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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 30, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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week. they have that before them and they can do that right now. if they do that we will agree to work with republicans on funding for the government for the remainder of the fiscal year. so i propose that the house passes our clean cr cr, we'll s pass funding for the year. that's it. this deal they're pulling. they have a rule over there that says that they want to go to conference on the c.r. madam president, that closes government. they want to close government. this is all a subterfuge to satisfy the tea party-driven republicans. and this very, very strange agenda that is so hurtful to the american people. so i want everyone to hear what i just said.
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we will not go to conference until we get a clean cr. the government closes. what benefit do we have from that? we have in two weeks, we have the government is not only going on close down. we're going to lose the credit rating. they're talking now about not raising the debt ceiling. >> madam president, i sort of feel sorry for speaker boehner. he has this hard right tea party group that is adamant about shutting the government down. many of them talked about shutting the government down in their 2010 campaigns. there are clips where they go to the audience. we will shut the government down if we win back the house. and the audience of tea party faithful cheers.
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and here we are. and now speaker boehner, who is not been strong enough, frankly, to stand up to the tea party, realizes he is in a real dilemma. he wants to shut the government down and the american people cone want that. cnn came out with a poll today. what should we do? end obamacare or keep the government going? 60%, keep the government going. only 34, i believe, end obamacare. the closer we get to this faithful hour. we're only an hour away from a government shutdown. the more people will understand what the republicans have done. so there's only really one answer. that is for the house to pass the clean c.r. bill that we have sent them. that they have. they keep coming up with new
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diversions. they send us a message that says this. they send as you message that says that. some of it is related to obamacare. some of it is related to contraception. and now they say, well, we want to go to conference. well, as the leader said, we want to resolve issues. we would like to get a nice omnibus for the whole year. we realize we have to do that with both houses. but not with a gun to everybody's head. let's go to conference? while they shut down the government? and hurried millions of innocent people? speaker boehner isn't going to get away with this subterfuge as he hasn't gotten away with the previous ones. people will see through it. it is a way to take the focus off what they really are doing,
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shutting the government down, and trying to get people to follow the diversion. this time let's go to conference. again, nothing wrong with the conference. but not, absolutely not when they're shutting the government down in an hour. all the talking in conference will not help the federal worker who is not getting a paycheck. the highway construction worker who uses federal funds to build that highway. the veteran who is waiting for a disability claim. conference isn't going to solve that. there is one way to solve it. pass the clean c.r. and then a conference that talks about the issues for the whole year, resolves funding, makes sense. but only after they pass our clean c.r. bill. so speaker boehner, no more
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gains. when the final hours, pass the clean c.r. don't send us another one of these little gizmos that is simply meant to take attention off the fact that you don't have the courage to keep the government funded. pass the clean c.r. and then we can talk about conference. yield the floor. >> madam president. >> the assistant majority leader? >> madam president, the statement made earlier is worthy of note. in less than an hour, the government of the united states of america will close. what it means is that agencies all across -- >> good evening. i'm chris hayes. we are less than one hour away from the government shutdown. as i speak to you right now, the national is in session on the floor. you see dick turbin of illinois speaking. you just saw harry reid and chuck schumer of new york, also part of the senate democratic leadership. if you are watching and could not because theed by the clean c.r. and the conference committee and the conferrees, do
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not worry. we'll explain it all. at this hour, here's where we stand. the senate has rejected the latest stunt from the house. that included a one-year delay in the individual mandate of affordable care act and also, a bizarre provision that would essentially take health care funding away from congressional staff members. very, very weird little twist. that would end up just messing up the lives of hundreds of staff members that work on capitol hill. the senate said no way. we want a clean c.r. that bounced back to the house and the house in a strange unexpected procedural turn has decided to do this. they have decided to send the continuing resolution to a conference committee. that might seem normal. that might not seem strange. here's why it is strange. six months ago the united states senate passed a budget. for six months they have been demanding, asking, pleading with
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john bainer to appoint conferrees so they can work the through the difference. the house representatives have said no for six months, the tea party caucus and the senate has said we have no interest in that because we do not trust the process. with one hour to go, the house of representatives has bded now after six months of saying no to a conference committee, with the government about to shut down, with checks not going to roll out and people being furloughed and staff members facing uncertainty, right now at 11:07 eastern time, now would be a precisely wonderful time to return to regular order and appoint conferrees for a long drawn out bureaucratic process to negotiate differences taken with two bills for a six-week continuing resolution. that's where we stand right now. if that sounds ridiculous, you are correct. it is ridiculous. joining me for more on this, cnbc contributor.
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you are smiling, robert. that's how i see it from my perspective. tell me what the house republican leadership it'sing about this. >> this is a very surprising gambit at the 11th hour. the government prepares to shut down. here's why it happened. when john boehner was trying to get the vote on this latest c.r. tonight, he was struggling on the house floor. there was a mine revolt from some moderates and conservatives were also kind of tired of the whole process. so he wasn't able to come at midnight with another c.y. so they decided to go with a conference and tut blame on harry reid's shoulders. >> i want to walk through how this, what the demands made by the house were. the bills they passed. first it was getting, defunding obamacare. then it was defunding it for a year. or delaying it for a area. all of it for a year. then it was delaying the individual mandate. and now that's where things ended up.
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you see they ratchet it back and back and back each time which makes me think, they are not gaining political strength or momentum. they are losing it. >> that's very true. as you see speaker boehner ratcheting up his offers time after time after time, you see resistance within the house gop to deal with the reality of divided government. if democrats control the senate and the white house, as much as they want to defunneled obamacare, the opportunities to do that are very small at this time. but there is a reluctance to accept that reality in the gop so boehner is almost forced into this position to go to conference and hope for the best. >> it has been a fascinating day in the house, the republican caucus. most of what i know, i know from reading you and your why bureau members reporting. are folks in the caucus walking off capitol hill, all right, we're doing it. let's have this fight. the american people are going to
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rally to us. or are they walking out saying this is a disaster in the making or somewhere in between two in. >> i'm standing here in the office building. i said you know a shutdown is happening. of course it's happening. what do you really feel about it? these are some of rah-rah conservatives. now a lot of these members elected in 2010, 2012, i think they're a little nervous. they haven't been through a shutdown before. they're not sure of the political pain that's coming. they're crossing their fingers that reid will get some blame but they're not sure how it will unfold. >> part of the problem, i think this shows the remove between the house leadership and the, outside the bubble. no one knows anything about conference committees, c.r.s, clean c.r.s. they'll go to the american people and say we appointed conferrees. everyone understands there is
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one group of people that initiated this fight because they want to defund obamacare. it is hard to not see the american people giving them blame. >> they acknowledge that privately. they're almost retreating into this legislative procedural minuta. to go to a bipartisan, bicam ral panel. that's all true. that's what is happening. harry reid doesn't want to do it. does that sell nationally? >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> joining me now, senator bernie sanders, a member of the senate budget committee. well, senator sanders, here we are on the precipice of a government shutdown and we have been begin the opportunity to return to regular order. you must be happy. >> no doubt. i was surprise that had congress received a 10% favorability. surprise that had it was that high. the american people are profoundly disgusted. and what they're disgusted about
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is this country faces enormous problems, as you well know. middle class disappearing, poverty at an all time high. the gap between the very, very rich and everybody else going wide. real unemployment at 14%. and here you have a handful of right wing extremists who are trying to annul, do away with the election results of a year ago. they have not quite caught on that obama won by 5 million votes. they lost two seats in the senate. they lost some seats in the house them say, oh, that really opportunity matter. we are going to do what we want to do. if we can't do it, you know what? tough luck for millions of americans who need government services. tough luck to 800,000 federal employees who are trying to support their families. that is an absolute outrage. and it is a precedence, a precedent for blackmail that we cannot allow to happen. >> you had a long and
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illustrious career in the house of representatives before moving to the senate. and i think you're someone who has a very strong world view and vision and believes very deeply in a number of things that aren't necessarily the kinds of things that people across the aisle believed in. i think you're a very progressive voice. if you were to mapt out, you would be at one end of the bell curve of that. did it ever occur to you as a sit go house member to pull off these kinds of tactics? is this the kind of thing that you would have ever attempted to do? >> no. look. i'm an advocate of a single payer national health care system. it never occurred to me to bring down the united states government and cause pain for millions of workers because i can't get my way knowing that my view is in the minority. the job when you're in the minority is try to become the majority. that's the kind of democratic system we grew up in.
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it is not holding the country hostage. >> now we're going into a shutdown. i think you've been through some shutdowns before. i believe you were in congress during the last shutdown. what is your anticipation? there is a concern that the public will blame republicans. given that so much of that house caulk us is insulated from an electorate, are you confident that pressure will play out in the way people are predicting? >> well, i think it has a lot to do with how those of us in the democratic caucus, i'm an independent, play this out. i think it is just enormously important that the american people, by the way, chris, understand that this debate is not just about obamacare. what this debate is about is the dream of repealing virtually
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every major piece of legislation passed in the last 80 years. and if we can make the american people understand that it is not just obamacare. these guys want to abolish the minimum wage. they want to end social security. they want to do away with medicare as we know it. this is an extreme right wing agenda. and if they get away with what they're trying to do now in two weeks, they'll be back with a debt ceiling, threaten the financial stability of the entire world unless they get more. so i think what has to happen tonight, and in the coming week, the majority in the congress has to stand up. that is senate, the president has to be strong. and the american people have got to be strong. and explain to a minority here in washington they cannot dictate policy. >> senator sanders on the precedent that would be set here. thank you for your time tonight. we'll be keeping an eye on
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shutdown cam. we are minutes away from the shutdown deadline. before that, a quick note. the president just signed a piece of legislation to pay our military act that will make sure the members of the military are paid during the shutdown and to talk about what this shutdown would look like, who it will affect and what it might be. i w. make my mark with pride. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars.
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no more mandate that you have to buy insurance that you can't afford. no more mandate for an exemption. those are the only two issues here. all the senate has to do is say yes and the government is funded tomorrow. >> house speaker john boehner laying out his demands, including demanding what would effectively be a very significant paycut for his staff. some of whom make $29,000 a year. very nice of him to do that. joining me, ezra klein, columnist. i have to say of everything that has happened, it is the vitter amendment that is driving me the craziest. it feels like kicking the dog. it feels like people are frustrated and angry and they don't have a way of channelling that because there's a certain impotence they have. what they decided to do was
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target one small group, just the staff members of congress, so they can stick it to them. hold that thought. nancy pelosi is addressing reporters at this moment. take a listen. >> i would like to say good evening but it isn't a very good one. as we gather right here near statueary hall, i'm reminded of president washington when he was leaving office, cautioned against political parties that were at war with their own government. and here we are tonight. you know what they are manning to do. if you don't, chris who is the ranking member on the budget committee for the house democrats, and has led us with great -- based on values and to reduce the deficit and create jobs, i'm going on yield to chris because he will give perspective to what is happening tonight and why it is not a good evening.
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>> thank you, madam leaders. the leader said we're gathers at a very sad point in the history of this congress. because what the house republicans are doing right now is voting for a government shutdown. we have 45 minutes to go. and instead of passing the bill already adopted by the senate, which would guarantee we keep the government open, they're rejecting that. and instead, saying that they want to go to conference. with 45 minutes left which is a recipe for shutting down the government. now, i just want everybody to be clear on one thing. we have been pressing our republican colleagues to negotiate on the budget since last march. the house passed the budget. and the national passed the budget. you may remember our colleagues making a big deal about no
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budget, no path. well, it turns out they weren't serious about getting a federal budget. we did get a house budget. we did get a senate budget. but no federal budget. so why don't we have a budget? because the law requires that by april 15th, you have negotiators between the house and the senate, meet and work out these differences. try to make compromises for the greater good. they refused to do that. i want to call your attention to a resolution that we introduced in the house, kratss, way back in april. april 23rd. resolution, very simple. expressing the sense of the house of representatives that the speaker should immediately request a conference to appoint conferrees to complete work on a fiscal year 2014 budget resolution with the united states senate. that's what we introduced way back in april. what did the speaker do?
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he said no. he refused to appoint anybody to negotiate on the budget. we had votes calling upon the house. calling upon the speaker to appoint budget negotiators. they voted no. they voted to deny the house an opportunity to appoint budget conferrees. what happened in the senate? i believe at least 15 times, 18 times. 18 times. the majority leader harry reid and the budget chairman patty murray asked to appoint conferrees to work out budget issues and 18 time, republicans led by people like senator lee said no. they blocked them. i would point out that senator mccain at the time said it was, quote, insane for republicans to be blocking a negotiation on the budget since they spent all of
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last year calling upon the senate to have a budget. now, the speaker of the house earlier this year said, he didn't want to engage anybody with the white house negotiations. that he wanted to go through the regular order. the regular order means appointing budget negotiators. so the reason we're here today is that the speaker of the house refused to name budget negotiators. in the senate, republicans blocked budget negotiations. why would they do that? because you have to compromise when you go to a budget negotiation. they didn't want to do that. so instead we have a very deliberate, very calculated strategy. not to go through the negotiations but to wait until the government is on the precipice of shutdown. because then they figure they don't have to compromise. they can just demand that democrats in the congress adopt their radical propositions.
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getting rid of the affordable care act. and they've threatened that the government will no longer pay its bills as their next step. they believe that way -- >> that's chris van hollen of maryland who has joined me earlier tonight, sort of explaining some of the kind of context to this whole thing, explaining that basically the normal budget process has been abandoned and broken for months, if not years now. >> it's been broken for a very long time. so republicans were for a conference committee before they were against one before they were once again for one. what i would say is take a step back. recognize that the republican party's position on this is so completely collapsed. it has just devolved into a mess of abstract proceduralism. it used to be they wanted to defund obamacare or delay the individual mandate or kick the dog is that take a big paycut for members of congress and their staff. what they want now, what they're
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arguing for is the negotiations in this completely bizarre concept of a conference committee in regular order at a time when you have shut down the government. it is a very strange message and it speaks to how far they have had to retreat. they're not even arguing for anything anymore. >> yeah. when the regular order -- when i saw on twitter -- >> i made you crack. >> when i saw on twitter, everybody is watching it kraep toward the deadline. they're going on ping back and forth. drum roll and the answer is -- appoint conferrees to the conference committee. are you kidding me? >> this is what do you in washington when you don't know what else to do. you appoint a committee. for the record, we've done this for years. now we have the conference committee? and what? it will happen during a shutdown? it really does not make a ton of
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sense. >> tell me what you think of this. my sense of this is that actually, in a weird way, the longer the shutdown goes, if this happens in the next 33 minutes, it appears it will, the longer that goes, the better the odds of avoiding a real nasty situation. some kind of negotiated settlement comes out with a raise to the debt ceiling as well. >> i agree with that. i want to say, 33 minutes from now also obamacare starts. which i can't believe that's not the top story. >> to be clear, shutting down government won't stop that. >> it overshadows whatever glitches they might have taken note of. i think this is an important point. i've been very concerned about the debt ceiling. the shutdown will come out with a debt limit increase. what has happened is that republicans have burned through all the negotiating positions. what boehner wanted to do was save delaying obamacare for the debt ceiling.
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he wanted to just pass a clean funding bill. then he lost to ted cruz. he wanted to do the deif you saiding thing. then pass the clean funding bill. he felt what they would do, they would go to the debt ceiling where they have more leverage, argue for defunding obamacare and retreat to deif you saiding the individual mandate. it would sound good but really, really harm the law. they burned through those positions today in one day. which is not what boehner wanted to do. so it is not plausible to come back and say we couldn't face down a government shutdown to do the individual mandate or the delay. we'll be able to face down the much more economic storm of a debt ceiling breach in order to do the same thing. >> you have me wondering if there is a negotiating analog in which they'll retreat to demanding a public option, retreat to commanding single payer medicare for all. they're throwing it so much in reverse. raze klein, thank you for saying
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up. the president took to twitter a few hours ago telling congress to do the right thing and pass a budget tonight. they have about 30 minutes to go. we're staying with you live as the clock ticks down. joinint
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from wisconsin and member of the house budget committee. i want to throw some numbers at you. as we talk with the way out of
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this being a clean cr. meaning the funding levels that have been agreed to by the senate without these provisions that would try to destroy obamacare or screw over congressional staff. here is the 2014 discretionary funding ask in president obama's original budget. $1.2 trillion. the ask for that am of money in the ryan budget is $967 billion. and what you will see is that the current level of funding in the clean cr that democrats are voting for and calling for as a solution is much, much, much, much closer to the 2014 ryan budget that was of course the bet for more democrats and progressives anywhere. do you think people understand that? >> no. in fact, i feel like i serve in the nation's largest kindergarten. the only thing is the kindergarteners here have access to our checkbook. it is ridiculous that we're at
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less than a half-hour lext after 45, 46 time of trying to get rid of the affordable care action, they'll shut the government down. the number, i think, they're getting something that goes through mid-november that the senate is offering up them still can't accept success. and it is really, really frustrating for those of us had a think we should get things done. six months ago when we asked the speaker to appoint conferees to have a budget, he habit done it. now a half-hour left, it is their great idea. >> what do you say to your constituents when you have to explain this? >> it's tough. i tell them i'm being held hostage except by a bunch of kindergartners in the tea party and they're holding all of us hostage. as long as they allow themselves to be held hostage, this is the exact result we have. it is very frustrating. in the end they won't win on the affordable care act. we need to have a national
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budget so the hold there was breaths will make all of us sick. >> do you think there's any hope that the political pressure that can be brought to bear over the the next few days, if it goes the next few days, that they are not soics-related from that political pressure but that won't affect them either? >> they're going to feel it. they're small business owners. i'm a small business owner the last 25 years, can't get any new loans, that will affect people. 800,000 federal employees are all furloughed and not getting any income. that will affect them. when people feel the real effects of this and realize it was all for nothing because they were holding their breath like children, the bottom -- i don't see their way out of this and this is be a way out. just one more maneuver by a bunch of children who somehow got access to the keys. and again, it is really hard to explain it back home.
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it makes no sense. >> some wisdom at this hour 24 minutes before shutdown. thank you so much. we have a lot more coming up including the shutdown cam and the countdown and the one and only joy reed. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is. [ inhales deeply ]
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you're about to shut down the government. you can get up here and say over and over and over and over again, we don't want to shut down the government. but your actions, mr. speak he, their actions belie their words. >> congressman steny hoyer catching himself in the moment of the breaking of the comedy of that body. one of the democratic leaders wondering why we hear one thing about a government shutdown while doing the exact opposite. unfortunately this is not an isolated incident. seemingly every time country gets pushed to the brink, republicans are doing a lot of things while saying the exact
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what's your policy? ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] build anything with the new toyota tundra. toyota. let's go places. with just 15 minutes to go before a government shutdown, and the shutdown cam over here, joining me now, joe reed. managing editor, and michael,
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senior national corn for "time" magazine. you covered the 2011 shutdown. i'm curious what you think is different about, well, not the shutdown. what you think is different about that fight and this one. >> nothing. i mean it's really -- this is the same. the same as the lame duck fight in 2010 and the first fight over a government shutdown in 2011. the default fight later in 2011. the fiscal cliff, the sequesterer that became the obama quester. these are all one after another. republicans deciding that they are going to try to hole obama hostage, to try to get usually spending cuts or now they've turned to getting rid of obamacare. they say we don't want the government to shut down. we cope want to go over the cliff. we don't want the sequester.
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no matter how much we bang on our spoons and our high chair and point out what's going on, they can say whatever they want and a significant percentage of the country will believe it. >> it does seem the president's posture is different than in the past, in 2011. he wanted to use that leverage to get some big grand bargain. he does not seem interested. >> no. he is just sitting back and watching. i think in the other difference, we were fating about the budget. about their at least paper interest. >> during a moment of budget crisis, we were talking about the composition of the budget. now they are talking about every right wing part. give us something. can we get rid of contraception? the hostage taking is not even necessaribly the budget and at the end of the day, it is about barack obama.
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it is about that. >> there is some concern about conservatives from a tactical perspective. there is a real dispute about the wisdom of this particular way of going. we know famously john boehner didn't want to do that. are you worried that boehner has burned through a series of retreats just today in which he's ratcheted down his asks. does that leave him and the conservative movement nowhere to go to? >> no. a couple reasons why. one is if michael is correct and this is similar to all the other budget battles we've had in the last couple years, what they have in common is that they end in an agreement between the house and the national and something the president signed. so if that's where we're headed, then we're in a good position. you're right. boehner has been in a very difficult position with this caucus trying to get something both acceptable to his right flank and something the senate can pass. however, going into this new negotiation. bringing the senate to the
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table. having transparent and -- it will bear out what a serious. >> are you straight faced trying to sell this conference nonsense in. >> you keep talking about how it is so crazy. >> there are 12 minutes left! are they going to conference in the next 12 minutes? >> no. but no one thought we would not be at this point either way. no one thought that we wouldn't have at this pobt position. it is both parties not getting anything done. >> the party of both parties. is that true? >> well, some of us who come from the main stream media and have ruined our careers trying to point out, this is not boef sides. there are some ways things have been done and then there is one party that has gone off the deep
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end. i agree with what she was saying. from the republican side this is pretty much similar. these their own political consideration where they need to be showing maximum opposition to president obama at all times and obamacare. sometimes it is hard to tell whether they're angry and about the obama and the care. once you celebrate you've done this great thing of them. >> there was all this reporting about a house vote of. and we got them saying, this is crazy. we're going to wake up in the morning like teenagers that stole thor california 25 people vote against it. it shows it like, what they're tag identified of is a primary challenge. no matter what they say to reporters. ? & the political incentives. we have one party as you talked about in your last segment, had a it's accepted austerity levels of funding, far below anything
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any democrat could possibly want. democrats have built their compromise in. you have people in their district, barack obama let by 25 point. for the people they answer to, they must if it him to the end.k position which is right around what the ryan budget is? >> i think a cr. >> reporter: final budget deal is a huge conservative victory. in this is post obama care pasting, post stimulus, huge growth in government over the past ten years. that in and of itself is a victory for conservatives. going to a conference committee who knows if anything will emerge from that. from that we know going in to october 1st we have a different
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game. tomorrow is when it starts. this is when republicans have a good argument to make. we have heard how here in d.c., across the country, if you speak spanish, all of the on-line exchanges aren't ready for you. they will have the opportunity to do it tomorrow if they can get out of their own way. >> so we are clear, i want to read this, we don't have a clear indication that the congress will act to sign a continuing resolution before the end of the day october 1st, 2013. agencies should prepare for a shutdown. no panda cam at the least but some real hardships for people, particularly if this goes on for a while. a day or two can be kind of process for the system, retro actively pay people. go to a week or 17 days which is how long the last one was, you are risking paychecks, dpur low days, small business
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administration not doing loans. real cascade of problems that start to happen for people. thank you. joy reid will stick around as we come up on eight minutes before this hit thing gets shut down. we will be back where a member of the house will join me live minutes away. in the nation, we know how you feel about your car. so when coverage really counts, count on nationwide insurance. because what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love, love is strange just another way we put members first. because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ baby... ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ ♪ 'take me home...' ♪ 'i'll be gone...'
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♪ 'in a day or...' man: twooooooooooooooooo! is that me, was i singing? vo: not paying for scheduled maintenance feels pretty good. no-charge scheduled maintenance now on every new volkswagen. that's the power of german engineering less than seven minutes from a shutdown. the office of management and budget has been directing agencies to prepare plans for an orderly shut down. that's going to start soon. we will be back with a live member of congress and joy reid right after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] more room in economy plus. more comfort, more of what you need. ♪ that's... built around you friendly. ♪
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the latest a few minutes from the first government shutdown in 17 years. we have from omb, a directive issued to all of the federal agencies, unfortunately we do not have a clear indication that congress will act in time for the president to sign a continuing resolution before the end of the day tomorrow, october 1st. therefore, agencies should
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execute plans for an orderly shutdown due to absence of appropriations. joining me is congressman kill di. i don't believe you have been through one of these before. what do you think of what happened snont. >> i'm frustrated, sad and angry. we have a small number of members of the republican conference that decided that democracy needs to be suspended, rather than bringing what is a very reason able and we think conservative cr to the floor. one that we know would pass. they have decided to use these tactics. >> you say you know it would pass. do you know that for a fact. ? were votes counted by leader pelosi that you know it will pass. >> i got that from talking to republicans and others as well. they say if a clean cr comes through they would vote for it
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to prevent a shut down. the leadership of the house is so weak they can't fight against the minority of the house that controls things. >> it's funny. we talk about the hastert rule which is a majority of the majority. it is not clear that is necessarily what is at odds here. it is possibility it is a minority of the majority that would have voted against a clean cr. when i was going back and forth with robert costa, that knows it well, he is talking about a clean cr to avoid a shut down. >> he could manfully get on the floor of the house of representatives and say to those 80 republicans -- kamikaze district and say i have 200 democrats who will vote for a clean cr and 100 republicans, as well. if you don't want to do it i will get the votes from other there. sit down in the corner and be
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quiet. >> what do you think of that? >> the cr number is their number. this is what they have been asking for. we have asked for conference on this budget since april 23rd when chris van holen offered his resignation. i cosponsored it. boehner wouldn't do it. not probably because he didn't want to but because he does not control the republican conference. i'm not sure who does. it seems as though the speaker of the house is ted cruz at this point in time. >> very much so. i think that is shown to be clear. speaker boehner said this is a doomed strategy. of course we won't do this and i he has come 180 degrees and now he is pretending to embrace it. but it is clearly against his will at every turn. >> there has to be somebody who has leverage over the conference or the base they answer to. it is almost as if we need the
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hedge fund guys to come in and say we will faund primary challenge against if you don't raise the debt ceiling. almost need another source of leverage. literally the chamber of commerce dpax in the republican party no longer has leverage. neither does boehner. >> i want to throw up the panda cam. the beloved panda cam. the giant panda cam from the washington, d.c. zoo. that is out right now because of the government shutdown that's about to happen in about 50 seconds. that's a slight example of what will happen. but there are things that aren't funny, particularly if it extends. given what com congressman kildee said i think we could be in for a little ride here. congressman dan kildee. >> msnbc contributor joy reid thank you for your time. >> thank you, chris. as the clock ticks down to zero it is coming up on midnight
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in the east. no compromise has been reached to avoid the shutdown of the federal government of the united states. this is the first time it had has happened in recent memory. our coverage continues now with rachel maddow in washington, d.c. >> thank you, chris. good evening. >> thanks to you at home for being with us on this momentous night. it is now exactly midnight here on the east coast. for the first time in 17 years, the american federal government is as of right now in the process of shutting down. we are coming to you live from washington, d.c. this hour where house republicans have essentially just thrown in the towel and forced the federal government to shut down. what was expected to be a drama-filled night with negotiations going up until the last moment, did not exactly turn out that way. there's been talking right up until the last moment, but nothing that looks like working to stop this from happening. we have known for the better part of an hour now that house republicans have decided to just let

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