Skip to main content

tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  March 15, 2014 3:00am-4:01am PDT

3:00 am
there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. we begin with a mystery and map. very latest reporting about the missing malaysian airlines flight. it's been a week since flight 370 left kuala lumpur heading north for beijing. air traffic control last contact with the plane 1:20 local time on saturday. the flight path should have taken the plane over the gulf of thailand. that's where the search began. early on in the search we got conflicting reports from officials about radar data that might have indicated the plane veered far away from the original flight plan west over the strait of malacca and toward
3:01 am
the indian ocean. it's been hard to know what to believe in this story with theories and reports floated and dismissed. one after another. check this out. this spot here over the gulf of thailand is the last known location we have for the plane. a late breaking report from "the new york times" suggests that the flight may, indeed, have veered west. now, the "times" reports that u.s. officials who have seen the malaysian data say military radar picked up the plane here heading southwest toward the island penang off the coast of malaysia and then again heading northwest across the strait of malacca toward that vast, vast indian ocean which we know is large and hard to search. now, that reporting from "the new york times" sourced to u.s. officials who say they've seen radar data from the malaysian military says the plane may have changed course twice after it disappeared from civilian radar. now, if this reporting holds up, we might possibly finally be getting closer to understanding at least where that boeing 777 was heading. with those 239 people onboard. and that remains a mystery at this point a week after the incident. tonight, u.s. officials also tell nbc news that the question
3:02 am
is whether the plane turned again after it reached that northern edge of the strait of malacca. malaysian officials believe the plane went north, but u.s. officials say it appears far more likely that the plane went south toward the indian ocean. now, these accounts fit, of course, a pattern with this story. there are clues. there are multiple sources investigating and conflicting ideas about the missing plane. now, from the outset, this search has been complicated by the sometimes difficult relationship among officials from all these different nations involved. malaysian officials have taken the lead since the plane is malaysian. more than a dozen countries have joined the search for the plane. officials from the u.s. are now expressing increasing frustration with the pace and the quality of information that they have gotten from their counterparts in malaysia. and now the u.s. has begun shifting its military planes and ships toward the vast indian ocean where the search area is big enough to challenge even the most advanced tech following. >> there's no way you can search
3:03 am
the entire indian ocean. a ship, it is an amazing platform, but it can't be done with ships alone, and even our p3 and p8 with a range of a thousand or so miles, they'll have to return. >> now, at this stage of the search, investigators have no choice but to consider a huge swath of territory. we also got confirmation today that the plane continued to send pings, those are those little automated kind of electronic hellos once an hour to commercial satellites overhead. now, based on the record of those pings, u.s. investigators are saying the plane continued flying for those four or five hours after it disappeared. and the company that owns those satellites, well, it confirmed today that, quote, routine automated signals were registered on its network from that flight. we also know that many of the sources and announcements about this international incident have not held up compared to less intricate stories, in fact, there are more tipsters and
3:04 am
anonymous sources that prove off base or really flat wrong and still if this reporting today holds up, if the data from the military radar and the commercial satellite proves to be solid, then here is the emerging picture. a plane drops out of contact 40 minutes into its flight. then it continues flying in the wrong direction for hours. changing course at least twice and then mystery. over the past week, investigators have followed leads about oil slicks that turned out not to be connected to the plane. they followed up on the supposed sightings of debris that turned out to be logs lashed together in one case and a lid of a large crate in another case. wednesday, the chinese government released satellite images taken near the plane's intended flight path. that seemed interesting, maybe cool. pictures can usually offer a view of the facts on the ground or at least on the water, right? not this time. the chinese government later said it was a complete mistake to even release those pictures. we do know the plane's communications system shut down soon after takeoff.
3:05 am
first the data reporting system. 26 minutes into the flight. then the automatic transponder several minutes later. now, it is rare that big commercial airlines disappear for any reason. when it happens, and the plane remains missing, there are a few basic theories of the case. either this is a complete accident, a technical or human failure, or it's the result of someone acting on purpose. the hints and clues emerging today did turn toward that second and honestly more frightening possibility. here is reuters today pursuing that second theory, reporting unnamed sources say the evidence suggested that someone deliberately flew the plane west. now, again, that's away from its original intended route. the sources in that reuters article assert it appears the plane was following standard established navigational points. what does that mean? well, it was on a course even if it was not on the course it was expected to take. now, does that reporting hold up and get more solid in the hours
3:06 am
and days to come or fall apart as we cautioned? if this is not an accident but an act of terrorism or some kind, a deliberate act, it's worth noting no one appears to have tried to take credit for it. on the other hand, we looked at this today and found most acts of terrorism do go completely unclaimed. we have seen credible claims for just 14% of all terrorist acts since 1998. a lot of them start as mysteries and confoundingly, frustratingly, they stay mysteries. >> whatever the outcome of this mystery, the disappearance of malaysia airlines flight 370 entered their second week with investigators hoping they'll get enough information to narrow this seemingly infinite search. a senior u.s. official told "the new york times" today investigators expect to get more satellite and radar data over the weekend. "it's gotten better and better every day. it should provide more clarity to the flight path. it's not a given, but it's a hope." joining us now is jim tillmon,
3:07 am
former pilot for the u.s. military who spent 29 years as a commercial pilot for american airlines. he is now a science and aviation expert based in chicago. mr. tillmon, thanks for being here. >> thank you, ari. >> let's start with what we've been discussing. if the plane, did, in fact, alter its course more than once, what does that tell us, there was definitely a live human being at the controls? >> i would think so. you know, we've had all kinds of theories about it and all kinds of things. catastrophe that took place and all of a sudden in all kinds of things began to happen and failing communications gear and navigation gear and all that. but apparently there's somebody that was at the controls. what they were doing, i'm not so sure. there was one report where the airplane was unexpectedly climbed to some crazy altitude
3:08 am
above its surface ceiling then dropped at a rapid rate to another altitude. and there are all kinds of reports that the airplane turned one way and then back another way and then another way. it's pretty obvious somebody was in there doing something. was there a fight going on in the cockpit? was that creating this kind of crazy flying? when they did finally finish all this up and down and everything else and the airplane was flying relatively smoothly, was there somebody at the controls that was doing that? did they do it on their own? was there a gun in the air or the captain? we have those questions. we have bad answers we've been getting throughout this entire week. >> yeah, i understand what you're saying there. when you look at this around the country and around the world, people are both fascinated and scared. when you have this kind of mystery. in the newsroom, everyone is talking to each other, asking, well, does it usually transpire this way that there are so many theories of the case and even reports that turn out to be so off base? >> well, there are almost always cases that we do get some wrong information early on in an investigation. that's not so rare.
3:09 am
what's rare now is that we're getting conflicting information from places that we're not supposed to get conflicting information. and think about it, ari. look at all the times we've been getting information from a source unnamed that cannot reveal their identity because they're not authorized to make statements. i want to hear from the guys that are authorized. it's about time. is there anybody in this thing that's authorized to talk? is there anybody that can just say, okay, i'm john doe and i have such and such credentials and telling you now this is what i've found. that's what we need. we need clarity to this situation. we're not getting it so far. >> yeah, walk us through that. you have experience as a military and commercial airline pilot. what would the authorization be, at least in the american context where we would have some kind of chain of command or formal process whereby presumably we'd get more briefings, more hard intel? >> yes, when we have incidents in the united states and our airspace, we end up having a
3:10 am
spokesperson from the ntsb or whatever, sometimes from the faa. but we have a person that you can go to and say, okay, what's the latest? this is it. that person is not going to give you guesswork. they're going it tell you what the true skinny is, the best they know. if they don't know, they're going to tell you, i don't know that yet. you know, some people are saying, well, maybe they're shrouding this in secrecy because they're going to give away all their secrets if they tell us the true facts. come on. what's so secret about an airplane full of people that's missing for a week? just tell us what you know, and make sure what you tell us is true and accurate. think about this, ari. >> yeah, go ahead. >> think about a timeline that we would love to see. they went from the time of takeoff until right now. and we can program and plot on that timeline these different events and these different claims that are coming down the pipe. that would give us a lot more information than we're getting right now, and i'd like to see it. >> i would, too. i mean, that's what people want. it goes to something deeper here
3:11 am
which is, of course, when there are affirmative statements out there, the unnamed sources as you mentioned, that puts, i think, a greater obligation on the authorities including the authorities in malaysia to suss out what's real here. jim tilmon, former military and civilian aviation pilot. thanks for your time tonight. >> my pleasure, ari. >> absolutely. we have lots more to come including a critical moment in the ukraine crisis. an escalating feud between congress and the cia. very important. and a u.s. senator getting absolutely owned in a debate about, yes, the affordable care act. stay with us. it's a growing trend in business: do more with less with less energy. hp is helping ups do just that. soon, the world's most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance, using forty percent less energy. multiply that across over a thousand locations, and they'll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60,000 trees. that's a trend we can all get behind.
3:12 am
salegets up to 795 highwayeal's the passamiles per tank.sel salesperson #2: actually, we're throwing in a $1,000 fuel reward card. we've never done that. that's why there's never been a better time to buy a passat tdi clean diesel. husband: so it's like two deals in one? avo: during the salesperson #2: first ever exactly. volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a passat tdi, that gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. and get a $1000 dollar fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months on tdi models.
3:13 am
3:14 am
cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪ or not? what if they embrace new technology instead? ♪ imagine a company's future with the future of trading. company profile. a research tool on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade.
3:15 am
so in 2003, the state of new york all-out banned smoking. no more smoking in restaurants. no more smoking in bars, at work. basically anywhere in the entire state of new york. so that year the u.n. secretary general decided that that ban should extend to the u.n. headquarters which is based here in new york. that annoyed many diplomats including then-russian u.n. ambassador lavrov. he's a chain smoker. not only did it annoy him, he made a case like a diplomat that the secretary general has no right to stop them from smoking, that he exceeded legitimate authority. "the u.n. building is owned by all the member nations. while the secretary general is just a hired manager" he said at the time. yes, lavrov questioned the legal basis for creating a new rule at the u.n. he at least had an argument here. the u.n. is not actually technically american property. it is in new york but designated
3:16 am
as an international zone. he said the rule required an international vote. naturally. so what's a putin diplomat to? well, lavrov decided he would ignore that new rule and continued to smoke in the building. whether or not lavrov's argument holds any water, the incident does provide a window into how he operates. mr. lavrov is now, of course, the russian foreign minister and not much has changed. he was known to clash with former u.s. secretary of state colin powell, made a habit of pushing condoleezza rice's buttons. in 2012 he called hillary clinton's comments about the syrian conflict hysterical. yes, he has a history with being gruff with a lot of his counter parts until 2013 rolled around and things actually did seem to change a little bit. this is now secretary of state john kerry and mr. lavrov. this is not a one of a kind photo. last year these two were able to negotiate a groundbreaking deal
3:17 am
to get syria to eliminate weapons, possibly saved us from bombing syria and promise to rid another country of chemical weapons. whether it's syria or getting iran to sign on to a nuclear deal, these two have at times, at least in the old times been called a diplomatic dream team and they have until recently been known to get things done. they appear to have what we would call a relationship. "the new york times" reported last year they formed a bond quickly over late-night dinners and drinks and garden strolls. john kerry loves soccer. lavrov loves soccer. now their shared hobbies are a defining way to understand the entire geostrategic issues in the region. diplomacy, words and deeds between counterparts, not just a shared love of wine. but these guys have been able to work together diplomatically and because they see eye to eye diplomatically, president obama did dispatch john kerry to london last night to meet with lavrov, to see if they could get together and ease some of this escalating tension with russia. in, of course, a part of ukraine
3:18 am
called crimea. two weeks ago russia moved into the region. president obama announced sanctions. putin sent more troops in. the situation continues to escalate. tensions at an all-time high. last week, crimea of course announced plans for a specific referendum to vote on secession from ukraine and possibly join the russian federation. the vote for that happens in two days on this sunday. and yesterday we learned of a growing buildup of russian troops along the eastern ukrainian border. rachel talked about that last night. it's leaving everyone worried this is some kind of prelude to another invasion, possibly of the rest of ukraine. so the diplomatic dream team had their emergency meeting of sorts today. a last-ditch meeting at the home of the u.s. ambassador in london. they sat in the garden and talked. after three hours of talking, look here, they decided to take a walk. four hours later, they then took a seat there by the flowers. and after six hours of walking and talking and doing more
3:19 am
talking, they emerged looking like, well, looking like that with no real easing of any tension. kerry said the talks were direct, candid and frank, but with no diplomatic conclusion. >> i was clear with foreign minister lavrov that the president has made it clear there will be consequences if russia does not find a way to change course. and we don't say that as a threat. we say that as a direct consequence of the choices that russia may or may not choose to make here. >> all right. words matter. not a threat, secretary kerry said, but a consequence of russia's own choices. and secretary lavrov walked out of that six-hour meeting with his own strong and clear words that russia and the u.s. have no common vision of this situation. making it clear that russia isn't prepared to commit to just about anything in relation to ukraine before that referendum on sunday.
3:20 am
six hours of talking, usually six-hour meetings of diplomats means three hours of conversation and then, well, three hours of translation. but in this session, kerry and lavrov spoke english. lavrov is perfectly fluent. this really was a six-hour power session with apparently no real diplomatic conclusion. so what do we make of that? what does that mean in the light of the referendum on crimea this weekend? joining us, william taylor. ambassador taylor is vice president at the u.s. institute for peace. ambassador taylor, thanks for joining us tonight. >> glad to be here. >> let's start with words and diplomacy. we are accustomed to following these meetings whether long or short and hearing very parsed, careful summaries. we heard something, i think, more blunt today, right? >> we did. it's clear that through the six
3:21 am
hours of discussions, they did not agree. secretary kerry made it very clear what we had in mind and mr. lavrov had a very different view. we have different views on what should happen on sunday which is this referendum. we don't think that should happen. >> and we don't think, according to the u.s. policy at this point, that it's legitimate, and yet, ambassador, when you look at these kind of meetings, they're surely not designed from the u.s. side as window dressing. walk us through, especially with your experience in these kind of forums, what happens when you have one side like the obama administration trying to get something out, and apparently putin happy to talk and talk and listen and listen but not moving an inch? >> not moving an inch. mr. putin does seem to be sure that he's going to allow this referendum to go forward in violation of the ukrainian constitution, in violation of international law, in violation of his commitments to the
3:22 am
international community. he understands, i believe, that this will isolate him. he's already been isolated. the europeans have been very clear that they will take measures as sanctioned people around the president. they will not be able to travel to europe. they'll not be able to have access to their london townhouses. this is a big problem for many people in russia, and yet it doesn't seem to bother president putin. secretary kerry has made it clear that we will take further steps. the united states will take further steps if this referendum takes place and if the russians proceed on that basis to annex crimea. so this discussion apparently went back and forth for some time, and neither side convinced the other. >> and ambassador, as the u.s. says it will take those further steps and secretary kerry, again, spoke at least about the russian markets and severe economic consequences in result
3:23 am
of further action, it is clear that russia is amassing, as we've been reporting last night and today, troops on the border of ukraine in a different area looking toward eastern ukraine. russia is taking its own actions here. how concerned should we be? >> i believe we should be very concerned. the size of the troops the russians have amassed on their side of the border is very troubling. it's not just troops. it's equipment. it's mobile equipment. it has the capability. these troops, equipment, these forces have the ability to move across the border. they've been putting other things across the border already. that is provocateurs. the russians have been busing young men into ukrainian cities across the border in ukraine and causing difficulties. causing problems. causesing riots. people pushing back and forth. there was a man killed yesterday. one of the people who are supporting the kiev government was killed in one of those pushes that was prompted by the
3:24 am
russian provocateurs coming across the border. so that is a very dangerous situation with those kinds of troops sitting close by. >> and briefly, ambassador, how much of this conflict ultimately turns on the fact this is much more important land to russia than it will ever be to the u.s. or many european countries? this is not our cuba. this is not our hawaii. >> this is not territorially important for the united states, but there's a very important principle for us and even more important for the europeans. if europe goes from the atlantic to the euros, then ukraine is smack in the middle. ukraine is in the middle of europe. it's a european country. it hopes to be able to live by european rules. it hopes -- it would like to join european institutions. it would like to have the ability to make that choice, themselves. and this is a value. this is a principle that we care about as well. rules that have governed the european continent since 119
3:25 am
1945, through the cold war, since the cold war meant borders don't change. what president putin is threatening is to change borders by force and this ought to concern us all. >> understood. appreciate your insights tonight especially given all your service in the region. william taylor, former u.s. ambassador to ukraine. thank you very much. >> thank you. now turning to some politics. if you are a fan of amazing verbal smack downs of u.s. senators, who isn't, well, we have a piece of tape i think you should see. it's on the subject of health care, but it is about, well, total ownership. it's coming up. stay with us. my sinuses are actp and i've got this runny nose. i better take something. truth is, sudafed pe pressure and pain won't treat all of your symptoms. really? alka seltzer plus severe sinus fights your tough sinus symptoms plus your runny nose. oh what a relief it is she tossed and turned and couldn't turn off her mind. it was hard for her to sleep, even one little ounce.
3:26 am
then she discovered tide, downy, and bounce. soothing scents for your sheets, your pj's, too. the sweet dreams collection -- it's a breakthrough! the moral of this tale shouldn't be controversial. buy the sweet dreams collection, because this is a commercial. shh! no! shh! ♪ [ click ] ♪ i'm bethand i'm michelle. and we own the paper cottage. it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase. so you can. ♪ ♪
3:27 am
[ female announcer ] with five perfectly sweetened whole grains... you can't help but see the good.
3:28 am
3:29 am
former massachusetts senator scott brown is no longer a senator. and he's apparently no longer from massachusetts. today he was in, yes, new hampshire, where he's now from-ish, speaking at a gop leadership conference and though he no longer is a senator from massachusetts anymore, he does still have his reliable pickup truck and he's got stories. >> for about a year now, i've been traveling all over this state talking to folks and supporting good candidates, good people. i've traveled so much in new hampshire, i'm focusing on a new personal milestone. the truck now has about 300,000 miles on it. >> scott brown is also officially out of work as of today but has his eyes on a specific job. who might be hiring? well, that story is coming up next.
3:30 am
"stubborn love" by the lumineers did you get my email? i did. so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok? ...but what about when my parents visit? ok. i just love this one... and it's next to a park. i love it. i love it too. here's our new house... daddy! you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen.
3:31 am
funny, there was no mention of hail in the weather report. go & smell the roses! [ female announcer ] one drop of ultra dawn has twice the everyday grease cleaning ingredients of one drop of the leading non-concentrated brand... to clean 2x more greasy dishes. dawn does more. so it's not a chore. hey kevin...still eating chalk for hearburn? yea. try alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heart burn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. alka-seltzer fruit chews.
3:32 am
enjoy the relief! afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. happy friday. it is a friday, and one way to know that it's friday, if you're in the news business, anyway, is this is the day politicians use
3:33 am
for dumping bad news or releasing documents. sometimes in a newsroom, you kind of only realize the week's winding down when you see e-mails flying about thousands of pages of political memos that are suddenly available. and, yes, today being friday, the political world just got 4,000 documents newly released by the national archives from president clinton's two terms in office. it's another installment in a larger series of 30,000 files. such as presidential notes and memos and speech drafts which have always been withheld. now. 12 years after the clinton administration ended. we now know he wanted to underscore how big his budget surplus was by calling it a certain kind of pocket full of cash, but, hey, a big surplus can bring out the lbj cursing in any president. so why the delay? well, this category of documents had been technically exempt from certain rules that would have required earlier disclosure. if there's a rule or exemption
3:34 am
or a delay that presidents and their agencies can use to hold back files, even like uninteresting files, well, they often try to use it. now imagine what a fight looks like over interesting files. or incriminating files. well, you know, that's what we often call evidence. and that is, of course, the issue facing the cia and the obama administration right now. will they declassify and release documents that the senate intelligence committee is seeking? there are the 9,000 documents the committee would like to get its hands on and the intelligence agencies won't give those up. the white house so far isn't making them. now according to the committee, thousands of pages of secret documents are crucial to the ongoing investigation into cia detention and so-called interrogation carried out during the bush years. the committee also wants the cia to stop thwarting the declassification of the senate committee's own investigative report about the program. and yet, at the same time, we already have some of the most pivotal government memoranda on
3:35 am
this issue. why? well, back in 2009, president obama in what was one of the first big calls he had to make as president, well, he had to decide whether or not to release some important legal memoranda that were drawn up during the bush era that made a legal case and purported to provide legal authority for those practices that appeared to be torture. the obama administration was actually being sued over those documents and the files became known as the torture memos. 2009, president obama stopped the government from fighting a lawsuit and released many torture memos to the public. he also importantly discontinued their legal authority. effectively ending any protection for that kind of interrogation or torture. now, even with redactions, the torture memos show the bush administration lawyers constructed illegal authorization of the practice of what amounted to torture in late 2002. a practice that was ongoing in the months and years of 9/11.
3:36 am
the memos specifically okayed things like putting a prisoner in, quote, stress positions or slamming them against the wall and as many remember, waterboarding. those were some of the techniques used against detainees after 9/11. and while at first some did claim that accidents like abu ghraib were rogue actions by a few bad apples, we know these actions were far of the official policy because, well, because those incriminating memos were released. at the time the cia requested a cover there, a request that being granted it ended with the drafting of the torture memos by senior lawyers at the justice department. the rest? a lot of it is history. there are officials who did resist the program, who raised red flags. ultimately, most of those people lost and most programs went on. that's how the u.s. came to pursue detention and interrogation in ways that are being investigated to this day. and, well, whatever happened to those people who wrote the legal justification for the u.s. to engage in torture who are the subject of this investigation?
3:37 am
have they paid a price? well, let's look. the main lawyer at the doj who drafted many of those documents is now a law professor at the university of california at berkeley. the guy who literally signed the memos, assistant attorney general at doj at the time is a federal judge. yeah. he got a promotion. white house chief counsel alberto gonzalez who's said to have signed off on the details day-by-day. mr. gonzalez is back in private practice. he teaches courses in, well, the constitution and separation of powers. because irony. as for the cia lawyers who initiated all of that authorization of torture, one just wrote a book about his 30 years doing legal work at the cia. some of the others are still at the cia. some are defending the aftermath of these activities during the bush era. it's that aftermath the senate intelligence committee is seeking to unravel. this past tuesday, that's when we saw on the senate floor that long, detailed and sharply critical speech from the normally cia friendly chair, the senate intelligence committee,
3:38 am
senator dianne feinstein. she held the floor for 40 minutes and admonished the cia. not just for with holding the information, but also for literally trying to cover up these activities. she accused the cia as going as far as illegally monitoring and spying on congress to keep information out of the committee's hands. that's what rachel called death of the republic type stuff. she accused one cia lawyer specifically, a lawyer who was allegedly involved in crafting the torture program, someone who's a key subject of this investigation. a guy who until today, get this, was still working as cia lawyer in charge of coordinating with the senate, the keyword there, until, because he was effectively sidelined. finally. this is the news today. the cia got a new top lawyer, a post that had not had a permanent occupant for some time because of that feud between the intelligence community and cia. now, there's still a tooth and nail fight to keep the
3:39 am
investigation sealed. like many, the secrets being with held from the public seem closer and closer to coming to light. will the white house and cia make this evidence accessible to the public? are we closer to holding those accountable ten years later? our next guest tried a third way to put a stop to torture when he was the top lawyer within the defense department at the navy during the bush administration. he was on the inside. and he challenged and tried to undo practices that had been justified in part by those same torture memos. joining us now is alberto mora, former general counsel of the navy. now a fellow at harvard university. an honor to have you. thanks for being here. >> thanks so much, ari. >> let's start with this report that is still, as i mentioned, classified and the cia, according to senator feinstein, is in the way of releasing the senate report. why would it be important to actually get that report out now? >> well, i think president obama had it just right. he said that in discussing this
3:40 am
week, his support for the release of the document. he said it was important to know where we had been. and it's important to serve as a guide to where we're going and he got it right on both counts. >> when you look at these tensions between the cia and congress and they're playing out so publicly. i want to ask you, does it have anything to do in your view with the fact we have never really had a reckoning for those torture practices? >> that's exactly right. the nation hasn't really yet come to grips adequately with what we did and what the consequences of those acts were. what's more, there are a large number of american people according to some polls, maybe 50% of the american public that believe vaguely or generally it may be okay to use torture in defending the country. it's important we understand that that would be a mistake, as it was a mistake to use torture and official cruelty during the war on terror. in making these critical decisions, we have to understand the facts of this ill-fated
3:41 am
experiment with torture. >> when we talk about separation of powers, it can sound so abstract to people or sounds like a constitutional law seminar. yet what senator feinstein alleged here as we've reported is very serious because if her allegations are true, it is the cia potentially illegally using these tools against the very congress that's investigating its conduct. walk us through that combat. that pitched combat between these two branches. contrast it if you would to your experience. you are on the inside of the executive working within the navy, overseeing hundreds of lawyers. yet you've made strides from within the system pushing back against those torture memos. >> the case for the concern about the cia actions was laid out by senator feinstein in her 40-minute speech on the senate floor. if you read the transcript and watch her presentation, you saw that the congress had reached an agreement with the cia
3:42 am
concerning the way that the cia documents would be handled. and then the independence of the senate investigators in looking at the documents and analyzing them without interference from the cia. senator feinstein is alleging that the cia broke those rules, interfered with the senate's investigation by withdrawing documents and then in essence spying on the senate investigators who were preparing the analysis of the interrogation activities. now, the cia through the personnel director john brennan who's a very serious man like senator feinstein is take a different view. they say that's not exactly what happened and frankly it's unclear who's got the better side of the argument yet. we need to allow the justice department to take a look at this and come to their own conclusions about the merits of each set of allegations. but let's remember the larger question. which is equally a constitutional question. will we continue to use cruelty and torture as weapons of war in defense of the united states or in defensive activities? those are also as serious a
3:43 am
question as whether or not congress is able to establish and maintain separation of powers and engage in independent oversight or executive branch activities. >> mr. mora, briefly, your view of the cia acting general counsel making that crimes report referral to the doj regarding the senate investigators? >> that's also not clear. there may have been basis for, in fact, maybe an obligation for the cia acting general counsel to make that kind of report, but, of course, senator feinstein takes a very different position. she felt it was clear that the agreement between the cia and the senate was such that there was no possible allegation of criminal activity or suspicion of criminal activity on the part of senate investigators. so, again, it's one of these investigation, the outcome of which will depend upon the facts of the case. those aren't clear yet. >> understood. appreciate your noted caution there and how we interpret that. her charges being very serious, as you mentioned. and appreciate your time with all of your service and your work on these issues. alberto mora, former general counsel of the navy. thank you. >> thank you, ari. >> absolutely.
3:44 am
now back to some politics. what happens when senators who are not doctors ask leading questions of, you know, real doctors? amazing video of actual doctors schooling senators. you might have seen that coming, but the video is up next. starts with back pain... ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. "start your engines" [ mawhile a body in motionat restends to stay in motion... staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain and improve daily physical function so moving is easier. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen,
3:45 am
naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. hi boys! i've made you campbell's chunky new england clam chowder. wow! this is incredible! i know. and now it has more clams! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. what? [ male announcer ] it fills you up right.
3:46 am
[ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. what? c'mon, you want heartburn? when your favorite food starts a fight, fight back fast, with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact. and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum... tums! is really what makes it slike two deals in one.he $1,000 fuel reward card salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time to buy a jetta tdi clean diesel. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event get a great deal on a jetta tdi. it gets 42 highway miles per gallon. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. volkswagen has the most tdi clean diesel models of any brand. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months on tdi models. what is this place? where are we? this is where we bring together the fastest internet
3:47 am
and the best in entertainment. we call it the x1 entertainment operating system. it looks like the future! we must have encountered a temporal vortex. further analytics are necessary. beam us up. ♪ that's my phone. hey. [ female announcer ] the x1 entertainment operating system, only from xfinity. tv and internet together like never before. the number of people who
3:48 am
signed up is already large enough that i'm confident the program will be stable, but we look forward to seeing more and more people take advantage of it as some of the politics of the thing get drained away. >> that is president obama saying in no uncertain terms the affordable care act and its reforms to the insurance market are working. and viable right now. so as a matter of policy, even despite the glitches in the rollout and political messaging problems and despite the many, many obamacare horror stories we've heard about including some that were missing key facts, well, according to the president the new insurance markets have enough new participants to work as planned. of course, while the president briefed the nation on how the aca is reaching critical mass, what were congressional republicans doing? well, they were opposing the evils of obamacare. of course. in the house, they held what amounted to the 51st vote against the core of the aca. this was a measure to delay the individual mandate for a year. and it passed. this stuff always passes the house. it's like, you know, their best
3:49 am
thing. so the president says the aca has enough signups to sustain itself. the house passes a dead on arrival bill. number 51. trying to wreck the aca. what was going on in the senate about health reform? well, it happened earlier this week at a senate subcommittee hearing on health care systems around the whole world. senator richard burr, republican from north carolina who opposes just about anything associated with the aca, well, he thought he had a testifying doctor there boxed in about the flawed health system in her country which happens to be canada where they really do have socialized medicine. her name is dr. danielle martin. dr. martin is the vice president, the women's college hospital in toronto. a hospital that works within canada ice system. and senator burr is a senator. >> you know canadian doctors exiting the public system in the sector have an increasing
3:50 am
waiting list for public health care. why aren't doctors exiting the health care in canada? >> thank you for your question, senator. if i didn't express myself in the way to make myself understood, i apologize. there are no doctors exiting the public system in canada. in fact, we see a net influx of physicians from the united states into the canadian system over the last number of years. >> okay. fact check. then the senator referred to testimony from dr. martin that apparently didn't exist. that's not great. he wasn't done. waiting times for those in the canadian health care system are a problem that people criticize. so senator burr picked up on that point. >> how many canadian patients on a waiting list die each year, do you know? >> i don't, sir. i know there are 45,000 in america who die waiting because they don't have insurance at all. >> i think it's fair to say dr. martin came prepared for that kind of question from senator burr and numbers are backed up by a study from the american journal of public health.
3:51 am
so lesson learned, maybe. if you're going to be talking to a doctor about her health care system. it pays to come prepared. dr. martin didn't simply counterpunch in that hearing on the fact checking. she also -- this was really interesting. she left the subcommittee with a final thought on those wait times in lines, a big issue and the allocation of resources. >> you know, i waited more than 30 minutes at the security line to get into this building today. when i arrived in the lobby, i noticed across the hall there was a second entry point with no lineup whatsoever. sometimes it's not actually about the amount of resources you have, but rather about how you organize people in order to use your cues most effectively. that's what we're working to do. we believe when you try to address wait times you should do it in a way that benefits everyone, not just people who can afford to pay. >> yes, there are two major routes into most senate office buildings. a security line which dr. martin mentioned for everyone.
3:52 am
long, winding lines. about everyone is forced to wait there. then there is, of course, the senators only lines. they whisk the privileged 100 into the building where they ride the senator only elevators. you want to talk about wait time, senator? have you thought about the wait times where you work? this was a stealthy and substantive dig. the fate of the affordable care act remains to be seen. the political fate of democrats who support it will not be certain for months or even years depending on how you count. but the fate of the republican talking points about health care systems here, about how we count and how many people we include and whether we care to count everyone, everyone's health care, and everyone's wait times, well, those kind of talking points, they rarely survive sustained contact with reality. are you ready grandma? just a second, sweetie. [ female announcer ] we eased your back pain, you turned up the fun.
3:53 am
tylenol® provides strong pain relief while being gentle on your stomach. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®. so i'm going pro. [ male announcer ] new crest tartar protection rinse. the only rinse that helps prevent tartar build-up and cavities. a little swishing. less scraping. yes! [ male announcer ] new crest pro-health tartar protection rinse. it helps you escape the scrape.
3:54 am
3:55 am
marge: you know, there's. a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. ♪ ♪ ♪
3:56 am
on election night in 2012, it was mitt romney who came out on the losing end that night marking the end of mitt romney's political career we think. there was another massachusetts political loss, scott brown for senate. senator scott brown in massachusetts was up for re-election facing what everybody considered an up hill climb. massachusetts is a blue state. president obama was on the ballot, which is going to drive up democratic voters against a strong challenger, elizabeth warren. to the surprise of almost nobody by the end of it, mr. brown lost that night. he handed the senate seat back to the democrats and handed his top adviser, a man who worked for romney, the second loss in one night. he handed the country a question that up until today, up until today remained unanswered. what will scott brown do next. almost from the minute he lost the senate seat in 2012, there's
3:57 am
been an unending stream from politicos about what he would do from massachusetts. would he run for john kerry's old senate seat? no, he would not. run the path of the failed cants in the past, joining fox news? yes, he would. he did that. comic relief on twitter? he would for those what remember that one. today, he answered the biggest unanswered question. would he attempt to pull off the rarest of feets to win back his senate seat from another state? yes. today scott brown answered that question. >> i have formed an exploratory committee to prepare a campaign for the united states senate. >> the most important words were in new hampshire. scott brown of massachusetts made it official he's running for the u.s. senate in a new state. he was introduced as scott brown
3:58 am
from new hampshire. he spent much of his speech detailing his roots in new hampshire. they have, actually, for a long time maintained a second home in new hampshire, where they now reside. after the speech today, the new hampshire democratic party said this -- >> nobody does it better than massachusetts, folks. i'm going to do what i think is right for massachusetts. >> i'm a republican from massachusetts. >> i'm a massachusetts republican. i'm proud to be from massachusetts. >> i'm also a proud citizen of massachusetts. i'm from here. i'll probably die here. we still live here. i'm from massachusetts. >> scott brown had been flirting for months with pursuing that senate seat. that ad is politically what he has to look forward to. he has to get through a gop primary. if he does, he's taking on a sitting democratic senator, gene shaheen. before that, she was can
3:59 am
governor of new hampshire. before that, a member of the state senator. she's a local quantity. scott brown has had a vacation home there for a long time. if he decides to get into the race, which is probable, there are two challenges. he's got to convince new hampshire he's the best to represent them in the senate. that's always the case. number two, he has to convince them he is one of them. it's not like it's never been done before. it hasn't been done that often. it happened here in new jersey. robert f. kennedy and hillary clinton weren't from here, but they did manage to shed any of that carpet bagger stigma and win over the hearts and votes of new yorkers. they never tried to win after already serving in the same body from another state. according to the u.s. senate historical office, that thing has only been done twice in u.s. history and not since the 1870s. today, scott brown took the first steps to trying to pull it
4:00 am
off and he has less than eight months to do it. a lot of work. well, that does it for us tonight. rachel will be back here on monday. if you want to follow me on t t twitter you can. stunning news on that missing plane. officials now say it was a deliberate action that took it off course. no one know where is the plane is, yet. >> seven days ago, malaysia airlines flight mh 370 -- >> malaysian officials are not confirming it is a hijacking incident. there's surprising word on that. the brink in ukraine, what happens after the vote in crimea? will russia move in and might ther

85 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on