tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 11, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PDT
it's not only how much we're eating but what we're eating as well. that's hardball for now, thanks for being with us, all in with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, tonight on "all in" the fear factor as the defense rests in the trial of george zimmerman, closing arguments set to begin tomorrow, already, bill o'reilly and others are raising the racial spector. the oil train, what went wrong to cause this truly horrific crash? and the river of fire that's killed at least 20 people and absolutely devastated a small town in quebec. plus, the tea party in georgia, is all for solar energy, and now they're going head to head with the koch brothers over it, this is reality trumping politics. i will have the national coordinator for the tea party patriots coming up.
we begin tonight with immigration reform on life support. and the surgeon in the e.r. trying to save the day is george w. bush. >> it's my honor to introduce the 43rd president of the united states of america. >> in the 1790s, an immigrant from ireland designed the white house. in the 1990s, 200 years later an immigrant from russia helped create the internet search engine google. >> former president george w. bush is front and center today, weighing in on immigration reform. >> that's something the former president has strictly avoided for years, talking about a hot political issue. >> i don't intend to get involved in the politics, i do hope there is a positive resolution to the debate. i hope during the debate we keep a benevolent spirit in mind. >> top republicans on capitol hill now predict comprehensive
immigration reform will die a slow month's long death in the house. >> they don't care what george bush has to say on this issue. most of them represent predominantly white districts. they're not thinking about the hispanic vote or minority vote. >> the senate bill is not going to pass in the house. >> we were betrayed by our colleagues in the senate. >> it's like a huge flood in the basement, you run down and start with a mop while the water's still pouring in? >> conservative organizations are running adds saying mr. bainer and republicans, why don't you do something about this. >> call congress and tell them to support the border surge. >> i guess i feel sorry for the speaker. >> we're going to have a discussion about this on july 10th. we're going to have a special conference and lay all of this out and listen to what the members have to say. >> what do you expect to hear at this meeting today? >> hopefully we're going to hear there won't be amnesty for illegal aliens. >> you can't separate the dream act kids from those who came across the border with a pack of contraband on their back. >> trusting barack obama is like
trusting my daughter with bill clinton, we just don't trust him. >> now, you can have fun with george w. bush, the republican party on this, on immigration reform, they should listen to this guy. they should listen to his message, which is, do not commit political suicide over immigration reform. but it seems as expected, the house republican caucus is intent on doing precisely that. after today's meeting, republican house leadership reaffirmed that rather than take up the flawed legislation rushed through the senate, house committees will continue their work on a step by step common sense approach. not listening to george w. bush is a big mistake for republicans. you can say a lot of very bad things about him. i certainly have said most of them. the fact remains the man knows how to win a national election something the rest of his party hasn't quite figured out. he's the only republican to win a majority of the popular vote in any of the last six
presidential elections. he did it once out of two tries, and he did it largely because of this number, which is how he performed on hispanic voters in 2004. far higher than any other republican in the two elections before or since. george w. bush entering into the immigration debate on the day the house republican caucus discusses the topic. a base that is now in full and absolute open revolt. with 11 million lives hanging in the balance. joining me now is steve case, co-founder of aol, now chairman and ceo of revolution. he's backed companies like living social and zipcar. and steve, i want to get your reaction to the statement that came out of the house republican caucus meeting today. it was not -- well, it was kind of a passive aggressive document.
maybe even openly aggressive. the american people want our borders secured our laws enforced. they don't trust a democratically controlled washington. we hate you. what was your response to that? >> i thought it was a decent statement. i think there's a lot -- i'm serious, i'm partially optimistic immigration reform will pass, it will pass in the next couple months, there's a desire in the house of the people's house to do it their own way and make sure different voices are heard and different issues are debated. the statement to me said they take the issue seriously, they're not trying to walk away from it, but they want to find their own path, find their own way. as long as they do that in a rapid kind of fashion, and fashion their own legislation, and then can conference that with the senate. i think we still can get comprehensive immigration reform passed. >> you have been very outspoken pushing for comprehensive immigration reform. you're part of a group of folks
that think this is incredibly important. i don't see how you can square the democratic red line which,there has to be a path to citizenship for these people, with what seems to be a prevailing opinion in the republican caucus, there doesn't have to be a path to citizenship. where is the business community on this? >> i think of nelson mandela's great quote, it's always impossible until it gets done, i think that's what the situation is. i bring a perspective to it. not just the texas community but the business community so broadly is supportive of this, we want to make sure we win the global battle. we're going to remain the most entrepreneurial economy. immigration is a key part. some in washington view immigration a problem we need to solve, i view it as an opportunity we need to seize and
now is the moment. >> you go and talk to republicans about this, and i imagine you have, because you -- i know you've worked with eric cantor on a previous piece of legislation, the jobs act 37 when you talk to them, what do they say to you. is this message persuasive? it doesn't seem like it's reaching the house republican caucus. >> it is. i'm not talking about a specific conversation with specific people, in general, there is a lot of republican support for doing whatever they can to focus on the economy, focus on innovations, that is why the legislation that eric cantor championed with the support of president obama passed a year ago, with broad bipartisan support. i think they do understand the importance of talent, the issues get more complicated because of the other issues around border security, path to citizenship. some of the guest worker programs, i think there's broad agreement, the right way to look at immigration is not just through the prism of politics, obviously, that's a focus, or the prism of security, how do you secure the border or prism of morality, what's the right
thing to do, the prism of economics, and the white house this morning released a report that i thought was veriful, laying the economy case for comprehensive immigration reform. tech communities is there, but also leaders in agricultural leaders, they all want to deal with this issue and recognize the law. they talk in washington for a decade about doing this. people in the community want action, and they want it now. >> there's a window for action, we're going do see how much influence the business community, it's going to be a test in the coming weeks and months. thanks very much. >> thank you. joining me now is robert costas. washington editor for the international review. and a reporter who's as plugged in with the republican caucus as i know. what is your view on the statement by boehner and folks that were in the meeting. >> i just got here from the capital, i feel the press gets a case of steve king fever.
there's a sense that because the right flank of the republican party is so vocal, they're dominating the debate, i tried to read between the lines. i heard this from speaker boehner. he wants to do this on immigration reform. and so i don't think they're ruling anything out. i don't think they're ruling out legalization. i think this is going to be a long process, but i won the say it's dead. >> that's interesting. steve just made the optimistic case, i've been making the case throughout. other people said i'm crazy. i have become less optimistic as i've seen boehner paint himself in a corner. i want you to look at this piece of tape from earlier today. raul, who is a republican, who is originally part of the group that was hammering out a house bill that was going to rival the senate. he walked from that bill. he is an exchange he had with my colleague, alex wagner, take a look. >> you have a bill that was put together by john mccain and lindsey graham and the u.s. chamber of commerce, and you're going to blame democrats?
>> yeah, if chuck schumer does not accept a solution from the house, if he says that 80% is not good enough for him, because he wants 100%, then it is his fault. >> okay. do republicans actually believe that they can kill this or walk away from it, and actually blame the democrats? have they convinced themselves that they are not going to bear the brunt of the wrath of a lot of angry people in this country if this thing dies? >> there's a real political reason to pass immigration reform, you've mentioned the statistic of president bush's 2004 margin, i think when you look at that exchange, with congressman labrador, you see republicans paralyzed by fear, that the administration and senate democrats are playing a political chess game, and this immigration reform package coming out of the senate, with 11 million people becoming new citizens is going to benefit the democrats long term. that really spooks a lot of republicans in the house, that's causing a lot of this undercurrent of descent. >> where is the pressure? you are well sourced with these
men and women, if i wanted to pressure the house republican caucus to get something that looks like the senate bill. let's just say crosses the this remember hold for the path to citizenship. >> i think they're trying to test the senate and administration right now by slow walking immigration reform. i would almost try to play the house's game. the house is trying to extend this process, see how far the administration has said democrats are willing to go, and get this to conference. the whole -- if you're really on the right or left, and you support immigration reform, if this can get to a conference committee, it has a chance, it has life, it has to get to that point. >> you get something out of that house, send it to conference and make them vote on that. thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, a good fox news audience is a fearful fox news audience, which must be why bill o'reilly and others keep raising the awful spector of racial
republicans in two states plowed ahead today with plans designed to shut down access to abortion. in north carolina, pat mccrory threatened to veto a bill moving through the state legislature. that is likely to force most of the state's abortion clinics to close their doors. within hours of that veto threat, republicans have tweaked the anti-abortion measure, insert it into an unrelated motorcycle safety bill. not making that up. and passed it through committee along party lines, of course. as demonstrators descended on dallas today in a statewide protest tour. a bill designed to shut down most of that state's abortion clinics moved one step closer to becoming law in texas. the state house gave the bill final approval today, it heads to the state senate where wendy davis was filibustered to defeat the special session. she won't be able to stop it this time around.
today the defense rested in the case of the trial of george zimmerman, who is charged with second degree murder in the killing of trayvon martin. the prosecution's closing argument will be tomorrow and the defense's will be friday. mr. zimmerman has pleaded not guilty claiming self-defense. we learned at day's end the defendant will not take the stand just a few hours before an
obligatory set of questions from the judge turned into a tense exchange. >> have you made a decision as to whether or not you want to testify? >> your honor, i object to -- >> overruled. have you made a decision as to whether or not you testify in this case? >> i object to that. >> year ruled, the court is entitled to hear whether mr. zimmerman intends to testify. mr. zimmerman, have you made a decision as to whether or not you want to testify in this case? >> no, not at this time. >> i object to the court inquiring to mr. zimmerman -- >> your objection is overruled. >> the trial truly entered its final act today including both sides use of a pliable foam dummy, while questioning a former law enforcement officer. he was called by the defense as an expert on the use of force. the final witness for the defense was george zimmerman,
sr. testifying that the screams on the tape were his son. another narrative has been developing. a right wing troupe about the spector of racial violence. here's part of bill o'reilly's talking points last night. >> african-americans come out as a top racist group. 31% of african-americans say their own race heads the list. the only thing the american press will embrace is the spector of oppression. the question in the zimmerman trial is now a racial deal rather than a justice deal. and if george zimmerman is acquitted by a jury of five white women and a hispanic lady, it will be animus. >> the headline, broward county
sheriff's office prepares zimmerman verdict riot plan. joining me now is director of african-american studies at the university of connecticut. thank you for being here. here's what frustrates me, what conservatives are doing to black people at large is precisely what george zimmerman did to trayvon martin. they are suspected of being disposed to to violence in some way more than other races. they are judged guilty before they do anything. >> i think it would be a marvelous bit of irony if they were that clever. i should say quickly, about the graphic about 31% of african-americans believing our own group is the most racist. that poll is done by the same people who brought you president romney. >> and so that changes the
reliability of this. i think they are trafficking in the same idea. i think in some ways it makes perfect sense because we wouldn't be here were it not for the laws, the laws that really predicated upon this sense of fear of criminals and specifically black and brown people. >> what do you mean by that? >> with when we look at mr. zimmerman who's been the emphasis people had here for good reason, but he -- how do we get to this situation. this is a product, in the same way that maybe new town is a product of liberalizing gun laws, we don't get to the situation with trayvon martin without stand your ground. it's a natural byproduct of having laws that make proactive self-defense. and so when we -- we look at how we got here, the nra created this culture of fear, tapped into this culture of fear, and now we don't know whether or not it's actually legal to --
>> that's right. it's the same fear that -- it's so clear, we see it every day on fox, you see it on the drudge report, it's this ability to reach into the deepest brainstem activity of the fear impulse, and it's the same thing that drives the nra, this paranoid vision of the moment when racial violence happens, when nat turner is at your door, right? that that is the thing that is being tapped into, even in preparation, even though the fact that george zimmerman is on trial is the product of a disciplined, totally nonviolent protest movement that happened in florida. >> absolutely. and the spektr of violence is even more shocking considering the fact that people -- when they first saw this, there were 44 days in which people didn't believe there would be any arrest. >> no spector of justice. >> no belief. the other thing here is, that riots and unrest tends to happen when people expect one outcome and they get something else. i don't think people expect for there to be a conviction in this
case, or people are at least prepared to accept the idea or recognize the idea there may well be an acquittal. >> i think people have priced that in as it were. thanks so much, really appreciate it. >> thank you. walmart's about to get into a smackdown with washington, d.c., i'll explain next. and didn't know where to start. a contractor before at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading.
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threat to d.c. councilmembers. try to force us to pay our employees a living wage, we won't build a store in the d.c. area. promising to cancel plans for three of six stores planned for the district. it felt like walmart was sticking guns to councilmembers heads. still, the d.c. council held their ground and voted 8-5 this afternoon to require retailers with corporate sales $1 billion or more to pay their employees no less than 12.50 an hour. now, that is still not a ton of money. we're talking about $26,000 a year in a town that is among the top ten most expensive places in the country. given that walmart is one of the most profitable companies on the planet, paying its d.c. workers a few dollars more than the prevailing minimum wage will probably amount to nothing more than a rounding error. eight votes still leaves the
council one vote short of being able to override vincent gray. he said i strongly urge the council to consider whether this legislation will actually promote strong economic development in the district and expand job opportunities for residents in the district. he's afraid the bill the drive business, walmart out of d.c. walmart pulled the same stunt in chicago seven years ago. walmart threatened to cancel plans to open several new stores in the city, and mayor daley vetoed the bill. let's be clear, this has nothing to do with walmart's balance sheet. this is about their raw assertion of power. the notion that walmart can pay their workers whatever they want and dare anyone to tell them otherwise. that's why moments after the d.c. council voted to stick to their guns walmart announced
they would be cancelling plans for three stores in d.c. joining me now is an assistant the professor of science at columbia university. dorian, this was the issue you studied. this walmart fight in chicago, it is ear eerie, i was in chicago reporting on it at the time. it is eerie how similar this fight is to that one. >> yes, chris, it is eerie, and i wish i could have bet on this in vegas somewhere. this is walmart's playbook. this is out of walmart's playbook for how they treat black communities and their elected officials. we saw this in 2006 as you mentioned, where they made explicit threats about a $10 an hour living wage. that was his first and only veto in 22 years in office. >> the council basically all they did was daly's bidding, they were this ridiculous rubber stamp body. they were vetoed.
>> and he was able to twist some arms so they couldn't override the veto. what was walmart worried about in that case, the precedent that bill would set, that other municipalities, where it has to seek expansion, it has to open stores in urban america, urban america that it's avoided for 30 years. this is also, just to give you more context. we 15u the same thing in 2003 in englewood, california. when that city council decided to pass rules and regulations. walmart didn't like it then either, they went to the voters and lost a campaign, spent over a million dollars trying to win exemptions from all the rules and regulations. >> this expansion into urban areas, who has the leverage? which is to say, walmart thinks they have the leverage because the people of d.c. and chicago want the jobs. right now you're seeing the amazing animation of walmart stores as they prolier ate across the country.
walmart has saturated all the nonurban areas in america. if they want to grow, they have to penetrate these areas. it seems like chicago or d.c. could hold the cards, but they're not willing to call walmart's bluff. >> just in that hour of debate today, the ceo of walmart made $11,000. in that one hour of debate on the bill. he has the largest worker to ceo ratio of the fortune 500 companies. this is a powerful company, and this is a moment when every day people have the power to say, you're not going to come into our community on your terms. >> i've been to the west side walmart in chicago that got built after the mayor vetoed it. i've been there on a saturday, it's packed. i've seen the folks from the west side of chicago who have jobs there who didn't have jobs before. there are a lot of folks on the west side of chicago who are shopping there because their prices are low.
i don't know, if you did a survey, whether they would say they're sorry that walmart came in. what do you say to that? >> i agree with you, i think as consumers where there are existing businesses, people love walmart, if you ask the workers in those stores, you'll get a different answer. because walmart's pitch to urban america is, we're going to create quality jobs for you, in places of high unemployment. we know that's not the case. they have a policy of not only hiring temporary workers, they're not hiring people full time any more. those that want to work full time, they don't give them enough hours because they don't want to pay for health insurance. they claim they pay an average hourly wage of $12.78. if that were true, $12.50 wouldn't be a problem. we know they pay roughly in the $8 to $9 range. and they want to keep it that way. >> dorian warren from columbia university, thanks so much. >> thank you, chris. there is a fascinating [ male announcer ] away...
there is a fascinating intraconservative fight going on in the great state of georgia right now fp in which we find a tea party leader accusing a koch funded conservative group of distortions and deception. first i want to show you the three awesomest things on the internet today. beginning with tough times for justin bieber. earlier this year, he abandoned his pet monkey at a german airport. his latest offense can be best defined, justin bieber found urinating in a restaurant mop bucket. >> here is a picture post pee. >> that purportedly was the bieber himself spraying glass cleaner over the picture of former president bill clinton. new york magazine floated a few theorys of why he's not a fan of bubba.
now chelsea clinton has weighed in and agrees it's definitely nafta. the second awesomist thing on the internet today, some leftover swag finds a good home. two sets of merchandise are produced, each team gets its own set of t-shirts and hats declaring them the champions, there can only be one winner. the losing team's apparel is donated to countries where new clothing is not only welcome but needed. in the spirit of 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1994, almost but not quite super bowl champs the buffalo bills, these kids in kenya are now sporting romney/ryan campaign wear. cindy waters asked the campaign to donate t-shirts and hats to her group. the organization helps out orphaned kids.
and miss waters says the t-shirts are a blessing. lemons into lemonade. and the third awesomest thing on the internet today. two amazing escapes from charging predators caught on tape. tourists captured this herd of impalas trying to escape. a pair of cheetahs are on their tail. one little guy gets left behind. fortunately, he has an escape route. yes, that is a cheetah's lunch jumping into someone's jeep. there was no parked toyota for rex ryan to jump into when he decided to go running with the bulls in pamplona, spain. now, deadspin has video of the jets coach mounting a barricade to avoid the wrath of one pissed off bull. it's a macho activity, but it's pee your pants terrifying for
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oh, my god. oh, my god. >> that video was taken early saturday morning by a resident in quebec, canada. the blasts were from a runaway oil train. 50 people are dead or still missing with 20 confirmed deaths. in a town that on friday looked like this. but now looks like this. around 30 buildings were destroyed, about 2,000 residents forced from their homes. canadian officials watched a probe to figure out why this train was speeding out of control for nearly seven miles. the 73 cars on the train, 72 of them were carrying oil. before it derailed the train was rolling through the dark without anyone knowing. residents had barely any time to react. one man who was in a popular bar downtown said he would have incinerated if he stayed 30 seconds longer. it was moving at a hellish speed, no lights, no signals, nothing at all. there was no morning, it was a black blob that came out of nowhere. the nature of this event has
supported those who propose moving oil by pipeline instead of rail. this oil came frommed bakken shale site. it's cluster of refineries can be seen from space in an area that was baron just six years ago. the public safety for bakken oil -- north dakota boasts the largest unemployment rate in the country. bakken shale represents a vision of american oil independence. as we see this week, to the north, it poses risks that are as mighty as its rewards. joining me now is former senator and democrat from until north dakota, chairman of the senate subcommittees on aviation, appropriations, water, policy
and affairs. a senior fellow of the bipartisan center. he's written a new book called gridlock of thriller novel. which is an oxymoronic play on words. senator, let me begin with you. the bakken boom, which is the oil that ended up in this town that i never heard of in canada, blew it to smithereens. it is just transformed your state. it's completely transformed your state. do we have the regulatory infrastructure in place to deal with the explosion that we have seen in oil coming up the bakken reserve? >> well, first of all, it's not just the bakken, it's the natural gas, it's a national phenomenon, and it's good news in the sense that we're producing oil here at home. this is a description of why you need effective regulatory authority, you need people that
are accountable. you need best practices, we've gone through a period of time where we hear people say get the government off our back, deregulate everything. the images you showed on the screen which shows why you need effective regulatory oversight. >> one of the things that's happening in fracking broadly, the business is moving quickly, the regulatory framework is not moving as quickly. >> there are still concerns of pollution of water sources with fracking. while we're moving tons and tons of oil. ten years ago, north dakota was producing 80,000 barrels of oil a day. today it's producing 800,000 barrels of oil a day. 75% of that is moving by rail. it's also seen an explosion in natural gas production from fracking, and 30% of the gas produced in north dakota is being flaired off, it's being burned off at the well head
which is a major issue for emissions of all sorts of pollutants, including greenhouse gases. what we're seeing here is the shale revolution is leading to congested rail lines to move oil to fuel cars in uncongested streets. we have to look for more sustainable solutions. >> the sustainable solution and folks will tell you. this is a different problem because it's tar sands. the keystone pipeline, doesn't come out of the bakken. but the keystone pipeline. it's better than moving it by rail, right? >> well, there are two issues here, we can come back to the issue of hydraulic fracturing, which we've done for 50 years or so -- >> never on this scale. >> not on this scale. nothing approaching this scale. in the bakken and north dakota we're down 10,000 feet. it's not as if we're not going to produce our oil and gas, we are, the question is how do we produce it with what kind of regulatory oversight.
when we produce it in an area like the bakken or the natural gas areas in the east, the question is, how do we transport it, by pipe, by rail. because we're going to transport it to places where oil can be refined and it's critically important, we do that with public safety in mind. with effective regulators who are out there making certain regulations. >> you said something that i think is the conventional wisdom in washington, it's all going to come out of the ground. we're going to get the stuff that's in there, it's going to come out. do you agree with that? >> i do not. first, on the debate versus rail versus pipeline, it is true that by volume there are more incidents by rail, but yeah -- >> yeah, this thing -- i have to say, i am agnostic on this, whatever the safety data suggests. watching a town blown leveled -- i mean, destroyed, blown to smithereens makes me painfully acutely aware of moving this rail. which is happening right now as we're talking. >> remember, the incidents with
pipelines can be much larger on a volume basis when there is a rupture like the pegasus line in arkansas. the kalamazoo spill in michigan. we're still pulling tar sands oil out of the kalamazoo river. moving by pipeline isn't necessarily the solution. >> the argument on the other side is, it's good for the country, it's jobs, everything we do has risks, we drive cars around, we lose tens of thousands of people a year to car accidents. >> one out of every barrel of oil. one out of every eight barrels of oil that comings out of the ground in the world comes out of a pickup truck or car in america. i'm a big supporter of electric vehicles using dr. gas. hydrogen fuel celled vehicles. i do say this again. we're going to produce the natural gas and the oil in this
country. when you do it safely, effectively, with best practices, it's good for the country. this is a good news story. >> the people promoting alternative energy are not just the usual suspects, i should say. up next, i'm going to introduce you to someone who is leading the charge for solar energy, also happens to lead the tea party patriots. she'll tell us about her efforts and why they're being attacked by the very people who help fund the tea party. ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive.
news this week out of guantanamo bay, cuba, where the u.s. is regularly force feeding dozens of prisoners. a prison spokesman announcing this week that officials will take special care to time those prisoners force feedings so as not to interfere with the traditional daylight fasting of ramadan. we observe that the daytime fast is an essential component of muslim observance of ramadan. internal feeding refers to the
practice of strapping prisoners to chairs and forcibly shoving tubes up their noses and down their throats. we're still going to do that, but we're going to make special scheduling times when we do that. the rest of the world will not be faulted for wanting us to understand that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. announcer: you're on the right track
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in georgia, a vote is expected tomorrow on whether the state's largest electricity provider needs to expand its use of solar energy. the proposal has support in places you might not expect. leaders of atlanta's tea party are pushing for the solar expansion as a matter of free market choice. despite the tea party support, a political group founded by charles and david koch wants regulators to reject the new solar plan. that group is americans for prosperity which launched a multimedia offensive this week, including an e-mail saying, utility bills are as high as 40% higher on average. that's a claim the associated press reports is misleading. joining me now is debbie dooley, co-founder of the atlanta tea party, still with me at the table forrer senator byron
jordan. debbie, what is this fight about to expand solar, and why are you as a tea party activist engaged in it? >> well, we believe, and we care about our environment we just believe things should be done in a conservative way. we want to give consumers a choice. this solar plan will not have to be subsidized. and we believe that this giant utility monopoly deserves some competition. and consumers deserve a choice. it's just that simple. >> this is music to my ears. i think this is where you and i can agree about monopolies. when we talk about the energy market. we are not talking about anything that looks anything like a free market. it's not the market for cars, shoes, soda, in georgia, you have one company controlling your electricity and consumers have no say in where that electricity comes from. >> you are absolutely correct.
and our stance on this is show us in the constitution where government can pick winners and losers, and where the government can set up a monopoly and be an impediment to the free market. we believe it's wrong. that is an issue we are also going to be tackling this next legislative session. we will be asking legislators to overturn the territorial right act of 1973 that allowed these monopolies to take place. >> how do you feel about the koch brothers coming in and spending a lot of money and going after your group for pushing for this solar expansion? >> well, as long as afp georgia is honest with the information we don't have a problem with that. we get along with afp on most issues, in all families, you're like siblings, you're going to
have your squabbles where you disagree. but afp georgia is putting out absolutely false information. they're taking data from two years ago, three years ago, saying solar is too expensive, it has to be subsidized. the bottom line is, solar parts have plummeted since 2008. they have dropped in some areas, almost 75%. it can give consumers a choice and protect the environment. >> debbie i want to go to tyson for context about this. we have a situation where solar is plummeting, and utilities get to control where they're sourcing their power, right? >> right. in addition to that, if you're -- in the utility business, your job is to sell electricity to homes and businesses. the last thing you want is for homes and businesses to become independent power generators by putting solar panels on their roofs. so southern company, it's in their financial interest to
block efforts to make buildings and individuals and businesses energy independent. but we need to, the technology is there, and even if a household can't afford to buy expensive solar panels, there are so many companies out there where you can lease the panels. >> no upfront costs. >> and it's cheaper on your utility. >> i want to hammer this home, debbie, i think it's key to your objection. our power that we plug into is centralized in this country. centralized utility. and it means the political power is centralized utilities. the radical promise of solar power is decentralizing that power, so that southern company isn't just controlling the power, people are controlling their own faith in power. >> if we want more clean and renewable energy, we need to do something about it. 30 states have knees renewable standards. good for them, there's no heroes. there's no saying, if you don't care where you are, you're never going to be lost. well --
>> and the bottom line. >> the states need to make choices about what kind of future they want. debbie's right about this. there should be renewable energy standards. >> i disagree with that, but i do believe that in georgia, we can show where groups from the left and right are putting our differences aside. we support coal, we support nuclear, but we believe in diversification of our energy portfolio. i'm a grandmother, i care about my grandson's future, and our world is using more and more energy every day. we have to look for the future and make sure we have an ample energy supply. in georgia, we found a conservative way to do it, and it's brought together people on the left and right. we are forming what we call a degree tea coalition. >> i like it.
i like green tea, and i like the green tea coalition. i'm going to be voting you on with the big vote this week. debbie dooley, byron dorgan. pleasure to have you here. that is all in for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> i would pay good money, hard, cold cash to see you and debbie doolly take that show on the road. your conversation with her was spectacular. >> ien cot agree more. >> amazing. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. the washington post leads today with a scoop that is the biggest development yet in the scandal that envelopes a man who the republican party nearly chose to be their party's nominee for vice president just this past year, the washington post reporting on its front page today on another $120,000 in loot, just in plain cash, that virginia governor bob mcdonnell has seen fit to pocket during his time as governor.