tv NOW With Alex Wagner MSNBC July 21, 2014 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
. don't miss ed shulsz tonight, but now it's lauren wagner. >> the bodies of mh-17 victims finally depart the crash scene en route to the day's heaviest fighting. it is monday july 21st and this is now life from los angeles. >> what exactly are they trying to hide? >> today is first international investigators arrived in ukraine. >> unfortunately the russian backed separatists continue to block the -- >> vladimir putin ordered russian separatists to let international investigators get to the site. >> this is an insult to those who have lost loved ones. >> two times, three times, four times headed to the crash site. >> the war there is raging on.
>> it does seem like a demilitarized zone. >> how much did vladimir putin know, how much was he encoura encouraging them? >> is putin a rationalal actor? >> putin ought to own up. >> we have to make sure that the truth is out. >> i'm coming from the los angeles convention center at the annual meeting for the national council. first we are following the latest news in the crash of malaysian flight 17. reports over the weekend about obstruction and confiscation of evidence from the crash site by russian separatists. president obama laid out his bomb line. >> the separatist are removing ed from the crash site. so it begs the question what are they trying to hide.
president putin needs to cooperate with the investigation, that is the least they can do. >> finally departed the crash site. this afternoon separatist rebels -- positive developments came after president putin in an early morning video message pledged cooperation at the crash site and called for a diplomatic solution to the crisis in ukraine. president obama commended putin's -- warned of any continued support for the separatists. >> if russia continues to violent ukraine's sovereignty and backs the separatists the separatists only become more dangerous. the cost for russia will only
continue to increase. >> the white house has jet to announce anything beyond its second round of sanctions and a more aggressive congress has another idea. send lethal arms to ukraine. >> especially the united states which has the capability to do it to begin in ernest arming the ukrainian military. >> that could pass the congress on a bipartisan basis. >> as for america's european allies, the rhetoric has gotten tougher. the u.n. secure council has voted on a resolution on all states to cooperate fully, demanding, quote, that those responsible continue to be held to account. former u.s. ambassador to nato and professor at the harvard kennedy school, ambassador nicholas burns. also on the phone is reporter
for vice news. should we be seeing these developments as positive ones? >> reporter: i think it's positive just because of the disaster that befell the people of ukraine and malaysian air a couple of days ago, president putin continues to say one thing and then he does another thing. he said this morning there should be a full-fledged international investigation, but then the separatists, the people he controls have been blocking the investigation. so the president had every r every right to go out and say what he did. he said it's up to russia to compel the observance of the investigation by the internation international investigators. he said there's got to be -- i think that's the next american priority for this week. >> simon, you're in eastern
ukraine, there are reports that there has been heavy fighting in c donesq donesque. >> i can't be confident of that at all. in fact i don't even know if the bodies of headed to donesk. we know that they departed a station in refrigerated carria e carriages. some international investigators have been allowed on to the scene now, changed from yesterday and the day before, when members of the osc weren't allowed to access the entirety of the site. but today, the situation in donesk has changed drastically because we have seen some of the heaviest fighting in the area in
the last couple of weeks, some ukrainian battalions were moving into the northern part of the city and there was fighting at the train station and the airport. heavy artillery shelling and just talking about the potential for an investigation. the potential for an investigation in those kinds of circumstances is really wishful thinking. >> what about the president's statement today, and i won't say threat, but suggestion that there will be further costs for russia if they continue to support the separatists and the u.s. congress in a bipart san fashion seems to think that arming the ukrainian government with lethal weapons may be a good idea. you look at this and this crisis seems to be a direct sort of result of people unintended consequence of putting lethal weapons in the middle of a war zone. do you think that we will move closer to that notion of actual action of providing lethal action to the ukrainian
government? >> we hope and i think the europe and the -- giving those arms to the ukrainian government, i think that's premat chir for a couple of reasons. right now we're on the high ground and we're telling the russians, look, get your arms out of there, stop ampling these rebels, let ukrainians settle this matter themselves and i'm not sure that the you cukrainia government can -- i do think that we are headed down toward tougher sanctions if putin continues to play what ambassador burns rightly says is saying one thing and doing another. this message came from the rebels and if it came fro the
rebels, it was a russian missile. because their energy comes, scotso much of their energy comes from russia, they have been reluctant to go all in. but i really do think this changes things, there really is a kind of a enough is enough kind of mood in europe. i think they will be open to tougher action against putin and that's what obama meant when he risks further isolation. and i think that's right. >> ambassador burns, senator dianne feinstein says that the u.s. should declassify its evidence pertaining to the crash site, what's your reaction to that. i think it's a good suggestion, ju just -- the russian government has been been supplying the russians with sufficient technology including the s.a.-11 system. they have consistently, the
russian government given advice and training for those separatists so the more that we can show that that's happening i think that illuminates the public opinion. the fact that there's a degree of responsibility here by president putin. last friday, ambassador samantha u powers said something that was very interesting, she said putin can end this civil war, but he chooses not to. so he has to be held accountable. we ought to focus this week on further sanctions towards russia and the really critical piece of this is that president bhaum has been willing for a long time to promote further sanctions, but he hasn't wanted to do that without the europeans going along with it. now is the time for the europeans to step up to the
plate. the central decision maker in europe and the europeans will be debating this tomorrow morning in brussels. i have to think that this incident will put the europeans in position to vote on those big sec torl sanctions, financial sanctions and sectors of the russian economy that really will make a difference because putin doesn't really care about what we say on msnbc, he doesn't care what the "new york times" says, he does care about the bottom line, which is the economic integration with western europe, that's the thought process the europeans need to attack. >> let me ask simon, since you're on the ground, isn't there a sense that the ukrainian separatists are going to listen to whatever putin wants to do? do you get a sense that the separatists have been cowed in any way by putin who is the puppet master. >> i think you need to
understand that among the public at large, there's a completely different understanding of what happened with the flight. they don't believe in russia, that it was even to reign them in, i think russia has some continued influence over the separatist, the number of leaders are actually russian citizens, but just the day before yesterday, the self declared prime minister of the self-declared prime minister was talking about how the investigation didn't go forward at the crash site wasn't because they were -- for some reason holding back the international investigators who were in kiev. so they've got a completely different reading on the situation, and it's -- with the
way the media has been reporting this in russia, putin has almost backed himself into a corner where he can't abandon the separatists. >> e.j., let me ask you, there are a lot of what it's in this situation. but if the west was in some way able to, bilaterally or multilateral by impose grater sanctions on russia, outcome unknown, was that quell some of the domestic squabbling. i think lindsay graham was singled out as one of those hyper bollic voices. if the president gets something done let's say in tandem with germany, does that placate his republican critics at all? >> there are some of his
republican critics who will never be placated and will say the word benghazi whenever anything comes up. but there's much more unity on this in washington and in the country than there is on a lot of other issues. people are angry at putin and this has shown how the russian presence in ukraine is dangerous to everybody, not simply to ukrain ukraine--i think the president has to continue to be out there and talking tough, and pushing, i think that will sort of quell some of the criticism. >> ambassador nicholas burns and e, thank you for your time and your thoughts. >> after the break, secretary kerry arrives in the middle east to talk peace, the sun sets on one of the deadliest days in
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gaza. >> that battle is now in it's 14th day and has taken the lives of over 500 palestinians and 27 israelis. in gaza, israel continued its artillery shelling including a hospital and a neighborhood where 16 palestinians and 13 israeli soldiers died yesterday in the conflict's single deadliest day. the u.n. is reporting 100,000 gazans are taking shelter at u.n. facilities. in the past 24 hours, israel says it has totally demolished tunnels. seven israeli soldiers were killed over the past 24 hours and today alone, hamas has fired over 76 rockets into israel. 14 of those were intercepted by the iron dome. secretary of state kerry arrived
in outside let me to broker a cease fire. >> let me start with you, if you could just give us a sense of the latest on the ground in gaza. >> sure, it's very quiet right now behind me, but off into the distance, we are hearing the sound of artillery shells landing inside gaza every few minutes, that has been the scene pretty much for the past several nights. this time of the day, the shelling and the fighting intensifies, you'll probably hear one in the course of the next few minutes. in addition to that in the coming hours, you'll see an intensification of some of that ground operation that the israelis do, they intend to carry out most of their advances at night time. to push into some of the areas where they are trying to destroy tunnels and supposed areas where there may be rockets and other weapons.
u.n. schools, the hospitals overwhelmed today again as you mentioned, one of those hospitals in central gaza destroyed, they had to evacuate all those patients and those who have retreated there. >> ben, we know that secretary kerry arrived in the area this afternoon with a goal to try to broker the cease fire. there was news yesterday that michael orrin thinks that kerry was not even invited to cairo and was not wanted in the peace talks. what is the acticuracy of that? >> kerry also had that moment where he was caught on a hot mike basically mocking the israeli operation. he's still someone who has av lt
of capital in israel. there's a limit to how much frustration you can get from the obama administration before the israelis are going to have to start back. >> the israeli defense forces like to remind the world that it gave civilians a warning to leave, but the question is where should is people of gaza go, we have 100,000 people in the region have been displaced by fighting. what are the resources like on the ground for refugees? well in short, this isn't really a conflict between two equal sides, the infrastructure in israel and the infrastructure in gaza completely on opposite ends of the spectrum. there are no missile defense systems to try and help the palestinian people from any of these israeli attacks in some of
these civilian areas. we have reported what it has been like for the palestinians and a lot of people we have been speaking to who either had telephone calls or warnings to leave or getting leaf lets dropped on their homes, they simply have nowhere to go. we have seen israel bombing city of city, area after area. it's not like they can leave from the north to the south or the east to the west. gaza is under siege, closing all it's borders and egypt closing it's border in the south. the palestinian population in gaza, they're simply being held hostage in the middle of this conflict, they're unable to get out. and as a result of that, the situation continues to worsen. the u.n. and held officials here are calling it catastrophic as a result of the ongoing fighting, alex. >> ben, you have magnum opus in the new republic in which you talk about when kerry assumed office as secretary of state, he said there was either one or two
years for peace between israel and palestine, do you think that is true and do you think that window may have closed. >>? >> it's a good question and we keep moving the goal post. there are a number of factors which are at play here which are moving. you have the fact that you have abbas who might leave office any time now, he was going to pave to the way for new elections before this situation flared up and you have is east settlement enterprise that continued to eat away at the fabric of a potential palestinian state, but i don't think anyone has declared the death of the situation yet. it gets harder and harder to envision two sides really coming to some sort of a deal, just when you look at how increasingly distrustful they are of each other. >> ben burnbalm and amy, thank you for your thoughts. president obama took a major step forward in the fight for
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doesn't make much sense but today millions of americans wake up and go to work with the awareness that they could lose their jobs, not because of anything they did or failed to do but because they are tra transgender, gay, bisexual. >> federal government employees already receive protection on the basis of sexual orientation,
but the extension to federal contractors is expected to affect the estimated 10.5 million workers who do not work full-time for the government. this order also explicitly and for the first time also protects worke workers -- nearly nine months after a bipartisan group of senators passed the employee nondiscrimination act which would protect lgbt workers nagtsz wide, republicans in the lower chamber virtually ignored it. >> i'm going to do what i can, with the authority i have to act. the rest of you, of course, need to keep putting pressure on congress to pass federal legislation to protect these people once and for all. >> amen. >> amen. amen. got the amen corner here.
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grants willingly turn themselves into border agents, but for politicians like texas governor rick perry, a little bit more motivation, a little or lot may help a lot. he says he plans to send up to 1,000 texas national guard troops to the rio grand valley. an operation that will cost texas taxpayers about $12 million a month. >> i will not stand idly by while our citizens are under siege. >> this is a civil matter, not a military matter. these are young people, just families coming across, they're not armed, they're not carrying weapons. meanwhile, president obama will meet with the leaders of guatemala, el salvador and
honduras this week, where they will sign a security agreement to fight drug related violence in the region. democratic representative from illinois's fourth district and chair of the immigration force. congressman luis gutierez. jose, here we are standing in front of the council on la raza's national convention, and there could not be a more timely backdrop to watch what's happening on the border. what is your reaction to rick perry's announcement that he's adding 1,000 national guard troops to the boarder? >> the reaction may be something totally different. i'm thinking that as we have seen, and you just mentioned, 53,000 kids have really been turning themselves in to authorities because they're in such very desperate situation, well, maybe 1,000 more folks on the border will act to get these kids quicker into american hand
and hopefully take care of them. the journey from central america to mexico to the united states, kids are dying trying to get to the u.s.-mexico border. maybe politically it's a wise decision, what it will do is let these kids get caught and found quicker so they may be able to get assistance quicker. but i got to tell you, the fact that they're being held in these places by themselves with other children they don't know, in a country they don't know, in a language they don't understand. the fear factor that they have been through, it's really tough to really consider just how dire these children feel their situation is. >> i wonder politically how this plays for rick perry on the national stage. because certainly there is a group of conservative republicans in his home state that have been pushing the message of and prehechbd appreh.
but having 1,000 national guardsmen take children go their custody is not necessarily a good one if you are trying to make a 2016 presidential bid. >> what they're trying to do, alex, is win the republican nomination, and it is very clear that the republican party is heeding the call of a small segment of their party. there are members of the republican party who want no immigration whatsoever. they won't reform the immigration system because they don't want any new ones and they don't want to fix the system that exists. look, he's going to have the visual. you remember this is the same governor perry who, during the 2012 presidential elections said don't you have a heart? and he challenged everybody else on the stage and then they beat the living daylights out of him. and he sure did run away from
that posture, unfortunately, republican candidates are beaten into submission when it comes on the issue of immigration and they leave good public policy in order to make good political staging for themselves in the upcoming primary and i think it's very, very sad. rem ask you or that note? weekend, lindsay graham, john cornyn says we can't elect another president in 2016 that gets 20% of the hispanic vote. i was shocked actually, given what the congressman points out, the two sides of the republican party on this, the sort of deport, no amnesty, no reform site seems to be the most vocal, but there's a part of the party and there are some elders that truly do and still maintain in a public fashion immigration performance and necessities. >> these elders as you call
them, realize that the facts are the facts, every month in this country, 50,000 u.s. born latinos turn 18 years of age. they do every single month. when they see this speech and how the words are used to describe this crisis, it will matter, it will matter, words matter. and so these elected officials, these elders understand that a lot of people in the republican party are worried about this november's election when maybe the latino vote doesn't have much to do with the election. and two years down the line -- >> and the latino community understands something, that this is really a demonization, right, of our community, because of the 11 million undocumented in this country, 5 million never cross that border, but they're never mentioned, it always occurs to them, why is it always the
border? if you steeled the border tomorrow, people would still be coming in undocumented to every port and every airport in this country. let's face it, 2012, alex and jose, we spent $18 billion on enforcement, immigration enforcement, that's more than the dea, fbi, all other federal enforcement together. and everybody in our community knows that the best year, if you want to call it a good year, was about 150,000 under george bush, deportation, barack obama, 400,000 on average the last few years. and there are 1.6 million a year under george bush. people understand that. i am still hoping that the president still has things he can do in terms of immigration, but the republican party still has a dance, an opportunity to set the record straight because
there are two million more latinos voted in 2008 than 2004. 2 million more voted in 2008 than 2004. i don't know what they want to do if they want to simply become a -- they can't do it as long as they continue the demonization of immigrants and latinos at the same time. >> i think it surprised a lot of congressional democrats that the white house came out so early and said we need to amend the 2008 trafficking victims act to make it easier to deport these kids in a more expedient fashion. how much trouble does that create for democrats in the midterm? >> it's fascinating because it seems as if the white house has kind of stepped back in that. the congressman just met with
the president last week to talk about this 2008 law, it's interesting because what is it that koumtd and needs to be done to deal with this issue and root problems. and changing a law which really is about child trafficking and exploitation and if you talk to these kids and we have -- >> they have been trafficked and exploited. >> they have been exploited, they have been trafficked and worse. are we saying let's change a law that is working because it's politically expedient for both sides to talk about changing the law? >> we know the congressional hispanic caucus met, and you're one of the folks meeting with the president last week, how frayed are the relations between democrats and congress and the white house? >> well, let me put it to you this way, i think the meeting was a good meeting, it was a warm meeting, and i'm proud to be a member of the hispanic congressional caucus, because yes, one of our members is for
changing the law, but every other member of the hispanic congressional congress, we don't want the law to change. we want to fight for the $7 billbill onnon. >> one little girl returned to the hands of a human trafficker is one little girl too many. >> that sounds like a pretty definitive stance. please be sure to catch jose diaz-balart on msnbc. coming up, the most revealing information yet about the nsa, and when we say revealing, we mean nude.
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i. the most intimate communications are caught in the nsa dragnet and are then shared among nsa employees. >> they stumble across something that's completely unrelated to their work in any sort of necessary sense, for example, in intimate nude photo of someone in a sexually compromising situation, but they're extremely attractive. so what do they do? they turn around and share and they show their co-worker. sooner or later this person's whole life has been seen by all these other people. it's never reported. it's routine enough, depending on the company you keep, it could be more or les frequent. but these are seen as sort of the fringe benefits of a security analysis positions. >> i feel like these revelations are among the most salacious and
also distressing, i wonder when we think about the long trajectory of information snowden leaks and scandals. why did he not lead with this? in stoking the air of the american public, this seems to be an incredibly effective method. >> snowden leaked a tremendous amount of information to journalists and then relied on journalists going through the information to see what was news worry think, you have seen in our reporting and others reporting, and a given in some of the documents, to how much if you're relying on a giant digital dragnet of what's on the internet, that stuff necessarily will involve sexually explicit material. we had one document that we publish in the february that talked about it and almost kind of lamenting and daughtering british proper way, that annists
given the information they were going through couldn't avoid seeing people's nude photos. >> in terms of the nsa, there has long been the question of their power and the scope of their operations, but there's a thing to really bring up the question of competence, and an inability to manage the vast network of folks who are trolling through this data. >> it would seem that this is not just a question of competence, but a question of internal oversight, so much of what the administration has put out there in defense of the way the nsa responsibly handles the vast amount of information they have access to is to talk about their robust and meaningful internal checks, even before the fisa court or congress gets to see this information or gets to learn what the nsa wants to do with it.
it begs the question when you have tsang analysts go through information -- a lot of us in our less professional moments or our les mature moments probably would given the amount of access we would have over this amount of stuff. >> we have talked about reforms arrange the executive act. john naper has. >> and "the washington post" on friday, he said, there is no good reason that u.s. citizens should receive weaker privacy and oversight protections stimply because their communications are collected outside, not inside our border. this executive order allows both collection of content of communications overseas while conducting a foreign investigation. do you think that there is any chance that we will revisit this executive order?
>> yeah, in fact, on wednesday, the government's privacy watch dog known as the privacy and civil liberties oversight board has given a hearing in deciding where it goes next in a lot of it's intelligence oversight agenda so there's some possibility there. >> we will monitor it as it develops. u.s. national security editor for the guardian, spencer actman, always good to see you. thank you for your time. >> after the break, knew details on the investigation of the crash of malaysia airlines flight 17 coming up next.
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we are continuing to follow the latest developments in malaysia air flight 17. despite a deal in place between malaysia and prorussian separatists, the two black boxes have not yet been turned over to malaysian officials. and 218 of the victims, bodies that were transported from the crash site today are on their way to meet representatives from the netherlands. investigators -- malaysia's representative to the united nations explained officials from his country were still not getting full access to the crash site. meanwhile, heavy fighting persists in eastern ukraine. today in donesk, the ukrainian
military began an assault on the rebels, using air strikes, rockets and tanks to assault the city. so far today there are reports of at least five civilian casualties. that is all for now, i will see you tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern, the ed show is coming up up next. good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. i'm ready to go. let's get to work. >> all of them that remain in a state of shock but frankly in a state of outrage. >> the policies are failing
across the globe and it will come here soon. >> impose sanctions on gas companies, sanctions on energy and military companies. >> he's trying to be thoughtful, it comes off as weak. >> you've got to leave that putin individually. >> the united states needs to end its toughest response to this whole operation. >> ron reagan rallied the world community against russia and what it was dealing with. >> my preference continues to be finding a diplomatic resolution within ukraine. that is my preference today and it will continue to be my preference. >> good to have you with us tonight folks, thanks for watching, here's what's unfolding. to the relations between the united states and russia arguably are the most tense that have been around since, what,