tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 17, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
is stand your ground a call to arms? let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews out in san francisco. let me start tonight with this. stand your ground. what's this law all about? is it a statement that you don't have to avoid trouble? is it a call to arms? and what part did it play in george zimmerman's behavior that tragic night? did it encourage him to pursue trayvon martin? was it because he had a gun and thought he had the law on his side? isn't it a fair question that none of this would have happened if this person had been unarmed? was there something in his thinking, zimmerman's about the law, something about the way he behaved when he pursued martin that resulted from this law that says stand your ground? let's get to the next round in
this debate. this public verdict on the trayvon martin tragedy. the battle over stand your ground. perry bacon is an msnbc contributor and political editor with the grio.com and radica jones is the assistant managing editor for "time" magazine. tell me about what you think is the reason why the attorney general, eric holder who is in a somewhat political position but also primarily in a public service position, why he would be speaking as he has come out of talking about the trial of george zimmerman, begin to talk about stand your ground, the law in florida? >> well, i think eric holder is in a unique position to talk about this. he comes from a personal perspective, he comes to it as the first african-american attorney general and he will also obviously brings a legal perspective to it. when we started reporting on the stand your ground laws in the background of this case last year when the case came to national prominence, we
discovered even some state attorneys in florida who are employed to uphold this law have issues with it. and it seems to me that will from that point forward, you know, from the point when it became clear there would be a trial, people have been paying attention to stand your ground laws. they've been becoming more informed about them. and it makes a lot of sense that holder would direct his attention there. >> i guess the question is, did the stand your ground law play a role in the jury room? even though it was not mentioned much in the trial, one of the zimmerman jurors known as b-37 says it played a role in the jury deliberations. in a statement to cnn the juror says quote, my prayers are with all those who have the influence and power to modify the laws that left me with no verdict option other than not guilty in order to remain within the instructions. this juror also said the group had been split on a verdict in some of their discussions with three jurors for acquittal, two for manslaughter, and one
leaning toward second degree murder. other jurors have distanced themselves since then from juror b-37 four of them put out a statement in response saying we ask you to remember that we are not public officials and did not invite this type of attention into our lives. we also wish to point out that the opinions of juror b-37 expressed on the anderson cooper show were not, were, her own and not in any way representative of the jurors listed below and it list the four of them. let me go to perry bacon on this to you and we'll go back and forth on this. the influence of that law because it seems to me you've got to separate two things here. focus on whether you believe the testimony of george zimmerman which was introduced through the police questioning of him and that was taped of that. or you don't. if you do, was there an option here to leave the situation that he was involved in that he was pinned down, did he have the option to walk away? in other words, i'm not sure you can get clarity here from this jury yet.
were they thinking he was telling the truth but he still had the option even if telling the truth to get away and avoid this situation or were they not believing him and if they weren't believing him, why did they acquit him? this is what's inconsistent in the jury decision. if what do you call it, stand your ground legislation really was influential here? i don't think it was because if it was, we'd have some clarity here. my thought. what's yours? >> i think you're right. my understanding is that the defense itself was did not invoke stand your ground. and i know jeb bush and some other republicans even at the time of the killing initially said that stand your ground really didn't apply here. i think when you talk about the politics of this though, one reason eric holder is talking about stand your ground laws is the administration would love to push some kind of broader proposals of getting rid of guns at a federal level because we know sandusky having a gun here was important here and maybe you shouldn't have had a gun. but they have had no success passing any gun control loss
federally. so part of the administration's view is there are 22 states that have stand your ground laws including florida, new hampshire and two other states where obama won in 2012. there's probably some room to get those laws repealed in those states. i think that's where you're hearing eric holder talk about them. >> let me go back to radica on this question. again, i want to get clarity here. what do you think was the relevance in your understanding of what happened in that jury room to the issue of stand your ground? >> my understanding from listening to that juror's testimony is that they really tried to isolate the moment of the struggle and the killing and if stand your ground played a role at all, again my understanding is that it may have been sort of the emboldening backdrop to this struggle. but they seem to want to isolate that moment of violence away from what motivated george zimmerman to get out of his car
and that is where you have a real gray area with this law. >> well, let me ask you about, but the self-defense part would have come in when he was believed according to the jury's decision, he was in danger of losing his life of serious bodily harm. that wasn't when the he left the car. his decision about using the gun came when, if you believe his testimony, when he was pinned down and being slammed into the sidewalk. if you believe his testimony. that's why i don't understand why this jury keeps saying there's an issue of law here when by that definition, regular self-defense would have worked. again, let me go back to perry on that. i think we've got a real problem with consistency in this verdict. >> the jurors have not been -- they can decide -- they have not been very clear about their rationale. i think we'll probably never get a full picture of what all six of them thought. we're getting sort of one at a time speaking. i guess we'll later on in a few weeks know how much of a role stand your ground played versus their interpretation of what
happened there versus what other people have talked to us about. i don't think we have a clear sense what they exactly think happened yet. >> let's go to attorney general eric holder. he has gone public now with a forceful denunciation of stand your ground laws. this is holder, the attorney general, speaking about the law at the naacp's annual convention just yesterday. >> it's time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and so dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods. these laws try to fix something that was never broken. there has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if and the if is important. if no safe retreat is available. it it is our collective obligation. we must stand our ground. >> let me go to perry and then radhika both answer the same question. it's a tough one. is it is this a smart political
focus for the attorney general? because it does allow him to give deliberation to the question of bringing a civil rights case against zimmerman but in the meantime, be active on this front while leaving the other question aside for a bit and maybe relinquishing the need for him to act on the other front if he acts aggressively enough on this stand your ground issue. perry? >> my understanding from legal experts it be pretty hard to prove the civil rights violation in this case. it is unlikely the doj will move forward on that issue. in that sense holder is taking the issue where he can. holder doesn't have any power on state laws. let's be clear. he can't get a florida stand your ground law repealed. it is a good way for him and i heard the white house today at the press briefing talked about the stand your ground idea, as well and to make a broader push to get rid of these laws. that's something they can do. while my suspicion is eventually will see the main legal recourse is through the martin family
filing a civil suit, not doj. >> radhika, your thoughts on these three issues, including the civil rights potential and the stand your ground politicking if you will. >> i think perry makes a good point. there's a bigger picture which is that the stand your ground policies like stop and frisk policies in new york, for example, and various other laws and policies end up having a disproportionate effect on the african-american community. holder is in a good position to talk about that and whether he can directly announce those laws and he can't as perry says, he can make people moral attuned to them and their consequences. i think that's a valuable move. >> just to be careful here, i know we have to be nuanced here. i grew up in philadelphia and i keep track of how they do things out there. michael nutter won the democratic primary for mayor by advocating stop and frisk and gaining his greatest support in the african-american community on that issue. so the idea that the african-american community as a group is against stop and frisk
wasn't held up, didn't seem to be the case in philly. >> i think that's true but it's a community issue and something we're seeing as we report on the story this week is that churches and black communities and other you know nonpolitical leaders are starting to think about the broader implications of this verdict and of attention to the stand your ground law and think, how can we will move forward from here to make our communities safer and lose fewer young black men to violence. it's a much broader. >> there are other reasons to stop and frisk besides ethnicity. i hope there is. it has to do with the behavior, situations after a gang killing, all kinds of things that a good police officer can handle effectively. thank you perry, thank you radhika. this is hot stuff. coming up, more evidence that elected republicans kept to push down but it may have worked. in washington today by the way
hearing on why we still need enforceable voting rights law. also, leave it to liz cheney to say the problem with senate republicans these days is that they're too willing to go along with democrats. you notice? her decision to run for the senate could put wyoming on the political warpath. and lindsay graham wants to boycott the olympics in russia next year if they grant snowden. and why people are angry with this picture on the rolling stone. i think i'm angry. and this is "hardball," the place for politics.
hillary clinton's talking about the zimmerman trial. here she is, she spoke yesterday in a stumplike speech to the delta sigma theta sorority. here's what she said about the death of trayvon martin. >> my prayers are with the martin family. and with every family who loves someone who is lost to violence. no mother, no father should ever have to fear for their child walking down a street in the united states of america. >> looking strong. hillary clinton there. we'll be right back after this. to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men.
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>> welcome back to "hardball." if you're a regular viewer, you've seen that clip before. pennsylvania house republican leader mike turzai back in june of 2012 admitting that republicans saw photo i.d. requirements as a way of oppressing obama voters and winning the state for romney. earlier this week, the pennsylvania republican party chairman in this case bragged that voter i.d. helped republicans shave some points off president obama's win last year. >> do you think all the attention drawn to i.d. affected last year's elections. >> i think a little bit. we probably had a better election. think about this. we cut obama by 5% which was big. a lot of people lost sight of that. he won. he beat mccain by 10% and romney by 5%. i think that probably voter i.d. helped a bit in that. >> in the second day of the trying of pennsylvania voter i.d. laws, an expert testified that photo i.d. requirements disproportionately hurt
democrats and minorities. there were 180 voter suppression bills in 41 states all introduced by republicans according to advancement project, a nonprofit civil rights organization. meanwhile the u.s. supreme court nullified me votes acts of 1965. in a hearing today on the hill, lawmakers argued the law is still necessary. judith brown and a.b. stoddard. judith, let's just go to the blatant stuff here. aren't you -- i know you're nonpartisan. aren't you stunned that a politician, a chairman of a party in a major state like
pennsylvania openly giggles the fact that he's got a law that looked like it was on the books until the courts set it aside that discouraged democrats and minorities in big cities from voting. he was thrilled it shaved half of obama's plurality off the ledger. >> the problem with that question is you asked if i'm stunned. no, i'm not stunned. they are playing our song again, chris. we've been talking about this for the last two years. the gop efforts to make sure certain groups cannot vote. making it harder for them to vote. we saw this admission right before the election. and now we have it again that someone has admitted that that's what this scheme is about. to target particular voters so they can't vote. an advancement is in court right now taking care of this case. here we have our experts saying over 680,000 already registered voters wouldn't meet the i.d. requirements. they knew what they were doing when they passed that bill. >> i know that the
african-american community is justified historically angry over the verdict down there over the weekend. just learning from it. in a learning position on the african-american experience. especially from friends of mine who never told me before how they've been stopped unjustifiably, have been humiliated for no reason at all except skin color and ethnicity. but i have to say since this is my job that politics matters too, not just the courts. if you want to affect laws, not just about voter i.d. but about stand your ground and things like that, you got to get control of the state legislatures or the other side is going to do what it feels like doing. a.b. stoddard, are you amazed watching these people so flagrantly admit they're doing it with the effect of helping their party screw the democrats and obama and minorities to boot. >> i really think if you look at their comments and if you look
at the demographic changes in many states throughout the nation but particularly in the south wit remains the last sort of republican strong hold where state legislatures because of the supreme court are now free. mostly republican controlled to do what they want to further restrict voting, i think this is long-term a very difficult issue for republicans and a good issue for the democrats. democrats are already making this an issue as a voter turnout mechanism. they will in 2014 and 2016. they're telling people they want to suppress your vote. get an i.d., get in line. make sure you get there. i think that republicans if they do act with this new sort of liberation from the court decision last month to further restrict voting in particularly in states in the south with the demographics changing because of african-americans and hispanic populations there are going to pay in the long-term by not
being able to bring those voters into the tent. it is in my opinion much harder to get the day off on election day, to get there if you're sick, pregnant, old, the weather's bad to transport yourself there and wait in line than it is to get an i.d. this is not something that you have to show i.d. to get into a lot of buildings. you have to show i.d. sometimes to use your credit club at sam's club, at costco. it's much harder to get there on election day and get your vote cast than it is to get a voter i.d. >> do you buy that or not? >> i don't buy that. i mean, look. we have plaintiffs in our case in pennsylvania and in wisconsin and in texas all whom have had a difficult time trying to get i.d. yeah, if you live in a big city, maybe you do have to use i.d. when you go into office buildings. not everyone's gone into big office buildings and getting on airplanes. a lot of elderly people have a hard time getting their birth certificate in order to get the i.d. this is a plan. and i agree that this is about race. this is about demographic shifts. this is about trying to have
their last stand to control and have power. and so at the end of the day, yes, politics does matter. but it's who you try to target and that's what's making it illegal. you know at the end of the day, election day is supposed to be equal. we're all supposed to have the same amount of power when we go into the voting booth. >> you know what, a.b., i think you have a point there because i think eventually we'll have to have i.d. cards down the road. this is the direction this is all going in. look how republicans in places like pennsylvania have tried to change the electoral college to go congressional district by congressional district rather than state by state. that's clearly intended to nullify the impact of the big city vote, the urban minority vote. because if you go by cb, in pennsylvania you've got 23 i mean 13-5. so clearly they did that even though obama carried the state as a whole you could argue because of minorities having a role to play. they know what they're doing. the same people pushing the i.d. laws are pushing the change in
the electoral college so that only the suburbans and rural voters seem to have the clout. >> well, chris, it comes as no surprise to you that political parties in 2013 are trying to hold and consolidate their power with whatever tools they have. look at the house of representatives where mitt romney won more congressional districts than president obama. but congressional democrats won more votes than those districts. those districts are very finely drawn to advantage the republican party. they have a virtual electoral lock on the house right now. there are not enough swing seats for democrats to compete because of the they were written. they're not representative of the entire country and the way the election turned out last november. but they're a very different republican party than what we see countrywide. it's not going to be a surprise that each party is going to use whatever tool they have available. i think long-term it is going to become more difficult for republicans particularly in the south to ignore changing demographics.
i think it is also hard to argue that you go to the ballot box and you're forced to show an i.d. when you're not forced to run a check for buying an assault weapon at a gun show. at the same time there are drivers, i mean, at motor vehicle departments they offer nondriver's i.d.s. they are required for a lot of. >> you have to get on the subway, go to the department of transportation. >> if you live in texas you have to drive for miles. >> it's harder to get on the voting booth on election night. than getting that i.d. >> ask people in texas who have to travel for miles and miles to go to a dmv office to get an i.d. not true. >> i do think the republicans are trying to diminish the vote of the african-american as a citizen take away their effective citizenship and i hold reince priebus the chairman of the national republican party personally responsible for this. he has not lifted a finger to stop this effort in the 41 states. thank you for all the information. up next, from impeachment to immortality, bill clinton gets the ultimate washington honor.
he gets to become a building. and be sure to catch our final edition of "the chris matthews show" this weekend. i hate to see it go, but join me with 17 of our favorite panelists as we address the big question race in america's future. and also celebrate 11 great years on the air with a champagne toast, if you will. plus watch as my guests turn the tables and ask me all the questions this sunday. i'll have some last thoughts as we close out what i think has been a great run. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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michael jackson and madonna over its history should have anticipated the visceral rage this choice would make and it will continue to. just take a look at the side by side of tsarnaev with the other two rolling stone covers. the big question is why is the magazine elevating him to rock star status? a good question. the great mayor of boston called the cover a disgrace and several news stands and pharmacies have decided not to sell it. cvs explaining music and terrorism don't mix. got to hand it to cvs on that one. on a more positive note, nelson mandela turns 95 tomorrow. the milestone will be celebrated tomorrow night in times square with an encore presentation of "the power of words," a video installation that will simultaneously appear on the many big screen billboards that make the busy thoroughfare so famous. the attention-grabbing exhibit which was first displayed back in april features animations of
mandela's own words. here's his grandson explaining the intention of the project. >> the peace represents my grand dad's words throughout his life and we've kind of correlated and created a really unique speech which will play out over a number of screens and will hopefully transform some of the values that i think my grand dad tried to carry throughout his life. >> what a great opportunity to call nelson mandela your grand dad. wow. the ad space was is amongst the most expensive in this country was donated by the times square advertising coalition. the video was produced in part by robert de niro's tribeca film institute. up next, should kids be required to go to school? one utah lawmaker doesn't seem to think so. republican state senator aaron osmond has come out against compulsory education in the state claiming that mandatory education causes some to shirk parental responsibility.
he explained his thinking in an op-ed. quote, some parents completely disengage themselves from overseeing and ensure the education of their children. some parents act as if the responsibility to educate and even compare care for their children. as an opportunity and not a requirement, the superintendent of his school district dr. brian bowles disagreed. quote, i don't think that parents wake up in the morning and send kids to school because they're worried about getting a citation. they feel that is the best for their kids. the public system there happens to be the lowest funded in the entire country. finally, from the impeachment to immortality. epa washington headquarters there on pennsylvania avenue has been renamed for former president bill clinton at a ceremony just today. the name change means that the environmental friendly 42nd president will join the ranks of ronald reagan, dwight eisenhower, and teddy roosevelt to name a few to have buildings named after them.
wake up tomorrow as a building, that means you made it. up next, liz cheney is challenging a fellow republican incumbent. what happened to the 11th commandment of ronald reagan? we now know how starting wars is something that runs in the cheney family. they like wars. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
and queen elizabeth anxiously awaiting the birth of the royal baby. she would like the bundle of joy to arrive soon because she's going on holiday. now back to "hardball." i am running for the united states senate because i believe deeply in the values that have made our state and our nation great. i am running because i believe it is necessary for a new generation of leaders to step up to the plate. i'm running because i know as a mother and a patriot we can no longer afford simply to go along to get along. we can't continue business as usual in washington. i'm running because i know we are taxed more than enough already. i am running because i know wyoming needs a strong voice in washington. someone who knows how to get things done and isn't afraid to fight for what's right.
i will never compromise when our freedom is at stake. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was the daughter of former vice president dick cheney. liz cheney violating reagan's 11th commandment thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow republican. hitting mark enzi for being part of the old guard. that refers to the deal enzi helped broker on health care in 2009. enzi who has a 92% lifetime rating from the american conservative union said he thought he and liz were friends and had this to say to nbc's kelly o'donnell yesterday. >> she said that if i ran, she wasn't going to run but obviously that wasn't correct. >> did she call you, sir? >> no, well, he called me a long time ago and said she was considering it. >> what's your relationship with her. >> i thought we were friends. >> cheney's trying to turn enzi into the newest version of robert bennett. and richard lugar. conservative senators who were primaried and beaten to the right.
alan simpson, the outspoken former wyoming senator a personal friend of both the cheney family and senator enzi had this to say in the "new york times." quote, it's a disaster. a divisive ugly situation. all it does is open the door for the democrats for 20 years. yesterday simpson released a statement saying he cares both for liz cheney and mike enzi and has nothing more to say about this. the state's lone member of the house of representatives cynthia loomis called cheney the shiny new pony in politics. and called her poor form. >> i don't think she's going about it the right way. in the instance where you have a three-term sitting u.s. senator who has done nothing to merit a primary challenge and you challenge that person without the courtesy of calling them just before you make an
announcement, it's just not the best way to start a campaign. i think it's bad form. >> joining me now to discuss all this is howard fineman and david corn. let me ask you a simple question. what is her connection to wyoming. she went to high school in virginia. she went to college in colorado. spent all of her life back here in washington. usually you know a person where they went to high school. that's where you're from. no connection to the state except her father's last name. what's dick cheney up to here? is this some effort to create a satellite of his own political career? what's he up to? >> well there are a couple things there. first of all the connection is a family connection that goes back to the mid-19th century. that's true. liz cheney chose to live in jackson hole wyoming which is a little bit like saying i'm going to go live in the hamptons and understand the heart beat of new york state. i mean, jackson hole is not
exactly casper. it's not even laramie. so there's that. and i think the cheney family is busy trying to resurrect itself to reclaim its reputation. as indeed on a parallel track, george w. bush has been. these are people who are determined. these are fish constantly swimming upstream. it's in their nature. and the cheneys are trying to establish a new generation. and i think these days, people mix the prominence of politics with the prominence of the media. i think liz cheney's desire is to get back here to washington as a united states senator and she's willing to violate all the rules of life in wyoming to do it. >> you know, you've got spitzer and weiner running after their personal embarrassments and they're largely personal, but they didn't have a war with all the casualties of that war on their conscience. cheney never apologized for iraq and the dishonesty and nonsense
that led to the argument, the brilliant propaganda campaign he marshalled to get in that war and to stay in that war. i mean, they don't apologize for that. they don't say they made a mistake. they don't say anything. they just want more it seems to me. your thoughts, david. give me more. >> well, this is the opposite of an apology. and as you know, because you read it in the book that i did with mike isikoff hubris, there's a scene in which dick cheney sits around with all these sort of neo-con academics and friends and they say, don't worry, dick. history will absolve you and prove that you were right about iraq and everything else. and i think this is sort of a short cut to get to that point. to get the cheney name associated with victory, not with tragedy in iraq and liz cheney, i mean, she is more cheney than cheney. i mean, in terms of what she's said during the iraq years and what she's been doing ever since. i think while a lot of neo-cons
and a lot of conservatives have actually adopted somewhat more moderate or more measured positions, she is out there still playing the birther card against the president. she he had this tweet a few months ago saying the president's more interested in disarming americans than disarming al qaeda. this is the guy who bumped osama bin laden. she's still like back in 2003. but completely unrepenttant. >> you know cheneys remind me of lynn and dick, they remind me of superman in a movie as played by marlon brando and eva marie saint. packing their kid in a little missile to send him off to america or somewhere. they're like they packed her into this little missile and sending her off to wyoming to continue the life form. >> i think, chris, i think while i do think this has to do with the family and don't forget, that liz cheney was always and has always been since the iraq
war became such a deep and wound and controversy in american life, she's always been her dad's strongest public defender. she helped him on his book. she is loyal, fiercely loyal and that's part of the equation. but i think she wants to be a figure in her own right. she probably will look -- >> can she be a terry partier. >> she's not she's not. she's not, chris. >> she's offering herself up as a tea partier. >> that's the thing here. it's not quite like dig lugar who was an establishment figure. he was. it's not like bob bennett who had an easy going manner to him and liked the idea of making deals. mike enzi is pretty much with a couple of exceptions pretty much a down the line tough wyoming conservative and he's well liked there. and i know cynthia lummis well. and i can tell, by the way, she would like to run for that senate seat eventually but had the good grace not to run over mike enzi to do it. there are less than 600,000 people in wyoming.
i've spent a fair amount of time there. i don't think they're going to like it. i don't think the tea party is going to like it. as a matter of fact, rand paul one of the leaders of the movement immediately backed enzi, immediately denounced liz cheney because don't forget, it was cheney and the whole neo-con establishment who tried to prevent rand paul from get ing that seat in kentucky and backed the establishment figure there. >> howard, you're so smart as you always are in small states like south dakota or wyoming, personal civility, the way you behave, your treatment of other people people is the key to politics. i use as an example john thune who didn't complain about losing a questionable can be election to tim johnson. because he handled it like a gentleman, he was elected heavily against daschle. i think you're right. it's about form. it's about being a good person, close-up where people are watching you. she hasn't passed that test. >> if i thought the tea party was going to back her, it would be a different equation.
she doesn't fit the tea party mold and enzi doesn't fit the victim of the tea party. >> more time for you next time, david corn. thank you, sir. i'm sorry. thanks, howard. up next, lindsey graham says the united states should consider boycotting the winter olympics in russia next year if putin grants asylum to edward snowden. what an absurd idea. it's yet another example how much the republicans, i don't know what they miss. anyway, this is "hardball," the place for politics. she's always been able to brighten your day.
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hillary clinton's keeping herself in the news as she talks about trayvon martin and the voting rights act. her poll numbers are looking good too in states that matter in 2016. let's look the at the scoreboard. in the key swing state of virginia where hillary clinton has a five-point lead over new jersey governor christie according to a new poll. clinton 45, christie 40. against rand paul the republican with the hot hand right now on the right certainly, not even a
we warned mr. snowden any action by him could cause damage to russian/american relations is unacceptable to us. the tone was harsher from senator lindsey graham. who said america should consider boycotting the olympic games next year. >> i love the olympics, but i don't like what the russian government is doing. >> that suggestion was rebuked by many people, including the u.s. olympic committee spokesman who tweeted, boycotts don't work in the '80s. simon marks let me hear from him, i work for jimmy carter as a speech writer. i don't think i liked it, i didn't say at the time i was loyal. i think once you start skipping owe limb bigs because you don't like politics you ruin the olympic games.
>> i think there's truth to that, chris. i would say, nobody thinks realistically the united states is going to boycott the olympics. the mere threat to do it, the mere suggestion that it might become a debating point in the united states does hit vladimir putin in a place where it hurts. he has poured millions of dollars into that city in southern russia to get things ready for the olympic games. it was a city that needed millions of dollars in development. and many of those business contracts you'll be stunned to discover have gone to people close to vladimir putin. the idea that there might be some scrutiny over u.s. participation in the games may give vladimir putin, may give him some pause for thought. >> one thing's clear, snowden still has many supporters in the united states. former new hampshire senator, gordon humphries lobbying sweden to give snowden asylum. america has done wrong in this instance.
stand up to her, grant edward snowden asylum. you will do the people of the united states a great favor to resist the government at this moment. half of the country thinks snowden was a whistle blower. only 34% think of him as a tratior. we carefully studied these numbers, they're pretty consistent across party lines. it's so fascinating to look at the numbers. it has nothing to do with ideology or else it's offset. republicans and democrats are about the same proportion in support of him as a whistle blower, as a trader. both parties looking at it in the same way. so fascinating. >> it is fascinating. it's also fascinating to look at the way in which he's perceived internationally. there's no question those numbers would be reflected in international public opinion as well. what an extraordinary thing to see the president of the united states barack obama traveling to south africa just a couple weeks
ago and facing protests there in part because of this international perception that he has enlarged the security apparatus in the country. that perception boosted by the documents that edward snowden has revealed. there's no doubt that those revelations have made life much harder on the world stage for the president. >> what do you make of more to come? >> well -- >> that snowden has a lot more in his quiver, that he could shoot off. >> the obama administration has said they're very concerned about what else he has in his quiver, that he could as the president put it, dribble out over the course of the next few weeks or maybe months. even when he's granted, should he be granted temporary asylum by the russians, one of the questions that i think is fascinating at the moment is how much do the russians know about what he's got. he spent the best part of three weeks at that airport in moscow, it begs the belief that russian fsb to the kgb hasn't been inquisitive about what is on
those four laptops that he's purportedly traveling with. and certainly where he granted temporary asylum in russia, they would be even more eager to get their hands on that material. >> it reminds me the time they landed in red square. after all the security in the soviet union and the guy that flew his plane into the white house at the time. everyone says how impregnable they are. we'll be right back after this. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk.
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i think the hearings this week in pennsylvania tell a huge story. they show how republicans view voter suppression as their ticket to success. you have a party chairman saying that merely the attention given to a voter photo i.d. requirement, even one the court would set aside cut in half president obama's margin of victory in this state. 41 states had voter suppression bills introduced last year, do you think people are going to forget which party wanted them to be shut out from their democratic rights? do you think parents will be telling their teenaged children, to remember who wants them to vote and who doesn't? this effort by the republican party across the country counts -- is an assault on black america that is historic, it's deliberate. it's unforgettable, and you could say unforgivable.
keep your eye on this one. and that's hardball for now, thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. tonight on all in in the wake of the zimmerman verdict. the movement against stand your ground laws is gaining momentum. the right wing and the nra are doubling down on it. reverend al sharpton will be my guest coming up. supreme court may have left it for dead, but that has spawned a real effort in congress to save it. senator amy klobuchar will be here to give us the latest. mike enzi of wyoming thought he was friends with the cheney family. then again, so did that guy who got shot in the pace. we begin tonight four days since the jury declared george zimmerman not guilty with an american right wing working