tv News Nation MSNBC June 28, 2013 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
right in this area right here. >> all right. and for the record, you parked on the upper right-hand corner of the photograph? >> yes, sir. >> all right. so you actually took the long way around -- >> yes, i wasn't familiar with the area. >> very good. did you see officer smith after you got out of your patrol car? >> yes, i did. >> where did you see him, if you could just indicate approximately the area you saw officer smith. >> that general area right there. >> all right. and for the record, that's in the approximate area of the "t." what was the lighting like back there? >> very dim, very -- almost dark. >> were you using a flashlight to find your way between the town homes? >> yes, sir. >> what were the weather conditions like when you arrived? >> misty, raining on and off. >> and what was officer smith doing when you first arrived? >> he had a white male at gunpoint. >> did you later learn the white male's name to be george zimmerman?
>> that's correct. >> and do you see that person in court this afternoon? >> yes, sir. >> and judge, if you can raise the lights, if you would. is george zimmerman the gentleman to my left who just stood up? >> yes, sir. >> your honor, the record should reflect the witness has identified the defendant. did you have any interaction with the defendant at that point? >> no, sir. >> why not? >> i was focused on the male that was on the ground. >> and the male that was on the ground, did you later learn that person's name to be trayvon martin? >> that's correct. >> and did you go over to trayvon martin's location? >> i walked towards it, yes. >> and how was trayvon martin's body positioned when you arrived? >> face down, his hands were underneath the body. >> and to your knowledge, were you the first officer to approach trayvon martin? >> yes. >> all right. did you know whether or not he was dead or alive at that point? >> i did not. >> did you know what his involvement was at that point?
>> i did not. >> did you give him any commands, trayvon martin? >> yes, i did. >> what commands did you give him? >> i asked to see his hands. >> and where were his hands when you asked to see them? >> underneath him. >> he was lying on his stomach? >> correct. >> did trayvon martin respond physically in any way to your commands? >> no, he did not. >> did trayvon martin respond verbally in any way to your commands? >> no, he did not. >> did you see any movement from trayvon martin's body? >> i did not. >> did you hear any sounds from trayvon martin's body? >> i did not. >> did other sanford police department officers approach you and trayvon martin while you were giving him those commands or shortly thereafter? >> sergeant romondo. >> did either of you attempt to get a pulse from trayvon martin? >> sergeant romondo did.
>> was he able to get a pulse? >> no, sir. >> did you and/or the sergeant remove trayvon martin's body after he failed to get a pulse? >> yes, i believe it was a joint. >> i'm sorry. >> i believe we moved him, yes. >> okay. how did you lomove him? >> we turned him right side occuup. >> to your knowledge, did you move or disturb any evidence that was around his body or on his body when you rolled him over? >> no, sir. >> did trayvon martin respond any any way either physically or verbally when you rolled his body over? >> no, sir. >> after rolling his body over, did you see anything that appeared to be a gunshot wound? >> after moving it at a later -- yes. after he was moved around, yes. >> yes, sir. where was that? >> it was underneath. he had a pin or a button, so it was underneath the button. >> all right.
he had -- are you indicating a button on his shirt? >> yes. >> the gunshot wound was near that area? >> it was right underneath the button itself. >> how did you find the gunshot wound? >> how did we -- we lifted -- well, when we moved the sweater, the button kind of lifted up so you could see it went through the sweater, so at that time we lifted up his sweater and shirt. >> all right. actually exposing his bare chest? >> correct. >> and you could see a gunshot wound or something that appeared to be a gunshot wound at that point? >> yes, sir. >> did you and the sergeant perform cpr on trayvon martin? >> yes, sir. >> and do you have cpr training? >> yes, sir. >> and did either you or sergeant raimondo ask anyone for anything while you were attempting to perform cpr? >> sergeant raimondo was asking for a plastic bag. >> did anyone supply anything? >> someone provided a bag to
him, yes. >> can you describe the bag? was it like a plastic type grocery bag? >> correct. >> do you recall the color of the bag? >> i do not. >> and do you recall who provided it? >> i do not. >> after receiving the bag, did you and sergeant raimondo continue to perform cpr? >> correct, we did. >> at any time did you see any signs of life from trayvon martin's body? >> no, sir. >> what was your role specifically in the administration of cpr? >> i was doing chest compressions. >> and what was sergeant raimondo's role? >> he was doing mouth to mouth. >> did rescue eventually respond to the scene? >> yes. >> and did the rescue personnel take over the treatment or assessment of trayvon martin after they arrived? >> yes. >> was trayvon martin pronounced dead at the scene? >> yes, he was. >> did you have any further contact or involvement with this
defendant after you performed cpr on trayvon martin? >> no, sir. >> and did investigators and crime scene technicians respond to that scene while you were still present? >> yes, sir. >> and did those officers and technicians take over the scene after they arrived? >> yes, sir. >> did you have any further involvement with the case? >> no, sir. >> all right. thank you, sir. judge, that's all i have. >> thank you. mr. o'mara? >> >> thank you, your honor. afternoon, officer. how are you doing? >> good. thank you. >> just a couple questions. you had heard as you were on your way that officer smith had just arrived on the scene, correct? as you were coming -- >> as -- as i was getting there -- >> right. >> yeah, he was just arriving on scene. >> because you guys are in radio contact, aren't you? >> yes, sir. >> so you knew that you were right behind officer tim smith to get there?
>> yes. >> could you even guesstimate from the radio transmissions how fast or quickly after him you got there? >> if i would guesstimate, less than two minutes. >> okay. as a matter of fact, it was so quick that the officer still had mr. zimmerman at gunpoint, right? >> that's correct. >> in a shots fired situation, when you come into a dark area like that, it's protocol to take out your weapon and control the situation, right? >> correct. >> that's not to suggest any particular danger coming from mr. zimmerman. that's just what you do in a situation where you have shots fired. >> that's correct. >> and that's appropriately for officer smith to have done that here, correct? >> correct. >> now, if you were to come up to me, how would you tell me -- or what would you tell me to do in a situation like that where you pull your weapon and are
trying to control the situation that you're just coming upon? >> i want to see your hands. >> right. you say that, don't you? >> yes, sir. >> okay. if i had a cell phone, do you think it would be appropriate if i had a cell phone and you say see my hands, to maybe go like this? >> no, it would not. >> or like this. >> no. >> what would you want me to do with that cell phone? >> drop it where it's at. >> why? >> that way we make sure we have no weapons and nothing in your hands. >> okay. when you came on with smith, did you take out your weapon as well? >> yes, sir. >> same reason? >> yes, sir. >> you don't know what's going on, do you? >> no, we do not. >> can't see very much, can you? >> no, sir. >> flashlight in one hand, your gun in the other? >> no, the gun actually has a flashlight on it. >> oh, so both. gun with flashlight watching what's going on. >> yes. >> you actually said in your report that you were protecting
officer smith, right? is that -- >> correct. >> your focus initially? >> correct. >> because he's at least a fellow officer potentially in a dangerous situation. >> yes, sir. >> okay. once you realized -- did you come to realize that officer smith had that part of the situation including mr. zimmerman under control? did that happen? >> well, i had my weapon out until -- well, i was having my eyes on mr. zimmerman and trayvon at the same time. we didn't know what was going on. >> right. >> as soon as he secured zimmerman, i went ahead and focused on trayvon, make sure where the threat was coming from. >> was there another person there? >> when we got there, or when i got there? >> yes. >> there probably was. i was mostly focused on security for the officer. >> just curious. we had some testimony that a neighbor had come out with a flashlight. it may not have caught your
memory. >> it doesn't, no. >> okay. because you're maybe focused on your fellow officers. >> uh-huh. >> and the interested parties. in that case, mr. zimmerman and mr. martin. >> yes, sir. >> okay. from your awareness of it, did officer smith have any concerns with securing mr. zimmerman? >> no, after he was -- i mean, he got him secured and took him to his vehicle and secured him in a vehicle. he was good. >> was mr. zimmerman compliant as far as you were aware? >> yes. >> did he do everything officer smith asked him to do? >> yes, he did. >> did he disobey in any form you're aware of? >> no, he did not. >> did you get a look at his face? >> no. i -- not -- i'm sorry, yes, i looked at his face. i didn't focus. >> sort of a quick glance. >> yes.
>> did you notice the blood on his nose? >> i can't tell you if i did. >> again, not a focus of yours once he was secured? >> exactly. >> i think you said a moment ago you shifted over to trayvon martin, who was off at that point sort of to the left. >> yes. >> okay. and it was quite dark, right? >> yes, sir. >> you would not have been able to see trayvon martin's body but for your flashlight. is that accurate? >> yeah, that's pretty accurate. >> and i think you testified you attempted to do what you could as a first responder to deal with trayvon martin. >> correct. >> okay. and you did not see -- did you see george zimmerman again when he was in the back of tim smith's patrol car? >> no. >> never even went over there? >> i -- not -- i don't -- i didn't make contact with him after he was secured. >> okay. just a moment, your honor.
thanks, no further questions. >> thank you. any redirect? >> when the defendant was come plying with officer smith's commands, was officer smith holding him at gunpoint? >> when i arrived there, yes. >> thank you. judge, that's all i have. >> thank you. may the officer be excused? >> yes. >> let me bring in lisa bloom and john burrs. we're standing by as the witness leaves the stand. interestingly, lisa, i'll start off with you. we have this officer. he was one of the first responders there on the scene. they talked a lot about how dark it was in the area and that's intriguing to me based on earlier testimony that we heard where people described at least what they saw, positions of trayvon martin and george zimmerman. >> that's something we've heard from almost every single witness at the scene, that it was very, very dark. we can see that in the photos. other than the occasional porch light or light from a
flashlight, it is very dark. when you add to that it was raining off and on that day, that explains why a lot of the witnesses really didn't see very much. >> you know, i want to play for both of you to respond defense attorney mark o'mara honing in on the witness' description of the positions they were in. let's play that. >> what you saw was the person on top in an mma-style straddle position, correct? >> correct. >> that was further described, was it not, as being ground and pound? >> correct. >> right? what is ground and pound as you define it? >> that's usually what takes place in that type of position. >> sure. so mma, to the extent you're aware of it -- and mma is mixed martial arts? >> correct. >> you knew it enough to start giving terminology like ground and pound to what you saw. >> it was the first thing that came to my mind. >> that the person on top was ground and pounding the person on the bottom? >> that's what it looked like, yes. >> so john, this is a neighbor. he's a prosecution witness there.
he was also pressed as to whether or not he saw any punches land. he said he didn't see that visibly. what do you make of this witness, and what has he done here today as far as setting the stage, or at least his perspective on what he saw? >> certainly from the defense's point of view, he was a very strong witness for them in the sense that he has trayvon martin on top of george zimmerman. there's some inconsistencies about how much he actually saw in terms of punching or not. it seemed like it was a lot of the defense's suggesting about the pound and ground event. i think the most important thing that i get from this is he continually at various times in his interviews elaborated, clarified his particular testimony. now, that was suggested as, okay, clarification. but yesterday when ms. jeantel testified, it was considered to be a lie, a fabrication. what he said was, look, they didn't ask me certain questions, so i didn't give answers, the
same as she did. there's no doubt from a defense point of view they got a lot of what they needed. it doesn't end the question, though, from my point of view. ultimately at the end of the day, we have ms. jeantel talking about the confrontation. we have mr. zimmerman confronting him, how they got into that particular position is another matter. then it raises the question notwithstanding that position, didn't he have the right to pull his gun out and shoot him with his life in danger? it was helpful for the defense in many ways. >> let me play another exchange with mark o'mara where he acts out this straddling position described by the witness. let's play it. >> the person on top's legs were over the person's on the bottom that was playing flat on the ground. >> now the person on top is over the top like this of the person on the bottom? >> i would say that's accurate.
>> the person on bottom was laying flak? >> he was on his back. >> at this point, what's the person on their back wearing? i'm sorry, the person on the top whose back you can see wearing. >> it was the same person on the top when they were t-shaped to the sidewalk. >> they did not change positions, did they? >> no. >> except the one on top in the black actually instead of laying down on the guy on the bottom was now straddling him, correct? >> correct. >> now, lisa, the officer just on the stand says when he arrived, trayvon martin was face down, his hands beneath him. he's essentially laying on his stomach. he ordered him to show his hands, as we know, which he did not at the time. trayvon martin had died from that gunshot wound. how does this gel with this version? how did trayvon martin end up on his stomach laying face down? >> well, according to george
zimmerman, he got out from under trayvon martin after the shooting and trayvon martin then went down face down. i think the clip that you just showed of mark o'mara was very good lawyering. it's very interesting for a jury to see an attorney crouching down, re-enacting. you know, it can be a long day sitting there in the jury box listening to testimony drone on. if you can do a physical demonstration, i think that gets their attention. so i think that was a good demonstration on his part. >> real quick before we go back to testimony, yesterday a neighbor testified after she heard what she now know was a gunshot, she rushed out and saw the man who survived the fight on his knees straddling the person on the ground. that was her testimony yesterday. >> you certainly have conflict in the testimony here. i think it's pretty clear from it that raises the question of what position was george zimmerman in at the time he shot trayvon martin? if he's flat on his back or laying in a semi-seated
position, it seems to me you must have an upward shot in terms of how that bullet went through the body. what i gather, it was a straight-on shot. that makes another area of discussion that the jurors are going to have to reconcile with george zimmerman's description of how the shooting took place. >> all right, john. thank you. lisa, thank you as well. take you back to the courtroom. this is stacey livingston. she's with the sanford fire department. let's listen in. >> was that item also in trayvon martin's sweatshirt? >> i wasn't exactly aware where it was. when i moved the shirt up, i felt it. it wasn't large enough to be in my way. >> all right. when you pulled up trayvon martin's sweatshirt, did you see any injuries? >> yes. >> and specifically, did you see what appeared to be a gunshot wound? >> yes. >> and where was that? >> in his chest. >> and what steps did you and
the other personnel take to assess trayvon martin? >> we put on a cardiac monitor. >> and what's the purpose of that? >> to assess the heart rhythm. >> and what was determined from the cardiac monitor? >> it was determined by the lead paramedic on the scene that it the rhythm -- i'm sorry, the rhythm was incompatible to life. >> and was trayvon martin then pronounced dead at the scene? >> yes. >> does your report -- does the report from the incident indicate the time that trayvon martin was pronounced dead? >> on the report that i have here? >> yes, ma'am. >> 19:30. >> 7:30? >> yes. >> and that was just a few minutes after you arrived, about three minutes after you arrived? >> yes. >> okay. at any point did you hear trayvon martin make any sounds? >> no. >> did you or anyone from your
agency transport trayvon martin's body from the scene? >> no. >> and why not? >> that wouldn't be part of our job. >> is that something when a person's deceased that's left for the medical examiner's office? >> yes. >> other than taking the can out of trayvon martin's shirt pocket, did you move or collect any other items on or around him? >> no. >> all right. let me ask you to look at your screen. your honor, would you dim the lights? thank you. state's exhibit 20. do you recognize that? >> yes. >> and is that a fair and accurate depiction of the way trayvon martin appeared after he was pronounced? >> we had his shirt up, but yes. >> okay. and state's 25 from the other side, is that also an accurate depiction of the way he appeared? >> yes. >> and state's 80.
>> yes. >> and state's 28. what's depicted in that photograph? >> the gunshot wound. >> and that obviously would be when his sweatshirts were pulled up. >> yes. >> all right. your honor, that's all i have for the lights. all right. after trayvon martin was pronounced dead, did you treat a man later identified to you as george zimmerman at that same scene? >> yes. >> do you see that individual in court this afternoon? >> i don't know -- yes. >> is he the gentleman standing to my left? >> yes. >> all right. your honor, i ask the record reflect the witness has identified the defendant. >> record will so reflect. >> where was the defendant when you made contact with him? >> sitting in a police car. >> and when you met with the defendant, did you talk to him? >> yes. >> did the defendant appear to have any difficulty
understanding what you were saying? >> no. >> did you have any difficulty understanding the defendant when he responded to you? >> no. >> did the defendant appear to have any memory problems? >> no. >> object to that, your honor. that would be speculation. >> sustained. >> since it got out before the objection, i would move to strike the record. >> ladies and gentlemen, you're to disregard the question and the answer. >> what is a coma score? >> it's a scoring system we use to determine the level of responsiveness of a patient. >> and what are the components? what makes it up? >> it has three sections for eye, verbal, and motor response. they each have a series of numbers, like a score. for example, for eye it's four, three, two, one. it would be spontaneous to
command, to pain, and to none. each section has a different amount of numbers for a score. >> all right. and what's the highest score someone can get, the most alert someone can be? >> a 15. >> what was the defendant's score that evening? >> 15. >> and what does that highest score indicate to you? >> it would indicate that for eye response it was spontaneous. for verbal response, he was oriented. and for motor response, he obeyed commands. >> did you observe any injuries to the defendant? >> yes. >> and what injuries did you observe? >> he had a very swollen, bleeding nose. he had lacerations to the back of his head. >> was the defendant's nose actively bleeding when you
arrived? >> i don't believe it was actively bleeding. it was still moist. >> okay. what did you do to treat his nose? >> we just tried to clean up his injuries to we could see them better to determine. >> and describe the lacerations you saw on the back of the defendant's head. >> i recall two lacerations, approximately an inch long. >> all right. were either of those lacerations bleeding? >> not actively bleeding, but they had been. >> and how did you treat the lacerations to the defendant's head? >> the same. we just tried to clean up a little so we could view better what the injury was. >> at any point while you were treating the defendant, did he stand up? >> yes. >> did the defendant have any trouble with his balance when he stood up?
>> i don't believe so. >> about how long were you treating the defendant? >> maybe five minutes. >> did you transport the defendant from the scene? >> no. >> and why not? >> it was determined that if he needed further medical treatment that the sanford police would take him. >> and after you completed your examination of the defendant, did you leave the defendant in the custody of the sanford police department? >> yes. >> all right. did you have any further involvement with the defendant after you left him with the police officers? >> no. >> all right. let me ask you to look at the screen again. your honor, thank you. state's exhibit 79. is that a fair and accurate depiction of the defendant as he appeared in the back of the officer's patrol car? >> yes. >> and state's 76, is that a fair and accurate depiction of the back of his head when you came upon him? >> yes. >> all right. your honor, that's all i have.
thank you. >> cross? >> thank you, your honor. afternoon, ma'am. >> hi. >> how are you? >> good. >> speaking about when you came in contact with my client george zimmerman, he was in the back of a patrol car, correct? >> yes. >> we just saw a couple pictures of him. the front picture i want to talk about first. you didn't actually do the evaluation, did you, on him? the sort of work up. wasn't that two other paramedics that were out there as well, correct? >> what do you mean evaluation? >> well, sort of who did the work up on mr. zimmerman to identify injuries and whatnot. what's mike brandy sort of in charge, in lead of that? >> i believe it was myself and firefighter kevin o'roark. >> wasn't mike there as well?
>> he was on the scene. >> okay. and when you did the evaluation, you noticed that the nose was swollen, i think you said very swollen, correct? >> yes, it was very swollen. >> okay. explain -- we saw the picture. let's take a moment to look at that. thank you, your honor. let's go down. great, thank you. >> which one? >> the one right there. thanks. so looking at this one, first of all, this does fairly and accurately depict his nose and his face, correct, as you saw
it? >> yes, i believe we may have even -- because we wiped it a bit. >> so it would even be -- well, was that before this picture, do you know? >> i don't know. >> okay. so tell me what you see there as far as his injuries, if you can be a bit more descriptive. >> the bridge of his nose is very swollen. >> that's off to his -- the right of the nose. that swelling area there. is that what you're speaking of? >> i recall both sides being swollen. >> okay. so the nose itself, maybe more on the right. the left side is swollen as well, isn't it? >> the entire area was quite swollen. >> and what is that just on the bridge of the nose sort of going towards his right eye? that little red spot. >> it appears to be a laceration, a small laceration. >> did you note that as well, that he had a laceration on the
nose? >> i did not. >> okay. how does a person get a laceration like that? >> i don't know. >> in your experience, is that consistent with getting struck in the nose by a fist? >> it could. >> okay. similar to the injuries to the nose itself and the swelling, are they also consistent with a fist strike to the nose? >> very possibly. >> okay. and do you see the injuries to what would be closest to you his left forehead? do you see those markings up there? >> yes. >> what is that? >> looks like an abrasion. >> okay. can you tell how that may have been -- how he was injured with that? >> i cannot. >> okay. would you agree that would be a separate injury from the injury to his nose?
>> yes. >> now let's talk about what seems to be on the tip of his nose. what is that? >> blood. >> and is that what you talked about earlier, that it was still moist, in the process of drying? >> yes. >> where was that coming from? >> his nose. >> inside? >> yes. >> what does that indicate to you? >> an injury to the nose. >> of what sort? what happens when the no nose bleeds? how does it stop bleeding? >> specifically? >> well, as best you can, if you can, describe how a shot to the nose would cause bleeding like that. what has to happen to it? >> blood vessels would initiate bleeding. >> okay. and those blood vessels that exist up in the nose, correct? >> yes. >> any idea what happens to the blood that breaks or escapes
from blood vessels when you're laying on your back? what if you had that injury and you were laying on your back? where would the blood go? >> you would probably swallow it. >> it would go back up into your sinuses? >> correct. >> and back down the back of your throat? >> correct. >> and then if you could, you'd be swallowing your own blood, right? >> right. >> you can put the lights up, if you would. thank you very much. the injuries that we talked about on the back of the head, similar, you saw them that night the same way, correct? >> yes. >> and then you cleaned them off? >> i did. >> you can see lacerations that you identified as being about an inch long each, correct? >> approximately. >> all right. not actively bleeding when you saw them? >> no. >> what is -- do you have a concern with head injuries?
when you see a head injury similar to this, what concerns come to you? >> concerns meaning? >> well, what medical issues are you -- if you were to see, as you did, those two one-inch lacerations on the back of his head, did you have any concerns or any medical condition that may be happening to mr. zimmerman because of those injuries? >> yeah, we had -- in questioning him, we asked, had he lost consciousness, had he -- i think he's the one that said he had felt dizzy. we just continued to question him about that. >> sure. you would be concerned as a first responder to possible c concussive injuries from an injury like that, when you can get a concussion when your head is hit like that? >> correct. >> and even brain injury. is that a possibility from an injury like that? >> possibly. >> and something that you need
to be aware of? >> yes. >> and you were only aware of that and concerned about it as you were treating him, correct? >> yes. >> reasonable in your opinion for somebody who's incurred those types of injuries to be concerned about their safety? >> i'm sorry. could you repeat? >> do you any a person who's sustained those kinds of injuries should be concerned about their medical safety? >> possibly. >> how about the nose? would that cause you concern about a person's medical safety if that injury was caused to them? >> possibly. >> did -- what is the normal procedure for head injuries and getting them x-rayed?
>> we -- they would have to be transported to a medical facility to receive an x-ray. >> sure. you can't get x-rays just in the black of your ambulance, right? >> right. >> so you'd have to take him to the hospital? >> if they choose to go. >> who helps make that decision? >> if the patient is fully awake and alert, it's -- they can make the decision. >> so that's final decision is left up to the nonmedical personnel? >> it was discussed, and we explained we would be happy to transport him. i'm not exactly sure how the determination was made, but i knew that it was determined that if he was going to receive medical care, the police was going to take him. >> so that sort of became the police responsibility at that point, correct? >> correct. >> had it not been for the police involvement, would you have suggested to the person who
had that injury and the injuries on the back of his head to get some x-rays? >> we would have said the same thing. that we would be happy to transport him, but it would be up to them. >> okay. if i might just have a moment, your honor. >> lisa bloom, let me bring you in. you hear stacey livingston. we've seen these pictures of george zimmerman's injuries before. the attorney, at least defense attorney, pushing her to put it in some kind of context, it seems. >> this is one of the strongest pieces of evidence for the defense. clearly george zimmerman did incur only injuries that night. he incurred an injury on the front of his face and a couple lacerations on the back of his head. the defense is going to take that to say he was clearly beaten, that substantiates his story. he had to shoot to defend his own life. the prosecution says these
injuries aren't near live as serious as the story george zimmerman tells. >> jon, she said the injuries on the back of his head were about an inch long. he was not bleeding at the time. she looked at him for about five minutes and did not take him to the hospital. >> well, i think it's important that there are no contusions. lacerations are pretty ease to come by. a contusion is where you have really been thump, thump, thumped against the sidewalk or something. then you would have a deeper kind of injury, which would obviously be more of a life-threatening and serious injury. you don't have that. you have some bumps and some lacerations. lacerations and bruising comes pretty easily. again, it is good for the defense, whatever it is right now. the question whether the prosecution can then suggest that it wasn't significant enough because you don't see the kind of injuries you would expect if you really received the kind of thumping he claimed he had. >> lisa, we're going to go back quickly, but i want to get your perspective on this. the nose and the severity of the injury, george zimmerman not being transported to the hospital. when you hear the explanation from the witness earlier today
that described this fight like an mma-style fight, if that were the case, two lacerations an inch long and not bleeding when the firefighter arrived and treated george zimmerman, what are we to make of that? >> and add to that excellent analysis that there's no blood on the sidewalk where he says this happened. no blood on trayvon martin's hands, under his fingernails or on his cuffs. >> so there's no dispute there was a fight here. again, this is painting a picture of or a conflicting picture, lisa, over the severity of this fight. >> that's what makes for a trial. >> every fight does not justify the use of deadly force. it really doesn't. you got to have some reason to believe that the force been affected against you is in such a nature you believe your life is in danger. a basic fight does not justify the use of deadly force. >> okay. we're going to take a quick break for a second. we will return to the coverage in that courtroom in sanford,
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we're returning now to sanford, florida. this is officer tim smith. he was the first officer on the scene the night of the shooting. let's listen in. >> how did you get the gate code? >> dispatch. >> all right. >> may i approach the witness? would you dim the lights? >> yes, you may. >> sir, up on the screen is state's exhibit 2. do you recognize that? >> yes, i do. >> is that an aerial photograph that includes the retreat at twin lakes complex? >> yes, it is. >> can you show the members of the jury first where the complex is with the laser pointer, if you would. >> right here. >> okay. and show them your location when you first receive the dispatch. >> right here. >> all right.
and can you show them what route you took to get to the complex? >> sure. i would have gone down rinehart, northbound on rinehart, took oregon, down oregon to the front entrance right here. >> all right. let me ask you to look at state's exhibit 1. did you recognize that to be an aerial photograph of the retreat at twin lakes photograph itself? >> yes, i do. >> can you show the members of the jury where you went first when you entered the complex? >> through the front gates here, down through here. >> all right. >> this is twin trees. >> and i think you said you went first to 1231. was there an update to the location after you got in the complex? >> 1231 was what i was originally given. i arrived there first. >> can you show approximately
where 1231 is? >> right in this area. >> okay. and where did you go? >> from there i was given an update from an address on retreat view advising that the incident was taking place behind that location. >> all right. and do you recall the address on retreat circle that you were given? >> 2821 retreat view. >> all right. where did you go? >> down twin trees to retreat view and the address would have been over in this area. >> all right. as you were en route to the 2821 address, did you stop anywhere and observe things or use your flashlight? >> i did. >> where was that? >> down here in between the sets of town homes. >> okay. what did you do at that
location? >> i used the spotlight on the patrol vehicle to shine it down that walkway. >> did you get out of your car, or were you just sitting in the car and you can maneuver it? >> inside the car. >> what did you see when you shined your spotlight down there? >> towards the end of the walkway, i saw at least one person standing outside. >> could you see anything more than that other than a person standing outside? >> not from where i was, no, sir. >> did you continue around that retreat view circle to the 2821 address? >> yes, sir. >> show the members of the jury again about where you parked and what you do when you got out of your car. >> i parked roughly in this area here. >> where did you go? >> as i exited, i went around to the left to go in between the town homes on the walkway. >> all right. what were the lighting conditions like when you got in between and behind the town homes? >> it was dark. >> did you have a flashlight with you? >> i did. >> all right.
did you use that? >> i did. >> all right. what were the weather conditions like? >> it was raining. >> when you got behind the town homes, did you see anyone? >> i did. >> how many people did you see? >> i saw at least two people standing and then one person on the ground. >> and show the members of the jury approximately where the two people were who were standing up. >> approximately in this area here. >> all right. and the person on the ground, where was that person? >> in the grassy area to the left of the sidewalk. >> okay. can you shine your light in that approximate area? >> sure. roughly in this area. >> very good. and you have indicated to the left of the sidewalk. >> yes. >> all right. did you shine your flashlight on the person who was on the ground? >> i did. >> and how was that person positioned?
>> face down. >> could you see the person's hands? >> no, i could not. >> did you later learn that person's name to be trayvon martin? >> i did. >> did you approach trayvon martin at that time? >> i did not. >> why not? >> because i was in contact with one of the gentlemen on the sidewalk. >> let me show you state's exhibit 5. does that give a general idea of the lighting conditions absent the flash of the light from the camera? >> yes, it does. >> and state's exhibit 77, do you recognize that? >> i do. >> is that an accurate depiction of trayvon martin's body when you shined your flashlight on him? >> yes. >> all right. you said you came into contact with one of the people who was standing up. did you later learn that person's name to be george zimmerman? >> i did. >> and do you see george zimmerman -- your honor, could you turn the lights on? do you see george zimmerman in
court this afternoon? >> i do. >> is he standing to my left? >> yes, he is. >> your honor, i ask the record reflect the witness' identification of the defendant. >> the record will so reflect. >> did the defendant have any trouble to stand when you made contact with him? >> no, he did not. >> did he have trouble balancing? >> no, sir. >> did you say anything to the defendant when you made contact with him? >> i did. >> what was that? >> i asked him if he had seen what happened. >> what did he say? >> that he did. >> did you ask him any further questions? >> i did. >> what was that? >> i asked if the subject on the ground had been shot and if he had seen who shot him. >> how did the defendant respond to that? >> he said he did and he was still armed. >> when the defendant -- when you said -- when you asked him those questions, did he appear to have any trouble understanding what you were asking?
>> no. >> when he responded to your questions, did you have any trouble understanding his responses? >> no, sir. >> when the defendant said that he was still armed, what did you do? >> i unholstered my service weapon at which point he complied with my commands and he was secured in handcuffs. >> did he actually show you in some fashion where his gun was? >> he did. >> did he have his hands in the air when he did that? >> he did. >> where was the defendant's gun? >> on his right hip. >> and did you handcuff the defendant? >> i did. >> do you recall whether or not you handcuffed him in front or in back? >> in back. >> all right. why did you do that? >> policy. >> did you remove the defendant's gun from his person? >> yes, i did. >> was it in a holster? >> yes, it was. >> when you removed the defendant eefs gun, did you take the gun or the gun and the holster? >> the gun and the holster. >> what did you do with the gun and the holster when you removed
it? where did you put it? >> it was currently on me because i was away from my patrol vehicle. >> where did you put it on your person? >> tucked in between my magazine pouch and my vest. >> all right. do you recall whether or not the defendant's holster was inside his pants or on the outside of his pants when he showed it to you? >> i don't. >> all right. could you see the defendant's gun when you approached him? >> no. >> could you see the holster when you approached him? >> no. >> all right. what did you do with the defendant after you placed him in handcuffs? >> is he was seated in the rear of my patrol vehicle. >> when you walked the defendant to your patrol car, did he appear to have any trouble walking? >> no, sir. >> did other sanford police department officers respond to
the scene in short ortder after you? >> yes, sir. >> do you recall who the first officer was who responded after you? >> i believe it was officer ayalla. >> and what did he do when he arrived at the scene? >> he went to attend to mr. martin. >> all right. do you recall any other officers going over to trayvon martin's body at that time? >> yes, sir. >> who was that? >> sergeant raimondo. >> were you wearing gloves when you first made contact with the defendant and removed his holster and firearm from his person? >> i was not. >> and did you handle the firearm in any special way when you removed it? >> no, sir. >> why not? >> why did i not handle it in a certain way? >> yes, sir. >> there was not enough time.
>> and did you secure or make safe the defendant's firearm at some point? >> i did. >> and how did you do that? >> i removed the magazine from the firearm and i locked the slide to the rear. >> all right. when you say you removed the magazine, we're talking about a semiautomatic pistol? >> correct. >> all right. and when you pulled the slide back or locked it into position to the rear, was there a round in the chamber? >> yes, sir. >> what happened to that round when you moved the slide? >> it was ejected. >> all right. did you collect it? >> i did. >> and did you keep that round and all the rounds in the magazine together with the firearm? >> yes. >> and where did you put them? >> they were secured in my patrol vehicle until i could obtain a gun box. >> and what's a gun box? >> that's a cardboard box that we use to secure firearms as evidence. >> pretty much a standard box to secure any handgun? >> correct.
>> all right. and ultimately, what did you do with the ammunition, the magazine, the holster, and the firearm? >> it was all submitted into evidence. >> and did you at some point turn those, that box over to your wife, diana smith? >> that's correct. >> she was also called to this scene? >> correct. >> all right. let me show you state's 154, already in evidence. and ask you to examine that. do you recognize the contents of that exhibit? >> yes, i do. >> what do you recognize that to be? >> that would be the handgun, mag, and holster i removed. >> how do you recognize it to be the same? >> because it's secured in the box with my handwriting on it. >> all right. does it have the case
information, like you said, your handwriting, case number, et cetera? >> yes. >> all right. and just for the jury's sake, will you hold up the -- first of all, the firearm. your honor, it still has a gun lock in it. and the holster. and the magazine and rounds. all right. and that -- all of this you turned over to diana smith? >> correct. >> she was the crime scene technician assigned to the case? >> yes, sir. >> thank you. all right. was fire rescue dispatched to that scene? >> yes, sir. >> did they respond to the
scene? >> yes, sir. >> was fire rescue allowed to examine and treat the defendant? >> yes, sir. >> were you present for that? >> yes, sir. >> what injuries did you observe on the defendant? >> the defendant had a bloody nose. he had some lacerations to his head as well as some contusions. >> and at some point while the defendant was in your patrol car, did another sanford police officer take a picture of the defendant's face? >> yes, sir. >> do you recall who that was? >> officer mike wagner. >> were you aware at any point that a civilian had taken a photograph of the back of the defendant's head? >> not at that time, no. >> is that something that if it happened would have happened before you arrived? >> yes, sir. >> your honor, if i could dim the lights again.
state's exhibit 6, is that another depiction of the lighting at the scene absent the light -- the flash from the camera? >> yes, sir. >> and state's 34, do you recognize that? >> yes, sir. >> is that the approximate area that you parked your patrol car on retreat view circle? >> yes, sir. >> and state's 132, obviously a daylight photograph. is that a photograph of the front entrance of the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes, it is. >> and state's 133. do you recognize that to be a closer shot of the front entrance of the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes. >> and state's 134. is that now a shot going into the complex with the clubhouse in the right of the picture? >> yes. >> state's 135. what is that? >> it's the front of the clubhouse. >> and state's 136.
do you recognize that? >> that would be the mailbox kiosk. >> and state's 137, is that a close up of the mailbox kiosk by the clubhouse? >> yes, sir. >> all right. and state's 138, is that a depiction of the rear gate of the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes, it is. >> all right. let me show you state's 79. do you recognize that? >> yes, sir. >> is that, to your knowledge, the photograph that officer wagner took of the defendant when he was seated in your patrol car? >> yes, it is. >> and state's 76, does that depict the defendant's head or close to it, fair an accurate depiction of when you came into contact with him? >> yes, sir. >> all right. do you recall what the defendant was wearing that evening? >> a red and black jacket and
blue jeans. >> when you first made contact with the defendant out at the scene, was his jacket pushed up in any way? >> i don't believe so. >> did you see any tears in his jacket? >> no, sir. >> what, if anything, did you notice about the condition of his jacket? >> the back of it was wetter than the front of it and it was also covered in grass. >> do you recall the condition of his pants? >> vaguely. >> you said they were blue jeans. >> yes, sir. >> all right. anything else about the condition of his pants? >> again, the back was wetter than the front. >> all right. after rescue had cleaned up the defendant and treated him, what did you do with him? >> i transported him to the
station. >> and what was the purpose of you taking the defendant to the sanford police station? >> to be interviewed by the criminal investigations division. >> and did you take the defendant directly there? >> yes, sir. >> and about how long did that trip take? >> driving time from retreat to the station is roughly 15 minutes. >> all right. while you were making the transport, did the defendant say anything else or anything at all about his injuries? >> he stated that he felt like he was lightheaded. >> and what did you do or say in response to that? >> i afforded him the opportunity to go to the hospital. >> and how did you afford him the opportunity? >> i asked him if that was -- if he wanted to go to it the hospital or wanted to go to the station and be re-evaluated by fd. >> what did the defendant say when you offered him that? >> he wasn't sure what he should do. >> so how was that resolved? >> ultimately he decided that he didn't want to go.
>> didn't want to go where? >> to the hospital. >> all right. so did you take him to the station? >> i did. >> all right. at any time while you were en route with the defendant, did he lose consciousness or faint in any way? >> no, sir. >> at any time after arriving at the station, did the defendant complain of any injuries? >> no, sir. none that was already additionally on there. >> and where are specifically did you park when you and the defendant arrived at the station? >> in the sally port. >> and is that the standard area that you would park when bringing someone to the station like that? >> yes. >> when you removed the defendant from your car, did he appear to have any trouble balancing or walking? >> no, sir. >> all right. and what he still handcuffed? >> yes, sir. >> did the defendant walk with you inside the station? >> yes, sir. >> did he have any trouble walking throughout the station?
>> no, sir. >> are the -- are portions of the interior of the sanford police station surveilled by video cameras? >> yes, sir. >> and have you seen the video surveillance of the defendant arriving at the station and walking through the station that evening? >> yes, sir. >> does that video fairly and accurately depict the defendant's arrival and transport through the police station? >> yes, sir. >> after the defendant got out of your police car, did you see any blood in your patrol car? >> no, sir. >> and where did you take the defendant specifically when you got to the station? >> into an interview room on the second floor. >> all right. your honor, if i could have some assistance playing