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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  June 27, 2013 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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here. okay. so we asked -- you saw the video of pete williams' intern hustling to get hip the decision. so we want to know what you think they should get in return for being such good for being such good hustlers. eric schultz is in for john tower. don't screw it up. >> couple great responses today. says honor correspondents should tip their closest interns $5,000 each at christmas and jazz says the only reward for that intern is to make him the next jets' qb. >> ouch. i wouldn't mind that. the patriots aren't going to have much talent on offense. by the way i like this one from ed welsh, toss him a fish like you might for a dolphin performing a trick. that's harsh. i was an intern before i was 26 years old before i got a full paying job. wonderful job. "morning joe" in d.c. starts
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right now. >> i for one cannot believe the court threw out doma. it was passed in 1996 to guarantee that traditional marriage was between one man and one woman for the sacred purpose of getting bill clinton re-elected. >> good morning. it's thursday, june 27th. with us on set democratic political strategist james carville, prize editorial writer for "the washington post" and msnbc be contributor jonathan capehart, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay and "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. james carville. >> wake up. >> we have in come a long way since 1996, haven't we? >> yeah. >> clinton signs doma, passed by our republican congress.
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>> right. >> overturned all these years later. >> probably the happiest person in america is president clinton today. he's probably not disappointed. probably wasn't his fondest hour when he signed it deep down inside. >> yeah. you know who's not happy? >> who's not happy? >> conservatives that want the court to get engaged in social issues. think about this, almost like the ghost of david sueder and william brennan and earl warner rising. this roberts' court now is going to be tagged by conservatives as saving obama care, saving affirmative action, and you think they like seeing that? rainbow rulings from the roberts' court. such good alliteration. >> justice kennedy. >> he's one guy. it's going to be interesting and what's going to be interesting is, the constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage who's going to sign up, who's not. what role is that going to play in the process, nominating
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process in 016. that's the way it's going. when you go to iowa, these guys are not going to be very happy about this, and this is going to be the interesting part where this debate is going politically i think. >> you think republicans in iowa are going to support same-sex marriage? >> i think -- >> i think people that go to the caucuses will want a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and said take it out of the supreme court, raise your hand if you're for it or not and interesting to see if the people running for president raise their hand or don't. >> we shall see. yesterday aboard air force one president obama personally phoned edie winsore the plaintiff in the case, also plaintiffs in the prop 8 case while they were live on msnbc with thomas roberts. sn>> >>. >> we're proud of you guys and we're so glad that -- for california and [ inaudible ].
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>> the supreme court also ruled against prop 8, the law banning same-sex marriage in california, and said supporters of the law did not have legal authority to appeal after the lower court declared it unconstitution a.m. reaction to the day's decision were emotional and, of course they were mixed. >> today is a good day. it's the day i finally get to look at the man that i love and finally say will you please marry me? >> i feel jubilation, i feel fabulous, i feel every gay word i can think of. >> we now have today is a wholly quintet who goes against the laws of nature and nature's god and that's very unfortunate. >> that is something that god created. that is something that god will define. the supreme court, though they may think so, have not yet
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arisen to the level of god. so we are here today standing four square in support of our constitution and for the institution of marriage. >> so, do you stand with michele bachmann and her position jonathan capehart or do you feel as -- >> quote fabulous right now? >> i would also -- the other gay word he's thinking of is divine. but my reaction to michele bachmann is probably the same reaction that nancy pelosi had yesterday when asked about it. she was standing off mike and asked her, congresswoman pelosi, what do you think of what michele bachmann said? she said who cares. who cares. the country is moving so quickly in favor of marriage equality and it's not just being imposed by courts as it happened the first time in 2004 in massachusetts or as it happened in iowa. it's happening with people going to now going to the ballot box
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and voting affirmatively for it. that's what happened in maine, that's what happened in maryland, that's what happened in washington state, that's what happened in minnesota. and in minnesota, the distinction there is in november they went to the ballot to say no to a state constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and then just -- >> really -- >> big change. >> huge. >> since 2004, james. think about eight years ago, nine years ago, republicans knew george w. bush's margins could be increased if they put same-sex marriage bans on ballots in swing states and karl rove was right? >> remember how signed kriv vil unions in vermont and thought it was the end of the world. oh, my god the end of civilization as we knew it. now the -- civil unions is the sort of fallback. i've never seen anything change, a big issue change as rapidly as this has.
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i mean it's stunning the changes in attitude that has and there's going to be good, political science and history book written about this. i can't explain it. >> katty, in britain, of course, the change happened earlier, but it's interesting, some politicians can get too far out front on that change. of course we saw in parliament, some members of david cameron's party went out in support of same-sex marriage and then pulled back very quickly because -- >> yeah. he himself, david cameron, conservative, has been in favor of gay marriage and has been in favor of it but they did get out in front of the opinion polls and you got a backlash from particularly church goers in the country from the anglican church in the country and conservative base in the country also had a backlash. you saw it in france. the single biggest country in the world to legislate in favor of gay marriage. you saw a huge backlash from a rural conservative base of the country that didn't think -- want things to move forward.
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in brazil where it was passed you saw some sort of backlash from the church and conservative right. it's understandable there's going to be a backlash. as james says and jonathan says this is moving in that direction and it's not a party split, it's not republican/democrats and all those republicans thinking of running in 2016 are going to be looking at the generational split, the fact that this is so clearly divided on generational lines that you have young republicans and young democrats saying this is what the country has to do. it's striking you listen to the language, shut your eyes and listen to the language out of the supreme court yesterday and 50 years ago people were saying the same things about a black and white person marrying and putting it in moral terms and it's changed. >> it's not a generational divide. sometimes there are racial divides. a lot of people in 2008 said yes, we can, barack obama, 2008 and yet, it was african-american voters and minority voters that helped pass a ban,
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constitutional ban. so again, it's -- this is not as clean demographically. there has been a resistance within the african-american community. >> that's changes. like most demographics more and more people are coming around to support same-sex marriage. you talk about how this is almost unthinkable. this would have been almost unthinkable eight years ago that we would be talking about same-sex marriage recognition by the supreme court but one place where we haven't advanced is the united states congress. there are seven openly gay members out of 535 members in the congress. in the house of representatives talking about proposing a ban on gay marriage to the constitution. in the senate it's a little different, trying to enshrine the protections that the supreme court gave to gay people into law. that's not going anywhere because it certainly won't pass
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the house. i mean the congress still remains woefully behind the american public on this issue. >> from one social issue to another, to texas, despite an 11-hour filibuster by texas state senator wendy davis who admitted last night she just might be considering a statewide run it appears to be just a matter of time before that strict abortion law becomes a law. in texas governor rick perry called legislatures back to the state capital for a week special session to push the abortion law through the state senate. james carville, texas is -- texas is a fascinating state. we're going to see changes over the next five or ten years. on this issue of abortion, abortion has moved the opposite way of same-sex marriage which has become -- americans have become more progressive on that social issue. you look at polls over the past five, ten years. i see you wincing. it's just the numbers, baby.
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>> no. >> no -- >> americans have become more conservative on abortion. >> the numbers on same-sex marriage have move considerably faster than the numbers on abortion. that's not a fair comparison. certainly the numbers -- the pro choice numbers has not moved up like the pro gay marriage number has moved up. i'll concede that. but it's not a subtle balancing. >> but i mean, are you not surprised when you see pew polls that show more americans consider themselves pro life than pro choice. >> i've looked at these polls a thousand times. it's the way you ask the question you can get the answer you want. i am saying this, i agree with you -- >> i've never seen the numbers look the way they have on abortion. >> the numbers on abortion have not moved like on gay marriage. >> they're moving? >> i'll put aside -- at best -- >> you can't admit it. >> i don't know. >> keep moving then.
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>> the way the questions are asked. it's static. >> this woman wendy davis, like the new star. >> right. >> i mean i couldn't imagine if she went to beverly hills how much money she would raise right now. you would have to back up the truck to pick the checks up. >> katty, spectacular. >> all these celebrities -- >> spectacular evidence of how quickly things move in the internet age and twitter age. >> amazing. >> people storming the capital -- >> i think ricky gervais were in there. all the celebrities lining up to give her money. looks the part, she did this noble thing they loved standing there. there was something fantastically old-fashioned you can stand up and filibuster in a state house and hold up a legislation, but where does she go from now? >> last democrat to win. >> maybe enough to make her a celebrity in the democratic party in texas, not sure how that -- how far that gets you?
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>> i think a democrat won last time in 1994. >> that was it. >> this could be like a republican having a filibuster having success in the california legislation. texas is moving purple. >> immigration reform and texas moving more purple, democrat has little bit more of a chance perhaps in that state. >> texas has not -- look, georgia is moving faster than texas. that's the untold story. if anything, south carolina is moving faster. texas is still a way's off. that was -- that woman has got an interesting story. i don't know if she will be governor but sure got a story to tell. >> wendy davis is the star because she did the filibuster but let's talk about the people who stormed the capital and were cheering. the reason why the bill -- the measure didn't pass the first time was because of all the cheering in the gallery. they couldn't get the vote done. for me, while wendy davis is, you know, a star and she's a hero in the central figure in this drama, the people in texas who you see in the video going,
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climbing the stairs who filled that rotunda, filled the statehouse and were chanting, to me it was democracy in action. it was no longer the, you know, voters who are hanging back and lethargic about this. >> i wonder what everybody would be saying on this network and others if those were pro life people running up the hill, following michele bachmann or -- i'm just curious. would that be democracy in action or an angry mob? >> i think an angry mob. >> yeah. >> i think you're right. >> i think it would be called an angry mob. again, listen i'm personally -- personally i'm excited whenever anybody does. let's admit when jeremy said, when conservatives do this they're an angry mob and when liberals do it it's democracy in action. >> nothing compared to what happened in wisconsin. they're camped out in the capital for weeks and weeks.
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>> occupy madison. >> the point you made about the supreme court and conservatives looking at the roberts' court as embracing too many liberal social issues. this could end up back before the supreme court. all these laws passing in states restricting abortion access many of them are being litigated with prot life people hoping they end up back before the supreme court. but you know, by the time it gets there, with justice kennedy as a swing vote not always voted consistently on the pro choice side of things. >> on any side. >> yes. >> he's amazing. >> that could be the next big supreme court fight on a social issue. >> he certainly -- kennedy, more progressive on these issues. >> yeah. >> but on obama care, shocking to a lot of people he was the one that -- giving roberts the most hell for wanting to uphold obama care. >> scalia's dissent was interesting. they believe that the whole thing unraveled when the laws, they said they were
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unconstitutional. that's the whole basis what a lot of conservatives think. that's a huge deal. the public is certainly against sodomy laws in any way, shape, or form. that is a big, big part of the scalia wing of the republican party's complaint, that it all started unraveling with that case. >> that would be a generational divide. i would guess most people under 60 don't want the police state to kick down doors. >> [ inaudible ]. >> under 60 -- >> are doing behind closed doors. we got a lot more to talk about today. the report out that the cia had four people that -- after 9/11 that were actually working with nypd without a whole lot of oversight. i can guarantee you that's one of those scandals that ain't a scandal because most people in new york city would say just four? really? we need more than that. we're going to be talking about that. also, i'm sure we're going to get the latest from paula deen coming up on "morning joe." senators chuck schumer and tim
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kaine joining us on set and congressman barney frank, also an exclusive with the head of the international monetary fund, christine lagarde and up next, the top stories in the politico playbook. first, here's dillon drier, a check on the forecast. >> joe, it is going to be quiet for this morning, but like yesterday when the storms popped up in the northeast we are going to see more storms redevelop. it is hot, it's humid. temperatures right now are in the mid 70s. 75 in new york city and it is only going to get warmer through the day today. we are looking for highs to top out well into the 80s, close to 90 degrees like we've seen every other day this week. we have the chance of stronger storms in the northeast. also in the southeast. biggest threat would be for hail and damaging wind gusts possible in all of those areas. but tornadoes would be isolated. in the northeast we are going to see temperatures today top out in the 80s. washington, d.c., once again, up around 90 degrees with those storms redeveloping later on today. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story,"
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"that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart"
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you never miss the fun. beard growing contest and go! ♪ i win! what's in your wallet? hey, time to take a look at the morning papers. front page of the "new york times" inspector general by the paper reveals four cia officers vetted in the new york city police department for years after 9/11. that explains a lot of things happening outside the window of my apartment over that time. one of the officers helped do surveillance on u.s. soil believing he could do whatever domestic spying he wanted since he was on unpaid leave. another cia analyst got unfiltered police reports sometimes with matters that had nothing to do with foreign
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intelligence. report found staff often gave direct aid to local police. many times without documentation. from the "chicago sun-times" our parade of papers, paula deen lost more endorsement deals following her appearance on the "today" show. that was ugly. this was -- this was almost tammy faye bakker on "nightline." walmart and home depot announced yesterday they're not going to place orders beyond what they've committed. in additional caesars entertainment will rebrand deen's restaurants in one of their four hotels. >> there's been some very, very hurtful lies said about me. the day i used that word, it was a world ago. >> do you have any doubt in your mind that african-americans are offended by the n word? >> i don't know, matt. i have asked myself that so many times because it's very distressing for me to go too my
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kitchens and i hear what these young people are calling each other. what you see is what you get. i'm not an actress. i'm heartbroken. if there's anyone out there that has never said something that they wished they could take back, if you're out there, please pick up that stone and throw it so hard at my head that it kills me. i is what i is. and i'm not changing. >> i is what i is. >> that -- that was tammy faye bakker. on "nightline" was it not? >> i kind of feel sorry for that woman. she just doesn't know what she's into. >> it's only because she fries macaroni and cheese. >> yes. >> soft spot in her heart for that. >> look, she's in an element she has no idea what she's in, canceling her left and right,
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can't believe what's happening to her. >> can i help her out? if matt lauer asks you some time in the future when in trouble, are african-americans offended by the n word, let me help you out. the answer is not, i don't know. who am i to say. the answer would be no! come on. come on. >> look, i'm just saying -- >> sounds like you're defending her. >> when you dug yourself in a hole the first thing you do is stop digging. the woman cannot take the shovel out of her hand. >> sales of her cookbook have risen by over 1,000% in the last two days. >> see the lines outside her restaurant every time -- >> and fans say they're going to ban food network and not going to watch it anymore. there's a kind of -- there's the core of her support not giving up on her. >> wow. >> no matter how bad our day is won't be as bad as hers. >> after two years in second place oprah winfrey returned to number one spot in the top of
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"forbes" most powerful celebrity list. earning $77 million over the last year. her presence on television and social media helped push her to the number one spot. joined by lady gaga, steven spielberg and beyonce. jennifer lopez number one last year dropped to 12th place. i have a question for all of you, keep those numbers up, keep that -- keep that list up, i have a question for you. deeply disturbing question, i want to know if anybody knows the answer, who in politics made more money last year than madonna, beyonce, steven spielberg, lady gaga and oprah? >> darrell issa. >> who in political entertainment? >> political entertainment. >> what tv or radio star? >> beck. >> glen beck. >> glen beck made $90 million, more than everybody on that list. >> wow. >> i'm going to go out back and
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kick myself now. and jim vandehei is going to take us through the politico playbook. jim, what do you got? >> i don't have the same beck envy that you have. >> i don't have beck envy. if you were making $90 million -- >> it is envy. >> how is that idiot making $90 million? >> is that just from his radio show? >> no. >> tv. best thing that happened to him is getting off fox. creates his own television network and dish has picked it up and he's got a deal with cable vision for the tri-state area. i mean you know when you don't have to split it up a thousand different ways. >> talking yourself into this, aren't you? >> you just get the big vent and suck the money straight in to your brinks truck. >> the scarborough network. i like it. >> so the historic week continues. all these court rulings and then immigration reform likely the vote will happen today, which is obviously big for the legislation. it's big for the moment, big for the issue. it's huge for marco rubio. and we got to look at his
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excerpts of the final argument. >> in a good way or bad way? >> well, i think time will tell politically whether it's a good or bad thing for him. think about the reason this will end up with somewhere between 65 or 70 votes because marco rubio i think smartly navigated conservative politics as well as you could given the modern state of the conservative movement to get this to a place where it can get 65 to 70 votes. and that is because of him, his credibility and i think because of the way he was able to navigate fox news and navigate conservative media. the question is, whether or not it helps or hurts him long term. we know his ambitions are to run for president. we know rand paul who also is running for president is against this legislation so there's a great juxtaposition. >> ted cruz obviously against this legislation. >> and they are going to beat him about the head, day in and day out on this issue. he'll never escape. those two guys will stay on him nonstop. >> he stuck with it, you should
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get some credit. it's hard to be in the republican party in congress when you have the base hating the bill you're working on. you're taking a constant beating inside the senate. >> by the time it passes the senate in its final version, will we be talking about legalization or will we be talking about citizenship. >> talking about citizenship that will take a long time to get to, 13 to 14 years by the time people can get to the point that everybody wants with the ultimate aim of this legislation. the question i have and we talk about this on the show all the time, i'm skeptical it becomes law in the next two years. i think the house republicans are much more opposed to it, much in this opposition stronger than people realize and john boehner has said, i need to have half of my conference on board to bring this to the floor. as of right now they're not close to half of the conference. >> good way for john boehner to go into retirement early, is by striking a deal with democrats on immigration, james carville, and saying i'm going to just --
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we don't need a majority. we're going to cobble together the coalition. the caucus won't stand for it because a lot of men and women in that house caucus believe that, like laura engram always says, this is a sellout of the republican party. >> yes. it's going to be a choice he's going to have to make. a majority of the house would vote for this yesterday. i mean they have -- we're talking about the house. to some extent there's an argument that you are going around with democracy really is because they clearly got enough votes to pass it now. for our viewers, the rule that the house republicans had they will not bring up anything that doesn't have a majority of the republicans which they'll never get. >> they've been burned on that the last week with the farm bill when he tried to cobble together a coalition with democrats and the democrats abandoned him, according to boehner, and ended up looking foolish. >> right. i mean, the question is, is does john boehner really want to be speaker or does he want an immigration bill that will be
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better for the long-term health of the party? >> let me think about that for a second. he wants to be speaker. >> you think so? >> ding ding ding. >> i believe that is the correct answer. >> he doesn't seem to be having a lot of fun in his job these days. i don't have any read into whether or not he's looking at leaving after his current term or a little further on out, but i think there's some talk that boehner could put this bill on the floor eventually and then just kind of say that's it. i did this and -- but we say that every time that we're talking ability the debt limit, talking ability the budget, any controversy of what we say boehner could do that and i'm going to throw it out there. he's made it clear he's stated publicly he's not going to do that he needs 50% of the conference on board to do it and i don't think there's any chance he's going to break that. the challenge is going to be can a marco rubio and boehner work
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together, can they get bill o'reilly, get a number of house republicans to change their mind? almost every house republican i talk to is like, looks at me like i'm on drugs. why would i change my mind? >> yeah. >> these guys go back to their districts. when you talk to them and they go back, they're like, are you crazy? people stand up and saying we're going to legalize people, here legally we're breaking -- what are you doing? >> primary. >> the thing is too, they will get primary. and you know the thing is, we all sit around here and everybody is talking about the immigration bill and talking about in the senate, but once it goes to the house, james is exactly right. a lot of americans believe that this is amnesty. don't believe that people that came here illegally should get special rights over people that are waiting to try to do it the right way. that is a hard argument for republicans to make in their own district and the idea that we the media say this is the best thing for the republican party, and the long run, there are a
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lot of people who believe this is a poison pill and if the republican party swallows it now they're going to be overwhelmed by a democratic that overnight if there's like overnight voting rights for a demographic that's overwhelmingly democratic that will hurt the republican party. so that's what house members are telling, you know, all of us. >> and the practical political argument for the republican establishment to say we have to pass immigration reform is that we don't want to alienate future generations of hispanics. that means that they have to be seen to get some benefit from passing immigration reform. they have to get some credence amongst the voting population that the republicans were on board with this, tried to get it ahead and the proponents of immigration reform are concerned the republicans are getting no benefit, not seen as helping this in any way at all, that they're going to start to say listen we're not going to get benefit from this, the public doesn't think we're on board why should we pass this because
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we're handing -- >> the last republican nominee in 2012's immigration position was self-deportation. that's what you had to be for to get through the republican primary. >> and if you -- >> that's what he thought he had to be for. mitt romney never had the courage to stand up and -- >> he was never really for it but that's what he thought he had to say to get through the primaries. that's where you are. >> the tone of the debate from 2016 will not reflect that. apart from rand paul and ted cruz all of the serious contenders on the republican side for the presidency are in favor of immigration reform. >> another astonishing thing about the immigration bill that hasn't gotten enough coverage the compromise that came up with the secure the border is astonishing. we're going to militarize the border in no way people were talking about, spend gobs of money and conservatives would say it's not enough. we have a healthy and
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well-reasoned skepticism that government will do any of those things and we want to see it verified before we do the rest of immigration reform. the contents of that border security package are astonishing. >> still conservatives that say no matter how good this bill is for latinos it's not going to help them in the short term. >> no. probably won't benefit them in the short run, long run. if george w. bush had passed it back in 2007, republicans would have got a benefit from it. but they won't now. >> thanks for coming by. >> thanks for having me. >> good luck making your first $90 million next year. >> i'm almost there. >> this politico start-up is about to take off. patriots tight end aaron hernandez is arrested and charged with murder. we're going to break down the case against him coming up straight ahead in sports. plus, baseball. i'm tony siragusa
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hey, brian shactman with us now. brian, some news out of new
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england, that obviously that we've been following for some time. >> pretty sad story, actually, all around. after days of searching woods, ponds and an industrial park, aaron hernandez has. arrested and charged with murder. dressed in a white t-shirt and shorts he was led out of his home yesterday. a short time later arraigned and charged in the death of friend and semi pro football player odin lloyd. hernandez was released by the new england patriots who last year signed him to a long-term contract worth $40 million. $16 million of that guys guaranteed. >> wow. >> yankees gm brian cashman by the way maybe a little less morbid story but one that's making headlines as well. walking back his comments from yesterday when he told a-rod to shut the blank up. well in an interview with reporter cashman said, quote, i regret the choice of words i used. i popped. >> you know what else he said? he borrowed from paula deen and said you know what, i --
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>> regret. >> i didn't know baseball players didn't like to be told to shut the blank up. >> yeah. >> he's not throwing any stones. >> yeah. >> not throwing any stones. of course not. >> the best line i heard, he doesn't have to like them but he still has to pay him. he's got to deal with that. he basically had more than that to worry about. the yankees lost mark teixeira for a year. he got hurt in the world baseball classic. didn't get hurt working for the yankees. they are doubly mad about that one. >> just his wrist injury. new york media, they've been saying since, you know, april, it's going to be three weeks, four weeks top and now lost this guy, one of their biggest sluggers, for the year. the yankees have -- they're paying more people to not play a higher amount of money than probably 20 baseball teams. >> a lot of money -- the amount of money they're committing to hurt players is about what glen
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beck made last year. >> that's a lot of money! >> yes, it is. >> that is a lot of money. >> to wimbledon and in light of yesterday's conversation with sharapova, two huge stars went down at wimbledon. first federer, roger federer, he had been in 36 consecutive grand slam quarterfinals, he's out. 116th sergei stacoughski knocked federer out in four sets and then on the women's side, sharapova, looking forward to maybe a battle with serena in the finals, is out too lost to the 131st ranked player, michele di brshgs ito of portugal. men and women out, six former number one players out. and you have djokovic and serena williams hopefully won't get bounced later today. >> that has to be devastating for sharapova being in the news and controversial and getting
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knocked out early. her frustrations continue. >> did not deliver. i think serena would have beaten her pretty good, but you wanted to at least see it. >> oh, yeah. no doubt about it. thanks, brian. coming up next, virginia senator tim kaine says the president should step in to block the keystone pipeline. we're going to ask him what that's all about. does terry mckau la have what it takes to top ken kuch nelly in the virginia governor's race. that and more on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪
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how is the adjustment going from being governor to senator? never asked. i have never asked a former governor. >> oh, now. >> how -- what it's like being a senator without them laughing at me and saying it's just -- it's terrible. >> i may be the exception to the rule. >> are you really? >> there are things about governor i like better, but i tell you, the governor is an executive job, senate is an expertise job. pick a couple areas you really care about and dig into them and there's a lot of satisfaction there. i have great committees, armed services, budget, foreign relations, great staff, i'm enjoying it. >> you wrote on tiedwaternews.com obama should block the keystone pipeline. i'm a pro pipeline senator. as a former mayor of richmond a city with gas utility it makes sense to be anti-pipeline. >> no sense. >> no sense. >> would you like to just read this, governor, turned senator? i oppose the keystone xl project. although the president's decision is technically over whether to allow a pipeline to
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deliver oil from alberta to the coast of the gulf of mexico, the real issue isn't the pipeline, it's the wisdom of using tar sands oil. >> absolutely. i think maybe the -- in talking about it we've misdirected people. we're against the keystone pipeline. pipelines are fine. pipelines, i'm a natural gas person and like the new hydro fracturing technologies that are increasing natural gas. >> here's what we ought to do be cleaner tomorrow than we are today. that's what america has done since '05. greenhouse gas emissions in the united states have gone down -- >> so what's wrong with the pipeline? >> tar sands is a back slide. tar sands oil is about 15% to 20% dirty than conventional petroleum and the process for extracting and refining it is damaging. and i think what we ought to be doing is saying look, we're going to get cleaner every day and not back slide. that's what tar sands does. the president should say we don't want to do the pipeline because we don't want to back slide. too many cleaner alternatives we
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ought to embrace. >> i was in calgary and you're right, all the things they say about tar sands it's girth dirty to get it out, destroying the co2 he emotiissions. in calgary there's already chinese setting up, and they have no restrictions in the process of refining it. >> that's a challenging unit at the same time. not leading by going to the lowest common denominator. we play a leadership role in the world -- >> don't we make the earth's environment dirtier if we let the chinese get it without any regulations and if we get it, with our stringent regulations? >> here's what i say. let's invest our time and resources and energy in cleaner alternatives and sell those to the chinese. sell those to india building coal plants and we can do it across the -- >> chinese aren't going to buy it. they'll get it cheaper. >> you all traveled to china. they have major environmental problems too.
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>> they do is. >> the clean energy economy is a massive economy in the world and we need to be leaders in that and sell others cleaner technology. >> you think that's possible? five years ago, i was talking about the importance of that. four years ago i was talking about the importance of that. but i understand the markets. you talk about natural gas, natural gas revolution. you can talk about the oil revolution. we're the number one of exporter of oil by 2020. we're probably going to be investing less in clean energy in the coming years because oil and natural gas, i mean we've got a revolution. >> natural gas isn't bad. natural gas has enabled to fuel switch from dirtier fuels to natural gas. that's one of the reasons greenhouse gas emissions are reducing. talk about alter nerve natives. over a third of the electric power put on the grid since '05 has been wind power. there are advancing technologies. not going to turn off carbon overnight. if we're using carbon let's make it cleaner tomorrow than today and not back slide. >> china is going to be dirty,
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whatever they do, we should do that. the senator has a good point. take a leadership role and the chinese are going to be facing the same problems you can't go in the cities, having a vast urbanization program, the particle pollution they have is up a gazillion percentent and when they get ready to go on the clean energy thing we'll sell them our technology. might be good business. i'm not persuaded by the argument that lowest -- we should emulate the most polluting place in the world. >> what katty and i was saying is that we actually -- the world's environment is going to be cleaner if we use that -- get that oil from canada and then we run it through where we have higher regulations than the chinese who are going to take it and use it. >> look, this is a tough issue. i'm going to be an ex-senator one day and people are going to ask me what did you do about energy and the environment. i want to tell them a story of american innovation, like cafe standards, fuel switching. we keep driving down greenhouse
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gas emissions and not back sliding. that was the heart of the president's speech the other day. >> virginia politics for a second. you left as a popular guy. i keep hearing the negative articles about bob mcdonald, they filter from the right, sometimes from the left. bob's approval ratings pretty good. 25 plus, 30. >> virginians love bob mcdonald more so than ken cuccinelli. what's happening to the cuccinelli/terry mcauliffe race right now? fascinating. >> i think the race will be close but i feel good about the democrats sweeping for the first time since 1985. tell you why. first why will it be close? 2013, joe, we're the only election in the country. low turnout and low turnout races tend to be close. >> chris christie but he has a 70% approval rating. >> we're the spotlight race. i remember from running in 2005, low turnout creates challenges and maybe a little more challenges for dems. on the other hand, terry has got a great ticket, terry has got a good story i want to bring
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people together, work together, deal maker. that's kind of the virginia way is to work together and keep the economy strong. and the ticket he's up against is just a ticket that, you know, first is mired in ethical challenges of their own. not talking about, you know, the headline that pops up about governor mcdonald now and then that ken cuccinelli has some challenges that are pretty significant ones and it's a ticket that is sort of a no compromise ticket. virginians have -- >> that's a way to say it. >> we were talking about the lieutenant governor candidate in -- >> in politics for a reason. maybe i should be in dip. >> i ken cuccinelli is distancing himself and ken has had said some things conservative, distancing himself from his own ticket, saying things wrought side of the mainstream of where virginia voters are. >> 30% r, 30% d, 30% independ t independent. even the rs and dness virginia, we don't register by party, you can pick either primary it's an independent electorate that ant
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wants to find people to work together. that's why terry is going to do well. >> senator, what do you think the impact of the supreme court rulings on same-sex marriage will have? because -- >> on the race? >> on the race? >> 2006 virginia voted for a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. >> i'm not sure it would come out the same way. it's fascinating. in virginia, we're so jefferson centric and going to be in fourth of july next week, all over the country people are going to hear the declaration read. we do that on the fourth of july. all men are created equal, it's going to have a sort of new luster and a deeper richness when we do that next week. next week 150th anniversary of gettysburg. and they're going to be there reading lincoln's address, the gettysburg address, nation dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal is going to have a brighter luster because of the supreme court's decision yesterday. >> thank you so much for being with us. >> absolutely. >> always great to see you. straight ahead barney frank in the green room. and much more of "morning joe." [ female announcer ] the best thing about this bar
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♪ coming up, we have david gregory, dee dee myers here on set and in new york former congressman barney frank. we'll be right back with much
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more on "morning joe."
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weddings. the only anti-anxiety medication that relieves the stress of attending a bunch of spectacular gay summer weddings. >> i used to be -- >> welcome back to "morning joe." that one is funny. even the second time around. james carville and katty kay still with us and joining the table the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. former white house press secretary under president clinton and contributing editor to "vanity fair" dee dee myers and former congressman from massachusetts and first openly gay member of congress barney frank. great to have you on board today. >> mika, you're here for a very critical, very, very critical event. and that is, of course, you still have the arm band on. she went to a rave last night. >> i can't get it off. >> and glow sticks. >> you were there. it was fun. >> fifth annual congressional women's softball game, bipartisan team of senators and
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congress women and they went up against the press. >> yep. and the proceeds to the young survival coalition which helps young woman diagnosed with breast cancer. >> look at this pitch, david gregory. >> look at this over the top. >> got good coaching. >> some of the pointers. >> exactly. >> boom. right over the plate. >> outside corner, baby. >> done and done. it was fun. >> and kirsten gillibrand's kids are so cute i can't stand it. >> they are. >> and the press won 11-8. they always -- >> that happens. >> never ever play softball as my mother taught me with a team that prints baseball shirts with ink by the barrel. big news right here. >> all over. >> every front page of every major paper. >> david gregory. >> republicans got what they want, a roberts court that is upheld. >> right. >> obama care. >> roberts' court that basically
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gave as gene robinson said the best they could give on affirmative action this week. >> that's too good. >> a thomas roberts' court rainbow rulings so says the "usa today." pretty shocking turn of events. >> it's striking. go back to roberts and this streak of pragmatism even when dealing with obama care, finding a way to keep a law passed by congress in place and here, recognizing that the country's really not ready to decide the question do gays and lesbians have a right to marry, given there are so many states that oppose it. but certainly paving the way with this majority opinion for a flood of new litigation to oppose the state measures that oppose gay marriage. you saw in the scalia dissent, the two real views here and this is going to be more litigation and certainly going to be the new battle line of politics. i think, you know, you've been
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talking about abortion this morning and voting rights and now gay marriage. we're going to have states doing different things and you're going to have the party's energized around the issues even though they're more complicated for republicans. >> right. no doubt about it. dee dee myers, we're talking about how quickly things have moved since 2004 when karl rove would put together with state republicans initiatives, valid initiatives, that would ban gay marriage in individual swing states. >> right. >> it helped george w. bush get the turnout. >> it's astonishing how quickly things have moved. from 1992, 1993 when president clinton was sort of drummed down by his own party on gays in the military to the early 2000s to now and a couple years ago no state had passed an initiative in favor of gay marriage and now many. 30% of the country lives in a state where gay marriage is legal. that is an astronomical social change. nothing like it in our lifetimes
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where things have moved quickly. it will continue -- republicans will have to trade carefully going forward to figure out how -- not to get crushed by the wave of change particularly among younger voters. and yet to try to appeal to the base which i'm sure is not very happy about the rainbow rulings. >> rainbow rulings. >> and implications of that. >> that's an alliteration. >> barney frank, i can't wait to get your insights on this and input. i remember speaking to you, we had breakfast at some point in the mid 1990s and you had said that a rally in 1993, had actually scared the hell out of middle-class americans and basically said gay and lesbians needed to figure out a way to appeal to middle americans more and my gosh, what a long trip it's been since 1993 but it's been a sea change in public opinion.
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how did it happen? >> it happened first of all because those of us who are gay and lesbian stopped hiding that fact. that was the key. >> when we were hiding, one negative stereotypes of us could govern because we had no reality with which to confront them. secondly we suffered pain, we suffered discrimination but kept it quiet. racial discrimination has been much worse in this country and if i could have frankly picked one decision this week, it wouldn't have been the gay marriage one. i wish i could reverse the terrible decision killing the voting rights act. i think there are still serious issues there in democracy. but the one difference between us, those of us gay and lesbian and african-americans is no black child ever had to come out to his parents. we were the ones who were able to kind of hide this. as more and more of us became honest publicly about who we were, our reality began to challenge the prejudice and more and more people understood these people that we're supposed to
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dislike were their relatives and teachers and doctors and classmates and that particularly happened with marriage. it is true, marriage was very unpopular a while back and then massachusetts, thanks to a courageo courageous supreme court justice and others broke through that and the reality of same-sex marriage in massachusetts in which zero of the negative predictions became true, eroded that prejudice and there's a self-reinforcing thing. that's why the pace is so quick. the more you have reality, the worse the prejudice. i didn't want to argue and still do to people on the left but elsewhere, the way to win is through the political process and the legal process. i have a rule i've given to many activists. if you care deeply about a cause and engaged in an activity on behave of that cause that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, out there being emotional and with your friends you are almost certainly not helping. >> you know, this is actually, david, this is the conversation
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that barney and i were having. we were talking about how -- i was explaining how the rally, you remember the rally in '93, right after the president, gay and lesbian rally and some really inappropriate things were said behind microphones and it scared the hell out of republicans and independents, a lot of moderate democrats and i remember barney telling me in '95, that's what he was -- said, come on, make you feel good? it's basically what i'm saying to my republicans, if this is about resentment or if this is about preaching to the choir, or if this is about making you feel good, chances are really good you're losing in the i-4 corridor, in the suburbs of philly, in swing districts in ohio. and i noticed and it's fascinating, i got to say this, i noticed after that, whenever i would have somebody come on a show that if they were representing gay marriage or they were representing gay
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rights, it -- that often groups would put up the most corporate looking, the most conservative looking, the most mainstream looking spokes people and i said my god, this is going to have a huge impact over time. >> let me give you a great example of how the reaction to do the most negative angry thing doesn't always work. the supreme court refused to make a decision in the prop 8 case in california, the effect was to let it go. they did make a decision and wrote what i very happy, wonderful opinion affirming that we should not be discriminated against easily in the doma case. now in both cases, the executives had refused to appeal. governor schwarzenegger and president obama. why was the court able to make a decision in one case and not the other and the answer was john boehner. when the president said he would not bring the case, he would not defends the case, the republicans in the house under boehner, then said we will step in and defend it. if you read page 11 of the
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opinion of the doma case what justice kennedy said we couldn't decide the other one but we can decide this one because the bipartisan legal advisory group the republicans in the house dominating it, made the argument and that allows us to decide it. we can thank john boehner and the house republicans for the most pro gay opinion ever. >> well, although scalia argued they should have used that same reasoning and applied it to doma, that there was really nothing in dispute there and it was, you know, what are we doing and somebody i talked to, legal adviser, said look this was classic kennedy, federalism but also individual liberty and the liberty piece is what's going to keep fueling this. the larger cultural societal point and political point is that people are just working through this because they know more people in their lives. they know people -- they know gays and lesbians getting married, starting families, adopting children. there are beam who are conservative politically, who may have a child, who's gay or
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lesbian. this opens up my world view. >> we've been confronted with the reality it's inevitable. >> yeah. >> and here's the other point about the crumbling away of this kind of opposition. you can be young, conservative, fiscally, you can be conservative even about abortion, but these -- when these sort of stereotypes break away on gay marriage among young people, that's what starts to crumble that opposition. i think that's what we have seen and, you know, we're only going to continue to see even among conservatives. >> this is not an issue in the democratic party. there will never be an anti-gay marriage person run for president in the democratic party. this is only an issue within the republican party. so -- but be clear about that. no one is going to run against marriage equality for president in the democratic party. there are few democratic senators that oppose this. so the real fight here is on the right. and they struggle. people like david points out who
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are very conservative, have these views, but say look this is a freedom issue, i'm for this and some people i think that genuinely believe this is the end of the world as we know it and they have to flush it out. >> challenge for the party. >> the battle will be whether you want to pass legislation that bans gay marriage nationally or whether you want to continue it on a state by state basis. >> let the states deal with it. to texas, this is an incredible story and i wonder if it would be the same if the tables were turned ideologically on this. despite an 11-hour filibuster by state senator wendy davis it now appears it's just a matter of time before that strict abortion bill in texas becomes a law. governor rick perry has called legislatures back to the state capital next week for a second special session to, among other things, push the aboring law through the state senate, alluding to tuesday's demonstrations following the filibuster and confusion that ensued the governor's office released a statement? which perry said, quote, we will not allow the breakdown of
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decorum and decency to prevent us from doing what the people of the state hired us to do. davis responded to those remarks last night. >> governor perry and lieutenant governor duehurst led the charge in terms of a breakdown in decorum. they have overridden and made a mockery of all of the rules that we run by in this state. what we saw yesterday was injury added to that insult where senate rules became meaningless. >> so overnight wendy davis has become the star. for the bill another filibuster is unlikely because of supporters of the bill will make sure it comes up for a vote before the second special session expires. >> all right. davis was also asked whether she's interested -- >> i know where your cynicism comes from. >> for the governor's race. >> there is a gubernatorial election in 2014. your state has not elected a statewide democrat for quite
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some time. are you going to run for governor? >> you know, i would be lying if i told you that i hadn't had aspirations to run for a statewide office. i love this state. >> james carville, decode that for us. >> yes, yes, and i say yes! >> i'm going to get in trouble here but that's -- she's a good looking 50-year-old woman. >> oh, good lord. >> you are in trouble now. >> i'm in trouble. >> officially in trouble. i couldn't help it. i'm not supposed to notice that kind of stuff. my wife is going to bite my head off. >> she energizes the entire state of democratic activists. >> she gave an honest answer. yeah, i'm -- >> that's okay. >> i always thought about being governor. better answer than just i'm fighting for the people of ft. worth. >> so rick perry is doing well in texas. third term is it? >> yeah. third term. >> his approval ratings aren't great, but he's doing okay. can a democrat win statewide?
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>> you know, it's tough. >> i'm going to have to be honest. i hope this woman runs. she would be a great candidate. texas is a tough place for democrats no doubt about it. >> is it trending purple with immigration, immigration reform change that. >> they can get there. a lot of good people over there, i had a long talk with jack morton a good friend of mine and they're pushing different things and the democrats are going to make a big run. build wl they're successful or not is another thing. >> what's the time frame? two cycles down the road texas more in play or no? >> i don't know. i think first of all if you look even across the south, more like four municipal elections in mississippi that turned out better for democrats than people think. georgia is i think going to follow before. >> south carolina. >> even south carolina to some extent. but it is very texas is going to be a tough race in 2014 for the democrats to win.
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i'm not saying it's impossible. at this point obviously they've got a good story, raise a lot of money. >> so interesting about all of this, joe and mika, what's happening in the states is really going to drive these huge cultural societal issues, whether it's gay marriage, whether it's abortion. the house had what was viewed as a symbolic vote. the states are taking on abortion rights in a big way. so we do have this patchwork set of laws now in states dealing with the unions. all these things are happening in the states and not on the national level which i find fascinating are going to go to define a lot of what happens in particularly the republican party on these issues. >> david, do you agree with jeremy peters and myself that if in texas, all of the shouting and all of the screaming had been from evangelicals, that were rushing up the stairs and screaming and chanting and shouting down liberal speaker, would everybody be celebrating this? >> democracy in action. >> flowering of democracy.
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i'm just curious. what do you think? >> and people be covering it with the same angle. let's really look at it. >> part of it is here is a pro choice movement in a conservative state. i mean that's part of the reason. i agree it's -- >> anybody who is watching that and seeing -- >> democrats never do that. >> it would have been -- that's always going to be covered sceptically by the press. >> come on. >> this was an establishment that was -- >> talk about pro life/pro choice. give me the last flowery coverage from any major network regarding a pro life movement. >> look, i think it's more anti-women than driving this than purely choice. it's like here's this woman standing there, you know, 11 hours on her feet and these guys all of them are guys, come up with these fake rules, fake violations of the rules, to silence her and i think that's what struck a nerve. i got, i don't know, how many e-mails did you get trying to raise money from this, at least
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25, from different groups, different organizations because there's a -- it's not all -- that was the mistake in 2012. those -- >> the todd akin it wasn't about -- >> if you're pro life you're anti-women. that is the go to for democrats. >> it's a good one. >> same energy that drove the energy around todd kay kin and richard mourdock. >> it's about taking women's ability to control their lives and voice away from them. that's what the energy is around this. >> you have to explain what do rape comments have to do with this? >> because this -- >> come on. that was such an overreach. irresponsible overreach on your part, dee dee. >> the same energy driving these kind of controversies. it's this idea you have a bunch of guys telling women about their lives and choices and their bodies. it's -- you can disagree with that, joe and say you don't understand it but there's a consistency in this energy. >> you know some of the most intense, now this because i campaigned in four elections,
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some of the most intense pro life people i have ever come in touch with are women. so you can be pro life. did you know this, dee dee, you can be aggressively pro life and be a woman? >> i understand that. >> do you really understand that? >> i know many women who are and all i'm telling you to take all of these arguments and define them narrowly is choice, pro choice, she was arguing against a restrictive bill on abortion, is to misunderstand the root of some of this energy. >> okay. i don't misunderstand things about this debate. i've been around this debate as long as anybody. i understand manipulation by the media and it has been a constant -- >> you don't think this is a genuine response from women? >> manipulation by the media to put a halo over pro choice activists and put horns over pro life activists. >> joe, that's not what this is about. >> yeah. in 2012 -- >> generally. >> that's not what this is about. >> hold on a second.
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this is the question i asked and i'm going to let everybody answer it and won't say another word. is there a pro life demonstration that has received the sort of positive glowing press and reviews as this? >> are you going to run -- >> the answer is no but the story is more -- it's not just that. it's this fact -- >> is it no. >> i agree. if you ask me the pro choice people get better coverage than the pro life people the answer is yes. the story is a little more complicated. in texas, this woman is sitting there in tennis shoes, talks for 11 straight hours. >> right. >> you have the whole thing. some dram a to the story. not just the media making it up and doing it. a story in massachusetts pro life senator would have stood up for 11 hours, it wouldn't have gotten the same coverage but it would have been a compelling story. there's a story here that's compelling. >> not the same coverage. i love you said that. i really appreciate that. >> joe makes a fair point.
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>> it's a fair point but understand what this really is, is a great story about political conflict. >> right. >> a dramatic story about conflict which is why i mean you all have been covering it the past couple days, where i've seen it in the morning. >> fascinating. >> and this is where, you know, conflict in politics tends to drive coverage about more than anything else. >> i think why we're fascinated about this case specifically is you go to bed at night, nobody's heard of this state senator, you wake up in the morning, and you see this explosion on twitter, be explosion on social media, you see it driving people to the state house, that is to me inspiring. so i'm not knocking what happened in texas. i'm just asking a specific question. a simple question. would a from life activist have gotten the same response? >> i think she would have gotten the same coverage on a different issue if the circumstances had been similar. >> a different issue. >> philly bustering a bill on shg --
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>> not on pro life. >> that was my -- >> if she had been -- >> tremendous coverage in a democratic state -- >> it's the conflict -- >> her standing up in a state that is conservative. >> yeah. >> that makes it different. if you had a pro life person standing up in a state that was democratic not the same degree of coverage but a lot of coverage. >> she's a compelling story. >> you got a good transparent conversation out of this. >> there you go. >> be happy. >> former congressman barney frank -- >> alex is begging. >> please. >> come on. >> please. >> hey, barney, ed markey, he's going to the senate, what do you think. >> i'm very pleased. i agree on that demonstration was out of line. when i was chairman of the committee, i did not allow people from either side to demonstrate and i think -- on the other hand, some people who are pro a filibuster that frustrates the united states senate decide they're against it. inconsistency on both side. ed markey will be a great
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senator. >> he will. >> you united. you did. >> you know -- >> you're good at that. >> like i said brought my w. mug. uniter, not a divider. >> on this issue. >> thank you, james carville. appreciate it. >> never seen that happen. >> dee dee stick around if you will. >> yes. >> still ahead, does the america have the market cornered on happiness. do we? >> absolutely not. >> are you happy? >> i'm not happy. >> i'm not happy with the way that was spelled. the cover of "time" magazine with a new poll that might surprise you. and up next senator chuck schumer and casey hunt. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story,"
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all right. 27 past the hour. i've got seriously, some great backup here, played baseball with her last night, she's good. she's good. along with kasie hunt, democratic senator from new york, chuck schumer, nbc political reporter kasie hunt joins us. that was fun yesterday. thank you for coming. >> it was good. >> good game. >> good game. >> new york senator did well. >> very nice pitch. >> i was nervous. >> you did great. >> i practiced a little bit, joe giving me pointers. he's like a coach. >> i'm not surprised. >> always throw high. >> yeah. >> never want to throw it in the dirt. throw high. >> don't bounce it. >> we raised good money for those who are suffering from breast cancer and also a lot of unity between the press and members of the press themselves getting along which is good, but also democrats and republicans and so many women serving and it was great to see them having a
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great time and see their kids. i stole another reporter's 2-year-old for a few minutes and i think i scared her. kirsten gillibrand's kids are the cutest things. like little buttons. so it was the young survival coalition by the way and it's for women diagnosed with breast cancer and look, everybody showed up. it was fantastic. senator schumer, we want to talk about immigration, huge issue you're trying to tackle but next week, student loans are going to double or something. >> some incredible number from 3.4% to 6.8%. >> how will people afford to go to school and educate themselves. >> they can't already. if you double the loan rate, every time a young kid doesn't go to the college he or she deserves to go to or at all, the whole country loses. this is a -- and yet the proposals that have been made would actually have the government make money from the students. it's absurd.
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>> when this seems like such a no-brainer when we look at the problems plaguing this country, innovation, progress, education, why is this an issue? >> because i think it's a classic and i like this sort of this as a democrat. classic case of where should government be involved and not. a lot of republican colleagues don't think the government should help middle-class families put their kids through college. willing to put loans out there only if the government makes money or breaks even. we feel the government shouldn't do that, help middle-class families go to college. the money you get back in more taxes, higher productivity and everything else is huge. i believe that this is an issue where the line is drawn pretty clearly and i think that eventually what we're going to try to do is do a quick, temporary extension, but i think we're going to win this fight and the loans will go back down. crazy to say that students should help reduce the deficit
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as they borrow for college. what planet are these folks are? >> i have a long-term concern about this because we're looking at a combination of student loan rates rising and college fees just rising at an astronomically rate. my 7-year-old if she does four years of college in the u.s. i will be looking at paying $700,000. we're going to have a total hallowing out of the middle class. you will get super wealthy people going to college, a few people on scholarships but the rest of the population won't be able to afford schools. >> this is one of the great future problems facing america. >> huge. >> the answer, the salvation, middle-class incomes are declining. that's one of the worst things, probably the worst thing economically about this country. what is the snaen the best answer is more education. if you make education so expensive, the vast majority can't afford it you will get on a vicious downward cycle and almost have a different america. if the middle-class americans can't think their children will do as good or better than them
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we have big trouble. >> we've been following the bill closely, procedural votes yesterday, you lost a couple republicans. >> we did. >> why is that and are you still pushing for more republican votes. >> we want to get as many as we can but we're happy. we wanted to get a significant number of republicans to vote for the bill at the low water mark at 67 total votes, two-thirds of the snafenate, we respected republicans not just in the gang. it means that when the bill goes to the house, there is going to be pressure on them to do something. we're feeling good about how we did. everyone saying you can't get 60 and then just get 60, 61. to get two-thirds is good. >> you set the bar at 70. >> 70 was our goal, aspiration and dream. if we could come close to 70 we would be happy. we're pretty close. >> you would have got 69 but for -- but what about the house? because speaker boehner won't bring the bill to the floor unless the majority supports it and that's not in the cards
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right now. >> people make a mistake. we're not going to get most of the republicans to vote for this because they're looking over their right shoulder at a republican primary and the narrow group who votes in the republican primary is vehemently anti-immigration like so many other issues. so far apart from the rest of america pro our bill. what we want to do is over the next few months is set the atmosphere so republican congressmen will go to boehner and say this is horrible for our party, everyone's on -- against us, it's not just the usual suspects the big liberals for immigration, we have the catholic bishops and evangelicals, the chamber of commerce and high-tech people, all the big agricultural growers if we can set the tone so republicans go to boehner and say i don't want to vote for it but get it off our back because it's bad for our party and the pressure is enormous we'll pass the senate bill. one of the things i would like to see is this is the next civil rights movement. a million person march on
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washington in the late summer or early fall. and who's on the stage? the cardinals, the business leaders, head of ibm and google, all these kinds of people saying do this for america and they're going to say oh, boy, i can't vote for it, but let it go forward. that's our strategy. >> senator, i've heard some advocates of reform saying they're almost concerned republicans will get so little credit for immigration reform because they've been dragging their feet in the end they're going to decide we're not going to get benefit with if we jump on board and the chances are diminishing as time goes on. they're not going to see the political benefit. >> i don't buy that. they may not get that much credit. we have kept our bill bipartisan. senator mccain and i and the gang of eight have resisted any attempt to make this a partisan issue. i was urged by people in my
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party come up with a far left bill and beat them with it. the only way to pass a bill is bipartisan. they don't want the hispanic community and all of america, business and religion, thinking their anti-immigrant. will they get huge credit? no. will they have the 800 pound gorilla sitting 2349s room and influence -- in the room and influencing the election off the table? yes. that's why they'll do it. >> that's an argument national leaders have been making and speaker boehner has at least behind the scenes been making. do you think he can corral the right side of his caucus? he hasn't been able to lately sfoots right side of his caucus, which not only on this issue but on guns and abortion and even on college loans is so far away from america the republican party if they continue to let them dominate will drive over a cliff like thelma and louise. he doesn't need right wing republicans to vote with him.
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that's the mistake. we won't meet the hastert rule. we just need them to -- the atmosphere to be such that says i can't vote for it, but get it off the table. it's too big a burden for us. >> talk about avoiding a negative what's the possibility and the ramifications of failure here of not coming to something? >> it's terrible for america. here's what our system does right now. we turn away people who create jobs. google one of the great american companies, what google maps is done vancouver, canada, they couldn't get the people they needed to run it in america but canada's immigration laws are lenient for lots of these high-tech people to come in. we turn people away who create jobs and at the same time, we let across the border lower skilled people who take away jobs. it's a bankrupt, broken system that hurts us. here's an interesting thing, cbo said gdp will grow 3% if we pass our bill. think about it it's logical. it's the greatest engine america
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had people who come from afar and work hard and pay taxes and create jobs. if we did this bill it would do more for growing the economy than the democratic plan of government -- some government programs or the republican plan of cutting taxes. >> kasie looks skeptical right now. >> immigrants work hard. no one denies that. >> all right. thank you so much. >> great to be here. >> good luck getting something done. kasie thank you as well. great to play softball with you last night. we had a good time and learning more about nsa contractor edward snowden. turns out he may have been against leaks before he was for them. that story next when "morning joe" comes right back. i think she tried to kill us. oh, i can barely move a muscle. i don't have any muscles left.
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you're all grown up. >> president obama in senegal this morning meeting with the country's president kicking off their week-long trip in africa. the first family arrived in senegal yesterday and were greeted by a long line of dignitaries. the obamas will remain in africa through july 2nd with stops in tanzania and south africa. right now president obama's not
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expected to meet with the former south african president nelson mandela whose condition has apparently worsened. current president jacob zuma has been briefed on mandela's situation and says doctors are continuing to do everything in their power to ensure his comfort and well being. a live look right now at pretoria where the former president is being hospitalized, people gathering to pray and await updates on his condition. and it's amazing what can happen over the course of four years. that is for sure. especially in this country in the latest headlines. in 2009, the nsa leaker edward snowden reportedly say people who leak government information should be -- oh, lord, shot in the groin. okay. that's just a terrible thing to say. that's according to chat logs recovered by a tech news site leaking information on him. snowden's comments at the time were in reference to an article by "the new york times" that described secret negotiations
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between the u.s. and israel over the threat of a nuclear iran. snowden went on to say the times was violating national security and those discussions were classified for a reason. meanwhile, snowden is unlikely to end up in ecuador any time soon. the country saying it may deliberately slow down his asylum application which could strand himself inside a moscow transit area for several weeks. all right, still ahead on "morning joe," with protests sweeping brazil, is it a sign of deeper economic problems in south america? we'll talk to the managing director of the international fund, christine lagarde straight ahead. are americans hard wired to be happy? are we. that's the cover of this week's summer issue of "time" magazine. we'll be right back. out there owning it.
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us from new york "time" magazine managing editorial rick stengel here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. also "the huffington post" stam stein. are you happy? >> so far. >> joe is not here but he's coming back. >> oh. >> and there goes my happiness. >> okay. . jonathan capehart, are you happy. >> reasonably so. >> i should say i'm ecstatic. >> good. >> katty kay, dee dee myers. >> you had divine. >> divine. >> all right. that works well as joe gets seated, rick stengel, take it away. your cover story is? >> the pursuit of happiness, it's our summer double issue and we're the only nation that has
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the pursuit of happiness written into our idea of ourselves and the question is, is that part of our dna as a people? and a terrific story by jeff cluinger with a companion piece by jon meacham about that declaration and the phrase pursuit of happiness. as a result, are we less happy because we feel we're entitled to be happy? and one of the things that jeff's story comes up with is that old notion of the easterland paradox that people are basically happy, they don't get happier when they make more money as long as their means of eating and shelter is cared for, turns out to be wrong. people's happiness does rise with increased income. >> that's america. >> but that's all around the world. the thing that's particular ability america is that scientists have looked at are americans biologically programmed in some ways to be biologically happy in the sense that it's a self-selected group, people who immigrate here and as
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a result they breed with each other, is there something in our dna that makes us pursue happiness more than other people. it's an interesting argument. and basically what science shows it's not so much the arrival, but the journey and the pursuit of happiness itself is what makes us happy, not necessarily achieving what our goal is. >> that's like getting ready for the prom. funner than the prom itself. >> here's what jeffrey writes. no american simply inherits happiness by doesn't of genes or birthplace or a brain set to sunny. happiness for a culture is more like a vital sign, the temperature and heart rate of a nation. like all vital signs it can fluctuate but like all vital signs it has a set point, a level to which it strives to return. america's happiness set point has long been high and healthy. a simple gift of biology, history and environment may be but a gift all the same. in our loud and messy way we've
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always worked to make the most of it and we probably always will. >> katty kay, i love when in 2009, everybody was saying that america was going to socialism, we are socialists and you wrote this great column column saying what would make the worst socialists ever. freaks, work around the clock. there's a sickness to you. socialist, no, not a day's worth of work, you guys -- and what about this case, because i hear roger bennett, from liverpool, he says i land in america and he goes i just feel this optimism wash over me. and he goes, it's strange. what do you make of this? >> it's true. you ask an american how they're doing, they say great. you ask a brit and they say "mustn't grumble." and, you know, there is certainly a quantifiable difference in levels of
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optimism. levels of entrepreneurship. they may well be this kind of drive that americans have. >> and to take a chance. >> the irony of america at the moment is actually there's less social mobility in this country than in much of europe and britain. americans still cling to this idea that they have it. they still say, i can get anywhere. and i can get further than other people in other countries. it may not be the case but they still believe it. >> wow. >> i like this. rick, you have also michael joining allen simpson and grover norquist at the national zoo as you hunt for common ground. that's a tease. >> yes, michael scherer, our white house correspondent, managed to persuade them to get together around their love of animals. it's a lovely story, but it also doesn't bespeak the fact they're going to find much compromise. allen simpson says you shouldn't go into politics if you're not
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will to compromise. grover norquist says some compromise is heading in the wrong direction. so they didn't really have a meeting the minds except they both liked the zoo. >> is it coincidental we had a red panda escape from the national zoo right around the time they visited it together perhaps? >> no, we arranged for that to happen actually. >> very good, great promo. >> the cover story of "time" is "the pursuit of happiness." still ahead, a big announcement about the department of agriculture today that could change the way our children eat at school. we'll talk to the secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm the next american success story. working for a company where over seventy-five percent of store management started as hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it,
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up next, we have an exclusive interview with the head of the imf christine laguarde. plus, a landmark day for advocates of same sex marriage. rulings on decisions on doma and prop 8. james carville rejoins the table for his morning take when "morning joe" returns. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card. it doesn't charge late fees or a penalty rate, ever.
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♪ i for one cannot believe the court threw out doma. it was passed in 1996 to guarantee that traditional marriage was between one man and one woman for the sacred purpose of getting bill clinton re-elected. good morning, it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. a live look at washington, d.c. with us on set, james carville, jonathan kaypart, catty kay and jeremy peters.
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james carville, we have come a long way since 1996. president clinton signed doma passed by our republican congress and overturned all these years later. >> i think probably the happiest person in america is president clinton today. i think he's probably not very disappointed. probably wasn't his finest hour when he signed it deep down inside. >> you know who's not happy. conservatives who want the court to get engaged in social issues. think about this. it's almost like the ghost of david souter and william brennan and earl warner rising. this roberts court now is going to be tagged by conservatives as saving obama care, saving affirmative action and -- you think they like seeing that? "rainbow rulings from the roberts court." such good alliteration. >> back to justice kennedy, he's just kind of one guy in this thing, but it's going to be
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interesting. this is really going to be interesting. the constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. who's going to sign up, who's not. who role is that going to play in the nominating process in 2016. because that's where it's going. when you go to iowa, these guys are not going to be happy about this. this is going to be the interesting part where this debate is going politically i think. >> you think republicans in iowa are going to support same sex -- >> i think people who to caucuses will want a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. i think they'll say take it out of the supreme court, raise your hand if you're for it or not. it will be interesting to see if the people who run for president raise their hand. >> yesterday aboard air force one president obama personally phoned edie windsor, the person who brought the suit.
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>> we're proud of you guys. in california and in a growing number of states, around the country, for your leadership, getting their equal rights. so you guys should be very proud today. >> the supreme court also ruled against prop 8. the law banning same sex marriage in california. and said supporters of the law did not have legal authority to appeal. after the lower court declared it unconstitutional. reactions to the day's decisions were emotional and of course they were mixed. >> today's a good day. it's the day i finally get to look at the man that i love. and finally say will you please marry me? >> i feel jubilation. i feel fabulous. i feel every gay word i can think of. >> what we now have today is a holy quintet would goes against
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the laws of nature and nature's god, and that's very unfortunate. >> that is something that god created. that is something that god will define. the supreme court, though they may think so, have not yet arisen to the level of god. and so we are here today standing four square in support of our constitution. and for the institution of marriage. >> so do you stand with michele bachmann, her position, or do you feel as -- >> congressman -- >> quoted, fabulous. >> the other gay word he was probably thinking of was divine. my reaction to michele bachmann is probably the same reaction that nancy pelosi had yesterday when she was asked about it. she was standing off mic and asked congressman pelosi what do you think of what michele bachmann said and she said who cares. wou who cares? the country is moving so quickly
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in favor of marriage equality. it's not just being imposed by courts as it happened the first time in 1994 in massachusetts or as it happened in iowa. it's happening with people now going to the ballot box and voting affirmatively for it. that's what happened in maine. that's what happened in maryland. that's what happened in washington state. and in minnesota, the distinction there is in november, they went to the ballot to say no to a state constitutional ban on same sex marriage. and then just -- >> so a really big change since 2004, james. think about eight years a nine years ago, republicans knew that george w. bush's margins could be increased if they put same sex marriage bans on ballots in swing states. you know what, karl rove was right. >> remember howard dean signed civil unions in vermont. and thought that was the end of the world. oh, my god, this is the end of civilization as we knew it.
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now civil unions just ought to fall back on account of this. i never seen anything change. a big issue change as rapidly as this has. i mean, it's just stunning, the changes in attitude. there's going to be some good political science, history book, written about this. i can't totally explain it. >> catty, britain, of course, the change happened earlier. but it's interesting, some politicians can get too far out front on that change. of course we saw in parliament some members of david cameron's party went out in support of same sex marriage and then pulled back very quickly because -- >> he himself, david cameron, conservative has been in favor of gay marriage, and he says he has been in favor of it. he did get out in front of the opinion polls. and you got a backlash from particularly churchgoers in the country from the angelican church in the country, also had
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a backlash. you saw it in france. to legislate in favor of gay marriage. you also saw a huge backlash from a rural conservative base of the country that didn't want things to move forward. in brazil where it was passed, you also saw some sort of backlash from the church and the conservative right. it's understandable there's going to be a backlash. as james said, this is moving inexorably in that direction. and it's not a party split. it's not republican/democrats. and all those republicans thinking of running in 2016, they're going to be looking at the generational split. that this is so clearly divided on generational lines. you have young republicans and young democrats saying this is what the country has to do. you listen to the language. you shut your eyes and you listen to the language coming out of the supreme court yesterday, and 50 years ago, people were saying the same things about a black person and white person marrying. >> it's not just a generational divide. sometimes there are racial divides. a lot of people look back,
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jeremy in 2000 and said yes we can. barack obama in 2008. it was my the moinority voters helped pass a ban. this is not as clean demographically. there has been a resistance within the african-american community. >> it's changing. i think like most demographics, more and more people are coming around. it's funny because you talk about how this was almost unthinkable -- this would have been almost unthinkable eight years ago, that we'd be talking about same sex marriage, recognition by the supreme court. you know one place where we haven't advanced is the united states congress. there are seven openly gay members out of 535 in the united states congress. in the house of representatives, they're talking about proposing a ban on gay marriage to the constitution.
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in the senate, it's a little different. they want -- they're trying to enshrine the protections that the supreme court gave to people into law. that's not going anywhere because it certainly won't pass the house. the congress still remakes behind the american public on this issue. >> from one social issue to another. to texas now. despite an 11-hour filibuster by texas state senator wendy davis. who admitted last night she just might be considering a statewide run. it now appears to be just a matter of time before that strict abortion law becomes a law. in texas, governor rick perry has called the legislatures back to the state capitol for a week special session to push the abortion law through the state senate. james carville, texas is a fascinating state. we're going to see some cannin s changes over the next five years. abortion has moved the opposite
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way of same sex marriage. americans have become more progressive on that social issue. the polls over the last 5, 10 years, they've become more conservative -- i see you whi wincing. it's just the numbers. americans have become more conservative on abortion. >> the numbers on same sex marriage have moved considerably faster than numbers on abortion. that's not a fair comparison. certainly the numbers -- the pro choice numbers have not moved up like the pro gay marriage numbers have moved up. i concede that. >> are you not surprise d when you see pew polls that more americans consider themselves pro-life than pro-choice? >> it's the way you ask the question, you can get the answer you want. i'll agree with you -- >> i've never seen the numbers the way i have on abortion. >> the numbers on abortion have not moved anywhere like the
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numbers on -- no one's seen something like -- >> but they're moving. >> well, i'll put aside -- >> you just can't admit it. >> i just don't know. there's a way the questions are asked. it's static. >> it's static, okay. >> this woman, wendy davis, like the new star. i mean, i couldn't imagine if she went to beverly hills how much money she would raise right now. you'd have to back up the truck to pick the checks s up, i guarantee that. >> katy. >> spectacular evidence of how quickly things move in the internet age. >> amazing. >> people storming the capitol. >> i think ricky gervais were in there. lining up to try to give her money. she looks the part. she did this noble thing that they loved standing there. there was something fantastically almost old fashioned that you can stand up and filibuster still in a statehouse and hold up legislation.
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but, where does she go from there? it was a limited moment. maybe it was enough to make her a celebrity in the democratic party in texas. not sure how far that gets you anyway. >> i think a democrat won last time -- '94 i think. this could be like a republican having a filibuster successfully in the california legislator. texas is moving purple, no doubt about it. >> texas moving more purple, democrat has a little more chance perhaps in that state. >> georgia's moving faster than texas. if anything, south carolina's moving faster than texas. is still a ways off. that woman has got an interesting story. i don't know if she'll be governor but she sure has a story to tell. >> wendy davis is the star because she did the filibuster. let's talk about the people who stormed the capitol and who were cheering. the reason why the bill, the measure didn't pass the first time was because of all the
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cheering in the gallery. they couldn't get the vote done. so for me, while wendy davis is -- she's a star, she's a hero in the central figure in this drama, the people in texas who you see there in the video climbing the stairs and filled that rotunda, filled the statehouse and were chanting. to me, it was democracy in action. it was no longer the, you know, voters who are hanging back and lethargic -- >> i wonder if everybody would be saying if those were all pro-life people running up the hill following michele bachmann or louie -- i'm just curious, just a side issue, would that be democracy in action o, or with that be an angry mob? >> i think it would be an angry mob. >> again, i personally -- >> texas, not doubt -- >> -- let's just admit what jeremy just said, when it's conservatives doing this, you're
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an angry unruly mob. when it's liberals doing it, it's democracy in action. >> this is nothing compared to what happened in wisconsin. they camped out in the capitol for weeks and weeks and weeks. this was a side show compared to that. >> occupy madison. about the supreme court and conservatives looking at the roberts court as embracing too many liberal social issues. this could end up back before the supreme court. all these laws passing in states restricting abortion access, many of them are being litigated with the pro-life peep hoping they end up back before the supreme court. by the time it gets there, with justice kennedy as a swing vote, who has not always voted consistently on the pro-choice side of things. >> he's amazing -- >> that could be the next big supreme court fight on the social issue. >> it really could. he certainly -- kennedy more progressive on these issues. but, you know, on obama care, i think shocking to a lot people, that he was the one giving roberts the most hell for
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wanting to uphold obama care. >> scalia's dissent was interesting. they believe that the whole thing unravelled when the sodomy laws, they said they were unconstitutional. go back to that. that's the whole basis. a lot of conservatives. that's a huge deal. the public is certainly against sodomy laws in any way, shape or form. but that is a big, big part of the scalia wing of the republican party's complaint. >> still ahead on "morning joe," $45,000 to market a bloody mary? $213,000 for ice cream? $15,000 on fish food research. that's important. those are a few ways the usda's wasting taxpayer money. we'll be talking to secretary of agriculture tom vilsack ahead. are the protests in brazil a sign of a deeper economic problem in south america? an exclusive interview with the managing direct of the international monetary fund christine lagarde.
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first, here's dylan drier. she has a check on the forecast. >> we are going to see showers and thunderstorms up and down east coast throughout the day today, especially later on this afternoon. we have several areas where we will see the risk of stronger storms. also the plain states where we could end up with an isolated tornado. the bigger threat here will be for large hail and damaging wind gusts. we're also talking about the heat. we have excessive heat warnings. death valley should go to 119 degrees today. the all-time record high is 127 degrees. we will get close to that, especially tomorrow and the weekend. it is hot everywhere across the country. we will watch out for those storms later on this afternoon. basically in the eastern half of the country. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story,"
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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. welcome back to "morning joe" at 20 past the hour. here with us now, the managing director of the international monetary fund christine legarde. katty kay with us at the table as well. welcome. good to have you. >> not much going on in the world, nothing to worry about. i tell you what, emerging markets, brazil looking great. bernanke's quantitative easing. everything's easy. >> that's right, there's nothing to do at the moment.
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>> so let's talk about bernanke's decision last week. obviously the markets here reacted negatively the first day or so. what challenge, does that present to you, does that present to the world economy? >> it shows a lot volatility. it goes back to may 22 when he started talking about the tapering. i believe that this, you know, unconventional monetary policies that have been the policy of most central banks lately will have to gradually, over time, with appropriate communication, transition to more normal monetary policies over time. clearly what happened, it was, you know, an announcement that took the markets by surprise and that was probably not as sufficiently grounded with information for them to feel there was certainty. but there is -- there has been some correction. clearly what happened yesterday with the growth rectification
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has reassured investors that tapering is not maybe around the corner as they had feared. >> "the wall street journal" said the day after bernanke's decision the markets reacted with volatility that the markets proved that they were addicts and that central banks were their dealers. maybe a bit of an overstatement. when the leveraging comes, it obviously needs to be slight and subtle. but there is a real challenge ahead. it's not going to necessarily be a smooth transition, right? the more traditional approaches that you're talking about? >> there has been history on this particular issue. and i believe that chairman bernanke is going to learn from that. he knows very well those matters. what happened in 1994 when there was this very sudden withdrawal is certainly not desirable. what he's probably announcing, giving signals, giving
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expectations and managing expectations, which is also extremely difficult when markets react so -- >> feverishly. >> that's it, yes. >> that might be the word. it was a feverish response. >> i remember we spoke a few months ago. it was over one of the looming crisis. there have been so many. you raised the question of american leadership in the world. economic leadership. and what this said on washington's ability to handle or mishandle economic crisis and what that said about america's leadership. do you think washington's doing a better job now? >> i think there's a big difference between what is being done in washington, you know, on the hill and what is being legislated and what the relationship is between the executive and the legislative which certainly could be approved and what's going on with the american economy. clearly what we're seeing at the moment is a 3 or 3 1/2 speed economy where the united states is in second gear, if you will,
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moving on and out of the crisis better than the europeans for instance. and having a more predictable and probably stable policy than japan. that's what we're seeing at the moment. but there seems to be that disconnect between what happens at the political level and what happens at the economic level. and one just expects that the two would be in better sync, can work a lot better. >> are you suggesting we have an economy we don't deserve? it's like one of my favorite quotes, there's a device providence that protects fools, dru drunkards and the united states of america. there is such a disconnect, you're right, between policy in washington, d.c. and our performance. >> and that's probably because the private sector in the united states of america is much more buoyant and large. comparatively with the european public sector relative to private sector. the u.s. has a vibrant strong
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agile private sector. much more so than many other advanced economies. which is why we the situation improves a little bit. when demand picks up. then the private sector reacts very quickly. you have a relatively flexible and adaptable labor market which helps as well. so i think it's for those reasons that the u.s. is coming out of the crisis a little bit faster than many of the other advanced economies. >> are you happy with how we're coming out of the crisis? there's a sta stiftic that came out today or yesterday about how ceos in america make 200 times more than their workers. that type of income inequality seems unsustainable in many respects. are you worried about the political ramifications? >> it's a big issue. not just in the united states. it's also a big issue in emerging market economies. you know, we have done imp
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impiriccal study that shows the more inequality you have, the less sustainable growth we're going to end up with, not to mention the instability of society. inequality's going to be an issue that will have to be tackled one way or another at corporate level as well as global level. >> there are some companies that are making the choice to pay their employees more than they have to. we're watching those. i want to jump -- we can come back to the united states in just a moment. to brazil. the protests we've been watching there that get bigger and bigger every day. what is at stake ultimately? what is the injustice or the inequality that is at stake in these protests? and what solutions would you suggest for the brazilian government? >> well, the brazilian -- i'll say a word about the brazilian economy, which has not done badly, you know, through the crisis, you know, last year they grew at 3%. this year, we're forecasting a 4% growth. which is not bad from a
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brazilian perspective. which has always been navigating more slowly than other emerging market economies. what happens is you have a middle class emerging out of this improved situation of the economy been and that middle class is probably keen to not just have some of the economic benefits but also wants to have a say in how the society's growing, where it's heading and how it's reallocating or allocating the fruit growth. it's interesting to show that not only is it doing reasonably well from an economic point of view but brazil is one of the countries that is often shown as an example of sensible redistribution with particular programs, you know, aid for underprivileged families associated with school attendance. programs that have -- taken as standards, good practice around the developing countries.
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brazil has a lot going for it. not only soccer but also all these other -- >> that's part of the protest. >> i know. >> i was going to get to the important question. should i start working now to get world cup tickets for next year or not? >> i'm sure you do, joe. >> will do that. it's so curious. we talk about the united states and the common perception is america's coming out of the recession in a better position than some of our friends in europe. and yet i read last week a remarkable statistic that when it comes to jobs, great britain's outpacing us. and germans are doing much better than we are. australians are doing much better than us. in fact, a lot of countries across the globe who may have lower growth rates are actually doing better on the employment front. do you know why that -- >> i'm not sure about the numbers. germany and the u.s. are pretty much tight.
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the same numbers. and the uk's worst than the u.s. in terms of unemployment. that's my recollection of it. >> as far as creating jobs? >> creating jobs is effectively doing reasonably well in germany. the latest numbers we heard this morning were much better than expected. and australia's a different story. australia is a developed economy with massive quantities and an economy that is pumping quantities into most of the asian countries. it's a bit of life of its own. >> isn't that a big challenge for all western governments now in a post-manufacturing world? how do we create enough jobs for complicated expensive humans when machines are cheap and getting better and better? that seems to be the unsolved problem of our generation really. >> unemployment and creation of jobs. growth with jobs to go with it. yeah, it's a major issue.
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particularly at a time when robotization is developing in many of these advanced economies. but, you know, there will be areas of growth. talk about green growth. that will be associated with particular jobs. for which the training has not been invented and needs to being an gra gaited and put together. there will be jobs associated with aging populations not taken cash of by machines. i think we are going true a major transformation that has to do with demographics. that has to do with pains we are inflicting upon ourselves. which we're going to have to cure. climate change will create jobs. it will crew jat ate disasters. >> in america much of our economy has been driven by growth of health sector jobs. i'm wondering in that void that you're talking about, usually the traditional wisdom has been
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the government has a role to play. they can come and they can spend money and try to spur economic growth. sequestration sort of cut into that. the imf released a report that sequestration is hurting the american recovery. how bad has it been for the american recovery that we've gone through this type of quasiausterity at the moment? >> we believe there has been too much deficit cutting, if you will. if you couple the normal fiscal consolidation, plus sequestration, it's really a break on american growth. while the economy's probably going to end up with a 1.9%, maybe 2% growth this year, it would be probably, you know, another .5% had it not been for this very strong fiscal consolidation. which means, you know, more jobs. now, i'm not saying that the government is going to create the jobs. but certainly the reasonable fiscal consolidation can create
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the conditions for the private sector to actually, you know, develop growth, create value and open new positions in companies. that's what we are saying. slow down the fiscal consolidation. don't stop it. it has to be done. slow it down. but make sure it's done also for the median term. we're not seeing well-anchored deficit-cutting policies going forward and that's important. >> on the topic of austerity, what did the imf learn from the greek bailout in 2010, attaching some of those funds to austerity? >> what we learned is we have to constantly adjust to economic circumstance, and development. some of the hypotheticals we had for greece clearly were underestimated relative to what happened. so we learned from that story, that we have to be very attentive to all the factors.
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not just the factor of one economy but everything else around it. because the world is so vastly interconnected. >> christine legarde, thank you so much. it is a pleasure to have you on the show. thank you for coming in. coming up, secretary of agriculture tom vilsack and his new effort for schools to join in the battle against childhood obesity. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility.
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all right. welcome back to "morning joe." 36 past the hour. here with us now, the secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack. it's very good to have you on the show this morning. we actually, we had the secretary come on stage with us -- >> at politics and pros. >> at politics and pros. we were talking about my book "obsessed" which is on the quality of food that we eat in this country among other things. you got up on stage and told an incredible story. here, take a look at that. we have that for you. >> i started out life in a catholic orphanage. the only thing i know about my first few days in life is i was well fed. because the picture when i was adopted is a very plump child.
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my parents told me that they went in the orphanage and they were looking for the healthiest child they could find and they figured the plumpist kid there. my mother went through alcohol addicti addiction. i ate my way through that process. my parents tried to deal with my weight by shaming me. >> that was an incredibly powerful story. i was really surprised to hear and really touched on some of the issues we talked about in the book. but it also shows why you do what you do today. and what you want to do for the children in this country in terms of how they eat. >> first, mika, i left that book store and i read it in the next 24 hours and i would encourage a lot of folkings wous who strugg weight to get your book because it's an inspirational story. children go to school every day in this country and we are try to make sure they have healthy
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snacks when they go to the vending machine or the a la carte line. that in turn is complementing what we've done with our early childhood efforts. this is a significant change in the way young people in this country eat and what they eat and i think it's going to make a significant difference in the health of young people as they get older. >> so you have smart snacks in schools. there are highlights to these nutrition standards. more whole grains. low fat dairy, fruits, vegetables and leaner protein. targeted portion size of caffeine conduct. they're all drinking coffee like it's water. that i know from having two teenaged girls. and one school year of implementation. just explain to us. that is going to be hard to do, isn't it? >> it is. we want to make sure folks have an opportunity and companies have an opportunity to change a bit of their formulations. companies are already doing this. states have already advanced standards like this in 39 states
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so this is not something totally new. it is an evolution. i think it's a significant one. >> don't you feel like you're up against -- are you providing incentives to businesses? how do you change the culture? because whether the schools or these snacks or not, you know kids can get them everywhere. >> i think parents want their children to be healthy and i think they're encouraging more healthy choices. i think they're demanding that schools support them in terms of what they're doing. so i'm confident that these changes are going to be well sese received over time. we know from research kids will buy healthy snacks when they're available. that's good news. >> and it is -- we showed 90% of americans support actually using k through 12 lunches to reduce obesity. so it's not a republican or a democratic issue here. >> there are some people, i'm thinking of one person in particular, who complained that these efforts, it's government reaching into your grocery
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basket and dictating what you can and cannot eat. what's your pushback on that? >> people still have choice and kids can bring snacks to school if they wish. they have all the opportunities during weekends and summer vacation and so forth. it's not as if we're restricting completely. we're just simply making sure that when they make a choice at school, it's a healthy choice. and it complements what we're doing with the school lunch. we have an obesity issue and a hunger issue. we're trying to there's both. our kids have got to be at the top of their game. they've got to be eating more nutritious food and we're going to make sure that happens in school. >> you got a letter from senator tom coburn would says the usda, at least, is not spending the money that it should be spending. bloody mary mix. $15,000 on the -- >> but marketing of bloody mary
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mix. in west virginia. that ain't nothing. >> put this in context because sometimes the good senator doesn't give you the full story. this is part of our market access program in terms of our exports. every dollar we spend in that program generates $35 exports and it supports nearly 1 million jobs. so this is all about agriculture exports. and the promotion. and also about small businesses. more than 2,500 small businesses received help last year from the usda to market products overseas. if we want to build the economy, continue to create wealth in this country, we have to expand exports. agriculturally one of the great export stories because we've had a great significant surplus. >> understand that but is it fair to say that maybe you need to look at where all the money's going to make sure it's being used in the best way? >> i thing you know you take a look at all the products we're supporting. all the companies we're supporting. i think on balance most taxpayers would say if you can spend a buck and you get 35
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exchange, that's a good deal. >> what are the actual real-world impacts if you don't pass a farm bill? what is your opinion on cutting back the amount of food stamps? is now the right time? do you think we should? or do we have an obligation to get that budget under control? or keep it where it is? >> one of the consequences of not passing what i refer to is a food farming bill is we're going to be faced with retaliatory tariffs from brazil. essentially we lost a case to the w.t.o. and they have the opportunity to retaliate against our products to the tune of $5 million a year. not just agriculture product, all across the economy. that's one kens againconsequenc failure in the house. there are ways to disqualify. that's a problem that not only helps struggling families but supplants farm income and
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supports the economy. every dollar in s.n.a.p. spent generates money in the economy. this is an appropriate stimulus, if you will, when types a times tough. >> good luck with all your efforts. really appreciate it. up next, an american ceo in china held captive by his own workers for nearly a week. is free this morning. >> that happened to us a couple of years ago. >> we'll tell you why he was released next. and cnbc's kelly evans with business before the bell. with the spark cash card
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choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. an american executive held captive by factory workers for nearly a week is free this
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morning. >> you remember when t.j. did that to us? >> he just did it to you actually but yes. >> i thought -- they told me that you were in a separate room -- >> sure, that's where -- >> they had put -- >> i wasn't with t.j. >> tcht .j. wrapped a cloth around -- so i couldn't really see anything. it was a terrible moment. >> the ceo of specialty medical supplies was held by 100 of his workers over a compensation dispute. the dispute started when the company moved a part of its chinese factory to india, laying off about 35 chinese workers in the process. it's not rare in china for managers to be held by workers demanding back pay or other benefits. chinese police were reluctant to get involved calling it a business decision. oh, my lord. >> let's go to business before the board. no evidence that kelly has kept any of her bosses captive.
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>> not yet. >> not yet. >> no, i'm sure david could tell a few stories. those workers in china upset about job security. back here, we just got some news on jobs as well. jobless claims dipped last week. a little bit better sign. the focus this morning seems to be on the may spending report we just got. it showed an increase of up.3. so it's let us fairly flat. it follows that downward revision to first quarter growth i told you about yesterday. a little soggy data which puts us back in the old kind of iffy news is okay news because dow futures are up by 75 points. >> cnbc's kelly evans. up next, jimmy kimmel's take on paula deen's apology. >> have you seen this one yet? it's hilarious. "i'm part of an american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers."
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"we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart" we're headed the same way, right? yeah. ♪ [ panting ] uh... after you. ♪ [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] it's all in how you get there. the srx, from cadillac. awarded best interior design of any luxury brand. lease this 2013 cadillac srx for around $399 per month, with premium care maintenance included.
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okay, paula deen lost more endorsement deals yesterday. anyone here surprised? following her highly publicized appearance on the "today" show. >> apparently big crowds outside her restaurants. >> walmart and home depot announced they will not place orders beyond what they have already committed to. in addition, caesars intertam
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entertainment announced they will rebrand four of her restaurants in their hotels. >> books are soaring. book sales up 1,000%. >> she is our tammy faye bakker. jimmy kimmel caught the "today" show interview yesterday. he's taking her up on an offer -- let's go for it. come on. >> she also offered an unusual challenge to her detractors. >> if there's anyone out there that has never said something that they wish they could take back, if you're out there, please pick up that stone and throw it so hard at my head that it kills me, please. >> well, you know what, she did ask for it. >> wow. >> that's not good. don't laugh at that. >> i'm not laughing.
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>> i mean, it's -- i'm not going to go. i didn't say it was funny. >> you're laughing. >> i'm laughing -- >> who let her go on television? >> i'm laughing because -- >> does anyone think it's a good idea for her to speak -- really bad idea -- i don't know. you look hot today. all right, up next, what have we learned today besides that. for the first time... ever... she let him plan the vacation. "off the beaten path"... he said. "trust me"... he implored. alas, she is beginning to seriously wonder... why she ever doubted... the booking genius.
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or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? supreme change. the high court's decision will make california -- what am i doing here? >> it goes back to california. we've had big news today. >> uh-huh, right, that's what we learned today. >> look at this, rainbow, the roberts court. so it's time to talk about what we learned today. >> not a lot of sympathy around this table for paula deen. none. >> should we have any sip pathy for her? >> no, i think you're quite right. she's doing just fine on book sales. >> i'm not sure she's going to be fine though. >> she'll be fine. i learned that kattie eats these
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types of pastries for breakfast but not in front of secretary vilsack. >> right over here. >> you see, there's a lot left on the plate. >> what have you learned, jonathan? >> i learned that christine legarde, director of the imf is as grand in person as i've seen her on television and in print, newspapers and things. >> top of the hour. >> it is. all right, if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around right now. it's time for the fix, baby, straight ahead. >> have a good day. supreme change. the high court's decision will make california the 13th state with same sex marriage in nearly one-third of the country's population will now live in states allowing those unions. we'll have the latest reaction this morning from president obama in africa. texas two-step. a lone star

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