tv News Nation MSNBC July 1, 2013 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
a possible testimony this week of trayvon martin's parents, tracy martin and sabrina fulton. they're expected to tell the jury the screams on that particular 911 tape belong to their son. the jury will also hear from another key witness, lead investigator in the martin shooting, who originally recommended that zimmerman be charged with manslaughter. i want to take you back right now to mark o'mara, who's questioning the detective on the scene, also who questioned. let's listen in. >> you had mentioned -- i'm going to skip around just a little bit and hit subjects rather than the timeline. the entirety of your true interaction with mr. zimmerman was on the tape, correct? it was small bits that were not -- >> a little bit before i could get it started.
introductions to each other when i walked in the room, i'm sure. and something that might have been said as i walked out. >> sure. the substance of it we've all heard now from the tape itself. >> yes. >> and as to that interview, you don't have a great deal of testimony that you can offer the jury except to listen to the tape, correct? >> pretty much. >> okay. so why are we questioning you? >> sorry for the interruption. you may proceed. >> why, then, are we spending a few minutes questioning you? we're going to move it along. obviously you know from previous testimony, i want to make sure we set the stage properly and anything that may have some inquiry we follow it. >> okay. >> the -- let's go to one of the parts that were talked about concerning what wasn't on the tape.
that was the part about whether or not you were catholic or christian. i want to just spend a moment on that, if i might. he noticed your cross, you said, and asked you if you were catholic. >> yes. >> he told you he was catholic? >> i don't know that he said he was catholic. he asked if i were catholic and i told him i wasn't. i assumed that he was catholic. >> all right. and then you told him you were christian. his response was what again? >> because in the catholic religion it is always wrong to kill somebody. >> your response to that? >> was that if what you're telling me is truthful, then i don't believe that that is what god means when he means to kill somebody. >> is it your opinion that if what he was telling you was true -- oh. presuming that it was true, it was your suggestion then to comfort him in whatever he was working through. >> to let him know if he was
being truthful that he was in fear for his life and he had to kill trayvon, that i don't believe that's what god meant. >> okay. then i think it was right after that you had said that trayvon martin was not identified yet. >> we did not know who he was at the time. >> yes. and that was when you communicated that to george zimmerman, correct? >> i don't know if it was directly at that same moment, but yes. we spoke about not being able to know who the victim was. or i made a statement. i don't know what it was in response to. we hadn't yet identified the victim. >> and his response was that he didn't even realize that trayvon martin had passed, correct? >> he gave me, yeah, like a blank stare on his face and said, you know, what do you mean you don't know the victim?
we said, we don't know who he is. he said, he's dead? i asked him -- i mean, i said to him, i thought you knew that. >> at which point he just sort of sunk his head down, look hg do -- looking down to the floor? >> towards the table. >> and shook his head no? >> i mean, something like this. like he was just -- >> what did that evidence to you? >> i believed him that he didn't realize he was dead based on what i had seen, but i don't want to speculate as to what it meant beyond that. i'm not sure. >> there were questions about -- and it was on tape -- about him
needing medical care. that was a concern of him, was it not? at least at one point. >> yes, at one point he said he wasn't sure if he should go. >> but it was thought you talked about it and he was willing to continue with the interview rather than go to the hospital, correct? >> yes. >> did that cause you any concern? >> no, only because fd had already seen him, and i assumed they had said it was okay for him to come to the police department if he had. >> okay. during the interview with you, and i know you would defer to the tape, but since you were the one three dimensional there with him, did he evidence that he was angry with trayvon martin? >> no. >> that he had hatred for him? >> no. >> spite or ill will? >> no. >> that he had anything that would suggest to you some type of bad attitude towards trayvon
martin? >> no. >> rather he seemed to be affected by the fact he realized trayvon martin had passed? >> he seemed affected by that. >> you were, aside from officer tim smith, really the first officer to have a detailed conversation or any conversation with him about this case, right? >> yes. >> and that was about -- you gave us the time, but tell us again, if you can, if you recall the timing of it. >> i believe i was called about 8:00, so probably prior to 9:00 maybe i was speaking to him. >> and this happened at 7:15, 7:30. he was transported after being seen by medical. you got to him within an hour and a half of the event? >> i believe so. >> do you know if he had contact with anybody else besides
sanford police department? >> i don't know. i only know what was told to me. >> and that was? >> rescue, police. that was all i knew about. >> though not arrested, he was in police control or custody literally from the scene forward, was he not? >> yes. >> and his phone was taken from him, correct? >> yes. >> mention was made that -- first of all, you took the taped statement, correct, and we've heard that. then you asked him to do a written statement. why have both? >> i believe chris serrino had asked me to have him put it on a written statement as well. >> okay. with that microphone, it's very sensitive.
if you get more than five inches back, we can't hear anything. there's a range in there if you can try and stay within. >> i'll try. >> thank you. okay. you've had a chance to look at both of those statements, correct? >> yes. >> of course, you heard yours today -- i'm sorry. you heard your tape today and had to read the second one today, correct? >> i don't recall reading. >> no, i mean -- >> having read the written one prior to today. >> but you just read it today. >> yes. >> in nine years or so of law enforcement experience, did you notice any significant inconsistencies in those two statements? >> significant, no. >> but there were certainly some, weren't there? >> i'm sure there's some. >> is that expected in your business? >> yes, most people don't tell you the same story the same way twice each time. >> why is that? >> i don't know. i mean, just telling a story you don't tend to get the exact details the same each and every time.
>> so when you looked at those two statements, did you consider them to be significantly different so that you thought he was lying on one or fudging on one? >> well, i couldn't have made that determination then because i hadn't read the statement back then. >> i mean right now. >> right now, no, i don't see any significant differences. >> so in your experience when taking multiple statements from a witness, sometimes there are differences? >> yes. >> how about witnesses who have gone through a traumatic event? does that affect their ability to recount stories? >> yes, as well as the same event being viewed by two different people. it's sometimes different. >> okay. how does a traumatic event affect their ability to retell stories multiple times? >> i'm not sure how it works, but i just know it happens. >> okay. you were present during investigator serrino's statement
as well -- well, the statement he gave officer serrino as well, correct? >> yes. >> did you notice significant differences in that statement compared to these two? >> not significant, no. >> but some minor changes? >> some minor differences, yes. >> and do you recall what they were? >> i remember one where he had told me he walked away. then in the interview when we listened to the tape, he was telling dispatch he had ran away. like he was running. >> when you say he, you're talking about -- at one point he told you, he being george zimmerman, told you trayvon martin walked away. >> walked between the houses. >> walked between the houses. yet, a review of, let's say, investigator serrino's statements say he told him that trayvon martin had run away. and that's a difference you noticed? >> right. and that's what he had said on the dispatch was that he ran. >> right. i was going to say, we know from
previous evidence that the dispatch nonemergency call suggests that he ran away. you're aware of that, aren't you? >> yes. >> and that was a difference you noted. >> yes. >> consider that to be significant? >> no. >> why not? >> because i just assumed that he had come in and out of view at least twice according to him. whether or not he was running or walking i don't think was -- mattered. >> okay. do you attach -- when you look at different statements and determine whether or not the differences are significant, do you attach to those differences whether or not they help tell a narrative that might be beneficial to the witness or opposed to another witness? is that part of what you look at? >> yes, it's part of what we look at. >> okay. so if running or walking isn't significant to the overall
narrative, it doesn't seem to catch you as being a significant difference. >> it had been prior to -- the running and walking occurred prior to when we know on the 911 call he had lost sight of him. so it wouldn't have changed anything. that's why i didn't feel it was that important. >> okay. when he said to you that he had walked through past the "t" because he wasn't sure of the name of the street he just left, did that cause you any concern? >> i thought that as a neighborhood watch person, he would have known the names of the streets, yes. >> okay. so tell me how you absorb that or what you thought about that. >> i was wondering if he was wanting to get out of the car. >> okay. have you had a chance to go down by the scene to see whether or not there are street signs at that area? >> i know there's no street
signs where he said he parked. >> okay. were there any questions that you asked him or any changes in his story along the way that caused you concern? >> not significantly, no. >> you've had those cases, haven't you, where witnesses are telling you a story s you might question them a little bit, then all of the sudden they remember a whole different fact? >> yes. >> okay. any of that happen here? >> no. >> when he told you that trayvon
martin got up or said something to him, words like you got me or words to that effect, did that surprise you? >> no. >> and when he said he had gotten on top of trayvon martin to spread his hands or to do something, he had told another person to help him. did that cause you any concern, that part of the presentation by mr. zimmerman? >> no. >> in a written statement that mr. zimmerman wrote out for you, focus was on the fact he called trayvon martin a suspect.
did he know trayvon martin's name at that time? >> no. >> did you? >> no. >> okay. so he had to be called something, wouldn't you agree? >> yes. >> did you consider suspect to be such an outrageous term to use it caused you concern? >> i didn't read it at the time. >> how about today? >> no, i don't think it's unusual. >> okay. >> we are continuing to hear testimony from detective doris singleton from the sanford police department. she's the officer who interviewed george zimmerman at the police station the night of the shooting. she's giving more details on her interaction with george zimmerman. we'll continue to listen in. we're going to take a quick break and be right back. [ male announcer ] this is kevin.
to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ (announcer) scottrade knows our and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me.
i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade. voted "best investment services company." with delicious pringles stix. ♪ ♪ everything pops with pringles stix. [ crunch ] where over seventy-five percent of store management started as i'm the next american success story. working for a company hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it, or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart.
we continue to hear testimony from detective doris singleton. right now she's looking at a photograph of the apartment complex where trayvon martin was shot and explaining george zimmerman's version of what happened and that he believed someone had jumped out of the bushes. let's listen in. >> here. >> again, also further down in front of each unit, correct? >> yes. each unit has bushes around their air conditioners from what i can tell in that picture. >> of course, none of them had any lights of them from your view in the nighttime photographs, did they? >> no, there's no lights in the bushes. >> so there was not a concern of yours that mr. zimmerman first said he may have come out of
bushes and then said not exactly sure where he came from. >> right. >> did that seem to be an event that -- or a difference that could cause you any concern whatsoever? >> no, i was just looking at the bushes while we were out there trying to figure out -- this kid's pretty tall. if he came out of bushes, where he might have been coming from. >> would you agree with the pictures that we saw of that night that he could easily have simply just come out of the darkness? >> objection, speculation. >> sustained. >> nothing further then, your honor. >> thank you very much. any redirect? >> officer singleton, wouldn't you agree that that was significant or what was not significant is up to the jury? >> sure. >> you're just an objective state of mind. you have an opinion based on what he asked you. >> yes, he asked me for my opinion. >> right? and wouldn't you agree that what's important is what the jury believes. >> it's important what they believe, yes. >> isn't it true, ma'am, when mr. o'mara kept asking you
questions, you had not been out to the scene. >> i had never gone to the scene that night. >> and isn't it also true that the defendant is telling you that he thought the person you now know, the 17-year-old boy, was alive, correct? >> i object, your honor. leading. >> sustained. >> the defendant told you -- i believe you told mr. o'mara that he said he was surprised to learn that trayvon martin was alive. >> he didn't say that. >> how did he react when you told him he was dead? >> he said, he's dead. >> that left you the impression he thought he was alive? >> that's my impression. i believed he thought he was alive. >> and mr. zimmerman, the defendant in his statements to you, told you that he was scared of the defendant, of mr. zimmerman -- i'm sorry, of trayvon martin. >> objection, your honor. that's a mischaracterization of the evidence and the testimony
to date. >> i'll be glad to rephrase it. >> okay. thank you. >> in his statements to you, mr. zimmerman told you that he claims that the defendant was -- he was being bashed, his head was being bashed into the concrete, correct? >> slammed into the concrete. >> slammed. and he had to shoot the person you now know as trayvon martin. >> that's what he said he did. >> you weren't there. >> no. >> you don't know whether that's true or not. >> but at some point you told him that the victim was actually dead, correct? >> yes. >> and how did he react? >> shocked. >> okay. do you know why if mr. zimmerman, the defendant, claimed or didn't realize that the victim was dead why he would holster his gun back if he was so scared of trayvon martin if he was still alive why he would holster his gun back?
>> objection, your honor. speculation. >> sustained. >> do you know why mr. zimmerman told you he holstered his gun back? did he elaborate on that? >> objection. i'm sorry, i think that was a factual question. i apologize. >> did mr. zimmerman elaborate as to why he would holster his gun back if he thought the victim was alive? >> he didn't put those two terms together. >> that wasn't significant to you? >> i don't know if that's significant. >> well, tell me, how many times have you gone out to a scene where you were trying to apprehend a suspect, right, a person that you believe has been committing a crime, and you don't believe the person is -- or you think the person is a threat, do you holster your gun if the person is still at large or moving around? >> no. >> what do you do? >> i wait until it's safe. >> right, you keep the gun on the person until you make sure he's dead or apprehended, correct?
>> yes. >> by the way, did you use the word suspect, or did he, mr. zimmerman, use the word suspect? >> i didn't you the word suspect to him. >> so when mr. o'mara asked you about the word suspect being significant, that's because you're used to using the word suspect when you're apprehending someone who you feel is committing a crime, correct? >> yes. that's what i use. >> do you know why mr. zimmerman switched from using the word they to suspect when he referred to the victim? >> objection, your honor. that would be speculation. >> sustained. >> you would agree that would be pure speculation, right? >> yes. >> objection. her answer would be speculation? i'm sorry -- >> changes of the terms would be
speculati speculation. >> you agree that would be you speculating, correct? >> yes. >> just like all the questions that mr. o'mara asked you about significance and all that. that would be you speculating, correct? >> which question? >> all the questions he asked you about whether you knew that mr. zimmerman had ill will, hatred, or anger at trayvon martin. you aren't able to get into mr. zimmerman's mind at the time he did the shooting, were you? >> no. >> you weren't able to get into his mind as to why he followed this person, were you? >> only what he told me. >> so you didn't know what was in his heart or mind at the time that he sought out or to use his words, followed the 17-year-old unarmed boy? >> i only knew what he told me.
>> you were also asked about whether there was an eyewitness or not there. you hadn't interviewed anybody up to the point -- you interviewed the defendant. >> no, i didn't speak to anybody prior to speaking with zimmerman. >> if i could have a moment, judge. >> yes, you may. >> mr. o'mara asked you about the screaming. remember mr. o'mara asking you questions about the recording about screaming? >> yes. >> okay. mr. zimmerman, the defendant, told you he saw people out there, correct? >> yes. >> so he had to have known that if somebody was screaming,
whether it was him or somebody else, somebody would have heard it. >> someone potentially heard it because they came out and he said he seen them. >> right? >> he said he seen at least one person. >> right. he, the defendant, is claiming it was him. you can't say whether it was him or not, can you? >> i'm sorry, i don't understand the question. >> you can't say it was mr. zimmerman who was screaming for help. >> i can't say that, no. >> thank you, ma'am. >> just so we're clear, i had you talk about whether or not mr. zimmerman had ill will, hatred, spite, and the other ones that are necessary for second-degree murder, i wasn't asking you to speculate. i want to be very clear. what i asked you for was whether or not you had any evidence. you know what evidence, of course, is. >> yes. >> so did you have any evidence to support a contention that mr. zimmerman acted in your presence
in such a way you thought he had ill will? >> and that's what i thought you asked me. >> i just want to clear it up. >> no, he didn't evidence any of that. >> no spite, no hatred, no animosity. >> if he had it, he didn't show it. >> so the only evidence you would be able to present on that issue, not your speculation, but just the evidence, would be that you didn't see any. >> i didn't see him act out anything. >> and i think you said that if you were in a shooting situation, right, even where you just have to draw your service revolver, you would not reholster it until you were safe. is that accurate? >> i would reholster it once i believed the threat was no longer. >> all right. like maybe when another officer came up with a flashlight and you knew you had backup. at that point would you feel more comfortable putting it away? >> absolutely. >> when another witness came up and when you realized that the person who you just had to shoot
was staying face down. would that give you good cause to believe it was now safe to reholster your weapon? >> yes. >> okay. nothing further. thank you. >> any redirect? >> ill will hatred. what you're saying at the time you were interviewing him, he was not showing ill will or hatred, correct? >> right. >> okay. because he, mr. zimmerman, wouldn't you agree, was trying to convince you he hadn't done anything wrong, right? >> i asked him to tell me what happened, and he -- yes. >> thank you. >> thank you. may officer singleton be excused? >> yes, your honor. >> let's bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom and criminal defense attorney john burress. lisa, we have detective doris singleton. interesting dynamic with the prosecution and how they've chosen to come after this witness that they called to the stand specifically on speculation and her assessment in taking george zimmerman's account of what happened that
night. >> this is yet another witness that seems more comfortable answering questions from the defense than from the prosecution. and this police detective had to say that despite her lengthy interview that night of george zimmerm zimmerman, he seemed to have no ill will or hatred, and she tells a very interesting story where she says zimmerman noticed a silver cross around her neck. he asked her if she was catholic. she said no, i'm christian, why? he said because don't catholics think that killing is wrong under all circumstances? she said to him, seemingly comforting him, i don't think that's what god meant. i don't think that god meant you couldn't save your own life. it seems as though at least that evening she believed that he had acted in self-defense. >> and i don't want to -- since the word of the day is speculate here, but it seemed bernie was a bit agitated at some point when he was asking at least more questions regarding her assessment and pressing her on this notion that she may be
speculating. she interviewed george zimmerman within an hour and a half of what they call the event obviously, we know that's the killing of trayvon martin. but he seemed to press her a little hard there. >> well, that's right. and look, she doesn't know what was in his mind. she doesn't know if he was acting. but it was appropriate for her to answer the questions about whether there was any evidence of animosity or ill will. she didn't see it. remember, the prosecution has to prove this was a depraved-mind killing to get that second-degree murder conviction. >> john, let me bring you in. she also testifies that george zimmerman did not know trayvon martin was dead. again, this is an hour and a half after the shooting. i wondered, then, wouldn't he have asked the emt, the police officers, aren't you curious of the conclusion once you've fired a weapon on someone? >> well, i would think so. i mean, given the circumstances of the shot that was directly in the body, you would think he would have asked that question. on the other hand, i don't know that one could hold that against him necessarily so. at the end of the day, it's the
circumstances that are fast moving and he's now in police custody and hasn't been given any information. you know, i think unfortunately for the prosecution, they're placed in an odd situation by themselves because they used to be on the side where the police are very supportive. this lady was not supportive of the prosecution's point of view. i think it was very difficult for him to have to go back and try to clarify and cross examine her in ways that he was most uncomfortable with because she really was -- >> sorry to interrupt you, but this is detective chris serrino. he's the officer who first recommended manslaughter charges against george zimmerman. quickly, lisa, as he explains his background, if this turns into a situation where this is an adversarial moment between the prosecution and somebody that's supposed to be a key witness for them, what are we to think here? >> right. we expect this witness to be supportive of the prosecution because he believed that zimmerman was a problem and
should be charged. it's the prosecutor's decision what charges to bring. >> all right. let's listen in. thank you, both. >> when you arrived there, were there officers already present? >> yes, sir, there were. >> okay. was the body of the person later identified to you as trayvon benjamin martin still at the scene, sir? >> yes, he was. >> was the person who shot trayvon martin, george zimmerman, still at the scene when you arrived? >> no, he was not. >> did you remain at the scene and later go to the sanford police department? >> yes, sir. >> okay. >> at the scene, did you speak to officers there? >> yes, sir, i did. >> did you also meet with witnesses? >> yes, sir, i did. >> when you first arrived, had the body of the victim trayvon martin been identified at that point? >> no, sir, he had not. >> okay. and at that time, you didn't know who he was or whether he even lived in that area, is that correct?
>> no, sir, we didn't know. >> were attempts made to identify him at the scene, sir? >> yes, they were. >> and can you briefly tell us how that was done, sir? >> by facial recognition of officers that were there, by canvassing the area for potential people that may have known who he was. we ultimately were able to obtain a device called a life scan device. we checked his fingerprints to see if they were on file in our database. we had no results. >> so everything was negative in terms of being able to identify the person you now know as trayvon benjamin martin? >> yes, sir. all attempts were negative. >> later did you further check at the sanford police department, and his name did not appear in your all records, is that correct? >> yes, sir, i did. >> now, later that evening, did you end up going to the sanford police department? >> yes, i did. >> okay. and do you recall exactly what time you got there? >> it was around midnight.
>> okay. when you came into the sanford police department, did you end up having contact with the person now known to you as george zimmerman? >> yes, i did. >> could you please identify him by stating where he is seated and the clothing he wears? >> at the defense table in a gray suit. >> your honor, let the record reflect the witness identified the defendant. >> the record will so reflect. >> when you came into contact with george zimmerman, were you aware he had already been interviewed by investigator doris singleton? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and did you have a very brief interview with him right after midnight around 12:05 or so a.m.? >> yes, i did. >> okay. and before i play that, was that
interview recorded in terms of an audio recording? >> yes, sir, it was. >> okay. go ahead. for purpose of the record, your honor, i believe we need to introduce that into evidence as the next exhibit. it's going to be number 179. it's previously been shown to defense counsel and they have no objection. >> that's correct, your honor. >> okay, state's exhibit 179. >> this is investigator serino from the sanford police department. today's date is monday, february the 27th. it's now 12:05 a.m. i'm located at the sanford police department. persons in the room with george zimmerman, correct? >> yes, sir. >> your date of birth? >> 10/5.
>> highest education. >> associates. >> you've been read your rights, correct? >> yes, sir. >> you understand you're not quite free to go because you're in the process? >> yes. >> i'm going to ask quick questions. this photograph i'm showing you here, do you recognize that face? >> no, sir. >> this is the person you had the incident with today? >> yes, sir. >> that's going to be important for you to understand. i don't know who he is. real briefly, i'm going to tell you what i got. you were going to the store? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and you saw somebody who you felt to be suspicious. >> yes, sir. >> this suspicious person, because of the break-ins in the neighborhood, you decided to call 911? >> no, sir. nonemergency. >> you called the nonemergency line? >> yes, sir. >> okay. you reported a suspicious
person. >> yes, sir. >> you followed this person? >> yes, sir. >> you lost visual on this person? >> yes, sir. >> where did this whole thing start at? >> retreat view circle in the -- >> okay. tomorrow morning in daylight hours -- do you work? >> yes, sir. >> where? >> digital -- >> when do you get off work? >> 5:00 p.m. >> okay. when do you start working? >> 9:00 a.m. >> okay. 5:00 p.m. tomorrow when you get off work, can you call me? >> yes, sir. >> so we can walk through the scene entirely. >> i have class tomorrow. >> okay. [ inaudible ] >> can you get a note? who's your instructor? what are you taking? >> continuing my bachelor's. >> in criminal science? u ucf partnership. what time does class start? >> 6:30. >> we can probably do this in half an hour. i want to the retrace your path and exactly what happened. i want to videotape this.
the difference between statutes and homicide, you're familiar with what we're talking about here, right? okay. you follow this person. you lose sight of this person. you're walking in the darkness out there. you have a flashlight? >> it was dead. i had one, but it was dead. >> you had to hit it a couple times. it's on right now. >> oh, it is. >> it's probably like the one i have. you have to smack it around a couple times. this person jumped you from somewhere? >> yes, sir. >> from the darkness? >> yes, sir. >> didn't say anything to you? >> yes, sir. >> what did he say to you? >> when he came up to me, he said, you got a problem? i said no. i went to reach for my phone, to find my phone to call 911 instead of nonemergency. then he punched me -- he said, you have a problem and then punched me in the face. >> okay, so you have a problem now. he punched and you fell? >> yes, sir. >> and you got injuries. your face or your chest? >> in my face. my head.
i mean, all over my head. >> you're cleaned up already because officer smith said you were pretty much battered. >> yes, sir. >> okay. he mounted you basically? >> yes, sir. >> and he started to beat up on you? >> yes, sir. >> at what point did you draw your weapon? >> after he hit my head against the concrete several times. >> okay. >> i yelled out for help, and the he tried to smother my mouth. >> who yelled for help? >> i did. >> and he did what? >> smothered my mouth and my nose. >> okay. >> and when he did that, i tried to slide out and squirm. i realized my shirt came up. i felt him slide his hand towards my right side. i don't know if -- >> it's an automatic? >> yes. >> what kind of ammunition?
>> i think it was hollow point. >> okay. what happened then? >> i shot him. >> it was unholstered entirely? you shot him? >> yes, sir. >> one time? >> one time. >> when you shot him, what happened? >> he kind of sat up and said, you got me. >> okay. >> so i -- i don't remember if i pushed him or he fell, but somehow i got out from under him, and when he was hitting me, i don't know what he was hitting me with. i thought he had something in his hands. so i grabbed his hands when i was on top of him and spread his hands away from his body because he was still talking. i was on top of him. that's when somebody came and they had a flashlight too. i thought it was a police officer, so i got off of him. >> what was he saying when he was talking to you? >> i don't know. after you got me, i don't remember. >> okay. >> if you -- you're going to have anxiety over this and
nightmares and everything. you're probably going to have a hard time. i'm here for that. that's all i can give you between now and until tomorrow. i can get you other kinds of help afterwards, but you got to get home and get some rest. is there anything else you want to add? in your mind's eye, this person was commit nothing good over there. you had good faith to see what he was doing. he jumped you, he attacked you, okay. he reached for your gun, you discharged. you only shot once. police arrived, you surrendered, and here you are. >> he told me he was going to kill me. >> exactly. [ inaudible ] >> investigator serino -- may i approach the witness, your honor? >> yes, you may.
>> investigator, serino, you mentioned in the interview with the defendant that you showed him a photograph. would this have been the photograph you showed him? >> i believe so, sir. >> your honor, if i may publish that to the jury. >> yes, you may. >> investigator serino, when you showed him this photograph, the
defendant told you he didn't know the person, correct? >> that's correct, sir. >> when you spoke to him -- i want to show you some photographs. i'll probably need help. no, no, no. i'm sorry. do you see in front of you state's exhibit 64? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and is this the condition that you observed the defendant, mr.
zimmerman, when you spoke to him, sir? >> yes, it is. >> okay. thank you, your honor. i don't think i need the lights anymore. my question is, when you spoke to him, did you have any problems understanding him? >> no, sir, i did not. >> did he have any problems understanding you, sir? >> no, sir. >> did you threaten him in any way to get him to make a statement? >> no, sir. >> did you make him any promise to get him to make a statement? >> no. >> your observations of the defendant that evening, did you consider those injuries to be minor, major, or what? >> minor. >> you mentioned you made arrangements in that recording as reflected to meet with him later the next -- i guess it would have been the morning of the 27th, later that evening, is that correct?
>> yes, sir. >> now, later that morning before you made contact with the defendant, did you become aware of a missing persons report that turned out to be trayvon martin? >> yes, sir, i did. >> and did you respond back to the scene and go to 2631 retreat view circle where brandy green lived and where trayvon martin was staying that weekend? >> yes, i did. >> okay. your honor, may i approach the witness again? >> yes, you may. >> investigator serino, when you came into contact with brandy green, and i believe also tracy martin, would that have been at
2631? >> yes, sir. >> is that where you understood mr. martin, trayvon martin was staying the day he got killed? >> yes, he was. >> i want to make sure i get the right place. right here? >> the third -- yes, sir. >> did you end up showing tracy martin the photograph, and did he identify that person as his
son? >> yes, i did. >> sir, i want to draw your attention to february 27th, that same day. did you later come into contact with the defendant george zimmerman at the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes, sir, i did. >> okay. and were you present when the defendant was interviewed, specifically he was put in the a car with sergeant randy smith and you followed with investigator singleton and then later end up the defendant actually gets out of the vehicle and demonstrates to you or describes what he claims occurred? >> yes, sir. >> okay. have you reviewed that video? >> yes, i have. >> okay. for the record, your honor, it's state's exhibit 181. your honor, before we play it t we do have an instruction we request the court to read at that time. it's titled state's proposed jury instruction regarding ini
redaction. >> certain portions of the defendant's interview with the sanford police department investigators have been excised or redacted based on legal determinations made by the court. the parts excised or redacted are not relevant, and you are not to concern yourselves with why this occurred or what the content of any excise or redacted portions. thank you. >> and with the court's permission, may we publish that to the jury now?
2012, 1136. >> we're right here, right in front of this house. >> okay. right in front of 1460? >> yes, sir. >> and what was -- he was walking in between the buildings? >> he was walking like in the grassy area like up towards -- kind of between these two poles. like i said, it was rainy. he wasn't -- he was just leisurely looking at the house. like i said, my wife is -- i left for the grocery store. i just felt like something was off about him. i said -- and there's been a history of break-ins in that building. i called previously about this house. when the police arrived at this house when i called the first time, the windows were open and the door was unlocked. the police came and secured it so i said, you know what, it's better to just call and -- i kept driving. i passed him. he kept staring at me and staring around, looking around
to see who else was -- i don't know why. >> did he walk off from there or stop there? >> he stopped. he like looked around. that's why -- that's what threw me off. it's raining. i didn't understand why somebody would be just stopping in the rain, especially -- it wasn't like he was trying to run to get out of the rain and i had never seen him before. didn't look like he was exercising. >> where was he standing at when he stopped? >> right in front of 1460? >> in the grass? >> in the grassy area. >> like where the car is? >> yes, sir. >> you just -- >> i drove past him. i went to it the clubhouse on the right-hand side. >> and parked up there? >> yes, sir. >> and naturally he left -- he caught up to you up here or -- >> yes, i called the
nonemergency line. when i got through, i parked at the clubhouse. they asked me, you know, where i was and i told them the clubhouse. i think i gave them the address to the clubhouse. >> where did you park at? >> right up here next to that green truck. i don't think that truck was there, but i just pulled up. >> so you just pulled in here? >> yes, sir. >> and this is where you got out? >> no. this is where i was just stopped to call and then he walked past me. he kept looking at my car. still looking around at the houses and stuff. then the dispatcher said where did he go, what direction did he go? i said, i don't know, i lost -- because he cut down here and made a right. i guess it's twin trees lane. he made a right in there. they said, what direction did he go? i said, i don't know i can't see him. they said, can you get to somewhere where you can see him? i said, i can, so i backed out.
>> all right. >> i made this right here. a left here. and i parked right about where that sign is in the yard. >> in front of the ford truck? >> yes. and i saw him standing -- right about here. i saw him walking back that way and cut through the back of the houses. he looked back and noticed he and cut back through the houses. i was still on the phone with nonemergency. then he came back and he started walking up towards the grass and came down and circled my car.
i told the operator that he was circling my car. i didn't hear if he said anything. >> right. >> but he had his hand in his waistband. i think i told the operator that. they said where are you? i could not remember the name of the street. i don't live on this street. retreat view circle goes in a circle. >> right. >> i said, i don't know. he goes, we need an address. i said, i don't know an address. i think i gave them my address. they said, give us directions to get to you. i said, if you tell the police to go straight at the clubhouse and make a left, my truck will be there. again, they asked me where he went, what direction he went in. i said, i don't know. then i thought to get out and look for a street sign. >> right. >> so i got out of my car, and i started walking. >> go ahead. >> oh.
i was still on the phone with nonemergency. i started walking. >> okay. >> down this way. because i didn't see a street sign here, but i knew if i went straight through, that that's retreat view circle and i could give him an address. he said give me the address of the house you're in front of. there's no address because this is the back of the houses. so i walked straight through here, and i didn't see him at all. i was walking and i was still on the phone with the nonemergency. >> okay. >> i got to about here and i had a flashlight with me.
the flashlight was dead, though. i looked around. i didn't see anybody. i told nonemergency -- i said, you know what, he's gone, he's not even here. >> right. >> so i still thought i could use their address, so i walked all the way through. i actually walked all the way to the street, and i was going to give them this address, and they said, well, if he's not there, do you still want a police officer? i said, yes. they said, do you still want a police officer? i said, yes. they said, are you following him? oh, i'm sorry. back there they said, are you following him? i said, yes, because i was, you know, in the area. they said, we don't need you to do that. i said, okay. that's when i walked straight through here to get the address so that i could use the police
officer. they said -- i said, he's not here. they said, do you still want him to come? i said, yes. they said, where do you want him to come to? i said just tell him to meet me at my truck next to the clubhouse. i was parked right there. i'll meet him there. i started walking back. when i got to -- i passed here. i didn't see anything again. i was walking back to my truck. then when i got to right about here, he yelled from behind me to the side of me. he said, yo, you got a problem? i said, no, i don't have a problem, man. >> where was he at? >> he was about there, but he was walking towards me. >> okay. so he was coming from this direction here? >> yes, sir.
like i said, i was already past that, so i didn't see exactly where he came from, but he was about where you are. >> okay. >> i said, i don't have a problem. i went to grab my cell phone, but i had left it in a different pocket. i looked down at my pant pocket. he's like, you got a problem now? he was here and punched me in the face. >> right here? >> up around here. >> okay. >> to be honest with you, i don't remember exactly. >> that's fine. >> i think i stumbled, and i fell down. he pushed me down. somehow me got on top of me. >> on the grass or on the cement? >> it was more over towards here. i think i was trying to push him away from me. he got on top of me somewhere around here. that's when i started screaming for help. i started screaming help, help,
as loud as i could. then is when he grabbed -- oh, i tried to sit up. that's when he grabbed me by the head and tried y ed sto slam my down. my body was on the grass. my head was on the cement. >> [ inaudible ]. >> yes, sir. that's as best as i could feel through my jacket. he just kept slamming and slamming. i kept yelling, help, help. >> he only had a small portion of my head on the concrete, so i tried to squirm off the concrete. en