tv Lockup Special Investigation MSNBC September 7, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
he's a very dangerous person and needs to remain detained. >> he's a sweaty guy, man. damn. >> i am telling you that that is the option -- >> i'm telling you if i go back to that school i'm definitely going violate my probation. >> what is that supposed to mean? >> he reaches over to the seat, pull a gun, had it aimed at may chest, i moved, and it hit my arm. >> two years in place and didn't help you change your ways other i'm not certain that any more time here is going do anything for you. today what i'm going do is -- >> i got a lot of years to live, and if i keep messing around with this, i'm going to end up dead or in jail.
. i want to go home, man, i want to go home, man. i can't do. it i can't do it. i can't do it. i can't get this there -- >> made the wrong decision, okay? but it's not the end of the world. you'll get over this. you know, you're not supposed to like it here. this isn't the hilton. >> unfortunately what he wants is just to be with mom. what every kid want, you know. it has him very upset.
>> who's brother? 2000 -- 2000 are brothers. >> a couple weeks ago we were at the bus station, they're not coming to get us. >> there are few places more tightly secured than the close confines of america's juvenile justice system. for some kids, the revolving door of lockup seems to snag e one. >> my mom and my six sisters and my nieces and nephews, and look up to the cell, right or wrong, it had been hard. >> 30 miles south of chicago, lake superior judge mary beth bonaventure presides over a
numbing juvenile docket. 3,200 cases in 2008 alone. it's her job to make sure the kids at this detention center and court complex leave here and forget that there's even an option of graduating to the adult prison system. >> i think some children are just born special a situation that is a bad one. in some neighborhood, it's almost like do unto others before i do it to you. for those of us that weren't raised in those neighborhoods, it is difficult to understand. sometimes it's survival that they get out there and have to perpetrate before they're perpetrated against. >> for years, more than has been documenting the -- msnbc has been documenting the tragic stories that unfold in america's juvenile justice system. with extraordinary access from the indiana supreme court, we're about to go inside a world where cameras by law are forbidden to go. >> you guys are the world's dumbest crooks -- >> 40 vehicles we counted altogether. and they've been doing this over a three-montonth period.
two ransacked the car. two are watching that police don't come. what they failed to understand is that there are cameras. all we had to do was put the face with the name. >> they had a picture of me. they were like, is this your son, my mom was like no. the picture didn't look like he. they said they were about to charge you for lying to police. my mama on probation. they said if i don't turn myself in, they're going to give my mama six years. i'm very mad at myself. i wish i never would have done the things i did. >> is it kenneth or kentrell? >> kentrell. >> they hail from indiana, birthplace of the jackson five. nearly 50% of kids in gary live below the poverty level. more than twice the average in.
>> there's a good chance you won't go home monday because you're currently on probation and have an open complaint. >> i didn't do it -- >> that may be the case but as far as monday which court, the judge makes a decision whether or not you can go home. there's a good chance. you need to know that. >> many times intake department staff see the same faces over and over again despite kids' previous promises they'll never return to the system. >> this is your sixth complaint -- no, actually this will be your seventh complaint. you just left here and that is, what, two weeks later and you're here. he has like a kwois -- a quiet reserve about him. for somebody with a history like that, his disposition doesn't add up. i'm looking at your history here and see that you first got arrested when you were 11-years-old. >> yes. >> his dad is incarcerated for dealing crack, he said. and then a month later, you were
arrested for mischief, about theory, consumption, intimidation, robbery, and theft. mom, you know, there's ten kids, it's a large family. five have been here. so that tells me, you know, he's seen a lot. there's more to the story. did the intake on your brother, and he's telling me you accidentally shot him in the stomach last year. >> that was was i was 11. >> you were 11 when you accidentally did that? wow. >> that was when i first got into the juvenile system. >> oh. you still think about that? >> go ahead and walk on the right side of the hallway. >> i hope he get out. he don't know how this is. he ain't never been in this situation like this where he had to come here and do no days in here. don't know how to react, don't know what to do and consequences
and stuff if we do something bad. >> read these rules. his brother's here, as well. i'm not sure where we want to put him at. >> still a little kid. he don't need to be in here. >> take your socks off. go ahead. squat down like a catcher and cough twice. just like that. squat down and cough twice. [ coughing ] >> one more, cough twice. >> make sure you separate, i can't put him there with his brother. >> put him up there. put the brother in h -- want to keep them separated so that when court comes they can't get their stories to match. they can't lie. so that's why we keep them separated. so he won't see his brother until his court date. >> to paint a richer picture of lake county, indiana, and its juvenile delinquency population, you have to head to the blue-collar town of hobart. the median household income may
be twice that was neighboring gary, but juvenile crime does not discriminate. >> he had a bench warrant. he failed to appear in court. he had a criminal mischief and two count s of violation of probation. his manager was present. his probation officer was present, but he was not. >> i was walking down the street. i guess i had a bench warrant for not appearing in court. the cop knew me by face, turned around and picked me up. >> the nurse you can have an extra blanket to keep your arm up while in your room. he told me when i asked what happened it his arm that he was robbing a drug dealer, and he stated that highway was tr ed d trying to be good to keep drugs off the street. >> i have a reputation as a drug dealer, a gang member, just a bad kid. i'm 18, this will be dropped, won't it? >> no. >> no? >> no.
that's what juveniles think. i mean, it's up to the judge, but -- he didn't come to court thinking i'm going to turn 18, everything's going to be dropped. that's the misconception that juveniles have. they think once they're 18 that everything goes away, and that's not the truth. not really behaving yourself right now. >> yeah, i am. i am behaving -- i ain't gotten into no trouble in a couple of months. >> besides this. >> i ran away from home when i was 17. just wasn't talking to my mom. wasn't getting along real well. so i didn't go to that court date because i wasn't at home. >> tell me exactly what happened to your arm. >> one of my boys told me that this drug dealer was trying to get with his lady. so his his lady set him up, and i was going rob him and take his weed. >> how did you get the lady to set him up? >> he was trying to get with her. she called him over and said that her boy wanted some weed. and when she gave him a hug, i started hitting [ bleep ]. he pulled -- >> with what?
your fists? >> yeah. he pulled out the gun from under the seat and shot me. >> they decided not to charge you with attempted robbery? >> i like the rush of seeing how close i can get to getting caught without actually getting caught. that's kind of what i like it do. you're blackmailing me, i know you're not going to do. you're stupid, mom. >> you being here isn't? wasn't a stray bullet that ent r entered has arm. that was a purposeful act in response to something he was doing of a criminal nature. (woman) the constipation and belly pain feel tight like a vise.
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it hit me in the arm. >> it's not an armed robbery that has devon starkey here this time, though. this 18-year-old, an adult in the eyes of the law, is back here in juvenile detention to see a judge for failing to appear at his last court hearing when he was still a kid. he's walking a fine line. the judge could simply dismiss him on monday from the juvenile system or take an extreme measure of waiving him to adult court. >> i've had multiple violations. i've been locked up three of the past four years. three of the past four years. that's a lot of my childhood. >> you got to retire from this, man. straight up. you can't weld shot. i've seen this guy about four, five times. he's basically one of those incidents where practically raised the kid. >> teenage years right down the drain. this is the time i'm supposed to be having the most fun of my
life. i've been inside these damn cells. >> a lot of these kids come in and out of the system. a lot of them i got close to that have unfortunately got killed. different situations. whether something initiated or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. >> this gunshot wound, man, that kind of turned me around. made me kind of think, man, i was this close to being killed and i'm only 18. i want to do something with my life. i'm tired of coming back into this damn place. >> while boys represent nearly three-quarters of all juvenile arrests, girls aren't immune to the system. >> there is a lot more male residents than there are female. since i've been here, eight years ago, it's always been like that. we might have 10 girls to 80 boys. >> nationally girls only make up about a quarter of the juvenile population. but 58% of all runaway cases
involve girls. >> i know if i were you i would probably want to go home and shower and put on some of my own clothes. >> and own underwear. >> my own underwear. and a bra that fits. >> 15-year-old sidney is serving time in detention for running away and resisting arrest. like clockwork, her mom shows up for visitation every night hoping to get through to sydney before her approaching court date. >> why are you picking? >> because i feel like it. >> why are you so into it? >> i'm not. i'm playing with the orange piece of thread. >> so if you do get out, what are we going to do? >> well, it's not like i'm going to be in here forever. i'm getting out soon. >> then you will go back to school shortly after that. >> i told you, i'm not going to highland. i told you, the one school i will not go to is highland. >> that's the one school district we live in. >> so --
>> again, there's no alternative. >> yeah, there is. i'll go to any alternative school. i just don't want to go to highland. i hate everyone in it. >> i am telling you that that is the option. >> i'm telling you if i go back to that school i'm definitely going to violate my probation. >> what is that supposed to mean? >> don't worried about it. >> no, i am worried about it. what is that supposed to mean? >> don't worry about it. >> [inaudible]. >> that's stupid. you're blackmailing me. i know you're not going to do it. >> i'm not blackmailing you. >> you're not going to do it. that's stupid, mom. >> you being here isn't? >> not really. >> juvenile courts are set up to allow kids to do certain things in their life that they later don't have to have held against them. like making a mistake for the first time. okay, let's shake it off and move on. that's hopefully what juvenile court does for kids who have a harder time figuring out what the right path is. >> i can't stop getting behind
the wheel. i was walking down the street. i seen somebody had left the keys in the ignition. i took that car, too. >> people who's in the places like this, ain't just bad kids. they just make bad choices at that time. >> i've been in two high-speed chases. three, four. >> we do something bad because we just get bored. because ain't got no type of activities. no, like, clubs, no fun centers or nothing out here. people they just trying to have fun. even though it's breaking the law, but they think of it as having fun. >> how many of you guys are ready to make a change in your life today? i want you to raise your hand and i want you to hold it there for a minute. >> every day i think about how i'm going to survive when i go
outside. because i'm going to be able to come back home peacefully. >> you know what, the minute you show up at someone's house and someone pops a cold brew in your face, what are you going to do? exactly. we got one honest person in here. >> i just need to be in a different environment, less violence happening. less bad activities going on in the neighborhood. that's where i think i need to be. >> i acknowledge, lord -- >> i acknowledge, lord -- >> that you've done everything for me -- >> that you've done everything for me -- >> by dying on the cross -- >> by dying on the cross -- >> by raising from the dead -- >> been through so many of these court dates. i don't know. i mean, right now in my head it's a 50/50. detained or released.
i mean, you think about it, a judge, you have this prosecutor. that's a lot of big people to go against when you're just by yourself. you sleep in here you always think about what's going to happen in court. like, what they going to say, what they going to do to you, if they going to detain you or if they going to release you. i can't be doing this. i'm 18 years old. i've got a lot of years to live. and if i keep messing around with this i'm going to end up dead or in jail. >> i know, kenneth, that you want to leave. i would like to give you a break here. in light of this is your sixth referral to this court, four in the year of 2008. you, my friend are a master of diversification. who would have thought three cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home.
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as sunday morning breaks over crown point, indiana, the kids inside lake county juvenile center wake up to face another 24 hours without freedom, family, or friends. >> come on, guys. >> the kids who were arrested on friday have to wait until monday to see the judge. >> in here you always think about your court dates. you think about what's going to
happen in court. like, what they going to say, what they going to do to you. >> luckily for 17-year-old kenneth and his 14-year-old brother kentrell, who is also here at lake county juvenile, they are not alone in their desire to be released and sent home. attorney don ruck represents children in court. >> the perception or misperception of juvenile court is it's similar to the adult court. the reality is the system is much more concerned about getting kids rehabilitated and giving them an opportunity to not having this happen again as opposed to just locking somebody up. one of the challenges that we're going to have is convincing the court and the judge, in particular, that despite you having been here before and lot learned your lesson that you're going to learn your lesson this time and not get into trouble again. kentrell, help me understand some of the things going on in your life that help demonstrate that. >> i'm playing ball. >> where do you play ball at?
>> at the court. >> and tell me a little bit about that. what do you do? what kind of -- what position do you play? >> i just play ball. >> and what else do you do besides playing basketball? >> i just wish he never got himself into this. he's still a little kid. i just pray every day like i hope he get out. >> i know you're a very quiet person, but, i mean, you've got to make a decision if you want to stay in here or not. because it will put both of you guys on the stand, ask you guys some questions and the prosecutor is going to have a chance to ask you guys some questions. she is tough. her job is to protect society from people who commit crimes and people who commit crimes repeatedly. and that's what she sees in you two right now. okay? let's be frank. if the judge thinks you guys are an ongoing threat and you're still a danger, get used to this
place. >> nothing but a little bench warrant. >> what did you do? >> didn't go to court. >> what you have to go to court for? >> probation. >> how long have you been on probation? >> i've been on probation for, like, five years. i'm not really too worried about these court dates. i don't know. now that i'm 18, legally they can't hold me no more than 120 days. as soon as i get this legal trouble out of the way, i know i'm going to have a good life. i have all the essential tools and capabilities to carry me anywhere i want to go. but it's just me finding a way to use them. >> monday morning means court is back in session. those detained downstairs in the
detention center are shackled for their own safety and the safety of those bringing them to the juvenile court wing. >> no talking in the hallway. >> on the judge's docket, today, two very different but equally heavy hearings. the case of two young brothers who have been in detention over and over but still could face years in the juvenile system. and then there's devon who at 18 will stand in the judge's courtroom one last time. if he gets locked up again it will be in adult jail. >> i wish i could just go back to when i was 10 years old. with the knowledge i have now, i could anywhere if i hadn't started messing around with the drugs. >> you think your kids will come home with you today? >> i want them to come home.
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tuesday before speaking to the nation on wednesday about how he plans to combat isis militants in iraq and syria. he spoke with nbc's chuck todd today on "meet the press." bruce levinson, the controlling owner of the atlanta hawks, says he plans to share his part of the team after an eons fifth e-mail came to light in 2012 saying that black folks may be scaring white folks away from games. back to "lockup." it's court day at lake county juvenile. though the hearing is not open to the public, the indiana supreme court has given us special permission to show us what goes on behind the closed doors of the juvenile justice system. today the judge decides which kids will be detained and which kids will go home with their parents. >> i wanted to let you know i talked this morning with your sister.
apparently your mother was having some hypertension or high blood pressure, some heart problem this is morning and can't be here today. i don't know if she went to the hospital or what the circumstances are, but i talked to your sister, and your sister supposedly is coming, although she was supposed to be here at 8:30 and she's not here yet. it's now about noon. so that's the update on things. >> i need to get out. >> is there something you want me to tell your sister when i talk to her again? she's supposed to call me back in a few minutes. >> tell her she needs to bring my mom up here. i need my mom up here. >> i'll let her know. hang tight here for a little while longer an we'll see if either your mother or sister can get here then we can get to court, okay? ♪ >> come on, man.
>> come on, guys. be on your best behavior. if you don't act nice in court nobody is going to trust you to behave in society, okay? stay on the left. left side here. your sister's here. >> raise your right hand and answer out loud, please. do you swear or affirm that the testimony given today is the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> yes. >> please be seated. >> do you have any witnesses you would like to call on behalf of the boys? >> judge, i would call octavia to the stand please. their mother is not here today, is that right? >> yes. >> and tell us for what reason their mother is not here. >> my mom has been going through high blood pressure. she's just been diagnosed with cancer. she was sick last night. i had to take her to the hospital. from that point i had to stay with the kids. so -- >> how many other brothers and sisters do you have? >> besides us? >> yes. >> right now there are nine. >> are you the oldest?
>> i'm the oldest girl, yes. >> is there a dad in the picture? >> he was until about four months ago. he was incarcerated. kenneth is the one who's really been the man of the house. he's really our backbone. >> that's all i have? >> ma'am? >> no questions, judge. >> ken, we spoke yesterday about what the court is here today to decide. that is whether you should stay detained or whether you should be released. >> i should be released because i know i ain't a bad kid. i ain't no harm to nobody. i just made a bad decision at that moment. i know i did something wrong. but i know i can fix it. now i know that life is serious, and life more is about me being at home and being with my family than being locked up. >> kenneth, how many times have you been on probation with this court? >> twice. >> are you on probation right now? >> yes. >> is getting involved in criminal acts a violation of
probation? >> yes, ma'am. >> i have no further questions, judge. >> as related to kentrell, this is his fourth criminal delinquency. presently he has an attempted robbery. that would be a "b" felony if he were an adult. criminal recklessness, that would be a "d" felon. attempted robbery in it was "b" felony tells me either a weapon was used or a victim was seriously injured. this is kenneth's sixth delinquency referral. i ask they both remain detained as serious danger to this community. >> judge, the preference in any case like this when children are being detained that rather than stay locked up that go home. i would suggest that the court to release them home. it may not be the home that we all think is the best environment, but it's their home. >> the probation officer has
weighed in and has indicated to the court that he feels that both boys should be detained as a danger to the community because of the repeated acts of delinquency. what i'm going to do today is order that they remain detained pending their next hearing. any questions? >> no, judge. >> all right. then these hearings are adjourned. these are two boys, certainly the younger brother, who is following in the older brother's footsteps. the oldest boy six times he's been detained here. six times. and the mom's not here today. she may or may not be ill. i have no idea. there's no supervision. i think tomorrow they would be out on the street. they don't know any different. if six incarcerations don't change your behavior, one overnighter is not going to do it. i do think that eventually they will end up hurting somebody if
not themselves. >> they're both staying. detained. i'm going to bonaventura? >> will you state your name, please? >> devon starkey. >> how old are you, devon? >> i'm 18. >> we're here because devon was arrested on a bench warrant issued by the court. it says here your whereabouts were unknown by the juvenile lake county probation department. further he has failed to attend his court-ordered counseling and lastly, he has failed to attend an educational program on a regular basis. go on and have a seat up here, please. >> you were ordered by the court to attend counseling, is that correct? >> yes, ma'am. >> did you attend counseling? >> i had left the home and was trying to live on my own. so i didn't attend from april to june. >> let's talk about why you left the home. why did you leave your mother's
home? >> the reason i left is we started getting into arguments. i was getting into a little bit of trouble. i started smoking weed again. i left the home because i was scared that when i did go to court these would be brought up, and i would end up getting in trouble. >> what were you thinking was going to happen to the case, devon? >> i was thinking upon my 18th birthday it would just be dropped. as the case is, it isn't. >> as it relates to your arm in a sling, what happened to you, devon? >> while i was on my own i was hanging with the wrong group of people and got myself into a situation where i got shot. >> so you are very lucky that you're alive, aren't you? >> yes, ma'am. >> you indicated that you wanted to take devon home with you today. >> yes, i do. >> do you think he learned his lesson this time? >> i really do. he almost died. i almost lost my son. i had to give him some tough love. and my tough love was he couldn't come home. for two weeks prior to him being shot he came to me for two weeks
begging, mom, please let me come home. please. he said, i'll straighten up, mom, please. and i wouldn't let him. i said no. i can't do that. i can't let you in the house. and then i find out he was shot. >> so on this monday the judge has found it's in the best interest for the brothers kenneth and kentrell to remain detained until their next court hearing. will devon's mother's pleas and his age be enough to convince the judge it's time for him to come home? >> he's on the verge of doing something really horrible in his life and taking him away from you forever or on the verge of being able to turn that corner. t what they get from alaska, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america.
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facility. her demand, better facilities for kids and families. >> the family support in these hearings or in general with the kids whether in the hearing or outside the hearing is monumental. i think if there was one single thing that i would point to to be able to predict the success or failure of a young person is the family involvement and support. sounds like for about four years now the court has been involved not only with his life, but obviously your life as well. >> mm-hmm. >> so he's turned 18 now. you're a family that's had a lot of intervention. pretty quickly there will be none. >> we are here to back him up 100%. i do have a a lot of family support. everybody is pulling for him. you know, but he has to pull for himself. >> ma'am? >> judge, i'm really torn.
everybody's tap dancing around the shooting of devon. that wasn't a stray bullet that entered his arm. that was a purposeful act in response to something devon was doing in a criminal nature. we also have problems -- he's an adult now. if he sits here for three or four months, i don't know what that's going to do with him. >> i don't either. 120 days here -- if two years in placement didn't help you change your ways, i'm not so certain that any more time here is going to do anything for you. hopefully getting shot in the arm has. everything happens for a reason. at least i believe it does. today what i'm going to do is, today i'm going to grant the petition to modify probation. i am going to order you be released to the custody of your mother today. >> thank you. >> i'm going to order you be released from probation. >> thank you. >> any questions? >> no, ma'am. >> i was a little surprised that
she gave me one last break. >> if he was 14 i would be doing something totally different, i'm sure. >> you got a good break. >> i know. >> how long have i known you now? you were about this big when i first met you, right? >> yeah. >> about 13 or 14. >> we've done all we can do. he needs to begin his adult life and accept the consequences for whatever his actions become now in his adult life. are you going home? >> yes. >> huh? >> hope so. >> you hope so? >> i've been hanging in. i've been praying every day, reading the bible every day. >> what's your p.o. saying? >> i don't know. >> did they give you a recommendation? >> no, but i think it would be fair if she just give me and my
brother one more chance. anything but boy school placement and lake county jail. >> all right. call your first witness. >> judge, i would call the mother to the stand. >> the brothers' chances of being released are far greater now that their mother appears in court. there are no juries in the juvenile system. the judge has the final say on what's best for kids and the community. >> are you able to take ken and kentrell home with you today and provide the oversight and support they would need if they were to be released today? >> yes. >> okay. tell us how would you be able to provide the structure to your sons so that they wouldn't get in any more trouble? >> for one, i'm going to keep them in the house. because i don't want to see them on the streets.
i don't want them to get hurt. i don't want them to do the wrong things. i've been trying to teach them, but they goes out in the streets and they listen to their friends and get in trouble. but i want them to come home. because their brothers and sisters miss them, too. >> anything else you would like to say? >> no. >> what are you going to do differently? he's had four referrals to the juvenile court this year, alone. >> i'm going to take control over them. >> how are you going to do that? >> i'm going to be a harder parent. >> so you don't have any plan of action for it to change? you just think it's going to change? >> no, i know it's going to change. >> well, what is the plan in action? >> i'm going to put my foot down. >> so you didn't before? you just let them do what they wanted to do before? >> no, i didn't pretty much let them do anything they want to do. >> okay. >> i tell them to do the right things, but they take it upon themselves to do what they want
to do when they're outside my house. but when they're in my house they do what i tell them to do. >> so kenneth defies you? >> sometimes. >> i have no further questions. >> the probation department is recommending that they remain detained. and be ordered to complete a psychological evaluation. there's also in the neighborhood, i've talked to mom about this, a lot of gang activity on the street that they live on. i believe that they are affiliated with the gangs. a lot of drug activity as well. i've discussed that with her, so i strongly recommend they remain detained pending the psychological evaluations. >> anything else? >> yes, judge. regarding kentrell, the state agrees with mr. smith. he's a very dangerous person and needs to remain detained. as far as mr. gant, state also feels he's a dangerous person. i think that the court cannot take the chance that he may cause another person harm. he needs to remain detained as a danger to the community also.
>> judge, we agree with the psychological evaluation component of the recommendation. i would like the opportunity to at least argue that they should no longer be detained while the case pends. >> the decision is not an easy one for the judge. and answers won't come overnight. services need to be ordered. placement options explored and ultimately she must decide if it's in everyone's best interest to send the boys home while all this is in motion. >> well today, of course, the court will order that both boys have a psychological evaluation. i know, kenneth, that you want to leave. i read the letter you wrote to this court about your girlfriend having a baby soon. i'm certain that you would like to be there, as you told me in your letter. i would like to give you a break here, but in light of this is your sixth referral to this court, four in the year of 2008, the court's going to order you remain detained pending your next hearing in that you may be a danger to yourself or the community. as it related to kentrell the court is also going to order he
be detained pending his next hearing, pending his fourth hearing. this is his fourth referral to the court. and these are serious charges. for all of those reasons the court will find he may be a danger to himself or to the community. they'll both remain detained pending that their next hearing is on december 5th. i don't like anybody to be in pain. certainly not kids. i love them. i've been doing this job for 26 years. the work is heartbreaking. but there is no more work that's more important than the work in a juvenile court. >> i can't do it. i can't do it, man. smart sarah. seeking guidance. just like with your investments. that sets you apart. it does? it does. you're type e*. and seeking another perspective is what type e*s do. oh, and your next handhold...
both of those evaluations were completed. with kentrell we did decide that at this time in the best interest of the community and for himself that he be placed in a residential treatment facility. >> with respect to kenneth, tell us about your recommendations. >> we also agreed that he needs residential placement to meet his needs. >> you're not recommending that they go home with their mother? >> not at this time. >> that's all i have, judge. >> all right. >> i have no further questions. >> did you want to speak or no? >> i can't. >> you want to try? i can ask you the questions very simply. judge, i call their mother very briefly just for a couple quick questions.
now, you understand that there's a recommendation that both of your sons be placed in a residential placement for the purpose of receiving a variety of services and educational tools and things like that? >> yes. >> what did you want to say with respect to those options? do you think your kids can come home with you today or should they -- >> it's for the best. i want them to come home, but if they need help, i agree with that. >> you will just leave it to the court to decide? >> yes. >> that's all i have, judge. >> thank you. you may have a seat back there. >> judge, there's no argument that kentrell needs some type of therapeutic placement.
the psychological evaluation shows that kentrell has significant mental health needs. my problem with kenneth is that he's committed numerous acts of delinquency. that's what indiana boy school is meant to address. then you factor in that he's had counseling provided to him, and he hasn't been tearbly amenable to the counselling. he has a track record and the track record isn't very good at this point. you know, it's a serious matter for this court to decide that it's going to invest itself in a child to the extent that this county and this court is being asked to invest themselves in kenneth and i don't see that there's going to be a lot of bang for our buck to be perfectly honest. i think he's a dangerous person. i think he should be committed to indiana boy school. >> well, i would agree that i think indiana boy school can
address a lot of the issues that kenneth is facing. i know this much, if he were in the adult system, he would not be able to receive the treatment and the rehabilitation and the services that the juvenile court is designed to provide to children like kenneth and like kentrell. the state and the taxpayers are going to pay whether we send them to the department of correction or we send them to placement. maybe we won't get the bang for the buck as you've described it, but i'm going to still put my faith in the juvenile court system in that i think we can do and do a better job with kids than the adult system can do, and going to jail is going to do for him. i would love nothing more than to send both boys to you home. that would be really the ideal thing to do. i think you as a mom, why you're crying your heart out back there, knows that's not the right thing right now. kenneth is on the verge. he's on the verge of doing something really horrible in his life and taking him away from
you forever or he's on the verge of maybe being able to turn the corner. maybe if we hold his hand and help him turn that corner he'll be able to do that. today, i'm going to make him a ward of a court and order that he placed appropriately. i will set his matter for review in three months in any event. as it results to kentrell, i think this is a young man that probably the juvenile court system was designed for in some respects. i couldn't let him walk away from us without trying to get him to a point where he's at least literate and can function in some type of a job. today the court is going to make him a ward of the court in order that he be placed at idtc, the indiana developmental training center in indianapolis. all right, then this hearing is adjourned. thank you. >> man, they don't care about us, man. that is [ bleep ]. this is [ bleep ].
>> hey, everybody in their cell now! >> i burned her on her face. i burned her on her sides. i pistol-whipped her on her hip. >> their crimes can be heinous. >> i'm here for solicitation to commit aggravated rape. >> their feelings can be intense. >> i'm trying hard to stay out of trouble and get my [ bleep ] together.