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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  August 20, 2014 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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yes, this is hard, but yes, it is also necessary. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, live from ferguson, missouri, i'm chris hayes. yet another day in what is turning out to be the cruel summer of 2014. a whole lot of news that we are monitoring tonight. tonight, i am here in ferguson, and all it took last night in this same spot was a couple
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years. since i've been on the ground in ferguson, i've been hearing from african-american residents but they do not have faith in bob mcculloch. it's been members of the local, political leaders. on the air on this show several nights in a row, state senator nadal and a city councilperson for st. louis county and the
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head of st. louis county, the chief executive all of them expressing their lack of confidence in bob mcculloch. i pressed him whether a state of emergency in missouri, he has special powers to elect a prosecutor. he was reluctant to answer and agreed that more or less he can, in fact, appoint a special prosecutor. that doesn't exist in normal statutory law in missouri but under the emergency powers that he now has because he's declared a it sta of emergency, co-do that. now, we've gotten sm interesting news tonight. we've gotten word from a spokesperson that bob mcculloch does not expect to step away from his duties but if the governor were to approve a special prosecutor, he would step aside. just earlier on our air, senator claire mccaskill saying that she
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could see a scenario in which a special prosecutor was appointed and bob mcculloch step aside. it's one of the key moving parts in all of this. if you talk to people here, there are basically two things they want to see. one of them is they want to see charges for darren wilson. they feel the facts on the ground justify charges brought against the officer that shot and killed him blocks from where i'm standing. the governor says that him stepping into the case may taint the legal process. we have an interesting standoff and i'm not sure if people quite understand what is going on here. the county prosecutor bob mcculloch is saying if the governor makes the first move, he'll step aside but doesn't expect it to happen. the governor saying that bob mcculloch has the ability to step aside but he won't step
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into the situation. and a community and political leaders here who are asking for bob mcculloch to be removed. all of this in an intense equilibrium. as everyone says to you as you have conversation, how does this end and where does this go? joining me -- is that live footage? we appear to be looking at live footage of a melee in a parking lot of protesters. joining me on the phone is an assistant professor to advocacy at the school in new york city and he's been an invaluable guide. i had a state rep say to me, it's not going to happen. you're barking up the wrong tree. explain to me the dynamics at play here, jeff. >> well, it feels a little bit like a political hot potato, doesn't it, chris? >> yeah.
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>> i don't really think that, you know, jay, the governor, is going to step in and do it proactively. he's always received strong support from the community. he was attorney general for 16 years. and the chain of command is very important to him and i don't expect him to do anything that would sort of interrupt that chain of command by intervening here. at the same time, i think that the county prosecutor might and i think it's sort of apparent in what we saw tonight, he would love to be out at this box and not have all of this heat on him because he's probably damned if he does and damned if he doesn't and then that determines if he ultimately wins or loses the case. i think neither one of them will probably act -- the governor probably won't remove him and i don't see him removing himself because he'd take a lot of heat from the law enforcement who have supported him so long.
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again, his father was a policeman killed in the line of duty. his cousin, his brother, his nephew, it's a family with a lot of policemen and i think the police are counting on him not to recuse himself. >> yeah. and he is viewed as -- all prosecutors spend their lives working with the police, putting police on stand to make their cases. now 90% of criminal cases are made by police witnesses. and so there's a tight bond there. >> he just got re-elected 11 days ago. if he recuses himself here, then he risks spending his next four years having a tough time ever making a case because how -- he might -- there might be retribution. in other words, cops may say,
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hey, he didn't stand by us and maybe we're not going to stand with him so steadfastly as we have in the past. so there's definitely, i think, problems going forward for him if he was to recuse himself. >> let me explain to folks what is going on. there was a melee that broke out. one of the dynamics at play here when dark descends, it has nothing to do with shots fired at the police. it was shooting between two people that were out on the street when a lot of people are out, people happen to have beef with each other and run into each other. we've seen that at the edges. jeff smith, i want to stay with you throughout the story. the big take away for me is mcculloch opening the door saying if the governor steps in,
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i'll step aside. that might the best thing for him politically. because then he doesn't look like he's stepping down. he can yell and scream that the governor took him off of it. is that right? >>s that the case for the county prosecutor. but it's the old pottery barn rule. he owns the outcome, whatever it might be. >> right. >> and i'm not sure that he wants that. >> all right. former missouri state senator on the phone, jeff smith, thanks for joining me. >> thank you. stay safe. >> joining me now is trymaine lee. you've been steadfast on the ground here. a different approach tonight. we saw it breakdown about 20 minutes early last night. the posture seems to be working.
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there's a big police presence but not an aggressive one. >> i agree. but one thing, we noticed it last night, when everyone first locked on and first started to gather and you had different communities actively staying out here all night long. tonight it seemed more organized. it seemed that the elders in the community who finally kind of ingritiated themselves, last night it was almost a riot. so tonight it seems a bit difference. >> we have seen organic outrage, organic anger, and it's not necessarily -- it's not like -- i've said this before. when eric garner was strangled to death by a new york city
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police, put in a chokehold to his death, protesters were led by a number of organizations. people came out and they marched. that's not the case here. people come out and they are just walking down the street to get something at mcdonald's and while they are walking down the street they are saying, hands up, don't shoot. when people talk about the protesters, it's not just protesters. it's just people out here. >> again, they can get and mobilize this community right now, it's a turning point. they are emerging. we talk about special prosecutor and the political will and pressure, how will they come out? will they demand change and come out in an active way to support that change? that's what we are seeing. they are still bold. they are still out here. they are still moving. and it seems to be more organized. >> the vast majority of
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protesters have been here night after night. keep in mind, when the police talked about mayhem, which is a small -- a very small -- i think we all agree, when the tear gas comes out, it doesn't just get those people. so the folks out here that are protesting peacefully, they are coming out here night after night after night. what does that tell you about their grievance? they know how unpleasant tear gas is. they know they might get rubber bullets. they are here night after night after night. >> you hear about molotov cocktails and plastic bottles. last night there was more restraint. there was one bottle. they didn't immediately fire.
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then they shot tear gas. >> right. but the other thing, i sort of want viewers to feel what we're feeling on the ground here. the tension here is very real. it's not a fabrication of news. it's not because the cameras are here. us here with lights on observing the situation, there's no question, unquestionably. but the question driving the tension here and the tension on both sides, i've heard comments from police. >> right. >> i had a friend -- a source and friend tell me a police officer told him to get a job. the police are not happy about being out here. i'm not going to generalize about that but they've got all sorts of different politics and views. but they are in intense posture, too. it's mutual and can get into context of when you report things. and usually when it's calm, you feel it.
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>> the way the platform that we're delivering from, this is a real life and death here. we're talking about people shooting at each other. we're talking about unarmed people being fired at by the cops. if any of that is true, this is a very tense situation whether we see it or not because we're only dealing with a few individuals. it can turn in a minute and who knows where they are. i saw earlier guys creeping behind a building here and then a car. and even though it's calm and cool, they are taking a precaution and everyone is still on edge. >> and last night it was just here that was where the gunshots went off during our live hour. the gunshots were somewhere between the rock and the tear gas. that right now that corner is clear. but for right now, it's calm and peaceful and people are out and they are peaceably assembling. tomorrow strikes me as a big day in this for a few reasons.
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i think claire mccaskill's comments about the special prosecutor is bubbling up. people are having to respond to it now. you've got eric holder coming to town and the meeting of the grand jury and the possibility that it will be the first day in which evidence is presented at that grand jury. all of those things are happening tomorrow. >> as this case moves along step by step, the grant jury is a big deal. you have to go through this avenue. even everyone is yelling at captain johnson and the governor, that's not the way it works. will there be charges? is it enough? and we're moving along. >> trymaine lee, thank you very much. all right.
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we are live from ferguson, missouri. peaceful team out here so far. people walking around and chanting. hey, man. exercising their first amendment rights to peacefully assemble. for now, things are calm. there is tension in the air. we'll be live for the hour, so stay with us. .... [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees.
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>> this law-abiding protesters. and ask the force s of peace come out and protest before the sun went down so they would not
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serve as shields for the lawbreakers this the night. tonight, we saw a different dynamic. protest crowds were a bit smaller and they were out earlier. we had to respond to fewer incidents than the night before. there were no molotov cocktails tonight. there were with no shootings, but a vehicle did approach the command center and threats were made to kale police officer. we identified the vehicle, located it and made arrests and seized two loaded guns. in another incident, a third loaded handgun was also seized. however, at about midnight bottles were thrown at police officers near public storage business. it forced police to deploy their helmet shields for protection and break in to the crowd and search for the agitators who hid behind the media for safety.
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all night and early this morning, no smoke bombs, no tear gas was used by police. we did deploy limited pepper spray. tonight, once again, no police officer fire ed a single bullet. and the clerk came out in large numbers. they walked and talked with people. they urged common peace. that had a common influence on the younger people. as of 1:00 a.m., there were 47 arrests tonight. early this morning, compared to 31 at the same time yesterday. i will add that one of the arrestees was an out of state violator we have arrested for the third time. i think over the past ten days the women and men of law enforcement and the people of ferguson have gotten to know better and understand one another. it makes me proud every night as
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i see more and more police officers and residents interacting and smiling. earlier tonight, governor nixon said we've seen many attacks of kindness as the people of ferguson try to maintain peace. let me give you some examples of what i have witnessed. at 8:30 tonight, i met ms. moore cooking out with her family. she invited us and the troopers for hot dogs and ice cold water. one good hot dog it was tonight. despite the turmoil, she cooked out there for the past six nights in a row. inviting people to join her free of charge. that is a true spirit of ferguson. i saw that same spirit in ferguson ten hours earlier. this morning, hundreds of volunteers were out sweeping the streets and picking up the glass
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and other debris, rebuilding this city. 300 of those volunteers were from the school district. they didn't have school today because of the conflict but those teachers and school staffers were still teaching all of us a lesson about making communities better and stronger. this morning, we also invited some small businesses that have been vandalized and looted. smashed out windows were boarded up, but they were still open for business and determined to stay in business and to keep ferguson going. that is the true spirit of ferguson. that's why the men and women of law enforcement tonight are here to protect the people and the property, to make sure this community has a future worthy of the true spirit of ferguson. i will answer a few questions. >> will you go in to more detail about the threats against officers and the arrests you made from that. >> we identified a vehicle that
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made threats to the police officer. we obviously stopped that vehicle and located two of the handguns tonight. >> what time was that? >> that was around, it appears to be around 8:30. >> that happened outside of -- >> it was in the area. >> would you describe what happened around midnight that triggered the disturbance that caused you to -- >> as i said, the agitators, criminals, embedded themselves and hid behind media and began to throw bottles. they threw urine on officers and that's what caused officers to take action to make arrests. >> do you know how many bottles were thrown? >> i don't have the exact number. >> glass bottles, yes and also plastic bottles with water and ice. >> do you feel like you made a turning point tonight?
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[ inaudible ] >> i believe there was a turning point. i think that turning point was made by the clergy, the activists, the volunteers, the men and women of law enforcement have partnered together to make a difference, but also those citizens took heed to what we talked about last night, not allowing criminals to amass themselves in a peaceful protest. they protested early and went home early and allowed us to better look for those criminals and agitators that are roaming the street for their own agenda. >> how many arrests were made tonight? [ inaudible ] >> the clergy wanted to have a prayer tonight. those criminals and those agitators did not even have the respect of prayer.
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their actions started during prayer. >> how long can you hold these people in jail, these agitators that you are referring to. how long will you be able to hold them? eight hours. >> that's according to the jail and it will be up to the jail how long they stay. >> throughout the evening it was very peaceful, as you say, very subdued and as people grew tired of marching in circles for hours they started to get in vehicles in parking lots. prior to that, the officers did not have on their helmets, did not have their guns out. when the decision was made to clear the parking lots of people from the businesses, a line of police officers at that point decided to don their helmets. and you could feel the tension. a defensive pose.
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why was that decision made to put on helmets? >> sir, if you see these guns on the table, if you have a helmet in your hand, you walk in a crowd with your helmet up, you walk in a crowd without the ability to defend yourself? people are throwing urine. >> prior to that, this is when the night was still peaceful. there were large crowds starting to congregate in the parking lot. >> officers have to be safe. safety is number one. safety is number one. if you saw me tonight, some of you saw me tonight. when i got home last night at 3:30 in the morning, my wife was up. lights were on. and when i walk through the door, i knew i was in trouble. she didn't say hi. she said why didn't you have
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your vest on. when i left today, i got here, the first text i had on my phone is your promise. and promise means that i'm going to come home. these men and women are going to come home. [ inaudible ] >> i'm always reassessing. we're reassessing our operational plan to do whatever we can to make the night better, to make the night safer and we're making steps. they are not big giant steps, they are small steps. those small steps will turn in to giant steps. the giant steps will be great strides for this community. >> i understand right that you said one of the individuals you arrested was from out of town and he's been arrested the second time? >> the third time. >> the third time. where is he from, do you know?
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>> austin, texas. >> is that a traffic stop -- [ inaudible ] >> it was a traffic stop. >> we knew about the threat before we stopped the vehicle. we stopped the vehicle. >> you said 47 arrests total tonight? >> yes. >> two of these weapons were recovered from that automobile? >> two of those weapons, yes, were. >> can you give us details -- [ inaudible ] >> there was a variety. i really couldn't give you a variety of reasons why they were arrested, mainly for failure
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to -- [ inaudible ] was that a tactical decision made by you all to do something different that seemed less confrontational. >> we are always assessing our operational plan here, our operational approach, coming up with the best way to reserve the rights of everyone here to peaceful protest so they have the right to protest and so we continue to do that. from your statement, i it this worked tonight. thank you. >> captain ron johnson there, ferguson, missouri. just as he did yesterday, 2:28 a.m. local time, spending about ten minutes with the press answering questions, giving the rundown from what happened during the day. the differences we are seeing on this wednesday morning, compared to yesterday, what he said was certainly less severe. he was saying 47 arrests again so far at 1:00 a.m. it was 31 at
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the same time. when he was looking at yesterday. so that number went went up but no use of tear gas, as he was saying and limited use of pepper spray. yesterday, as we had seen tear gas was used. no bullets again fired by law enforcement on site and he's sum marizing the day by saying things look better but there are outside agitators he's concentrating on and explained why at 12:00 a.m., midnight local time is when things changed. it was quiet compared to yesterday that's when things turned when one of the agitators, as he described threw a water bottle at law enforcement and that's when they had to respond. we will follow the latest out of ferguson, missouri. that's the latest coming from captain ron johnson. stay with us here on msnbc throughout the morning and throughout the day as we continue our wall-to-wall coverage of what is happening in ferguson, missouri. we will return to "all in with
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chris hayes." the programming no i in progress. >> what with you are saying is a sense of a double standard. this is something a lot of people said, after there was some looting. there were people that broke in to stores. we saw it that after that the police released the name of the people before the name of the officer in question had been released. a lot of people said what's up with that? that seems like a -- is it a double standard, the thing that is bringing you out here? >> in part. but the double standard is always an in existence and has been for a long time. i i am out personally because of the excessive force that the officer had been using. initially i came out with a group of friends, alicia, and chris walter. we came -- and jamie cox. they are all students. we came out as students to protest the injustice going on and the fact due process wasn't given. so everybody was out here. the idea of a double standard, it has always been the case in america where black people,
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whenever they try to move forward to get right, always has to come at least at a concession level or to benefit whites more. so it's constantly. >> do you feel as a young, black man -- how central is the police or thinking about the police in your life? >> i mean, in general, i believe that the police are out here to serve and protect. that's the whole code of honor. so when i hear police brutality is happening, then that become as problem to me because at that time, and as you can see here in ferguson, who is going to protect them then if they can't trust and rely on the police to protect them? i think that's central into this scenario right here. >> that's a key point. so much has been about this discussion about policing and it's been about people thinking that they are suspects in the eye of the law. you get pulled over and all of that. but there's also the case
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that -- and we covered this when we were in chicago, when people don't trust the police, crimes don't get solved. when people feel like areas need security, right, and people want to feel secure in their communities. but when the police -- when you feel like calling the police is going to open up a world of hurt or suspicion, you're going to be less likely to do that. >> yeah, i would say that, like you said, people don't trust the police. crime happens and it -- i'll go backwards. when crime happens and people don't trust accordingly, no matter what position you're in, a governor official, you're here to protect me. your check is coming from taxes that i pay. i deserve the same rights. there's no difference. whatever difference you see is really in your mind and you should come back to reality and realize i'm contributing, too. so i want what everybody else is getting. >> that sense of dignity/indignity, being treated in a petty fashion, right? is that something you've experienced, you've felt before?
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>> definitely. definitely. and i felt that i was very relieved when i heard ron johnson's comment about, that could easily have been my son out there. a, because of the lack of leadership, trying to give us direction. and, b, because we're trying to find new ways to get away from the old techniques that may not be working for us today who are end up being taught what to do, we're being told that our ways of acting and protesting and being direct actors in this direction action setting, we're tired of that. to be told that you're a failure, the fact that michael brown attended an unaccredited school, it was predominantly white spaces, they met with great -- they were met with great resistance, you know. when you're trying to do
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advocacy work, being told you're a failure when you're in a classroom, that creates a condition that my peers were talking about. >> thank you, national society of black engineers, st. louis university student, alicia, and jonathan, student protesters, thank you. i really appreciate it. all right. we are live from ferguson, missouri. it's a fairly peaceful and calm scene tonight as people are marching up and down the street. we'll be back with more live. stay with us. 
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evening here in ferguson, missouri, on what is now the ninth night of protests. protesters are marching up and down west florissant. a different approach from the police. police created a mutual no man's land. police are along the entire
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route. they are standing and watching the protests. we haven't seen the prove indication that we saw last night and night has fallen here and it's cooled things off in ferguson today and the heat doesn't help with people being frustrated about what is going on. tomorrow we'll see eric holder coming to town. there's a lot of expectation about the federal government. people are really looking to the federal government to vouch, to kind of get their back in the situation. they don't have a lot of trust for local government. they specifically had a lot of trust in eric holder and it was a big demand immediately that there be a federal civil rights investigation.
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there has been a civil rights investigation. eric holder has announced that there will be a third autopsy of the body of mike brown. holder will be here tomorrow and he'll come at a time when there's a growing he debate about the role of bob mcculloch, the man who may or may not begin grand jury proceedings for the officer darren wilson who shot mike brown. i want to join in now an activist who is part of the black struggle and phillip of dream defenders who our viewers know well. you're local here, right? >> i'm from st. louis city. >> when did you first hear about what happened with mike brown? >> i actually checked my timeline on twitter and they said the body was still laying out and it's about 2:00. so i pecked up some guys and the body was just being picked up. the body stayed out for about five hours.
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>> this is a really important point for folks. it wasn't just the shooting, as horrible as that is and upsetting. it was those five hours after the shooting. part of the reason that it blew up on twitter is, at these apartments right down here, there's this body laying here. when you got to the scene, what was it like? describe it for me? >> by the time i got there, people were still crying and they put the body in a black suv. so it was like strange to see not an ambulance, not a coroner, anything, just black suv thrown in, sped off. >> wait a second. they did not cover the body? >> they covered the body i would say a couple hours later. so it's people going out to the body with sheets themselves trying to do the respectful job that the police did not do. >> people were drinking sheets out themselves? >> yes. people were coming out, you
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know, the mother came out, uncle, just neighbors to try to cover up the body. people were just distraught. kids, babies. it was a sad scene. >> and it was a saturday at around noon. a lot of people were out. >> it was around noon. a lot of people not working. it was just people getting off, people just outside. a couple hundred people by the time i got there about 4:00, 4:30. >> do you think that's part of what has -- part of what has set this on the trajectory we've seen it, like that initial trauma that people experienced looking at this dead body, someone that they knew or someone from their neighborhood and feeling like it was just the ultimate disrespect in that moment? >> yeah. i mean, but i would almost say that people are kind of used to the disrespect. that happens on a daily basis. there was a guy shot earlier today by a police officer in the st. louis city. so we're kind of also desensitized to it and there's kids out there and they are getting a glimpse into their future.
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>> you think there is desensitization? people say, we've got to find out the facts, there's a right to defend yourself in a court of law, that people shouldn't be prejudging, they shouldn't be running up a mob to ran rod darren wilson. do you think that's what you're doing? >> absolutely not. i think there are facts that we all know. before he interacted with that police officer he was alive and well and after he interacted with the police officer his brains were out on the ground and that police officer was being rushed off and his body was laid out there for five hours. so there's some nonnegotiable fact. in the case of a brown body or black body in the middle of the street and not coming forward with the officer's name, being secret about the details of the investigation, it leads people
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to draw their own conclusions about, one, how much they care about the child and, two, almost morn importantly, how much they truly care about their officer. they are part of a fraternal order of police and it makes you wonder who they are protecting and serving. so rushing to judgment is something that people throw out when a black kid dies but whenever somebody else dies, swift justice, swift trial, open and shut case, that doesn't happen when you kill somebody that looks like us. >> all right. thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. >> thank you. all right. you heard the protesters out here. again, it continues to be a relatively calm night here in ferguson. we'll be live through the hour. stay with us.
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mcculloch. we are live from ferguson, missouri.
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this site has been where protests have been occurring for the past ten nights. first amendment, peace, everyone is crossing their fingers that's how it stays. stay with us. 9m woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ] man: a few inches of water caused all this? [ heart rate increases ] woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you -- including the fact that a preferred risk policy starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen.
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joining me now is pastor michael mcbride, the director of urban strategies and lifeline with the national network. you're also a pastor of a congregation in oakland, california, right? >> berkeley. >> why did you come to ferguson? >> because we are very concerned about the way in which the community has been traumatized by all of this violence, particularly the violence with mike brown and his family. and we had some clergy give us a call and they said they needed some support. so we quickly conversated with them and we've been here since. >> you have a congregation and you do peacemaker work? >> yes. it's reconciliation, bringing
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two groups who have conflict and helping them get past their conflicts to common ground, realize that all of us want to live free. the young people we work with, they want to live. they do not want to die. they just have not yet learned how to solve their conflicts without violence. so adults interject ourselves in their lives. young people who have actually come back from prisons and jails interject themselves into this peacemaking work and we get through the neighborhoods and do the work and the young people choose to live on their own. >> so this is -- there's a group in chicago called interrupters. this is a model of when there's violence and it's amazing with social media, you can see when something is about to break out. >> absolutely. >> you see so-and-so are going to meet up and you go there? >> absolutely. but understand, all the research says that less than half of one percent of any population of a given city is accountable for over 56% of the violence.
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that he is a small number of individuals. many people think that when you have a lot of shootings in cities, it's because you have a ton of people out there that are just actively shooting at each other. it is very focused and the good news is, there are more caring, loving adults if we have the courage and the time. and the priority to get out, wrap our arms and them. these young people choose to live on their own. >> it echos what people have been saying about the protesters. you have people saying, it's a small group causing trouble. that's not the way people talk about the kind of neighborhoods that are predominantly neighborhoods of people of color or poor. they are not policed. >> uh-huh. >> i think the key point here is, they are not policed as if they are a small group that accounts for most of the violence. they are policed often, and people feel, as if everyone is a suspect. >> right. our experience is, when we're talking about active gun violence, firearm offenses, it
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is a small number of individuals. now, when you're talking about crime related to poverty, robberies, other kinds of things, many of these young people and families are engaging that because they don't have opportunities. now, if we only arrested and incarcerated
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invest in schools and jobs. and then i believe the people that want to live, all the young people i've talked to say they want to live. this is the important part of our strategies and so glad to be able to be here and do the work together. >> pastor michael mcbride, pico national network. thank you very much. >> my pleasure. >> we're live from ferguson, missouri, on a cool night as people walk up and down the street of west florissant shouting, who are we here for? mike brown. who are we here for? mike brown. stay with us.
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all right. we are live here in ferguson, missouri. a quick correction something i said earlier. it's the 11th night of protests in ferguson. it gives you an idea of how enduring the grievances are here, how much people are looking for justice, for a change. and one of the things that has, we've been trying to do down here both during the day before the show, at night during the show is talk to folks about why they're out in the streets. as this attracts more media attention, seems sometimes the story can tilt out into tear gas or other things, even tear into often stories about the media, itself, which is kind of remarkable, as opposed to what folks here want. john gaskin is with me, spokesperson for the missouri naacp. jelani cobb, my friend, contributor with "the new yorker."
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john, you grew up in ferguson, right? >> that's correct. >> what were your interactions with the cops like growing up? >> my mother used to hate the ferguson police department. she said they were very harassive, very abrasive. she couldn't stand them. that was always my understanding of a young child, she could not stand the ferguson police department still to this day. >> did you have interactions growing up with them? >> very few. i do know at the end of the street there was a stop sign, once a week they'd say she ran the stop sign consistently and it was very annoying. >> this is the weird, weird hidden truth of ferguson which, if i'm not mistaken, i'm pulling this out of my head, half of the revenue for ferguson comes from traffic stops so there's a constant sense that you're getting pulled over all the time. >> i believe that. i believe that. that's a problem. you know, this was really my first night being here on the ground and coming through the barricades, it was scary. i thought i was going into a third-world country.
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i mean, the way i was spoken to by some of the officers on the ground, their tone completely changed when they found out i was with the naacp. aisle not going to use the language that was shared with me, but even the driver who drove the car over here was like, are you serious, are you really going to talk to this guy like this? you don't even know who he is. >> this was just now? >> this was just now on my way over here. you know, i'll say to this, i've been speaking to some of the people here on the ground, and i have a real concern about how officers are treating american citizens here on the ground. you know, if they can say that to people that are out here at night, i believe they'll say that to me, and i was in a black car. i believe that. and it makes me very much so concerned and the world should be concerned about this issue. >> sometimes it's the smallest things that engender the biggest amount of anger when they're repeated over time and time again, right? it's something about -- i keep hearing it from here. i mean, people will come up to
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me during the day and just start sharing their stories, right? grievances. this happened to me, this happened to me, this happened. everyone has a story about that. and sometimes they're big, a police officer pulled a gun on me, and sometimes they're small, he was disrespectful, dismissive, he called me a name, he told me to get a job, he slammed my car. but that adds up over time. >> yeah, absolutely. and, you know, i'm not from ferguson, but one of the things that i find here is the commonality of these stories. i've been in different places writing about this, and the commonality of the stories, the people are saying. you know, we have a fundamental lack of respect, and we are receiving a fundamental lack of respect as human beings. this story is particularly personal for me, because i'm a large man. i'm about the same size as mike brown was. and so i understand what it's like to be inadvertently intimidating, you carry that and you interact with police knowing that this could possibly be the third dynamic, a third person that's there. so, yeah, all these things add
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up and, you know, when we see what it's culminated in, people have been out here for 10 nights, 11 nights in a row and show no sign of being tired or giving up on this. >> yeah. the -- it's not going away. as someone who is local here, what do you -- what's next? like, what's going to happen here? >> the next thing is to realize here in st. louis county, ferguson is not the only police department that has a history of doing this. it's jennings, dellwood, riverview. all these little small police departments that think they can bully on people that are right here within this area. >> do you want to see some kind of initiative from the state, some sort of mission for reform in the area? >> i want to see investigations of every one of these municipal police departments to show and prove to people that african-americans are sought after disproportionately compared to whites. >> all right. john gaskin for the missouri naacp. jelani cobb, contributor with "the new yorker." that is "all in" for this even. we're tear gas free as of 11:00
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local time. the rachel maddow show" starts now. >> chris, if you sign off like that one night, you have to sign off with a tear gas check for the rest of the night you do your show. you set a benchmark for yourself, my friend. well tone. >> that's right. >> thanks, man. thanks to you at home as well for joining this hour. it is now midnight here on the east coast. and 11:00 p.m. in ferguson, missouri, where it is the tenth night of protests continuing at this hour. there is a lot of other news going on in the world tonight. we're going to get to some of that over the course of this hour on this show, but this is a live shot of downtown ferguson right now. police are not enforcing a curfew tonight. and protesters apparently are being allowed more freedom of movement to keep circulating than they were last night. more freedom of movement to keep circulating, to keep up a moving protest column. essentially in downtown.


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