tv Lockup MSNBC June 28, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
they are not waging will take place in texas, texas will try again to pass that anti-abortion bill that will reduce the number in the states from 42 to five. this is the same bill that texas democratic senator wendy davis filibustered it, whether the texas republicans wanted it or not. that all starts on monday, the pro choice rally in texas on monday starts at noon, texas governor rick perry's special session is starts at 2:00, this battle is raging right now, raging in the states. and it does not take weekends off. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again monday night, the msnbc special on the trial of george zimmerman starts right now. have a great night. i'm lisa bloom, week one of testimony in the trial of george
zimmerman. >> yes, but there are key things you need to remember from this week as the trial goes forward. >> so you learn what they are and what the jury doesn't know and may never know. >> day one of testimony, opening statements started like this. >> these [ bleep ], they always get away. those were the words in that grown man's mouth. >> knock, knock, who is there? george zimmerman. >> the prosecution begins to make its case. >> listen carefully when the scrutiny stops. >> the defense will poke holes in the case. >> so the question is, well, who was screaming for help? >> the prosecution calls many witnesses to describe what they saw. >> they had already gotten the person, i thought. >> you can't say one way or the other? >> i can't 100% say. >> how would you describe mr. zimmerman's demeanor, sir?
>> coherent, come compliant. >> is that a fair and accurate position as the way trayvon martin's body was positioned. >> as it exits the muzzle of the gun, it burns whatever it hits. >> week one of testimony in the second degree murder trial of george zimmerman. >> state versus george zimmerma zimmerman. >> so this week, the state of florida started its case against george zimmerman for the second degree murder of 17-year-old trayvon martin. zimmerman has pled not guilty, claiming self defense. the prosecution called on one of its key witnesses, 19-year-old
rachel jeantel, the last person to talk to trayvon, she says she was on the phone with trayvon, as martin walked to the store from his girlfriend's house. jeantel said martin told her a man was following him. >> i asked him where is he at? he told me he at the back of his fiancee's house, like in the area of where his fiancee's house -- like you going to keep running. he said no, he lost them. >> a second later -- >> a couple of seconds later -- trayvon said oh [ bleep ]. >> let me interrupt you a second, when you say the words, oh [ bleep ], pardon my language, who said it? >> trayvon. >> he said it to you? >> yes. >> okay, and after he said that,
what happened then? >> and then he said -- >> he used the "n" word again, and said he is behind me? >> yes. >> and did you say anything to him at that time. >> i told him he better run, he said he is almost by his fiancee's house. and then i said trayvon, and he said why are you following me for? and i heard him saying what you doing around here, and i heard trayv trayvon, what is going on, and there was a bonk with the head set. >> you heard a bump? >> yeah. >> and what did you assume it was? >> the head set. >> what happened then? >> i started hearing wet grass sounds. >> what do you mean you heard grass sounds? >> like grass, wet grass. >> okay.
then what happened? >> and then, i called trayvon, trayvon, and in a little bit i started hearing trayvon say get off, get off. >> okay, you heard a grass sound, you said something, what did you say? >> i said trayvon, what is going on? >> and what did you hear? >> i kind of heard trayvon saying get off, get off. >> then what did you hear? >> then suddenly, the phone shut off. >> for more than five and a half hours over the next two days, george zimmerman's defense attorney don west cross examined jeantel, grilling her on the discrepancies of what she testified in court and what she said in past depositions. a key piece of evidence for both the defense and the prosecution is who was screaming for help on the 911 tape. jeantel told the prosecution in court it was certainly martin. but west read jeantel a transcript of what she had told
him at an earlier deposition. >> so the question is, well, who was screaming for help. it is not trayvon is it, and your answer, it could be trayis von. and the question, you know his voice so well, was that trayvon screaming for help or wasn't it? your answer, it could be. like i said, i don't know. but it could be. the dude sound kind of like trayvon, trayvon do got that soft voice and that baby voice sometimes. so it could be, i don't know. you know it is not. and that is the end of the quote. do you acknowledge that you made those statements, those answers to those questions under oath in depositions? >> yes. >> the defense also attacked a key part of jeantel's testimony that she heard trayvon martin say get off, get off. before the phone disconnected.
in her first interview with trayvon martin's family attorney benjamin crump, jeantel said he never said, get off, get off. >> so you made the decision not to tell mr. crump because you didn't actually hear trayvon martin say, get off, get off. >> i will allow it. you may answer. >> yes, sir, because -- >> so you weren't worried about telling him, first of all, the truth -- >> first of all, crump is not an officer, i knew that he was not an officer. so like i told the mother from the beginning, if the officer wanted to talk to me, know the exact story, everything about what happened that night they would reach me at my number.
you got it. >> joining me now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa bloom, a former new york city prosecutor who does criminal and civil litigation, alan jackson, a former los angeles county prosecutor, good to have all three of you here on a friday night. let's start with jeantel because that was the testimony that captured this country. she was trending on twitter a lot, even today, as well. first of all in broad terms what did the state hope to accomplish by putting her on the stand? and did they accomplish that? >> well, that is a hard question, i think at core her story is that trayvon martin was being followed. that is what he told her a couple of times. and she never wavered from that. but she wavered from a couple of different parts of the story, she lied about why she didn't go
to trayvon martin's funeral. but probably more importantly, she lied about essential elements in the case, get off, get off. and the problem i have, let me address this to you, alan jackson, as her story evolved and changed, as far as i can tell, every time it changed it changed in favor of of the prosecution, how do you handle it if you're prosecuting this case? >> well, i think the biggest problem how they're handling the case, how deep into the weeds they're getting with it. big picture, big picture, big picture, it doesn't matter who she can identify on some scratchy recording sometime years later. as trayvon martin or as george zimmerman or -- anybody else -- yeah, it doesn't matter who she -- whether she said there was wet grass on his back or she heard wet grass. i don't even know what that means. none of those details matter. what really matters is the big picture story. the reason that she is important to this case is not the detail.
it is the larger picture that this is a young teenage boy walking home. eating candy. with -- on the phone with his friend and he is being stalked and -- hunted, almost. by someone with an agenda. that is why she is important. the more they get into the detail, the more they get into the weeds the more that plays into the hands of the defense. you don't want to try your case in the four corners of a courtroom. >> did the jury get that? is that something that the jury got from rachel jeantel. >> i think the progresses, this was supposed to be -- prosecution, this was supposed to be their star witness, he made a very good point, details are messing up the prosecution case. but details are where you find out if people lie or are telling the truth. the details are important, the jurors are looking to find out if the story is consistent, is
she just telling the truth or making it up, or embellishing -- she lost a friend. >> i was fascinated by the response on social media, how many people said that this defense attorney is being so hard on her, he is being so mean to her. he doesn't understand her cultural background, or he doesn't understand she is a 19-year-old who doesn't want to be there. how dare he? if you're cross examining, and you have to get out the inconsistencies, how do you handle her? >> i think west is doing a very good job. >> you think donald west is doing a good job in general, or doing a good job with rachel jeantel? >> he did a good job, no doubt about it. this star witness did not make the case for the prosecution like she was supposed to. she set up an opportunity for them, when trayvon turned around, why are you following me, she sets that up. >> i want to look at the don
west idea. because i'm kind of surprised -- he had to come back and apologize for a knock, knock joke after lunch. >> yeah, but don west is digging down into the weeds, taking the jury out of the crime scene and putting them into the courtroom. the courtroom is where you absolutely don't want to be if you're the prosecution. you want to be in the dark alley on the lawn, on the sidewalk, you want to be with -- you want to be with the folks that were actually watching the crime take place. you want to be able to establish that there is some emotion behind this. and the courtroom is the last place that you find emotion. there is somebody in this bizarre world sitting under a seal of the state of florida in some kind of a black robe with a funny gavel in their hand. that is not the place for the prosecution to try their case. and what she does, the key to her testimony is not the detail. it is the fact that this young man, this teenage boy was on the phone with his friend eating
skittles at the time he was being stalked. >> but there was actually testimony in the courtroom, and i want you to hear this little snippet in the courtroom. >> why didn't you go to the wake or the funeral? >> i'm sorry, what? >> i didn't want to see the body. >> you didn't want to see the body? >> no. >> and why did you lie about not going to the funeral or to the wake? >> felt guilty. >> felt guilty about what? >> about i was the last person -- that i was the last person who talked. >> craig, i want to get your
reaction, because we lawyers love to catch a witness in a lie. and i thought this was a moment that she had turned a lie that she had told into a very emotional, system pathetle symp for her. >> i thought that was probably the most emotional -- that we saw rachel jeantel get on the stand. i talked to her testimony, he said she would be a reluctant witness, which we saw. and he also said she was fully prepared to try and explain that particular lie. not the other two, but that particular lie. >> is everybody a reluctant witness? i mean, have you ever had a case of people clamoring to testify? >> everybody is a reluctant witness, but if a defense attorney is defending a man's life here has to take advantage of every opportunity. i understand she is 19 years old. but you have to understand, even
the jury doesn't necessarily want to be there. so you have to take that into consideration and make sure your witness is presented in the best light possible. >> a lot more to get to. stay right there, the dramatic 911 tapes played in court. and what the jury did not know, and what they may never know. this is special coverage of week one of testimony in the murder trial of george zimmerman. you have the potential to do more in business. by earning a degree from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make an impact in your company and take your career to an even greater place. let's get started at capella.edu.
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several people who lived in the town homes around the courtyard where trayvon martin was shot and killed. they also heard parts of the 911 calls made by them. this morning, jonathan good told the court he believes he saw the individual wearing darker clothing, which we now know to be trayvon martin on top during the struggle before george zimmerman fired his gun. good also said he believed he used what was mixed martial arts position. >> what you saw was the person on top in the mma-style straddle position. >> correct. >> so it was described as ground and pound? >> correct. >> explain what ground and pound is, in your mind. >> the person on top has the chance to punch the person on top, but the person on the
bottom has the chance to punch also, it is back and forth. >> which one is the dominant position? >> the person on top. >> let's go to that night, the person you now know to be on top was trayvon martin? >> correct. >> and he was the one raining down blows to the person on the bottom, george zimmerman? >> that is what it looked like. >> but he said he never saw trayvon martin pounding george zimmerman's head into the concrete as the defense has claimed. >> did you ever see the person on top take the person on the bottom and actually slam him? >> no. >> did you see him slam the person on the concrete, his head over and over? >> no. >> did you see tonight the person on top grab the person on the bottom's head and slam it into the concrete? >> no. >> but yesterday, selma mora testified she saw george zimmerman on top of trayvon
martin. >> did you ask again what is going on? >> what is gone on? >> yes. >> and did anybody respond to you at that time? >> yes. >> and who responded to you? >> the person who was on top. >> and what did the person on top say? >> just to call the police. >> did you ever hear the person on the bottom say anything? >> no. >> at any point, did you see either the person on top or the person on the bottom get up? >> yes. >> who did you see get up? >> the one who was on top. >> when the man on top got up and started walking around, could you see the man on the bottom or the person on the bottom better?
>> yes. >> could you tell at that point whether or not the bottom was on their stomach or their back? >> he was face down. >> the court also heard testimony from jenna lauer who heard the screams, and the gun being fired. >> after that it kind of sounded like wrestling, because at one point i felt like the screams -- it sounded like it kept getting closer and closer. >> it sounds like a male. >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know why, i think they're yelling help, but i don't know. >> does he look hurt to you?
>> i can't see him, i don't want to go out there, i don't know what is going on, so -- >> is he yelling help? >> yes. >> what did you hear? >> gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> so how do we put this altogether, and alan jackson, i really wanted you to be here today. because i have seen your fine work in the courtroom in high profile murder cases. it seems to me the prosecution has their work cut out for them. they have all of these different witnesses who each only see a little piece of the puzzle. i saw martin on top, i saw zimmerman on top, how do you put it altogether and get reasonable doubt? >> you stop playing instruments and stop looking at details. you go a thousand feet up in the helicopter and look at the
totality of the circumstances. look at the uncontroverted facts, the uncontroverted fact was there was a person with a gun. trayvon martin was walking by himself, eating candy, talking to somebody on the phone. yet somebody was stalking him, tracking him, hunting him. that person armed himself with a gun and made absolutely sure that he was going to pick a fight. and by god, he did. >> and what -- >> and a young man ends up dead. >> so that is how you do it. >> you paint the picture -- >> what do you do about a witness like john good who says trayvon martin was on top, zimmerman was on the bottom yelling for help? >> because 20 minutes earlier he said i'm not sure if the orange jacket was on top or bottom, and i know that both of them were flailing. we know there was a fight. you don't dig down so deeply
that you can establish which punch was thrown and which punch landed on someone's jaw. all that matters is there was a fight, a tussle, call it whatever you need to to establish there was a fight. one man had a gun, and one kid -- >> it is not enough, it is enough to get an indictment in the case. but here you have to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt, that with intent, george zimmerman doid so and was not acting in self defense. everybody knows what is going on here. the question is, is the prosecution going to be able to overcome the situation that george zimmerman maybe was put in the situation where he was defending himself. the fact that other testimony came out, the witnesses are saying different things, at different times. their star witness is not giving enough. so how you get there is the big
hurdle. the big picture doesn't make a difference. you're not going to go past the standard of reasonable doubt unless these issues are overcome. >> the jury heard from the first person who approached george zimmerman right after the shooting. i want to listen. >> did he appear to be in shock, sir? >> no. >> and what is your opinion based on, sir? >> he wasn't acting like anything different, he was coherent, he was responding to my questions like -- just like any other person. >> okay. and your actions there, before the officer came, did you observe the defendant at any time look back at the body of trayvon martin? >> no. >> did the defendant appear calm, sir?
>> yes. >> thank you, sir, i have no further questions. >> all right, gary, for the defense, i think this is the toughest question for the defense. how do you deal with a case where there were no initial charges, then there was a ground swell of public support for prosecution, a record 2 million people on change.org signed a petition they wanted a change. in the courtroom, how do you handle that or do you even address that at all? >> i think you have to put it in as an element, why he was even arrested and here in the first place. the police investigated this case, they saw this guy was acting in self defense, they felt they didn't have enough. it was because of the ground swell, not necessarily because he committed a crime. but because political opinion and public opinion says somebody has to be arrested. a little boy has been killed and somebody has to go down for this. the facts haven't changed. in fact, the facts were far more easier to observe closer in time by the police officers and the
other people investigating, than now, when we're doing it later. the ground swell, the 20,000 who petitioned -- 2 million, i'm sorry -- >> a lot of support is still there. >> we heard incredible testimony from the first responders on scene. coming up. what they said in court and what it could mean for the prosecution and defense, that is on the other side of this break. clients are always learning more to make their money do more. (ann) to help me plan my next move, i take scottrade's free, in-branch seminars...
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>> well, this afternoon the state's witness list included a police officer who was the first to approach trayvon martin's body at the scene, and the physician assistant who treated george zimmerman the day after the shooting. officer ricardo ayala described what he saw. >> how was the position of the body? >> face down. >> to your knowledge, were you the first officer to approach trayvon martin? >> yes. >> did you know whether or not he was dead or alive at that point? >> i did not. >> did you know what his involvement was at that point? >> i did not. >> did you give him any commands, trayvon martin? >> yes, i did. >> what commands did you give him? >> i asked to see his hands. >> and where were his hands when you asked to see them? >> under his stomach. >> the final witness of the day
was the physician's assistant lindsey fulgate who testified that zimmerman's nose appeared to be broken. she recommended he see an ear, nose and throat specialist for treatment and also noted the cuts to his head. >> approximately two centimeters and zero point 5, respectively. >> how small are they? >> two centimeters would probably be this big, and point 5 is much smaller. >> and based on your observations, in view of the lacerations, did you feel that anything additionally needed to be done regarding this? like any kind of stitches or anything like that? >> that determination is based on how well the skin edges, how well they're together, to begin with. and how deep is the laceration
itself. based off the approximation, i did not feel that sutures were necessary. >> in cross examination, the defense attorney mark o 'mara talked about the blood after the shooting. >> can you see that photograph? >> i can. >> do you note additional swelling on this picture that you may not have noticed on your physical evaluation? >> there is swelling there that i can see, yes. >> okay, would that also have possibly resolved itself in the 12 hours between this picture and when you saw him? >> it could have, yes. >> do you see an area up here that seems to be misshapen? >> in the photograph, yes, i see that. >> okay, could that also be an area of swelling? >> it is normally an area of swelling, where blood can pool under the skin. >> show me how that occurs, how
does a scalp hematoma. >> it can result from a trauma, the collection of blood, or fluid. >> in effect, in laymen's terms, if i smashed my head against something and hit this part, the trauma would cause blood or flood that area? >> yes. >> similar to the nose, it would go and do its job, and recede? >> yes. >> and that is what caused the swelling? >> correct. >> and that is what caused it here? >> it could, yes. >> and that is what caused it here? >> it could, yes. >> that was the cross examination, the attorney for the state comes back and basically says that if the injuries were so severe george zimmerman would have come back, would have come back the next day. was the state -- allen, was the state successful at minimizing george zimmerman's injuries? >> the issue is the state
shouldn't have to minimize his injuries. the state should concede that ground. of course, he was injured. there was a 17-year-old kid fighting for his life. >> what about the severity of the injuries? >> the severity of the injuries were miniscule, she said two centimeters, and point 5, they were large scratches. of course they're going to bleed a little bit. he didn't have any hair. they're head wounds and they bleed a lot. they look much, much worse than they are. but again, the state should not get caught up in the level of injury of george zimmerman. they should concede that point. that is not the ground on which they need to do battle. >> that is very interesting, a very different tactic on what the prosecution is taking. and gary, let me ask you about the injuries, because it seems the defense loves these photo of george zimmerman. i have been watching the trial every day, every bit of it. and it is friday at 5:00, and
5:10, and 5:20. seems the defense is trying to run out the clock to leave the jury with the pictures of george zimmerman's bruises, and cuts and lacerations on the head. do you think that they think that george zimmerman's injuries are the strongest part of the defense's case? >> i think they have to establish he was afraid, afraid for his life, showing bumps on his head, his head was being banged on the concrete. he fell down, the punches were coming. if you can establish to the jury that there was injuries it helps to prove the case. remember, self defense is an affirmative defense, they have to prove it. >> can you see that george zimmerman felt there was serious possibility of harm, without them putting him on the stand? >> keep in mind, the second degree murder requires conscious disregard for human life.
basically in florida it is called depraved mind. you consciously disregard that. in all due respect to the defense argument they're going to say no, no, no, all the tiny details have to be proved. that is absolutely not the standard, not the standard anywhere in the united states of america. the totality of the charge, every element of the charge has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. and the question is can you prove that george zimmerman knew that taking a gun to a fight was inherently dangerous and he consciously disregarded that danger and picked a fight anyway? yes, you can. >> it sounds really good, maybe you should be prosecuting this case. but i tell you -- right now, the defense is not going to accept that version of the facts. you have a guy who -- his version of the facts, he was nervous, called people, his
intent was good, he thinks he is looking out for the neighborhood. he follows trayvon martin, the question is did he follow him to pick a fight? the tables changed? can the tables turn? the defense maintained they did. they put him in a position of harm -- >> can i get an answer -- would you put george zimmerman on the stand? >> yes, i would. >> you would? >> not in a million years, not in a million years. >> you don't think it is going to happen? all right -- >> well, the prosecutor can't, though. allen jackson a, thank you for joining us tonight. coming up, what science will play in this trial, and what the jury doesn't know about george zimmerman. stay with us. i think farmers care more about the land
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9 mm semiautomatic pistol and the bullet cartridge case. trayvon martin's body, including his clothes, his hands and bullet wounds, as well as the sidewalks and grass surrounding the murder scene. and much more. joining me now, chairman of the science department at the john jay college of criminal justice, forensic scientist, larry kobalinski, larry, you have done this work for years, i think you and i hahave discussed this regarding shows like csi. give us the benefit of your mind on this case. what do you think is the most significant forensics here? >> well, i think there are different kinds of evidence. the eyewitness testimony, ear witness testimony. but in my mind, it is the physical evidence that provides you with evidence that is
irrefutable, based on scientific analysis. and as you just pointed out there is a great deal of physical evidence. ballistics was at the heart of this since trayvon martin was killed by a gunshot. so the kinds of things we can do with ballistics, which we'll hear about next week, the distance of the muzzle to the victim. >> and that has already come out during opening statement. george zimmerman's statement is he was done, trayvon martin was on top of him, straddling him. and he shot from an upward position. that would be ballistic? >> yes, the place it entered, the damage it did. but the distance is an important factor, considered an intermediate distance, meaning the shot was fired between 16 and 18 inches, approximately. and that is important, why? because it is clear he was not shot from a distance. there was a struggle. this kind of shot is indicative of a close end shot.
it supports the story that there was a close in struggle. the shot again was at the chest level between the nipples. so it is consistent with the story that george zimmerman has told. but there is other evidence. there is gunshot residue evidence. not only on the victim and the victim's clothing, but also on the hands of george zimmerman. and that is another important factor that will come out. the autopsy will reveal a great deal about cause of death, manner of death. >> and that is probably coming next week. let me ask you about george zimmerman's injuries. because his story is that trayvon martin was pounding the back of his head on the sidewalk, on the concrete. we have seen his injuries, a couple of small lacerations on the back of his head. no significant head trauma, we heard from the physician's assistant who examined him the following day. is that consistent? >> well, when we say no serious head trauma. that is to the eye. but a person can fall down, slam
their head against the sidewalk and develop a subdural hematoma and die. he could have been in fear for his life. he felt his head being smashed against the sidewalk. and so that is a possibility. of course, there are other trauma to the body. the face, obviously, there is blood that is coming out of his nose, the nose looks broken from the photograph. and there is clearly trauma to the back of the head. there was a struggle and a beating that took place, for sure. >> all right, this is a rainy night, many, many witnesses have testified about that. there is no blood on the sidewalk where george zimmerman says his head was banged on the sidewalk. some people have suggested well, the rain could have walked that away. we know from the crime scene technician that there was no chemical testing for blood on the sidewalk, no luminol
testing, is it a mistake? >> i think it is a mistake, normally at the crime scene you're trying to connect the suspect to the victim, but here we know the suspect is connected to the victim, but not going through the crime scene in a thorough manner really doesn't make sense. it is not appropriate. >> and they brought up the failure to bag trayvon martin's hands, they say there was no blood on his hand, was that a mistake? >> it certainly was a mistake, that is normal operating procedure. the gun itself should have been dna tested to see if trayvon martin had actually touched the gun, a lot was not done that should have been done. >> would there be dna on the gun if he touched it? >> well, not necessarily, but if he touched it, there is touched dna, even a few cells contain dna from the toucher. so yes, you could get a mixture of dna seen on the gun and that would have been more information to interpret what happened. >> what do you think we should look for as the trial unfolded
next week, with the forensics? >> i think what we have here is a story, george zimmerman is telling a story. unfortunately, trayvon martin can't tell his story so he is relying on the prosecutor. the best we can do looking at science is either try to confirm george zimmerman's story or negate it. and i think that will provide the important information that should be taken in connection with the eyewitness testimony and the ear witness testimony. very notably unreliable. we know the innocence project, 309 people exonerated. 72% of those were exonerated and wrongfully convicted because of misidentification. >> that is why we love the science, the jurors love the science, we feel like it is hard, cold evidence. the jurors will be the ones to interpret it. coming up, what the jury doesn't know yet. this week. "i'm part of an american success story,"
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every little click, call or donation adds up to something big. well, this week, judge deborah nelson ruled the calls george zimmerman made to the police can be admitted as evidence. there are so many things we know but right now the jury does not know. let's talk a little bit about that. those calls obviously should help the prosecution. what does the defense hope to get admitted? >> you know, first of all, i don't think the calls are that
helpful to the prosecution. if i'm going to defend, i would say look, this guy is not after trayvon martin, he is defending his neighborhood, any time he saw anything suspicious, a garage door open, a dog wandering around. and he just did the same thing, he is told when in doubt, just call us. >> you think that the calls actually end up bolstering the defense's claim? >> i think they're probably more help to the defense overall. now, to the prosecution, he called too many times about young, black men, and if i'm the prosecution, i'm going to show the montage, the young, black men he is always calling about, thinks they're suspicious. >> this is the same officer who said this guy should be charged with manslaughter. this guy should be arrested and charged. what -- how significant could that testimony be, and are we probably more than likely going
to see this with the law enforcement? >> all the law enforcement witnesses say this guy should have been charged. there is a ton of evidence against this guy. this case is unusual because so many police initially didn't think that george zimmerman should be charged. so of course, the prosecution is going to put on police officers who think he should have been charged, think that the evidence is there against him. but i would expect the defense to put on other groups of cops saying i think it was a defense case, and i still think it is a defense case. >> is there a likelihood that there is a smoking gun, key piece of evidence, key witness we've not heard about, read about, that has not been revealed at this point. >> there may be something we don't know about, there is nothing that the lawyers don't know about. florida has broad discovery rules. everything has to be turned over to the other side.
witnesses are deposed even before the trial. >> a look at next week in the george zimmerman trial. next. you have the potential to do more in business. by earning a degree from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make an impact in your company and take your career to an even greater place. let's get started at capella.edu.
. >> [ bleep ] they always get away. those were the words in that grown man's mouth as he followed in the dark, a 17-year-old boy who he didn't know. >> knock, knock, who is there? george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? all right, good, you're on the jury. nothing? that is funny. >> that is where the week started with memorable opening
statements, memorable for different reasons, lisa, what can we expect to hear and see next week? who wille testifying for the state. >> there is still a lot. the pd, the investigator, and if i were the prosecution, i would end with the family of trayvon martin, saying that the screams they hear just before the gunshot, those are trayvon martin's screams. >> this idea that even if the jury concludes that george zimmerman was in fact, profiling trayvon martin that night, even he have they conclude that he could still be found not guilty, how is that? >> the prosecution has to show that he killed trayvon martin intentionally with a depraved heart. that is a very high legal standard. to say you profiled someone, you're suspicious of someone in the neighborhood, even for racial reasons, that is offensive, obnoxious, but not anywhere near the depraved
heart. >> lisa bloom, thanks to you, as well. we'll see you back here with continuing coverage on monday, when the judge is in court. 9:00. "lock "lockup: inside iowa state penitentiary" on the other side of this break. there are 2 million people behind bars in america. we open the gates. "lockup." >> open 11. >> i plead guilty to sexual assault. with intent to commit sexual -- >> yeah, i love pain! yeah! >> i try to go through everything in their cell looking for contraband, everything from matches to guns. >> they call me countess, because i look more female-like more than any of the other ones