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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  July 15, 2013 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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a comfort to the god-aimed eternal spirit within her but not to her motherhood. the specifically maternal happiness must be written off, never in any place or time will she have her son on her knees or bathe him or tell him a story or plan for his future. when the verdict was delivered on saturday night, the seats where trayvon martin's parents had sat were suddenly empty. and in the noise that necessarily surrounded this trial, those two seats speak to us of the silent grief that they must live with for the rest of their lives. thank you for watching. "hardball" is next. >> aftermath. let's play "hardball." good .
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i'm chris matthews out in san francisco. let me start tonight with this. according to the u.s. centers for disease control and prevention, a white person in this country is five times as likely to commit suicide with a gun as to be shot with one. you are more likely to deliberately kill yourself with a firearm than have someone else shoot and kill you. now pause for this, if you're an african-american in this country you're five times as likely to be shot and killed by someone as to do it to yourself. this explains if you think about this amazing number, and i will admit it's only part of the differing attitudes on the trayvon martin tragedy, it explains a vital life and death difference how we look and feel about guns in this country. if you are black in america, you see the horror up close. it's why you may be wondering why your country refuses to take a minimal step to protect them, your kids from people having guns who shouldn't. tonight we're going to talk about the overall reaction to the verdict in the zimmerman murder case. i want to get what p to what i
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think are the layers to the case and there are layers all which matter to what's happening today in this country, the emotional aftermath. first, and this is a fact, the historic injustice to blacks in this country as the hands of whites. slavery was a 250-year fact of life on this continent. jim crow was a 100 year fact of life. since the 1960s, what's come is a mix of bad and good that fails to offset that came before, the results of which continue in the relations between white and black right up through the trial and aftermath part of the context inpy we live. seconds is the combination of facts that create the context of the actual tragedy down there in florida. this killing of an african-american teenager. this fact that he pursued mr. zimmerman, a young man acting like he was a police officer. armed as if he was one. deciding on the guilt of that young man as if he had the rights and duty of a police officer and very well perhaps because he was carrying that gun felt like a police officer. who knows?
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who knows? well, this combination of history and context are the box in which this case came in. though the jurors were asked to rule what happened when those twos men met up with each other, i don't think it's easily possible to ignore the circumstances of history and george zimmerman's behavior up till they met that evening, i don't think you can ignore that, it's not possible to view the public reaction right now to the trial's after ath apart from those two factors of history and zimmerman kept bringing a gun into the situation. white america may have been surprised that the jury's decision way back in the other celebrated murder case, can the oj case but did not see it as part of a historic wrong, some pattern of historic injustice. it's plain as we watch the reaction african-americans see the verdict of saturday night very much in the light of history. let's talk to joy reid's an msnbc contributor and eugene robinson from "the washington post" and a political analyst. before i hear from you two sean
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people, i want to show us the context what's going on in this country. it is a disgrace. take a look -- this isn't a disgrace. an editorial new saus today characterized the frustration and anger that many feel. quote, this is from an unsigned editorial, the fact remains that zimmerman a neighborhood watch volunteer and cop wanna bill instantly identified martin as a blanking punk up to no good. the fact remains that he was doing nothing wrong. he was returning from a snack run at a convenience store heading for the house of his father's girlfriend. african-americans saw a case in the way that the jury of six women, many of them white probably could not. despite all the nation's progress in burying its racist past, minorities are commonly stopped by authorities or viewed as up to no good for no other reason than the color of their skin. and that comes down somewhere in the middle. let me start with you folks right now. i want to get to some of the crazier stuff in the next segment. is it possible, joy, my friend,
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is it possible to unlayer this situation from historic injustice going back to the first slave to get here all the way through jim crow through the latest police profiling and separate out the fact that zimmerman walked into a situation with a gun and perhaps with an attitude, who knows, that he was some kind of pseudopolice officer and he was somehow catching people he thought were theal cs, profiling or not from the actual question the jury was asked to answer, what happened when these two people met. who was the aggressor, the who did the defendant feel justified fear of loss of life? can you separate the behavior of mr. zimmerman before the incident came about from the actual question of guilt or innocence which the jury was asked to decide? >> i would suggest not. since the only account that fully explains what happened on that night came from zimmerman and he told a lot of untruths about what he was doing that
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night even down to whether he was following his trayvon, his account alone is unreliable. while there may have been reasonable doubt, believing george zimmerman's story that trayvon martin leapt out from the bush, you have to believe that will trayvon would have been scary to you, that he would have been frightening to you. the defense played on that when they showed that will picture of martin with the shirt off and the gold grill in and said this is the person that my client saw and that whole idea of him being not just a regular teenager but a squary black menace. then the second part of that -- >> you don't accept the testimony or the evidence from the forensic scientist that he did have evidence of serious injury on his back of his head that may have been caused by cement? >> his own physician said they were exaggerated. the medical examiner said there were two small cuts. chris serino said he believed zimmerman exaggerated his injuries.
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here's the question, chris. >> where did the injuries come from on the back of his head. >> i have to idea. they could have been rolling around on the grass, who knows. clearly there was a fight. george zimmerman's total account of having his head slammed to the concrete when they wound up in the grass, his own lawyer admitted maybe he did exaggerate his injuries and they wound up on the grass. in the end, his story was contingent that trayvon martin saw the gun and reaped for the gun. >> you believe that he was guilty of second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt. if you were a juror, you would have decided that based on the trial? >> i think them had enough for manslaughter if the prosecutors had done a halfway decent job. they never established a theory of the case of their own. the same question you're asking, is the prosecution should have provided a theory and i'll provide you with one at least one possible theory. this is it. we never col get people to understand the fear somebody would feel if they are a young black teenage male when they have someone following them.
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i heard a lot of people white looking at the case and saying he was just following him. it's frightening to be followed. if he decided to fight someone and armed man following had im. >> he didn't know he was armed, did he? or did he. >> to fight someone following him. the idea of somebody following you and having the right to ask you where you are, there's a history of that in this country. >> what's your theory? your mind's eye, do you have a visual theory of them somehow getting into a fight but and this guy not being justified in the sense of fear of bodily harm or death? i mean, do you have a sense that that didn't meet the condition? how do you see it. >> getting back to your original question of the idea of african-americans being out of place, i think obviously george zimmerman decided this kid didn't belong here. there was something wrong with him and he decided to follow him and caught up to him. once this person following you gets out of their car and catches up to you, does this kid have now a right to maybe fight him? did he hit him? that's entirely possible.
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but it gets back to the question of this history in this country. there used to be a time when not only police could ask any black person on the street, what are you doing here? you had to answer. but when any civilian had to do it, too. some civilian decides you don't belong here. tell me what you're doing here. because i'm a young black teenager, i have an obligation to answer you? zimmermanhan no authority to ask that kid what he was doing there and never mentioned he was neighborhood watch. >> i'm trying to get to -- gene, how do you put it all together? is it a way to disaggregate zt profiling aspect of this, the gun fact from what p may have the happened or not happened? >> well, that's essentially what the jury was asked to do. the jury was asked to disaggregate the history from the what happened. i think the justice system failed trayvon martin the night he was killed. by the police did not conduct a proper investigation that night.
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they didn't arrest zimmerman. you know, a grown man acknowledges i just killed an unarmed 17-year-old kid. they didn't do an investigation. didn't arrest him. they didn't test him for drug or alcohol use. they did a sort of cursory examination for forensic evidence and they barely bothered to look for witnesses. none of that was really done till six weeks later. so happy i can't blame prosecutors that much for trying to work with what they had. now, the reason you the system failed trayvon martin that night and continually i believe is the sort of dehumanization of black young men, of black boys. he was a 17-year-old. a teenager three weeks past his 17th birthday. i've had a couple of those in my house and whatever they might think they are, they're boys. they're not. >> i this i you're right. that's where i agree. i agree with the context because they let it drop.
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the initial reaction we have to remind ourselves, i don't like the governor anyway down there, scott what's his name. >> rick scott. >> the way he jumped in and obviously political purpose there. i did think it was kind of cold to put it lightly to have the zimmerman talk to the police and then just drop the matter as if this kid wasn't a human being. >> right. and black boys are not allowed to be boys. they're not allowed to be at the cusp of manhood and to make the sort of questionable but not fatal, shouldn't be fatal decisions that kids make at that age. yet it just seemed okay to the police and the prosecutors initially till there was a national outcry and then people looked more closely at the case. if we're going to have a conversation, let's talk about that. let's talk about black boys and how they are seen as men, as full of menace. >> i'm putting you on the spot
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here. when you watch the trial like i watched maybe two-thirds half the time, i had other things to do, like thenous, but i was watching a lot of it with interest. i thought the jury was on its way to acquittal. i wasn't sure about the manslaughter. i thought it might have been a hung jury. i didn't think the prosecution was competent. i didn't think they had the evidence. maybe they could have had it. maybe a genius prosecutor could have done it. they weren't geniuses. >> i think the chance of the state developing a sort of dispassionate account of what happened that night different from zimmerman's account, an account that would stand up to zimmerman's account frankly was probably lost in the weeks between when the killing took place and when the investigation started. and i think the prosecution was left with a bunch of facts and they poked a lot of holes into zimmerman's story. so it's not as if they didn't impeach his story. >> yes. >> but i'm not sure it was
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possible for them to develop a much more coherent narrative because the information simply wasn't there. >> that's my question. >> after that lapse of time. >> joy, last thought to you. quickly, why didn't they try to present a movie in our minds of what happened favorable to the prosecution. >> i think that's the point because you were asking all of those questions at the beginning. those are the questions a lot of jurors were probably asking, too. even down to conceding who was on top, it seems like the prosecutors maybe didn't have a theory of what could have happened. but also culturally they had to be able to imagine what will gone guy said at the end. this was a kid trying to get home who might have been afraid. i never heard that developed till the very end. it seemed like they found their momentum on the last day. they never presented a narrative that col have compelled these six women none of whom had. the life experiences that an african-american teenager would have had. rather than develop that over the course of the trial, they try to rush it in at the end.
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it really isn't surprising that they haust. >> do you think it's surprising that the jury allowed an all-white jury? why did the prosecution let that happen? why didn't they challenge to get a mixed jury? >> i have no idea. i thought that procedure was fairly well established over the last five or six decades. >> we get used to that. >> that you wouldn't want the jury to have no african-american jurors. >> i don't think the prosecution believed in the case. i think they had their heart in it, they didn't have a story to tell. they didn't have a case to make. both of you, i agree with. they impeached the testimony given through videotape and otherwise testimony even with the guy not having to sit in the chair of zimmerman. i didn't get a sense they had a counter story to tell. >> their own story, exactly. >> please come back. you're the best. you're part of us. thanks, joy. thank you eugene. coming up, the justice department is opening a hate crime in the case. let's see how the prospects look. where the feds and the federal
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government and the prosecution in the justice department can actually bring a case and will they. politics will play a part in this. you'll have to wonder about eric holder and what he wants to do. this is "hardball," the place for politics. >> this case has never been about race nor has it ever been about the right to bear arms. not in the sense of proving this as a criminal case. but trayvon martin was profiled. there is no doubt that he was profiled to be a criminal. and if race was one of the aspects in george zimmerman's mind, then we believe we put out the proof necessary to show that zimmerman did profile trayvon martin. [ male announcer ] these heads belong to those who can't put life on hold because of a migraine. so they trust excedrin migraine
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>> we are cognizant of the fact that the state trial reached its
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conclusion over the weekend. as parents, as engaged citizens, and as leaders who stand vigilant against violence in communities across the country, the deltas are deeply and rightly concerned about this case. the justice department shares your concern. ity share your concern. >> welcome back to "hardball." not guilty. that was the final decision by the florida jury acquitting george zimmerman of all charges in the killing of trayvon martin but those weren't the last words in this case. attorney general holder you saw just there says his department of justice has placed the case under review. as it examines whether or not zimmerman violated any civil rights statutes. some 450,000 people have signed a petition urging is the justice department to file charges. the martin family is looking at its own options, as well. attorneys for the family say they're considering filing civil
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charges, a strategy successful in prior high profile cases. of course, the o.j. simpson trial was one where the civil charges against simpson were successful. anyway, the burden of proof to win a case in such a matter is less stringent than in criminal cases. a proponderance of evidence standard is use which means the greater weight of evidence must favor the plaintiff but it's a much lower bar than what the prosecution had to problem in the criminal case. because criminal prosecution is now off the table, zimmerman could be forced to testify about himself. what's the next chapter for george zimmerman and the martin family? for the latest, we're going to go to justice correspondent pete williams. pete, when you're looking at this coldly, what do you see? >> i see unlikely -- they're unlikely. here's the reason. the closest fit under federal law would the 4-year-old federal hate crimes law. it says that for a person to be
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punished under the federal system, you have to show that bodily injury was the result, was caused by someone's racial perception or the belief that the victim they attacked the victim because of race. that's the difficult thing here. now, the federal government could well look at evidence. there's been an argument here that it all started because george zimmerman, the race was a factor that trayvon martin weighs factor was a race. that's why he started following him. what the federal law requires is that you persuade a jury that the reason zimmerman pulled the trigger was because of trayvon martin's race and not some other factor such as self-defense. the further away you get from the shooting itself and you go to some other part of the chain of events, no matter how it may have started, the further away you get away from that, the harder to make the case. i've talked to several former prosecutors in the justice department civil rights division and they say say the same thing.
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proving someone's intent is one of the harvardest things to do in the law. i think it would be surprising if the federal government brings a prosecution based on what we know now. now, it may be their investigation will uncover something different. but if it doesn't and relies largely on the evidence we've already seen, then i think federal prosecution is unlikely. >> i've been trying to make the case tonight the reason for the anger over this trial for a lot of americans comes from a number of sources. certainly history of racial behavior in this country starting with slavery and jim crow. white people's behavior towards black people to put it bluntly. you have the whole question of profiling and whether george zimmerman went out there with an attitude and because he was an african, he felt he was get and separate all that what happened between these twos gentlemen when the they met that night which is what the jury had to decide. do you have to argue to win a
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civil rights case that he shot him on sight? that there wasn't a fear of great bodily harm or a scuff? >> or you have to prove at least that the reason that he shot him more than anything else, beyond a reasonable doubt was that it was because of his race and not because he feared for his life or safety or something else. what you say about the reason for the public outrage may well be true. to try to place all that on the back of this admittedly difficult standard in the federal hate crimes law is a very tall order, chris. and the prosecutors who have brought these cases say they succeed when there is really strong evidence of a person's bias. they're making statements while they attack someone. they tell other people in advance that they're going to go out and try to attack someone who is black or someone who's gay or someone who's a muslim or whatever. you have to have other kinds of evidence. >> thanks, pete. you're always great. justice correspondent for nbc news. we're joined by someone very much involved in the matter,
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jasmine ranch an attorney representing the martin family. thank you for joining us. can you tell us your feels and thoughts are about the future in this case? >> you know, saturday was certainly heartbreaking for the legal team and for the family. it was a big disappointment for us to get a not guilty verdict but we want the people to know that not guilty does not mean that george zimmerman was innocent. right now in this moment more than anything, i think we are feeling inspired and hopeful by the love and encouragement we've gotten from all over the world. i've had calls from morocco, london, jamaica and then outpouring of love. that's what the family is standing on now. we've heard the words of our president and attorney general eric holder who says he plans to pursue the federal hate crime charges against george zimmerman or plans to continue the investigation. we're feeling hopeful is the federal government will do what the state did not do and what the jury did not do.
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i hate to steal the words of don west, but it was a tragedy in federal state court. >> pete williams, i'm not an expert like yourself, but do you you have to prove it was basically shooting on sight? i've heard earlier charges when it was very outraged in the country that he saw a young black man and shot him because he met the profile in his head who was committing these burglaries. if he it did involve a scuffle, if his head was hit a number of times, maybe his testimony isn't accurate, but there if there was a scuffle that involved the danger of bodily harm, can you still problem the reason he shot the poor young kid was because he was black? can you prove he waited till his head was hit three times and then shot him because he was black? how do you separate those two possibilities for a jury? >> first, i don't think there's any statute in law that says you
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have to shoot somebody first. i think in this case, we have a tremendous amount of evidence -- >> what would be the story you would tell a federal jury? what would be your scenario of what happened. >> i think george zimmerman placed 46 calls throughout a short period are of time rotting black menace suspicious in the neighborhood. he got out of that karsaying these f'inging a holes always get away. he followed trayvon martin with a loaded gun and that loaded gun when he pulled the trigger, the thick that pulled the trigger was his hate in his heart for african-american people. we heard the defense say it over and over. >> let's get back to the incident. you said he carried a loaded gun. was he carrying it or was it in his holster. >> you said he was carrying it. >> he was carrying it on his person. >> you said he had the intention of shooting. this would be your case, it's important you make it clear, he went out with the intention of killing a black man? >> i don't think he got out of the karsaying i'm going to go kill a black man tonight. i think that he followed trayvon
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martin because he was black. i think he assumed he was committing criminal activity because he was black and he put a bullet in his heart because he was black. if it hadn't been for the color of his skin, i don't believe he would have begun following >> do you believe he felt any danger of his life when they were scuffling? >> i don't know how a grown man get danger when he was carrying a loaded gun the entire time. if he was so afraid, why did he get out of the car and follow trayvon? he was not afraid. he was not going to let another one get away. >> at the point of horror when he did pull the trigger, do you think he would have bived differently at that point if the person he claimed to be the assail," the aggressor, who he claimed is wa the one threatening his life, if that person would have been white he would have behaved differently? >> yes, i do. all i need to do was listen to the words of the defense. the defense tried to justify killing trayvon martin because
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he was black. the last witness they called said somebody black broke into the neighborhood. that's why george thought trayvon was a criminal and that's okay. that's not okay. our constitution says that's not okay. >> it's great to have you on. thank you so much for sharing your points of view. it's great to have you on. please come back. up next, the politics in this case is not just black and white but part of it is. why people also see is the case through the right versus left here. there's some really crazy stuff coming from the hard right here. this is "hardball," the place for politics. every day we're working to be an even better company -
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no, you can't. pretty sure we can... try snapshot today -- no pressure. reaction on the explosive right i've got to call them to the not guilty verdict in the trial of zimmerman was loudest among the people who frequently try to stoke the fire and polarize any issue that comes to the fore. these often exploiting an issue for their own again.
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here they had again. here's a sample starting with iowa congressman steve king who said zimmerman should never have been prosecuted in the first place and then he took a jab at the president, or course. >> the evidence didn't support prosecution and the justice department engaged in this. the president engaged in this and turned if into a political issue that should have been handled exclusively with law and order. >> i watched the protesters none of whom sat through the trial all of them prepared to be a lynch mob. they wanted one verdict and the verdict was guilty. >> i'll bet most of the protesters watched every hour of the trial. the night the verdict was announced conservative ann colter tweeted one word hallelujah. the reaction from political left was more muted but still questioned the verdict. elijah cummings was among those giving voice to some of the public dismay. >> it's very, very hard for the
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public to understand how somebody with skittles and candy against somebody with a gun and that ends up that the zimmerman zimmerman walks away with not even a misdemeanor charge against him found guilty charged against him and then young trayvon is dead. that is hard for people to understand. >> a person who officials had asked not to follow him took a gun and killed him. now that person will get his gun back. george zimmerman will get that gun back. he will be out and i think the notion that the jury is saying to him that if he did the same thing again today or tomorrow or next week or someone else did it, that there would be no punishment is not a great signal to accepted. >> the justice department's going to take a look at this. this is not over with. that's good. this is our system. it's gotten better, not worse.
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>> i worry about all those young black kids out there that see a system of justice that maybe doesn't respond to them. i think a national dialogue is needed. >> as my colleague joe scar borough writes in politico, the verdict showed just how politicized every spec of american life has become for a hyper partisan political class. joining me howard fineman and mother jones magazine david corn, both political analysts. gentlemen, this, well, predictable outrage i call it from the right, but i have to tell you, when i watched newt in action, i've learned to believe he's just pulled the pin in the grenade at every opportunity. here he is again trying to excite i think a group of americans unhappy perhaps at the whole tragedy itself who aren't saying hallelujah. i think most americans say what a terrible thing that's happened in race relations in this country. we don't think anything -- there's no heros in this case.
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>> newt can sometimes be a human sneer. in the case of ann colter, she's a, you know, on it for show. steve king is the wild man from western iowa. newt gingrich used to be speaker of the house. he should know better. to focus on the accusation of ignorance on the part of people demonstrating is to more than miss the point, chris. more than miss the point. and look, i actually think that the comments that you showed on the left side of the spectrum so to speak were more measured and more grieving, if you will. >> i groo he. >> more sad and wondering than the accusatory tone on the right. and there's nothing to be -- there's no need for accusations here. there's need for thinking, reflection and trying to make the society better. that should be of's dominant view at this point seems to me. >> david? >> you know, this sort of glee and the lack of empathy
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reflected in those quotes from the right i found quite shocking. this was a tragedy. there's no recognition of that from the comments that you showed and from others that have played out in the past few weeks and months since this happened. i'm struck by yes, there was a very difficult legal case to make here. i'm reminds of the line from dickens, mr. bumble says the law is an ass when something happens like this because it was a hard case to bring. the prosecution may have screwed it up a bit. there is no measure of justice for martin and his family. and that many seems so distant from these voices on the right that they have to jump up and down with glee and say see, we told you so, all you people on the other side, you know, you're wrong and we're going to going to call you ignorant and devalue, delegitimize your reaction to this and show that you have absolutely no understanding of justice in this country. it's quite the opposite.
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i think joe scar borough was quite right in his column when he says if the republican party conservatives are trying to broaden their appeal, they've done exactly the opposite in response to this is verdict. >> look at right and left, no the just black and white. red and blue. the possibility this will become a political issue. i'm white obviously and i always say that because it's obvious. my feeling is and this has bothered me about this case, this has grabbed the attention of the particularly the african-american community. i try to understand it in a way that the he obama presidency hasn't. if you're going to change history and race relations in this country the great opportunity for changing attitudes is going to come with a successful african-american president. it's not going to come from the o.j. case, no matter who wins it or from this case no matter who wins it. the future of justice in this country is going to come from a sense of true equality and true respect and potential. that's going to come from political participation that wins. that's my little speech.
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okay? it's what i care about. again, i'm not black. i haven't had to walk down the street or into a restaurant and have people stare at me or people treat me with a minimum of courtesy. i respect my colleagues who have lived in that world, certainly joy and certainly gene and other people like that of color in this program. let me get back to politics where i'm strongest. eric holder, is he truly under pressure from both sides? from the members of the the naacp who filed for action? is he also bothered by the potential of the right that once again go chewing on him again? >> well, it's eric holder's fate to kind of be the lightning rod and you know, front man, if you will, the guy who has to walk point for barack obama on a lot of issues. and he's going to have to do it for president obama here again on this one. eric holder spoke today to a meeting of the nation's largest
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and oldest african-american sorority. these are accomplished women, many if not most of them mothers who many with boys and with young men who know the fear and the agony of this situation i think president obama himself is conflicted. he knows he has to be and he wants to be president of all the people. he's gone to great lengths to try to say that the jury has spoken. a jury has spoken. that i want calm and order here. and i want to be the president of ought people but i think he also has an opportunity here to speak more directly to the african-american community. i think if he's going to do it at any one time, this is probably the time to do it. >> does he do it by indictment? >> that's one of the problems. >> i don't know. i think i agree with pete williams and i agree with other people i've talked to today who say bringing the civil rights prosecution is going to be very, very difficult. but whether or not there is a
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civil rights prosecution, this is a moment for the president to step forward. but terrible problems in terms of poverty, in terms of violence, in terms of incarceration and lack of political participation. >> one problem though is if you're going to do that from the president's perspective, what can you offer that's concrete and specific? we know that he's good with words. he gave a great speech on race relations during the campaign. he's written a book about this. he's thought long and hard. here there's been a demand that's been made by the african northern advocacy organizations and to come forward and just sort of once again raise this as an issue but yet not do anything while there aren't a lot of options i agree with pete too, because of the way the law is structured, it's very hard to do anything. this puts the president in a very difficult position jawbo jawboning may not be enough when you have a tragedy like this. >> breng a gun control measure back. i don't care what harry reid says. he says it isn't over, reid says
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it isn't over. okay, it's not over. bring gun control back. >> well, said. howard, fank you. david corn, thank you. we'll be right back. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna. helping people with diabetes find balance. [ herbie ] eh, hold on brent, what's this? mmmm, nice car. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal. [ crowd cheering ] oh, he's down in flames and now the ice-cold shoulder. one last play... no, game over! gps take him to the dog house. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the all-new nissan sentra. ♪
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start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan. i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc mark wrap. the dow up 19 points. the s&p adding two. the nasdaq gaining seven points. modest gains if retail sales last month as americans spent more on cars but cut back on other goods. retail sales edging up .4% in june. citigroup posting big gains in the second quarter. profits jumping 42% from a year ago. feeling the pinch at the pump? the average price for a gallon of gas up 14 cents from last week to $3.61. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball."
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a little comic relief. last week, tine idol justin bieber apologized to bill clinton after tmz released a video of the way ward youth bad mouthing a photograph of the former president. well, saturday night late night's jimmy fallon, fallon weighed in on that with a re-enactment of their phone sfrgs. here's the real reason that clinton was so forgiving of bieber's wild boy tactics. >> hello. >> hey, president clinton, this is justin bieber, yo. >> what's up my man. >> i'm actually just calling to say i'm sorry for is saying f bill clinton and spraying blue stuff on your picture. >> that's cool, bro, no worries. >> really. >> hell yeah, man. i saw the whole video. let me tell you, it was awesome.
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>> i was kind of embarrassed about it. i mean i peaed in a mob bucket. >> of course you did. you're the wild kids. i want to be one of the wild kids. i'm a wild kid. come on. >> that's great. >> i'm serious, i want to hang with you guys. i'll bring my own bucket. >> i got to go. >> hey, real quick, can you give me selena gomez's phone number. >> i don't think i can give that out, yo. >> sounds like a classic case of youth being wasted on the young. was that darrell hammond? next up is, the pen mightier than the sword? mark ta can know of california thinks so. the former high school teacher of 24 years took his republican colleagues to task with red ink grading a letter circulated by house republicans on immigration reform. he gave them an "f." amongst his corrections is a note asking the author of the letter to come by his office so he can explain it. judging by the number of corrections on those pages, i don't expect those two-two to
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settle their differences after class. cassidy isn't take the insult laying down. his office dismissed the stunt as an act of political grandstanding. up next, the epidemic of african-american men behind the bars. the double standards when it comes toes sentencing drug offenders. this is "hardball," the place for politics. my mantra? always go the extra mile. to treat my low testosterone, i did my research. my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men.
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my car is running quite well. keep your car healthy with the works. $29.95 or less after $10 mail-in rebate at your participating ford dealer. so you gotta take care of yourself? yes you do. you gotta take care of your baby? oh yeah! so what you got here? >> oh, um, two for three came early so i got a little extra. >> so what is this like, your little personal thing? >> what? no. no, that's -- we can share that. you can have some of that if you want. that's like just in case we run out. >> wow. welcome back to "hardball" that was the scene from a new film or coming out film, newly weeds direct lid shaka king which premiered at the sundance
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festival. newly weeds explores the use of marijuana use on a young couple trying to make it. joshua dubois is a former obama adviser and contributor to the daily beast. shaka, thanks for joining us. this thing i hear about but don't know much about. drugs and incarceration, a huge incarceration percentage of young african-americans. it's all about the criminal justice system right now. your thought what's the movie says. >> well, i don't think my movie speaks specifically to that epidemic. but i think that the high incarceration rates are just -- really just another example and symptom institutional racism and white supremacy. i think the reason you're seeing so many young black men in jail now is the confluence of, you know, racist criminal justice system, you know, racist law
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enforcement, you know, racist education system. you know, racist health care system, and these things are racist in classist and the two i want twine. i feel like the reasonthat you're seeing those high incarceration rates besides the draconian drug laws are just the confluence of you know, the confluence of white supremacy, really. do. >> you think that police officers do stop and frisk or any other kind of an exercise in order to capture young men on drug charges? >> oh, i think that they do it -- the police do stop and frisk i think to get them into the system, and to really infect our minds and to make us believe that that's where we belong. and this is the way we should be treated. you know, the last time i was approached by the cops, they asked me two questions. they asked me where are the drugs, not do you have any drugs
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on you, where are the drugs. and they asked me when was the last time you were arrested. and the only time i've ever seen a jail cell was when i was kidnapped by the cops when i was in 11th grade. so, you know, i got very offended, obviously, and to me, quite frankly, not to use inappropriate language on your show, but to me actions like those are far worse than calling me a -- honestly, and watching the trayvon martin trial, it with us a greater example of that. folks talked about how that was -- race might not have been a factor. but to me, we're living under black belt -- eighth degree black belt racism, where jim crowe was like yellow belt racism. it's racism where, like, you hit me and i take 20 steps away and then i die. >> shaka, thank you. hold on now. hold your thought. joshua dubois. what do you make of this question of drugs?
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i think it didn't come into this trial, but it seems like it's a big reason i'm hearing that there are so many young blacks in jail. it's just a fact we ought to look at. >> you know, it gets to how we see young african-american men and boys in this country. and that's related to the zimmerman trial. the fact of the matter is when george zimmerman looked at trayvon martin, he saw a nameless, faceless hoodie. he didn't see a young boy with hopes and dreams. he didn't see a son, a brother, a nephew. he saw some kid that was to him seemed aggressive or suspicious. and then a few minutes later, he shot that kid in the chest. and unfortunately, there are a lot of folks that are like george zimmerman. they're not monsters, but they just don't understand young african-american men and boys. and folks from all different races and background. i wrote about this in a piece for "newsweek" called "the fight for black men." i think it's a wake-up call where not only do we have to extend more empathy, we have to get to know and get to like young african-american men. >> i'll have both of you gentlemen back on again.
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by the way, very proud of my son involved with shaka in his great film. thank you both for coming on. we'll have you back. well didn't have enough time to have a thoughtful discussion. we'll be right back after this. . find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. thto fight chronic. osteoarthritis pain. to fight chronic low back pain.
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let me finish tonight with this. the american people were not collectively sitting on that jury that acquitted george zimmerman. they were not asked to judge whether the defendant was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in the second-degree murder of trayvon martin. but we are all of us jurors in
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what kind of country we want to live in. we are jurors on whether we want profiling or want people to be judged on what they do, not what they look like. we are jurors in whether we want people, civilians walking around carrying guns, believing they have the right to decide where to carry that gun and what situations they can use the confidence a gun gives you to operate as if they were trained and sworn in officers of the law. we can decide on all kinds of matters of social justice and economic fairness, all kinds of ways to make this a better country, a fairer country, a more reasonable country where the laws favor less violence, not mar. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning. in tonight's lead, the verdict and after the verdict. more than a year ago, i and others called for a full investigation into the killing of trayvon martin. the jury has spoken in the case


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