tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC October 8, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
century whaling ship. think the poor people who i work with who sometimes have to dress up like this at work. our little 19th century whaling ship here as spotted a whale. hooray, we are out to catch a whale and there's a whale. they row out to where they see the whale. and they get themselves up alongside it in their boat and that's where the dude with the harpoon comes into it. hi, andy. he gets up in the front of the boat and he throws the harpoon and he hits the whale. which of course is very, very sad for the whale. but it is exactly what our whaling boat crew is trying to do. so hooray for them, they have harpooned the whale. now here's the thing. the harpoon has a rope attached
to it and they tie the rope up to the boat. by virtue of that rope and that harpoon, that little whaling boat is now essentially tied to a very angry whale. which weighs what, like 40, 50, 60 tons and the whale because it has been stuck with a harpoon, inevitably takes off swimming. and because the boat is tied to it, the whale is towing it, dragging our little 19th century crew in our little boat, across the waves, going more than 20 miles an hour. our whaling boat is essentially water skiing behind a wounded, furious, huge creature, a creature that is way bigger than them. when that creature tires out and they're able to complete the kill. our little crew is going to be the richest crew on the ocean tonight, they got their whale. but if something goes wrong, like the whale doesn't get tired
and it runs away with them on this nantucket slay ride on waves as high as houses, how long can that little crew survive that on their boat. and the whale, if it is big enough and strong off, the whale could decide to sound. when a whale sounds, that means it is diving deep to the bottom of the ocean. if a whale is tied to a comparatively small whaling boat and it decides to dive down to the deepest of the deeps where the giant squid live, if the whale dives deep and brings that boat with it, all those sailors on the whaling boat are going to die at the bottom of the sea. which is where the captain comes in. as that boat is flying across the ocean at 20 miles an hour, over giant waves, being dragged through the sea behind 60 tons of righteous whale fury, our heroic whaling boat captain has one last thing he can do. if he thinks that whale is going to sound, if he thinks that whale is going to kill them all by dragging them down, he can use the most important thing
that he has on the ship. he can use his whale boat hatchet. he can use that as a last resort to cut the rope if he needs to do it to save their lives. tucked under the bow of every 19th century whaling ship was that tool of last resort. it is up to the captain to wield that hatchet when it is necessary. he decides even if we're not getting a whale today, the crew is not going to die by getting dragged to the bottom of the sea. do we trust the captain to cut the line? will he give up the chase even after all this effort? how does a simple fable with music down, thank you, simple fable with an obvious moral. do you trust the captain? you would not think of attaching yourself to something with the size and speed and strength of a
whale without having the means of getting unattached, right? but only the captain gets to wield that means of getting unattached. only the captain has the hatchet. so you better trust him, right? you better trust the captain to -- top trying, it is type to stop trying to get this thing you so badly want because of the harm it's going to do to you if you hold on to it. you have to trust the captain to know how much harm is too much harm and too likely to be harmed. you have to trust that captain to know when your quest needs to be over, it's time to go. in washington these past few weeks, that has been the surface level question, right? is john boehner a good enough captain? does he recognize that he has the hatchet? does he know when and how to use it? to stop the plummet to catastrophe if that is where we
are headed? it's an interesting question about whether or not he has the captain's wisdom and judgment on that ship. will he cut that line if he needs that line to be cut because they're all going to die if they don't? interesting fable, right? simple moral interesting fable. now we have a new problem on our ship. now we have a whole new modern twist that they never had to deal with on a 19th century ship. that is the crew does not think that the captain has to cut the rope ever, no matter what. turns out the crew is bonkers. the captain sees that the whale is ready to sound, go down to the bottom of the ocean and drag the whole boat down with them. the captain stands ready to cut the rope, but the whack do crew says we would rather go all way to the watery depths because we heard somewhere it will be no big deal. and we also heard the bottom of the sea is not all that bad a place to be this time of year and maybe we'll make friends with the giant squid. how does it affect the judgment
of the captain if his crew is screaming at him and struggling with him that they don't want to be saved? because john boehner's crew, his republican caucus in congress increasingly does not want to be saved. they see no risk, why cut the rope when everything is going to be fine? >> this talk about default by the u.s. treasury is nonsense. we are not going to default on the public debt. >> republican congressman joe barton explaining that it is nonsense to worry about hitting the debt ceiling. republican congressman john flemming also does not think there is anything to worry about with the debt ceiling. he told the "new york times," quote, economists, what have they been doing? they make all sorts of predictions, many times they are wrong, so i don't think we should run government based on economist predictions. congressman john flemming says technically it is not possible
to default. what happens in his mind if we do hit the debt celling? in his mind, quote, nothing happens, so says louisiana republican congressman john flemming. florida republican congressman ted yoho sprained to congress this week saying if we hit the debt ceiling, it would be good for us, good for the whole world even. he says i think we need to all have that moment where we think we are going broke. personally i think it would be stability to the world markets. we're not going to default, there is no default. republican congressman justin amash of michigan says, republicans have a different definition of default. nobody thinks we're going to default. and here's republican congressman steve king of iowa. >> i think that all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery, a lot of false
demagoguery. >> finding tape of that particular congressman saying stuff that sounds cuckoo is not about hunting for a white whale. it is demagoguery to worry about hitting the debt celling? this is increasingly becoming the new republican normal. that if we hit the debt ceiling for the first time in history, ah, no big deal, we have gills. >> there is no such thing as a debt ceiling in this country, i would dispel the rumor that is going around that you hear on every newscast that if we don't raise the debt ceiling we will default on our debt. we won't. >> we won't, why would we? senator r senator tom coburn is saying what is an increasingly normal thing for republicans say. from orrin hatch to rain paul to pat toomey have all said they think it is possible to hit the debt ceiling for the first time in history, it is possible for
us to blow through it but avoid economic catastrophe anyway because we can skillfully -- there is no mechanism for doing that, the treasury department that would be responsible for doing it says that it cannot be done. even if it could be done, an estimate from deutsch bank analysts that was published by "the washington post" today projects that that idea, even if it were possible, even if it were true, they project that that idea would drop 1,500 points off the stock market right away. it would reduce the economic growth in this country by 4.12% and that's if the magic we won't default scheme is possible.
which it probably isn't possible. but republican senator richard burr says getting upset about this is just scaring ourselves. it's one of the best things that could happen for young people. bloomberg news started off with a piece to convince republicans that the debt ceiling is a real thing. quote among the dozens of money managers economists, bankers traders and former government officials interviewed for this story few view this default as anything but a financial apocalypse. anybody who remembers the collapse of lehman brothers a little more than five years ago know what is a u.s. -- just weeks away if congress fails to raise the debt ceiling will be an economic calamity like the world has never seen. the shockwave that threw us into the greatest recession since the great depression that started with the collapse of lehman, started the first collapse of the debt tier of debt we would be talking about with the debt
ceiling, just the first tier, what what would be directly affected. that first tier is 23 times the size of the bankruptcy and collapse of lehman. remember what the lehman collapse did? republicans in congress increasingly say they are not worried and that apparently is starting to worry the president of the united states. >> i want to talk about this for a minute because even though people can see and feel the effects of a government shutdown, they're already experiencing it right now, there are still some people out there who don't believe that default is a real thing and we have been hearing that from some republicans in congress that default would not be a big deal. so let me explain this, if congress refuses to raise what is called the debt ceiling, america would not be able to meet all of our financial obligations for the first time
in 225 years. now the last time that the tea party republicans flirted with the idea of default two years ago, markets plunged, business and consumer confidence plunged. america's credit rating was downgraded for the first time. and a decision to actually go through with it, to actually permit default, according to many ceos and economists would be an i'm quoting here, insane, catastrophic, chaos, these are some of the more polite words. warren buffett likened default to a nuclear bomb, a weapon too horrible to use. nobody in the past has ever seriously threatened to breach the debt ceiling until the last two years. and this is the credit worthiness of the united states that we're talking about. this is our word, this is our good name. this is real. when i hear people trying to
downplay the consequences of that, i think that's really irresponsible. and i'm happy to talk to any of them individually and walk them through exactly why it's irresponsible. >> if you stay tied to the harpoon rope while the harpooned whale is diving to the bottom of the sea, you will die at the bottom of the sea. republican members of congress are not convinced. the harpoon is set, the rope is tied on and it turns out next week the whale is diving and it's really deep water. republicans increasingly have decided not just that they don't want to cut that rope, but that they don't need to. if you are captain john boehner, holding the whale boat hatchet looking at that rope right now, what do you do? joining us us now is allan krueger, he's an economics professor, the former chief of economic advisors, thank you very much for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> i'm sorry i had to introduce you with a long story involving
fishermen outfits and a whale. but the point we're trying to dramatize here is sort of denialism about the consequences of breaching the debt ceiling, do you think the denialists have a point? or do you think a breach of the debt ceiling would be catastrophic? >> this is reckless, mistakes happen, accidents happen. the closer we get, the more likely we are to have this kind of an accident. alexander hamilton must be rolling over in his grave right now. to think that you would threaten to default or to say we go over this debt limit, where the constitution says you shouldn't put the public debt in doubt, that they're playing this reckless, irresponsible game, and that they have done it before, it's not the first time, it's as the president said, it's irresponsible. >> if we did breach the debt ceiling, obviously we don't know how long it would last for or
how quickly we would be able to respond to any shocks that it created in our economy or around the world. can you give us some sort of layman's terms any sense of the potential magnitude of the impact as compared to say what we went through in 2008 and 2009? >> well the potential is catastrophic. you know, if it goes -- if we go past october 17 for some length of time, it's going to lead to uncertainty about whether our obligations will be met, it will cause a very sharp contraction in the amount of money the money is paying out to private sector contractors or helping the defense to social security recipients and the contraction, some estimates i saw are as high as 16% for the quarter, which is, you know, about double the worst of the great recession. >> that's astonishing. we have heard that if congress doesn't allow the u.s. to pay its debts and if we do this, there will be the kinds of
consequences that you just described and those numbers are almost impossible to get your head around. we just have never seen anything like that, not just in modern times, we have never seen anything like that as a country. as an economist, do you ever worry that predictions are so dire nobody can afford to belive that? catastrophic or apocalyptic that nobody can hear it and they turn to more comforting theories? >> you have to hope that cooler heads prevail. and what i worry about, what i described was just the effects of contraction because the government would be spending less. but you could find the financial markets all freeze up. you could have a run on money market funds. and the closer we get to that date, the more likely we run
that risk. and if we stay over the debt ceiling for any length of time, i think we're going to see extremely adverse effects for the economy. >> the president today talked about why he does not think he should and maybe think he can act unilaterally to go around congress to raise the debt ceiling under his own authority as president. obviously that's a legal question, a constitutional question and in some cases, in some ways a political question. but as an economist, do you have a view on whether or not the president has that ability and whether or not it would actually save us from the worse consequences if we didn't do it? >> you know, i think most economists would agree that we would be better off without the debt ceiling. that's an example that alan greenspan took, the debt ceiling is an unnecessary con stranlt. orders the administration to collect a certain amount of revenue. that implies a certain amount of borrowing. so that's what determines the deficit, not the debt ceiling itself so that in my view and in the the view of most economists is an economic constraint. the president has said they have
not been able to find a legal and responsible way to get around this constraint and that's going to be up to the lawyers and secretary lew and the president to decide what to do if we do pass this point, in my view this point of no return, they're faced with horrible options and look at all the uncertainty caused byer -- pay bond holders to some extent, foreign bondholders and then not pay federal contractors, not pay federal workers not pay disability insurance recipients, that will not go unchallenged. there will be a tremendous mess on our hands that would take some time to resolve and cause a financial collapse. >> i used to think that it would be a way out for the president to find some way to unilaterally do this. allan krueger, former chairman of president obama's economic
counselors. it's nice to have you here. there were members of congress, congressmen and congresswomen who were arrested today. but not for any dereliction of duty. these particular congress people wanted to get arrested today in washington and it turns out to be kind of an amazing piece of tape and kind of an amazing story. i have to thank the whaling crew for having done that. thank you very much, ben, it was very good. asional have constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.
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so eight members of congress got arrested today. it was not a corruption sting or anything like that. these eight members of congress got arrested at a protest in washington, d.c. even though everything in national politics right now feels like it has come to a halt because of the government shutdown and the looming debt ceiling deadline next week with its threat of total economic apocalypse, even though all that is still going on, today in washington there was a big, colorful, boisterous crowded reminder of the cost of our congress doing nothing right now
other than lurching from self-imposed crisis to self imposed crisis. back in june the senate passed an immigration reform bill and that bill went to the house where republicans are ignoring it to death. they are not saying they will kill it but just ignoring it. killing it by their inaction and hoping that the latino community in particular does not notice them killing it. the republican party hired seven new people to try to engage the republican party with latinos, they call them their hispanic engagement staff. they hired seven new people. today among the peaceful sit in protesters were members of congress who were all democrats calling for immigration reform to finally, finally, finally be brought up in the house where the republicans have let it languish. calling for immigration reform to pass in the house. one by one the eight democratic members of congress submitted peacefully to the police to be arrested in an act of civil
disobedience. it was congressman al green who was arrested first, followed by congressman joe crowley, then congressman john lewis was arrested. you can see him there. the congresswoman from illinois was arrested. then keith ellison then charlie wrangle there. and then congresswoman luis gutierrez. all of them got handcuffed and led away today under arrest at this protest. politics have survived the government shutdown. there was fury and anger and multiple arrests over what the congress is not doing as they struggle to try to get things back open. but there was also widespread fury across the country over some things that the government
usually does that they have stopped doing right now because of the government shutdown. the interview tonight is somebody who's here live in studio and it is on a subject of such national outrage and upset today that it very nearly unified the entire country. for once, something horrible, but it brought the whole country together. that story is coming up, stay with us.
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we are on new ground here. we do not know exactly -- group who are fighting the war, how it's going to affect the immense and complicated infrastructure. piece by piece the congress and the administration have been trying to shove together piecemeal -- alleviate the worst of impact to the troops on the field this. weekend defense secretary chuck hagel said he found a way to recall to work hundreds of thousands of civilian employees sent home from the pentagon without pay. they also passed something called the pay our military act which they thought might handle all of the other means of support for members of the military and their families that had been shut down by the shutdown. but apparently they were wrong. apparently they had not figured out a way to protect our members of the military and their families from the effects of the shutdown.
apparently what they thought was a good shield was not a good shield. didn't work at all. this is andrea mitchell's report on just how wrong they were were. >> out of all the outrage in washington over the government shutdown, this one really hits home. the families of five u.s. troops killed over the weekend in afghanistan got a second call from the government. that the government cannot pay their death benefits, the immediate benefits to help with funerals and flights to meet their loved ones' coffins because of the government shutdown. far from the furloughs on the front lines, lance corporal collins worked on one of the most dangerous jobs there is. the 19-year-old was killed in helmand province. back home in milwaukee, a mother's grief. collins was one of five u.s. service members killed in afghanistan over the weekend. on sunday four u.s. troops were killed in an ied attack. they died on the 12th anniversary of a war that has
claimed more than 2,100 members of the u.s. military. but unlike those killed before, these service members' families won't receive the $100,000 so called death gratuity, usually wired to families to help with the immediate expenses like the funeral until survivor benefits are paid. no money to fly the family to delaware to witness the return of their flag draped coffin. >> the government is still shut down but they're asking people to go to war. their family also get an iou until the shutdown is over, i think they're just shocked. >> shannon collins still shocked back in milwaukee can't wait for washington. she's already grieving. officials say that the law passed last week to pay civilian members of the military during the shutdown does not allow this immediate death benefit to be paid to families of the fallen. the pentagon is hoping for a way
to correct it perhaps as early as today. >> there were few answers about this today, but plenty of outrage coast to coast and across the political spectrum. this is apparently part of what happens when you shut down the entire federal government. which is outrageous no matter who shuts down the government and no matter why they shut it down. everybody agrees today that this, if nothing else, this has to be unacceptable. everybody agrees. so will it be fixed? i know how to figure out the answer to that question. and that's the interview tonight next. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp.
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benefit that's with held. i will not -- i won't ever understand it. with the benefits in limbo, i think that in the end the government is hurting the wrong people. >> hurting the wrong people. the shutdown of course is hurtling people across the board. but when you cannot take care of the families of fallen soldiers, i think everybody agrees with we have hit a new low. for most civilians, the idea of military death benefits is kind of a new concept. what does that mean for the families in these circumstances? >> it's a crisis benefit that's cut to them usually in the first 36 hours. it was actually originally 15,000 and we advocated to increase it to $100,000. that money go to the family to help them with travel and the miscellaneous expenses and it
gets them money immediately. this is a whole new level of stupid. this is outrageous and i hope this shakes america to help them understand that the government may be shut down, but we're a country at war. we never had a shut down during a war, so our community is under tremendous pressure right now and they have already been under pressure for the last deck indicate. so we're -- >> we saw an announcement from the va spokesperson yesterday. the gi call center being shut down. that came as both very bad news and as somewhat of a surprise, because a lot of the va was insulated from the worst effects of the shutdown, specifically because you guys advocated for and won advanced funding for the va. so the va is essentially funded a year in advance of all the other agencies. did you do this because you wanted the va to be unsuddenly
lated? >> we wanted to be insulate frtd the shutdown. it doesn't cover emergency health coverage and health care, it doesn't cover the benefits of the administration. it doesn't cover the gi bill, it doesn't cover all the paper work processing that it's being done now. the gi bill hot line is down, regional offices are closed and veteran's organizations all over the country are absorbing that impact. we have seen calls quadruple in the past couple of days. they don't know if their next gi bill check is coming. i was with three -- reserve drill cancelled this weekend, that's training so they're not going to be as ready for war. but that's about $400 in their pocket. we continue to update it. and we appreciate folks check it out, spread the word because there's a lot of confusion right now. i know that you guys were telling everybody through social media that people can place calls about their gi benefits to you guys.
we're in early to mid-october. what that means is for people who are eyesing gi benefits to go to school, it's sort of awkward to -- so you can pay for books and all those things. now people get no help. >> it's a couple 00 hundred thousands people who have just started school who aren't getting their benefits. they're actually going to pay the troops on october 15. so this is a real time crisis within our country that i don't think folks are really understanding. we're not getting involved in part san battles here. we're talking about practical realities, washington's got to find a way to at least protect this group of people who are literally in harm's way right now. >> the thing that is -- this is not just true about veterans and military issues, but i feel like it is most acutely true for those issues. we are learning that you can't just break things and pick up the pieces one by one and make
it feel whole. they all thought and they sort of advertise when they were shutting down the government. don't worry, we took care of the troops, we took care of the veterans, we're just going to shut down parts of the government we don't like. they have not been able to put it back together. >> 15% of them work in the government. they're veterans who have come home and are now working in the government. many of them are defense contractor who is were already hit by sequester and now they're going to be hit by the shutdown. this is over and over -- this this should be a wakeup call for all americans. we have got to fix this and we have got to recognize what damage it's doing to our people who are in harm's way and who
are fighting on our behalf. >> is it frustrating to you to see members of congress express chest pounding outrage about this story today, to see members of congress go down to the world war ii memorial and express chest pounding about how sad they are that the world war ii memorials are shut down when those same members of congress are responsible for the shutdown? >> yes, but our veterans and military are america's favorite political chew toy. they love to hold us up as the first group that's getting impacted and still not deliver for us. they know it resonates with the american people. but they're talking and not delivering. the american people have got to demand that they deliver for our american military families right now. when they shut down the government, that overflow demand goes somewhere and right now it's going to community based nonprofits around the country. >> in terms of how this gets fixed, one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you, paul, is i feel like you're not only somebody who's lived it and you have a pretty good analysis of how veterans get use in the politics, but you have been able to turn that into some really
concrete advocacy wins, the advanced funding of the va is because of your advocacy. the new gi bill is because of your advocacy. they have figured out how to turn all of this emotional shrapnel into concrete gains for your community. do you as a practical political guy see a way out of this? >> yes, maybe we're the reason they'll resolve this. veterans and military should be the folks who we can all rally behind. you brought up another important point about all these wins, we are making progress on the backlog, helping the va remove the backlog by about 30%. they can't even correspondent to develop the new digital electronic processing system. that's shut down. >> the systems that let them say they have the backlog cleared by next year, they're not working on that.
>> they have thrown a giant wrench in all that. so the progress is going to be delayed and stalled and that's going to impact millions of folks around the country. >> the emotional impact and the political impact of the way this is affecting military families and veterans is something that's impotent unless it is turned into action and the people that are going to turn it into action are you guys. >> it's the more than public, we are small in number, we need everybody to step up and get behind us. >> so your leadership here is needed more than every. thanks for being here. teenagers, you're immature, that's not me. that's a state supreme court ruling that will chap your hide and it has nothing to do with the shutdown and that story's coming up. in the nation, sometimes bad things happen. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance
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do you believe this will be one of the most important if not the most important economic decisions you will make in the remainder of your presidency? >> it is definitely one of the most important decisions i will make in my presidency. the federal reserve chairman is not just one of the most important economic policymakers
in economic, he or she is one of the most important policymakers in the world. and that person presumably will stay on after i'm president. so this, along with supreme court appointments is probably as important a decision as i make as president. >> as important as supreme court appointments. well we have some late breaking news to report tonight. is that we now know who the next chair of the federal reserve is likely to be. the current fed chair of course is ben bernanke. he was appointed fed chair by george w. bush in 2006. he was then reappointed by president obama in 2010. now we know that when his term expires in january, the person who will take over for him in all likelihood will be this person, janet yellen. she is the vice chairman of the current reserve. tonight we find that president obama intends to nominate her as ben bernanke's successor as chairman of the federal reserve.
the announcement will come at a white house event tomorrow afternoon at 3:00 eastern. if she is confirmed by the senate, janet yellen would make history as the first woman ever to head up the federal reserve and ms. yellen, the second woman to head up a bank in the developed world. president obama's former top economic adviser lawrence summers withdrew his name from consideration last month. lawrence summers potential nomination as chairman of the fed drew lots of opposition from the political left. his withdrawal from the process under that pressure left janet yellen as president obama's most likely choice. chair of the federal reserve is a big, big, big, high-profile position. we have only had two fed chairs over the last 25 years. allen greenspan, and ben bernanke, and they both became household names.
this is a consequential position among consequential positions. and janet yellen is set to join the list if confirmed. the news confirmed by the white house, president obama will officially nominate janet yellen to become the next chair of the federal reserve tomorrow 3:00 p.m. in the east room of the white house, set your dvrs now. s s store and essentially they
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first thing you need to know, this has nothing at all to do with the federal government shutdown. it would probably be the top politic story in the country right now if the shutdown were not happening. all right. here's what is going on. january 2011, the state senator in nebraska named lydia brosh introduced legislative bill 690. senator brosh discussing the bill on the floor of the state legislature in nebraska.
lb 690 was an anti-abortion bill, what the anti-abortion side calls a parental consent bill. it said that if somebody under the age of 18 in nebraska wanted to have an abortion she would have to get written permission from a parent or garden or sunny couldn't have it. previously you had to notify your parent or guardian. but the senator's bill would change that. said blocking a young woman from getting an organization unless she could get written consent "is the best option for young women's safety, well-being and peace of mind." that was the idea. senator lydia brosh's bill said you cannot get an abortion without written consent from your parents. and it soared through the republican dominated nebraska state legislature. she introduced it in january, 2011. by may it passed, 41-6. and that very same day,
nebraska's republican governor signed night law. when it was signed into law, anti-abortion group, americans united for life. the new parental consent law, based on model legislation. they're very, very psyched to get the bill passed in nebraska. of course they're psyched to get bills like this passed all over the country. well this past weekend, two years after the bill became law, the nebraska state supreme court er issued their first verdict under the parental consent law. nebraska supreme court rejects foster child's abortion request. five out of the seven judges on the nebraska supreme court, "refused a 16-year-old foster child's request to get an abortion without parental consent." the 16-year-old girl is unnamed in the court case because she is a kid. her identity has been protected. but as a kid, living in nebraska, she has not been protected. she cannot get parental consent for her abortion.
because her parents no longer have the right to be considered her parents. a nebraska court dissolved their parental right because they physically abused and neglected their daughter. and it was during the hearing where the 16-year-old girl's parents were getting their parental rights stripped by the state, because they abused her, it was during that hearing that the teenager told the court in this confidential proceeding that she was pregnant and that she felt she could not have the baby. she told the court she wanted to have an abortion because she did not have the financial resources to support a child, or she said "to be the right mom that i would look to be right now." the district court judge hearing her plea looked this young woman up and down and asked her whether she knew that "when you have the abortion it is going to kill the child inside you."
then he ruled she would not be allowed to have the abortion. with no parents available to give written consent, even if that made sense in this case which it doesn't, that judge decided that he would decide to whether or not she would be allowed to have an abortion. and he decided she would not have one. the young woman has not shown she is mature and well-informed enough to decide on her own whether to have an abortion. so the state of nebraska will instead force her to give birth to a child. even though she doesn't want to. because they say she is too immature to choose not to. that was the district court ruling in her case. now the nebraska state supreme court has upheld that judge's ruling. thus forcing the 16-year-old girl to give birth by order of the state judges even though she does not want to give birth. abortion is legal in nebraska. but not for her. because she was beaten up and neglected by her family. and so now the state decide what she gets now. and the state has decided she can't have that choice. we spoke to the attorney who was representing this young woman at the center of the story today. her attorney katherine mahorn, she told us today there will be a meeting in nebraska next week
to determine the next step forward in this case. specifically to decide whether or not to further appeal this decision. and what that might mean. in practical terms for her young client. time of course is of the essence here. the girl at the center of the case is now more than 4 months pregnant. she was only ten weeks pregnant when the state of nebraska first denied her permission to have an abortion. sunny was ten weeks pregnant when sheep started asking. they have just finished saying no. and now she is more than 4 months pregnant. we asked her attorney tonight, what her client thinks about this latest ruling from the state supreme court on her case. the attorney told us she has not discussed it. she is busy. she is a high school student. and an american state is forcing her to give birth against her will on the ground that as a high school student she is too immature to have an abortion, but not to immature to be forced
to become a mother. we'll bring you updates on this case as we get them. if the government shut down were not going on in washington. one of the biggest political stories in the country. you otherwise may not have heard about it. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. president obama took 18 question tuesday at his press conference. speaker john boehner took exactly two questions. so who's the guy who is a frayed -- afraid of talking about the shutdown. >> republicans have no interest in shutting down the government. >> shutting down the government is irresponsible. it is as simple as that. >> day act of the government shutdown. >> full steam ahead on a government shutdown. >> this is a very complicated issue. >> new polls show no one smelling like roses. >> 70% disapproval rating.