tv Martin Bashir MSNBC June 27, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
martin, on to you. >> ari, that's why we love you and your legal mind. thank you for that contribution today. good afternoon, it's thursday, june 27th, and the dreams of 11 million people may be on the verge of being realized. . mand and man, wife and wife, man and wife, whoever you are, you can get married. >> you really have to listen to the music. >> washington is singing right now. >> if doma is unconstitutional, that means the constitution is gay. >> the happiest person today is bill clinton. >> that's a heck of a thing to say about bill clinton. >> you all have been trying to get me to take positions on immigration reform. >> the republicans will get so little credit. >> we're going to do it our own
way. >> we're going to do our own bill. >> with barbed wire, electrified. >> this is not good. >> it's fatally flawed. >> just sit back. >> this bill may pass the senate today. >> and give speeches about how i would have done it. >> have a nice happy july 4th. >> there is no summer slowdown in sight with another big day of news, and we are right now awaiting a momentous vote to pass comprehensive immigration reform in the united states senate. in a signal of the bill's historic significance, senators are being asked to vote from their desks with vice president joe biden presiding. after months of negotiations, amendment and debate, it's looking promising for the bill to pass the senate, offering landmark legislation to enhance
border security and, most importantly, provide a path to citizenship for some 11 million undocumented immigrants. just moments ago, senator marco rubio made a plea for the bill's passage. >> go to our factories and our fields. go to the kitchens and construction sites. go to the cafeteria in this very capitol, and there you will find that the miracle of america is still alive. that's why i support this reform. not just because i believe in immigrants, but because i believe in america even more. >> that personal passion was met with more practically minded persuasion by fellow gang of eight senator lindsey graham. >> tell me how it's better for america to continue amnesty, which is doing nothing, paying people under the table, with no regulation. this bill stops that.
it brings people out of the shadows on our terms, not theirs. you'll get to pay taxes like the rest of us, and get to know the i.r.s., welcome to america. >> okay. but even that did not quite have the entire republican caucus stampeding to get on board, as evidenced by naysaying poster boy senator mike lee earlier today. >> they said it would secure the border. it doesn't. they said it would be good for the economy. it isn't. if this bill passes today, it will be all bull relegated to the ash heap of history as the house appears willing to tackle immigration reform the right way. >> that's right. if the bill passes this hour, that puts immigration reform squarely in the court of one john boehner, who, as it happens, took his hardest line on immigration reform today, saying the house has no intention of taking up the senate bill, and that even a mere conference committee report
must have majority republican support. >> we're going to do our own bill through regular order, and there will be legislation that reflects the will of our majority for any legislation, including the conference report, to pass the house, it's going to -- and have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members. >> speaker boehner may want to consider that should comprehensive immigration reform fail, the blame will fall squarely on his shoulders. let's get right to our panel. with us from washington is msnbc contributor maria teresa kumar, who is president of voter latino, and analyst michael dyson. in a week of historic decisions from the judicial arm of government, is it actually possible, sir, is it possible that the legislative branch might just be on the verge of
doing something genuinely comprehensive on immigration? >> i'm afraid your right and that's a great thing. >> what do you mean afraid? >> it's a great day that the government has caught up with the passions of millions, that when we fling wide the borders of the country, we do not invite people who will undermine or subvert the integrity of the democracy, but rather strengthen in, and for those 11 million people who now have potentially a path to citizen established, this is something that should be celebrated by all americans. contrary to what some people feel, they're already paying taxes, already paying into social security, already supporting the infrastructure of this country and the economy, so now they get public recognition and visibility, and we are allowed to shore many our borders, strengthen the integrity of the democratic principles we hold dear, especially heading into july 4th, where we have talked about our commitment, now we put our
legislative body behind our commitment, and that makes all the difference for not only latinos or haitians or other people who have come here, but for all of america. >> and yet maria teresa, we know -- the expert in throwing a wet blanket on everything, speaker boehner, speaking a short time ago. he said the house will do its own worse, because, and i'm quoting him -- any form of reform has to be anchored in security. given that the senate already proposes a border that's more militarized than the berlin wall, what do you think that speaker boehner is hoping for? an electrified fence? wild wolfs and bears? >> i worked on the hill for a long time. i think he's asking that members of congress will ask for more pork in their district. this is what it is at this point.
>> really? it's nothing to do with border security? >> shocking, right? i think in all fairness, i encourage him to take it up. he instead will create something that will be incorrectly messy for him. hi possibly be costing his leadership and his legacy as a speaker as perhaps one of the most infective speakers we've had in our nation's history. what they're going to do is end up duking it out in a unsexy, without any media attention behind closed doors. that's, you know, is where the devil will be in the details. you have to applaud the senate, really championing this idea that yes, we need to secure or borders, but we need to bring out 11 million people, and provide them a pathway to citizenship. this is a big day. >> jeff sessions of alabama was
absolutely appear oplektic that more legal immigrants could lower wages for laborers. >> it's funny, i don't remember him being such a staunch advocate. what happened? >> well, you obvious discovered that conservatives become maxist when it comes to opposing viewpoints that they don't like. they did the same thing, you black people watch on you, because gay people are trying to take advantage of the movement. hey, they forget that black people were used in this debate early in the 20th century, where we were working and seen as scab workers and the white union organizers were seeing us as the enemy, this is an old tactic that historically throughout time this will not union mine labor. it will increase it. those people who are rp who were already engaged doesn't mean you're not working, number one. number two, they people will be able to be compensated at a wage that reflects at least in part
the integrity of their labor, which means that only creates more possibility for the american economy to be strengthened, because they will be paying into it, they will be deriving benefit from it and encouraging others to do the same. this is i think a false argument and straw man put forth by people who oppose the vitality of this bill and who don't want to see the great day come when we actually live up to what we talk about on paper. >> maria teresa, to the professor's point, seasonal it the case -- that many who oppose are in effect saying let es continue with two types of people in this country. one time that is legally accepted as part of the nation, and the other type, which as professor dyson has made the point, pays taxes, contributes to the economy in all kinds of ways, but basically they are a second-tier citizen of this nation. >> and basically
contribute -- -- underground economy, because they're not being paid fair wages. if you make sure they come out of the shadows, not only will they be paid fair wage, but so will every other american, because you have cut off the black market. that every sing the american now can compete fairly on a level playing field, because their levels will be accounted appropriately as well. >> indeed. professor dyson, i don't know if you're suffering with hayfever, because your eyes look misty today urges he's just excited. >> i'm excited over the great day. >> you're welcome, sir. just ahead, the history decision, but first she once ran for president, still an active member of congress, and michele bachmann wants to share her view of gay marriage. but is anyone listening? >> she essentially said the
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these are live pictures of the senate, as they vote, and we'll obviously keep you updated as the final numbers are tallied. but as wednesday's high court rulings came down, there were two distinct responses to the news that gale married couples will now enjoy equal status as far as the federal government is concerned. united statesably celebrations erupted on both coasts, but a
far more somber affair took place in studio a of the capitol visitor center in washington. there house republicans crowded behind a small podium to wring their hands, wipe the sweat off their brows, and pronounce that indeed the world had come to an end. >> collusion with the president and his injustice department -- >> people say why should i even vote? >> society itself is at risk and cannot continue. >> well, i'm pleased to report that it is thursday, and society has in fact continued. but as one brave moment that shouldn't be lost in the midst of celebration. 17 years ago, the day the house passed the defense of marriage act, a republican member did something extraordinary. he voted against it. steve gunderson, an openly gale man, not only became the sole republican to vote no. he took to the house floor to
explain why this vote was a vote of hate. >> marriage is under attack in our society today, but may i suggest to you it's not because of same-sex relationships. rather, marriage might be under attack because of alcohol abuse, because of spousal abuse, and might i suggest even sunday afternoon football. >> and we are delighted to welcome mr. gunderson, now the ceo of the association of private sector colleges and universe. good afternoon, mr. gunderson. >> good afternoon. >> did you think the day would come that you would see this key section of doma completely reversed? >> honestly i did. at that time i want this was unconstitutional. marriage was something that had been regulated by the state, and you couldn't have a federal law that would preempt states' abilities to do it and deny in a number of states the benefits of
federal marriage protection and in other states. it made no sense. >> so tell me about that day itself, july 12th, 1996. what was the reaction from your republican colleagues after you delivered that passionate speech and indeed after the vote itself? >> i think there's more respect on the floor of the congress. i keep equating us to more of a club or fraternity, but at that point in time i think people respected each other for their values and what they believed. i don't think i was ostracized in any way, shape or form for that. people saw it as a voice of conviction, and they respected that. >> do you think that was because they were so confident in the number that in a way one member of their caucus didn't worry them? >> do you think if you were the swing vote i might have had the same love and affection? >> right. >> probably not. >> do you still consider yourself a republican?
you reflected just now on the fact that you've noticed things have changed since 1996. what do you think of the party today? >> well, i am an economic, a foreign policy republican. i guess you would say that i have differences of opinion with those republicans who want a small government in everything except the social area where they want a big government to control everyone's personal lives. one of the things that frustrated me back then and still frustrates me today. can't we understand the difference between civil marriage and religious marriage? i don't know of anybody anywhere who is saying we should be mandating what any religion's theology or practice ought to be. this is a very different conversation. >> indeed. i agree with that distinction, sir. now today you work in higher education, presently student loan rates in five days are going to double if congress can't come to an agreement. if you were in congress today,
and you had a voice in this debate, what would you be saying to your fellow members of the house? >> i why say what i hope i said then. first, we need a permanent law. we can't be doing this every year. we're dealing with the lives and futures of millions of students. second, we need to understand that our loans need to be available to those who most need them, which is low income. therefore, we have to find ways to keep that interest rates as low as possible in some kind of permanent loss, so that everybody knows what we have. >> steve gunderson, thank you for your vote then and your contribution now. thank you, sir. >> thank you. coming up, a live report from south africa with the latest news on the health of president mandela. but first rick perry's texas two-step. stay classy, governor. >> even the woman who filibustered the senate the other day, was born into difficult circumstances.
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earlier, is conveyorly in speaker boehner's court. the world continues to watch and pray for the former south aft african president nelson mandela. while there are reports he's rallied somewhat in the last 24 hours, the former president remains in critical condition. i'm joined by keil simmons. what can you tell us? i understand his daughter said in an interview that he was somewhat responsive. >> reporter: that's right, she was saying that he is a fighter. we should know, right, from the history of the anti-apartheid struggle, that you underestimate nelson mandela, and the president says mandela looks better today, and zinzi is saying that he appears to be
responding when you talk to him. another daughter says, i won't lie, it doesn't look good, but if we speak to him, he is still there. he might be waiting, but he's still there. some positive news, and about how he's responding, at the same time, as you pointous, he's in a critical condition. >> and keir, as you know, the president of the united states is in africa right now, and he took a moment this morning to make comments. >> he's a personal hero, but i don't think i'm unique in that regard. i think he's a hero for the world. >> mr. president, you are not unique in that. but do we know, keir, if the
president is planning to visit with the mandela family when he arrives in south africa later this week? >> reporter: i think he will see members of the mandela family. to be honest, i would be surprised if he didn't. they do have very close contacts with him and with michelle obama. another question, though, martin, that's been raised today is whether or not he might -- he might come to the hospital here to see nelson mandela, and zindzis did say a formal a prop has not been made, however she seemed open to the idea. so we'll see what happens. >> keir simmons, thank you so much. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade
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difficult circumstances, here are today's top lines -- what are you wearing? >> the court has said that doma is unconstitutional as a matter of equal protection. >> today is a good day. >> great day to be an american. >> it is a sad day. >> a happy day. >> some may try to brand us hateful. this is not a hateful group. >> i feel fabulous. i feel every gay word i can think you. >> what are you wearing? those shorts are way too long. >> i am taking the decision on doma extra hard here, because i was in such a good mood after yesterday's great decision. >> these men that voted to strip the voting rights. >> it was a 5-4 decision with chief justice roberts joined by scalia, thomas, alito, and deen.
>> you have any doubt in your mind that african-americans are offended? >> which one of you convicts with the longest record can pass me the potatoes? >> i don't know. i have asked myself that so many times. >> am i right? say what? >> liberal racists are the absolute worst. >> particularly glad to see all of you this week, of all weeks. >> this legislating is being done primarily by men. >> i bring lawmakers back to austin, texas, to finish their business. >> you can imagine -- or maybe you can't, how a woman feels. >> even the woman who filibustered the senate was born into difficult circumstances. >> to be told that her feelings on these issues that, no matter how difficult, no matter the circumstance that she's dealing with -- >> it's just unfortunate that she hasn't learned from her own example. >> what's so disturbing is that
we don't seem to care. let's get right to our panel. joining us is joy reid, the managing editor of thegrio.com, and steve kornacki. governor rick perry says, quoting him, it's unfortunate wendy davis hasn't learned from her own example. it's also unfortunate that rick perry possesses the intellect of a dead rodent, but that doesn't diminish this woman's stand in any way, does it? >> no, i actually sat up until about 1:30 in the morning watching the entire sort of wendy davis filibuster, which was a true filibuster, the way it's supposed to be done, a talking filibuster, really brave. what was striking in that room is the disrespect that the men in the republican party in texas had, not just for her, but any woman who attempted to stand up and speak. another senator actually had to
say, what is it that we have to do to be heard here on an issue that has to do specifically with women? so the total disrespect for women's lives, and then to add to that, rick perry's disrespect for ms. davis' own personal story, sort of flinging that into her face as proof that she ought to be on his side, the republican party has to eventually under their brand problem. >> that was not a good night. >> this is a rant problem. hello. >> steve, it's one thing for rick perry as we watched her to -- as she was the child of a single mother, she had a baby while she was a teenager. but then here's his version on what happened on tuesday night. take a listen. >> they'll resort to mob tactics to force their minority agenda on the people of texas. i'm all about honest, open debate. parliamentary tactics are
certainly nothing new, but what we witnessed tuesday was nothing more than the hijacking of the democratic process. >> really? >> okay. >> a woman wearing a pair of sneakers and standing up for 12 hours was abusing the democratic process? >> through a filibuster, i would really be interested to see the reception that rick perry got if he went up to capitol hill and talks to the republicans about what filibustering is. >> you talk about the republican party's brand issue the presiding person, who was trying to shut down wendy davis is david dewhurst. he ran for the u.s. senate last year in texas, and was not
conservative enough to beat ted cruz. ted cruz is in the senate, because dewhurst was being the moderate candidate. >> it's phenomenal. >> joy, my wife in the past has worked as a midwife. she's a trained midwife. she said to me last night that son agrams are directly related to a woman's reproductive organs, and yet republicans last night suggested that ms. davis was in breach of the rules because of an attempt to reference son ograms? >> i think maybe someone should explain to republicans, a sonogram is a picture of the uterus, and it is directly related. republicans use son ograms as a weapon, and not only do republicans want sonograms, they want the most invasive even when not required, so they wield the sonogram as an anti-abortion
tool. they hope it will shame, intimidate or just embarrass or, you know, otherwise sort of force women to continue pregnancies that they don't want to. but for a woman to bring it up that's a breach of parliamentary procedure and decorum. >> and steve, governor perry has called for another special session starting on monday at 2:00. what does that mean in practice? >> in practice, what the republicans want is probably eventually going to get through. s i've been here for ten year that the future of texas is blue, and these are the kinds of events, like when you have -- getting attention across the country, this is the thing that has the potential to start to move the kinds of voters that
democrats have been saying that eventually texas will be blue. the more and more it appears, the more we're talking about the democratic future of texas become democratic friendly. >> does perry have a problem with women? he doesn't like planned parenthood. he's proposes the clouder of virtually all the clinics. >> i they don't have a tremendous amount of respect for women's opinionses, not a lot of respect for women's bodies and choices. on the issue of rape they're incredibly insensitive. rick perry, as goes perry, as goes the old guard of the republican party. his inability to speak coherently on this issue or be sensitive or even respectful of the women he's dealing with, i think is symbolic of the larger problem. >> joy reid, steve kornacki, thank you both.
you can watch "up with steve kornacki" every sunday morning, as i do right here on msnbc. we recall the historic passage of the immigration reform bill that just passed 68-32. senator chuck schumer of new york summed it up best a few months ago. >> we have support from one end of this country to another, some of the most liberal people in america support this bill and some of the most conservative and everyone in between. so we're going to get this done. in the coming months, or colleagues in the house will hear a drumbeat of support for our bill that will start tomorrow and won't let up. [ whispering ] uh! i had a nightmare!
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was on the phone with him just moments before the confrontation. lisa bloom has been closely monitoring. a key witness to the prosecution has been allowed to step down. you felt her performance yesterday may have been a little more helpful for the defense. what's your view of the evidence she gave today? >> she said she had a good night's sleep. she was less combative, but she was calmer, more responsive. and big picture is she stuck to her core story, that she was on the phone with trayvon mardan, and he told her he was being followed, he was concerned about it. she said at the end of the call she heard "get off, get off." very important for the prosecution to show that george zimmerman was the aggressor. >> she was quite robust today,
refusing to september the narrative that defense attorney kept inviting her, baiting her to agree with, but she wouldn't have it? >> well, that's okay. he's planting a due in the jury as machined. she did have to admission about changing her story a number of times. for example, get off, get off is something she told the jury -- el at the trial she said that, so it's a story that's evolved. >> he's trying to get the jury to think her -- >> defense attorney don west has had a few contentious moments is this a strategy on his part, or is he simply frustrating that she's not giving him the answers he's hoping for? >> he's a seasoned attorney, i'm
sure -- he knew exactly what to expect. what he's trying to do is show the jury inconsistianses in her testimony that either intentionally or unintentionally her story has changed. the prosecution has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. he wants the jurors to think twice about whether they can convict a man on murder charges with this witness's testimony. >> lisa bloom, thank you very much. and we'll be right back. he's serving his guests walmart choice premium steaks. but they don't know it yet. they will. it's a steak-over. steak was excellent. very tender. melts in your mouth. it was delicious. tonight you are eating walmart steak. what???!! good steak. two thumbs up? look, i ate all of mine. it matches any good steakhouse if not better. walmart choice premium steak in the black package. it's 100% money back guaranteed. try it for your next backyard barbecue.
whether it's the future of if the farm bill or the immigration bill, or a pathway forward on reauthorizing the voting rights act, speaker boehner has made but one decision. >> there have been no decisions. >> i think we're going to wait to see what our constituents have to say next week, and we'll make some decisions about how to go forward. >> we haven't made any decisions as of yet.
>> joining us is jan schakowsky with us this afternoon. >> good afternoon, martin. >> how does a speaker like that lead by indecision. >> we've seen with even with a farm bill that most speakers have been able tougts through, was unable to get through the house of representatives, in large part because of the very poor management, just doing his job poorly. >> wasn't it also the case that it wasn't brutal enough for his caucus, it didn't cut enough, they wanted more? absolutely true, a number of them are the chairs of committees, and subcommittees. he can't manage he caucus, and
then there was a horrible amendment that would have -- that once it got on the bill, democrats couldn't support the legislation even if they wanted to it's just a mess, and then eric cantor had the nerve to blame democrats. >> that's fabulous. but we've just had, and we've been reporting on our air the passage of the gang of eight's immigration reform bill through the senate, 68 votes, i believe, to 32 what happens now? given -- i'm assuming you have absolutely no confidence of progress. >> i met with louis gutierrez, who is really our leader on the democratic side, a group of seven members of the house, three republicans and four democrats.
politically the republicans are at their peril if they don't do an immigration bill. this is very dangerous for them so the question is, can speaker boehner gets a majority of his caucus to at least have the bill called? he said he needs a majority of the majority to be for a bill. another way to look at it, maybe he can get a majority of the majority to say call the bill, even if i can't vote for it, and we'll see what democrats can do to help pass an immigration bill. i don't know what his plan is. i don't know if he can execute a plan. now we have 7.4 million students who in five days are going to see their student loan rates double, and do we have any
progress on that? >> it looks like that rate will double. the only hope we have, after we come back, if there's some way to keep this stafford subsidized loan program at 3.4%, making it retroactive, but right now the republicans seem absolutely committed to seeing that loan rate go up about $1 thounz per student to 6.8% from 3.4%. we should be encouraging our young people to go to college, help them as much as they can, not just for them and their families, but for the competitiveness of our country. add yet doubles the lone rate -- you know, martin right now student loan debt exceeds credits card debt. that's how much money is out there in student loans, and really hurting our young people. >> we learned after the doma
ruling that congressman huelskamp of kansas wants a vote on constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. do student loans have to take a backseat to that? >> no. it seems as if they can't help themselv themselves. >> they say they are concerned about jobs, and certainly it goes against the supreme court decisions that are made, they can't seem to stay away from those issues, which are so divisive in our country. yesterday was a great day for freedom and equality in our country, rulings that the defense of marriage act was overruled. we should be celebrating that, and then getting on to the business of addressing our
economy and putting more people back to work. that's not where they're at. >> thank you, ma'am, as every. >> thank you so much, martin. well be right back with a live report on the president's trip in africa. hey. they're coming. yeah. british. later. sorry. ok...four words... scarecrow in the wind... a baboon... monkey? hot stew saturday!? ronny: hey jimmy, how happy are folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico? jimmy: happier than paul revere with a cell phone. ronny: why not? anncr: get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.
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soon after his arrival in africa, the president was asked about as international issue in russia, where nsa leaker edward snowden is believed to be holed up at a moscow airport. as a press conference, the president said he won't be using u.s. jets to get the man. >> no, eyen not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker. >> and nbc's kristin welker is traveling with the president. she joins us live from dakar.
the president said he has not called president putin, quote, because i shouldn't have to. it appears he's being very robust on the issue of mr. snowden. >> he is, and i think to some extent he's trying to downplay the media frenzy you heard him say he shouldn't have to, because they are going through the legal channels to try to get snowden back. he also said he want going to allow this one individual to rise to the level of his having to wheel and deal with the two countries. some of his critics are saying he's almost semisive, in part because of the sound bite you played. i think the president revealed one of his concerns that edward snowden has a number of classified discussions -- and
the concern is russian -- are potential looking through those documents, so i think there was a real concern, but certainly trying to downplay it in the eyes of the media. >> kristin, i have to ask you about the president and first lady's visit to goree island. he stood in what's known as the door of no return. i imagine this must have been a very powerful moment for the president and the first lady? >> well, it was, and he described it with that exact word, martin. he said it was powerful. that was the door through which slaves would pass before they were loaded onto ships. a number of my colleagues visited the spot. they said it was incredibly moving for them. this is the president's an zest real homeland. his father is from kenya, so
certainly a real resonance for him, and then, of course, just the level of being from the united states, and seeing this painful place in africa's history. i can tell you, martin, he will be visiting a number of history sites here. including the island have snellen mandela was held, and the world is watching as nelson mandela is struggling with his health. so certainly visiting these power selfhistorical sites is a big part of president obama's terrorist as he attempts to really renew his outreach efforts. >> very quickly, kristin, do we expect the president to visit president mandela? >> reporter: well, that's the big question. we continue to ask white house officials. the answer is they just don't
know. he's obviously in very frail health, so they are in contact with nelson man dera's people. >> kristin, thank you so much. thank you for watching our broadcast this afternoon. crist matthews and "hardball" is next. . good evening. back on the stand, for the second day. rachel jeantel, described as the prosecution's key witness, underwent a long and grueling crocks in the trial of george zimmerman. zimmerman, of course, is accused of murdering the unarmed trayvon martin last year. the defense attorney don west tirelessly worto