personnel are, is a serious question. i am gravly concerned about the green by wid we have given so much of our national security to outside contractors. i think that needs to be looked at very seriously and actually restructured. >> we'll be following all these stories. thank you for your work. >> thank you for being here. we greatly appreciate it. >> coming up -- >> you know, i tried to get mike to talk about how he's sexually harassed. he did not allow me -- >> he's a smart man. >> i'm not going there. i'm not going there. my central park tales no, stay with me. >> all right, what's up next? >> amid new breakouts of violence, a major u.s. bank is doubling down on baghdad. we're going to tell you who.
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>> absolutely. >> so let me do the story. twinkie back on the shelves next month. thanks to new owners. >> american heroes. >> i will tell you, they're going to sell like twinkies. they're going to go. have you had a twinkie? >> yes, i have had ten in one sitting, thank you. >> they're fantastic. >> yes, i know that. they don't need to come back. >> these people are american heroes. >> i wish the company could find something else to do so they could keep employees. >> what better thing to do than saving twinkies? >> there's nothing good about a twinkie. >> little debby didn't need saving this week so -- >> that was just not breaking news. with cnbc's michelle caruso-cabrera. what's moving the markets this morning? please don't say twinkies. >> you ought to have the ceo of the company that bought twinkies. >> that would be interesting. >> concerns about the chinese
banking system. just like our federal reserve here has said they are going to be less easy with money into the economy, the say thing is happening in china. for different reasons. been trying to crack down on sneaky lending the government doesn't like. they think it leads to a lot of ponzi schemes and a lot of negative consequences for the economy. but because they are getting tighter with money, it will affect the chinese economy in some form or fashion and that's worried u.s. investors here because, remember, they are the second largest economy in the world. most of the world is relying on them to continue growing. in a world that's really been fueling a lot of boom activity that we've seen, if there is any, in the last few years. go ahead. >> we also had teels edteels te baghdad banking story. >> citigroup is opening a branch in baghdad. so precrisis. and this is a sign that maybe things are getting better in baghdad and iraq. especially if you need to start
moving capital around. you need to start thinking about investment pose ain'tabilisibii as well. now they're talking about actually opening branches. they think the economy should be about $2 trillion by 2050. a lot of that driven by a recovery in the oil sector there. julio hu hulu is up for sale. there's a question of whether it should be for anybody or whether it should still be for people who have a cable subscription. there's a lot of internal angst about content, how it should be distributed, how it should be paid for. hulu sits right at the center of that controversy. $695 million in revenue with 4 million subscribers last year. >> michelle caruso-cabrera, thank you so much. monsters university, pixars prequel to the 2001 hit, pulled
in $92 million, taking the number one at the box office this weekend. mark, the 14th consecutive film from pixar to lead the box office on the weekend it premiered. it was the second highest opening ever for pixar behind their 2010 film "toy story 3" which drew $110 million. brad pitt's "world war z" took the number two spot, making $66 million. there you go. up next, paula deen's cooking empire may be in jeopardy. how some insensitive comments may have cost the celebrity chef her top notch status. it's monday.
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partnership with the food network will come to an end when it expires this month. the food network chose not to renew her contract after a legal deposition revealed the famous chef used racial slurs and tolerated racial jokes at her restaurant. >> you know what her defense was? oh, you know, i don't make racial jokes, i just joke about -- and then she went and -- just go down the check list. >> she's being sued by a former employee. she took to the air waves to apologize over the weekend. >> i beg you, my children, my team, my fans, my partners, i beg for your forgiveness. please forgive me. for the mistakes that i've made. >> i forgive her. >> i do. >> just don't do anymore videos. >> deen's built a cooking empire
with restaurant endorsements and kitchen wear. >> what happened there? >> and, mike, guess the question is, i mean, we've seen people get fired by one network after another network after another network. like even being banned from parking lots. a lifetime ban from ever letting people go into parking lots. >> there were two outside harvard where both of us, we can't go back together. >> exactly. how much do you want to bet -- even these people get tifired fm one network after another network. and then they get fired from another network. and they quit another network. and they sue another network. they always find -- paula deen, somebody's going to pick her up. >> you think so? i think she's going to struggle. >> oh, come on, there's 847 channels. a sucker's born every day. we see that, somebody gets fired
from another network and always gets hired again. >> all right, up next -- >> so she's going to find another -- >> by labor day, she'll be back with another channel. >> i'm taking the over on that, there's no way. >> okay. >> at her age with what she's done -- >> what do you mean at her age? that's ageism. and she apologized. >> would you shut up? >> you know what i do from 6:00 to 7:00 a.m. -- >> you ought to put on a lot of rouge and go do your apology. >> she doesn't have decade, s t rebuild a reputation. >> i think we know exactly what you're saying, that older people -- >> this business is like a hot mess, that's what joe's saying. >> you might want to put on like ten tammy faye baker makeup like she did and go and apologize. we're minutes away from breaking news story. >> the prosecution's opening statement in the george zimmerman trial -- i'm trying to help all of you. >> it's called ageism. >> we'll get a breakdown of the
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supreme court. we could get decisions on 11 cases including gay marriage and affirmative action. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams has that story. >> reporter: the hot-button issue of gay rights dominates an unusually long list of important cases let to decide. >> i can't remember a week that was as historic as the one we're about to see. where you have at least three or four decisions that would lead the evening news and be remembered for decades or centuries. >> reporter: the law that banned same sex marriage there. >> it doesn't harm you. >> reporter: the court will rule on the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act passed by congress in 1996. it blaocks the federal governmet from recognizing same sex marriages in states where they're legal.
legislatures in three more states have agreed to permit ittying the total to 12, plus washington, d.c. no way to know how that will influence the justices. the court will decide the fate of the most important civil rights law ever passed. voting rights act. it requires states with a history of discrimination to get federal approval before changing how they conduct elections. shelby county, alabama, south of birmingham, says the law renewed in 2006 is so outdated it's no longer constitutional. >> the america that elected barack obama is not the america of our parents and the grandparents. >> reporter: another racially interested case challenges affirmative action in school admissions. the university of texas says considering race is one factor gets more diversity. when the case was argued last october, a majority, encluding chief justice john roberts, seemed to find that too vague. >> when is the logical end point? when will i know you've reached
a critical mass. >> we'll wait to see what happens there. i think you'll see liberals and conservatives at the end of this week very frustrated. liberals on the civil rights act and on affirmative action. conservatives on same sex marriage. >> fascinating week. the opening statement by the prosecution in the trial of george zimmerman begins in just a few minutes. joining us now, legal analyst lisa bloom. let's first start with one of the more fascinating things about this trial so far. the makeup of the jury. >> all women. five out of the six are white, mostly middle aged, mostly mothers. >> that's interesting because we were talking about it earlier in the show. we were looking at that as potentially making a difference. it shouldn't make a difference but does it make a difference? >> everybody's been talking about this. i looked at the social science research. it turns out that women and men really don't decide cases any
differently based on jury studies. the one small difference is women tend to have more sympathy for victims. how does that play out in this case? the prosecution says trayvon martin is the victim. i don't think the gender issue is all that significant. >> let's look at the race issue. >> more significant. >> i find it very interesting. er everybody's talking about the gender issue. when you can never predict how women are going to decide a trial because they're women. you just can't. in a case that is racially as charged as this case is, what, there aren't enough african-americans in central florida? they couldn't have a single african-american, again, on a racially charged case? it seems to me this is a setup for an appeal -- >> i just wrote a piece about this. african-americans are underrepresented on juries across the country. that's because they are overrepresented as convicted felons.
in some states, as many of a third or a half of african-american males are disqualified from jury service for the rest of their lives. this is something that civil rights activists have been pointing out for many years. >> how does the prosecution not get a single -- got an hispanic and five white jurists. how did the prosecution not get a single african-american in there? >> because there are very few african-americans in the pool. the sixth juror, by the way, we are characterizing either hispanic or african-american or both. it's a little bit hard to tell. we just don't know. >> do we know how many men and how many blacks were stricken from the jury pool? >> i don't know because it's a little bit difficult question. there were a couple hundred people initially who were brought in for questioning. many asked for hardship exemption because this is a sequestered jury. they didn't want to be on.
most those who requested hardship were given that. we did know the defense exercised preemptory challenges. the defense made the same claim against the prosecution. in all cases, the judge said there were race neutral reasons why those jurors were stricken. >> we talked off camera about the racial tension component of this. i think back to rodney king. what's in stake here in terms of the national conversation? >> we know certainly there were a lot of demonstrations in the 44 days between this incident and zimmerman being interested. we just don't know yet. i encourage everybody to watch this case. it's going to be televised. we're going to be covering it extensi extensively. people can judge for themselves. i think this is a tough case. i don't think it's a clear case. one side or the other. it's going to depend on all the testimony. >> it's a really tough case for the prosecution, is it not? if you've got an audio
recording. we can all make our -- it's one thing if i listen to that auto recording and say, there's no doubt that's trayvon, i can do that sitting here. you and i both know if i'm in the jury and i've got to listen to that and i'm not sure and we're talking about beyond a reasonable doubt and we're talking about second degree murder, oh, my god, that is a tough mountain for the prosecution to climb. >> you're absolutely right. jurors tend to take these cases very seriously. they rise to the occasion. they look at the evidence. they know that a man's life is on the line. i can make an argument on that recording for either side. you can make the argument -- trayvon martin, his mother, identified it as trayvon. on the zimmerman side, he says he was screaming for help. as soon as the police came, he said, i was yelling for help and nobody helped me. >> right, and so here is -- and the reason i bring this up and you're talking about it as well
is because if you don't watch the trial, and you look at the makeup of the jury, and you see there are no african-americans on there as best we can tell, then it's easy from your gut to say, well, this just isn't fair. whereas it doesn't matter what race you are, if you're sitting on that jury and a man's life is in your hands, again, let us say right up front, that is -- the prosecution has an uphill battle from day one. i'll be honest -- >> they have burden of proof. >> i have no idea how they meet that burton of proof. >> there are a lot of witnesses. there are seven people who called 911. there are witnesses who say they saw the fight. some of them say trayvon martin was on top, zimmerman was down. some of them say zimmerman was on top, trayvon martin was down. >> we should note that george zimmerman has sued nbc universal -- >> are we going to have to say that either time for the next month? >> i think so. >> yep. the company has strongly denied these allegations.
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[ grunting ] [ male announcer ] the citi simplicity card is the only card that never has late fees, a penalty rate, or an annual fee, ever. go to citi.com/simplicity to apply. thank you, guys, so much for watching. coming up next, are we going to chuck todd? >> we have special coverage of the george zimmerman trial. >> i think somebody's suing us.
>> here is chuck. >> here it is. it's a blockbuster week ahead in american politics. historic decisions expected from the supreme court on how far the government should go in lens lating diversity and equality in this country. but it doesn't end there. the president set to address climate change. the push for incombination reform. all of that could climax in the senate. plus, nsa leaker edward snowden is on the run. he was expected to be on a flight from moscow to savannah. there's no sign of him and his location is unknown. is putin having second thoughts? and finally, the big story this hour, speaking of divisive issues. we're just moments away from opening statements in the george zimmerman trial. we're going tore go live to the courtroom in sanford, florida, when the prosecutor begins his ing statement. good morning from washington. i'm chuck todd. special edition here of "the daily