tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 28, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
at some point republicans have to demonstrate they're more than the party of repealing obama care and legislating women's reproduction if they want to survive as a national party. that's all for "hardball" this week. chris matthews will return on monday. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes. listen to me. it is a summer friday night, and we have two big pieces of breaking news to tell you about. the first, the u.s. ninth circuit court of appeals has just cleared the way for same-sex marriages to resume in california. chris perry and sandy styer, the plaintiffs in the california prop 8 case, just got married in san francisco city hall with a bunch of on lookers and we are hoping we have one or both of them shortly. of course, this decision originally the prop 8 being passed in california had meant that a whole class of people
were in legal limbo and it stopped any future marriages for me gay couples in the state. chris perry is the named plaintiff in perry v. hollingsworth which is the case, the lawsuit that worked its way up to the supreme court and was decided on a 5-4 decision on wednesday. a decision that was somewhat strange legally insofar as it kicked the decision back to the ninth circuit court of appeals and in kicking it back to the ninth circuit court of appeals allowed the judgment of that appellate court to stand. that appellate court earlier ruled that proposition 8 which bans same-sex marriages in the state of california was unconstitutional o that ruling by the california, by the ninth circuit court of appeals that covers of the state of california, that ruling stood in place, but it was not until a few moments ago, it was not until a few moments ago that we found out that that ban was lifted. we are hoping to speak to chris perry and sandy styer just a little later in the program. now, another big piece of breaking news tonight.
a federal judge in alabama has blocked a key provision of a new law that likely would have shut down three of the state's five abortion clinics. it's the so-called trap law. signed by the state's republican governor earlier this year. targeted regulations aimed only at aborgs providers and designed to shut them down. mayon thompson barring the state from enforcing the new law while a lawsuit against it moves forward. writing his opinion that the abortion provider suing the state showed, "concrete serious harms from the legislation." the alabama law uses the same mechanism lawmakers used in mississippi to try to shut down the only remaining clinic in that state last year. and it is the same mechanism being employed by lawmakers in texas in their now-famous attempt to shut down most of the abortion clinics in that state. the texas proposal is famous now to the extent that antiabortion legislation can be famous, thanks of course to state senator wendy davis and her
dramatic 11-hour filibuster of the bill earlier this week and the genuine political uprising it brought about. >> and if you -- >> if we can have order in the chamber so that the members can properly cast their vote. >> the sudden political star tom of wendy davis brought to national attention in dramatic fashion a powerful, high-stakes battle over women's health rights that is not by any means exculusive to the state of texa. raging on all over the country in little noticed state capitals every single day. here, for example, is what's happening in north carolina just this week. >> abortion is on the verge of being added to curriculum at your child's middle school. >> it didn't go before the education committee. there was no public comment open on this bill. and starting as soon as this fall, kids as young as 11 and 12 could be taught the dangers of abortion in the classroom. >> not just the dangers of abortion, mind you, the fake
made up dangers of abortion. that's right. both the house and senate in the state of north carolina have passed legislation to force teachers to tell middle schoolers that having an abortion puts them at risk of preterm birth later on. now, that is an assertion that is not supported by the world's health organization, the cdc, the american college of obstetrics and gynecologist or any other major mainstream health organization. and while conservatives in north carolina are trying to work antiabortion propaganda into public school curriculum, conservatives in ohio have just sneaked a series of radical antiabortion measures into the state's budget. watch what happened yesterday when republicans passed their budget loaded full of creative new antiabortion rules. >> with 21 ayes and 11 nays, the report of the committee of conference is agreed to. those for third consideration? >> shame on you! >> that is actually what happened. now, look, what happens, fade to
black, and bring on the nothing to see here music and shot of the state capitol. yes, yes, nothing going on inside that building at all untoward, just the shouting of "shame on you, shame on you" which, of course, is not being recorded. we're told that what happened after that skillfully handed disruption is that some of the troublemakers in gallery were asked to leave. though protesters also gathered -- >> line item veto! >> -- to protest the abortion rights being waged in this year's budget documents. those antiabortion goodies loaded into the budget include a scheme to defund planned parenthood, a new funding stream for antiabortion crisis pregnancy centers, new rules for what doctors have to tell women before they're allowed access to abortion, and one measure that is truly jaw dropping in its creative cruelty. ohio's newly passed budget would ban abortion clinics from entering into transfer agreements with public hospitals. just think about what that means for a moment. abortion is a very safe
procedure and complications are very, very rare. if something does go wrong, the message ohio republicans would like to send to women is that if you are suffering a medical emergency as a result of an abortion, they would like to ban you from getting treatment at a public hospital. ohio's antiabortion republican governor john kasich said can use a line-item veto to strike the antiabortion measures in the budget but that's seen as a very unlikely outcome. he has to sign the budget one way or another by this sunday night. the angle, of course, is the same in ohio as it was in alabama and mississippi before their trap laws were blocked by the courts, and the same as it is in texas to shut town abortion clinics. the lesson is unmistakable. this assault on women's reproductive rights unceasing, but it is also devilishly generative. there's no end in the creative ways in which conservatives can and will and are engineering workarounds to deny women rights guaranteed by the supreme court in roe v. wade 40 years ago.
joining me, ohio state senator nina turner, a democrat who represents district 25 which includes cleveland. senator, my first question for you is how did these provisions end up in a budget? >> chris, only god knows. they put the provisions in like thieves in the night, like cowards that they are. they didn't even have the decency to have their anti-woman legislation stand alone so we could debate it. they thought no one was watching but surprise, surprise, surprise. some of the footage you showed, hundreds of people showed up at the statehouse on thursday, alone, with doctors. we delivered naral and also planned parenthood delivered 17,000 letters to the governor pleading with him to line item veto these measures. chris, we have children to need to be educated. we have infrastructure that needs to be repaired. we have people who need to be uplifted. instead of doing this, the gop is still deadly preoccupied with a woman's womb and it doesn't make any kind of sense. this is a constitutionally
guaranteed procedure whether you support it or not, and the fact that they are trying to regulate access to abortion out of the universe makes no sense. >> the governor has to sign this document by sunday. he does have the possibility, in your state there is a provision, there is a line-item veto, he can line-item veto it. what is your sense of what he's going to do, and what political pressures are being brought to bear on either direction of the governor right now if. >> besides those letters that were delivered, chris, women and men who support women and their access to medical care, high quality head camedical care hav calling the governor's office and sending e-mails. the power is in his hands. although he did not put those measures in the budget, he has the opportunity to stand up for women in the state of ohio and line-item veto this ideological foolishness out of the budget. women deserve, chris, could you ever think of a time in this country where men would be
regulated in such a way that anybody would stand between a man and his doctor? it wouldn't happen. and so we cannot tolerate as ohioans and as citizens of this country folks using their ideology to stand in the way between women and their doctors. you know, susan b. anthony once said that men and their rights no more, and women and their rights, nothing less. that is what we have to stand up for. we are pleading with the governor to line item veto every single one of those anti-women provisions in that budget. >> we've seen republican overreach in your state before when it had to do with public sector unions passing a bill that went hard after public sector unions and a massive rebuke, motivation, mobilization and overturning that. is the populist of ohio aware of this battle happening right now? enough that there will be recriminations if this will bill is signed into law? >> more and more they are, chris. there's going to be a day of reckoning in 2014. game on in 2014. elections have consequences, and we have got to stand up in the
state of ohio and say this is not how we want our government run. again, there's real work to do, but yet they sit up here and use their political might and power to oppress women. makes no sense, chris. we are making very hard in the state of ohio to make sure people do not forget what has happened to women this year. what has been happening to voters last year. and what happened to workers in 2012 all at the hands of the gop. >> ohio state senator nina turner. thank you so much. >> thank you. joining me now is terry o'neal, president of the national organization for women. terry, there was a huge uptick after the kind of tea party electorate showed up in 2010, and it elected these very, very right wing state houses in 2011. there was a huge uptick in antiabortion measures, abortion restrictions. you can see it right there. are we seeing something in 2013 similar at the state level? >> you know, it may not be quite as high as it was in 2011, but it is absolutely moving forward. to me, there's a very
interesting split in the republican party. on the one hand, you have people like governor bobby jindal of louisiana saying, well, we have to moderate our message, our rhetoric, although he certainly doesn't seem to want to moderate the harsh anti-woman agenda that the republican party is pursuing. but there is this call to moderate the rhetoric. the problem is that women are not fooled, and men voters are not fooled either. so some republicans want to stop sort of pushing forward with these very divisive social issues like stopping women from having ordinary health care, but other republicans are moving forward very, very aggressively. there are a number of states that have passed these clearly unconstitutional criminalizations of abortion at 20 weeks. in arkansas it was 12 weeks. in north dakota it was six weeks. and for the sole purpose of challenging roe v. wade before
the supreme court. that, frankly, is not always terrible policy, as senator turner was just saying. it's stupid politics. the reality is, and i think that the uprising, and i do call it an uprising in texas, has shown, and the outpouring in ohio on virtually no notice, you had hundreds of people showing up at the state house to protest these draconian anti-woman laws. that is going to influence 2014 for sure. >> terry, you just mentioned the 20-week ban. we've seen 20-week bans being pushed in a lot of places. a 20-week ban is part of the law in texas that was filibustered, though a big part of that bill basically targeted the actual abortion clinics. would have shut down the majority of them. the 20-week ban seems like a new strategic turn for the antiabortion movement. partly because at the face level, if you poll people on this, it's relatively popular and it seems like this is the
new marker they're laying down and it's not necessarily a strategically foolish one. >> not in the short term if their goal is to stop women -- if their goal is to make a huge dent in roe v. wade or even to overturn roe v. wade. look, i think in the women's movement, and in the reproductive rights movement, we really do know what we're up against. we have hostile supreme court justices. certainly four of them that, in my view, are eager to overturn roe v. wade. we have a supreme court hat has just eviscerated the voting rights act which is going to then allow the kind of gerrymandering that actually would have kicked wendy davis out of her seat. but for the section 5 of the voting rights act, supreme court has eviscerated that. that's gone. so in the short term, there's no doubt in my mind that the men, and they're almost all men, and frankly they're almost all white, will be able to grab power, abuse their power, and move forward with some very
anti-woman legislation. but as nina turner says, there's a day of reckoning coming. this is still a democracy in this country, and the people are completely at odds with this draconian agenda. you know, 77% of voters leaving the polls in 2012 said that they wanted roe v. wade to remain the law of the land. that included 35% of voters who identify as pro-choice -- pro-life. pro-life voters who don't want roe v. wade to be overturned. these men are swimming up against the desires of the people of this country and u think there will be repercussions. >> the politics on this issue are economcomplicated and in a equilibri equilibrium. people want the status quo. terry o'neill from the national organization for women. thank you so much. >> thank you. now that comprehensive bipartisan immigration reform has been passed in the senate, it's up to john boehner to get his party to pass it in the house. and it's up to us to make sure
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john boehner needs to have a talk -- 2012 john boehner needs to have a talk with 2013 john boehner to remind him about what he said about finding common ground to take care of immigration reform once and for all. i'll explain, ahead. [ male announcer ] zzzquil. it's not for colds, it's not for pain, it's just for sleep.
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68-32. and now it's on to the house of representatives whose speaker, john boehner, was quick to issue this edict. >> apparently some haven't gotten the message. the house is not going to take up and vote on whatever the senate passes. we're going to do our own bill through regular order and there will be legislation that reflects the will of our majority and the will of the american people. >> that attitude, fan the flames of the naysayers, savvy and otherwise, who rushed to say this bill is more or less dead in the house. >> john boehner, the speaker, even said today it's got to look very different, very, very different for them to take up this issue if at all. >> that's right. they might not even vote on it. >> between the lines there, what boehner is saying is a majority of house republicans have to support it and that means that the senate democrats who passed this thing today won't be happy as they try to work out a compromise. >> john boehner keeps saying he's not going it let it come up on the floor unless he knows for
sure a majority of the republican members of the house will support it. >> now, i don't actually believe that. when people say it, or when they go further and say immigration reform in general is dead in the house, they play into john boehner's hands. because john boehner is trying to convince everyone that the immigration bill he has just been passed is doomed to fail wrur. boehner is staking out a negotiating position in which there is no wiggle room. he wants you to believe there is nothing he can do, his caucus won't support it. so leadership can't get behind it. but the republican caucus, and it's hard to keep this in mind sometimes because of the way they act, the republican caucus is not simply a feature of the political landscape or some force of nature. it is a bunch of human beings subject to conscience, pressure and practical considerations about their political future. and believe me, the broad coalition of institutions, organizations, donors, and grassroots movements are going to bring that pressure. i honestly think john boehner has no idea what he's in store for. if steve king thought that he
was made uncomfortable when, as he tweeted, "20 brazen self-professed illegal aliens have just invaded my d.c. office" he should ready himself for a long, hot summer. if at the end of it king and boehner and the rest of the house republicans want to burn to the ground the aspirations of 11 million people and tens of millions of voters, then that's on them. but those who have already on colluded that that's where this ends up are both underestimating the power of the movement for reform and supplying an excuse for the republican caucus for doing something which is inexcusable. which is killing this bill. joining me, luis gutierrez. congressman, you and i think have similar perspectives on this. i'd like to think it's not wishful thinking but i was in arguments with frechbiends of m yesterday who cover the hill, who know it well, say, why on earth is boehner doubling down on this thing that's he's not going to bring this up, not
going to violate the hastert rule. why is he painting himself into this corner unless he really means it? >> i have come to the conclusion that the republican majority in the house of representatives has no understanding, just does not comprehend the depth, the width, the broadness of the american people's support for comprehensive immigration reform, and, unfortunately, our movement for immigration reform spent all of its energy, fortunately surk sccessfully in getting the bill through the senate. all of those forces, let me just say the array of forces, the spectrum, the ideological spectrum, political ideological, religious, economical, i mean, you look at it from every sector of our society. you're going to have "the new york times" and the "wall street journal." we're going to be together on this, but so are some pundits on some other tv stations that aren't quite with the issue in the past.
look, you cannot stop this. and when it is felt, i really believe that you're going to get a vote of the majority. having said that, look, we're also going to be smart and practical and flexible. we need to give a safe place for republicans, and there are dozens of them. like paul ryan and like rubio in the senate and others that put that bill together and paul ryan who i know is going to help us put it together in the house of representatives. we need to give them a bipartisan space. so here's what the speaker says. he says we're not going to accept the senate version. we don't have to accept the senate version. we can come with a version from the house of representatives and we can go to conference and we can come out with a bill that the president can probably sign. >> that's my question. let's say, let's say this. john boehner won't break the hastert rule. he's not going to bring a bill up that doesn't have the majority support of his caucus. let's say a bill passes a house that is an immigration bill. i believe one has to because
they're not idiots. they understand it's just their murder is too obvious if they just plunge the dagger in in front of everybody by just, like, not letting the bill come up at all, right? let's say they pass an immigration bill but it looks nothing like the senate bill. you go to conference, it's like trying to mate a wildabeast and a caterpillar. what ungodly creature comes out of the conference committee that gets you where you want to go? >> you know, i get your point. but let me tell you something. i don't think it will be so dissimilar in terms of fundamental issues. like the right of 11 million people -- >> path to citizenship. >> to live with justice, have a path to citizenship. to have their families protected. look, come on, chris, before the republicans kind of had an argument. well, when the democrats were in charge and obama was elected president, they didn't bring about comprehensive. they had their chance and they blew it. and they're really not that serious about it. but after the vote yesterday, when 54 democrats -- i've never
seen -- that's the kind of base you start with. 54 out of 54 senators voted for comprehensive immigration reform. let me just say, in rejecting steve king's trying to defund the dream act and the president's executive order, stopping the deportation, 198 out of 201 democrats voted against that. >> partisan lines here are clear. they understand what the stakes are. the question is whether they get the message in time. congressman luis gutierrez. thank you so much. have a great weekend. >> thank you. after totally freaking america out about something they probably never heard of before, director josh fox is back with another look at hydraulic fracturing. fracking. a special preview of "gas land part 2" when we come back. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day.
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it's all settled out. >> right. >> but that's what our water looked like. >> that came out of just out of the tap? >> out of the tap. >> right. >> so at three weeks they contacted mike by phone and said we've tested your water, there's nothing wrong with your water. >> with this? >> with this. there's nothing wrong with the water that can be affected by the oil and gas production in your area. >> whoa. jesus christ. >> when i first watched that iconic shot from documentary "gas land" i like most americans i'm guessing knew absolutely nothing, zero, about the gas extraction process called
hydraulic fractures, commonly known as fracking. but in the three short years since "gas land" came out, americans have watched sometimes in horror as the united states has undergone nothing short of a fracking revolution, one that has touched hundreds of communities across the country from central pennsylvania to new mexico, to upstate new york. and it's only just the beginning. the explosion of natural gas production in the united states has completely and totally revolutionized the entire american economy and energy industry. it has also made fracking one of the most controversial and intense battles being waged in communities and on a larger scale in washington, where the white house and congress are very friendly to natural gas. over the past five years, fracking has truly changed everything and now josh fox is back. the man who made the world pay attention to the fracking revolution happening in backyards across the country and in the process became enemy number one of the u.s. energy industry. "gas land part 2" is his new documentary about the front line
of the fracking revolution. >> one night i went out with him. at this time we didn't need the flare camera. >> just don't breathe. >> huh? >> just don't breathe. the wind is coming from this side. >> whoa, that one -- see that one just went out, shooting methane up in the air. >> oh, dude, it's right behind somebody's house. >> you can smell something. >> this is what bob was talking about. methane venting straight up into the atmosphere. there had to be a better way. >> joining me now is josh fox, director of "gas land part 2" a follow-up to the 2010 academy award documentary "gas land" which we directed. it premieres on hbo monday july 8th at 8:00 p.m.
>> it's great to be here. >> explain what we just saw there. >> that's a great way to start. what you saw there are flare stacks. when you talk about natural gas development, we talk about gas development all over the place, rural areas, suburban areas, national parks, state parks. you have gas that's being developed, fracked and drilled all over america. the target zone for this industry, they have leased more land than the whole landmass of california and florida combined. so if you picture lease property/nonlease property. lease property it affects a landmass twice as many as that. what you saw there were flare stacks after drilling operations and see one of the stacks go out. something that's very common and it's shooting method thain straig methane straight up into the atmosphere. methane is natural gas. what people don't understand is how much of this methane is leaking. >> let's talk about the methane issue. the defenders of natural gas and people who doubt the fracking revolution, there are even some
environment lists who do, say, look, we have carbon emissions at an all-time low -- not an all-time low, obviously, not an all-time low, but at a low recently. we've seen carbon really fall off the cliff and it's because of natural gas. what role does methane play in how we understand whether this is good for the climate? >> that's a great question. methane is the second most greenhouse gas. it also warms the planet much faster, it dissipates much quicker. methane in the 20-year timeframe, the next two decades, it warms the atmosphere 80 to 105 times more than carbon dioxide does. you need 80 to 105 pounds of carbon dioxide to equal one pound of methane. >> to get the same greenhouse gas effect. >> right. which means you need something like any more than 1% leakage of methane in the total production of natural gas means that you're worse than coal which is our worse fossil fuel. i'm not advocating for coal. as we saw a few days ago, the president comes out and talks about climate.
i mean, look, it's amazing to see a president talk about climate. >> we, agreed. >> i've always been an obama supporter and it's an incredibly welcome thing to say this is the number one cry sisz we're facing. i couldn't be happier about that. i couldn't be more unhappy that the plan increases natural gas production, exports natural gas production and encourages natural gas production in other countries. >> okay. so here's my, if i'm incredibly cynical, this is my feeling about this. there is a ton of money in this. it's cheap and only getting cheaper. the policy apparatus of this country is behind it. what is going to stop the freight train that is the fracking revolution? >> we've more seen this. i mean, look, i made this film as a youtube -- to start off as a youtube video for my community. the fact we have one of the fastest growing and one of the most successful environment -- i mean, the fracktevists -- >> they're in my inbox. >> you know, look, four years
ago in new york state, we heard you're never going to stop that. the citizens of new york state stopped the fracking industry in new york state. we stopped it in the upper delaware basin. we have bans in pittsburgh, bans all over towns in pennsylvania and in new york and in new mexico. we saw californians against fracking get launched a few weeks ago. they have 100 organizations signed on in the first six months. what this is is this is really a test of our democracy. we know we have the poll numbers in new york. people understand this. in pennsylvania, i just, the latest poll, 2/3 of pennsylvanians are in support of a moratorium on fracking. >> wow. >> what we don't have, and this is what this film examines right now is democracy. >> we don't have a political system equipped to transfer that opinion into policy because of the amount of money on the table in terms of fossil fuel. josh fox, director of "gas lamp part 2." it premieres on hbo monday july 8th at 8:00 p.m.
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despite what some right wingers are still trying to tell you, the president of the united states was not born in africa, but he is there at this moment. it's a continent with a fascinating story that is going to play a huge role in america's future. that's next. but first i want to bring you the three awesomest things on the internet today. the first, the first is beginning with a story brought to you by the letter "g." any. the "new yorker" released the cover of next week's issue, a clever nod to doma featuring a cuddling burt and ernie watching the nine justices on tv. a version of the illustration was submitted to a tumblr over a year ago. some are calling it amazing, parodies are popping up and the backlash has begun. "slate's" june thomas says it's a terrible way to commemorate a civil rights victory. tyler coates called it infant lizing and offensivoffensive. this isn't the first time burt
and ernie's sexuality has come into question. consider the wise words from ceo of sesame workshop a few years back. they are not gay, they are not straight, they are puppets, they do not exist below the waist. touche. one of the five people responsible for the doma decision gets her moment in the sun. ruth bader ginsburg has been delivering her brand of progressive justice to the nation's highest court since 1993. this why an nyu law student launched a tumblr to pay tribute to ruth bader ginsburg complete with gifts, graphics, your favorite quotes and court opinions. there's an rgb fashion and nod to her workout routine. her trainer says she can -- proving the point that chuck norris may walk on water, but ruth bader ginsburg can swim through land. the third awesomest thing, iowa's senior senator, charles
grassley. grassley enjoys communicating with constituents vie wra the twitter. for example, earlier today came this tweet. history on the history channel, yes, history, attila the hun rite now. dude, the rest of us are at work. what are you doing? as if he read my mind, an hour later came this tweet, surprise, still more history on history channel. cleopatra. this is classic grassley. reading the man's twitter feed is like watching an artist of many genres at work. abstract, eating at noodle zoo, i just ate there. chuck grassley, the mainimalist. includes #, and if. last but not least, the hemingway tribute artist. fred and i hit a deer on highway 136 south of dyersville. after i pulled fender rubbing on tire we continued to farm.
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quote, clinically unwell condition. president obama is in johannesburg this evening. all the talk is about whether he'll get a chance to make a bedside pilgrimage to visit the great man before he passes away. >> i don't need a photo po, and the last thing i want to do is be in any way obtrusive when the family is concerned about nelson mandela's condition. >> he is not in south africa because nelson mandela may be in the final moments of his life. he's visiting a major trade partner for america. he's in senegal wednesday, and heading to tanzania on monday for similar reason. these three countries appear to give the president the best shot of taking advantage of economic opportunities in america, something america arguably hasn't done a good job of at late.
china's was $200 billion last year. compare that to the u.s. if the united states is not leading in africa, we're going to fall behind in a very important region in the world. over the last decade, an incredible story unfolded in b sub-saharan africa, where six of the ten fastest growing economies are located. over the next decade, africa's gdp is expected to raise by an average of 6% a year. africa matters, not for a site of aid or development or pity. the president is there to try to stake a claim in this emerging market. also africa matters to the president in a personal way. for a black man, the country's first black president, standing in the door of no return. the entrance to the slaveships heading to the americas obviously holds the kind of symbolism absent from george w. bush's bill clinton's visit to africa. this is barack hussein obama, son of barack hussein obama sr., born and raised in kenya. in fact, nelson mandela right
now in johannesburg are the two most famous men in the world through which african blood runs. joining me, she has lived in ghana, reported from south africa. john nichols at "the nation." john traveled with nelson mandela in south africa. and a nigerian american journalist and night media scholar at yale law school. great to have you all here. you've been spending a lot of time reporting, you've been living in africa writing about sub-saharan africa specifically. there is a pretty amazing story of what's happened there since the great recession and even longer. what is the story, if you had to say, in broad strokes that americans don't know? >> sure. you know, it's hard to imagine that it's been 20 years since nelson mandela, you know, became the first president of, the black president of south africa, and even in the last ten years you've seen this incredible story of democratic governance taking root. just last year there were 3 elections across the continent. beyond the rule of law
narrative, there have been all sorts of interesting innovations and activity happening outside of the public sector you could call it. that means off-grid energy, that means incredible amounts of investment. that means innovations for education. and this huge connectivity boom. i think that's been one of the more transformative aspects of african development the last five years is the emergence of connectivity for a vast population. >> i'm fascinated by this china/sub-saharan africa access that's emerged and a real, real intense thing. listen to this thing. "former chinese president hu jintao visited 17 african nations in a single ten-month stretch between july 2006 and february 2007. chi china's current president xi jinping already visited three since taking office on march 14th, 2013." countries across the content, you are seeing in very tangible terms the products of chinese
investle. >> you absolutely are. remember when former secretary of state hillary clinton talked about china being the new colonial power for africa and if america doesn't get its act together, china is going to take over in a way that arguably america should be. so the evidence of china's presence and the willingness to invest in both the public and the private sector, it is an explosion. >> is it greeted as colonialism, or is it -- how is it greeted? >> so this is the thing. what china has done is to make this argument that it offers an understanding of africa's cultural capital. and so while it's making economic investments, it's not doing so absent the understanding of what this country is, which is different in the colonial years not thinking of who the people were. now, in practical terms, it is not that. it's a great strategy. >> so john, what i feel like is america has a very simplistic notion of africa.
africa is just this thing. one word. it's a country. and there's been a lot of critique of the president for not doing a better job in terms of -- like, how do you make this relationship matter to americans? >> well, you got to go there, physically go there. unfortunately, you drag the press corps along. even if they ask you about edward snowden every stop -- >> which they did. >> -- you still go there. it matters. there's something else the president is doing which has been dramatically undercovered. before he went he appointed russ feingold to the special envoy, in africa is known as the great lakes region, a central african region which has immense innovation going on. great things. they also have really tough countries. putting feingold in there was a very big deal. he was on the africa subcommittee for 18 years. he's known in africa. it was a clear signal that this administration wants to engage at a higher level and wants actually to be prodded a little bit. >> so i want to ask you about his reception there and his reception in south africa. i'm thinking of the president.
there are some criticisms he has been checked out of this relationship. i want to talk about nelson mandela and south africa and the kind of amazing poetic resonance between two men's trajectories right after we take this break. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us. make a wish! i wish we could lie here forever. i wish this test drive was over, so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta.
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make a profound difference in the lives of farmers. what we're seeing here today are businesspeople, farmers, academics, researchers, scientists, all combining some of the best practices that have been developed. >> that's the president in senegal yesterday talking about new drought fighting technologies. we're talking about president obama's trip to africa and the timing that puts him there during days that may be the final ones for former south african president nelson mandela. we're joined by john nichols of
"the nation." there's a resonance between the trajectories of nelson mandela and president obama. they're historic figures if each of their countries and also this sense in which they are symbolic and historical figures but leaders who had to deal with the world as it is. this transcendent, beautiful sublime moment that justifies struggle for decades. then there's the fact that there is the mundane business of government and all the institutional constraints that means on the day and the day after that and there's a senate filibuster and a central bank in south africa that doesn't want to be loose with money and wants unemployment high. that, to me, is the story, the poetic resonance of these two men's lives is precisely that particularly as you consider the anc 20 years after mandela first took over. >> right, i agree. i think the thing that really joins the two men is their able to role model. i think you're always going to run into the friction of politics, but i think both have been able to sort of step
forward and enact a vision of leadership that actually has resonance. and particularly seeing obama in africa, i mean, i think the countries he's going to, it's hard to argue he shouldn't go and see nelson mandela and south africa and tanzania and senegal have a history of democratic governance. it's important to reward that. i think obama's role modeling could really be in other environments in the more risky places in the continent that are arguably more important in terms of economics and in terms of, you know, the trajectory of future growth. >> you think that? >> the other thing that i would pick up on is there are very specific connections between three men actually when it comes to, when we think about south africa and the united states. and that is nelson mandela, president obama, and martin luther king. specifically insofar as you talk about rights, race, and the power to vote to create this idea that people who have been disenfranchised and inhumanity and inferiority has been legislated against. the vote is much more than a moment in the ballot box, so it
roots those connections squarely in the wake of the supreme court ruling that decimates the voting rights act. >> he had to give a comment about it on his first stop on this trip. >> exactly. so you're talking about this moment where for nelson mandela and president obama, these are two black men who are more than leaders in their nations. they're global icons who have particular attachments to the people and not just the privileged. out of that space when you think about the supreme court ruling, it's the idea that the vote signified that people who had been disenfranchised in a way they were suddenly belonged to the nation. >> of course, barack obama has met with protests in south africa. >> absolutely. >> it has a strong left. the train unionists are mad about u.s. foreign policy. i saw this today. the cia, did you know this, central intelligence agency played an important role in the arrest in 1962 of nelson mandela.
unidentified retired official said there was a senior cia officer told him shortly after mandela's arrest, we turned mandela over to the south african security branch. we told them every detail what he'd been wearing, the time of day, just where he would be. barack obama comes as a grandson of africa but also the head of the american government. >> there are south after ririca sophisticated politically and can work with that. protests have been sophisticated protests. specific issues in the u.s. and internationally. i do think the one thing to understand about nelson mandela is he really gets all this. and it is very, very striking that barack obama will be meeting with -- i shouldn't say -- he might. we don't know that. he might. with a guy who dick cheney voted to keep in jail. >> right. that is the trajectory. >> and that wasn't that long ago because when dick cheney was nominated for vice president, he still talked about well, we did that because he was a -- >> he sat there at the table.
john edwards looked him in the eye and said, i'm talking to a guy who wanted to keep mandela in jail. thank you so much. that is "all in" for this evening on this friday. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. happy friday. >> happy friday. exciting stuff in california. >> yeah, we've got a bunch of it live. >> i'm glad you have some of it live. >> we might be having a live wedding on the show in five minutes. >> i'm going to go watch it right now. >> thank you very much. thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. i'm not kidding. we have some expected breaking news to report at this hour. same-sex marriage is breaking out all over the state of california. as we speak. 23 days early. just a short time ago, unexpectedly, a federal appeals court in california issued a one-sentence order unexpectedly clearing way for same-sex marriages to resume in that state immediately. and it caught everybody off guard. you'll remember it was wednesday morning that the united states supreme court in that 5-4 decision ruled tha