tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 1, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
george zimmerman tells his story and republicans bash hillary as too old. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. and in a moment, republicans attack hillary for being just too darn old to be president. well, isn't that special. and just so you know what they think of women's judgment generally, look what they're up to down in texas. but first on "hardball," an update on the biggest trial in the country can, who is winning the trial, and what does the prosecution want the jury to believe that what happened in those critical moments when trayvon martin came face-to-face with george zimmerman. is the prosecution making its case? is it convincing the jury that what it said happened that night did, are its witnesses delivering on their promise? are they meeting that standard of beyond a reasonable doubt?
let's get to it. let's get to it with former u.s. attorney zachary carter. mr. carter, thank you for join us. i thought we were going to go to kerry sanders, but let's go to you first. what is significant to you watching this trial? >> listening to the witness testify that as the investigator who recorded or took the initial statement from mr. zimmerman, i think the thing that is significant at least to me is that it raises questions about whether or not as some have speculated that mr. zimmerman would ever need to take the stand. because he gives a fairly complete statement, and he didn't suffer the disadvantage of being cross-examined. >> all right. >> so i think that one challenge for the prosecution is going to be to put in for the remainder of this trial a sufficiently compelling case that it raises serious questions about the
credibility of the statements that were reported to have been given by mr. zimmerman. >> can they do that effectively without getting a chance at him personally? >> that's correct. >> do you believe they could ever duplicate the -- well, the realism of having zimmerman on the stand when they begin to question the facts as he presented them? >> well, they won't get a shot at confronting him directly. >> right. >> with any inconsistencies in his testimony. but that's okay, because no matter how well he delivers his statements, if they don't line up with documentary evidence, with other -- with forensic evidence, with other witness accounts, with the time sequences in the 911 tapes and the cell phone communication records, then he will be as readily impeached as if he were
being cross-examined. >> okay. look at this. for the first time in the trial today, the jury heard audio of george zimmerman describing as you say, sir, the incident to police moments after it actually happened. let's listen. >> i just remember i couldn't breathe, and then he still kept trying to hit my head against the pavement or -- i don't know if there was a sign or what it was. so i just -- when i slid, my jacket and my shirt came up. and when he said "you're going to die tonight", i felt his hand go down on my side. and i thought he was going for my firearm. so i grabbed it immediately. and as he bang mid head again, i just pulled out my firearm and shot him. >> okay. >> well, let me ask you about the two things in credibility what ends up perhaps him testifying. one, how do you scream out in the way that proscribed as screaming out if you believe it
was his voice there on the tape everybody was listening to, somebody had a hand over his mouth and nose. i guess that's a question. >> that's certainly one question. and another is going to be how credible are the accounts of witnesses who observed mr. zimmerman and his demeanor immediately following the incident right at the scene, because it's one thing to recount what you claim happened to you hours later. but it's another thing to be observed immediately following the account and following the encounter. so did he behave immediately after this incident in the way you would expect someone who would have suffered the trauma of having a near death experience, or as some witnesses have apparently recounted, was he calm and composed in a way
that you might not expect for someone who claims to have been the subject of a pretty vicious assault that he claims justified his drawing a firearm and firing it? >> yeah, well, the jury heard audio from zimmerman that night talking to detective doris single top about his injuries. let's listen to that conversation. this is the night of. >> how is your head? >> i can't feel it. >> okay. and who told you -- you said when i came in here, they said -- who told you you broke your nose? who told you that? okay. did you need to go to the hospital? >> i don't know. they said i didn't. but i don't know. >> is this bump -- i can't tell what is normal for you. can you see? >> i can't. >> like right here, does this right here, does that look like a contusion there of some sort or is that the normal shape of your head?
>> no, that's not normal. >> because it looks swollen there. >> kerry sanders joining us, joining zachary carter, the former u.s. attorney down there from eastern new york, rather. let me ask you, kerry, about the trial today. last week was not a great week apparently for the prosecution. this week, how is it shaping up? >> well, i think what you're seeing is perhaps the only opportunity the jury will hear from george zimmerman. he likely, according to his attorneys, will not take the stand. they're yet to fully decide. but with this videotape of him reenacting, and with this interview with detective serino, they're hearing from him. they've also had the opportunity to look at his written report. and in a written report that he for pages, he sounds like a cop. he is using cop-type language. so all of this is helping shape a little bit of who george zimmerman is for the jurors. i must note that in the sit-down with chris serino, the detective, the jurors in the courtroom were straining to hear. in fact, i think we hear it more
on television than you can hear in the courtroom. >> a key piece of evidence in this case the day after the incident itself, the killing of trayvon martin as zimmerman reenacted his version of events with police on tape. let's take a look at part of that reenactment by the defendant. >> when i got to right about here, he yelled from behind me, to the side of me. he said, yo, you got a problem? and i turned around and i said, no i don't have a problem, man. >> where is he at? >> he was about there, but he was walking towards me. >> this direction here? >> yes, sir. like i said, i was already past that. so i didn't see exactly where he came from. but he was about where you are. >> okay. i said i didn't have a problem. i left it in a different pocket.
i looked down in my pant pocket. and he said you got a problem now. and then he was here, and he punched me in the face. >> well, let's go. what about the -- we just saw the back of his head there. he had some kind of preparation on the back of his head, some indication of something being treated back there. is this case going to ride -- let me go back to mr. carter. is this case going to ride on the degree of the severity of those wounds, and if they don't look egregious and life-threatening, the jury will say it wasn't justified, no matter what he says about his mental condition, he made the wrong decision? or does it depend on whether he thought he was being -- well, there is what you can see what amounts to the evidence of the injury to the back of his head. to what degree is it his judgment that is being judged, whether he thought he was in danger of grievous injury or whether he really was in danger of grievous injury? >> i think the jury is likely to make its decision based on what is objectively reasonable. first of all, i think that is what the jury will be instructed
by the court. but also, just as a matter of common sense and the way that people evaluate facts and circumstances and make decisions about in judging people's conduct. i think that they're going to look at the totality of the circumstances, including the level of his injuries and make a decision whether or not -- that he was in fear of imminent extraordinarily serious physical injury or death sufficient to justify his using a firearm to defend himself. even though there are pictures of small bandages on those -- those wounds. as i understand it, there were no sutures that were required to close those wounds nor not with standing his claim that he had
his head pounded against the sidewalk several times, were there any of the classic symptoms of -- of a concussion, a brief loss of consciousness, nausea, the kinds of things that i think that in the common experience of jurors are generally symptoms of severe head injury. >> well, again, you said it comes back to a subjective assess. and kerry, i want to go to you on this. it seems to me how do you judge how many times you want your head pounded into the sidewalk if it's actually the case? if it actually happened? the younger fellow is pushing his head into the sidewalk, it looks to me, i don't know whether you can take five pounds into the sidewalk or 15, i don't know the clinical potential. but at some stage you say i don't want this to go on anymore. i mean, i'm just trying to use my common sense here. >> and chris, one of the questions here, did it actually happen in the sidewalk?
because the sidewalk didn't actually show blood stains. >> of course. >> so one of the things i think you should point out here is the defense is indicated in the jury selection about the potential here for what is known as stand your ground. and in florida, it's a unique law. in most states we have what is known as the castle doctrine. your home is your castle. somebody comes into your house. if you have a weapon, you can pro take yourself. the stand your ground takes it outside of your home, out into a situation potentially like this where george zimmerman, his story is he was acting in self-defense. he felt threatened. and there is only one witness now to that. yes, there is john good, who is somewhat of an eyewitness there are other somewhat witnesses to what happened. but nobody witnessed the actual instigation of the fight or the firing of the weapon. >> sure. that's what we're trying to find out. >> exactly. >> let me go back to mr. carter. mr. carter. >> yes. >> stand your ground seems to be irrelevant at this point in terms of the law. if it's all a question whether the facts are right. if he was on the ground and the other martin was on top of him, and he couldn't move, and he was
having his head pounded, if that is all true, he didn't have a chance. in this argument he could have fled or didn't, i'm asking you. you're the expert sir. >> first of all, the florida law is a double-edged sword. trayvon martin had a right to stand his ground as well. >> yeah. >> and so the question becomes whether or not zimmerman behaved in a way, whether the evidence establishes that he behaved in a way that number one, he voluntarily put himself in a situation where a connotation -- >> i can tell you what they're going to say in the defense. >> and whether or not trayvon martin perceived that he was in a position where he might have to defend himself. because as he apparently reported to his friend during -- who was on -- in cell phone communication with him in realtime, he was concerned that
this suspicious looking character was following him and gave him cause for concern for his safety. >> that's a good point. very good point. thank you so much, zachary carter, former prosecutor. and thank you kerry sanders with nbc news. coming up, the new assault on hillary clinton. you won't believe this. republicans now are saying she is too old to be president. it's not that she is not qualified. it's not that she hasn't been successful. she is too old to be president. they're actually saying this. the big shots now in the party. is this going to be a boomerang for the party that already has a problem with young people anyway? by the way, she is eight months younger than ronald reagan was or would be at the time she were inaugurated. also, abortion politics. republican state legislators in ohio, texas, and kansas are moving sweeping anti-abortion legislation. basically, they're getting rid of all the clinics, in effect, so you can't have an abortion no matter what the constitution says. plus, david boies wants to
president obama is still in africa. so is his predecessor, george w. bush. the two american presidents plan to meet tomorrow in dar es salaam, the capital of tanzania. together they'll lay a wreath to commemorate the 1998 bombing of our embassy there. president obama announced a $7 million initiative to bring electrical power to some of africa's poorest countries. the program also includes more than $9 billion in private sector investments to help modernize the african continent. we'll be right back. look at 'em.
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when you think about youth appeal in politics, the first thing that pops into mind isn't usually the republican party. there is something about a party that officially supports even now a constitutional ban on all gay marriage and still has national candidates who deny there is such a thing as climate change. it seems to turn off young people especially, don't you think? but "the new york times" as jonathan martin reported just this weekend, republican party leaders think it's a strong message to run on in 2016, if the democrats nominate hillary rodham clinton. quote, republican strategist and presidential hopefuls in ways subtle and overt are eager to focus the spotlight on, catch this, mrs. clinton's age. despite her enduring popularity, a formidable fundraising network and near unanimous support from the democratic party, mrs. clinton, republican leaders believe, is vulnerable, appearing to be a has-been. here is how karl rove himself puts it. quote, perhaps in the democratic primary and general election there is certainly going to be an argument that the time has come for change of leadership. it's certainly going to be compelling.
what is karl rove know about the democratic primary season? is he right or is the republicans right? is attacking hillary's age really the way to beat the most admired woman in the country? donna edwards, democratic representative from maryland, and michael tomasky. i'm going to start with the congresswoman, because you face the voters all the time. as the age issue come up among your constituents for hillary? she is actually -- we figured it out. we did our homework here, the producers. eight months younger than ronald reagan was and would be, eight months younger than him if she got the election, she won. >> case in point, it doesn't come up. i mean, here is republicans i think are making a really huge mistake. they can't win on policy. they tried it on ben gaza zip. they tried sexism for two decades. and now they're on to age. the problem is that the american public are smarter than that, especially women voters across the age spectrum really like hillary clinton. so they better get with it and come up with some policies that are not old instead of talking
about hillary clinton's age. >> yeah. michael, i'm thinking before we get into my more details about mitch mcconnell inevitably gets involved in these kinds of dirt ball stories. >> right. >> it seems to me we've had young people who really liked ronald reagan. >> yeah. >> he was kind of a cowboy hero. i meant it in the best way. new conservatism and all that, tough on the russians, got a man of action and that sort of thing. they liked him the way young people like tony bennett. they don't like all the young stars, they like older stars. >> sure, i think she absolutely. i wrote this. if you think about it, chris, there are women, like a 23, 25-year-old woman today, she grew up, the first first lady she ever knew in her life was hillary clinton. that was the model who the first lady was. the first working first lady, the first feminist first lady. those women now are in this young voting cohort. they're just going to vote for the first, second time. they've been attached to hillary clinton for a long, long time. so i think she has a lot of young admirers that karl rove
doesn't quite understand. >> if the democrats are smart, they will wait for this attack to come. let them come charging with this old person charge, and then just bring out hillary clinton speaking to her college graduation class at wellesley, where she gave this most amazingly let's say fresh, militant, but yet stark kind of bold speech for a young woman to make back then when she graduated and say this is who you're voting for here, someone who is like your generation here at her best. and look what she has done since. >> that's right. the fact is that it isn't just the 23 and 25-year-olds who are coming of age, but it's women who are of my generation, just under hillary clinton who grew up admiring her because she is professional and she is smart and she is talented and she stands on her own. so i think across the age spectrum, they can bring this attack if they want. it's going nowhere fast. >> well, here is mitch mcconnell. he is used to this line of attack. he used it during his speech at
the cpac convention this year. he told the crowd. let's let him do it. here he is. >> don't tell me democrats are the party of the future when their presidential ticket for 2016 is shaping up to look like a rerun of the golden girls. >> what a satisfied smile he gives you with that. the golden girls. >> except betty white is the most popular entertainer across the country, across the ages. and so, again, come with that. >> yeah, i know. i just think the golden girls is pretty risky behavior here, because first of all, you know what old people do? they vote. and guess who lives longer than men? women. they sit around, and they have plenty of time if they're retired, and they talk about this stuff. you think anybody is not going to know what they said about hillary being too old? >> of course. mcconnell's crack is exactly what the republicans do all the time with her and in these kinds of situations. they overplay it. his joke i'm sure is really funny to everyone on the right
wing base, but to everybody outside the right wing base, which is 75% of the country, it's not so funny. whoever the republican candidate is, if she runs and gets the nomination, she is going to be the candidate up there, as you were saying at the intro, she is going to be defending climate change, defending immigration, same-sex marriage, defending all the positions that young people support. and the republican candidate is going to be the one opposing all or most of them. >> my experience is she has a wicked counterpunch too. donna, congresswoman, thank you so much for coming on. >> thank you. >> and i'm as old as hillary, a bit older. thank you so much, donna edwards of maryland, and michael tomasky, thanks for joining us. up next, abortion politics related to women, of course. republicans are pushing strict new laws against abortion across the country, basically knocking any chance to get an abortion out in texas. in you live in texas, pay attention to what is coming next. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ female announcer ] made just a little sweeter...
these are matters of personal liberty. in texas we hold very dear to intrusions against our personal liberty. we fight very hard against that. and we will fight as we begin the session again on monday. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was state -- well, texas state senator wendy davis, the single mother democrat from ft. worth who became a national icon last week thanks to a ten-hour filibuster, all by herself, by the way, blocking an anti-abortion bill in the texas state senate. if passed, that bill would have closed nearly every abortion clinic in the state. we figure it would have gone from 40 clinics down to five. that's a big state for just five clinics. as you heard by the way her say in that clip, round two of the battle begins today. governor rick perry has called a special session of the texas legislature to start today. perry's message is clear, this bill will pass. while texas has taken center stage in the battle for women's reproductive rights, it's not the only state where women are fighting their local legislatures.
in ohio, republican governor john kasich signed into law last night, last night, a series of sweeping anti-abortion measures as part of the state's budget act. the act contains provisions that force women to undergo ultrasounds. it cuts funding for planned parenthood. it limits women's access to hospitals and rape clinics. in kansas, a bill that passed in april which declares that life begins at fertilization is meeting resistance obviously in the courts because it disagrees with roe v. wade. on friday, two minor provisions of that law were struck down, including one which required abortion providers to post statements on their websites, declaring that the state's declarations about abortions were scientifically accurate. the meat of the bill remains in the books. anyway, what does the fight in texas mean for those states and all the states? what does it say about women right now, their rights, their growing power in politics? wayne slater is the senior political writer for "the dallas morning news," and dawnna dukes is a democratic representative in the texas state legislature.
thank you both for joining us. i want to start with our old friend, wayne slater. what is this, the vision of political power where the men it seems are willing to basically kiss off, if you will, women voters, generally, certainly progressive women voters, probably independent women voters, and leaving themselves only with conservative men, perhaps middle of the road men, but probably not middle of the road women. it seems like they're cutting off a very definite minority of the vote in most states. >> well, there is no question about that. you know, texas is a republican state, and we can talk about that. >> for a while. >> for a while. but you basically look at what is happening here. and what republicans largely republicans and conservative men are doing is laying the groundwork, reinforcing the narrative the democrats want to push, and that is there is a war on women. and republicans are leading that war on women, not just on abortion, but on pay equity and on health care and other issues.
and so you see in texas, you see the message in ohio, in kansas, and elsewhere, something that clearly republicans will want to do. we were just talking about hillary clinton. you get hillary clinton as the nominee in 2016, and you not only have invigorated democrats, you invigorate these suburban republican women who typically have voted for moderate republicans who would like to do that. suddenly they see the war on women, they and young latina women especially. they grow in constituency. latinas are more liberal than their parents. so you see the makings of a new potential constituency in many places in the country, and that's good news for democrats. >> let me go to representative dukes. representative, i have to ask you about this, and give me an open answer. i don't know what the answer. are there many women in this country who would like to criminalize rape -- that certainly should be criminalized, criminalize abortion rights. say basically, there ought to be a law against women having an abortion.
you ought to be penalized for having one. in other words, carry to fruition, which is the way this anti-abortion thing is going. i don't see how they win if they get what they really want, which is to basically youth outlaw and it and criminalize it. i don't see how they win if they get what they want. it will be like the chinese curse. >> that's true. they're not many women, especially not independent thinking women who believe that a woman's right to choose should be denied to them. and republicans in the state of texas, and especially governor perry is losing this war on women. and the nation is seeing what they would receive if he ever made a presidential run. >> let's look at some other states. and i guess you're going to have to project what is going on down there. first of all, i better get our facts straight here.
it's not just that they're moving up the date from 24 months to 20 months in terms of banning late-term. i'm going start with you, wayne, but it seems like they're basically also saying unless a clinic replicates the facilities and standards, whatever, of options, surgical options or whatever hospital, it can't exist. so they're basically reducing from 40, i'm told, clinics in the state, down to about five for a huge state of texas, which means for most people in texas, they're going to be pretty awful far from the chance to have an abortion should they choose one. >> yeah. this bill in texas, however many clinics it would ultimately close and democrats say closing all by five in the state. but this bill is really aimed at shutting down abortion clinics and denying abortion rights to those people who want to have an abortion. there is a lot of talk among the republicans about women's health. and certainly some women, some conservative republican pro anti-abortion women believe that. that is a part of it. but this bill goes far beyond the 20 weeks, includes regulations on doctors, on clinics, and on taking the abortion pill that would effectively restrict substantially the right of women to have abortions.
and that's why the fight really is so big. >> when i think about the cases of casey and webster, i don't see how this possibly could pass must were the supreme court ruling on roe v. wade. it's certainly creating an undue burned by basically getting rid of clinics. if you can't get an abortion, your right to an abortion to me is unrealistic, and it's being denied. thank you dallas morning news reporter wayne slater and texas state representative dawnna dukes. up next, the latest attempt to undo the president's politics.
welcome back to "hardball." it appears senator mr. clinton mitch mcconnell's obsession with destroying president obama and obama care knows no bounds. now he'll even take on the nfl. here is how it happened. one week ago, hs secretary kathleen sebelius said pro athletes could help publicize the enrollment period for the affordable care act in fact was actively enthusiastically engaged because they see health promotion as one of the things that is good for them and good for the country. makes sense, right? that was all mitch mcconnell
needed to hear. last thursday he cowrote a letter to the nfl commissioner registering his extreme ire. given the unpopularity of this bill -- actually it's a law, it's difficult to understand why an organization like yours would risk damaging its apolitical brand by lending its name to this promotion. notice the wording. mcconnell's wording of the unpopularity of this bill, and nfl balks. it's a baseball term at supporting health law after gop senator sends warning from the gop spokesman who said of their government, we never made any commitment or discussed any details. today senator mcconnell has secretary of state allison lundgren grimes. she is apparently a strong candidate. joining me from mother jones magazine, that's the great david corn. and of course associate editor
and columnist from the hill neighbor, the great a.b. stoddard. i think mcconnell has really been a louse about some of this stuff. we have a constitution. we have a democracy. it's not fragile, but it could be improved in terms of public support. we had election from president. me he immediately starts to carve this guy. make sure this guy doesn't last, make sure he doesn't become jackie robinson. let's screw him a little. let's undercut him. he said. so he went out to do it. and now he said we have the law of the land which took years. teddy kennedy, franklin roosevelt, truman, finally gets passed. it's getting to be like middle east politics. you lose an election and claim the other side stole it. when you get power, you hang them. it's getting like that in this country. >> it never stops. and we're going have a big fight over the health care law over the next few months as the enrollment period begins, and you see states opting out more, causing the feds to come in.
>> why do they do that? way want to screw it up and want chaos? >> this is the big picture. i mean chaos is a good word to use. it's like the joker in the batman movie. the republicans meta message is that government doesn't work. you can't use government to improve the economy. >> it's meta message? >> meta. >> i'm learning these things. a little older. >> it's their big message, okay? >> we need those words? do we need to say those words just to show off the younger reader? >> the older one. but their crusade is to show that government doesn't work. and that means they can say we muck things up, and they don't mind being blamed. and the health care -- >> because every time the government fatalities, republicans win. >> yes. and so they're going to keep trying to do this with the health care law again and again and again in the coming months. >> let me ask you this. theory, it may not be the right theory. people watching can make up their minds. i think over time, not all social democracy is good. i'm not saying the government should do everything there are certain things it definitely
shouldn't be doing like creating businesses. but whenever it's something along the safety net lines like social security, medicare, they have become very popular over time. i think the republican party is petrified the people will say, you know, it's about time they did this health care thing, and i'm glad we visit, because i don't want 40 million people sitting in the emergency room. >> well, right now there is a lot of people in this country either unaware of what the law is going to do for them, unaware of the exchanges that are going to be set up to interest self-insured, and -- or just terrified of this. the insured are terrified. premiums are going up double and triple, "the wall street journal" today. >> why are they going up? >> because they're covering the sick. if president obama and his team do not succeed in bringing the young and healthy into the groups, in to these exchanges, we're all going to pay more because we're accepting the sick now into these pools. >> oh, the sick. not necessarily the poor. >> no, no. and the medicaid expansion is entirely another issue. a lot of states are refusing to expand medicaid. this right now is a largely
undefined anxiety that mitch mcconnell is going to be able to prey upon in his race for the senate. >> so he is going to openly discourage the young and the healthy from joining? >> no. he is going to say this is going to be a scary program. it's undefined. it's a sixth of the economy. government is going to screw it up, and it's going to be really expensive. it's a good issue, rung as any democrat. he is also going to talk about the war on coal. >> suppose you have parents that are good parents, they look out for you and they're in their 20s like our kids. and you say you got to get some health insurance. i don't care, you're riding a motorcycle, driving a car, i want you to have real health insurance. what is the kid's option given the coming of obama care? they're young and healthy. >> you can stay on your parents until 26. >> right. >> after that, there is no incentive. the penalty annually is $95, or 1% of your income. it's very low. >> so the conservatives would like you to pay the 95 bucks? that's why you're not trying the system? >> it's certainly the system. the fear of this white house is
that they won't be able to sign up enough young people and get the young in. >> point out that that's not even enforced, that $95 there. no criminal penalty. >> it's low enough. >> but this is the point here. mitch mcconnell also wants and the republicans at large want to scare people from joining the program. >> the healthy people. >> yeah. it's not going to work. you don't bother with this. it's -- we're going to repeal it anyway eventually one of these days. and, you know, mcconnell oddly enough is still under fire in kentucky for not being conservative enough. and the conservatives down there who claim that he voted to implement obama care by voting for a budget. so there he is now coming out against it to make sure he doesn't get a tea party challenge. >> so all he is worried about is the hard right beating him in a primary. >> more so i think than the new candidate. >> i learned a lot about what the real choices are. >> i think he is worried about the general election too.
>> a qualified candidate. a good one. the one he was afraid of. david corn, thank you. a.b. stoddard, thank you. up next, now that same-sex marriage 7is legal in california, they're going for the whole bit, 50 states. this is "hardball," the place for politics. you make a great team. it's been that way since the day you met. but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision,
or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. well, former congresswoman gabrielle giffords and her husband mark kelly, the astronaut, have kicked off their rights and responsibility tour. their goal is to promote ways to reduce gun violence, obviously, including passing universal
background checks. no coincidence that the tour started today in las vegas, the state where republican senator dean howard voted against background checks. the tour will also take them to alaska, north dakota, ohio, new hampshire, maine, and north carolina, all states where senators from either party or both voted against universal background checks. and we'll be right back.
>> we're walk. and that was one of a flood of weddings this weekend between same-sex couples following the big supreme court decision of last week. as gay rights supporters crowded the streets of new york and san francisco for the annual gay pride parades, the u.s. supreme court gave them another reason to celebrate when justice anthony kennedy, the decisive vote on the court, rejected a last-ditch effort by opponents of marriage equality to halt the granting of marriage licenses out in california. and the celebrations last week, amid them the pennsylvania first -- the openly gay member of the legislature there, brian sims. he is a state rep, was silenced by some of his conservative colleagues when he tried to speak on the historic nature of the court's landmark rulings. can you believe that? he couldn't even talk. daryl metcalfe, a run was one of the lawmakers who shut down sims, and here was his reason. >> i did not believe that as a member of that body that i should allow someone to make comments such as he was preparing to make that
ultimately were just open rebellion against what -- what the word of god has said, what god has said, and just open rebellion against god's law. >> pretty clearly stated there. anyways, state representative brian sims joins me now from harrisburg. he represents center city, philadelphia. ted, by the way, is also joining us. he's the attorney for the american foundation for equal rights. he also represented the plaintiffs in that prop 8 case. both gentlemen, thank you so much. representative sims, tell me what happened. you tried to talk about the historic nature of these court rulings and were doing in what we call in washington an executive session. not with a big audience or gallery. and even that, among just your colleagues, bothered people. >> yep, you said it best, chris. thanks for having me back on. you know, i had an opportunity at the end of the session on tuesday after the decisions had
come out to rise and address my colleagues and to talk about the historic nature of the supreme court cases and i let the speaker of the house know ahead of time that i was just going to talk about the cases. i wasn't going to talk about the fact that pennsylvania lacks all lgbt rights. now as an openly gay legislator, i wanted to reference the historic case. as you know, i got two, three words in before i was objected to. now, the procedural rule is called unanimous consent. when it's not unanimous, i don't have the consent to speak, and as soon as i started talking, representative metcalfe and another member of the house raised their hand to silence me. >> let's take a look at ralph reed, before i bring in ted. this idea that inevitably we're going to have 50 states going with marriage equality is a little premature right now. ralph reed knows the business on the evangelical side. let's watch him in action. >> i also don't buy so this sort
of notion of history this is sort of an inevitable train and this is where we're going to go. even after this decision, david, 70% of the american people live in states that define marriage as between a man and a woman. 32 of those states passed referendums with an average margin of 57% and in a cbs/"new york times" poll on june 9th, 60% of the american people and a majority of democrats said they want this resolved at the state level. >> well let me go to ted on that. by the way, ralph looked especially tired in that presentation. i don't know what was going on on "meet the press" yesterday. guy looked like he's been up for a month. does the right wing have a chance to stop this movement that seems to be historically unstoppable for equality? >> i don't think so, chris. the court's decision last week, justice kennedy's opinion for the court and defense of marriage act case laid out that discriminating against couples
demeans them, humiliates them and their children. directly in line with what the court had said in prior decisions. they're going to lead, i think, to marriage equality in this country. i think mr. reed is wrong. there's been a wave of public support, as you and your audience knows, in support of marriage equality and the wave just got a whole lot bigger last week with the supreme court's decision. to be here in california and see people getting married and the joy that is running through this state is remarkable. >> brian, do the members oppose you, won't let you speak up in harrisburg, even in executive session, do they know their time is running out, young people joining the election rolls certainly 18 to 25, up to 25 or 40 now, are clearly pro-equality? >> not only do they know it, chris, i think that's what this was about. let's be clear. marriage equality is going to become the law of the land no matter what. i think this is an issue of when
losers are losing they start to lash out. i think that they know that this is happening. they're doing their best to sort of stem this tide. resorting to, you know, to behavior like this and lashing out. i think that's what you do when you know you're on the wrong side of history and you're still fighting. >> all they can do is silence you for a couple months and you'll be back at it again. here you are on national television sort of overcoming their problem, aren't you? well -- >> you know, i don't get silenced all that easily. i come from a generation of people that don't tolerate bullies. who don't put up with bullies. guys like the chairman have been doing this their whole lives. this has been happening in the united states for 200 years. they're running into people like me, a generation of people who aren't going to put up for it, going to stand up for ourselves, our rights. >> as maggie thatcher would say, come back again and again. thank you, by the way, state representative brian sims, and ted, congratulations, sir, for being part of that amazing odd couple of voice. anyway, we'll be right back after this.
let me finish tonight with this. i think the republicans are nastier than the democrats these days. i didn't think that was always true. i think in the old days of big city politics, an awful lot went on that wouldn't pass the smell test. today i think the democrats have become prudish about what they say about other side. meanwhile, republicans are downright ruthless. mitch mcconnell dumps on election results as if he were a politician? some wild third world country where elections can be dismissed
as if they never happened, where the loser claims it was stolen, always calls other side corrupts and hangs the other leader right after getting into power, himself. mcconnell acted like obama didn't win the 2008 election fairly. right from the start he called geronimo, let's kill the presidency in its crib, make sure this guy doesn't become a hero. now he's acting as if obama isn't the law of the land, obama care isn't the law of the land. attacking the major sports leagues for helping the country make the transition to health care law options, ideally chaos, saying the nation doesn't want the coverage tens of millions of people will be getting for the first time. i suppose he'd prefer sending everybody back to the e.r. where they can wait like beggars until the republicans come up with their own health care plan. fat chance of that happening. millions of people waiting in the e.r. is their health care plan. more and more the republican party has begun to operate like parties in those countries where you never say the other side won, congratulate them and move on. no, he plays by the rules of perpetual insurrectionist who
deny the validity of election they didn't win, historic legislative battles they lost. the american people decided otherwise. barack obama has the title president of the united states. mitch mcconnell has the title, too, not quite so great. sore loser. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in" this was the creepy looking logo for a creepy sounding government surveillance program called total information awareness that was introduced shortly after 9/11. a program to basically record and analyze all digital information generated by u.s. citizens. after it became public, it was officially discontinued and our government never again used