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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  July 16, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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if they came in the same situation where trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. >> george zimmerman's parents, his mom being hispanic, his father is white, they are defending their son telling barbara walters he is not a race i- >> he has never been taught to be a race i- >> we are not racist. we don't see color. we are colorblind. >> we are also now hearing from rachel jeantel a key state witness who was the last to speak to trayvon martin. she had her friend was not a thug and insisted that race did play a part. >> it was racial. let's be honest. racial. if he was -- trayvon was white, he had a hoodie on, would it have happened? that was around 7:00 or something. that's around that people walk their dogs and people stay
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outside. refed reverend al sharpton leading a conference outside the department of justice just a short time ago. >> trayvon martin had the civil right to go home and that was interfered with and violated. the overnight protest that turned violent stomping on cars and breaking windows and setting fires and attacking people on the streets. we want to point out and stress here, though. the protests the last few days have mostly been peaceful. los angeles authorities are calling now for calm. >> the martin family was very clear that those who sympathize with their plight, the best way to honor their son and their loved one is in a nonviolent manner. i'd like to bring in right now martin family attorney natalie jackson. good morning. >> good morning. >> toii want to play more of th
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compelling interview with the juror who was asked if she thought zimmerman was guilty of something. >> i think he is guilty of not using good judgment. i think george got in deep that he shouldn't have been there but trayvon decided he wasn't going to let him scare him and get the one over, up on him, or something, and i think trayvon got mad and attacked him. >> this juror went on to say that either one could have walked away and that she felt that george zimmerman's voice was clearly heard on that tape. obviously, miss jackson, it looks like she sympathized with the plight of george zimmerman and believed the evidence supported exactly what his story was. your reaction. >> my reaction personally to that there was so many people was wondering if this jury would
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see trayvon and sympathize for trayvon because they were mothers and see trayvon as their son. i think this jury cleared up the answer at least as to her that she did not see trayvon as her son and that is so troubling for many people and disheartening to so many people in race relati s relations. >> take a listen. >> i didn't think it was very credible. i feel sorry for her. she didn't want to be in this place. she asked to go and she didn't want to be a part of this jury. i think she felt inadequate toward everyone because of her education and her communication skill -- skills. i just felt sadness for her. >> felt sadness for her. miss jackson as we know now the racial makeup of this jury there were no african-americans on the
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jury. it came down to the five white women and one hispanic woman. is not believing the racial relate of someone like 17-year-old trayvon martin able to empathize walking in his shoes the biggest hang-up now? >> i don't want to paint all of the jurors with a broad brush because we haven't heard from them but we have heard from this juror. she has said she thought racial was not credible. there are five inconsistent stories that george zimmerman told the police that was put into evidence and she chose to believe george zimmerman the killer of a kid who was walking home from the store. >> we have heard from george zimmerman's parents and they are speaking out saying he is not a racist and that they are now in hiding because of what their family has endured the last year and a half and that they are praying for trayvon martin. take a listen. >> we are deeply sorry for this. deep sorry. we pray for trayvon martin to be
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in a better place. >> certainly those parents seem thoughtful. they seem authentic as they are sitting down in that interview there. have you had a chance to speak with sybrina fulton and tracy martin how the zimmerman parents are reacting and if those words bring any consolation to them? >> i haven't spoken to them about this. there are two families in this whole event and i don't think that any family should be threatened. i don't think any family should have to be in fear, because sybrina and tracy, they have had to move. they couldn't even stay in the jury room because they have been getting threats. we had to worry about their security. so we don't approve of it on either side. >> when we look at this, many experts are saying a federal case is unlikely. do you see a way forward, given that the bar is so high when we talk about any type of federal charges and has the family decided on any type of civil suit moving forward? >> the family has decided they will not let this verdict define
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their son so they will pursue any option that they have available to make sure that their son is defined by them and not this verdict. as far as what has happened, i think there's something very heartening that has happened. we have seen multiracial peaceful demonstrations in cities across the nation and i will submit you will see more. whether or not anything ever comes out of a justice department investigation, what you will see is that the people who have taken to the streets and who have said that this is not a just and fair verdict, they will become the jurors, they will become the prosecutors. they will become the police. i think that we have a brighter future to look forward to. >> martin family attorney natalie jackson. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> i want to bring benefit jealojel -- ben jealous the president of naacp. he joins from the naacp convention in orlando and joining our conversation is marc
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morial of the urban league. ben, i want to start out of the ghert with your reaction when you heard the juror speak about her reasons for finding george zimmerman not guilty. did you find the fact that with what she was saying was supported by the way that the defense presented their case? >> you know, i think what you hear there is sort of cause for concern, that perhaps these jurors, for some reason, had a hard time really putting themselves in trayvon's shoes and his family's shoes. i don't think it's really helpful at this point to really, you know, dig into the jury too much or into the -- do the postgame quarterbacking. what is important now is that folks focus on what we can do going forward and going forward, yes, his family has more options in the courts of this state from a civil perspective and, most importantly, the usdoj can actually bring criminal charges here too and that is what we are calling on them to do. we have almost 1 million signatures from people across
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this country calling on the u.s. department of justice to bring criminal charges, criminal civil rights charges and they need to do that. some people say it's a high bar. it's a bar that can be met. >> marc, as ben doesn't want to dissect the jury on this, we are still finding more information that is of interest to people as we come to their conclusions about being not guilty. this jury once owned a concealed weapon and her husband is a gun owner and also an attorney. she says she has no problem with george zimmerman getting his gun back. when we look at where we are in this country about gun culture, how much of that does it play a role in this case? >> well, i want to say, thomas, that i'd like to hear from the other jurors to see whether there was a pattern to their deliberations and a pattern to what they concluded. i think ben is right. too much postmortem is not where we should focus today. i think the focus should be on the actions of the department of
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justice, encouraging people to express themselves in a peaceful discipline matter leading up to the civil rights continuation march on august 24th, as well as standing with the family of trayvon martin as they make a decision on how they are going to make sure that trayvon martin did not die in vain. the final thing i would say, it is encouraging to see multiracial peaceful demonstrations all across the country and we want to encourage people to continue to participate in expressing their outrage at the decision but the quest for just for trayvon martin. >> gentlemen, we have gotten a lot of reaction to what ben just brought up about the fact that the department of justice might bring charges, potentially robert zimmerman who is george zimmerman's brother, he commented a short time ago directly about the naacp and others that have wanted the department of justice to move forward with charges. this is what he had to say. >> first, they want just a
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simple arrest and that is it and have his fair day in court. whatever the verdict is, we will respect it. then when the verdict was coming, they wanted -- they wanted him to be found guilty. but the verdict isn't what they wanted so now they are moving the goalposts again and calling on the department of justice to investigate him more. >> ben, does mr. zimmerman have a point there that you're moving the goalposts. >> not really. >> it was originally about having an arrest and seeing mr. zimmerman tried in a court of law and found the outcome by a jury of his peers. >> look. this has always been about encouraging people to put the faith in this justice system and have justice run its course. yes, that had to start with charges being brought against him. but from the very beginning we have been talking to d.o.j. they suspended the investigation while the try went on and they have now resumed it. he can't arbitrarily say let's stop this at the comma. you have to go to the period and deal with the full sentence when you've killed a kid. the reality is we are only halfway through that sentence.
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we have gone through one stage in the state court so another stage, the civil stage. we are a nation that believes we should be one nation. there is a federal option as well. and so he just has to deal with the fact that his brother went out there and intentionally brought a gun with no safety and tracked a kid in the streets. chose to confront that kid when the cops told him to stay in the car and the kid is debt now. he needs to man up and understand that the reality is his brother put himself in a very difficult situation and now justice has to run its full course. you can't stop at the comma. we are going to the period. >> ben, in trying to, you know, talk about this from the state of florida legally, they are saying that zimmerman was in the right and that they were not able to find him in the wrong. this jury wasn't able to find him in the wrong because of the way the laws -- >> that's what the jury found. >> the outcome that you and other activists -- ben in trying
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to get the outcome you want to see in this case are you setting the focus too narrow or should there be a more comprehensive approach because problems within the legal system especially when it comes to florida. >> thomas, let's be clear here. we have pushed from the very beginning to make sure that we get justice for trayvon martin and his family and that we also make sure there are no more tray von's. because of our work, sanford has has new chief. because of this movement, new york city now is tough anti-racial profiling laws. because of what these millions of people are doing our country is having a conversation they should be having and we are getting safe area money united as a country because of it. the reality is what we have always called for is for our country to put faith and justice running its course and the reality is that we have only gone through the first stage. we have always known there would be a civil stage and people should have always known from our first calls on the u.s. department of justice there
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would always be a role for the federal government and we are asking for both the media and the public to understand that when somebody kills a kid of any color, our country needs for justice to run its course and we are only halfway through the sentence. we have got to go to the very end. >> you do make a very valid point about the federal government was involved and then they halted the continuing of their investigation to see the criminal process go through in florida with the intention of picking it up on the other side. >> this is the other point that is important, thomas, about that, and that is this is not unprecedent unprecedented. it's customary that the federal government waits until state court proceedings conclude to determine whether or not they are going to bring civil rights or hate crime charges against this person. what the public should understand is that in the rodney king incident, this took place, and the police officers there having been acquitted in state court were convicted in federal
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court. there is nothing unusual about how this is going to proceed and how this should proceed. and the martin family has other legal options, but very importantly, this is spurring what i would call a new civil rights movement when you take this along with the tragic decision of supreme court and the voting rights act case, i think it's a wake-up call to people across the nation of some very significant issues that have to be confronted. so this is the beginning, not the end. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. naacp president ben jealous and national urban league president marc morial, i appreciate you both being here. a big question for everybody today. zimmerman juror b-37 speaking. what is your reaction to the reason why she and those other jurors found george zimmerman not guilty? you can chime in on twitter and find me on facebook. breaking news is coming up next from capitol hill where the senate has reached a tentative deal to invoice the so-called
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nuclear option. also ahead a criminal step forward. why two conservatives have signed on to a deal targeting sexual salassaults in our natio military. [ female announcer ] research suggests cell health
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breaking news from capitol hill. a tentative deal to prevent the so-called nuclear option to change the senate's filibuster roles on executive nom nations and after both sides failed to reach an green light in a rare joint caucus last night. senate majority leader reid says the two parties will discuss it at their lunch meetings today. joining me now north dakota's former governor and now a republican senator, john hoeven. sources on both parties say the senate deal is calling for the replacement of two nominees to
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the nlrb labor which get to pick two new candidates and the other five nominees to go forward. this means that senator reid will withdrawal his threat to use that nuclear option. what is your reaction to this deal? >> it's good news. we have worked very hard over the weekend to put it together. i think what it reflects is not only the respect for the senate rules but really in understanding to get solutions, we have got to work in a bipartisan way. i hope this is a step to more bipartisan solutions to meet the challenges that our country faces. >> let's talk about bipartisan solutions because a vote on the nomination of richard cordray to be the protection bureau is going forward. where do you think that is going to go? i know there have been objections not just to him but also the fact of having, you know, the consumer protection finance board. >> we are having that vote right now and so that is the first step in the agreement we will
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vote for that allows a straight up and down vote for richard courtray. we have real concerns about the cfpb. looking for more transparency and accountable and issues beyond that but that is different from allowing that vote for mr. cordray. we will allow that vote and continue to work on the cfpb and that legislation. >> when you talk about that, senator, is it your goal to have more of a multilayered top to that, or would you like to see just one director? someone who can have accountable or is it the gop stance they would like to see a merging of people at the top for accountability? >> i have problems with the whole agency. but specifically as to this deployment we would like an inspector general pointed. the agency should be subject to that process so a number of things we will try to do. >> listen to jeff america all
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right. we did not get the commitment that we tried to get. we would try to confirm it now. address the nominations that need to be address to do make the system work for working people. >> do you think when we look at this, senator, that the president in wanting to put together and cobble together the team for his second administration, does he not have a right to pick that team? >> we are allowing him to pick his team. if you look at the statistics, that's what it shows. that's why we have been able to broker a deal here because when you get down to the facts, we are allowing to have his team, at the same time, we have got to come together on solutions in a bipartisan way. that is what this deal really reflects. >> senator john hoeven, great to have you here. appreciate your time and we will let you get back to work. you're making progress there. we like that.
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>> that's good. jodi arias case is back in court and what the convicted killer's attorney are doing to spare her the death penalty. then this. >> it's just hard thinking that somebody lost their life and there is nothing else that could be done about it. >> one of the jurors who decided george zimmerman was not guilty. speaking out for the first time and it's the interview that everybody is talking about today. did this woman come to the trial with a preconceived notions and should the prosecution have tried harder to get her stricken from this case? we will break it down with our legal analysts after this. is like hammering.
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a look at the stories topping the news now any moment. lawyers for convicted murderer jodi arias will head back into an arizona courtroom and trying to get the judge to throw out the jury's finding fooipedings that made her eligible for the
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death of her murdboyfriend in 2. in egypt more than 400 people under arrest in connection with deadly clashes monday night. seven people killed and 261 injured. those under arrest are mostly supporters of ousted president morsi and the muslim brotherhood. vladimir putin is telling snowden he should leave. snowden is seeking temporary aasylum. later today the mlb will make an announcement about their updated policy which includes a code of conduct and new process for filing complaints. i'm here at my house on thanksgiving day,
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wi drive a ford fusion. who is healthier, you or your car? i would say my car. probably the car. cause as you get older you start breaking down. i love my car. i want to take care of it. i have a bad wheel - i must say. my car is running quite well. keep your car healthy with the works. $29.95 or less after $10 mail-in rebate at your participating ford dealer. so you gotta take care of yourself? yes you do. you gotta take care of your baby? oh yeah! i think george zimmerman is
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a man whose heart was in the right place but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods and want to catch these people that he went above what he should have done but i think his heart was in the right place. it just went terribly wrong. >> heart in the right place. just went terribly wrong. that was juror number b-37 on cnn giving more insight into how the jury reached a not guilty verdict for george zimmerman. joining me is marshall hennington a jury consultant and founder of hennington and associates and joining the conversation is wendy murphy, a former prosecutor. now we are getting this insight into this juror, this one juror, b-37. your expertise is in picking juries. you say she didn't think race played a role in this. how do you react to that? does it make sense to you that
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this juror and five others would say this and the fact that race did not play a role when this man profiled this teen in a racial way describing him as the suspect of black youth? >> well, according to her statement, she indicated that race was not an important factor in reaching a decision. now is that is her prerogative with respect to the way she perceived the case and the evidence. my thought is we haven't heard from the rest of the jurors to see what their mindset was and until we actually hear from them, then it's very difficult to rush to judgment with respect to the decision that she made. >> wendy, interesting this juror said she found the lead investigator on the case detective chris serino credible when he was on the stand and he testified he thought george zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter. take a listen. >> when he testified that he
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found george zimmerman to be more or less an overall untruthful, did it make an impressive on you? >> it made a big impression on me. >> why? >> because he deals with this all the time. he deals with, you know, murder, robberies. he's in it all the time. and i think he has a knack to pick out who is lying and who is not lying. >> wendy, made a big impression on the jury there. just to remind everybody that happened at the end of serino's testimony on a long day there. the prosecution started up the next day trying to get that taken and struck from the record which later they were successful in doing but this was feathers to the wind. i mean, you can't get it back. >> it's interesting. on the one hand, i do think that she made a credible claim about how she didn't see race as the
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decisive factor. did i recoil when i heard her say it made a big impression on her that the lead investigator found george zimmerman credible. i've written a hundred briefs and appellate decisions regarding criminal justice and policy law. the one error you know is going to lead to reversal is if there is a conviction is when a witness testifies that they find another witness credible. that is so wrong. it's such a clear error of law that had he been convicted, that might have been the basis for reversal of the conviction and i don't understand why the prosecutor didn't scream and yell and hoot and holler right at that moment, you can't fix that error the next day! as much as i think the verdict was correct, that testimony that he thinks the defendant is credible way out of line, absolutely objectionable. where the hell was the prosecutor? why was that not objected to at the moment in happened? i don't know. >> there is something else that caught our ears last night and
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when juror b-37 was asked about which witness was most credible in her statute of limitations. ta -- estimation. take a listen. >> who do you find to be the most credible? >> the doctor and i don't know his name. >> the defense called? >> yes, yes. >> what about him? >> i thought he was awe inspiring. the experiences that he had had over in the war and i just never thought of anybody that could recognize somebody's voice yelling in like a terrible terror voice when he just previously a half hour ago, playing cards with him. >> this was the witness that the friend of george zimmerman who had had military experience? >> no. this was the defense -- >> the defense medical examiner? >> yeah. >> i want to invite into our conversation is gary kaz mere. a former new york city attorney. as you hear this, one thing to point out, the fact that she thought that the friend, john
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donnelly, was very credible and he is the zimmerman family/friend and also the guy that served in vietnam as a medic and testified that he believed it was george zimmerman's voice because over 40 years ago he was able to distinguish voices of his mates in combat crying out for help but that really resonated with her? >> yeah. i think what he said he has seen grown big men sound like little children in combat situations or high-stress situations. i assumed that resonated with her very much but i also think what is going on here, we have to take a look at the fact this is the type of jury you're going to get and where you're from. these are the type of juries that are more believable and chasing people who have guns and protecting their community a. because you have jurors who see -- who see mr. zimmerman and she said somebody who had a good heart but bad judgment. >> also talk to us about rachel
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jeantel. the juror flat out said that jeantel was not credible in her estimation. she felt sorry for her and in her thinking thought rachel was inadequate toward everyone because of her education and her communication skills. >> yeah. rachel was definitely a difficult witness. we do remember rachel but she is a 19-year-old child. we have to go back to the idea that race sometime play a role in this. youth here. you're talking about rachel is a 19-year-old kid and i think she came off very young, very, you know, reactary and intumpulsived it played on her. i didn't think the jury would like her. she wasn't as presentable. that being said it wasn't dismiscible of anybody. she was just trying to phone her boyfriend at the time. >> can i just say something? she was not credible and it had nothing to do with her education or her youth.
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she committed perjury. she admitted lying under oath and very disrespectful and announced one of the jurors was retarded and announced she wasn't coming back the next day to testify. she wasn't credible because the objective evidence showed she didn't deserve the jury's respect in general. i thought she was credible in terms of being herself but if ever a witness dismissed and commits to committing perjury and admitting to doing what she said she did and what a child, much less 19, in a court of law. >> was she on the phone with trayvon? was she on the phone when trayvon, the initial attack took place? >> what she heard, what she didn't hear. she lied under oath! >> is the issue material? >> she lied under oath about important facts. what she heard right before he died. that is important. she was not credible and it has nothing to do with her language or her age or her race. >> she heard trayvon say.
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>> she lied. >> what are you looking for and why are you following me? >> she was a horrible witness. >> that's true. >> she was a horrible witness except that she did seem authentic. i thought she came across as authentic. >> at the same time she may have been a horrible witness and they completely disbelieved her. zimmerman never took the stand and as a result of him following somebody he should not have been following killed that man. >> because he beat the hell out of him. you can't beat the hell out of someone who disrespects you. >> i want to give you the last word here, marshall. the last word on what your estimation is about rachel jeantel as the witness she was and being a key linchpin as to what the prosecution was trying to present in their case? >> first of all, it seems like you're almost presenting the miss jeantel like she was an expert witness. she was not an expert witness. she was a friend. she was very young and naive. effects she is going to support her friend. that is really not the issue here. i think that, regardless, this
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particular juror that apparently has also signed a book deal along with her attorney/husband has alternative motives for getting on this case. number one. number two, with respect to the decision that was rendered you did not hear this juror say one time that she supported anyone from the prosecution's case. there were no expert witnesses she mentioned that were credible and there were no friends that she mentioned that were credible. there was no one on the prosecution's team. in fact, she said that she disregarded the 911 calls with respect to mr. zimmerman's actions getting out of the car to chase down mr. trayvon martin. she also mentioned that with regard to the racial profiling issue was never an issue to begin with. what she said was that within the last few minutes, last four minutes, that is when he had a decision to make. mr. zimmerman had a decision to make in regard to if he was going to save his life or if he was going to allow this young
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man to attack him. and i think that is where she was emphasimanufacturemphasizin was in that particular amount of time, mr. zimmerman decided that he was going to save his life and it was self-defense and that it was a stand your ground rule and it plied and that is what she perceived to be the outcome of the case, exactly what her perspective was. >> guys, we have to leave it right there. it was a very compelling interview and we will wait to see if any of the other jurors step forward. we are hearing from one so far. thank you all very much for your insights. much appreciated. taking sexual assault investigations out of the chain of command in the military. the two tea party members who are now giving senator gillibrand conservative cover and help. also ahead, race. stereotypes in the death of trayvon martin. we will dig in the role that racial bias played in the night he was killed and in the trial of his admitted killer. [ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream
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senator kirsten gillibrand's uphill battles to remove the chain of command from military assault cases got a criminal dose of conservative fire pawer. rand paul and ted cruz have joined her forces and the ongoing push against the pentagon to create a new prosecution system for major military crimes. the pair announcing their support over an hour ago. >> everybody says -- sexual assault. why don't we, if it appears as if there is some deterrence to victims reporting the crime why don't we fix it? i see no reason not to fix it and i'm proud to be a number of the process if i can. >> the number of allies including great britain and israel and germany have implemented policies similar to this and the results in practice have been the reporting rates of increased. >> our effort now is to build a very strong bipartisan coalition that is going to end sexual assaul
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assaults. >> joining me is capitol hill correspondents kelly o'donnell. good to have you here. rand paul and ted krus addition brings kirsten gillibrand within ten votes of the majority. does that give her the fire power and conservative cover to move forward? >> thomas, there are three dozen senators who have signed their name to this legislation and it is important to have kind of a continued pressure. kirsten gillibrand has been working on this quite some time and have names like rand paul and ted cruz stepping forward. rand paul saying i don't see any reason why a conservative wouldn't support this, that is helpful. others believe the military brass does not believe this kind of a change should happen there is resistance there. some suggestion of taking different steps like not permitting military leaders to overturn a conviction, there's a long way to go yet, but this is getting attention and kirsten gillibrand has been doing the hard work of having private meetings and talking to her
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colleagues and making something happen to bring the pressure up. this would go forward when the senate deals with the defense authorization bill, so the funding for the pentagon and she is hoping to make this an amendment. it is one of the points along a long journey where people will say that might have been a day when momentum began to turn to give her even more push to get this through. >> inspiring to see unity across the aisle at this point. >> breaking out all over. >> we like it. must be the heat. i don't know. thanks, kelly. coming up later on andrea mitchell reports, senator gillibrand will join andrea. crest 3d white whitestrips go beyond where most toothpastes can reach, safely removing stains below the enamel surface to whiten as well as a $500 treatment. crest 3d white whitestrips.
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you don't believe race played a role in this case? >> i don't think it did. i think if -- if there was another person, spanish, white, asian, if they came in the same situation where trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. >> it was racial. let's be honest, racial. >> here we are two very
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different perceptions of the role that race played on the night that trayvon martin was killed. one of the jurors in the case rachel jeantel and one of the key witnesses a wave of activism centered around changing the type of racist culture many believe led to trayvon martin's death. joining me right now, justin francis. justin is a senior at queens high school for the sciences at york college here in new york. also joining me from minneapolis, is kyle dranmyrie, two-time national slam propoetry champion and who also goes by the stage name of guante. justin, you are the same age as trayvon martin. you wrote a very powerful op-ed saying the ruling in the trayvon martin case has seat precedent. no longer can minorities such as myself freely roam without being targeted and when we are targeted it will be justifiable under the law. the worst consequence of all of this is that i have to walk to church, to school and home every
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day knowing that that could be my last. for people out there that are watching this that may not understand what it feels like to have extra critical eyes on you and what it is like to be racially profiled as a young man, what is it like? >> well, i mean as black teenager, i already have this image, this perception that we're all -- we're raucous, we're dangerous, that we're threatening and that we're dangerous pretty much, right? and that people tend to want to stay away from us, we're trouble. as a black youth myself, the fact that i have to make conscious efforts to distance myself from that stereotype or might have to stay out of certain company or not go certain places, it is terrifying. >> kyle -- people may not recognize this but are you mixed race. you identify as white but you wrote a blog post titled an open letter to white people about trayvon martin. in that blog post you say if
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your are someone who avoided thinking about white privilege, the unearned advantages that white people benefit from because of how institutions are set up and how history has unfolded, now is a great time to unstick your head from the sand. if trayvon martin had had been whi white, he'd still be alav. what better real world example of white privilege is there? what would you say about people who might be living in denial, and to be able to put on the shoes of somebody else like a trayvon martin or justin? >> i think any time there is a national conversation about race and racism in this country, there are always kind of two groups of people. there are those who are saying, well, is it really about race? are you just playing the race card? like we don't know for sure what's going on. then other people are saying -- screaming at their tv, of course this is about race! i think it speaks to the fundamental two different universes that we live in this
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this country. there are people of color who are sharing their lived, real life experiences and telling their stories, then there are -- not all white many but many white people who are basically saying, nope, you're wrong, i know better than you. and i mean even taking racism out of the equation here, that's just you're a jerk if you say that. you know? this is something that really needs to change if we are actually going to make concrete progress in this country. >> justin, you also wrote in your op-ed touching on stop and frisk. that's something very controversial here in new york city. "the washington post" eugene robinson had a really powerful op-ed today. in part, says, "the assumption underlining their who-hum approach to the case was zimmerman are the right to defense self-but martin, young, male, black did not. the assumption was zimmerman feared for his life but martin, young, male, black, would not. if you wonder why americans feel
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so passionately about this case is we know our 17-year-old sons are boys, not men. does that resonate with you and again touching on how you said that you know you can't walk with certain company, that you don't want to be seen in certain places because of the assumptions that are then made about the person and the character that you are as a 17-year-old young black male. >> it really does. anyone who knows me knows that i'm not a violent person and once again that the perception that blacks are violent is what really led trayvon martin to his death, because zimmerman felt the need to respond to -- to respond to martin violent not -- not even violently, fatally -- with the gun on stand your grounds. because of what the article just said, i personally feel like one of my rights have been taken away, the right to self-defense because if i were to defend myself in a fatal situation the chance is the other person that is the other race person wouldn't be held responsible.
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>> you there an action plan, a list for white people in this country if they want to make a difference, what they can do. what is it that people out there -- that don't understand that they are born in a genetic lottery in this country of white and male and straight. i think that's trifecta of privilege in this country. what do they need to understand if that's not natural for them to recognize? >> so i think whenever we talk about white privilege, i mention in the piece people stick their heads in the sapd. it is really important first to just step back. if you are white person listening to this, it is not that complicated. white privilege doesn't say that you are a bad person or that are you to blame for everything that's wrong with the world. it doesn't say that all white people have it easy. all it says is that there are certain advantages that white people have and the flip side of that is there are certain disadvantages that people of color have. like mr. francis is talking about. i can walk down the street as
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someone who appears white and not be hassled by police. doesn't mean that white people never get hassled by police, but it says that statistically we are less likely to be hassled by police. and that plays out in so many other places, not just in our every day small-time situations. but in the criminal justice system, in the education system. if are you trying to get a loan from the bank, trying to buy a house, all of these things play into this relationship between people in this country. i think it is really, really important for white people in particular to understand that. >> gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. justin francis, really good to meet you and see you in person. kyle, great to have you on. thanks for your powerful thoughts. that's going to wrap things up for me today. i'll see you later -- i'm actually going on vacation so i'll see you in a couple of weeks but joining the show is going to be senator patrick leahy and senator john yarmuth.
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significant steps to end nuclear proliferation in the u.s. senate. it's tuesday, july 16th, and this is "now." score one for peace. the new clear option is off the table. >> i think everyone will be happy. everyone will not be, oh, man, we got everything we wanted. but i think it is going to be something that is good for the senate. it is a compromise, and i think we get what we want, and they get what they want. >> nearly an hour after majority leader harry reid announced a tentative compromise on the filibuster of presidential nominees, the senate has voted 71-29 to end debate on richard cordray, the president's nominee to head t

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