tv Morning Joe MSNBC December 23, 2014 3:00am-6:01am PST
sing you a song ♪ ♪ i will try not to sing out of tune ♪ ♪ oh, baby good morning, it's tuesday, december 23rd as we open up to the sounds of the great joe cocker who passed away yesterday. with us today we have thomas roberts. unanimous n mark hall brine. steve rattner. and in washington pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. and gene, joe cocker, obviously for several generations meant an awful lot if you were in the early '60s, early '70s, he was a
remarkable singer who broke out at woodstock when he took a beatles song and sang "with a little help from my friends." years later the theme song for "officer and a gentleman." lifted us up. then, of course, gene, for the mark halperins of the world, joe cocker is remembered for one thing and that is singing the theme song to "the wonder years." remarkable voice, remarkable artist. >> i'm a huge fan. he was an iconic singer. i was going to say a great voice but john belushy imitated it pretty well back in the day. he did a great joe cocker. everybody tried to do joe cocker. it was a wonderful voice that, you know, he took that beatles
song and made it so soulful. and, i gather he got a lot of what he did from ray charles and ray charles actually talked about joe cocker and what he had taken from the ray charles style and sort of translated it into, into his own. he really will be missed. >> remarkable. will thomas, take us through the news and first of all, tell us if joe cocker's passing yesterday. >> yeah. joe's legendary career, british singer, born in britain but best known for that iconic performance in woodstock passing away of lung cancer. he covered that beatles song "with a little help from my friends." cocker had many other hits during his 50 year career
including his number one single "up where we belong." he appeared on snl alongsid belushi. remember paul, kevins best friend from "the wonder years." he's an attorney now and wrote joe cocker's voice is the foundation of which the show was something else, something infinitely worse. so many "wonder year" answer out there. new york city hall and police joins for now putting aside their differences out of respect for the two fallen officers murdered over the weekend and it comes after mayor bill de blasio urged the city to allow the grieving families prepare to bury their loved
ones. >> all i can say is this is a time for every new yorker to think about these families. put them first. we can do that by respecting their pain, respecting their time of mourning. i'm asking everyone and this is across spectrum to put aside protests, put aside demonstrations until these funerals are passed. let's focus on these families and what they lost. >> the mayor got into a testy exchange by one reporter who asked the mayor about protests like these where they called for dead cops. >> i talked about this so many times. what are you guys going to do? your going keep dividing us? let's get real. just in that question, 25,000
people marched down one of our streets a few days back. absolutely peaceful. what you managed to do is pull up the few who do not represent the majority. who are saying unacceptable things. who shouldn't be saying those things. i don't see reports on the many decent good people. i don't see reports torchry day cops who do texhe exemplary thi. >> hours before that news conference mayor de blasio visited with the families of both officers paying his respect. we got the police commissioner bill bratton defending the mayor against the criticism. he said it was wrong for officers to turn their backs on the mayor and say this is not the first time a mayor and police unions have clashed.
>> can you point out to me one mayor that has not end battling with the police unions in the last 50 years? name one. name one. so the experience of this mayor in terms of some cops not liking him is nothing new. it's part of life. part of politics. and it is what it is. this is new york city. we voice our concerns and we voice our opinions. >> joe what do you make of the personal plea that the mayor is making for everybody to put politics aside, let the grief of these families and put politics aside before politics of repair moves the city forward. >> i go back to what ray kelly said yesterday. new york is such a difficult city to govern. it's such a difficult city to police. and we've had some incredible leaders over the past 15, 20
years that have done that. new york crime is at record lows. it's been going in that direction for a very long time. you look at the fact that murders are now so low as the "new york times" said a couple of weeks ago, the murder rate is so low that it would have been unimaginable 20 years ago. and so there is a breach and a breach started in the campaign. the police officers thought that bill de blasio fair or not didn't have their backs in the campaign. and it's continued. built gene robinson, regardless of the situation as it is right now that breach does not need to be repaired. new york city is the envy of cities across the country and the world for how they've been able to keep their citizenry relatively safe. >> yeah. >> and they just can't go forward this way.
both sides have good points, both sides will have to figure it out. >> yeah. it will be repaired. we should keep in mind, joe, as you were pointing out, crime today after bill de blasio has been in office for a year is lower than it was at the end of the bloomberg administration. so it continues to go down. obviously something is going right. and, you know, there have been clashes, you know, political clashes. this is a different clash between the mayor and the police unions. but i think this sort of, you know, truce in order to give the families time to grieve and everyone time to grieve is a very good idea and then they can begin to put things back together. there obviously are legitimate concerns on both sides. the protesters have an absolutely legitimate concern,
one understands what the police feel at a time like this. i think feelings are awfully raw at this point. it's bound to get better than it is now. they may not love each other in a couple of weeks but it will certainly be better than it is right now. >> steve rattner. >> just to under score what between said the relationship between police and mayors has been difficult in the past. this time around i want has its own particular challenges and one thing that lies mostly in the mayor's court is whether he's going to embark on a new relationship with the police. his issues with the police, of course, don't simply relate to what's happened over the last week or so they go all the way back to the campaign and a perception by the police rightly or wrongly that he was not their best friend in the government and i do think, if we want to maintain that low crime rate i think it's incumbent on the mayor to have a better relationship with the police. >> don't you think from a
political standpoint and, mark, you can answer this. the pick of bill bratton was a genius one by bill de blasio because he's considered an officer's officer and bill de blasio made that swift move to show he was on the side or at least he wanted to be on the side of the police and repair that political image as he refers to? >> like president obama keeping on bob gates a brilliant idea to send that message. bill bratton is a calming message. he was glued to the mayor's side yesterday. look, the confluence that the city and mayor is dealing with, second hardest job in the country after being president. he's following regionally mike bloomberg, two guys with much different style than he has, much more commanding style. bill de blasio is more peculi pluralistic. and this crisis deals against him the way he wants to deal
things. he wants to reform the way policing works. no doubt having bratton by his side during the crisis and longer term, the mayor cigarette right the city shouldn't be focused on the current tragedy. >> sara eisen, this started a while ago. the battle over stop-and-frisk, you had rudy giuliani, you had mike bloomberg openly criticiz s criticizeing bill de blasio for being anti-cop. doesn't make it easy for the rank-and-file when it comes from leaders they respect. >> from a crisis management perspective this is the defining issue for mayor bill de blasio. it reminds me a little bit of other people who run on progressive campaigns, president obama.
look at the corporate world for inmummerable examples. ron johnson came in from apple as a superstar. comes to run j.c. penney. all these brilliant ideas. he'll throw out all the old ideas. bring in the new. guess what? he totally missed the culture and institution and customer of j.c. penney. there are things likes dealing with the police that are at the forefront offing the mayor of new york city. when you have mayor bill de blasio running as a progressive as president obama does the struggle is maintaining the respect that is there, the institutions that are there and that's sort of what strikes me about this. you see it in the corporate world and in politics all the time. >> that's a great point. ate cultural divide. you just sense it cops always believe that rudy giuliani got it, that mike bloomberg eventually got it and they just don't feel bill de blasio does. gene robinson, let's bring up
some of the things that have been said by rudy giuliani about barack obama and bill de blasio. i've been struck by the stidency of the words. i think it's fair that these people just don't get it when it comes to the culture of being cops. they just don't get it. they don't understand the sacrifice and fear that some of the officers have when they go out and patrol really bad parts of very big cities where their lives are on the line every night. but to take it quite as far as rudy giuliani has taken it has been really surprising for me, a guy for the most part has been on his side on these issues. >> yeah. rudy giuliani has been beyond the pale on this whole thing.
he's essentially accused the president and the mayor and anybody else who has had a kind word to say about the protests of being, of having the officers' blood on their hands. you know, come on. >> what has barack obama said? as far as bill de blasio we discussed this yesterday, after i came out and made a very, very strong statement in support of the police officers and some pretty tough words for some of the protesters. i think cops have been unfairly maligned over the past four or five months. it's been unfair. it's been one sided press coverage. all bill de blasio said is what you and i and a lot of people have been saying for a very, very long time. end it's the truth. >> it's what we've talked about i don't know how many times on
the show. we talked about speaking with his son who is biracial about how to act around the police and how to be careful and to be differential and to really watch it in any interaction with the police. i've had that talk with my kids. i don't know of an african-american parent who hasn't had that talk with his or her sons because it's important. and, you know, it's just fact. and so, you know, fact is fact. >> gene, you would be irresponsible if you hadn't had that talk. >> it would be. >> it's not you saying you hate cops you think cops are racist that's you saying i love my son. you know what? from common knowledge of your life experiences you and so many others know that's the only responsible thing to do.
>> absolutely. it's the only responsible thing to do. and it's not a blanket indictment of all police. you know, it's just fact. it's just truth. it's just what any responsible parent has to say to their son at some point. so, you know, rudy giuliani is way, way out of line on this. you know, it's a good thing he was so inept as a presidential candidate i'll tell you. >> joe? >> okay, thomas. >> mark? mayor de blasio, his approval ratings have gone down a little bit. we'll get new polling numbers today. he lost the "new york post." he's beaten up by conservative bloggers and others. >> did he ever have the "new york post"? >> he lost them in a big way. they beat him up every day. his television coverage in local
news is still pretty good. i think he's in a potential tipping point now if his poll numbers go down he has to change direction. i asked him yesterday at the press conference have you learned anything, have any of the critics gotten through you and you made some mistakes and he basically didn't acknowledge he learned anything or any of the criticism is valid. i think he'll have to either see what these latest round ever polls show and decide he wants to go in a different direction and be more accommodating. calling for the protests to be suspended was an accommodation and he has to decide if he'll govern the city in a broader way or fine where he is right now in hunkering down. he's not anti-police or anti-law enforcement but he sent the signal to some people that he is. >> you know what, thomas, at the end of the day it's all about the bottom line. it's all about the numbers. are people's streets safe?
can kids walk to school? can people bring in relatives to times square without being assaulted, without being abused, without being shot. as long as crime rates are at record lows in new york city, i think bill de blasio will be fine. he obviously, again, has to repair the breach and look at his record and see where he's responsible for repairing that breach but it seems to me the bottom line policing is, are new yorkers safe or not. >> de blasio wants to stay on the vision he was elected for this city. if he wants to be remembered for the legacy of steering the city in a different direction he needs to repair the relationship that has been breached with the police. he has to get on track. but, you know, what we didn't get a chance to talk about, you know whose poll numbers are down, kim jong-un.
his poll numbers are down. >> i saw him at 100% approval. >> i wonder with that came from. >> not the internet. >> still ahead on "morning joe" few westerners know much about the reality of what's going on inside north korea. we'll talk to somebody who does. cia's former division chief analyzing that reclusive regime and talk about how the country went dark and how the internet plug got pulled. the u.s. said no we didn't do it but maybe we did do it. >> they did it. >> they did it? we had the state department spokesperson, she didn't own up to it. really decisive. back in new york the borough president of queens. and michael grimm may be out of congress. you're watching "morning joe"
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all right. we take a look at the morning papers and gavear the 411 on how this works. >> my first time. >> first up, we take a look at the "new york daily news." in a few hours michael grimm is expected to plead guilty to a felony charge of tax evasion. the development was first reported by new york's "daily news" but grimm's lawyer wouldn't comment. a 20 count indictment back in april alleged grimm held more than a million bucks in sales and wages at a restaurant he co-owned. he pleaded not guilty. despite the indictment the former marine and fbi agent was re-elected by a wide margin back in november. congressman grimm could face up
to three years behind bars for tax evasion. >> longer than his term. >> this from "the washington post." i got one four. rolling stone has requested columbia journalism school to review its discredited reporting on an alleged gang rape at the university of virginia. there was a story that was questioned by "the washington post" and a number of other news out lets. columbia officials say they will continue duct a research and interview employees with rolling stone involved with the story. you knew this one was going to come up again. >> tweeted over the weekend in the "the washington post" they should back off. >> not investigate? yeah, right. >> the oklahoman, a federal judge in oklahoma says state can resume executing prisoners. a botched execution called into question the procedure. a judge said oklahoma can use the same protocol moving forward here. rejebbed the claim made by 21
current death row inmates that it was crew aenl unusual punishment. the "wall street journal," investigation into army sergeant bowe bergdahl has moved up the chain of command. a top general will decide if bowe bergdahl should be court martialed for leaving his post in '09 before being captured by the taliban. his release set off a firestorm in may. from the "huffington post" the "huffington post" will relaunch the site in 2015 and its relationship with the associated press. in a letter to employees the founder said the site will develop its own inhouse news service similar to the ap. in addition the company prance to add a newgative team n-crease head count for the reporters. "huffington post" turns ten years old. >> what do you make of that? >> big enterprise to match the ap. >> i remember, you know, at cnn
we had our own internal wires. >> totally worked out. >> we broke away for a little while. >> it should be interesting to see if the "huffington post" can build their own. coming up can bill de blasio unite new york in the wake of the recent cop killing? the magazine that shares the name of the city it confederacy asked that question and we'll dive into that ahead, a deep dive if i can bring more ginger ale because my tummy hurts today.
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♪ welcome back everybody. as promised here with us now contributing editor of "new york" magazine chris smith and mayor of buffalo mayor byron brown. great to have both of you gentlemen here. i want to get what you have written in the magazine for "new york" magazine. you say his wax at woodhull after the murder of officers rafael ramos and wenjian liu was absolutely right that the focus should be on helping. how much of the nypd shares his rage is harder to judge.
it may turn out that pat lynch hasn't recognized how much the city and his own membership has changed but they want to be praised and rewarded not revi d reviled. is lynch's inflammatory comments persuades more rank-and-file that the president has their backs or whether lynch's belie gear reynolds alienates the cops and the public. joe? >> chris, last week you were just writing an article about bill de blasio's battles with the governor of new york, andrew cuomo. now, of course it's a battle with the rank-and-file of cops. extraordinary moment when they turn their backs on him. this guy has had a bit of a rough ride with some warring factions. it's a tough city no matter who the mayor is. right now he seems more embattled than most. >> true. i know you know this. we talk about the cops. 35,000 men and women, not
monolithic in any respect. pat lynch were seizing on these terrible murders to blame it on de blasio having been lenient towards the protesters. there's a separate anger in a lot of the fair minded more mainstream cops that's been building, you know, for a year or more that's somewhat of a hangover from the campaign that de blasio ran. you know, he says he wasn't running an anti-cop campaign, he was anti-the overuse of stop-and-frisk tactics. but that's a very nuanced difficult argument to make. a lot of the cops, because of the campaign, because of other things that have gone on here in the city have felt on the defensive. they felt besieged. they feel de blasio should be the mayor of the whole city, including them. and that he's sided with a very small portion of the city. >> well, chris, you know,
obviously we brought up some of the things that rudy giuliani said also pat lynch over the top but at the same time you're right the rank-and-file cops that i've talked to go back to actually the campaign. and they said it wasn't just a campaign against the stop-and-frisk policy, it was a campaign that suggested that they went out, picked on minorities, were unfair, were bullies, and that he, in fact, he didn't run an anti-cop campaign, he used police officers as a foil and as we've been saying here crime rates are at record lows in new york city and they felt betrayed. i guess that carries over? >> sure it does. the bill commissioner, bill bratton talks about the context, there are contract issues here that are part of the backdrop. but, you know, there was a lot of skepticism among the police
department about de blasio coming in and it goes to a very tricky balance. he's been trying to walk not just with law enforcement but in a lot of issues he's tackled. you're right. it's remarkable that so many of the fundamental, the economy in the city, jobs, you know, employment is up, crime is down, a lot of those things are very, very positive yet de blasio ran a campaign and as mayor has taken on social justice as his primary issue. that's very volatile. you have to be a very deft politician, it's about blame, innocence, racism. you know credit. that's a very hard line to walk and de blasio has had to try to not under mine the cops. he wants them to keep crime down at the same time he's arguing they are part of the problem and need to be reformed. >> mr. mayor, you know the city well, grew up in queens before
heading off to buffalo. how do you balance as mayor needing to empower law enforcement and let them do their jobs along with this distrust that exists in some communities. >> kit be a difficult balance but you have to show respect for law enforcement. they have difficult and dangerous jobs, communities need their police officers to keep the community safe. and at the same time you need to listen to the people and as we've seen here in new york and in buffalo and in communities all across the country protesters are taking to the streets who feel that they have to be heard, who feel that there are deep concerns about policing in their communities all across the country. so we've tried to balance it by showing support for the men and women in law enforcement, but at the same time ensuring that we're listening to people, that we're listening to citizens, and to that end just recently in
buffalo i held a community forum on police community relations with a clergy group in buffalo, the concerned clergy of western new york. over 400 people attended. and the vast majority of those people were looking for constructive solutions and dialogue around these issues. >> so, chris, how does the mayor get back on track? he's asked for a period of calm, obviously, to mourn for the families here, this big loss certainly for the police department and the repair the city needs to go through. who are his allies on the back end of this to you night and come forward stronger and smarter on how to unify the city. >> to de blasio's credit he's talked throughout this period about a support for cops. he's verbally and budgetarily if that's grammatically, the
balance hasn't come through. there's papers and other people with agendas that muddied that message pep needs to go to community groups, to ministers to do simple things. he missed an opportunity when the cops on the brooklyn bridge a couple of weeks ago were injured. you know he could have gone to the hospital. he apparently, you know, tried to reach out to them on phone. he praised them in public. but there are, you know, things that may be in this environment now that are not quite possible. he needs to be consistent. he needs calm. he's asked for a pause in the protest. he'll get a break with this holidays and the weather we think. >> gentlemen thank you so much. chris smith we thank you so much for coming in. we'll look for your latest piece in the "new york" magazine and congratulations on your success in buffalo. you have a zero tolerance policy you enacted up there with law enforcement and community policing is going well four guys. continued success. from nuclear test to cyber
attacks north korea isn't holding back but what's the end game for this country? will it stop at nothing to get at it? the man who led the cia's career unit is joining us next on "morning joe" and boy do we have a lot of questions. the holiday season is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen
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i want to take you office where the big question is was north korea the victim of a cyber attack? the country is partly back online after a major internet outage that lasted for hours. an american firm that monitors internet activity said north korea went off line after instability over the weekend and it was just days earlier president obama warned of a proportional response after the u.s. concluded north korea was behind the massive sony hack. two u.s. officials denied any role but state department would not confirm or deny the u.s. was behind this outage.
look -- >> as the president said we are considering a range of options in response. we aren't going to discuss, you know, publicly operational details about the possible response options. except to say as we implement our responses some will be seen some may not be seen. so i can't confirm those reports but in general that's what the president has spoken to. >> so north korea once again denied being responsible for the sony hack and in a statement said as you but praised whoever is responsible. country criticized president obama hinted that an unspecified attack and china's foreign minister condemned cyber attacks in general but stopped short of singling out north korea. here with us from washington, the cia director for the korean branch. a lot of questions on the back end that we're getting details that north korea and its internet went dark over the weekend. what do you know about the u.s.'s role?
we have the state department giving a, you know, nonstatement there about what the u.s. role was. what's your gut say? >> well, we don't know the u.s. role and the state department spokesperson was being a bit coy as if trying to claim some credit. if it was a cyber attack it wasn't very successful because north korea is back online. of course not a very big internet connectivity between north korea and the outside world. that's reserved for the elite. there's an intranet but very limited to north korean citizens. >> seems the sony hack a lot of business ripples. the chapters in this script continue to write itself. now we're seeing what's happening potential wli this proportional response and maybe a warning shot across the bow. >> a horror film "new york times" called it sony is living through. my question is what is a proportional response given this is a whole new situation for the
united states, cyber warfare, cyber vandalism, whatever you want to call it. how does the u.s. fight this especially coming from north korea where to some it's very surprising the capabilities they've had here with sony. >> right. people who focus on north korea have known for years about this unit 121 as well as other cyber units that north korean military and security services have. this is the largest cyber attack from north korea. they have been linked to previous ones in the past. in the u.s. there's a number of things we can do, particularly on this cyber attack it seems to fulfill the legal requirements for putting north korea on the state sponsor of terrorism list. we took them off in 2008 in an attempt to keep the nuclear negotiations going. that didn't work. there's a lot of other u.s. punitive measures, targeted financial measures we can do. it surprises a lot of people that we've applied stronger sanctions to iran, burma, syria, even zimbabwe than we have to north korea so there are other
measures we can take. >> north koreans have said that if we were to retaliate they would respond with 1,000 more times punishment. what additional abilities to attack us either cyber wise or commercially or other ways? >> that's standard north korean rhetoric. we can't be blase. in 2012 they conducted two armed attacks against south korea. they've done terrorist attacks in the past. no one is expecting a nuclear christmas package from north korea to come through our window this week. but we do have to be vigilante. the biggest threat is continued cyber attacks. what we're seeing now with north korea ratcheting up not only the cyber attack but its rhetoric about this as well as the u.n. security council discussing north korea's crimes against humanity that i think north korea's charm offensive is over.
they have been relatively quiet since last april when they threatened nuclear annihilation against the u.s. and it's allies. they are ratcheting up the tension and the rhetoric. as we go into march and april of next year, at annual combined u.s.-south korean military exercise that's when north korea tends to ratchet up rhetoric even more and moving military units around. >> and gene robinson bruce makes a great point when it comes to north korea drawing attention to it self obviously through something as silly as potentially the film release of "the interview" but to the serious issue of the human rights issues that take place in north korea. >> which are beyond appalling and goric in their nature. bruce, my question is to north korea watchers, is this consensus that kim jong-un is in
materially crazy era or more unstable than his father was as a north korean leader and thus more dangerous or about the same >> there's debate about how strong his control over power s-how stable the regime is. i think he's firmly in control. i think he's gained absolute control of the party, the military and the government. the regime stable. that's not to say it's a good regime. we know a lot less about kim jong-un than his father and grandfather, and we're concerned that perhaps he doesn't understand the concept of red lines. that he may go beyond what his father and grandfather might do. last april when tensions were high there was a great deal of nervousness in washington and seoul because we didn't know how he would respond. would he go ahead with a tactical military attack and it's more likely south korea would retaliate to that. you have a danger of escalation of greater military conflict on
a peninsula. >> i think what everybody wants is the real smoking gun, you know, to really figure out the connective tissue of whether or not north korea was responsible for this. bruce, do you think we'll get that? do you think we'll get the smoking gun proof at some point? >> i think with cyber attacks very rarely can you get a smoking gun. we have the fbi statement. and people are criticizing it. some are not convinced. you know, i know from previous times had the intelligence community would make an assertion there's so much more evidence that can't be shared with public in order to protect sources and methods. >> thanks for being on today. we'll all find out next season on homeland how this all happened. >> maybe we'll see "the interview." sony still wants to release it. >> one way or the other it will be released. >> i want to know how this happened. coming up we finally have the chance to say humanitarian insemination. i said it three times this morning. i have.
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weekend homecoming event when he was seen touching his pregnant wife's stomach. the wife is giving this information about this birth that's due in two weeks. thanks to humanitarian insemination. those brokered by senator patrick leahy and one of his top staffers. last year leahy seen in these photos with alan gross traveled to havana and met with miss perez. his sperm sample was flown to havana and on the second attempt perez got pregnant. the procedure was a closely held secret and hernandez himself was not aware of the success until he arrived home. he described the mood that he feels as being delirious. joe what do you make of that? the humanitarian insemination. >> i think it's too much
information. >> dan is responsible for this. there he is. >> dan this is all on your hands. mark halperin what say you? >> by 9:00 eastern time it will be right up there with conscious uncoupling. >> this takes person to person diplomacy to a new level. >> it's an awesome story, actually, i think. senator leahy has been in cuba before. he was back there in '90s and brought fidel castro famously ben and jerry ice cream. no stranger to diplomacy. >> circle of life. >> he likes batman photography and diplomatic insemination. >> humanitarian insemination. get the hash tag right. >> dan is saying get it right. it won't end up in wikipedia
unless you get it right. straight ahead you didn't need to wait until christmas who made santa's naughty and nice list. and the reason why this list is made up. police are taking extra cautions in all five boroughs of new york city after two officers were shot and murdered. we'll talk to the president of the queens borough when "morning joe" comes back. green lights yo? no. it's called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable.
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our condolences to the officer's family. this is a difficult time for both of our families. but we will stand together and get through this together. >> obviously sad, tragic footage. a follow up to saturday's assassination of two new york city police officers and obviously trail of tears left behind this holiday season. welcome back to "morning joe." we got thomas roberts, mark halperin, steve rattner and sara eisen and gene robinson all still with us and joining the conversation in nashville, pulitzer prize winning historian john mecham and on set new york's queens borough president. let's start with the news.
new york city hall and the police unions are putting aside their differences out of respect for the two police officers murdered over the weekend. mayor de blasio asked the city to let the families prepare to bury their loved ones. >> all i can say is this is a time for every new yorker to think about these families, focus on these families. put them first. we can do that by respecting their pain, respecting their time of mourning. i'm asking everyone and this is across spectrum to put aside protests, put aside demonstrations, until these funerals are past. let's focus just on these families and what they have lost. >> mayor de blasio also during that press conference got into a testy exchange with one reporter who asked about protests such as these where demonstrators used
racist language and called for quote dead cops. >> we've talked about this so many times i'm going talk about it again. now the question is what your guys going to do? your going to keep dividing us? i'm not talking about every single one of you. let's get real. just in that question, 25,000 people marched down one of our streets a few days back. absolutely peaceful. what you managed to do is pull up the few who do not represent the majority. who are saying unacceptable things. who shouldn't be saying those things. i don't see reports on the many decent good people. i don't see reports on the everyday cops who do the exemplary thing and hold the line and show the discipline -- i'm telling you over again -- i'm telling you again that's how you want to portray the world but we know a different reality. >> you know, mark, or steve
rattner, that response and of course last hour we were saying at least i was saying that bill de blasio wasn't responsible for quote the blood of cops on his hands. but that response suggests a singular view of those protests. he says mostly peaceful but even at the time in real-time police officers, union members very concerned about the chance comparing the nypd to the kkk and that was -- i read that right after the mostly peaceful marches from "new york" magazine. not some right-wing outlet. and, of course, those chants that we showed, people calling for dead cops that wasn't limited to one side street. there was some pretty significant parts of those protests that were ugly and i think personally it would help if bill de blasio didn't paint those protests as being peaceful
and loving because that's just showing one side of the story as well. and makes cops think he doesn't get how much pressure they are under. >> he was trying to paint the protesters as being one side of the story. he was trying to blame the press which is a true and tried tactic for politicians who find themselves in an awkward position. and all this is in the context of mayor de blasio's attitude towards the police as having been perceived since the beginning of his campaign as somewhat hostile to them rightly or wrongly. and the last piece of context for those of us who are native new yorkers you have to go back to 250e7s and nobody is suggesting we're going back there right now but 250e7s was the low point for us when you had over 40 cops killed in the '70s, another 40 cops killed in the '80ss, some assassinated just like these corps. crowds yelling things similar or worse than what was yelled in the past few weeks and this
would naturally send the chill down the spine of every policeman in new york plus the rest of us who want the stoi stay safe. >> melinda we can go back and think what happened in the '70s and '80s, i remember the late '80s early '90s being the absolute worse after i left the city on a business visit in 1991. i remember seeing the city in my rear view mirror and saying i will never go there again. it was just dismal. five years later i was forced to come back to new york and i looked around and i couldn't believe transformation. that didn't happen by accident. and sometimes i think bill de blasio and some of his supporters think it did. it required some tough choices made by police officers. >> of course. there's always tough choices. and by the way, those tough courthouses are being faced right again today. the very corner stone of our democracy is based on open protests and based on
demonstrations and public speech. i think that's what the mayor has been trying to get across. at the end of the day yes you're right we don't ever want to go back to lawlessness or any times like that. but you can't shut down protests and you can't say any violence that's a result of open discussion then we should just hijack the entire discussion. that's not fair either. very reason that you come back and the very reason that folks move to the city of new york where there's 130 languages spoken right here in the city, most of them in my district in queens, is because of the open discussion. we make it work every single day. >> right. you got to have -- no doubt about it you need to have the open discussion, the protests in new york were so much better, obviously, and an example for a lot of people after ferguson. let me ask you, though, you talk about -- you talk about new york city and all the different languages spoken and all the different cultures here.
i've long said that new york is a modern wonder of the world when it comes to governing. i can't believe how effective this city has been run through good and bad times over the past 20 years. but what happens now? how do we bridge the gap between the police and the mayor's office? because it obviously has to be done. this is too complicated of a city to have those two factions warring against each other. >> the way you bridge the gap is to do exactly what i think all sides are now calling for which is simply an to end the rhetoric and the extremists on both sides right now. we lost two police officers. they had families. they were husbands. one had children. the other had family that is coming to america in order to bury their son. i went to several vigils last night in new york city. there's several more tonight in remembrance of these heroes that gave their lives and we need to respect that. the way to respect that is not
to shut down communication, to shut down open discussion of the issues that are real in the united states of america and across the united states. the way to do that is honor their memory, allow the families bury them right now. the city is hurting. but this city is a tough city and we stand together when it's the right thing to do and right now we need to give time for the families to bury their dead. we have so many languages spoken here in the city of new york and i get folks from all over the world, by the way, from different country who come to queens to see how we make it work. the city has to move forward and the city has to heal. >> when we look at what queens are doing. you are having a vigil tonight. john mecham when we look at what's taking place in new york city this is a problem we can look at whether it's in the suburbs of missouri or something that's taking place in new york city. and as joe pointed out, the context of policing has changed
over the years, certainly in this city. has history shows us, where do you think community policing play as role as we look at moving forward? not just in big cities but also in suburban places? mike ferguson? >> well, to me one of the interesting things about the new york story right now is yes there are 130 languages, yes it's a vast city, one of the aggravate citi great cities of the world. but the neighborhoods are close. you feel in new york, i think, in some ways more than you would in some other major cities around the country this kind of tragedy. and these kinds of tensions. it's why new york mayors loom so large in the life of the nation. whether it's laguardia or rudy
giuliani or bloomberg. and i think that leadership at the very top is critical, to go to your question, community policing. police officers are putting their lives on the line every hour, every minute. and i think that as they go about this the idea that there's any tension, that there's any distance between them and their political leadership is devastating. and i think if you look at the various cases around the country you'll see that episodes where there have been enduring crises have been ones where there's been some distinction between the police force and the leadership and the towns themselves. so the critical thing is how do you re-establish those bonds of trust. >> i know your partner is from "the guardian" angels. you have two kids together. i know as a kid growing up i had fire trucks, cop cars, you know, we all believed in our
relationships as kids with those trusted individuals. the onus is always on the police because we trust them. they take an honor, they take an oath, we give them a gun. when we see images that don't line up and we have this conversation about excessive force and then we know the judicial process may not have worked out on the back end in an eric garner-style situation then we have a person with mental health issues thats wants to t to utilize that now in brooklyn. how do we get back to the real conversation of making sure that we have a structure within our police force that the trusted individuals we can have that faith restored, that trust remains unbroken? >> i think first way to do it is not to ignore the conversation. you can't ignore a conversation simply because you don't like reality it. and open discussion works well in the city. we've had these protest, we've had folks laying down and doing
die ins but had the police talking having that reality. i think every parent should have a discussion with their child, especially teenage child about the police department and about how we trust them and how to act if they are approached by a police department individual. i think those are important discussions to have. it's important to make sure discussions we have in the past are not derailed. the murder of these cops was done by a lone assassin who came to new york city to kill police officers who was arrested 19 times. he shot his girlfriend. he came here for that. there's a larger discussion happening in the united states of america and that's all about relations between communities and police officers and by the way one does not preclude the other. you can be extremely supportive to the police department. you can go all the vigils and respect the police department while still having the reality of open relationships throughout communities and police. i think the administration, the
mayor is absolutely right. right now is the time for the city to heal. you heard what the gentleman before me said. cities are one neighborhood. it is one community. one thing we can all agree on in the city no matter where you're from in the world is that all lives matter. and that we need to go back and say look no death of any individual is acceptable. and the city of new york will not accept it. that's part of what we do and part of our open discussion and i think that's the great thing about the city. >> since the garage are grand jury come back with no indictment that's mayor made any mistakes? >> i think coming in and having the discussion as quick as possible is a good thing. i think sitting down with the union reps and set upping down with the communities is the right way to go. i think there's always things that happen if you second guess yourself. when you're in the middle it and the leader of a great city like new york and 8 million people and you have this -- these protests that happen, happen across the united states, it's what the foundation of america
was made from. it's the reason why i have the right to vote. it's the reason we have civil rights legislation. >> was that a yes or a no? >> i think second guessing an administration is always an issue. i think that nothing is ever perfect. i think we're here today, though, and taking a step back and say look we'll take a step back, the union reps need to calm it down, the protesters, we believe and i believe, by the way, need to stop until we pay homage to our dead officers and let the city heal and move forward. as far as the protests go and open conversation and open political debate, i think it's absolutely the right thing to do. and the by the way -- >> okay. melinda, if i can interject you said about five times that you support the right to protest and a conversation. nobody here is denying that. we all support protests. we all were for the most part complimentary what happened in new york after the protests after the eric garner case. there's no debate about that. but is it not the fact that the
police officers in new york city and across america feel besieged because there has been a conversation over the past four or five months and it's a conversation that police officers in new york city, police officers that you represent, police officers in st. louis, police officers coast to coast believe that conversation has been one sided. we heard a lot of talk about what police officers do wrong. we've heard a lot of suggestions that they are racists who go into neighborhoods trying to find young black known shoot but we haven't heard a lot from cops. >> i think the conversation is actually happening and after decades of the conversation not happening about relationships between communities it's happening. >> right now there's a problem with police officers, that police officers have their back up and police officers are upset. they are upset because they believe this conversation has been one side. it has been unfair. and it is unfairly stereotyped all police officers. >> emotions are understandably --
>> do you understand the new york city cop feeling that way. >> of course. look, i understand emotions are high. i unz they lost -- they didn't just lose two officers the entire city lost two officers and emotions are high on both sides. >> the question is do you understand the frustration of new york city police officers and police officers across united states of america about this conversation that you say needs to be had, and the fact that it seemed awfully one sided over the past four months. >> i tuned frustration on all sides and that includes police. by the way, with the idea of open discussion comes with the idea of listening to our police officers and if they are feeling frustration and expressing it it's the city's obligation to respond to that. i think the mayor is trying to do that. i think right now in the process of healing it's a difficult conversation to have. but whether or not the frustration is greater on one side or the other at the end of the day this conversation can happen after -- >> what are police officers telling you what do you hear
from your police officer constituent? >> you know, it's amazing that you say that. i went out to several communities last night and we did vigils for the police officers that died. we also paid homage to the folks that protect us on the streets every single day and they were standing side-by-side with us. what we're hearing look we work with the communities every day and they do in so many communities throughout the united states. the relationships are actually good relationships. i do think that gets lost in the conversation. but at the vigils the police officers that were standing side-by-side with the communities. we have volunteers, police precinct councils and i believe there's a city wide across new york and across the country effort to work with the police department and tore the police department network with communities. >> what are they telling you. what your hearing from your constituents. the police officers what are they telling you >> i was hearing they were thankful that folks came out to pay tribute to them. they are frustrated because the
conversation is sometimes one sided. and you don't hear about the investments of over hundreds of millions of dollars that the administration made into the police department for body cams to protect constituents and perps but the police department. you don't hear about the support rallies that happen out there every single day about the police department. you don't hear about those things. that's a frustrating aspect of it. right now i believe when we're out in the communities police are talking to me and talking to the communities about the relationships that we have. and a lot of them are extremely strong. >> you have to agree that by and large the police force in new york is frustrated what they see as a lack of support from the mayor. that's just a fact, right? >> i believe that -- i believe that only a few leaders don't speak for the entire city of new york. >> do you think most of the police officers in new york think mayor de blasio is doing a great job of being supportive of the police department? >> i'm not in their minds.
i do know what i see out there. what i see out there are police doing their job every single day. i see cops working hand-in-hand with the communities in which they are sworn to protect. and they do their job and they do it great. and the problem with rhetoric and the problem with extremists on all sides is that sometimes that is all you hear. i think that's a problem not only in the city of new york but across the nation. >> but, melinda, we're not talk being about the inflammatory things that were said about bill de blasio which we disagree with. he doesn't hatch blood on his hands. we're talking about the rank-and-file, rank-and-file cops that do their jobs that have benton force 10, 15, 20 years. they feel like the mayor has a cultural disconnect with the nypd. >> the rank-and-file that i see in my communities are out there doing what they do. and the frustration afterwards, after we bury the two officers we lost is going to have to
continue in this conversation. and the mayor does have a responsibility to sit down with the rank and tile of the police department the ones that have been serving for 10, 15, 20, 30 years and talk to them about how this city can be as supportive as we possibly can to the police department. i think he's trying to do that. i think that the extremists on all sides and by the way this is how it is with every single issue that's controversial that extremists on both sides are the only ones being heard. i went to several vigils last night and again more tonight. we won't have huge camera, print media, folks won't know there are hundreds of constituents and folks in the precinct standing there holding candles and supporting their local police department. you'll never hear about that. >> melinda thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate it. john mecham very quickly before we go i mentioned yesterday how there does seem to be a cultural divide the type we saw in the
1960s where you were either john wayne's side or jane fonda's side. we got past that. we got past this cultural warfare that grew out of the 1960s. but it seems over the past three or four months we revisited it where you're either on the side of believing that law enforcement for the most part does a good job and keeps you safe or that they are predators who go through neighborhoods and trying to push around and bully the weak. >> yeah. that's a very good analogy. i think maybe as in the previous example 30 years ago, 40 years ago now there's a silent majority and the silent majority are probably more pro police and will try to assert themselves here. i think that there is, you know, when you get caught in the
howling mob of both sides, nuance is the first casualty. but i think police officers rightly want to believe that their leadership is behind them as they go out in the neighborhoods and folks in the neighborhoods rightly want to believe that the police are there to protect the law-abiding. right now there's a fundamental breakdown. what we saw in new york in the late '80s to the '90s of rebuilding to a large extent a sense of order with some price, obviously, is probably going to have to happen again but won't what happen this leadership as steve was saying. >> john, we'll ask you to stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe" why the price of medical test cigarette like the absurd mark ups for booze in the hotel mini bar. is it that extreme? we'll explain the connection ahead. but first, he's back -- >> i'm sorry, operator, i can't
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♪ now we take another look at the morning papers. "the washington post" pope francis back in the headlines after turning the traditional christmas reading to vatican leaders into a public and scathing critique. he listed 15 aislements that polygamy the bureaucrat including spiritual alzheimer's. he said they fer get to be
joyous men of god. some view themselves lords of manor superior to everyone and everything and recognize the pathology of power. and warned against the terrorism of gossip. >> he said he came in to reform things. . >> truth fore. >> what a speech. from emergencies nbc.com nicaruga started a china-backed canal. many have expressed concerns over the project. the canal could give china access to central america which has been dominated by the u.s. >> the "los angeles times" a new study says reading devices
before going to bed can shift your internal clock. test subjects who read from ereaders had suppressed levels of melatonin. scientists believe light emitted from these devices makes it harder to rest. i say duh, did not require a study for that. >> didn't we say that about television. >> variety reporting here that a brand new pe wee herman movie is heading straight to netflix release. the new movie set to begin filming in 2015 and will problem duced by judd apatow. no word yet on what the plot will be. pee we herman fans. >> seattle family is getting attention after pose forge a
christmas photo with santa for the last 60 years. the family has gone to take photos since 1955. the photo has expanded to include the four wilson children, spouse, kids and parents. there's only been one year that all four kids were not present. i wonder how many santas that included. >> nice family tradition. >> looks like different san as. coming up you know who has a busy year overseas when iran's nuclear program was one of the lesser covered stories. and why the group one direction is on tlits. stay with us. we'll be right back. ♪ story of my life ♪ take a hold ♪ i'll drive all night to keep the world intact ♪
welcome back, everybody. here with us now with a look at the biggest global stories of 2014, foreign affairs correspondent and retired senior british officer, great to have you here. so a lot of great dialogue happening in the commercial picks some of which we're going to bring to air. some of which we are going to
bring to year. some of which is lost in the control room. let's get into the biggest global story of 2014 and forecast 2015. at the top you have syria. and political and humanitarian effects because the ripple effects of the refugees from syria that's a crisis certainly for so many countries on its border. >> yeah. i think what's happened with syria has taken a lot of people by surprise. you know, specifically the intelligence community in the u.s. and the way isis has metastasized. what we under estimated is how assad's actions and his brutality would galvanize so many different militant groups and the militant group obviously floated to the surface and pulled all those jihadists in is isis and that's taken the world by surprise not just the influence within syria but also the region and the ability of this lone wolf threat that we've
seen to influence people who are u.s. citizens, who are european citizens, who are uk citizens. >> if you were setting out for power at this time next year whut say? >> that's a great question and leads notice the segue to russia. it's the oil that will shape the geopolitical landscape. russia has to divest its economy. heavily invested in oil and gas. the other big thing other big industry that makes russia money is the arms trade. it will have to sell more arms. already sells arms to assad and syria and sells arms to iran. so it's going to galvanize, strengthen that relationship between syria-iran and russia and that's what i think is going to actually give assad empowerment when it comes to longevity. >> so he'll still be in power?
>> at this time in 2015 i think assad will be yes. >> a lot of these countries tonalist and isis in the middle east, iran, russia, oil is that a theme that ties it together and then tremendous drop in prices that we've seen has crippled these economies and these regimes. so what does that mean for isis which came to come to nature the headlines in 2014 in 2015? >> yeah. we shouldn't forget china as well. establishing those bonds that trade relationship between russia and china, i think, is going to be empowered as well. that's something else we can talk about. but in terms ofcy, i'm working on this piece at a moment. is its own worst enemy in terms of brutality. what it's done is missing this opportunity to galvanize all of those people that are completely opposed to what assad is doing and it's taking its ideology to a level where that gal vanization doesn't have any endurance because people like
being opposed to assad. they get involved with the ideology and then realize the what it wants and then want to leave. hundred of foreigners came and then wanted to leave and were executed by isis because they wanted to leave. >> so let's talk about somebody, some people who do have longevity which is china. very controversial as to whether they will still continue to be the economic juggernaut they have been or collapse under their own weight. what's your view about china's prospects for the next year? >> china, it centers around its economy. there were reports about how china's gdp had overtaken america's gdp. but it's based on purchasing power the cost of living in china and it's equated to the cost living in the u.s. and therefore it put china's gdp at
something just under 18 trillion which was just over u.s.'s gdp. so i think that's an interesting piece. i think china has an invert demographic in the last 20 years which allows it to have one child and one child only. if you look at how the middle class is expanding that requires middle class job. requires doctors jobs, surgeon jobs, industry jobs, engineering jobs. i think china is breeding for that requirement as we move forward. >> doesn't that have growth rates to rely on that growth. >> exactly. so, again, a lot of the geopolitical landscape will be driven by the economy in 2015 when it comes to china. china's defense is, its defense budget is expanding. just over 100 billion. we know they are expanding the navy. when we look at the u.s. defense budget 585 billion it's still
less than 20%. >> gene robinson is here as well. as we look at the list outside of china connective tissue is this thread between oil and isis. >> right. and the real question is really interesting to me because the drop in oil prices has a big effect on this country as well. it becomes less and less profitable for the companies that rely on fracking to pump that oil in the united states. so are we going to see a decline in the oil boom in the united states, and does that then become an international factor, you know -- right now we're having this boom that gives us leverage with the saudis, gives us leverage with the russians. it becomes uneconomical for us to pump that oil we have less of that leverage. how do you see that playing out?
>> yeah. i think we must not forget opec in all of this. opec historically has acted as a swing provider in terms of demand versus supply. it's now quite clearly through its main henchman saudi arabia said we're no longer going that swing provider. we'll basically, you know, it costs something like $3 a barrel to weeks tract oil from the ground in saudi arabia and then know they can drive the oil prices lower and lower. as you rightly say to compete with the oil production, the fracking coming out of the u.s., driving manufacturers out of industry. >> you're already seeing that. they are cutting spending for next year. >> we studied very hard for this list. provide us our dessert. your bonus for the year and the upcoming year. >> i'm not afraid to say harry stiles. >> harry stiles. >> one direction. although there was a bit of conversation before the break on taylor swift.
that's a great point as well. >> when you talk about world domination i would choose taylor over harry but the two are linked. >> why are we showing zane and not harry stiles? i don't think our control room knows who harry is. >> they don't know who harry stiles is. >> i know the difference. that's liam. >> harry doesn't have the ability -- >> haven't gotten to harry. >> one direction bigger than the beatles? bigger than oasis. bigger than blur >> there's harry. >> there's harry. >> he's a handsome boy. >> bigger than oasis. >> i'm happy to come on and talk about russia -- >> do you put them tonalist. >> you put me tonalist beatles versus one direction? >> don't answer. stop right there. >> gene robinson, thank you. up next spent over $700 each. no wonder why stores want those
>> so that was a scene from the 2003 film "love actually." it's likely a night mayor if you're one of the last minute christmas shoppers out there. here to help procrastina torch rs. mark happen aspirin specifically -- >> i buy everything by arbor day. >> through amazon. >> delivered by drone. >> two of five us. one of them is you. late shoppers make up 42% of the american population but they spend 57% of all the dollars in the final three weeks of the year. it's one of the rest of us. >> is that because we think we'll get a better deal. >> part is the deal, part is procrastination. >> you'll pay more when you're desperate. you pay more when you leave
everything to the last minute in a need the gifts. >> that's not what the data says overall. >> that's what i say. >> look at the table we just had up. $1148 is what they spend over the holiday season. 770 in the final three weeks. twice as much as what everybody spend. but the total dollars they spend the late shoppers spend about $100 less because some of the really good stuff you can't get anywhere. >> that's true. >> they are not necessarily getting bargains they may be buying less. >> they are buying stuff that they want and buying alternative back up gifts. >> no merchant would discounts anything until december 26th because you have the shopper on the hooks >> you're buying fewer gifts and spending more per gift but spend less money in total. 1150 compared to 1250 for people who start early. >> what about online shopping? there is a finite date after
which so i'm told -- >> today it's over. >> they have been pushing the limits and that puts people like u.p.s. and fedex in a pinch they are the ones that have to get it there. >> we've seen that year in and year out the season has been getting longer. starting earlier and earlier and going later and later. people today on the 23rd look to see can they get something at the last second. >> can they get it on time delivered where they need to get it. john meacham, what books would you recommend? >> i think there's a lot of nonfiction out there that america needs. at least inadvertent fiction. i do have a question. what is the gift card market share? not that have issues this afternoon. have to end up buying those. is there any growth in that market now? >> gift cards are huge. you'll appreciate this network. they are huge in the market but
if you look at the kind of people who buy gift cards it's an interesting niche. they are older, more female, socially liberated republican voting crowd. there's all this data -- >> very specific. >> different type of card. they have this and can analyze the type of people buy gift cards. way they feel on social issues, more women -- >> what's the most popular gift cards. >> i don't know in particular. >> don't you have data. >> gift cards are going up in percent of total sales. >> we're getting lazy. we don't want to figure out what people want. >> i don't see i want as laziness. i see it as libertarianism. >> people are more on to the down side of gift cards. they come with very carefully constructed fees and special clauses. and so if you don't use the gift card the value decreases every month and there's a lot of --
but they are valuable. >> it's plausible. >> specialist clause? >> rockefeller republicans are the future of gift cards. >> bringing out the puns. >> i bought one yesterday and i can't reveal who it is for. >> who has shopping left to do at this table. >> i do. >> i'm done as of yesterday at 5:00. >> as of yesterday at 5:00. that's not bad. >> if you just tell people you're not getting involved this christmas bunk then you don't -- sneezier said than done. >> this christmas bunk. you just don't do it. >> who have you told you're not getting sflofld >> everybody. >> steve rattner. >> i'm telling everybody now. >> it's got be an all or nothing. >> that's the future data point. people who get nothing for anybody and that's -- >> an all coal christmas. thanks so much.
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football? >> yeah. this is my time to shine. we begin with the bengal ls hosting the broncos on monday night. last night is proof there's a first time for everything. manning finished this game with a career high four interceptions. three of them thrown in the fourth quarter. ouch. including a touchdown that sealed the victory for the bengal ls. now cincinnati is locked in a playoff spot. miami beach bowl between byu and memphis. the tigers quarterback racked up seven touchdowns in the game. four through the air, and then three that he ran in himself. but it still took them two overtime periods to beat the cougars finally 54-48. it's not the game that got the attention. after the final whistle blew these teams hadn't had enough. a brawl breaking out between the
two sides. punches are thrown. blood is drawn. and everybody is on the field here. coaches, referees, trying to get this thing under control. but a big melee there at the end. you thought they would have gotten their frustration out on the field. but no. >> i didn't see the blood. >> no. i heard about it. but i didn't see it. >> can we show mark the blood? he hasn't seen enough blood. is there any way we can get that back up? no. where is the blood? circle the blood. >> number 12. >> see. there. that's it. >> oh, there is blood. thank you. very nice. very festive. >> okay. no more. people are eating breakfast. still ahead, we're going to talk more about what's taking place in new york city. we have the deaths of the two nypd officers. mayor bill de blasio at odds with the new york police department.
yesterday he had tough words for the media. his heated exchange for one reporter. that's ahead and much more. ♪ the most amazing thing about the ford fusion isn't the way it looks. ♪ the most amazing thing? is the way it sees. ♪ with blind spot technology, a lane-keeping system and a standard rearview camera, the fusion is ready for whatever comes your way. ♪ go prepared. go further. ♪ i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because it gives me... zero heartburn! prilosec otc. the number 1 doctor-recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 9 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn.
i will try not to sing out of key ♪ ♪ >> good morning, it's tuesday, december 23rd, as we open up with the sounds of the great joe cocker who passed away yesterday. with us this morning, thomas roberts, the managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halprin, steve ratner. sarah eisen and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. and gene, joe cocker obviously for several generations meant an awful lot in the '60s or early '70s. he was a remarkable singer who really broke out at woodstock when he took a beatles song and
sang "little help from our friends." about 15 years later, you know, it's a theme song in officer and a gentleman that became a huge hit and across the world. lift us up where we belong. and of course, gene, for the mark halprins of the world who fell in love with winnie cooper, joe cocker is remembered for one thing, and that's singing the theme song of "the wonder years." >> i'm a huge fan. he was an iconic singer. and i was going to say inemtable voice, but if you recall, john beluschi imitated it pretty well on "saturday night live" back in the day. he did a great joe cocker. everybody tried to do joe cocker. it was actually a wonderful voice that, you know, he took that beatles song and made it so, so soulful.
and i gather he got a lot of what he did from ray charles, and ray charles actually talked about joe cocker and what -- what he had taken from the ray charles style and sort of translated into -- into his own. it was -- he will really be missed. >> remarkable. thomas, why don't you take us through the news and first of all, tell us of joe cocker's passing yesterday. >> yeah, joe was a pretty legendary career that we have here. this british singer. born, you know, in britain, but perhaps known for that iconic performance we just saw the pictures of in woodstock. passing away of lung cancer. he covered that beatles song with a little help from my friends. yesterday paul mccartney and ringo starr praised his talents. he even appeared on snl, as we
heard you guys talking about there, alongside john beluschi, who often spoofed the wild onstage movements. he was 70 years old. joe, i was just looking over twitter at the feeds of the stars. from the wonder years. remember paul? kevin's best friend. >> of course. >> he wrote, his real name is josh. he's an attorney now. he wrote joe cocker's voice was the foundation of the wonder years, without which the show was something else, something inf infinitely worse. so many wonder years fans connect automatically his voice with that show. he will be missed. we get to other big news today. it's new york city hall and the police unions are for now putting aside differences out of respect for the two fallen officers murdered over the weekend. it comes after mayor bill de blasio urged the city to let the grieving families prepare to bury their loved ones. >> all i can say is this is a
time for every new yorker to think about these families. focus on these families. put them first. we can do that by respecting their pain, and respecting their time of mourning. i'm asking everyone and this is across the spectrum, to put aside protests, put aside demonstrations until these funerals are passed. let's focus just on these families and what they have lost. >> so getting a personal plea right there. . the mayor did get into a testy exchange with one reporter who asked about protests such as these when demonstrators talkeded about cops. >> i'm not going to talk about it again. what are you guys going to do? are you going to keep dividing us? let's get real. just in that question. 25,000 people marched down one of our streets a few days back
absolutely peaceful. what you managed to do was pull up the few who do not represent the majority, who are saying unacceptable things. who shouldn't say those things. i don't see reports on the good people. i don't see reports on the every day cops who do the exemplary thing and hold the line and show restraint and discipline. you know what, i am telling you over again. i am telling you over again, that's how you want to portray the world. we foe a different reality. >> mayor de blasio visiteded with the families of both officers. meanwhile, we have police commissioner bill bratton out defending the mayor against criticism from the police unions. he says it was wrong for officers to turn their backs on the mayor and say this is not the first time a mayor and police unions have clashed. >> can you point out to me one mayor that has not been battling
with the police unions in the last 50 years? name one. name one. so the experience of this man in terms of some cops not liking him, there's nothing new. it's part of life. it's part of politics. and it is what it is. this is new york city. we've voiced our concerns and our opinions. >> so joe, what do you make of the personal plea that the mayor is making for everybody to put politics aside. let the grief of these families be the priority right now and let them make the plans that they need to put the families first. >> i go back to what ray kelly said yesterday. i think he's so right. new york is such a difficult city to govern. it's such a difficult city to police. and we've had some incredible leaders over the past 15, 20 years that have done that.
it's been going that direction for a long time. you look at the fact that murders are so low. as "the new york times" said a couple weeks ago. the murder rate is so low it would have been unimaginable 20 years ago, and so, there is a breach. a breach started in the campaign. they fought bill de blasio, fair or not, didn't have their backs in the campaign. and it's continued. but gene robinson, regardless of the situation, as it is right now, that breach does need to this be repaired. new york city is the envy of cities across the country and the world for how they've been able to keep their citizenry relatively safe. and they just can't go forward this way. both sides have good points. both sides are going to have to
figure it out. >> yeah, and it will be repaired. we should keep in mind, joe, crime today after bill de blasio has been in office for a year, is lower than it was at the end of the bloomberg administration. so, it continue continues to go down. obviously something is going right. and you know, there have been clashes, you know, political clashes. this is a somewhat different clash between a mayor and the police unions. but i think this sort of truce in order to give the families time to grieve and everyone time to grieve is a very good idea. and then they can begin to put things back together. they're obviously legitimate concerns on both sides. the protesters have an absolutely legitimate concern. understands what the police feel
in a time like this. and i think feelings are raw at this point. it's bound to get better than it is now. they may not love each other in a couple of weeks. but it will certainly be better than it is right now. >> just to underscore what gene said, the relationship between the police and mayors has been difficult in the past. this time around it has its own particular challenges. and i think one thing that lies mostly in the mayor's court is whether he is going to embark on a new relationship with the police. his issues with the police, of course, don't simply relate to what's happened over the last week or so. it goes all the way back to the campaign and a perception by the police, rightly or wrongly, that he was not their best friend in the government. and i do think, if we want to maintain the low crime rate, i think it's incumbent on the mayor to have a better relationship with the police. >> mark, you can answer this. the pick of bill bratton was a
genius one by bill de blasio because he's considered an officer's officer. and bill de blasio made the swift move to show he was on the side, or at least he wanted to be on the side of police and maybe repair that political image. >> like president item on bill gates. he's a huge calming presence. he's glued to the mayor's side. at all the public events the mayor did. speaking to families and at a police event and then the press conference. the conflicts the city and mayor are dealing with now, it's the second hardest job in the country after being president. he's following rudy giuliani and mike bloomberg, two guys with a much different style than he has, a much more commanding style. bill de blasio is much more pluralistic and this crisis is playing against his ability to deal with things the way he would like to deal with them in a longer range way. there's no doubt. there's no doubt having bratton by his side during the crisis
and longer term. the mayor is right. the city shouldn't just dpfocusn the current strategy. no doubt bratton is his partner in a big way. >> and sarah eisen, this started back in the campaign. a battle over stop and frisk. >> sure. >> you had ray kelly. you had rudy giuliani. you had mike bloomberg openly criticizing bill de blasio for -- for being, as they've said this past week, anti-cop. certainly giuliani said that. that certainly doesn't make it easier to deal with the police unions when you have this coming from leaders that they all respect so much. >> no question. and from a crisis management perspective, this is going to be the defining issue for mayor de blasio. it sort of reminds me a little bit of other people who run on progressive campaigns. president obama. you can look at the corporate world for innumerable examples of this. ron johnson was a great example. he came in from apple as a
superstar. comes to run jcpennejcpenney. all these brilliant ideas. he's going to throw out the old ideas, bring in the new, and he totally missed the culture and the the institution and the customer of jcpenney. and there are things like dealing with the police at the forefront of being the mayor of new york city. when you have mayor de blasio running as a progressive, as president obama did, does, the struggle is maintaining the respect that is there. the institutions that are there, and that's sort of what strikes me about this. you see it in the corporate world and in politics all the time. >> boy. that's a great point. it's a cultural divide. you sense it. cops believe that rudy giuliani got it. mike bloomberg eventually got it. and they don't feel like bill de blasio does. gene robinson, let's bring up -- let's bring up some of the things that have been said by
rudy giuliani about barack obama and bill de blasio. i've been struck by the stridency of those words. it's been okay to say, as sarah said, which i think is very fair, that these people just don't get it when it comes to the culture of being cops. they don't get it. they don't understand the sacrifice and fear that some of the officers have when they go out on patrol. really bad parts of very big cities where their lives are on the line every night. but to take it as far as rudy giuliani is taking it, it has been really surprising for me, a guy that for the most part has been on his side on these issues. >> yeah, rudy giuliani has been beyond the pale on this whole thing. he's essentially accused the president and the mayor and
anybody else who has -- p who has had a kind word to say about the protests of being -- of having, you know, the officer's blood on their hands. yo know, come on. >> what has barack obama said? and as far as bill de blasio, we discussd this yesterday after i made a very, very strong statement in support of the police officers and pretty tough words for some of the protesters. i think cops have been unfairly maligned over the past four or five months. it's been unfair. it's been one-sided press coverage. all bill de blasio said is what you and i and a lot of people have been saying for a very, very long time. it is the truth. >> yeah, it's what we've talked about i don't know how many times on this show. we talked about speaking with his son, who is biracial, about
how to act around police and to be careful and differential and to really watch it in any interaction with the police. i've had that talk with my kids. i don't know of an african-american parent who hasn't had that talk with his or her sons because it's important and it's fact. and fact is fact. >> you would be irresponsible if you hadn't had that talk. >> it absolutely would be. >> and that's not you saying that you hate cops and you think cops are racist. that's you saying i love my son. and you know what, from common knowledge of your life's experiences. you and so many others note, that's the only responsible thing to do. >> absolutely. it is the only responsible thing to do.
it's not a blanket indictment of all police. you know, it's just fact. it's just truth and it's what any responsible parent has to say to their son at some point. so you know, giuliani is way, way, way out of line on this. it's a good thing he was so inept as a candidate, i'll tell you. >> mayor de blasio, his approval rating has gone down. we'll get new polling numbers and see where he stands. he's lost the new york post. he's beaten out by conservative bloggers and others. a lot of his friends don't like him. they beat him up every dayment his television coverage in local news, which is where most people in new york and elsewhere get their news is still pretty good. i think he's in a potential tipping poetip ing point now. if his poll numbers go down, he has to change direction.
i asked have you learned anything have you made any mistakes? he basically didn't acknowledge that he's learned anything or any of the criticism is valid. so i think he's going to have to either see what these latest rounds of polls show, and decide he wants to go in a different direction and be more accommodating. calling for the protests was an accommodation. and he's going to have to decide if he's going to govern the city in a broader way or he's fine where he is right now and hunkerring down. he's not anti-police. he's not anti-law enforcement. but he sent the signal to some people that he is. >> still ahead on "morning joe." rolling stone is heading back to school. we're going to explain the development in that story. plus hospitals and doctors love to order ultra sounds of the heart. it's painless test with no side effects. that is unless you're the one paying for it. take a cloiser look at the numbers. we have the soaring cost of health care and the big business of medical bills.
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all right, we're going to take a look at the morning papers. michael grimm is expected to plead guilty to a felon charge of tax evasion. the development was first reported by new york's daily news, but grimm's lawyer would not comment at that point. a 20-count indictment back in april alleged grimm hid more than a million bucks in sales
and wages at a restaurant that he coowned. he promised to fight the charges tooth and nail. despite the indictment, the former marine was reelected by a wide margin back in november. congressman grimm could face up to three years behind bars for tax evasion. >> that's longer than his term, three years. >> all right. we'll see what happens. >> this from the "washington post." i've got one for you gentlemen. rolling stone asked columbia journalism school to review discredited reporting on an alleged gang rape at the university of virginia. magazine publisheded a story in november by reporter sabrina ruben that no long after was questioned by the "washington post" and a number of other news outlets. they said they'll conduct research and interview rolling stone employees involved with the story. there's no set due date for the release of the findings. you knew this one would woman up again. >> she tweeted over the weekend they should back off. >> not investigate. yeah. right.
a federal judge says oklahoma can continue executing prisoners. a u.s. district judge said this week oklahoma can use the same protocol moving forward. rejected the claim made by 21 current death row inmates that it's cruel and unusual punishment. >> the wall street journal investigation. bergdahl just moved up the chain of command. his fate rests with a top general who will decide if he should be court-martialed for leaving his post in afghanistan in '09 before being captured by the taliban. his release in exchange for five taliban prisoners set off a firestorm in may, with critics accusing him of going awol. and the huffington post will relaunch the site in 2015 and end its relationship with the associated press. >> big deal. zblch it is a big deal. in addition t company plans to
add a new investigative team, increase headcount, huffington post turns 10 years old. coming up, according to politico, john boehner has been nice and elizabeth warren is on the the naughtily list. the cheat sheet for santa. why there may be a lot of coal in the stockings this year and some of the reasons why may surprise you. more in a moment.
x. hi, everybody. p welcome back to "morning joe." we have leigh gallagher back with us. joining the table now, fresh from the train, cnbc's brian sullivan. and in washington, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, and we want to turn to the question that most people have been asking all morning. who has been naughty and nice in poll titics for 2014? take a look at this. we have former speech writer for george w. bush asking and answering that question for politico magazine and he joins us now. matt, it's great to have you with us. this is not your usual suspects you have written about in the magazine. at least when you're putting them on the list.
>> no. and the challenge always with doing a naughty and nice list in washington is one side of the list is longer than others. i found people for both sides actually this time. >> all right. so we like having a nice balanced list. so when we break apart, we want to start with the naughty part or nice part? >> naughty. >> why don't we start on nice and end on naughty? >> we are talking about washington. >> all right. we're going to go with naughty. we figure it's late enough in the morning. >> we need some spice. let's break it down for us. what was the tactic here? >> basically you figured out who has done a good job for their side or their brand and who hasn't. and so it's a high list all put
togethe all right. so you have john boehner. >> halprin is on the naughty list. >> i found an interesting pair on the naughty list. >> anyone advising hillary. why would you say this? why naughty? steve is going to be very upset with this. >> all right. yeah. so whether you like hillary clinton or not, her p.r. this year has been pretty bad. she had a book that came out that did not sell up toed theun choices "hard choices." and filled it with platitudes so safe and boring they made queen elizabeth look like a reckless loud mouth. i think everyone advising
hillary clinton needs to look for a new p.r. job. >> the next one, you have the obama administration i.t. department. so obviously this is a dig athealthcare.gov. >> these are peoples who could not find e-mails when they were needed. they couldn't put together a website. the website was so bad it may have cost democrats control of the congress. these are the awkward mom who just joins facebook and can't figure out how to turn the caps lock key off. i think they should be looking for a new job. north korea is better at i. tichlt than the united states of america is. >> that is not a nice thing to say by the way. you're on the naughty list. it's brian sullivan. a lot of people may not know the name chris hughes. he's a billionaire cofounder of facebook.
mass quits. they said his biggest accomplishment was being mark zuckerberg's roommate. >> i think it's fair. >> he's got a little scowl. >> it's fair. new owner of the new republic? >> i would put him on the naughty list. but also all the editors who quit in mass and wrote very personal scathing attacks on him. as i said, i wouldn't give them all lumps of coal, but i'm afraid they would set his house on fire. >> but then you put buzzfeed on the nice list. >> right. >> everybody in media now wants to be another buzzfeed. so it's a compliment to them. but it also shows the unofficial rule of washington, which is, you know, steal somebody else's ideas and put less competent people in charge of it. >> so as far as i can tell,
everybody on your naughty list is a democrat or friend of a democrat. how does it all end up being democrats? >> well, actually i have a lot of republicans on the naughty list, too. if you want to make a naughty list in washington, you run out of paper. elizabeth warren because she's doing everything hillary clinton should be doing running for president. she's bakely saying she's not going to run. she's running as the principle left against the obama administration. ch and she's getting people excited for her candidacy. and mrs. clinton, her poll ratings are going up now. she's more interesting as an idea than a candidate. when she's out of the public eye she does better than when she's campaigning. >> i want to bring in michael steele. she's been sitting by waiting to get involved. i think it's about time. because leading the nice list, you'll be happy to know, michael steele, john boehner. >> yeah. >> this is cool. and the naughty list is
comprised mainly of democrats. at least the ones we make graphics for. >> that sounds like a tech problem, which goes back to the nausy list. i think there's some upside to that. i think there's real opportunities for, you know, how the leadership, dollarly boehner navigated the water this is year. and did so in a way in which he was able to keep that hard right base ne check, get through the election process, in a successful way. set up the senate, i think, for mitch mcconnell. so yeah, i think that's a good pick right there. >> matt, you said hillary clinton's p.r. adviser had a tough year. her top p.r. adviser is nice. william jefferson clinton. why is he nice this year? >> that's a democrat i put on the nice list. i have to give president clinton
a lot of credit. he's gone almost 365 days without a major scandal for his wife's campaign. he's been very disciplined, dignified. l he's doing a great job. >> major nonscandal. >> 2015 is coming. don't you worry. >> why is the head of sony on your nice list? >> and why is north korea not on the list? >> they are on the list. you just don't know about it. >> that's right. >> the reason i put her on the list is because, you know, those of you who saw argo. it's about a fake film created to distract the terrorists from letting hostages free. i was thinking, you know, wouldn't it be fascinating if 30 years from now you can find out the crazy silly film by james franco and seth rogan was a plan to divert north korea's attention. if you start distracting with silly ideas of hollywood, they'll be busy there for decades and not blowing up the
world. it would be a brilliant intelligence operation. >> our favorite on the nice list is we have a video sound effect from this favorite person. take a listen. >> in raleigh, north carolina. >> hey, somebody from down south. >> well, you're right i'm from down south. >> oh god, it's mom. >> and i'm your mother. and i disagree all families are like ours. i know many families fighting at thanksgiving. >> is this really your mother? >> that is my mop. >> i was very good that this thanksgiving was a year that you two were soezed po go to your in-laws. and i'm hoping you'll have some of this out of your system when you come here for christmas. >> this was not planned. she called in on the normal line. since you did call in, mrs. woodhouse, what's it like to raise these two boys? >> caller: well, it hadn't been
easy. i hope that they just kind of get this out of their system today on your program. >> hadn't been easy. we love joy woodhouse. >> who doesn't? it's basically everybody's mom in america who wants to do that. in my family we have democrats and republicans, too. we kind of want joy woodhouse to come to washington and knock some heads together and solve our budget problems. >> we're going to get a call in the morning. >> thank you, sir. we appreciate it. >> thank you. nice list. nice list. merry christmas to you, too. we're going to ask you to stay with us. why the same heart exam can triple in price depending on where you get the test done. the odd map of medical testing is straight ahead.
"the new york times" livy rosenthal is joining now with her new series, paying until it hurts. she writes in part, it's become what liquor is to the hospitality industry. a profit center with large and often ash trash markups. from a medical perspective, bloodworks, tests and scans are tools to help them diagnose disease. from pa business perspective, they are opportunities to bring in revenue. the it's great to have you with us. what a burping process this has been for you. 18 months, this series. congratulations on bringing it to a close. zblf thank you. we're heading to the hoech stretch. >> what has been the biggest revelation to you as you
dedicate sod much time and research to pulling this off? >> just how much more we spend on everything than everyone else in the world and the huge variation in prices. we see this in our bills when we open them. that was my mission to find out why. frankly i thought i would fingd more health care rhyme and reason about it. i found a system where all the the parts are codependent and basically work together to drive up price. and i also saw in my 18 months of visiting patients, how much people are suffering from this. even the patients with the good insurance. it's just a huge burden. i heard from so many americans that this is now is the largest single expense for my family beyond housing, food, clothing. >> so what's the the best example? what was the most shocking? when you talk about having good insurance, i mean, a lot of us
take for granted having good insurance. most of us aren't knowledgeable about what we have and have access to. >> well, i have a very high bar for shocking right now. i really, really high bar. i think the single most shocking example was a guy who had back surgery who wasn't insured who got a bill for $117,000 from the assistant surgeon. not the main surgeon who he had negotiated a price with. but the assistant surgeon who he had never met who are came into the operating room unbeknownst to him. it wasn't clear it was necessary for that procedure. $117,000. and when the patient, peter, who is a wonderful guy said i shouldn't have to pay that, i never even met the guy. didn't know i was going to be there, his nurk said okay, we're going to pay it if r you. they wrote the surgeon a check for $117,000. so they are not good stewards of our health care dollars.
all of the people in his company are paying for that $117,000. >> you go to your gp. they say you need tests. so they recommend you go see a specialist. should consumers ask the specialist, what are you going to charge me. if they say more than you think it should be, ask for another recommendation? find a specialist on your own? >> well, that's the prop right now. we're bombarding everyone with you have to be a god consumer of your health care. but we don't give them the information to do that, right? the guy with the back surgery, as he was being rolled into the operating room was given a piece of paper to sign saying we regret to inform you that your insurer doesn't cover neurological monitoring during neurosurgery. okay. i'll do without the monitor? it's not a real choice. i think what we all have to ask up front for from our physicians and what i hope physicians and hospitals will step up to the plate is giving us prices.
i want my dr. to know that x facility charges $500. and "y" facility three blocks away charges $5,000. as we saw in the last piece, the prices are that variable. t. >> why don't we have that? we have calorie counts on menu ls. yef, i have no idea what an x-ray rocosts. i have no idea. >> it could be either. i think one of the statistics from the last piece about heart scans is in philadelphia you can get the same scan for a price range between $700 and i think $12,000. >> and the price is coming down. like most of technology. the prices of these devices have plummeted in many cases, but yet the charges have not. so why is that? is there just margin grabbing here? >> yeah, the pricing is completely arbitrary. a hospital or provider decideses what it wants its income to be
and then you look around. a lot of stuff is fixed. tests, you can charge whatever you wan for them. that's not true in other countries. not just in socialized medicine. other countries with fee for service medicines say this is what you can charge. i was shocked by the prices of this country. it can be as high as $12,000. when i called japan, germany, belgium to say what is the price? i was expecting a thousand maybe. it was between $80 and $125. >> michael, that is shocking when we think about where we compare and contrast with other nations similar to ourselves. lydia has done her homework on this. it was fascinating. >> i'm sitting here listening. i'm getting a comparison in my head to other things that we do in life where you have the sort of sticker shock. so how do consumers really seriously battle back? i mean, you talk to your doctor. can i get what the price is.
but we are in an era where you've got like gas prices. gas is $2.50. you go four miles down the road it's $3.49. is it location? sh what is driving these prices is it that arp trar and how do we control that as consumers? >> it is that arbitrary, and that's the problem. there are tools that can help consumers. there are sites like healthcare bluebook that will estimate in your area what is a reasonable charge. but that often isn't a good metric. the price of a gallbladder operation in nassau county in long island is much, much higher, like five or six times higher than over the border in queens. maybe you're just in a high price hot spot, as the patient in my last article was.
in central new jersey, the price of health care is really expensive. you ask why. well, you say they built a lot of fancy new hospitals. there are a lot of well-insureded patients there. but the machines they're using are the same in pretty much every hospital. >> the the affordable care act works as intended, will this help? and if so how? >> in a very indirect way the affordable care act tries to bundle payments so you're not given incentive for doing each last thing sochlt in the long-term that will help. in the short term, it's not clear. they want to give people insurance. the primary motivation wasn't to control costs. so we're going to have to address that differently. >> thank you for all your hard work on this. read her piece in "the new york times." we'll be back with more right after this. >> thank you. she inspires you.
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christmas special for us, correct? >> yes. >> it's a mix of the christmas song with a little have yourself a merry little christmas, from my native oklahoma friend that wrote the song with judy garland. >> oh, i love it. >> you've been doing this so long. it can't before get old for you, bringing so much happiness to people. >> i love people. i'm at the belaj owe full time. i love playing these pianos. we're going to watch build one after we leave here. >> love you, too. ♪ ♪
good tuesday morning. i'm craig melvin in for jose diaz-balart. we start with the nightmare before christmas. snow, rain, thunderstorms and winds are all planning to disrupt travel plans for million of holiday goers at the airport and on the roads as well. gabe gutierrez is at the world's busiest airport for us down in atlanta. gabe is on the effect. how bad are we going to get here? what are we talking about? >> well, the worst of this is going to be tomorrow. this is a big system. wednesday the travel troubles are mainly from the great lakes off to