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tv   Melissa Harris- Perry  MSNBC  August 17, 2014 7:00am-9:01am PDT

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this morning, my question. what are they thinking in ferguson. melissa harris-perry and now
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10:00 a.m. on the east coast and 9:00 a.m. in ferguson, missouri. the new nightly curfew expired in the small midwestern city that in the past scene has been the scene of protest, violence, tension and pain. this morning, there appears to be calm. but last night was a different scene. the curfew. declared yesterday by jay nixon in a press conference set in at midnight. from the curfew hit about 100 to 150 demonstrators hit in the street continuing to protest the shooting death of michael brown, the unarmed african-american 18-year-old who was killed by a police officer more than a week ago. about an hour later, police in tactical riot gear moved in. police fired tear baincluding o person holding a handgun. seven people were arrested for failure to disperse. police say one person was shot in the area last night and this morning is in the hospital in
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critical condition. the circumstances of the shooting remain unclear. including any information about the shooter. captain ron johnson of the missouri highway patrol said this morning that the police response, tear gas and all, was appropriate. >> we have a shooting victim that is in critical condition that may lose her life. we had a subject standing in the middle of the road with a handg handgun. we had a police car shot at tonight and, yes, i think that was a proper response tonight. maintain officer safety and public safety. >> all of this followed a mid-afternoon press conference held saturday in ferguson led by missouri governor jay nixon. the governor, though attempting to engage with the community, many of the gathered residents and activists with renewed frustration. >> if there was an easy way to separate those who hurt from those who helped, we would.
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but it's hard. and sometimes, especially at night, we can't. so, to protect the people and property of ferguson today, i signed an order declaring a state of emergency and implem t implementation of a curfew and the impacted area of ferguson. the best way for us to get peace is for everybody to help to make sure that everybody gets home safe tonight at 12:00. get a good solid five hours sleep before they get up tomorrow morning and that we're -- >> sleep is not an option. we want justice. >> we want justice. >> we want justice. i'll let you, just a second, i'll let you yell at me next. if we want -- >> all right! >> if we want justice, we cannot
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be distracted. we must be focused on making sure that people are allowed their first amendment rights and we do so in a peaceful fashion. we cannot have looting and crimes at night. we can't have people fearful. >> we can't have police officers killing people. >> multiple times missouri highway patrol captain ron johnson, the man now in charge of maintaining order in ferguson stepped to the microphone in an attempt to bring some sense of understanding. >> i'm going to tell you what we're doing now is not who we are. it's not who we are. yelling at each other is not going to solve that. we're all talking about the same concerns and the same passion. the frustration is in your home is in my home. it's in my home. and i've given you all the answers i know and i'll continue to give you that.
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>> johnson himself had to acknowledge a key issue. he is now in charge of maintaining law and order and not the investigation into the killing of michael brown. he did not have the answers that the crowd wanted. and if anyone at yesterday's press conference did, that person was not sharing. more than a week after a police officer shot michael brown to death in the street, there is still so much we don't know. we still don't know any details about the allege struggle that brown had with that officer. we still do not know how many times brown s brown was shot. we still don't know if brown was shot from behind. we don't know if brown was on his knees and stretched out in surrender when any of those shots were fired. we still don't know why the police officer opened fire and we still do not know for how many hours michael brown's body lay in the street. joining me now in ferguson, missouri, is msnbc.com germane lee and reverend clinton staton
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in st. louis. nice to see you both this morning. >> thank you. >> good to see you. >> because we have so many things we don't have answers to. i want to ask a few clarifying questions first. the first is, what time of day, just in general was it that michael brown was shot to death? >> it was in the early afternoon. between 1:00, 1:30. somewhere around there. >> a second clarifying question. do we have reason to believe that all police officers in ferguson are looking for opportunities to shoot unarmed teenagers? >> of course not. i think law enforcement in general are here to protect and serve. we know they take their job very seriously. there is always this feeling, especially in communities like this where residents say such a long issue between the police and the community. sometimes leads to brutality and always on the edge of something a little more dangerous. people actually do fear for their lives. >> i do want to clarify.
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he was shot during the day when it was daylight outside and he was shot by an answer and we don't have any reason to believe that all officers are interested in shooting on our team. some there to help and some there to hurt. is that correct? >> you have to assume. >> i want to listen for a minute, again, to one piece that governor nixon said and then i'll have one last question for you. >> if there was an easy way to separate those who hurt from those who helped, we would. but it's hard. and sometimes, especially at night, we can't. >> so, governor nixon said that it is hard to tell among the protesters at night who was there to help and who was there to hurt. given that an unarmed teen was killed by a police officer during the day and given that the response of the governor was to suspend the first amendment rights of protesters in the nighttime hours because of the difficulty of telling which ones
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of them are there to help and which ones to hurt. has there been any discussions of suspending the rights of police officers to carry weapons during the day because it's difficult to tell which of them are there to help and which are there to hurt. >> amazing framing of that question, but we have to keep in mind that there is a difference in tone from during the day when thousands of people are out protesting and families and young people and everyone is out and by the time you get to about 2:30 or 3:00 in the morning. the tone does change. both what we've seen is milt militarized police force with automatic rifles and snipers and all of that and also some people in the crowd who, because of this long history, are looking for a confrontation with police. have been begging for this moment just to respond and react to all their frustrations. so, there actually is a different tone. the heart at what you're getting at is important. that's what we're trying to figure out. this community has long been
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wounded and the salt is spread inside of it. your framing of that is a complicated one. there also needs to be a. >> i want to ask a few more questions to understand what's happening here. nbc news verified the photograph of darren wilson first reported by yahoo! news. ferguson has not responded to requests to comment on the photo, but we have verified that is officer wilson in the photograph. but i need to ask a few questions of this. we understand officer wilson is currently on paid leave. is that also your understanding, reverend. >> that is my understanding, as well. he is on administrative pay with leave. >> do you know whether or not the parents of michael brown are taxpayers in the city of ferguson. >> certainly they are taxpayers
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in the city of ferguson. therefore, they are paying the salary of this man who shot their son, who has not been tried and who has not been brought to justice and also paying the salary as being taxpayers of the county prosecutor who is afraid to do his job. he has convened a grand jury. we are calling him to do his job and step aside and get a special prosecutor to come in and do the job. he can file charges. and he needs to step up and do his job. >> reverend, does that seem fair to you? >> it doesn't seem fair at all. if you look, no other case that i've seen that, like this, that is going to a grand jury where a prosecutor has refused, if you listen to his interview, he has refused now to bring charges unless the grand jury indicts. he has to power to indict. he has to power to bring charges and we're calling on him even to step aside or do your job. >> this is my question to both
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of you, given the circumstances that you all helped to clarify and helped me to understand here that we have the parents of a victim paying the continuing salary of someone with whom there's no, it's undisputed this person shot and killed their son. no charges currently being brought was a curfew imposed on the people of ferguson an appropriate response to the current situation? >> when you talk to many in this community, they would say, no, that grown men and grown women should be able to protest at any time of day or night especially given the circumstances around not just michael brown's killing but this long history, again. but, i think other people would say, other people protesting would say, if you're a protester you can do that before midnight. by the time you get to midnight, most folks are going home and one with so much emotion and so much tension. >> reverend, i appreciate
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trymaine's point there. it felt to me yesterday in reporting it felt like a place of calm before the governor spoke and the imposition of the curfew itself may have been part of what encouraged the push back against the curfew. am i reading that wrong from here in new york? >> no, i don't think you're reading it wraucong at all. what the people need is information and not restrictions. more restrictions are not going to help the situation. we need information and demand information and we should have information on what's going on, the investigation should be transparent and the more restrictions they put on the people, the people are riding. the people have not been heard. their voices have not been heard. so, yeah, it seems like we're farther restricting our first amendment rights to speak. so, no, the curfew is not going to work. the people need an opportunity to express their anger, express their rage in a peaceful way and
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i say, again, in a peaceful way. but what we need is information, not restrictions. >> trymaine lee in ferguson, missouri, thank you. much more to come this morning, including the reverend al sharpton. >> this is the police department. you're violating a state-imposed curfew. you must continue disperse peacefully or you will be subject to arrest and/or other actions. we're the places you call home, when you're away from home. 12 brands. more hotels than anyone else in the world. like wyndham, we're awaiting your arrival. for a chance to win one million dollars, visit wyndhamrewards.com
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>> let them prosecute because
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you're not going to get a fair trial with this scenario. >> the u.s. representative whose district includes ferguson, missouri, explaining why he asked attorney general eric holder to take over the investigation into the shooting of michael brown. nice to see you this morning. >> thank you for having me on. >> you said you're not going to get a fair trial with this sunairio. why? >> there is a lot of distrust in this community with st. louis county police and st. louis county prosecution and the prosecutor and the entire judicial system here. over the year, a lot of disparity in sentencing and charging. i don't believe there's ever been a police officer convicted in this county of manslaughter
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or murder against a defendant. >> in that sentence then, is this distrust of the community well earned. >> for sure over the decades. the police and community relations have deteriorated in st. louis county and there needs to be a discussion in this community about how we better these relationships and how we make police force more diverse, especially when they are policing african-american communities. >> representative clay, you were standing there with governor nixon yesterday when he announced the curfew, do you believe that the imposition of the curfew is the sort of thing that will improve community relations with the police. >> i don't believe that. i do know that we have to
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balance, balance allowing peaceful demonstration and then also not allowed looting to occur after these demonstrations are over. and, so, that was the issue that governor nixon had to address yesterday. >> do you know about how many stores have been looted over the course of the past week? >> i'm not sure how many stores. i just road up and down the west florison coming to your tent and quite a few stores that were boarded up windows. and it's a sight that is not good for any community. and i've heard from the business people in ferguson who are worried about their investments here in this community and they
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want to be protected, also. >> i'm wondering just given we don't quite have the number. do you think it's fewer than ten or more than ten stores? >> i'm not going to speculate on how many it is, alex. i just can't tell you. i don't have a police report. >> i'm just wondering because it seems that apparently it takes the death of more than one unarmed teen to get an arrest. i wonder how many stores it takes to get looted before one loses their after dark amendment rights to assembly. >> i'm sure that the store owner who was impacted did not want to be looted at all. so, you have to balance that between peaceful demonstrations and a right to assemble and the right to be heard against the loss of property.
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that's what police forces do. they are supposed to serve and protect. >> thank you, congressman clay in ferguson, missouri. i appreciate you joining us this morning. we will have much more from ferguson this morning, stay with us. >> answer your questions. let's not scream at each other. >> you first. >> we're out to get answers. if i had answers to give you, young man, i would.
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>> i've seen people stand up and speak their voice. i've seen people show compassion to each other and strengthen each other and that's what we're going to talk about again. the positive impact our community has shown on this nation and we will survive this and make a change. >> that was missouri state highway patrol captain ron
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johnson speaking yesterday about the people of ferguson. joining me live from ferguson, missouri, msnbc host and reverend al sharpton. nice to have you this morning, reverend al. >> thank you, professor. >> what is the mood there in ferguson the night after the curfew? >> well, we are really dealing with the aftermath of someone we're told was shot. there has been some violence. the overwhelming majority of people peacefully protesting and there is a rally this afternoon that the attorneys and i are hosting and martin luther king iii will come out and we will lay out where we're going from here. let us be clear there has been a smear campaign against this young man, melissa.
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when we look at the fact that the police chief would release a tape alleging he shoplifted. let's quit talking about robbery. this is at best shoplifting minutes before his death and then forced to admit it had nuthing to do with the death and shows a real contempt for even a young man who isn't even buried yet. this is the kind of thing that is causing the outrage of a lot of the young people in this city. we are saying that we understand and share your anger, but don't go mad and don't get ahead of the family's pursuit of justice. so, we're dealing with all of that while we're calling on the justice department. this is a defining moment. can america deal with how it's policing its citizens. this is what is going to come down to here and eric garner's case in new york and the case in l.a. america has to come to terms with policing. that's the overall challenge
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here. >> reverend sharpton, this does feel like a defining moment and clearly calling here on the justice department, which is headed by attorney general eric holder and overseen by our own president, president obama. a democratic governor, governor nixon there in missouri who called yesterday for that curfew who spoke to andrea mitchell earlier today about exactly the issues that you're talking about in terms of the smearing of this young man. but let me ask you this, it is a defining moment for our nation and is it specifically a defining moment for the democratic party? >> i think it is a defining moment for both parties. one, i think that we've got to see whose side is on the side of protecting the civil and human rights of people. what is interesting to me is we've heard the president twice from vacation. we've heard the attorney general and want to hear more. we're the ones that want to be
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the democratic candidates. i have not heard from hillary clinton. i've heard from rand paul and where are jeb bush and others. those who seek to be president cannot have laryngitis at this time and expect us to forget that when it comes time to vote. so, it's a defining moment in our politics. it's a defining moment in our nation. the world is looking at how we police ourselves. while we lecture others around the world about their police state, we cannot come off like we have one. an unarmed 18-year-old boy is dead and the most we're told is maybe he was walking in the street. another man choked to death with an illegal choke hold in new york. the most we're told, is he may have sold loose cigarettes in the past. a woman pummeled on tape on the freeway in los angeles and we say the cop was angry and we're lecturing the world. how will america be defined and
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how will those democrat or republican that seek to lead this nation tell us how they will lead in this area. if they can't lead in this area, can we trust them to lead the nation. >> it's an interesting point that you draw there, especially when you mention the clintons are major supporters of governor nixon there in missouri and you do feel like if there is going to be ea clinton 2016 run that there may be questions to be asked about how governor nixon's record may reflect on her own understanding about what is appropriate police behavior in this state. reverend al sharpton in ferguson, missouri, as always, thank you for your work and thank you for being on the ground there and thank you for joining me this morning. >> thank you, professor. we have much more on the story from ferguson, missouri. stay with us. e? i'm thinking of scratching your car. well, you should stop thinking that. you're a little too precious with it. don't touch my dart, jake
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the trait of the good look leader is looking at the resources he put in place. i placed ron johnson in command of the highway operations here in ferguson, missouri. he is the most outstanding resource that i as a colonel can bring to this problem. >> that was the colonel in charge of the missouri state highway patrol speaking yesterday afternoon about captain ron johnson's handling of the protest in ferguson. i want to bring with me my panel. a member of the history department faculty university of connecticut. just back from reporting all week in ferguson for the "new yorker." mark steiner, founder of the center for emerging media. director of the black law enforcement alliance and retired nypd detective who served for 20 years. christina beltran at new york university. and author of "the trouble with unity." mark, yesterday we talked a bit
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about captain johnson. and yesterday captain johnson said very clearly during the, during the presser something that i want to play what captain johnson said and look at what happened last night for a moment and then ask you about it. let's take a listen. >> tonight, we want to enforce that curfew. we want to enforce it with tear gas and communicate and talk about, you know, it's time to go home. >> was he lying then? did he change his mind? is he not in control of the situation? >> let me start off by saying it may be supposedly 9:35 in ferguson, but in reality, it's 193, this is about the most embarrassing government police response that i've ever seen and it's time to start facing that
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reality and whether you have captain johnson that brings a certain skill set to this equation and you have to respect that. the reality of it is, he's not in charge. the same frustration that the people of ferguson, throughout missouri and this nation are facing is the same thing that johnson is experiencing first hand. he is the face. >> that's what i was reading on him in the presser. >> it was clear, it was clear that i can put something on this. it was clear that the decision to impose a curfew in 2014 anywhere in this nation was not captain johnson's. but, listen, captain johnson is responsible of deploying tactics there on the street. he is not assuming the responsibility for all these curfews, et cetera. but he is responsible as are the other governmental and police officials. it is an embarrassment and ubsurdity and direct violation of constitutional rights. congress or someone who said
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something otherwise is not mindful of the history. this is 1961 in ferguson. >> and i mean, i mean, i'm sure that my viewers have noticed the level of anger that i am trying to restrain today in this. but i see it very similarly in a kind of clear cut that every argument that seems to be offered for why this curfew was imposed. for why these police are behaving in this way simply does not seem to hold water over and against the realities of what we're seeing on the ground. i'm prepared to be talked down. >> we want to refer to those on the ground who say maybe they are on the ground. people die for these rights and these protections and we must insist that they be respected at all costs and that's what many people there understand. there will always be a criminal element. i've been on both sides of marches and there are times when
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things go wrong. that will always be the police's job will not be to shut it down. lock up criminals, protect those who lawfully protest. either they can do it or they can't. >> if they can't, is their responsibility for another level of government to step in and do so? >> that's been the question that's been going on since i got there. i got there on wednesday that was on the ground. people were talking about whether or not this was handled by national guard. whether or not the people who were in the local authorities were even capable, willing or capable of executing this. one thing i want to point out here is that the only thing the governor did was announce the curfew. there had already been a curfew in place with the exception of thursday, which was the first day that captain johnson was on the scene of police or purportedly in charge of police handling the situation. prior to that as soon as the sun went down, the police were going to begin cracking down on the protests. they were just kind of talking
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out of both sides of their mouth. there is no curfew. we don't believe in the curfew and institute a curfew and then at dusk some clash would emerge between the police and peaceful protesters. >> that idea that there was in practice, if not as a matter of law and yet it does still seem important to me, mark, that the matter of law occurs on that moment when the governor announces it because seven people were arrested last night and they were arrested for violating curfew, which is a policy and put into place. they are criminalized by the curfew itself. >> this whole power structure in missouri is so, it has no notion what goes on in the black world. none. they're completely dominated. what is happening in the whole area of missouri has an entire history that goes back 100 years and these people have been in the majority of the black community that is controlled by white politicians and white businesses and the white world and the governor himself has a
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miserable when it comes to the black community. miserab miserable. th if you notice in the community, you were there, i wasn't, you saw these pictures of young people standing in front of stores saying, no, this is not what we want to do. this is not how to do it. why not energize those young people instead of putting in a curfew. >> malik who is a community organizer there actually stood in that press conference and said exactly that. he was like, whoa, wait a minute. we've got this under control. i wonder, let me ask my production team. do we have the sound of him speaking? i'll see if we can get it later. he is actually standing in that press conference and he's saying, hey, how about you give me until 2:00 a.m. i can get all the guys off the street and, instead, nope, midnight and then we'll start bringing in the heavy. >> this is what happens when you have a police logic as opposed to a civic logic of our culture.
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where the public, this is public space and this is the space and it's really important to remember that mass protest is one of the only ways people can talk back to their government. >> especially if they're disenfranchised. >> this is critically important. when the logic is about, you know, it's a police logic that is about reverence and something really interesting about some of the post-9/11 culture, at least i think about this in new york got seen as being heroed. if there is a logic of, but there is heroism. but police logic is submission and passivity. citizenship is about grief and justice and joy and unruliness and anger and there needs to be a public space where that occurs and it's not always easy and pretty. people don't always behave perfectly. but guess what, that's what free people do when the logic is a police dream citizens acting together in the public rem.
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>> citizenship in a free country is messy. up next, the importance of allies. >> we're here protecting our community, the store, everything. to let everyone know that criminals and everyone i heard came to peacefully protest. that's what we're standing for right now. there's only one guy standing behind me that i know. the rest of these guys i don't know. we came over here and shot the looters as quick as possible. pos in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day
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her mother would be released from a detention center. they were eventually reunited in may. now, the national daily organization marissa franco is called for solidarity in unarmed team michael brown. her friday statement read in part, "as a movement that is fighting criminalization to stop deportations and detention, latinos and immigrants have a duty to stand alongside those who have been fighting it far longer. on the streets of ferguson people have bravely sounded an alarm on the crisis of violence besieging the black community. as we defend our own families we must answer the call not only to be in solidarity but the solutions we see are linked together." joining me now from phoenix, arizona, maria leader of not one more campaign. nice to have you this morning. >> thank you, good morning. >> so, why is solidarity so
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important in this moment? >> well, you know, in the immigrant rights community and the latino community we've been fighting a monster. we've been calling on president obama to stop deportations and that's a lot of work. but we don't think that's an excuse to stand idly as we see the attack happening on the black community. we know first hand the danger of when police are given duties. we've seen first hand that the way the border has and when police become deportation agents. we are gravely concerned when we see issues and situations like those in ferguson and the many that come before where police are taking matters into their own hands and becoming judge, jury and executioner all in one. so, we think it is the least we can do to issue statements and it's a first step in what is to come to be able to address this issue that is a crisis. >> i was truly heartened to see
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your statement and that of other organizations and that of lgbt organizations like hrc and others who clearly seem to recognize this question of belonging. talk to me then about what you see as solutions that cross the borders of lgbt questions and latino and questions around deportation and immigration reform and for african-americans in communities fighting over policing. what feel to you like solutions to address those questions broadly? >> well, we're really interested in how can we, you know, what we can bring is our experience and our sector. we saw deportations happening a year ago. this was an issue that was being talked about as economy and fruit and vegetables dying on the vine and right now the immigration debate is being talked about human suffering and deportations as the centerpiece. we are here to say that we've learned some particular things in our sector about what it means to try to fight and try to
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fight as if we're trying to win and trying to fight as if we want michael brown to be the last person. we want his family to be the last one to suffer from this tragedy. and so there's particular things, i think. one is that we need to really hear from the voices of people who are directly impacted. people who are survivors of police violence. i think hearing from women, black mothers who have been on the front lines of having to teach their children about how to survive and grassroots organizers like those in ferguson and around the country who have been battling this for far longer. we think it's time to push those who claim to be our allies to demand that they be champions. this is not just one issue of a rogue cop or a mismanaged police department. this is a crisis and this is an epidemic and we think it requires us having the back of the black community as they
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respond to this issue and we need to try different things. if we continue to do the same things, we'll get the same results. we need to innovate and try different things to address this because his life matters. his family should not be suffering in vain and we need to fight as if this is going to be the last time. >> marissa franco in phoenix, arizona, with such a simple, yet compelling idea. what if we decided that michael brown would be the last one. thank you. coming up, more on the community's response to a curfew in ferguson, missouri. [meow mix jingle slowly and quietly plucks] right on cue. [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. once there was a girl who never even in her laundry room... with downy unstopables, she matched her one-of-a-kind style
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missouri governor jay nixon's message yesterday was crystal clear when he ordered a state of emergency and ordered a curfew. >> if we're going to achieve justice, we must first have and maintain peace.
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>> that message from the governor did not go over well as evidence from the strong response from people gathered at yesterday's news conference. >> excuse me, governor, you need to charge that police with murder. that will bring peace. >> it doesn't take that long for your investigation. >> we want justice! >> why is the focus on security and not getting justice. >> he would be in jail. >> that's right. we need justice! >> i'm on the streets until we get justice for mike brown. >> joining me from pensacola is southern poverty law center. it was kind of stunning to hear the governor say instead of no justice, no peace which has been a long understanding of mass movements to say, instead, you can have justice if we don't
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have peace. do you think that was a misunderstanding of what the no peace, no justice is. >> i think it was a really unfortunate choice of words. there's been a lot of that in ferguson. you know, the police chief coming out and saying he has confidence in the officer who shot michael brown. such a weird thing to say. and we all know what the governor meant. we all understand that. but he said it in such an unfortunate way. no peace, no justice where everyone on the street saying just the opposite. just such an unfortunate choice of words. it is being tone deaf, it seems to me. >> i wanted to point out that there was a lot of conversation about race here, in part because of the optics and a young unarmed african-american was shot by a white police officer. there is another piece of it. that is that even before officer wilson was named as the shooter in this case, that the kkk who you all certainly monitor began
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raising money for the police officer who shot michael brown. >> that's right. there's a group called the new empire nighknights. they have about 32 chapters in 22 states and they announced a fund-raiser as a reward for the officer who shot michael immediately afterwards. right now, it's scheduled for sullivan, missouri, which is about 70 miles south of st. louis for august 23rd and 24th. what we have is, you know, a fault line in our country. a racial fault line. people of good will are trying to narrow it. groups like the clan are trying to widen it. that's what's going on. >> obviously, the officer and no member of the ferguson police force can be responsible for what this group is saying or doing, but hold on for one second, richard. i want to come to you, mark. obviously, the police do have a role here and my anger about what is occurring is, in part, that it seems like there is so much confusion.
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i just, as a former officer in this moment, is there any way to get these police forces under control such that we do not see tonight and the next night and for another week what we have been seeing over the past week? >> first of all, there's not confusion in that police department. in ferguson's police department or in st. louis' county police department. there is ineptness and inability and ignorance and then perhaps behind all of that, there is a flow, a will. a pathology that leads to these type of disjointed, nonlogical decisions that they're making. the police have, they have a responsibility to protect and serve the public. we have investigative units within that concept that have an obligation to conduct thorough fair investigations and that has not been done up until this point. therefore, they should lose that responsibility and it should go else where, whether it be
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through the federal government and whether it be an outside entity and the attorney general for the state needs examined. whatever needs to be done. at this point what they're doing is compromising the integrity of the investigation and that will have a direct impact on the legal results later on. they are jeopardizing the relation every day by the decisions, the comments and the "evidence that they're releasing." >> richard cohen i'm so sorry we ran out of time. thank you for joining us and also want to say thank you to mark klaxon. the rest of my panel is sticking around. richard cohen, i'm certain we will have you back. much more to come on the story out of ferguson, missouri, at the top of the hour. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert. that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing.
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harris-perry. demonstrators continued protests last night. despite the midnight curfew, despite assurances by missouri highway patrol captain ron johnson that tear gas would not be used on protesters, post-curfew demonstrations are met with militarized police officers who did deploy tear gas into the crowd. seven protesters were arrested, charged with failure to disperse. after 18-year-old michael brown was shot to death by a local police officer, one of the first things we'd learned about this relativity small city of 21,000 people, although more than two-thirds of the residents are african-american that police force are overwhelmingly white. only 6% of the police department's 63 officers are african-americ african-american. as zachary roth reported, though whites make up just 29% of the city's residents, five of ferguson's six city council members are white, as is mayor
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james knowles and six of the local school board's members are white. now, those demographic realities don't necessarily indicate conflicting interests between community and leadership. but at yesterday's press conference, the highest ranking official in missouri, governor jay nixon, did something that did suggest that those yielding political power over the people of ferguson may be out of touch with their constituents. >> to protect the people and property of ferguson today, i signed an order declaring a state of emergency and ordered the implementation of a curfew and the impacted area of ferguson. >> joining me now is state senator maria shapel and next to her forcmer mayor of ferguson, mr. fletcher. >> do you think last night's curfew accomplished the goals
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that governor nixon had for it when he established it? >> obviously not. there's still violence after the curfew, so, it did not accomplish what governor nixon wanted to accomplish, obviously. >> as a former mayor of ferguson, i want to ask you something and ask the state senator standing next to you which is what are we in the national media. those of us sitting in a studio in new york, what are we getting wrong about your town? what do we not know or understand about your city? >> i'm glad you asked that question, again, melissa. that isn't being asked by the media. here are a couple things we keep hearing is you, just yourself, talked about the fact that there are only three african-american police officers on our department. let me take an opportunity to explain why that is the case. within our community we have 67% african-american citizens.
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all right. we have tried, myself and the current mayor of the past and the current police chief to hire more african-americans. i would tell you this, if an african-american or woman, for that matter, because women are not fully equal on the police departments either. if any of them would go through the police academy and graduate, they are immediately snapped up by st. louis communities. as a matter of fact, when we do hire african-americans they are normally enticed by other communities away from the city of ferguson and other cities by the cities in the st. louis area that can pay more. i would argue that in the any african-american would go through the academy would have an immediate job for life. i am hearing from leaders outside the city of ferguson that we need to hire more african-americans. i would challenge them. please, give us a list of academy qualified african-americans or women for that matter. i would challenge them. they are unavailable. go ahead, i'm sorry.
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>> i just want to give the state senator an opportunity to respond to the idea that there are an insufficient number of african-americans and women on the ferguson police force is because they are simply not a sufficient and qualified pool to be hired. >> here's what i would say to that, melissa. i look at other police departments and i represent several of them and they have been very aggressive in seeking african-americans as well as other races and women to be on their police department. in their police department. in university city, for example, we have made a concerted effort in our community to make sure that our police department is reflective of our community. if you look at the city of st. louis, they have done a superb job in making sure that the police department looks like that community. and, so, i think many times people make excuses. send me a resume. i think that's an excuse. i think that what we should be doing is making sure, one, we
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have people in the community that know that it's a wonderful opportunity to work on the ferguson police department. but, also, i know that i've gotten phone calls and inquiries from police officers and other departments that actually want to come to ferguson because they do pay more. and those folks who i've talked to, melissa, are african-american. >> mr. fletcher -- >> i've known you for decades. >> i want to ask you about the elected leadership because although the police forces is -- >> i'm sorry, melissa, i didn't hear you. >> i want to ask you about the elected leadership. because the police force is hired, but the leadership is elected. i'm wondering, over the course of the past week, do you think the elected leadership from the local all the way up to the governor has served the people of ferguson well? >> yes, i do. let me take that issue, as well. we have had two african-american council men in recent times. the reason they are there, we
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had resignations among white councilmen and went to active african-americans in the community and asked them if they would accept an appointment to the city council. they only requested that they run for the next election on their own. both of these gentlemen appointed by the city council were elected in their own right against white candidates when they ran. it is difficult in getting african-americans to run for elected office in our communities. now, the school board does not pay any salary. the city of ferguson, the councilperson gets $250 a month. all right, it is difficult. now, i've been very active over 30 years in elected office here and i've personally held voter registration drives and i helped individuals like maria in the past get elected. i have been very active. we have sought as much as i possibly can.
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i would ask for maria if she ever had the name of an a, i ha never been contacted by an official to be elected. >> would you agree there is the reason why there are so few african-americans in elected leadership? >> absolutely not. here's what i would say to you. i've been at ground zero oboth a and b since day one, actually. the only elected official that i have seen at ground zero is a council men who is african-american. and it's a privilege to have him on the ground, but even at the state level, many of the representatives that i have in my senate district who are african-american have not been on, at ground zero at all. that's one of the disappointments that i have. as far as it comes to being paid for an elective office, it's not
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about being paid. i, too, serve on the local school board in university city. i don't get paid because i believe it's a volunteer effort on my part in my spare time. there are a lot of african-americans who want to serve in elected offices. we had a great example of that this last april when there were at least four or five african-americans who were running for school board in the ferguson florson school district. out of those, only one of them made it. there was a huge issue this year because the only african-american superintendent for a school district that has all white, caucasian school board members. he was actually fired. one of the leading african-americans superintendents was fired by an all-white school board this year which has created vast controversy in this community. and i would like to go further in that saying that, melissa, there is a disconnect. a lot of people like to have the
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perception that everything is going fine and hunky dory, but that is not the case. there is an underlying issue in this community which has existed for years. if we are not open about it and transparent about it and brian is my friend and he is someone who i do like talking to, but there an undercurrent that is going on. i think most eelected people until they get to ground zero, they are not going to know what is really on the minds of the people in ferguson and the greater majority of this region. >> melissa, i do want to correct one thing maria said. no, please, i must respond to this. >> former mayor ferguson, i simply, former mayor ferguson -- former mayor ferguson, i am sorry, it is just about being, about being out of time. i'm sorry, former ferguson mayor, brian fletcher in ferguson, missouri, also state senator, maria chappelle-nadal in ferguson.
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i have to cut you off because of time here. i would say clearly the two of you have reporas individuals but the question here is about the issues of structure. i do hope, all of us deeply hope that the underlying issues can be addressed because the people of ferguson are clearly hurting and asking for justice from all sides of this point. everyone stay right there because two people can say the same thing and get very different results is next. >> working in a coordinated fashion. >> excuse me, governor, you need to charge that police with murder. ♪
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>> this is not the silence the people of ferguson or this
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region, but to contain those who are drowning out the voice of the people with their actions. the best way for us to get peace is for everybody to help to make sure that everybody gets home safe tonight at 12:00 and gets a good, solid, five hours sleep before they get up tomorrow morning. >> that was missouri governor jay nixon saturday afternoon justifying his implementation of a mandatory curfew. exercising their first amendment rights and what constituted a peaceful evening was marketedly different than the one delivered by highway patrol captain ron johnson on thursday. >> you can stay out here all night. the only thing that i ask is that we pull back a little bit so traffic, our family members and our friends can travel up and down and they can come by and yell out the window and give you spore, but we have to move back on the sidewalks. but you can stay as long as you want.
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>> thursday stay out all night. friday go home and get some sleep. with me, at the table jalani cobb and a member of the history department faculty who is back from reporting. mark steiner, khalil director of schaumburg center for black culture and christina beltran, new york university eand author of "the trouble with unity." is this performance art at this point about what it looks like to be out of touch with one's constituents? >> they are so out of touch. police brutality and rasome peoe call it universal in this country. some people are so out of touch, they don't know how to fake it. you see sometimes people, you think they know what they're talking about. they can't even do that. i mean, the governor can't do
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it. he's just unbelievable. >> they never had to. >> they never had to. >> so, being there, the impression you get is that these people remind you of those southern towns in the 1960s who had no idea how their actions looked on television. remember, television was a thing that made segregation kind of untenable because the rest of the world could see it and say this looks barbaric. i don't think that the people here have any sense of how this looks in the broader spectrum. talking to people in the community about that, they never had to. if they had control of the power system here, the structure here, who are they accountable to? they never really had to go through accountability before. >> there is something really interesting going on here around politics of representation. and there is a couple things going on. obviously, a big issue here is that there are no people of color in authority in this area no people to speak to them as equals in these different institutions and say, do you
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know, this is and clearly all of our institutions should be reflective of the communities they serve and all should have equal access. that should be a given. more about having those bodies in those spaces. one interesting thing right now and still a militarized border and still a border not taking the rights and concerns of those populations and questions. >> the unarmed african-americans are sometimes committed by -- >> we need to be clear about having that presence there and also about changing culture and about the politics of militarization and the politics of equipment. >> yeah. >> really talk through this rather than, i think, the logic now which is sometime physical we have more diversity there then we'd be fine. we have a cultural question. there's ideology and there's a lot going on. >> i just want to add to this that i think we can't also completely isolate ferguson as
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the back waters of america in the way we could pockets of alabama. >> at least next to st. louis. yeah. >> not only that, but there is a trend here that represents the decontecturalization across the country. there is a turning off of these issues. there is a distancing from it like not my problem and unless it shows up in my commune, i don't have to worry about it. black folks are 13% of this population. most of white america the idea that you could be ten minutes away in a drive or bicycle ride from ferguson is like this is not my issue. so, i think we have to keep that in mind because the larger context for this, the reason why this keeps happening is because no one is connecting the dots where power resides in this country. the folks who are the powerless, the folks on the ground marginalized are the ones that keep showing up at rallies and keep connecting the dots. we keep reliving this like it's ground hog's day because the rest of america is tuned out. >> it's so interesting. so, both this question of sort of whose problem is this?
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right. the problem the politics of representation and you were talking about talking about television and i keep thinking as multiple politics of representation going on here, one is about elected representation and just now kind of trying to get into that issue and clearly isn't sort of a black elected or white elected and it has to do with whether or not you have a sense of who your constituents are and what their lives are and this politics of representation because the young people who are on the front lines of this set of protests are not dressed in their sunday best, you know, 1962, you know, going to meet, these are young people coming out as they are to protest this police violence. and i wonder how much that is impacting the ability to see these young people as young people to whom something wrong is being done. >> because these young people are always seen by the media and by the majority of the other and to be feared and not to be taken serious because of the way they dressed and the way they might
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speak and move their bodies and all those things. you see it all across the country. what you did yesterday, melissa, on this show was really critical because you named all the people murdered by the police and that connected dots around the country and i think about the city ei come from in baltimore and where it was young people. young black college students and other who stopped, they took to the streets and did it and also people being killed at the hands of police in baltimore. it's what you were talking about. this pervasive culture of violence inside the police departments and the power and control that had to be dealt with and the militarization of our police forces is only exacerbating. >> i have to say, i appreciate that so many in these communities are pushing back against the kind of politics and respectability that would say whether michael brown committed the shoplifting would somehow, that a death sentence would be reasonable. i want to listen for a moment for his family and his attorney and that of michael brown's
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family about that effort to smear that young man just for a moment. >> mike brown jr. had his hands in the air before the police shot and killed him in broad daylight. what happened in the 18 years before that does not matter. >> so whatever that took place there had nothing to do with the individual getting down on his hands and knees raising his hands in the air and saying don't shoot. >> i believe if he was a suspect in any kind of way, he should have been taken into custody and questioned, arrested, whatever the case may have been and i don't think he should have lost his life. >> before we go to break, i want to report this breaking news in the federal civil rights investigation into the shooting of michael brown. the department of justice has released a statement this morning saying, "due to the extraordinary circumstances involved at this case and at the request of the brown family, attorney general holder to arrange for an additional
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autopsy to be performed by a federal medical examiner. this independent examination will take place as soon as possible. even after it is complete justice officials still plan to take the autopsy into account in the course of their investigation." up next, the history of sun down towns. thinking beneful. [announcer]beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. [guy] you love it so much. yes you do. but it's good for you, too. [announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. hing your favorite players come on, get open... yeah... with nfl mobile on verizon. yes! get in there! go, go, go, go, yes! let's go, drew. the "not-so-good more" would be them always watching you. go for it, paul! get open! come on, paul! let's go! hustle! what is that, chamomile tea?! uh, lattes. you wanna take a nap?! get the "good more" with nfl mobile, free with the more everything plan. exclusively from verizon. now get 50% off
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and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom. it was really easy to do. (baby noise...laughter) we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. go to legalzoom.com today and complete your will in minutes. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. by the time missouri governor jay nixon went on television yesterday to announce the midnight curfew for the residents of ferguson, we'd already gone off the air on mhp but dorene warren stuck around and joined my friend on his n. >> what you just said, raul, when the sun goes down. here is the historical context for this. if you were black in an all-white town you cannot be in that town when the sun goes down and it was a threat to your
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safety. >> historian and author, the man who literally wrote the book on "sun down towns" uncovered thousands of these towns throughout the 20th century. by some estimates, as many as 10,000 sun down towns sprung up across the country by 1970. some were the african-americans to not let the sun go down on you that spread by reputation. others where the warning was explicitly spelled out and signs posted along the highway who were on the county line. but all of them, whites only spacess meant arrest or worse. carol jenkins was selling encyclopedias door-to-door when she was stabbed in the chest with a screw driver and left to die in the streets. so, for african-american travelers, making the choice about where to stop for food, gas or bathroom break or rest
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for the night was potentially a life or death decision. it is in part what prompted the publication of this. this handy guide let african-americans on the road know where they could find safe harbor and where they need to steer clear of the threat of white violence in sundown towns. the white book started to become obsolete outlawed legal discrimination. but that history of restricting travel and access to public spaces for african-americans seemed very present last night in ferguson where the streets, the people were warned to stay out after midnight in a town they normally call home. we're changing the way we do business, with startup ny. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax.
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history has already taught us what happens when governments answer to resistance against police violence is to respond with even more police tactics. we need to look no further than
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lessen learned by the infamous birmingham commissioner of public safety after he made this 1963 speech to protect civil rights protesters led by dr. martin luther king. >> blaming police assisted by law enforcement agencies and surrounding counties and backed up by the alabama highway patrol has a situation here under control and working around the clock to maintain law and order. if there is anybody in this nation who understands what is going on here, it is me. i know that we have sufficient man power. enough trained officers to keep the peace in birmingham without any outside help from the federal government. peace in birmingham, why doesn't he use his great influence and ask martin luther king to leave our city. >> congress decision to escalate the use of police force to suppress the cause of the demonstrators ended up having the exact opposite effect.
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when americans saw televised images of young people being blasted by high-pressure fire hoses and clubbed by officers the national outrage galvanized the movement. improved a pivotal turning point in the fights for civil rights. joining us now from washington, d.c., wade henderson, president and ceo of the loadership conference on human and civil rights. wade, is this moment in ferguson a turning point or just yet another moment when black communities are outraged, but it will go away. >> i think the jury is still out, melissa. but i think it could be a very powerful turning point both in ferguson and around the country. you pointed out the resemblance between the efforts of thomas jackson, the police chief in ferguson and those of the historic and infamous eugene conner and it takes journalists to talk about the ghost of bull conner haunting the story in ferguson, alabama. if we don't know the lessons of
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history, then we're bound to repeat them. i think we're seeing that in the case of thomas jackson, the police chief there. he's chosen, of course, to impose a strong arm set of responses to the ferguson challenge. and in doing so, has evoked the very worst images of the nation in its historic treatment of african-americans and no place is better emplifying that problem than birmingham, alabama, of 1963. after all, it was eugene bowls conner who was the public safety director who chose to use fire hoses on the little children of birmingham and chose to arrest dr. king and helped prompt the letter from the birmingham jail. through the racist response to the legitimate american values to justice under law and the need to lift up the first amendment right of assembly and free speech that help to bring
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about the way in which he used nonviolence to promote social change. i think what america has seen and i think, in fact, what the world has seen, i was in geneva just last week at the united nations conference reviewing american compliance with the convention on the elimination of racial discrimination and i can assure you that the story of michael brown was lifted up in a way that could only occur when someone like sabrina fulton, mother of trayvon martin and ron davis, father of jordan davis who was there looking at what happened in this country and helping to lift it up. so, all of these things have contributed to what i think is a pivotal moment for change. and i think the militarization of american law enforcement and a way that makes ferguson look like an occupied community rather than a small suburb of st. louis is also helping to promote change. so, while this tragedy is profound and significant and
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both the families for the city of ferguson and, indeed, for the nation. i think what we're seeing is a unique moment in time where change is likely to be inevitable. and i guess one last point, i really want to applaud the efforts of attorney general eric holder and the department of justice for their thoughtful response to the challenges posed by ferguson. just his decision today to conduct or to allow for a separate autopsy of michael brown's body by from examiners is the kind of tactic or kind of approach that will restore a sense of trust and a more harmonious relationship in that community. that's why captain ron johnson has done such an outstanding job. he is the general honorary, if you will of the ferguson challenge. >> wade henderson, as always, you bring such depth of historical understanding and experience and thank you, also, for bringing that international perspective for us.
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thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. we're not done. i'm going to come back and have more with my panel about ferguson right after the break. >> we have to do something. this is not going to end. it is not going to stop. all the news media, all the crowds and we start to deal with racism as it is. defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. easily absorbed calcium plus d. beauty is bone deep.
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holds for us? >> can i just take one stab at the past? >> yes. >> i don't want us to get lost on bull conner. the personification of the past that distances ourselves from what is with us today. and, so, making the connection to the systematic microaggressions. just the simple abuse of authority and disrespect that happens every single day. what happened to michael brown just like what happened to eric garner is just the most extreme form of this. when you hear people in ferguson talk about police harassment as a way of life in this community and in other communities all around it, that's what has to be the frontier because that's the story of black people in america. in the south, it was vigil antism and in the north it has always been police violence. if we don't make that connection
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and we don't say history is fairly flat in this instance and we have not moved the needle in over 100 years when it comes to black people making claims on liberty. so, finally, what happened in the birmingham crusade to come full circle was pressing and double downing on the fact that bull conner would be violent that day. so, they put kids out there to actually create the circumstance of juxtaposing the instance against brutality. >> yep. >> to invert the notion that law and order was only. purview and prison of the right establishment when, in fact, black people are calling for law and order in their communities. that's one of the greatest ironies of this moment. like we want quality policing. we want justice. we want order in our communities. >> this is, i mean, every time the governor says, well, we can't have people afraid and the people in the press conference and we are afraid that the police are going to shoot. i don't think you understand what it is we are afraid of.
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>> the disorder is exactly what happened to michael brown. the disorder is the best treatment of american citizens and citizens every single day. >> so, what you were saying about the future and i'm thinking about the future and the past tied together here i think, one, what ferguson has done with garner in new york and all the other people who have been murdered over the years. a consciousness is being raised and the american people are seeing this. i think this is the important bubbling up. the sacrifice of these human lives, as tragic as they are. they're building something, i think, that we haven't seen in a long time. there has never been a time in american history we were saying during the break that the only time civil rights was protected and the only time liberty has grown in america is when the federal government had to come in. to ensure that change. it's the only way it happens. we're seeing it now. >> it's why rand paul is wrong in that article.
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our friend pointed this out that for all the love he's getting from the left about the militarization of the police, which is an appropriate, i think reasonable sort of analysis. that what he's wrong about every time big government who know, right, it's actually the problem is the local government having this military apparatus. >> i think a lot of the people are saying, too, about the media. this could become a really important moment if we could talk about teaching people to see better and get deeper and thicker around these problems. like really talking about structural inequality and talking about the ongoingness of this. we're seeing it now. these really easy desires for a good guy/bad guy narrative. johnson was the good cop and so much more complicated. to get to the questions where we can really talk about. the structural day-to-day issues of black and brown bodies living in cities and the way they're treated especially if they're poor and low income. let's talk about that.
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what does it mean to see people, what does it mean to look at the democratic crowd. the democratic crowd is something that is exciting and it's full of anger and it's full of grief and it's full of joy and exuberant and festive. and rather than just saying, well, like you said, we need to wear black and white outfits and be earnest. this is what actual, we just need to make sure. i think shows like this try to have conversations that say, let's really explore what it feels like to be dissempowered and to claim public space and structures. >> but i get even more simple on the question of helping people to see. i am profoundly irritated by the extent to which people continue to use passive voice when they talk about a man who murdered a child. a man who was armed who had the power of the state behind him and was a police officer whose job it is to serve who shot and killed an unarmed child. and somehow, you know, back when michael brown got shot because now michael brown who got himself shot by existing and walking and, so, like the usual --
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>> the perfect. >> the use of passive voice when we talk about that killing. >> mistakes were made. >> mistakes were made and officers were involved. like in a very basic, looting is occurri occurring. >> one of the things i saw, we're talking about the future. this was a question i asked people when i was there. but one thing i saw that was very exciting and very interesting is that in that quick trip parking lot. that gas station has become effectively a town square. the people spray painted qt and there were churches there and street theater and -- >> the democratic crowd. >> the motorcycle group, the outcasts who were there. i talked with those gentlemen, very incisive. they pointed out, i mean, you talk about how the power structure ends up being all white and we have to talk about the number of us, talking about us. the number of us disfranchised because we were arrested and charged with felonies. some resulted from fights in
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high school. i had a fight in high school and charged with a felony. never been able to vote. >> maybe that's why there are so few aphfrican-american elected officials. >> they were there and white members of the ferguson community who were outraged about this. a cross section. a democratic cross section of people there and it was hard to believe that will not generate some sustained response, as well. >> so happy that you brought us the question of the democratic crowd and the possibility of free space because that is precisely where we'll go towards the end of the show today. i want to thank my guest this morning. jalani cobb and marc steiner. up next, the notion of free space in a very different place. when we ecome back. honey, look i got one to land. uh-huh (announcer) there's good more... honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. ooh, you got a buddy. i'm like a statue.
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last block talking about officer darren wilson of the ferguson police department shooting and killing the young man, unarmed, michael brown. i used the word murder. that's a legal designation. there's been no finding at this point, not even an arrest. i should not have used the word murder and i apologize for the use of that word. now, today we've been discussing the politics of and the message sent in ferguson, missouri. and the message for some, even in 2014, if you're african-american or if you're black, you have to stay in your lane or the police may put you back in it. but what if there were a place where black expression were peacefully supported by the community? many will converge on brooklyn new york park for a singular purpose. it's not a demonstration. it's afri-punk.
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this explores the sometimes uncomfortable scene between black funk artists. >> it's been mostly a white experience. >> i totally didn't feel like i fit in with the white punk kids. >> i felt like everyone was like, look at the black girl coming in. >> usually i'm the only [ bleep ] person there. >> from the film came a movement. and from that movement came what "the new york times" called the most multicultural festival in the united states. now celebrating its 10th anniversary, it will feature artists as diverse as singers
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such as iced tea and his heavy metal band. joining me is matthew morgan. so nice to you for being here. talk to me. we heard that people were talking about being the only one. what happens when you're suddenly not the only one, when you're part of the multiexperience? >> people get a real sense of being and finding one another. a lot of excitement. they get to wear their freak nerdness in all their floor ree a glory and it's a lot of fun. >> the show has been pretty heavy and we wanted to end it on culture because these are the spaces that become most free for individuals and potentially most healing for communities. >> i mean, it's been a
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progression of ten years and i think we're in a unique space because we're in brock brooklyn and the festival found its fame in brooklyn and the community hasn't just found the festival but the supporting people without those individuals and the police force or local government have really supported us and it wouldn't have happened. >> you talk about the police force. obviously if you're planning an enormous festival like this, you have to work with the police for police control. how has it been to you? >> i would say to people that i'm an advocate for my particular precinct because without them we would never have been able to have this festival. we're upwards of 60,000 people now and most of which people are of color. they are told from the top down to have people come and enjoy
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themselves and leave quietly and that's exactly what happens. when you hurt people and treat people in a particular way, you get a particular result. and without them, we would have -- we wouldn't be doing it at this point. >> if folks for the first time are considering coming out to afropunk, what should they expect? >> they should expect to see things they haven't seen before, groups of individuals that they only see in small amounts. one of the most exciting thing that has transpired is within our community, you see so many different types of community. so from the lgbt audience to hip-hop kids, from 7 to 70, like we really do have an incredible array of people that come to the festival. >> for you, is afropunk a free space? >> it is absolutely a free space. it's a sense of freedom. >> it's lovely that there are
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places where you can go and just feel free. matthew morgan, thank you for being here and best of luck taking place in brooklyn, new york, next weekend. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. right now, it's time for a preview of weeke"weekends with witt." >> reaction today from governor jay nixon and criticism to his response to the situation. plus, the father of trayvon martin talks about what the family of michael brown is going through and what expects from today's march. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back. watch: when hair loses protein, it splits and fails the needle test. but with pantene, the advanced pro-v formula helps prevent protein loss and stop split ends before they start. so your hair passes the test with ease. put pantene to the test.
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ferguson today. an uneasy calm sets in amid of a state of emergency. it's a stark contrast to the tension and turmoil during
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ferguson's first night of curfew. but how long will the beefed-up police presence last and what impact is it having on the psych key of the community? and what about the investigation? where is the search for the truth going? analysis on the michael brown shooting straight ahead. hello, everyone. it's high noon here in the west and 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." two days after the name of the officer who shot michael brown, we're getting the first look at that officer. nbc has confirmed that this is officer darren wilson receiving a condemnation from his police department earlier this year. the 28-year-old officer is a six-year veteran of the police department and grew up in the st. louis area. the photos were first published by yahoo! news on saturday. ferguson police have

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