tv Disrupt With Karen Finney MSNBC June 30, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
informed choice. >> it is not a choice. women should be forced to have an ultra sound if they don't want one? >> the eyes of texas, the eyes of the country are watching. >> she didn't come from particularly good circumstances. >> it really isn't for him it make statements like that. >> it is just unfortunate that she hasn't learn fed her own example. >> i think it demeans the office that hold. >> at what point must a female senator raise her hand or her voice to be recognized over the male colleagues in the room? >> all right. we've got a showdown in texas over the women's health. this is going on across our country. tomorrow at 2 okay p.m., governor rick perry will try once again to pass anti-choice senate bill 5 back into law. he brought lawmakers back for
yet another special session. this all comes on the heels, or should i say running shoes, by state senator wendy davis. that halted perry's efforts and energized supporters of women's rights around the country. as male counter parts tried to shut davis down, one democratic senator latisha vandapute continued talking. coming from her father's funeral. >> at what do the females have to raise their voice to speak over the male colleagues in the room? >> i'm very honored. i want it start with you, senator. but first my condolences on your father's passing.
>> thank you, very much. >> looking ahead to tomorrow, what can we expect in the special session? >> this second special session, i think, will be just as tumultuous. when people understand what their government is about to do and particularly women, they will descend on this capitol just like they did the other night. if thousands would show up and still be there at 2:00 in the morning, can you imagine what will happen? when the first house hearing on these bills occur on tuesday right in the middle of the day. is there any way it stop it from proceeding? i've heard the republicans kind of manipulated rules perhaps last time, this times sounds better prepared? >> well i think they are probably going to learn from their lessons, be better prepared. because the democrats certainly
outmaneuver them parliamentary wise. but hearings have to start in the house. at least with these bills. and it has to go through the process. for 24 hours. people have to come and testify and the bill has to be argued on the house floor then sent to senate. the repeat of the whole process. so i think we will be better time wise management from the republicans. but if the citizens of texas don't want their government to really harm women's health, then they need to come to the capitol. they need to write, e-mail, phone, show up and be heard. >> senator, i also want to follow up on what the republicans did. their shenanigans. someone was trying to help her as she put on a back brace. someone said that broke the rules. then they changed the time stamp
to shot bill was passed on june 25th but only to be caught and have it changed back to june 26th. you called for legislation. how are you going to proceed on that investigation? >> well, as i understand it, in travis county, the county seat right here in austin, will be investigating. it is very serious when documents can be changed. in particular a government document. the problem is it was done in the light of the internet and the press was there and you know, they got caught. and so you just can't bend the rules and throw them by the way side, which had been happening most of the night. in, though, is very serious. changing a government document. so the integrity unit in travis county is doing an
investigation. >> this morning senator davis emphasized this is not about her. this is about many men and women who will face real life consequences. let's take a listen. >> texas we have 42 clinics right now. only five, excuse me, would remain open if this bill were to pass. and people who are completely objective, like the american obstetrics and gynecology college, are saying to us, if this happens in texas, women in impoverished remote areas of texas and believe me that means thousands and thousands and thousands of women will no longer have access to this safe reproductive healthcare. >> i want to disclose that i sit on the board of pro choice america. this isn't just happening in texas, right? it is caught happening across the country in ohio they are
trying to refidefine pregnancy. i feel like this is another instance where people will not take this sitting down, literally and figurativfigurati. this is always a concern after presidential election, staying motivated for the next election and the next election. >> i think that's right. i any what we saw this texas is a true uprising. thousands of of women, and men. 77% of voters left the polls in 2012, toling polsters that they wanted roe versus wade the law of the land. these trap laws, 20-week abortion ban that is also part of the texas wrs these are intended for roe versus wade. honestly, the republican party seems to be somewhat split.
there are some saying let's proceed with the agenda but use softer rhetoric. but that mask is slipping badly. look at what governor perry said about senator davis and despairaged her background. this is demeaning to her office, just as she said it was, then it inflames women's rights and inflames men's rights. >> we were trying to tell but it now and speaking of that, there was quite an interesting exchange this morning. i love that some of the republicans propose things and support measures they get all squeamish about when you talk about it. so we have this exchange between former south care loina senator jim demint, telling our own rachel maddow that women want the invasive ultra sounds. >> she is forgetting about the thousands of women who want an informed choice. who want the opportunity to get
a free ultra sound, which they can get, not from planned parenthood -- >> it is not free and it an choice. it is mandated -- >> it is free in many cases -- >> don't you just love when fellows think they know better than we do. senator, we have seen this behavior, not just in texas, but in lots of states where time is spent on these kinds of things instead of education where texas ranks 49th in spending per student and 44th in public high school graduation rates. or unemployment in texas at 6.5% and in terms of infrastructure, 38% of texas roads are considered to be in poor condition and 8,680 bridges in texas are considered functionally obsolete. why is it that conservatives aren't spending their time, energy and passion on those things and instead, trying to harm the health of women in this state? >> during the regular session,
during regular rules, all of these very egregious bills about women's health didn't get passed. so in the special session, and now the second special session, there are different rules or they have gone to -- thrown out the rule book. and we can't stop them parliamentary wise in the senate. but what has happen said that we did concentrate on jobs, education. we are trying to concentrate on water infrastructure and roads. but when republicans sink so low that all they really want to do is address dress the very local miare in the that goes to their primary vote, then you get very devisive issues and this is a red meat issue. >> terry, i want to you weigh in as well. h th is a similar pattern we see in republican controlled house in washington. >> that's absolutely right. look at what trent franks was able to do recently with eric
cantor and john boehner's help. pushing through the abortion ban. clearly a violation of roe v. wade. you know, in some say what is interesting is that they are becoming more and more and more aggressive. i believe because they are so afraid of the tea party wing of the republican party. i said earlier that to a friend of mine, i said, we need to stop calling it pro life. they now have become to be pro why. they are trying to require teachers to actually give false information to kids about reproductive health in north carolina. in ohio they are trying to shift tax money to crisis centers that time and again have shown to give false information about their current health conditions. >> some measures require doctors to give misinformation to their patients. thank you terry o'neal for
joining me. thank you senator van deputte. we are with you tomorrow. >> thank you. we will need every voice. >> thanks you. senator, you're a hero. >> next, same-sex marriage watching history and ideology clyde. stay with us. this is disrupt on msnbc. >> electing mitt romney, getting iowa state reform for same-sex marriage and the aagenda, you lost all three -- >> well, to turn out with the evangelical vote and come out in record number -- one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. i wanted to ask you a couple questions.card. i've got nothing to hide. my bill's due today and i haven't paid yet. you can pay up 'til midnight online or by phone the day it's due. got a witness to verify that? just you.
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senate. >> republicans don't like the plan. >> we will do our own bill through regular order. >> we need an american -- what the house republicans are doing is giving a republican solution. >> the supreme court declared the federal defensive marriage act unconstitutional. has decided that it cannot take up the challenge to california's proposition 8. >> they dragged we the people from behind the wheel of this repub lk and car jacked the nation. >> these decisions signal equality for so many of our citizens. >> i think what you're going to see is this leads, as we are seeing, over the weekend in california. lawlessness. >> once again, congressal recess a cliff hanger. families are wondered about student loans. a chance of a bipartisan fix on voting rights and how many tax dollars do they have for yet another supreme court tax decision. . first, battle lines are drawn on immigration reform. looks like republicans versus republicans.
the senate passed immigration reform but the house op leader shi wants their own bill. so just what kind of fun house mirror version will they come up with? that's why i've got people to help me talk about p tp michelle bernard, president of the bernard center for public policy and reid wilson editor in chief at national journal's hot line. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> michelle, i want to start with you. the republicans, i find it fascinating, there is pressure it get latino votes but the tea party is also gearing up. we have seen them making it clear that they are, you know, ready, you know, to go back out there and fight this battle. so this looks more to me like one where the democrats can kind of step back and let the republicans fight it out. >> i think that's exactly what is going to happen. quite frankly, it is just sad to see that we had an immigration bill with a pathway to citizenship come out of the senate. you know, it is being recorded
that chuck schumer believes by the end of the year, house republicans will come to their sense and pass an immigration bill. but if they can't pass a farm bill, how are they going to pass an immigration bill and quite frankly, you know, given everything we have seen happen in congress, given everything we have seen in the supreme court this week on a variety of issues, you can't help but sit back and think to yourself that house republicans do not want an immigration bill passed because they believe that rather than going out and giving people of color a reason to vote for the republican party it's easier just to keep people out of the country and make sure they don't vote for any party that respects their needs and wishes. >> on that point, reid, nancy pelosi said earlier this morning with, she seemed to send a signal to moderate republicans to put pressure on moderates it put pressure on the republican leadership in congress. let's listen to her on "meet the press" this morning.
>> we wouldn't even be where we are right now had it not been that 70% of hispanics voted for president obama, voted democratic in the last election. i believe that the members of congress many more that have directly effected themselves by the number of hispanics in their district will do what is right for our country. it is certainly right for republicans if they ever want it win a presidential race. >> if you go down the list and look at republicans that have latinos in their district and places where it will make a difference, it feels like it is, again, in their interest. but the moderate versus conservatives. do we think it'll just fall apart when congress comes back? >> i think it is the folks looking at larger picture versus at folks looking in their own narrow interests. one of your last guests talked about catering to primary voters. same thing is happening nationally over immigration as well. you can have the national
republicans, leadership, desperately want it get this bill passed. eric can'tor majority leader. they want to get something through because they understand the politics. they looked at the exit polls as much as nancy pelosi did. they realized they cannot get at at the national election. especially given the growth of the hispanic electorate in the country. now the folks looking at their own sort of narrow districts, people who have to get re-ele re-elected in a republican primary, they are throwing out the roadblocks to this thing. it'll be fascinating to watch just how john boehner deals with this in terms of trying to lead his caucus and maybe you know maybe this is the moment where he says it is time to break the hastert rule for the good of the party. he take the conservative wrath and becomes the hero in 20 years. >> that's my question, he doubled down it is the majority of the majority before they left
for recess. what leverage does he have, because i think we all get it that there is a, you know, a swath of republican leadership and moderate republicans in the house who understand why the politics of this. but what leverage do they have on those who are resisting? >> this is one of the fascinating parts about the 113th congress right now is republicans have realized they no longer have this carrot and stick approach to getting their members into shape. fascinating front page story by paul cane, talking just about how little leverage boehner has. he doesn't wrap anybody on the knuckles. he didn't punish anybody. by wait, now that republicans got rid of ear marks they don't have any incentives to give some of their members. john boehner says, it'll only cause pour problems if i offer my own thoughts on immigration. here is the speaker of the house -- >> exactly. say what he thinks. >> does he say what he thinks about this bill. >> michelle, i want it shift gears here.
the same-sex marriage bill still very much alive, despite striking down doma and california's prop 8 case back to california and those marriages have resumed in california. i want to play a little bit of sound from ralph reid this morning on "meet the press," talking about how his camp is gearing up for the fight. >> what you're going to see in iowa like imposing same-sex marriage -- >> supreme court. >> state supreme court. passing constitutional amendment to ratify that marriage should be between a woman and man -- >> this is the issue of politics are complicated for republicans. i believe a couple house members have said they will introduce legislation, maybe as early as next week it try again on doma. but i don't think there will be a lot of will within their caucus to get that done. given the other issues they have to deal with.
>> whether it at the state or federal level, this is such a group of people that are digging their heels in and fighting the sea change and i think we will just as we saw, we will talk about it on an unrelated matter but as we saw on the voting rights act, states like texas for example, introducing legislation within hours of the supreme court decision, i think we will see that happening on state levels with regard to doma on a state by state basis, the supreme court made the right decision but we are also seeing pandora's box office with regard it people who will try to change the constitution as well as people who are in favor of guy marriage trying to figure out how to make sure that a legally binding marriage is accepted in every state in the nation. >> as our own rachel maddow said, everything ralph reid trite it fight against, lost,
thankfully. i, for one, can't wait to see what republicans will take up first when they come back next week. thanks to michelle reid and ber mard wilson. president obama spoke to the in capetown south africa and spoke of nelson mandela. >> no one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, background or religion. people must learn to hate. if they have learn it hate, they can be taught to live. for love comes for naturally for the human heart than its opposite. what makes a sleep number store different?
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facebook and twitter. howdymo tweeted, oh, make no mistakes, assault on vra has set me for life. >> la vern wrote, let's keep it real bb if you want your voices heard, everyone knows when voting day is. get your ducks in order by knowing what just happened and start taking care of your business so that you can vote. you can only feel as suppressed as you let them suppress. another debate on social media, which official twitter hash tag should we use for the show? we wanted our viewers and supporters to make the decision. so votes have been cast. the results are in. and the winner -- drum roll --
hash tag disrupters. thanks to everyone who voted. we are thrilled you are engaged in the conversation. that is what disrupt is all about. please keep it up. stay with us. we've got a lot more coming up. >> you're here and you're clear with your message. >> that's right. you're here, you're clear, and if you happen to be queer, my husband runes a camp that can cure us with jesus. rs old. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our history matter to you? because for more than two centuries, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. ♪ and the next great idea could be yours. ♪ otherworldly things.
s♪ i'm a hard, hard worker dand i'm working every day. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm saving all my pay. ♪ small businesses get up earlier and stay later. and to help all that hard work pay off, membership brings out millions of us on small business saturday and every day to make shopping small huge. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. even before the supreme court decimated the voting rights act this week, we knew there was a problem under the 2012 election where we saw unprecedented efforts to block the polls. rolling back voting and other schemes. a senate political move and the measures largely disenfranchise city people, minorities and all of whom tend to vote for
democrats. the structural obstacles as well. look at these lines in florida where some people today wait six hours to cast their vote. this problem disproportionately impacts people of color. nationwide african-americans had to wait 60% longer than whites. legislators doubled down on restrictive voting measures. more than 30 states just sense january. at the same time, what happened in 2012 kicked off a new round of action it make elections freer and fairer and from congress to grass roots and everywhere in between, efforts make it easier for people to vote and make sure that every vote counts. so even without the voting rights act in full force, there are steps we can taken a we must take to strengthen our democracy and and i'm thrilled to make michael waldman at nyu here to talk about me with some of that.
michael, i want to start with, because we had this conversation in 2012 where already at you guys add plan and were talking about what could be done. so tell me about what could be done at the local level. >> making it harder for people to vote all over the place as you just described, most efforts were blocked before the election. we saw problems like the long lines. but it kind of created momentum, not only for bad laws which we have seen in recent years, but for voting reforms making it easier for people to vote and register. modernizing voting registration. using the current computer system to make it so everyone who want to be registered can be.
tens of millions of people and in states like colorado passing comprehensive voting reform. oregon just last week began to pass automatic voter restrags. >> simple modizatiernizationmod >> it would take it out of politics, take it out of partisanship, take it out of racial divides. and that is a very strong positive trend. of course the supreme court case throws at the very least within a spanner in the works. >> so the right to vote is the most mentioned right in the constitution. but i guess i was surprise bd about this. it is not begin teed. it is not guaranteed. to me, that seems like an affirmative light.
right /*. >> so some folks looked that voting rights case and said we should have a movement for a constitutional amendment to guarantee the right to vote. maybe we will get to that point. i guess i would say in fact the right to vote is in the constitution and the supreme court ought to recognize that. the 15th amendment, is very clo explicit. it says you have a right to vote and gives congress specifically the authority to implement it. not the courts because the dread scott case has just come out before where the supreme court showed it wasn't always on the side of equal rights. >> right. >> the 15th amendment said we want it make sure everyone has that right. very explicitly what the supreme court ignored in this shelby county decision.
>> you have, it seems like what you hear from congress, republicans were kind of using the same formula that i feel like justice roberts did in looking at the number of people, african-americans, latinos, who came out to vote, to make the argument, clearly there is no problem because all of these people came out to vote. which we talked about, when have you it wait nine hours or not sure your vote will be counted or you make it harder and erect these barriers for people to vote, that's what we are talking about. we are not just talking about the numbers of people. >> one of the reasons people were able to vote is because of the right it vote act. like saying it is pouring rain, i'm not getting wet, so i don't need my umbrella. it is irrelevant. out of date. i hope there will be bipartisan action to fix what has been
broken now by the court and the voting rights act. a few years ago this was passed almost unanimously by congress. this genuinely is nonpartisan. or it has been. a number of key house republicans, like eric cantor, they have said, we have to do something to fix this. >> ways going to say, i'm not sure i would put my hopes on that. >> i wouldn't get ready for that big old bill signing just yet. i don't think we should let congress off the hook. we should insist to democrats they make this priority and republicans that they live up to what they did a few years ago. >> i've got a soundbite here from congressman jim demint from earlier today. i think it gives us a sense of what we are up against.
take a listen. >> there is one session that used 50-year-old voting participation records and the fact is today and those nine states of participation of african-americans of voting is as high or higher than white. all the court said is if there a compelling case based on data today they need it look at it. but i think it is a good judgment and it won't hinder vi voting rights -- >> i was going to say, that is former senator jim demint. and the other argument we've had, feels like democrats get led down the path of arguing about voter id rather than the vo right to vote. seems to me, we have the opportunity to reset that debit. and not get side tracked just on the voter id. >> the fact is, i'm not against
voter id. i'm against voter id that people don't have. >> or can't get. >> or can't get. the kind of id proposed in states around the country. our id, about 11% of eligible voters just don't have. but even though there is broad support in some sense that you need to be who you say you are, people do not want it undermine the basic tenet of american democracy. starting in the declaration of independence, we were all created equal, and that's what makes us different as americans. we should not make it harder for any americans to vote. there are easy ways to have id that everybody has. you could have lengths tronnic poll books. everything else is done through computers. yet when you vote, it is this fumbling through paper. if we had electronic poll books, it would be easier.
if they don't have id, take their picture with a smart phone. there are so many different ways to do it if it wasn't subject to political and partisan manipulation, which is what we have been seeing. a mandate to make sure there is no discrimination in voting. we have a broad mandate too to make sure elections run well. which also keeps lots of people from voting. i'm hopeful we can keep that momentum going. on the common sense steps to modernize election chess will have a very positive impact on these other things as well. >> all right. thank you so much for joining me. >> my pleasure. up next, many people take to the skreetreets. this is disrupt on msnbc. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain
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have been demonstrating on the anniversary of of mohamed morsi in the palace. what's the latest there? report report tens of thousands are outside the palace. right now military helicopters still flying overhead keeping a watchful eye on what is happening below. throughout the course of the day, several marchs were organized by a group of protesters organizing a petition demanding president morsi step down from power. they have more than 10,000 signatures and they brought them to the palace, or that's what plan was. over the past year he has run the country amok. crime is soaring.
there has been very little democratic reform. supporters of the president gathered not too far away from here at a similar protest. their numbers much smaller than when a we are seeing here. they say the president is the democratically elected leader of the country. he does have the mandate to govern. that division of of the two camps is what is leading to violence. this have been clashes. at least two killed already. that's why the military is on high alert. the president says he is not stepping down and there are no intentions for him it meet any of the demand of the people that have gathered here behind me. but the ones here and tahrir square and elsewhere say they plan to stay in their place until the president answered their calls. >> you know, we look at demonstrations and compare those to the iconic images we saw in
2012. it seems like the brotherhood learn had the hard way that it is hard to be in charge. it is easier to be the one protesting than the one in charge of making change happen. >> absolutely. that's a very good point. people here were demanding two things. one an actual improvement of day-to-day lives. economy remains in a very dire situation. prices of fuel are beyond the reach of many people here. at the same time they want to see the president at least try it make political concessions to oppositions. one. major concerns of many of the opposition says that this country and revolution are hijacked by the muslim brotherhood and islamists. to their point the opposition are saying because of that, they are going back to the streets demanding that the true demands of the revolution are met. that president says that what is behind the people behind me remnant of the old regime trying to destabilize the country and stall the country's transition to a genuine democracy.
that's what he says he is trying to do. >> nbc news. thank you so much. more conservative governors put their ideology ahead of the health of the people they are supposed to serve. here is what we are doing about it coming up next. this is "disrupt", msnbc. [ shapiro ] at legalzoom, you can take care of virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.
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we just marked the one year anniversary of the affordable care act police constitutional. 21 states are still blocking its implementation including louisiana. here is bobby jind al last year. >> in louisiana, we're not doing neither one of those things. >> that's a no. but by the administration's own estimates, medicaid could means 214,000 uninsured residents of his state and save louisiana as much as $510 million in medicaid
spending over the next decade. instead, louisiana is cutting money to healthcare. here are a few facts about the sugar state. it ranks next to last in overall health with the second highest rate of obesity. second lowest birthrate and bad numbers for cancer, cardiovascular deaths and high blood pressure. it is why community healthcare access is so important in areas like this and why msnbc is once again partnering up with the national association of free and charitable clinics. the association is holding a free health clinics on july 3rd. people can get free health exams and medication and healthcare. one of the medical directors at nafcc joins me now. doctor, welcome. >> thank you so much, karen. thank you for what you guys are doing. >> so i want to say to, what do you say to the governor and
others who are saying on one head they are rejecting the medicaid extension and also that basingly this is endangering the health of their citizens. >> they need to rethink this tp people are dying because they do not have access to care. by denying expansion of medicaid we are denying it to those who need it most. >> how much in your area do people rely on free clinics? >> oh, significantly. especially in new orleans where there are many free safety net clinic set up. they are in jeopardy since medicare is not expanded and there is a waiver that will expire in year that will put those claims in jeopardy. many people depend on the clinics. one in four louisianians does not have insurance but many are working so they need healthcare. >> this is the eighth time msnbc sponsored a clinic. what kind of issues do you typically see at these clinics? >> a lot of chronic diseases.
hypertension, high cholesterol. diabetes. precancerous skin lesions we weren't able to treat there but got them into the proper treatment. breast mass that could be breast cancer. so we send them to screensing. you can get 90 days prescriptions. some people haven't been seen in five years since the hurricane. >> it sound like, as we talk about, when we talk about the importance of healthcare, these are the kinds of things if people had regular access it a doctor and check-ups they might be able to be treated and not get to the critical phase. >> oh, definitely. that the who point. preventative medicine. we have more of a disease management than prehealthcare. we are trying to get people into
care so they can have preventative care before leave are new orleans. >> so what can people do to help? >> volunteers and donations to do more of the clinics. i think you have the website up. nafcclinics.org. we still need more people. please register. come out. any able-bodied person can come out and volunteer. this is one of the best things i've done as a physician is helping these people that need healthcare. >> thanks you. folks, be sure if you are in town you volunteer. take a look at the website. we have the web address up on the screen. just to recab, msnbc is partnering about the national association of free clinics. hosting a one free day this wednesday july 3rd. our own reverend al sharpton will host from the clinic that night. if you would like to propose healthcare to those without insurance, go to
urgentcare.msnbc.com or go to nafcclinics.org. or you can make a donation or volunteer. if you need to see a doctor, can you make an appointment as well when you get on that site. that about does it for me. thank you for joining us. find us on facebook and twitter. now don't go anywhere because "the ed show" is coming right up next. wait a sec! i found our colors. we've made a decision. great, let's go get you set up... we need brushes. you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the the home depot. right now get $5 off one-gallon cans and $20 off five-gallon
vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. good evening americans. welcome to the ed show. it it's 5:00 eastern. let's get to work. >> i hate to throw cold water on the celebration on the other side. >> the christian conservatives
are furious with this. >> i believe in traditional marriage. >> that is something that god createed. that is something that god will define. >> marriage has been the base of this decision. >> justice can be opinion in many respects was incredibly insulting. >> i thought he was the leader of the potty training republicans. >> your decisions don't mean a whole hell of a lot. >> jesus tells us to love everyone. even the homosexuals, but it is just so hard. >> a holy quinn tet who goes against the laws of nature and nature's god. >> i also don't buy into this sort of weak notion of history that this is sort of an inevitable train and this is where we're going to go. good to have