tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC December 4, 2014 11:00pm-12:01am PST
there and continue this another night. thanks very joining me. chris hayes is up next. you can feel inside the pain of "hardball" starts right now. federal case. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight, the grounds for a federal case against the officer or officers involved in the death of eric garner. is what we see reason in itself to bring one or more officers to trial in federal court? was this citizen denied his rights under the law or treated fairly? it's a fair question to ask. a decision that the united states justice department will have to make. if attorney general eric holder gets his way, we'll get that answer soon. we'll also get to some other big
news tonight. the government shutdown being pushed by the hard republican right. that and the first strike just scored by a secretive figure in the hillary clinton camp to undercut the candidate some believe could become her number one hazard on the road to nomination. let's go to the story that's fired up the streets of new york. nbc's stephanie gosk is with the protesters in foley square in lower manhattan. stephanie? >> good evening, chris. these protesters are on the move. if it's anything like last night, they'll continue to be on the move. minimum destruction. it's unclear where they're going to head. early estimates there are about 500,000 people in this crowd right now. so they are moving slowly. there's also a pretty heavy police presence here. one of the things that's angered this crowd particularly is the
secrecy of that grand injury process. and they were hopeful that all of that evidence, the same way it was released in the ferguson case would be released in the garner case. instead what they got today was this minimal trickle of information that really shared none of the relevant witness testimony, particularly from those police officers that they wanted to hear. >> the people there, mainly african-american? are they a diverse crowd? can you tell? >> it's a very diverse crowd. and it also represents a lot of people, to be honest, protesting quite a number of different things. obviously what has galvanized them has been this case. as we've seen and really these protests started with the ferguson decision, the crowds seem to be growing in size. but unlike ferguson, they have been mainly peaceful here in new york.
anyone trying to get around the city tonight or last night will have a very difficult time. chris? >> thanks for that reporting, stephanie gosk. let's go to msnbc's amanda. she's following the protesters to the brooklyn bridge. what are you seeing there? >> hi, chris. hundreds of protesters here gathered trying to cross the brooklyn bridge. there are police barricades up but they are able to inch their way. there's a short walkway to come through. but they have many streets here blocked off. there's a heightened police presence all around. things remain peaceful. they are chanting peacefully. more than just about eric garner. there are workers unions, students, advocates. it's a very diverse crowd out here. they're trying to prove this is a growing movement. >> are they able to shut down the bridge?
>> they are trying right now. there are some cars that are on the street but they haven't been able to fully shut down the bridge quite yet. >> thank you, amanda sakuma. i'm joined by professor paul butler. a former federal prosecutor himself. philip holloway and also former prosecutor and former police officer, both of those titles went to him. and a criminal defense attorney. my main focus with mr. butler, professor butler is a criminal case in criminal court. when you look at the pictures, i want to show some what happened with the victim, eric garner just laid there for minutes and minutes. no sense of emergency. maybe he died in those moments. >> didn't treat him like a human being but like a dirty dog on the street. i don't get why there's no homicide case.
we don't know what the grand jury saw that we didn't see in that video, why they didn't charge him with at least voluntary manslaughter, at minimum negligent homicide. the feds have to come in. when african-americans were victims of violence, often state prosecutors wouldn't bring the case. the feds have to step in then. it's a high hurdle, not impossible. >> what would be the charge. you say homicide. that carries a lot of possibilities. what would you say? recklessness? strangling? >> if we're looking at new york law, voluntary manslaughter. i think the cop just lost it. when you kill in the heat of passion -- >> the guy with the chokehold. >> what about the trickiness of the coroner's report. the chokehold, the weight on his stomach and he was an overweight guy. can you charge one guy -- what about the other officers and why were they given immunity?
this is the part that disturbs me. why would you squeeze people with immunity to get to somebody? >> in theory, they were given immunity to give up the goods on the main cop. >> the district attorney wanted to get him? >> if he wanted to get him, he'd get him. i'm a former prosecutor. it's absolutely true. the reason there's no indictment in garner is because the district attorney -- >> was that williams who said that? >> i think it was a judge in the new york court of appeals, wapner, i believe is his name. the man that didn't want the indictment, his name is mr. donovan, he's the district attorney of staten island. don't blame these hard working men and women of the grand injury. they just did what they were told. >> we saw this picture today. additional video from july 17th that shows what happened after eric garner was placed in that
chokehold. the video was shot by an onlooker and shows police officers monitoring garner as he appears to lay unconscious on the ground. let's watch. you can see two emts have arrived and several minutes later, he's taken away on a stretcher. >> and at one point one of the officers is heard saying, garner is still breathing. that's because somebody was saying, why aren't you giving the guy cpr. i want to bring in philip holloway now. i'm getting to a couple of points. a number of factors led to this guy's death. then just like -- not everything is just like.
you see this guy lying there for six minutes. it's not the way you treat a citizen at the edge of death. he's not breathing apparently. he's not moving. what did they think his condition was? and why is he still cuffed? >> that's the $64,000 question we all want to know the answer to. there's two key takeaways from this whole entire incident if you boil it down to its basics. this may surprise you. in chronological order, the first takeaway is mr. garner would still be alive if he had simply put his hands behind his back as he was initially requested to. he would also still likely be alive if the officers of the new york city police department had not violated their own policy. that policy has been in place for over 30 years. the policy against using
chokeholds. it causes positional asphyxiation. and it's lethal. and it is justified only when lethal force can be justified. that's the two key takeaways. he could have saved his own life but the police if they would have done their job the way they were trained to, he would still be alive. >> this is a tax avoidance crime. he's accused of selling untaxed cigarettes. he's a white collar criminal. not holding up cab drivers or anything look that. may be a big guy but he's a white collar criminal. why are they using that kind of force? suppose he was a tax cheat, running some operation. the store front. the guys they pick up on "60 minutes" all the time. why would they use this physicality? it looks look they are picking up a guy with four knives on him and a couple of guns and he's just shot somebody. why do they treat him like a street criminal? he's not a street tough, or is he? i've never heard anyone say he is.
>> all those have to factor into the overall equation, including his own physical health. the crime itself was petty. the officers have the legal right to arrest him. and when they chose to do so, he was legally -- he had to put his hands behind his back and comply with their lawful orders. in some states, you can be arrested for speeding. you can go to jail for 12 months for speeding or running a stop sign. whether or not you like the law, even if it was petty, they had a right to arrest him. >> how do you see this case going to federal court? that's where i see it. >> it would surprise me if the federal government did not step in and get an indictment. if anyone just looks at the video, it's appalling when you look at it. it's clear eric garner's civil
rights were violated. even if we agree the police had the right to take him down and arrest him, at what point did that force have to stop? and that's the problem. did he really have to put his knee on his head and press his head into the pavement? is that excessive? that's one of the things the federal government is going to be looking at. >> that's what got to me as a civilian. i'm looking at a guy who already had put him in a chokehold. then another ten seconds. he put his arm in a straight arm and leveraged his whole body weight as he jams the guy's head into cement. >> and for what? >> i can't even watch it? what were they doing this? for selling -- not even weed but a tobacco cigarette. but this is part of a policy. when people talk about the need for broad reform, what the new york police did was stop doing stop and frisk because a judge said that was unconstitutional. then this broken window zero
tolerance where for any little thing they arrest you because they want to get you in the system. >> there's also the philosophy years ago which is if you let people break windows and break the law with impunity, eventually they'll be selling drugs or hookers on the corner. >> getting people with criminal records. mr. brown was stopped for j-walking. it leads to this breakdown in trust in the communities that are supposed to protect and serve them. >> can i jump in? >> yes, sir. go ahead. >> well, in terms of police training, just last month, i completed a police training course here in georgia. it's taught when you are going to restrain someone you do so using only as much force as is necessary to effect the arrest. if you have to take them to the ground you do so in the face up
as opposed to the prone position or face down like we saw in the garner case. the reason it's taught that way is because positional asphyxiation due to these face-down prone chokehold maneuvers is lethal. and you don't know who amongst us has health problems such as mr. garner had that makes people like that especially susceptible to death. the better police practice is face up or we call it supine restraint rather than prone. >> do you think there will be a federal case? do you think? do you think there's enough here that it's likely that attorney general holder will act here and intervene and bring a case? >> i do. i think the videotape speaks for itself in the sense of how eric garner was treated and how his civil rights were treated.
if you look at the tape and see the excessive use of force. i don't understand how anyone can say this excessive use of force was reasonable, especially since it continued. we're going to take him down and arrest him. why continue the use of force? he didn't impose a threat. he didn't try to fight back. so why? why? we have to ask those hard questions. as a people, as a society, we wanter police officers to be held accountable for what it is they do. >> mr. butler, professor, do you think he's going to go with this? >> i heard attorney general eric holder last night. he sounded angry. he sounded like the police have finally gone too far. and there's a precedent. in 1990 in new york, a man, police put him in an illegal chokehold. he died. state prosecutor, big fat not guilty. the judge, the trial judge said miscarriage of justice. they got up here and lied.
he stepped in and got a conviction. >> will there be a federal case taken here? >> i think that's more likely than the case in ferguson. i can certainly see the argument made there's probable cause for negligent homicide. whether that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt will remain to be seen. i can see the case being made out here. >> i think attorney general holder will go after a systemic problem in ferguson and a particular one in this case. they look at that guy and sympathize with him as a person. he's even a likable looking guy. i can't explain why but he seems like a likable guy. doesn't look like a guy who is going to punch a cop. >> most importantly, he didn't. that's what makes this so egregious. >> everybody agrees, i think, to varying degrees. philip holloway, professor butler and midwin charles. rand paul blamed eric garner's death in part on the cigarette tax.
we'll get reaction on the grand jury's decision not to indict from some of the potential 2016 candidates. hillary clinton has spoken out and chris christie. this is "hardball." the place for politics. her smile is so white. i was pretty stunned myself. removes fourteen years of stains. see? crest whitestrips work on a deeper level than paste. whitening toothpaste only removes surface stains, but whitestrips go below the enamel surface to safely remove deep stains. don't miss our buy one get one free offer this holiday season!
as you watch these protests on the streets of new york and at the brooklyn bridge over the garner case, attorney general holder announced the findings of a justice department investigation into a police department in cleveland, ohio. holder says police in cleveland systematically engage in excessive use of force and violated people's civil rights because of a lack of training, supervision and accountability. the report is the result of a civil rights investigation launched last year, well before the most recent incident. the one where police shot and killed a 12-year-old who had been pointing what turned out to be a fake gun. we'll be right back. ♪
welcome back to "hardball." we continue to watch the protesters, especially on the brooklyn bridge and around the country. they are apparently ready to close it down. reaction from the potential 2016 presidential candidates is beginning to roll in. here it is. >> when i was u.s. attorney, i used to really, really dislike when politicians who didn't know one-tenth of what the prosecutors and the grand jury knew would second-guess their work based purely for political reasons or out of ignorance. so i'm not going to second-guess that work. there are folks who will review what's been done and take whatever actions are deemed appropriate. i'm not going to get in the process of second-guessing the process in a jurisdiction that's outside of mine. >> hillary clinton addressed it
while speaking at the massachusetts conference for women. >> a lot of hearts are breaking, and we are asking ourselves, aren't these our sons? aren't these our brothers? i'm very pleased that the department of justice will be investigating what happened in ferguson or staten island. those families and those communities and our country deserve a full and fair accounting, as well as whatever substantive reforms are necessary to ensure equality, justice and respect for every citizen. >> both those comments by political people there were very careful. hillary clinton very careful not
to render a judgment. in the case of governor christie, very careful in defending the very role of a grand jury. he wasn't going to question the process. the proper role for politicians is our topic. what should politicians say or not say when these things are happening? joining me is the speaker of new york city council and former rnc chair, michael steel. let me go to the speaker. what do you think a politician should say? nixon notoriously came out and said charles manson was guilty and almost screwed the case. should politicians speak about the rightness or wrongness of a injury decision? >> i believe we have a responsibility, and i think that, at least hillary clinton was trying to empathize with what we have here. and that's really important at a time like this. and, you know, i have spoken out. i've said many times i was extremely angry, and disappointed with the decision.
and i said today i think the decision was wrong on the part of the grand jury. i think people want to be able to hear that politicians are being real about their feelings. i'm not trying to play politics. we have to understand there are systemic biases that exist and there has to be a recognition of that and we have a responsibility to try to eradicate that injustice and right the wrongs that are systemic. >> do you think there's a problem with police handling of minorities? >> there has to be an improvement of community relations. i've been vocal about that. there have been steps taken but don't think it's gone far enough. the steps the mayor has outlined, the training, that stop and frisk was out of control. we've seen incredible downsize of that. the retooling of marijuana arrests. there are efforts being made and that only has come and only has come out of mobilizations, out of persistent, out of people
clamoring for justice. that is how we've achieved change. the people being out there on the streets is something that i think is a manifestation of that anger. it's being done in a very productive way. we have not had any incidents and that's important to be respected. >> do you think people clamoring for justice means there's been an injustice? >> i believe there has been in this case. >> do you believe the people clamoring for justice is evidence there's been an injustice? >> i think people are experiencing the frustrations they feel that there's a system that has not been responsive and has not been meting out justice equally to all communities. >> just one last time. do you believe that means there's been injustice? >> i believe in this case that there has been injustice. i believe that the grand jury's responsibility was just to find probable cause and kick this over to a trial. and i think that there was injustice done in this case.
i can speak for myself. i cannot speak for every single individual. >> you believe the police officers in that case should have been indicted or some level of homicide? >> this should have been taken to a criminal trial. >> but the only way is to indict. >> exactly. i believe there should have been indictment. i believe the grand jury was wrong. >> what do you think, mike? >> i think she's got it exactly right. >> you think politicians should be able to render justice saying in the case of -- she has very carefully not saying people should be convicted but a trial court. >> i think politicians can speak on behalf of the anguish and pain of a community. >> can they render a judgment about a criminal case? >> no, they just -- >> but it's after the fact. it's not, as you led off with nixon almost ruining the manson case by speaking prematurely. it's after the fact. they can harness this frustration and anger and constructively direct it towards fixing a system that everyone
perceives to be broken, particularly in this case that there is something that did not work. what was it that this prosecutor saw that the rest of us apparently didn't see that led him to think this was not a -- >> what did you think of governor christie's statement that he's fine with the decision of the court. >> he's a prosecutor. i don't expect him to say anything that's going to be outlined of supporting the very process that he was in charge of for many years. same with hillary clinton. she gave the empathetic speech but not getting to the specifics of what this case means. this is really a tension between black america and white america, particularly with young black men that we've got to expose and deal with. and the political leadership i don't think has it within them to do it. >> do you think there will be a federal case? do you think the feds will move in here? >> i am optimistic.
you have to be optimistic. we've seen it in the case of anthony baez about 20 years ago as well where the department of justice did intervene. find out his civil rights have been violated and that officer went to jail. there have been opportunities where the department of justice has intervened. that has resulted in justice for the victims. and i really, my heart goes out to the family. the garner family is one that we all suffer. and that family does not have him coming home at night. so for something that as you've been showing in the video over and over was just incredible to see happen before our eyes. >> i'm totally with you. thank you, madam speaker and michael steel. it's a tricky matter, but i think you were very clear. when we come back, much more on the garner case and what law enforcement can be doing differently. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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welcome back to "hardball." the use of force by police in places like staten island and cleveland has raised questions about law enforcement all together. joining me is the florida chief of police val demings. are you still known as chief? >> yeah, it's still a title that i carry. >> i love the title. a lot of punch to it. this is deadly serious. police officers, when you are sitting in a squad room or somewhere in a squad car and watching this tape we're all watching of these five guys climbing on this big guy and bringing him down, choking him, asphyxiating him, causing eventually a heart attack and letting him lie there for a while without any effort to save him, what do good hearted police think when they watch this? >> what i can tell you is this is a nation right now in crisis. but it's not something that we cannot overcome.
good things can rise out of the ashes if we don't fumble the ball. it's important as we continue the conversations about the tragedies we've seen in several cities, it's important to continue to say the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers in this nation are good, decent hard working people who per form their duties admirably. i have watched the video. there's been a lot of talk about cameras and now here we are with video. the thing that is or has been troubling to me is once mr. garner was on the ground and obviously in distress and medical distress, there was no sense of urgency. we know the sense of urgency to render aid can make the difference between life and death. but we did not see that in this case. and the video is, i believe, quite clear and convincing. believe me that that is troubling to good law enforcement officers all around this nation.
>> explain the need to physically arrest a person, even with a white collar criminal, a guy selling untaxed cigarettes, why you have to physically cuff him and bring him into custody in that physical manner. is that a police normal rule of engagement? >> it's always an option to make a physical arrest, although there are other alternatives of issuing citations or notices to appear in court as opposed to making a physical arrest. i know there are a lot of departments looking at those particular policies. once a decision is made to make a physical arrest, there are certain guidelines in order to do that. as we know, the actions of the arrestee kind of dictate the actions of the police officer. you start off verbally with giving verbal commands and the subject's actions dictate the actions of the officer. >> he put his hands back. i wouldn't say up like in
surrender, but put them back in a way of like, i'm not going to let you put the cuffs on. the guy jumps him from behind and puts him in a chokehold. >> i've served as a law enforcement officer for 28 years. i've worked with some of the best men and women in law enforcement. when i look at this particular situation, it's on camera. the video is clear. it's quite troubling. we know that chokeholds were permissible throughout the country some time ago. they were banned because of the fact that they can cause death or great bodily harm. when i look at the circumstances in this particular case, it's clear and convincing that the officer did violate policy. chokeholds can be used, though, in deadly force situations, when there's no holds-barred if an officer has the right to use deadly force to save their lives or the lives of innocent people.
clearly in this case, that was not the case. the officer's actions, when he made the decision to use the chokehold, he knew or should have known his actions were wrong and should have known the consequences of those actions. >> thank you so much. coming up with a roundtable. ted cruz and his band on the right want to shut the government down. joe mccarthy is at it again. plus, the secret figure in the hillary clinton campaign who is already undercutting what could be her biggest competition on the way to the nomination. a remote that lives on your phone.
welcome back to "hardball." call them the shutdown boys. they are angry and being led into battle by ted cruz. yesterday senator cruz rallied a group of house conservative red hots to defund a deal to fund the government. it was a familiar cast of characters at yesterday's cruz confine including michele bachmann, steve king and louis gomert. cruz wants to use the government funding bill to destroy the president's actions on illegal immigration. he wants to add a poison pill to defund the department of immigration. he wants to add a poison pill to defund the department of immigration. >> we will not allocate taxpayer dollars to lawless and illegal amnesty. the simple thing that i would urge to every republican who spent the last year campaigning across this country saying if you elect me, we will stop president obama's amnesty.
do what you promise. house speaker john boehner does not want another government shutdown and today held a symbolic vote rebuking president obama's policy. the hard-liners don't want a symbolic vote. they want to raise hell. columbia professor doreen warren, "washington post" reporter nia malika henderson and bloomberg's jonathan allen. i want to go with you, john. this plan by the new joe mccarthy which is to blame the government. they are always traitors to the cause. where is he going with this? demagoguery is not a good career choice. huey long, coglan. they had their spurts and then puttered out. no one has been a long-term demagogue. >> the rest of the republican
party is distancing themselves from ted cruz. sure there were some folks on the capitol steps. they'll have another fight an homeland security in february, maybe march. they want to get this off the table, get into the new year. you'll find that in the senate more than in the house. there's almost no chance the government shuts down. i think what there is some concern about is it might not be this full year omnibus and a short-term continuing -- if democrats hold their votes for this plan that boehner has, the government is going to stay open. >> what do you think of the clown car? it's really objective. michele bachmann, come on. steve king is a piece of work. where do they find these people? what kind of districts keep sending them back? >> that's the structural reason. these are districts drawn to advantage certain kind of extremes --
>> you know who made a mistake? eric cantor. he created this so far beyond him they wouldn't elect him anymore. >> great for re-election but not for governance. >> they are sending these people to washington. everyone knew who cruz was. they wanted him to say no, no, no and rally smaller people to his campaign, his cause. >> this is the internal tension that the right has to deal with. and with the moderates on the issue of immigration when you have business interests in the chamber of commerce who want immigration reform that doesn't go well with the tea party right. >> is this like the french needed the iroquois to win? you know they aren't that different ideologically. just tactics. >> cruz has a real strategy here. not for governing. it's about ted cruz. it's about 2016. he's got a real flank in the republican party that really like him. he's good on television.
certainly gets you going. >> i have a long memory more than all you. he's so much like joe mccarthy in the way he makes his indictments and sweats and makes these arguments. everybody is a traitor but him. >> imagine him in a debate against rand paul. >> finally got hagel. he must be thrilled by hagel's demise. he's going to defund air force one. this is wacko bird stuff. i'm going to cut off gas for your airplane. >> nobody takes that seriously. >> they don't? steve king is there. michele bachmann. >> the congressman from western iowa. you'll get a conservative representative. the senator from texas. one senator from texas. >> hiding from -- >> the more you say things like that, the less they take you seriously. if they want to go after funding for a particular agency, there's a way to do that. the president said we're not
going to prosecute. it's hard to cut money and create prosecution by cutting money. it's a difficult thing to do. >> let's talk about a policy situation. they follow this thing called the hastert rule. they won't do anything unless they get a majority republicans. they come to pelosi and say you need 218. does she play hard to get? >> i think she's going to play hard to get. she's got a lot of power here. it looks like the democrats are very much amounting for a fight. they have this whole strike -- >> the good news here could come out of this. if you have a boehner combination with nancy pelosi, even to get through the night and survive this mess and keep the government alive, could that be a precedent for passing a little with bipartisan agreement. if they'll have to keep the government going by agreeing with each other. pass the senate bill. we're all agreeing to have a vote. >> that's a big jump from keeping the government open to
an immigration bill -- >> i think boehner should -- you'll not be speaker forever. you could be speaker and have the kennedy profile of courage award. the roundtable is staying with. we're going to talk about hillary. a few of her people are taking buck shots at her opponents. is she vulnerable on the left or is that the word for it? on the more outsider point of view. is she too establishment. does she have a legitimate rival that could expose her weakness of being too establishment. we'll find out soon. she may announce some time in january. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ laughs ] i'm flo! i know! i'm going to get you your rental car. this is so ridiculous.
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we're back with our round table and it's going to get really hot now. dorian, nia and jonathan are all with us again. hillary clinton is nearing a decision on 2016. i personally think the decision has been made but politico is reporting the former secretary of state has been meeting with potential campaign managers this week. and yesterday she also sat down with president obama for a quiet meeting that was not on the official schedule. with you while clinton is the odds-on favorite for democrats in 2016 some clinton insiders are forecasting it won't be an easy road to the nomination for her. ian guerin of the "washington post" writes that "backers and allies of hillary rodham clinton are increasingly worried about the threat posed by a motley field of democratic presidential hopefuls who could complicate or even derail a clinton candidacy in 2016 by focusing attention on her weaknesses."
all that motley field competing for the democratic nomination is comprised of three likely candidates right now, maryland governor martin o'malley, independent bernie sanders who's actually a socialist of vermont and jim webb. but article had an interesting take on webb, the former reagan official turned democrat who formally announced his exploratory committee in a no frills video he posted on youtube last no. that video according to the post story earned scorn from at least one clinton insider. "clinton backers snicker a bit about webb. one strategist called his internet announcement a 14-minute," here's the phrase, "hostage video." jon-s that an attempt to make the guy look unbalanced? >> yeah, absolutely. look, at the very least it's insensitive to his military service. here's a navy cross winner, a guy who threw his body in front of a grenade to try to shield one of his -- one of his fellow soldiers. >> so who's the sniper here? who's putting out the --
>> i don't know which adviser it was but i will say this. hillary clinton's advisers are awkwardly both punching down and below the belt right now. when i say it's at least ignorant of what he did -- >> why would you punch in somebody's gut that's got no attention yet? >> at most they're trying to make it sound like he's got ptsd. it's the swift boating of jim webb -- >> it's more like what reagan did to mike dukakis. remember he was getting consulting, he had psychological problems, i wouldn't want to insult an invalid. >> and here's a guy who simply does not pose a threat to hillary clinton. you know a lot about his background. most democrats do not. >> now they do. >> his background in virginia, he barely won that race in 2006, i think he won by 2006. >> against george allen. >> i think it's a smart strategy -- >> what, to go after the -- >> on one hand they say please, we want people to be in the democratic primary. on the other hand it's a shot across the bow to see we will take you down. >> it sort of -- >> they're not going to back down? a navy cross winner, bronze star, purple heart.
that guy's going to back down? if anything that brings him in. >> that's the thing. i don't think it's designed to make him back down. i think it's designed to pump these folks up -- >> i'm hearing from -- you must be a nixon fan, huh? anyway, he would bring hammers down on flies. helen douglas wasn't going to -- he beat her by 600,000. if he beat her by 200,000 he would never have had the problem of his career. what is this idea about you've got to stomp any possible opponent? >> i think it's -- >> it's the godfather. >> i think the clinton camp is still burned from 2007-2008. >> you think she could lose to jim webb? >> no. >> but i think it's a signal to every possible contender that we are going to come after you, we are going to be gracious on the surface but we're going to come after you because we learned our lesson from '08. >> but it's also a way to kind of frame this idea of this could be a tough fight when it really wouldn't be. she's battling this image that she thinks she's inevitable, that she is inevitable. >> you first. hostage video. what's the statement there?
>> you know, i don't know what the statement is. i think it was a bit of an awkward video. let's be honest. i think the most interesting part of that story was bill clinton, who said that apparently he very much admires the -- >> let me ask you a -- a potential candidate, she's running, secretary clinton admiring the person who made that comment or is wondering who made it and is mad about is it? >> wondering who made it about it. i think there will be leaks, there will be undisciplined folks affiliated with the clintons who will say things. the person who's the most undisciplined is the former president himself. this is a problem the clinton campaign will have to deal with. they're going to always have undisciplined leaks all the time. >> i love the way you said that. thank you dorian warren of columbia university. nia-malika henderson of the "washington post" and jonathan allen of bloomberg. when we return let me finish with a singular belief that preserving a society involves a lot more than simply holding the line. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. here's some news you may find surprising.
now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. let me finish tonight with the singular belief that preserving a society involves more than simply holding the line. a good society needs to be responsive for those who question whether it is good or not. to survive a democracy needs to answer to the anger of people, especially anger that can no longer be denied. and today there are two paths of anger in america. one is in the streets and directed at police brutality, or authority in fact. indeed at the system of justice itself. and the other path of anger also deep and insistent is at the failure of government to look out for the country itself. to spend loosely and irresponsibly the public's money, to governor too loosely and for too many years with the responsibility of ensuring only
people legally allowed to enter the country actually do so. and one path of anger believes the state is too severe, too brutal in enforcing the law and the will of society, and the other path of anger believes the government has been too weak, too political in meeting the job of its sworn stewardship. neither of these american critics needless to say would think of giving equal credit to the other. those angry on the street today and tonight like any noticeable sympathy for those on the angry right and those on the right tend to show little compassion for the victims of police aggressiveness or worse. but both are real and both paths of anger indeed are experiencing heavy traffic today and a society needs to address both, not let them stew. moving on without dealing with their core concerns is no way to preserve a society. it's a way to weaken it. worse yet, turn it against itself. it could just be that one of the factors, maybe the main one driving the anger on both sides of the political spectrum, is the economic squeeze now, running down hope in so much of
american society. can anyone seriously deny this? and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york, from the streets of new york. i'm chris hayes, shouting eric garner, michael brown, shut it down, shut it down, hundreds of protesters have taken to the streets here in new york city and across the country tonight, one day after a grand jury in staten island declined to indict officer daniel pantaleo for the choking death of eric garner. hundreds thronging downtown new york beginning around 5:30 tonight, now marching through the streets, fanning out, shutting down parts of the west side highway it appears, possibly also the brooklyn bridge. in minneapolis protesters shut down a highway there. in d.c. as well. last night's protests resulted in 83 arrests according to the nypd. and folks here in new york are expecting protests to continue throughout the night.