tv Politics Nation MSNBC October 9, 2013 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
you are shutting the government down to prove an ideological point. they have a blind passion for ideology. if it stops instead of slows down, that's what they consider victory. >> it's great to have you with us. thank you. thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, gop in isolation. day nine of the shutdown, and the party is showing signs of serious stress. there are now deep divisions and sharp criticism of the tea party republicans from some of their biggest supporters. we'll talk about that. also today, just moments ago, president obama and house democrats wrapped up a meeting at the white house. tomorrow republican leadership
will meet with president obama. earlier, a somber reminder of the pain of the republican shutdown and what it is causing. four fallen military service members arrived at dover air force base. because of the gop shutdown, their families were denied death pen f benefits that would have covered cost of travel. they put speaker boehner into damage control mode. today allowing death benefits to happen. none of this had to happen. and now we're learning boehner is really feeling the heat. the new york times reporting tonight the republican party is quote increasingly isolated. their biggest business supporters are now demanding the immediate reopening of the
government. today the national retail federation sent a letter to congress warning of the damage to consumer confidence. they join the right wing chamber of commerce in pressuring the gop. and the national association of manufacturers. this demand to reopen the government comes as people across the country are still being hurt. >> the small business association stopped processing loans during the government shutdown. >> when we went to the bank that morning and they said sorry, this is a no go, and they told me why. i mean, i felt my heart hit the floor. i had an awesome job that i left to follow the american dream and i can't do anything about it. >> sonya from roadrunner food bank says employee also receive food from the food bank as the effects of the shutdown creep into the day to day lives of
many. >> many are our own donors who give us food and funds. >> the department of health and human services has been a halt on the wic program. >> we're not going to get wic today. you know what? to tell you the truth. i don't know. we're not starve, are we? >> speaker boehner could make this all go away today if he would have a vote. that's why we are having this, a 5% approval rate, an all-time low. is there any wonder why they are feeling isolated? thank you both for being here. >> thank you for having me. i just left a meeting with the president. >> i was going to ask you about
that. you just came from a white house meeting with the house democrats. and let me ask you about that meeting and about reports the gop is getting isolated. what is the sense from democrats on where this is going? >> we >>. >> reporter: we think that the republicans have gone down the wrong road. they need to turn around. and what the president said was that, you know, he is not going to compromise, as i said two weeks ago when i was on your show, on the issues at hand. that is that the government has to run in its normal operation. and the government has to pay its bills. now in terms of the fair negotiations with the other party on things that we're concerned about and things that they're concerned about, we can have those negotiations, but he's not willing to have our nation held hostage. he was very clear about that. but i think he's got an outstretched arm and hand to speaker boehner that look, let's
get back to regular order, let's pay our bills, and then let's sit down and talk through whatever the concerns of the republican party may be. >> well, congressman, as much as you can, take us inside the white house meeting. what happened in the meeting that you can share with us? >> well, i can share this. the president says he's always been amazed that you have so many climate deniers. then you've got default deniers. if the government doesn't pay its bills, if the full faith and credit of the united states, which has always been the gold standard in the world is just pushed aside it won't have any effect. this is the most radical, extremist notion that we could be a deadbeat nation and somehow it's not going to affect our markets and our economy, it's the most dangerous language we've heard. people who should now muknow mu
better about this. >> abbey, the fact of the matter is, when you hear that they are default deniers, and you hear it in the context of climate control deniers, that's pretty, pretty scary that we have people that will make a decision on the debt limit that really are in denial that default in this regard would have the impact that it in fact will have. >> it's incredibly scary, and that's why we're in this position now. can you throw out this anti-government rhetoric. that's all fine and well until you can't pay the bills, you can't pay the families who have soldiers that lost their lives in afghanistan. you can't track the flu that kills people every year. all that's been cut off. you have 2 million people that aren't getting paid. they're not sure when they're
going to get paid again. they rely on this for daily expenses, whether it's going to the store to buy food for their families. >> many survive check to check. >> abbey mentioned these military families. we're talking about people that died protecting americans. died in the service of this country. listen to what the president said when he was asked about military families. >> what aid say to them is actually that's solved today. i just said administratively. i'm not going to wait for congress. i asked secretary hagel to fix it. and it's going to get fixed today. >> what do you say to those folks, sorry? >> no, we should never have been there in the first place. the theory that we should shut down the government as a negotiation tactic should never have been done in the first place. and it does a disservice to all the men and women in uniform and all those who sacrificed for our
freedom. >> we should never have been there in the first place, the president says. can of imagine your child, my child dying in the service of this country, and we're told we cannot help you, because we want to stop a law that was already passed? i mean, can you imagine the pain and anguish that must cause people who did nothing but what was right for this country? >> well, that shows you the recklessness of all this, and there's all this talk about who's to blame. there are three leg, house, senate, white house. the house is the one leg that says we won't keep the government open. the senate says they will pass a clean cr. the house says no, unless you give us all of our demand, we won't allow the government to function. and not only did this disgraceful thing happen today, but all the inspections from plant catastrophes around the
country had to stop. inspections of our airplanes at the maintenance terminals at airports have had to stop. we've had research going on and paid for by the national science foundation which has to be put on hold and will wipe out a year's worth of work for some of the world's best scientists because of this nonsense, all to attempt to have us deny affordable care, which never was going to happen. this is a dead-end road. they were never going to get the president to retreat or equivocate. and now they seem to, based on paul ryan today seem to have admitted that, well, they need to get back to some more normal discussions about what political parties want. democrats want a lot of things. we want immigration. background checks. we want more funding for universal child care and education. so let's have a discussion about that, but not at the threat of cutting and closing down our government. >> abbey, there is this times article about the isolation of the gop. now some of their own business
allies in the business community, major players are calling on them to end this shutdown immediately. what is your view of that, and will this bring them toward any level of rational behavior here? >> that is a great question. i wish i could answer that. and i wish the answer was yes. it's really no surprise that the american people seem dysfunction in washington. as a bigger problem in the economy, that is where we're at. the biggest issue for republicans is there's no authority. we know that speaker boehner has not been able to really show, exert any sort of leadership for a long time now. so they're in a position now where the tea partiers as we know, they're not likely to budge on this. what it's going to take is speaker boehner to exert some of that leadership. i don't know that's going to happen in the near future. i don't see it happening, but it's going to have to happen. you see folks like senator mccain, rational voices who are trying to make some sense saying look, we know how this is going
to end. we see the writing on the wall here. it's time to throw-in the towel. unless you're affecting the outcome of the election in 2014, they don't care what anyone has to say. >> you can tell how bad it is when i'm saying john mccain is rational. but at least in this point, he is. thank you both for your time tonight. be lure and catch abbey on the cycle, weekdays at 3:00 right here on msnbc. still ahead, a surrender from the billionaire boys club, funding the shutdown, president obama's winning, and the pro brothers are beginning to crumble. plus the gop's hypocrisy. they love to praise him except when he's on the same page as president obama. and the new attacks on health care and the health care law, comparing the president's
signature achievement to the most shameful period in american history. also, what's on your mind, e-mail me. friend or foe, i want to know. reply al is ahead. ♪ with an innovative showerhead plus wireless speaker, kohler is the proud sponsor of singing in the shower. [ male announcer ] let's go places. but let's be ready. ♪ let's do our homework. ♪ let's look out for each other. let's look both ways before crossing. ♪ let's remember what's important. let's be optimistic.
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events of 2008 or worse. but senator toomey doesn't buy it. here he is this morning. >> there's zero chance that the u.s. government is going to default even its debt. it's unfortunate that people have conflated this idea of not raising the debt ceiling immediately on october 17th with somehow defaulting on our debt. i haven't heard any of my republican colleagues suggest that it might be okay to default on our debt. >> oh, yeah. no republican is saying it's okay to default except congressman yoho. he said it would bring stability to the world markets. oh, and then there's this star team of debt deniers. >> the debt ceiling has never not been raised. so there is no debt ceiling. >> i don't think the credit of the united states is going to be
collapsed. i think all this talk about a default is a lot of false demagoguery. >> if you don't raise the debt ceiling what that means is you would have a balance budget. it cooperate mean you wouldn't pay your bills. >> this talk about default by the u.s. treasury is nonsense. >> no. no. it's not nonsense. it's fact. it's time to come back to reality. before more damage is done to the country. joining me now is former chief economist for vice president and of course, thank you for coming on the show tonight. i want to get right to to. what is your response to republicans saying that this is no big deal? >> to hear that series of misstatements in normal times when we didn't have already a fragile underlying economy and we weren't literally days away
from what i view and most economists view as a possibly cataclysmic mistake, it's horrific. i just don't know the words for it. look, here's the very simple economics. what they're trying to say is that the treasury can pay off our creditors based on daily cash flow. revenues come in, even after the debt ceiling is not raised. but what they cannot say is the following -- can the treasury pay all of its bills? of course not. so if the treasury decides to pay one creditor but not a social security beneficiary, not a soldier, not a defense contractor. that is default by another name. so they are, they couldn't be more wrong. >> once it hits that ceiling on the 17th, then it becomes a period of where some bills have to not be paid, and it increases and increases. i want to go back to the new york times report on business
groups calling for the end of the shutdown. here's what they say. in a letter to congress, the president of the national retail federation said, quote, we strongly support passage of both a continuing resolution to provide for funding of the federal government into the next fiscal year and a measure to raise the nation's debt ceiling. now these are people that are customarily supportive of conservative or right-wing causes. why would threy write that. >> unfortunately, the extremist community isn't moved at all by the pressure you could flormly count on to put this to the side. the problem right now is less the ted cruises and bachmans. it's the moderates who should know better but refuse to eschew
the extremists. let me make one more comment. you can't even guarantee that you'll be able to pay your creditors if we fail to raise the debt ceiling. because it's very easy to imagine a day, and that's all it takes, for the cash flow to be too low to pay the creditors. all this is phony and dangerous. >> let me raise to you a champion of those guys and what he had to say in 1985 about the debt ceiling debate. listen to though. >> never before in our history has the federal government failed to honor its financial obligations. to fail to do so now would be an outrage. and the congress must understand this and bear full responsibility. >> i've never heard a name more used by the right wing than
ronald reagan. and that is what ronald reagan said about debt ceiling. how can they come as reaganites and say the kind of things that i played to you that they said. >> two things. you now as well as i do that ronald reagan would be kicked out of the republican party today for being two centrists. and what they're telling you is no, we can meet our obligations with cash flow. that is patently wrong. we cannot make our obligations with cash flow. we can maybe pay our krid tors, mash not. >> thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, using the language of slavery to score political points just took an ugly new turn. and they had plans to take down president obama, but today they blinked. that very big news is ahead. i'm a careful investor.
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we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. i'to guard their manhood with trnew depend shields and guards. the discreet protection that's just for guys. now, it's your turn. get my training tips at guardyourmanhood.com there aren't a lot of funsing democracies around the world that work this way, where you can basically have millionaires and billionaires bank rolling whoever they want, however they want, in some cases undisclosed. and what it means is, ordinaries are shut out of the process. >> president obama taking on the billionaires that are polluting our political process. and now signs that those
billionaires are running scared. we told you about the plot hatched in secret by conservative activists with the deep financial involvement of the billionaire koch brothers. but today, the koch brothers are backing away from the fight they helped start. they sent this letter saying koch has not taken a position on the legislative tactic of tying the continuing resolution to defunding obama care, nor have we lobbied on legislative provisions defunding obama care. haven't taken a position? they financed the groups that planned the shutdown. just today, politico reported the koch brothers gave half a million dollars to the group heritage action, which this summer even put on a defund
obama tour with ted cruz. >> i also want to take a moment to welcome our friends from heritage to the great state of texas. [ applause ] now is the single best time we have to defund obama care. [ applause ] >> the koch brothers helped pay for events like this. and then claimed not to have a position? on the defund movement? the truth is they provided a lot of start up money for americans for prosperity. the so called astroturf group behind the tea party. and they helped fund this creepy anti-obama care ad, telling people not to get inshushs. pretty scary.
but you know what's scarier? the koch brothers' pledge to personally spend $60 million to personally beat obama. their money funds are a huge part of the conservative world and paved the way for this shutdown. charles koch wanted the fight declaring war before the 2012 election. >> we've been talking about we have saddam hussein, the mother of all wars we've got in the next 18 months for the life and death of this country. >> the mother of all wars. well, guess what? president obama won that war. now he's standing tough against the dead-end movement to shut down the government. and the koch brothers are waving
the white flag, joining me now is a nag at investigative correspondent for nbc news. thaun thank you for being here. you reported on this letter the koch brothers sent to congress. what's behind it? >> first of all, it's a pretty remarkable letter because the koch brothers have been historically so secret and quiet about everything they do politically. and to have a letter like this is pretty extraordinary. as you've pointed out, you have a lot of attention in recent days about all the money that they have helped fund to conservative groups that have been pressuring house republicans to link defunding obama care to the continuing resolution, to shut down the government. and harry reid on the senate floor the other day denounced the koch bros. said they are responsible for
how we got to where we are. it's very clear they're getting concerned, probably not so much go a government shutdown but about the idea of a government default. they run a huge, multi billion dollar business. >> are they concerned about their business because the prospect over default over the health care law is really scary. and you wrote today, let me read what you said. privately koch officials have expressed concern that the prospect of a default over the obama care issue would be a disaster for the economy. are they afraid for their businesses, michael? >> well, look, three a they are economy. they need credit markets to be smooth for their businesses to function. so whether it's for them personally or the economy in
general for which they are inextrickably intertwined, i think it would be hard to separate out. but clearly they are concerned like a lot of other traditional backers. they all joined a letter today making essentially the same point, that they don't want the economy to go over the cliff on this, and they don't want us to go into a default. >> karen, does this show the republican crackup? >> it sure does. but it also shows that the republicans, i mean, we talked about their before. this is their own problem that they have created coming home to roost. think about their. the koch brothers are now trying to get help from others in congress against the, those tea party crazies that they funded, as you pointed out in your opening. that's how ridiculous this is. they maybe should pay a little bit closer attention to where the money that they're spending actually goes.
for them to now say we weren't saying, you know, we weren't for, obama care, they also spent what was it, $5 million in direct advertising against obama care? this goes to something that i hold responsible folks like the koch brothers, like any of the large donors to the republican party, any of the rational people in the republican party. this summer, when ted cruz was out there with heritage doing these rallies, trying to whip up the base and whip up the frenzy around defunding obama care and tying that to the cr, shame on them for not putting a stop to it then. because that's why we're at this point. >> and let me say this, michael. you've talked about how private they are, but they have sent a letter before. last fall, koch industries sent thousands of employees a letter telling them to vote, and a handy list of the candidates they endorsed, including mitt romney and paul ryan.
i mean, this is like blatant pressure from your employer. >> right. i mean, that's, that's something, part of get out to vote efforts on the republican side. there are plenty of comparable get out to vote efforts on democrat sides. but i think what i was referring to is to be paub lick about the lobbies process which is what they did here. this was a letter to congress stating their position, urging and telling members of congress where they stand. and usually they do that in private, not in public. >> now, you know, the guest list at their koch events where they have these retreats, it reads like a who's who in the republican party, reported attendees include chris christi, paul ryan, jim dement, eric cantor, rush limbaugh, glen beck. judge anat that mean ca she yeah. how big is the influence in the
republican party? >> it's huge. i mean, they give, and remember, we don't actually know the full breadth and depth because the way they raise money is through these organizations that then give money to other organizations. so the money is flowing all throughout, from whether it's freedom works, americans for prosperity. you name it. they are a huge influence. but, again, i sort of feel like the kochs and some of the other conservatives, you can't have it both ways, right. now they're saying they don't want to see us hit the debt limit and the debt ceiling and have that crisis, but, again, they were fine with whipping up the base and letting them get whipped up and push this for months and months and months as long as they thought there was going to be a different outco. and now it appears, ah-oh, this isn't the outcome we expected. you can't have it both ways. >> thank you for your time tonight. be sure to watch disrupt with
karen finney weekends at 4:00 eastern receipt here on msnbc. and one note, i invited the koch brothers to come on the show tonight, they passed and declined further comment. ahead, comparing the health care law to slavery isn't just for the usual right-wing hate amongsters. it just got bigger. that's next vo: irresponsible. rep. rokita: obamacare hurts this country much more than any government shutdown. vo: reckless. rep. blackburn: people are probably going to realize... they can live with a lot less government. vo: destructive. rep. bachmann: this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. vo: the government shutdown is hurting veterans, seniors, and our kids. now tea party republicans are threatening... an economic shutdown. refusing to pay our nation's bills. endangering american jobs. tell them to stand up to the tea party.
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. wea've heard a lot of offensive talk when it comes to the affordable health care act. for some on the right, the act is slavery. this is the latest to offer up this pearl of wisdom. >> i hear democrats say the affordable care act is the law, as though we're supposed to jen u flikt that sunburst and move on. slavery was the law and then we changed them. >> he's comparing health care to a law that allowed slave owners to get their escaped slaves back, even from fwree states in
the north. but george will isn't the only pundit comparing the law to slavery. >> what barack obama seem does want to do is go back to those days when we were in different classes based on income, based on color of skin. >> when the government forces hospitals and physician does provide free health care to those who can't or won't pay for it themselves, that's not charity, that's slavery. >> we can't do anything about it. that's the law of the land. well, so was slavery one time the law of the land. >> now you'd expect that kind of talk from rush limbaugh and the fox news crowd, but elected officials? members of congress? yeah. they're using it too. >> the this insurance card in people's pockets is going to be as worthless as a confederate dollar after the war between the states. >> request regards to the idea of whether or not you have a right to health care you have to
realize what that implies. i'm physician. that means you can come to my house and conscript my. means you brief in slave ray. >> it is as destructive to individual and personal lib irrelevant as the fugitive slave act of 1850 that allowed slave owners to come to new hampshire and seize african-americans. >> really? the republican party was founded on one issue, to outlaw slavery. now they've got one mission, to oppose everything done by the nation's first black president what are republicans trying to achieve when they invoke slavery to attack the health care law? >> trying to appeal to those who probably didn't study the
fugitive slave act and probably only are search engine deep in the issue of slavery. look, common sense tells you, you've got 8 million plus people who are signing up to find out about the affordable care act, right? people signing up. now you tell me, one person, one person who signed up during the 400 years of slavery to get on a slave ship. tell me one person who says i want to find out this thing about slavery and lord know, i'm ready to sign up. this is just how stupid this argument is. but, they're again, playing off this whole and strabt, racial discussion because it's president obama. >> it's insulting for some.
>> insulting for most of us. >> tell me how this plays politically. who are they trying to play to? >> anytime that they're mentioning slavery or whether they're talking about the quote-unquote war of yankee aggression you know exactly who they're playing to, their far, far right wing base and the very regional base at that. and what george will doesn't seem to understand here is that the reason that democrats are so upset about the way that republicans characterize this is that they're not saying that they're going to, you know, repeal obama care by passing it through the house, passing a new law through the senate, having the president seen it. instead, what they're saying is no, we're going to blow up the global economy if you don't just delay this or defund it. so if you want to compare it to the other odious laws in the past, those laws were repealed. you know, they went, they went
through the legislative procession. >> they were not defunded. >> they weren't defunded. they weren't delayed. you didn't threaten, not just threaten but actually shut down the government and blow up the global economy. >> listen to this. >> progressive policies are keeping these people in slavery. slavery to government, welfare, affirmative action, regulation, control. >> slavery and apportion, the two most horrendous things this country has done. >> the legal immigration is modern day slavery. >> it is slavery. it's slavery. >> now justice clarence thomas evokes slavery in his opinion on affirmative action.
he said slave the holders argued that slavery was a positive good, that civilized blacks and elevated them in every dimension of life. republicans even named an anti-abortion bill after abolitionist frederick douglass. they use though slavery line and this comparison to slavery, no matter how insulting and offensive to some of us. they use it all the time through several issues. >> and they did it even decades ago when it came to social security. they did it decades ago when it came to medicare. the reality is that, as you know, i know, and every thinking, compassionate human being knows that slavery was human bondage. slavery was an immoral act. everyone knows that.
there's nothing immoral about trying to feed children. there's nothing immoral about giving people an upper hand. what we understood about slavery was the immorality of it, the inhugh mainness of it. the fact that it literally killed millions of people. and, by the way, we fought a civil war over it. this is what -- >> and lost a lot of lives. and it was around people being due humanized. but, when you hear these comparisons to slavery and these trying to keconnect these kindsf dots with ugliness, how does this play to mainstream voters in this country? >> i think it just makes them look totally off their rocker. let's be clear about what we're talking about here. you know, what is obama care? it is a small amount of subsidies for private health care insurance. i mean, this is what's going to
destroy the country? is our grasp on freedom in this country so fragile that a few subsidies for private insurance are going to destroy that? subsidies, by the way, which they're saying won't even make insurance affordable enough for a lot of low and middle income people. are these insurance rates too high and therefore obama care is a failure? or are they too low in which case it is somehow comparable to slavery. they don't make any sense whatsoever. and i think the 80% of the country watching this is going to agree with that and say what are they talking about, wait, a subsidy for health care is slavery? okay. i'm not going to listen to anything else that these people have to say. >> joe madison, ryan, i'm going to have to leave there. last week, a gop leader told
me we don't live in a democracy. now another republican is getting some basic facts about america wrong. it's time for a civics lesson from professor al. that's next. [ woman #1 ] why do i cook? ♪ because an empty pan is a blank canvas. ♪ [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman #3 ] to show my love. ♪ [ woman #4 ] because life needs flavor. ♪ [ woman #5 ] to travel the world without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson. [ woman #1 ] that's why i cook.
the shutdown has left me wondering just what republicans are thinking. but yesterday, republican congressman mike mullen from oklahoma tried selling his idea for cooperation in washington, and it only left me with more questions. >> this country isn't ran by just one individual. it's ran by four branches, but three branches that are controlled. as long as three branches control it we all have to figure out how to negotiate. >> white a minute. hold on. this is breaking news. how did i miss this? >> this country isn't ran by just one individual. it's ran by four branches. >> when did they add another branch? now maybe he thought the house and senate were separate branches, but, you know what? i'm not here to criticize. we all make mistakes. so i'm here to help.
how about a little gop civics lesson, shall we? school's in session. call me professor sharpton. let's head over to the board, shall we? here are the three branches of government. the legislative, made up of the senate and the house. the executive. the president makes laws official. and the judicial. the supreme court oversees the court system. so that makes one, two, three. but hey, he probably took the right wing civics class. that's where they teach those other branches. the koch brothers. sure, they may be rich enough to buy congress. and then the fifth branch. fox news. yeah. they make their talk being points through that wing of the
party, of the government. and sixth, the rush branch. he oversees the entire system. i can see how the congressman got confused. so class is dismissed for the day, but congressman, did you think we'd ignore your failing grades? nice try, but here's your homework. we got you. [ tires screech ] ♪ [ beeping ] ♪ may you never be stuck behind a stinky truck. [ beeping ] ♪ may things always go your way. but it's good to be prepared... just in case they don't. toyota. let's go places, safely. but it's good to be prepared... just in case they don't. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men.
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finally, tonight, president obama leading on the shutdown fight. he's standing firm and refusing to breach a principle that would weaken the presidency. in my new book, the rejected stone, i write about not being afraid of what you want and getting things done. don't be afraid to ask what you want, because memany times i fi
beat around the point. you've got to develop the courage to say this is what i'm after, this is what i'm in it for. this is what i want. and start from there and go back. as long as you avoid the point, you're really insecure about making the point. you know, i'm really excited about my new book. if you'd like to read an excerpt, please go to our facebook page and find details about my next book signing in philadelphia tomorrow. i'll be at the free library of philadelphia on vine street at 12:00 noon tomorrow. i hope to see you all there. as i talk about the book, it's not just politics. in your personal life, on the job. don't be afraid to say what you want and stand up for it. that is how you go from being rejected to being who you want
to be. life is about learning lessons. and one lesson i learned in reporting that book is say what you want, don't be afraid. claim what you want, then you can be what you want. thanks for watching. fight on the right. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews out in los angeles. let me start with this. will they follow the money? the fat cats are finally calling halt. can the koch bros. divert the tea party types and birthers from driving the republican party and the country over a