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tv   The Cycle  MSNBC  July 30, 2014 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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meantime, stocks mostly lower this afternoon. some investors think continued economic improvements could lead to a rate hike from the fed. and a "cycle" exclusive this hour. two senators want to reform the war on drugs. rand paul and cory booker will be here in washington, d.c. with me today. their first tv interview together since introducing a bill helping nonviolent offenders get jobs. we begin with breaking news. fighting has resumed in gaza after a brief israeli cease-fire came and went. it was only in effect where israeli troops were not already operating in the gaza strip, and hamas refused to adhere to it. this after the u.n. says israel attacked one of their schools that palestinians were using just to seek shelter during this conflict. 15 were killed in the attack. 90 were hurt, mostly children who were sleeping. the u.n. calling the attack a, quote, a front to all and a universal shame. >> we notified the israeli army of the exact position of this
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school and the fact that there were 3,300 people there precisely 17 times. we've got over 200,000 people in 83 shelters across the gaza strip. they're overflowing with people. there are terrible problems of sanitation. we've got to get food, blankets, water, all sorts of sanitary items to these schools. we will not abandon the people of gaza. we have reached breaking point. >> israeli says militants fired first and israeli troops were firing back. there was also a separate attack on a busy market in gaza. 15 killed there. that brings the palestinian death toll to 1,356.yman mohyel gaza. >> reporter: ari, olympipalesti
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officials and eyewitnesses are describing what happened today as a massacre. they say the first shell landed while people were in that market. it was shortly after others came to put out the initial fire that more shells began to land as people were running away. and that is what led to the killing of at least 15 people. the other incident that you talked about, that school, the u.n. school. we visited it today. people there thought they were going to be safe under a u.n. flag. but they turned out to be wrong. now, according to palestinian eyewitnesses that we spoke to in addition to u.n. officials that were there at the school throughout the night and into the morning, there was no fighting taking place from there. >> that was ayman mohyeldin reporting from gaza. we lost the satellite but thank him for his reporting. we go now to ambassador ginsburg. good day to you. let's build on what ayman was talking about there. obviously tremendous concern
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about that apparent safety zone turned into a real injury and death zone. the u.n. condemning it in strong terms. i want to read something to you from israeli author david grossman, a liberal in israel whose son was killed in the 2006 war. he talks about how hard liners on both sides have perpetuated a kind of a mental freeze that's left populations living in their own bubble on either side of this border when, in fact, he argues there are majorities that want peace. an influential author there, but is he optimistic at this point? >> i know david very well. there are so many people in israel and palestine that respect him so much. yet at the same time, there is a lot of truth to what he said, ari. the populations on both sides have basically dehumanized each other in the absence of having any real cross-border exchanges and the humanitarian concerns
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seem to be lost. palestinians look at the rockets and wave them on and basically compliment hamas for continuing this fight. the bottom line is the humanitarian crisis in gaza is a catastrophe for the people who are there. the only way that this is going to be humanized is for those people to be given humanitarian relief, ari. egypt needs to open up its border and let some of those people out to escape what's going on in gaza right now. the most important thing that we can do as a country is to work with both the arab league, the saudis, as well as the egyptians to try and make that happen. this conflict is not going to come to an end on anyone else's terms but when hamas and israel decide that either has to give up based on ed on the conflict . >> secretary john kerry has been working hard to try to find some sort of peace. a lot of heavy criticism aimed at secretary kerry in his handling of this crisis and his
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inability to bring both sides together for a cease-fire. this morning, though, on "morning joe," israel's ambassador to the u.s. came out and defended kerry. here's what he had to say. >> 87% of the israeli people are against the cease-fire. so my sense is one of the reasons why the secretary had a problem not from the prime minister but from the public was that he was trying to advance a sustainable cease-fire and we appreciate his efforts to do so. the prime minister appreciates both what president obama and secretary kerry have said and done. >> what is your assessment of secretary kerry's handling of this? did he miss the boat here? did he go over to israel too soon? >> listen, i have a great deal of respect. i've known john on a first-name basis for 35 years. clearly the united states is doing everything that is necessary here to try to reach an agreement. however, with that said, the secretary sort of, in my judgment, this time, he jumped into the pool without determining how much water there
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was. when you're dealing with a conflict with so much passion on its sides, you should not be speaking too much to the cameras. you should not be speaking too much in front of other mediators. the goal here ultimately is to gets a consensus among the people who could wind up helping you achieve the goals. i think what happened here is that john kerry made a fundamental mistake. you're not going to get the israelis to agree with a position that is contrary to your security interests when the israelis are in a garrisoned bunker mentality and think the united states is selling them down the river. that's the worst mistake he committed, and it's a mistake he should have avoided. >> and how much influence does the u.s. actually have here? we just had up the poll. only 7% of israeli citizens actually even want a cease-fire. we did see some slightly critical words from the u.s. regarding that israeli attack on the u.n. school. it was their sharpest criticism to date in this conflict. but did those sort of
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criticisms, do they make a difference? does the u.s. really have influence they can exert when the israeli people are so united behind continuing the conflict, at least for now? >> well that, poll, of course, relates to jewish israelis, not the significant number of arab israelis. >> good point. thank you. >> most importantly, when israel enters that bunker mentality and they feel that they're under threat, it's very hard for the united states to exercise that type of leverage, particularly when the president and secretary say the same thing. we understand israel's security needs. it's important for the united states to be seen as an honest broker, providing military support to israel, and at the same time, appearing to be critical of israel publicly. it's almost as if it's a three-ring circus that the united states just can't possibly be a ring master in. and that's been the real problem here. >> absolutely. but the base of this is that the
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palestinians want self-determination. the israelis will not allow that. thus, the palestinians see the israelis as an occupying force. one media scholar puts it this way. the refrain that israel has a right to self-defense is a red herring. the real question is, does israel have the right to use force to maintain an illegal occupation? he says no. what do you say to that? >> israel has every right to defend itself against missiles being fired by terrorist organizations against its population, period. he's wrong. number two, the palestinians deserve a state of their own. they need to have a state of their own. i'm a fundamental, passionate believer in the right of palestinians to have a state that they should be able to take pride in, living side by side in security with israel. they currently and before, for the last several years, israel has been led by a prime minister who has not seen fit to want to negotiate in good faith with president abbas, to negotiate in what essentially was secretary
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kerry's honest, good effort to try to bring a solution that all of us were supporting. there was clearly ulterior motives on both sides. the fact of the matter is knot withstanding this crisis, the prime minister of israel has not negotiated in good faith with his palestinian counterparts. he has demonized president abbas instead of embracing him as the partner that he needs to be embraced as. if he had embraced him, this conflict would not have started. it would have at least marginalized hamas some more. this is a lesson to the israeli government as well. >> ambassador, thank you so much. up next, the clock is ticking to august recess right behind me. that means a lot of action on capitol hill. later, as we mentioned, we have a "cycle" exclusive. republican senator rand paul and democratic senator cory booker join us here onset in washington. their first live tv interview together as "the cycle" rolls on, onbr a packed wednesday, ju 30th.
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back now in the place for politics. and there is a lot going on today up on the hill. no, really. just two days remain before congress leaves for its month-long recess, and there's still lots to get done. today the house should finally vote on the va reform bill, while the senate moved one step closer today to a final vote on the border bill that is actually expected in both chambers tomorrow. and a bill to fund our highways is at a cross roads right now. it passed the senate last night but is sitting in traffic, so to speak, in the house behind all other things they haven't gotten done as well. but we can be sure of a vote tonight on a bill authorizing house leaders to sue president
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obama, which incidentally is connected to a bill on federal use of pesticides to exterminate rodents. you know, sometimes you just have to laugh. but this afternoon the president made it clear he was not amused. >> everybody right now says this is a political stunt, but it's worse than that because every vote they're taking like that means a vote they're not taking to actually help you. >> to walk us through congress' to-do list, let's bring in john stanton. let's start with the lawsuit. that seems to be the one thing house republicans care the most about. you know, this is why the american people are so fed up, so frustrated with washington, d.c. with so much to get done, this is what they're focused on. this is their top priority, to sue the president. let's say this goes through and they sue the president. where does that get us? what problems does that actually solve? >> well, given the fact it looks like they're going to have some
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problems with standing, so their lawsuit may not get very to begin with. republicans are very, very angry at the white house over its use of executive orders. it's become this things that's ginned up their base. it's like the old days in the '90s where they fought over judicial nominations and beat up bill clinton. this is the new version of that. the republicans of all stripes, they all sort of feel this way about the president. >> but why were they not then fighting this under george w. bush, who you could say was doing very similar things? >> he certainly was doing the is same stuff. >> so it's all political. >> yeah, truly political. >> john, greetings from washington. yeah, the boehner lawsuit is -- i don't know whether it's more pathetic than sad or more sad than pathetic. this congress deserves all the bashing it gets. yet, as abby and others have mentioned here, there is action. the border. you've got the veterans reform, which is important for a lot of people who follow veterans issues. you've got an iraq troops vote that didn't get a lot of
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attention but was interesting in the house and was bipartisan. a vote in the house on banking for legal marijuana sales. have we started to overplay the do-nothing narrative almost too much? >> no, i think what you're starting to see is members that have found ways to finally breakthrough some of this very quietly. it's essentially -- you have to get an issue and keep it away from the cameras as much as possible. work on it behind the scenes. when it blows up, keep trying to work past the problems. and, you know, it's the old-school members who are reasserting themselves. the veterans bill is a great example. they're slowly adapting to this new environment in washington. you're not going to see a lot of bills, but you will see every once in a while something like this veterans bill get through, which is remarkable. >> john, i appreciate ari's optimistic input, but on very serious things, nothing is happening. we've got dual border bills, house and senate miles apart in terms of how much they're
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willing to appropriate and what dems and rs actually want. republicans want to seal the border and send the kids back as fast as possible. dems are saying, well, can we give them due process, can we figure out a place to put them? and this is an issue where if something isn't done, thousands of people, many of them children, will be left languishing with really no idea of their future. this is something that we have to do something about. >> well, politically, not really. i think both sides are looking at this and not doing -- everybody passing something but not actually having anything done works best for everyone in politics. >> but not in a human sense. >> sure, no, absolutely not. but they're politicians. they'ri they're looking at november saying, i have to go home in august and face voters. >> i need a talking point. that's what they're saying. >> exactly. senate republicans will bring it up. it will get filibustered and die. want house will pass its version. they can all go home and say, i did as much as i could, the other guy got in the way. for them, that's the best narrative, i think, politically. >> and john, because this
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congress won't act on immigration, not to mention a range of other issues, the president has indicated he's looking at what he can do through executive power on immigration, in particular at the end of the summer. what is the political impact going to be of that? because i could sort of see the president does something big on immigration, that might motivate republicans. then again t might motivate the democratic base. how are red state senate democrats in particular who are vulnerable this year, how are they feeling about the president's decision to take that action? >> they're pretty nervous. sounds to me a lot of them are okay with him doing something on this. especially if it's speeding up the process for getting the kids through the asylum system. but they don't want to see him expand daca, for instance, to give more people the ability to stay in the country. they want him to slow down and waft to do that. >> and he is likely to expand daca. >> that's what it looks like. i think you'll see that at the very end of august. i think they're very nervous about that.
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folks like mary landrieu and others are looking at that and saying, you know, this is really getting republicans amped up. they don't want them to be amped up. they want them to stay home on election day. >> well, shifting gears quickly to the midterms, politico has a piece out today. i've been wondering, where has michelle obama been? seems like she was out so much in the first four years. kind of dialed that back. they have a piece out saying the dems could really use her in the midterms, especially with turnout. they write, she can bring the obama brand without the baggage of president barack obama himself. she can go to states where he can't. she's a fresh draw for donors it and for voters. think we'll start to see more of her? >> i think so. there's been talk already about having her do the events and doing individual stops along the campaign trail. once we get past september, you'll probably see her out almost every day working crowds and trying to be out there. she is still very, very popular. she doesn't -- she's able to navigate around some of the
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touchier subjects and keep the sort of good, positive face. >> she's incredibly savvy. always great to have you here in the flesh. thank you so much. up next, news, but no good news in the downing of flight mh-17, and re-examining the nixon tapes 40 years later. nixon presidential insider john dean joins us here next. vo: this is the summer. the summer of this. the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. where memories will be forged into the sand.
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a flood of trouble in sunny, southern california. but not mother nature's doing. could take days to clean up some 8 million gallons of water that rushed on to the famed sunset boulevard into the ucla campus after a water main break late tuesday. crews still have not fixed the busted pipe. a number of buildings were damaged and hundreds of cars believed to be complete losses. a bipartisan group of senators including marco rubio unveiled legislation this morning that's aimed at stemming the tide of sex assaults on college campuses.
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survivors and advocates were side by side at a press conference announcing that bill which would guarantee confidential counseling without forcing the cops to get involved. and international observers were turned away again today from the crash site of malaysian air flight 17. the plane was shot down two weeks ago tomorrow in eastern ukraine in an active war zone. pro-russian separatists are believed to be responsible for the shootdown, likely using weapons supplied by russia. >> our goal today was to do an assessment, a general assessment of the security situation, which is part of our mandate and part of what we've been doing here. >> and meantime, russian stocks rallied today in the wake of those new sanctions by the united states and the european union. while they're the toughest yet, there is relief there that the country's vital gas industry was spared. turning gears now, watergate remains the go-to analogy whenever there's a whiff of a political scandal because it
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remains the watergate of political scandals. four decades since nixon's resignation, we're still asking, what did the president know and when exactly did he know it? no one alive knows more than john dean, who was nixon's presidential council and then a star witness, providing information that was damning to the president and who in recent years has pored through hundreds of taped conversations and thousands of documents to build "the nixon defense," what he knew and when he knew it. it's an honor to have john dean here with us at the table in the guest spot. sir, was nixon involved in the decision to break into the watergate, and if not, when did he know about it and why did he decide to cover it up? >> he wasn't involved in the break-in itself. what's odd is had the watergate burglars not been arrested at the watergate, their next goal was to break into mcgovern's headquarters. that's traceable directly to the oval office, who had said, let's
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put a plant into the headquarters. he takes that to his aide, who says, change your operation from musky to mcgovern. had they not been arrested at the watergate, would have been traceable back to the oval office. >> so when did he know about it? >> he knew about that all along. i can find no evidence in the tapes or anywhere else that he knew about the watergate break-in. >> so you went through 600 tapes, thousands of documents, transcribed thousands of pages. you were an insider. you knew president nixon. was there anything that shocked you? >> every page of my book, i found something that was new and many things that were shocking. i didn't get called in until about eight months after the arrest. so i don't know what happens behind closed doors for those first eight months. i'm in there at one meeting, but in group meetings, but not really am i privy to what's
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going on. so this was a revelation to me. i had help from graduate students who helped me transcribe. we transcribed about 1,000 tapes. we found about 600 that nobody else, best we can tell, has ever listened to outside of the archives. i was able to fill in a lot of gaps and put together the picture of what happened where your grandfather used to work, who i knew, and to see exactly how it unfolded. >> well, and you eventually approached president nixon about the seriousness of the scandal. we have part of that conversation. can we play that?
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>> so in the book, you say you didn't know nixon that well. but after that conversation, you certainly understood him better. did he know in that conversation, do you think, what was going on? >> oh, today i can tell you absolutely he did. i traced the conversations he was privy to and when he was privy to it, and he knew so much more than he led on to me. i went to work for an image. i think i really met the man in that march 21st conversation. when i'm trying to convince him, warn him that we're in trouble if we don't do something, if this doesn't stop, i'm telling him, i'm speaking rather bluntly and saying, we're obstructing justice. this is a criminal act. i didn't convince him. i hear listening to this tape these great sighs from my voice. he thought i was -- >> must have been hard to do. >> he thought i was
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overreacting. i'm just frustrated. i can't tell you how frustrating it was. i thought he'd bring his fist down and say, we've got to stop this. i couldn't get that out of him. >> nixon refused to give you immunity from prosecution, which led to you spending four months in prison. are you still upset with him about that decision? >> well, he didn't have that decision. he tried to block me from getting immunity. i actually was immunized by the congress and informally by the prosecutors. my lawyer to this day says, you know, john, they could have prosecuted you. you had oliver north's case long before oliver north knew he'd need a case. that wasn't my goal. i pled, stood up, took responsibility for what i'd done and decided that was the way to deal with this issue. so i'm not frustrated with his action. i'm responsible for my own action. i was frustrated when i broke rank. i told everyone what i was going to do. i thought they would do as i had done and come forward and be
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honest about it. i didn't start a parade to the prosecutor's office when i went, though. >> john dean, it's very exciting and an honor to have you here with us. thank you. >> and thank you for watching us out west. >> you're part of my audience when i'm writing the book. i think, who would i like to reach? this is the age group i'd like to understand this issue. >> well, thank you so much. >> really appreciate that. up next, the fading of the american dream through the eyes can of teenagers. we're going to preview a compelling, heartbreaking new documentary hitting theaters near you. plus, ari still getting ready for his exclusive with senators paul and booker. that's live in minutes. "the cycle" is rolling on. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age?
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poverty has skyrocketed, up 64%. but numbers, of course, only tell one part of that story. take rich hill, missouri, for example. former coal mining capital that was mined out after world war ii. stores were boarded up. population has been steadily dwindling while unemployment continues to rise. it's a tale that's all too familiar across towns in america. the foe us it now of the award-winning documentary "rich hill." the film follows three teens that glorify the haves over the have nots. but incredibly through it all, they still believe that one day their time, too, will come. >> people walk past us with their nose 50 miles in the air, acting like they're better than us. and i don't fall for that. we're not trash. we're good people. i know i wouldn't be able to live without my parents.
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i really do love my mom and my dad and my sister. i hate moving, but i know if we do, we do. i have no say in what happens. they're the parents. i'm just a kid. this is what goes through my mind. god has to be busy with everyone else. eventually he will come into my life. i hope it happens. it's going to break my heart if it don't. >> that was then-14-year-old andrew jewel. he's now 16 and joins us at the table along with "rich hill's" director. thank you so much, both of you, for being here. andrew, i feel like i'm meeting a super star. i watched this documentary a while back. your story is really compellingly told. you are so eloquent as we just heard. it must be weird, though, to see yourself on film like this. >> well, i find it -- i mean, it was a little weird at first. i kind of got used to it. i just hope that all the
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teenagers across america can learn from my family's struggles and actually see what some families struggle with. >> what do you hope that people will take from your story that you share here? >> i just hope that kids can grow with their faith and jump the obstacles and accept the blessings and work hard for what they want. >> tracy, what made you take on this project? what drew you to andrew and the other boys that you highlight? what were you hoping to share with the country through this film? >> well, rich hill is my family hometown. it's where my father grew up and where i spent every summer and winter break as a kid. but over the years, i've seen it fall on hard times. families are clearly struggling. so i made this with my first cousin, another andrew. he and i wanted to give voice to the families who were struggling. that was our original notion. then we got to town and we met
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andrew, harley, and apache and had a connection and knew they should be the boys. >> you do it beautifully well. >> yeah, it's very elegant. there's a lot of pain in it. you get such intimate detail with these folks. let me show a little bit of apache in a really powerful moment. let's run that. >> my dad left when i was 6. just walked out. didn't even say bye. woke up in the middle of the night and he was gone. >> the way he talks and the way he acts, he's been through so much already. and i wonder, how did you get these folks to let you, to give you so much trust, to let you film their kids and make this movie about their children. >> i mean, you know, in large part, the doors were open to us.
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trust surprisingly, perhaps, was ours to lose. i hope we didn't do anything to violate that, but you know, i think i bonded in particular with the moms because i am a mother. i could identify with being stressed out and, you know, wanting to provide for your kids. my struggles are nowhere near what their struggles are, but i think there was a bond that we had on that score. and andrew, maybe -- i'm not sure entirely why you trusted us as you did, but i think ultimately it was we just had a connection. i felt that the families that we met wanted to tell their story. >> the one thing that all of these stories have in common, despite the circumstances, despite the cards stacked against them, is they still believe in the american dream. they still believe hard work will pay off. andrew, do you still believe in
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the american dream? what does that look like to you? >> i firmly believe, like i said before, if you can jump the obstacles that the devil throws your way and just look forward to a brighter future and look forward to your blessings that god will put forth to you, and work hard for what you want and work hard for them blessings. you can idolize the american dream. >> well, andrew, you are an inspiration to me, to a lot of kids out there who watched your story and found a lot of strength in the strength that you brought and the way you love your family and maintain your faith. so thank you so much for being here and for being willing to have the courage to share your story. and thanks, of course, to you, tracy, as well for telling that story. don't go far, guys. you are also sticking around for the latest episode of krystal continued. you can find that on our website later this evening and "rich hill" opens in select theaters it throughout the month of august and will be available also on itunes and video on demand.
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we are back with a "cycle" exclusive. joining me now for their first ever live tv interview together,
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republican senator rand paul and democratic senator cory booker. you having fun here? >> we are. we hope you're going to entertain us and ask some tough questions. >> let's start with this redeem act. it reforms background checks to make it easier for ex-felons and low-level drug offenders to get jobs. why is that important? >> people deserve a second chance. a lot of people growing up make mistakes and deserve a second chance, particularly if you don't want them to go back into the cycle of drugs and crime. you want them to be employed. the best way is not to punish them forever with something they did when they were a kid. >> senator booker, what about employers who say they would like to know whether someone has a record? >> is it relevant is the question. if it's a nonviolent crime, how long should a person be punished for this. if you're 30 years into your career -- and i've had people come to me with these cases. a nonviolence drug offense. they're still having to check a
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box that they have a felony conviction for marijuana possession. so there comes a time of proportionality. for nonviolent offenses, there should be a pathway for expungement that has to go back before a judge, as we allow, that has to have prosecutorial input. but this is within the societal interest. we want people to be economically making contributions. and what we have in a system right now is we put up so many barriers. we deny people who come out of prison for nonviolent offenses so many things from pell grants to safety net provisions, even business licenses. so what rand and i wanted to do was say, hey, you know what, we have such high levels of recidivism. we pay an egregious amount of money -- >> you mentioned those benefits. this bill actually would roll back the bipartisan '96 welfare law that president clinton signed that was take away food stamps from some people. what do you say to people who say that law struck the right
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balance? >> again, it's proportionality. a lot of americans understand that for nonviolent drug offenses from presidents to ceos, a behavior they may have themselves engaged in, it's not proportional for the rest of that person's life to deny them basic benefits. take for example a guy that's 40 years old, screwed up when he was 16. he loses his hours at the factory, needs to get food stamps or s.n.a.p. benefits. we say absolutely not because 30 years ago you had a nonviolent drug offense. this is all about empowering. our taxpayers pay way too much money for three out of four of our people resit vating because they don't see an economic opportunity. >> you've both pointed out there are racial disparities there. that's part of what you want to do. reforming the war on drugs. senator paul, in your view, is the enforcement of the war on drugs racist? >> well, i think it has a racial outcome is a better way to put it. i think it's inadvertent. i don't think everybody is plotting to make it that way, but you can't escape the facts.
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it has to do with several things. it's easier to arrest people who live in poverty. it's easier to arrest people who live close together. it's easier to arrest people where there are more patrols. we also give government grants to the police force based on arrest and conviction records. >> so you think it's accidently racist? >> well, yeah, i think it has a racial outcome. that's one reason. we should fix it whether it did or didn't have a racial outcome. because it has a racial outcome, i think there's stronger motivation that, you know, if i told you ten people were being put to death that were black for every one, you'd be concerned would there be a racial element to that. i think it should give us more drive to fix the problem, but the problem really of the war on drugs is taking a lot of people who make youthful mistakes, it's punishing them for our lifetime, and i think if we can get them back in to both voting as well as working, they're much less likely to get in trouble. >> yet, senator booker, how we define the problem affects the approach we take. do you think it's accidently
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racist or explicitly so? >> i think you're complicating this far more than it needs to be. rand said it very simply. this has a profound racially disparate impact, and we need to solve it using means by which we just take a dumb, broken system, frankly, and make it work for every american. it does not benefit americans -- when you start looking at how this hurts poor people, hurts minorities more, and creates savage realities. we have more african-americans -- and remember blacks and whites have no difference in drug usage rates, but significant differences in drug arrest rates. almost four times more likely to be arrested if you're african-american. and that's why now we have a system -- think about this right now. we have more african-americans in this country now under criminal supervision than all the slaves in 1850. so this system is broken. you don't need to be black or white. you don't need call it racially
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intent, racial impact. you just have to do something about it. >> part of what your bill does is also remove some of the stigma that might be associated with ex-convicts. why is that important? >> well, you know, i think the thing is that it shouldn't be a lifelong issue. you should get a second chance. it can't be you made a youthful mistake and it's going to carry with you forever. pl plus, if you make it carry like a deadweight for people, then what is the propensity to happen, to get back into crime if you can't get a real job. i think there's every reason to do this. as cory mentioned many times, this is a conservative notion in the sense that also we're spending an enormous amount of money on prisons. so i think the people who are harming other people should be kept away from society. the people who have made a mistake to harm themselves ought to get a second chance. >> and the explosion of -- i mean, our prison population has exploded tenfold since 1980 alone. an enormous amount of resources
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our country is pouring into this system that could be better invested in tax relief, empowering people economically and fixing our roads. the urgency affects us all. >> you also have a urgency affe >> you have a ban on sol tri confinement for children. do you agree with what they have said recently that solitary confinement can amount to torture. >> the practice of solitary confinement has incredibly negative effects on the development of young people. to put them in solitary confinement, the damage you're doing to them, the scars you're giving them can now affect their lives as they go forward. so we are now engaging in things in our country that everybody here in america -- forget the u.n. for a second, study after study shows, majority of sue sides amongst young people happens when they are in solitary confinement or
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afterwards. if we're interested in empowering people to succeed after prison, we would eliminate this. >> somebody smoked pot or sold pot, we put them in solitary confineme confinement? that's the punishment? i think our attitudes are changing. i don't think any drugs are a good idea but the punishment is very wrong. the other thing we're on the same page, medical marijuana, i had lunch yesterday with a guy who's 2-year-old child, he moved to colorado to get her treatment, has over 100 seizures every day, i want to meet the politician who won't let her have oil, taken the thc out of the oil and convinced she can function better. 100 seizures a day is so devastating. >> as we're talking about restoring civil rights here, you stirred up a lot of controversy with the 2010 comments -- >> me? controversy? >> you said at the time that you had concerns about the rules for private business while you support most of the civil rights act. why did you evolve on rules for private business? >> what i would say to be fair
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to myself because i like to be fair to myself, is that i've always been in favor of the civil rights act. people need to get over themselves writing stuff that i've changed my mind on the civil rights act. have i ever had a philosophical discussion yeah, and i learned my lesson, the liberals will come out of the woodwork and go crazy and say you're against the civil rights act and some terrible racist. i take great objection to that. in congress i think there is nobody else trying harder to get people back their voting rights, to get people back and make the criminal justice system fair. i take great offense to people who want to portray me as something that i'm not. >> when you said, well, here are the rules for private businesses are concerning, why not complain you have all done that? >> i never was opposed to the self-rights act and been attacked by half a dozen people on your network trying to say i'm opposed to the civil rights
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act and somehow i've changed. i'm not willing to engage with people who are misrepresenting my viewpoint because i have never been against the civil rights acts and never said i was against it. for people to say that, really they don't want to have an honest discussion about it. >> i think the honest discussion you said that some title, 2 and 7 that relate -- >> the honest discussion of it would be that i never was opposed to civil rights act and when your network does 24-hour news telling the truth, then maybe we can get somewhere with the discussion. >> let me go back to you, senator booker, on the politics of this, do you think this is easier for you to support than senator paul? >> honestly right now i don't care about the politics. this is an issue of justice. i'm finding alliesal across the board. this is a post partisan issue. if grover nor quist coming out for it and you have people like newt gingrich and christian evangelical leaders and we have
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a broken system. 24% of the prisoners are right here, taxpayers are carrying the burden and destroying lives and making communities less safe. you on this station covered urban violence. as i found out as mayor, when you shove them in systems and putting them in solitary confinement and emotional scars and bringing them back out and not empowering them they get back in prison and they themselves become victims. if we're interested in doing something about this, we're not going to let the politics stop us or presidential concerns. let's focus on this issue and driving home in this country we are suffering as a whole and too many people are having their liberty removed over nonviolent drug offenses. >> you're working together doing a bipartisan approach. have you learned anything from each other so far, senator paul? >> i think that when senator booker first came here, i thoutd
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he would be somebody open to discussion. i think he's proven to be that. we work in a very collegial way. we're actually looking for other opportunities. one of the things that i've been interested in is a way we can do something to combat poverty in our large cities and so we have a plan, something like jack kemp's enterprise zones to stimulate economic activity and hoping senator booker will take a look at it. >> focus on fixing problems and find lots of allies and it's great to find people on different issues across the aisle. it's been a pleasure to work with not just rand paul but in washington working together, this has been a great pleasure but we have to get it over the finish line. >> you posted a selfie together. >> that was all senator booker. had nothing to do with that. i was sandbagged on the selfie. >> the hill put out the most beautiful people list, you senator paul ranked higher than senator booker. does that sound right? >> my comment on the whole thing, if i got on any list, it
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must have been a really low bar. i don't know how this happened. >> senator booker? >> i think this is the one part of the interview i will say no comment. >> no comment. rand paul and senator booker, thank you both. you can find more reporting on the criminal justice issues we talked about in "presumed guilty", it's up there on the screen again. thanks for this discussion. we will be back in a moment. you know.... there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are good! the tasty side of fiber. from phillips ♪
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gets serious about suing the president. it's wednesday, july 30th and this is "now". >> that's when we act, when congress won't. ♪ >> the clock continues to tick in washington. >> boehner is running out of time. >> republicans are wasting time on a partisan lawsuit. >> the same people calling for this lawsuit shut down the government last fall. >> there are a lot of republicans that think this is a waste of time. >> the only other group of people that have screamed they want something and throw a tantrum when they get it are toddlers. >> this is playground stuff, embarrassing. >> the president plans to use executive authority to make some movement regarding immigration reform. >> if they are not going to do anything, we'll do what we can on our own. >> the white house calling out republicans laying down impeachment talk. >> i'm not pushing impeachment. if the president continues to violate the constitution, we'v

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