tv Morning Joe MSNBC January 8, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PST
because of the senseless violence of a few. >> good morning. it is thursday january 8th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have david igoumenitsaig ignatius. >> obviously, mika -- >> every front page. >> not only in this country, across europe across the world all telling the absolutely terrible terrible events that unfolded yesterday morning in paris. >> look at this. >> here's the "financial times." "usa today" -- i tell you what a picture that symbolized in a great way the protest last night a cold chilly night in paris.
not afraid. and, of course the local tabloids, no mercy, the "daily news" right before the horrific moment we saw online and then showed you. but, mika it continues. there was a lot of information last night, some of it correct, some of it not correct. let's get everybody up to date with the very latest including, unfortunately, another death this morning of a police officer in pa rice. >> we're following that breaking news. it's in the suburb of a paris after the "charlie hebdo" attack. nbc confirmed a police officer was shot and seriously wounded while investigating a traffic accident. now there are reports, other reports saying that officer is dead. a street sweeper was also shot. the shooter was wearing dark clothes and was not wearing a mask. he ran away on foot and at this
hour still at large. however, officials say there's no known link to yesterday's terror attack and warned people against jumping to conclusions. having said that france is in a national day of mourning for the 12 people killed at "charlie hebdo" as the manhunt is under way for a pair of french brothers considered armed and dangerous. the front page of "usa today" sums up the response. je suis charlie, translation, i am charlie. right now these are the two men police are doing all they can to find cha arrive and said kouachi. cherif may have ties to al qaeda. he was convicted 7008 of helping funnel militant fighters to iraq and spent 18 months in prison. and at this hour police say several others are in custody including an 18-year-old who surrendered after he was named as a possible suspect. a staff meeting was under way
when the carnage began just about 23 hours ago. masked men with assault weapons called out specific names of staff members first targeting the editor. one said they thought the gunmen were part of an anti-terrorism squad. this video shows two armed men casually exiting the building just before they shot that wounded police officer point blank in the head. officials say the suspects car jacked a vehicle after their initial getaway car crashed. eight journalists and two police officers are among those dead. 11 people also wounded. four in serious condition. the magazine frequently faced threats for its depiction of islam and was fire bombed in 2011. the paper's last tweet before the attack was a political cartoon of the leader of isis.
get a sense of the background as we were pieces this together. terrorist groups are reaching across borders to incite and recruit others with their own propaganda. here's richard engel with his report the. we're waiting for richard's report which is just being filed right now. but as we piece together what happened a sense of the perspective given yesterday's massacre in paris. here's richard's report. [ gunshot ] >> reporter: dressed in black, masked determined cradling their weapons the gunmen look like seasoned veterans who stepped right off the battlefield of iraq syria or yemen or at the very least mimicking the propaganda videos to a tee. isis places a great value on propaganda. not just as advertising but to turn their supporters into deadly weapons. both groups publish slick competing online magazines in
english. both have been telling would be recruits not to come to the front lines in the middle east any more but to stay at home and attack civilian targets. al qaeda's branch in yemen the same group that killed an american reporter last month specifically marked the editor of "charlie hebdo" for death in 2013. his magazine has infurirated islamic militants and some moderates for resistanting anti-islamic material repeatedly. they said they would make the magazine pay for it. on the hit list other critics of islamic including sal ron rashdi. there has been a spate of recent attacks. the gunman in kentucky, the man with an axe in new york. the attack on a cafe in sidney
all inspired authorities say, by islamic militants to take matters into their own hands. >> the more innocents who are killed in these attacks the great terrify impetus for others to carry out similar attacks. >> reporter: this time a magazine that radicals thought was an affront to their intolerant ideology. the pace seems to be picking up. problems worse in france. let's take a closer look at the role of france's muslim population and just the situation that's going on there. according to npr france has the largest muslim population in europe. the estimates range between 5 million and 6.5 million. that represents at least 8% of the french population. if you take the conservative estimate, by comparison the number of muslims in america is at 3 million or 1% of america's
population. recent survey shows 74% of french citizens view islam as intolerant and incompatible with french values. 70% said too many foreigners were in the country. while no official data is available to estimate exactly how many inmates or of what makeup, estimates say half of all inmates in france are muslims, that of course some terror experts say make them easy prey for jihadists. in january of 2013 more than 1,000 cars and trucks were torched across france in a single day by government counts more than 40,000 cars are burned every year. officials stopped publishing the number because it was encouraging competition between rival gangs of muslim youth. last year there were several tweets translated about al qaeda and included the hash tag paris burning and paris is a
battlefield. david ignatius we've known for over a decade there's a strain in france and many people in france oppose large groups of muslims coming in. it looks like it boiled over yesterday. and this may be the beginning of a very long battle internally politically and, unfortunately, as we saw militarily at times. >> this is a severe problem for france because of the size of the muslim population is so large. 5 to 6 million. and because the tensions of the very secular french mainstream society and very religious largely north african french muslim population are so sharp and "charlie hebdo," the magazine had become a focal point for that. this is a long running problem. just a few things joe, that i
learned in my conversations with people over the last 24 hours. first, i was told last night by a u.s. official that there is some evidence of contact between the kouachi brothers and french algerians, one in particular who had been trained long term by al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, al qaeda affiliate in yemen behind so many terrorist attacks. this attack did not have the hall marks of an aqap attack. those are usually meticulously prepared suicide bombing. this was a running shooting gun battle. but i'm told there's evidence of that aqap link that authorities are looking at. for french people today, one question will be why were there internal security authorities their fbi known as the dst not more attentive to these kouachi
brothers, in particular cherif kouachi who was arrested held in jail wanting to join to the jihad, wanting to go to iraq in 2005 '06, '07. why was there not a better surveillance of him and his activities. how did he get with his brothers. ak-47s to blow in the door of a place that was supposed to be guarded and do such carnage. >> guarded and on the al qaeda hit list. they would have to be seen as one of the most likely targets. michael sheehan what's your takeaway of what's happened in the past 24 hours. this is not a typical al qaeda hit. >> joe, last time i was here with you, after the australian killings we talked about that being a tragic one off event. this is more strategic. this is targeting the media that attacks or criticizes islamic
radicalism and also if this other attack is associated this killing in the streets associated with this attack on charlie we have the beginnings of a strategic attack by al qaeda or its associates on france. so this is ratcheting up the level of attacks to a degree that we've not seen in many years. >> france's terror alert is at its highest level. there's extra security at transportation hubs and at places of worship. french president francois hollande called those killed or wounded in the terror attacks heroes who were killed in an act of exceptional barbarism. he urged the country to stand together. president obama called his french counterpart to offer condolences and strongly condemned the gruesome attack on journalists as did secretary of state john kerry. >> the fact that this was an
attack an journalists, attack on our free press, also under scores these terrorists fear freedom of speech freedom of the press. those who carry out senseless attacks against civilians, ultimately they will be found and we stand with the people of france. >> they may wield weapons but we in france and the united states share a commitment to those who wield something more powerful not just a pen, but a pen that represents an instrument of freedom not fear. free expression and a free press are core values. they are universal values principles that can be attacked but never eradicated because brave and decent people around the world will not give in to the intimidation and terror to
those seek to destroy those values employ. >> let's talk about the attacks. let's talk about the magazine. obviously this magazine was not only provocative as you know towards muslims, very provocative towards christians in fact a cartoon a couple of weeks ago mocking jesus on the cross. a lot of things, a lot of things people would find deeply offensive. >> yesterday i was reading some of the commentary about nag. one issue is some people viewed the commentary by that magazine as hate speech. they felt it was extremely inflammatory. that does not justify what happened yesterday. but they were not ridiculing a single religion they did it
across the board. but they mocked in a way religious icons across the board. it's not that they were going after islamic radicals so islamic radicals went after them. that's an important point to make because you're offending and mocking entire religious mocking us then widen the base at which people can be offended and carry out these attacks and i think that's what we saw yesterday. these individuals were born in paris that's the assessment. that also goes back to the point david was making about why this home grown terrorism is the biggest threat now that many of these countries are facing both in europe and including elsewhere. >> and david ignatius you look what happened in paris and the debate in sweden where you actually have the swedish people going to vote and trying to cut dramatically immigration into their country and then political
leaders coming together and saying we're going to ignore the will of the people and we're going to continue fairly aggressive immigration levels. it seems to me that this is a moment not just for the people of france who have been debating this for quite some time this is now a moment for all of europe to figure out exactly what their immigration policies are going to be going forward. and when they decide they are going to have to cut immigration back significantly and i suspect that's going to determined within a lot of local and state elections coming up. >> joe, i think you put it exactly right. a very delicate moment for europe. you had before this terrible attack with 12 dead rising nationalism, angry nationalism in france where people are saying we've been too open to immigrants, they are take our jobs, destabilizing our way of
life. you've had push back in france in belgium, in the netherlands, in sweden as you say. the danger is as these populations react angrily to what they perceive as a home grown terrorist threat in their midst the authorities will do things to crack down on those muslim populations that drive a much sharper wedge between the native born traditional european populations and new muslim arrivals. i fear that's precisely what the jihadists would like to see. they want to drive that wedge. they like to see a polarization a battle between the muslims and secular europeans. the authorities have to be careful they don't make this situation more polarized. i'm told immediately after this attack the french authorities were in every muslim community, working their sources, talking
to people turning over rocks looking for evidence and the questions whether you do that in a way that the community perceives as friendly or whether you do it in a way that's seen as insulting and further polarizing. >> all right. before we go to break we want to look at some of the people confirmed by nbc news as among those lost. as we mentioned earlier the gunman targeted is stephane charbonnier. he was in charge of the paper since 2012 and said he was not phased by possible threats. he was once quoted saying i don't have kids i don't hatch a wife, no car no, credit. it may seem pompous but i rather die standing than living on any knees. jean cabot was a french cartoonist. the 76-year-old had his first drawings published when he was just 15 years old. another victim french economist
and author bernard maris. he was 68 years old. 80-year-old george wolinski was killed. he drew cartoons in the 1960s and known for his takes on politics and sexuality. his wife wrote a memoir. one other victim a 49-year-old, one of the police officers killed in the attack leaves behind a young daughter. according to french media he was a member of the special protection service and part of charb's protection team. we'll have more on that ahead and many different angles. coming up on "morning joe" we'll be following the developments in paris as closely as officials are hunting down the remaining two at large gunmen. general michael hayden joins us to discuss the link to other
terrorist organizations. bill bratton meats with nypd union bosses. and a story that's gone under the radar a bit an explosion outside an naacp office and the question this morning is whether that is a case of domestic terrorism. those details straight ahead on "morning joe." so,as my personal financial psychic, i'm sure you know what this meeting is about. yes, a raise. i'm letting you go. i knew that. you see, this is my amerivest managed... balances. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold. quarters. quarters...yup. then amerivest gives me back their advisory... stocks. fees. fees. fees for those quarters. yeah. so, i'm confident i'm in good hands. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.
welcome back. we take a look at the morning papers for you today and a lot to talk about especially as mika went to break, talking about the naacp story. >> right. >> what's happening with that whether or not this is domestic terrorism. >> right. no doubt about it. the "usa today" actually the fbi is investigating an explosion outside of an naacp office in colorado. it was a case of domestic terrorism. that's the question. officials say the home made pipe bomb detonated outside of a barber shop in colorado springs and gasoline canister placed next to the device didn't explode. no injuries and the damage was minimal. officials haven't named any suspects but looking for a potential person of interest. >> we'll go "the dallas morning news." new details emerging about the tuesday shooting at a va clinic in el paso texas that left one doctor and the gunman dead.
the psychologist killed in the attack had filed a complaint against the alleged killer in the past. an army veteran who had worked at the clinic in 2013 as a desk clerk reportedly made a verbal threat to the doctor in a grocery store last year. police say he killed the doctor tuesday with a handgun before taking his own life. the complaint is the only connection they found between. >> from the "new york daily news" a second meeting between bill bratton and the head of the city's five police unions has filed to the end feud between the nypd and city hall. union leaders don't criticize mayor bill de blasio who was not in attendance and a source said somebody other than bratton warned consequences would come if arrest numbers continue to be on the decline. some accused police of engaging in a slow down as the rift
between place and mayor continues. arrests were down 56% and ticketing down 92%. >> we can park wherever we want? >> that's right. >> this is a real problem. >> go where you want. >> i like it. >> the daily beast the gates foundation released a video of former microsoft ceo bill gates drinking water processed from human waste. >> i heard about rich people like that. >> the bill unanimous philanthropist is working to bringing clean drinking water to the world. it's a machine developed in seattle that turns sewage into clean drinking water and electric power. this is amazing. in his blog -- >> a survivalist. >> he said the water tasted as
good as any bottled water. >> other than tasting like crap. >> joe, stop. this is good what he's doing. it's amazing. you should support it. in fact i would like to us do a taste test here on the show. let's get some of that water here alex. will you coordinate that? we'll have joe drink a gallon. >> i don't know. >> are you dehydrated. >> yes. so can we do that this week? thomas, next paper. you're drinking that. you're drinking that. just saying that. that was wrong. >> the "los angeles times", the california department of health is investigating nine cases of the measles which so far have links to disneyland. victims of the cases reported in california and utah visited the disney theme parks in anaheim last month. a guest at the park may have had the illness and exposed other visitors. those who believe they have been exposed have been advised to go ahead and see their doctors, get
checked out as a precaution. but happiest place on earth -- >> no. >> going to get the measles. >> don't talk to me about disney world. >> you want to talk about drinking your own -- >> no. >> like our j.d.salinger but can't go -- >> no. people walking around. it doesn't make any sense. >> yeah. >> what would mickey mouse do? >> the san diego union tribune, you may have heard about snakes on a plane but how about snakes in a drain. a business owner in san diego was shocked to find a 5 1/2 foot long boa constricter staring her down as she tried to unclog an overflowing toilet in her bathroom. the woman ran out of the room locked the door shut and called for help.
when an motorcycle control arrived they found the snake coiled behind the toilet. that's scary. >> you need to know your neighbors. >> know your neighbors. >> know what kind of pets they have. >> that's a look at the papers. coming up is the attack in paris part of a larger terror threat? general michael hayden joins us next right here on "morning joe."
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>> sure joe. we've seen this come forge a long time. this has been predictable that these rather relatively low level attack not mass casualty attacks against iconic targets are the way al qaeda and affiliates would be coming against us in the future. this is near the high end, more like say the attacks in mumbai or the attacks in the shopping mall in kenya. but in those cases, the attacks were random and suicidal. this was well-planned and well targeted. that makes it particularly freightening. >> what you fear is possible drive by shootings in little rock or an suv in times square. >> right. those were lower end not very competent self-radicalized inspired, not overly trained. these guys look pretty competent. they were very comfortable with their weapons and very comfortable in their own skins as they carried out this atrocity. >> that's what the "wall street journal" said signs of planning
and assault raise fears. you look at the video, certainly outside, and then you saw they didn't run like maniacs towards the car, they were told calculated ruthless and certainly that does that does raise a suspect terrify of a different type of terrorist, doesn't it? >> it does. these guys were veterans. appears to me based on the video they killed before so they probably had combat experience. yemen, iraq syria, somewhere recently. >> what can we make from the weapons they were using? >> generally available the weapons of choice of jihadists, the ak-47 pretty easy to use, pretty easy to maintain certainly effective. >> how easy is it to get in paris? >> the french are tough, joe. dgsc dst are very good security organizations. they have a lot more freedom under french law than we do under american law.
all that said the amount of traffic between north africa and metropolitan france i don't think that would have been particularly difficult to do and after all, after the fall of gadhafi, libya has become the arms depot of jihadism globally. >> david ignatius is with us in washington and has a question for you. >> general hayden i wanted to ask you whether you think the effect of these attacks own the french reaction will be to sicken other french muslims who regard this outrageous or radicalize them further. which way do you think that will go? >> david, frankly i think it will break both ways but your comments earlier were spot on i think. if the french government handles this well if the french government goes into those arab quarters and talks to islamic leaders about protecting their youth, that their youth are the targets of these radical organizations, if they go in with that kind of an attitude
this could break into a more positive direction because an awful lot of french islamics are really outraged at what happened here. >> ayman mohyeldin is here. >> general hayden i want to get a sense of going forward. what's the solution to this problem now that we're seeing this explosion of attacks, whether they be lone wolf's in sidney or random acts here and there. there's a growing trend. what's the systematic approach to doing the right thing here in trying to end this for once and for all. >> let me be a little dark. there are no solutions. this is a condition. now we can manage the condition better. we can make these attacks somewhat less likely. somewhat lesley that will. but without changing the characters of our societies, we can't make them go away all together. let me add another thought here too. you know i was talking to you guys about 12 months ago about these masses amounts of data
that nsa held in storage. that meta data doesn't look that scary this morning and i wouldn't be surprised if the french services pick up cell phones associated with the attack and ask the americans where have you seen these phones active globally? so, we're going to have to don't struggle with that balance between keeping ourselves safe and keeping our privacy protected. >> thomas. >> general, based off of ayman's question with the sidney siege and big difference of what we've seen happening in paris what does that say to you about what can be forecast internationally and what an international coalition of people that is working together to exchange crucial information should be looking for. >> in terms of fighting from our snide correct. >> how to deal with it? yeah. information exchange is very very important. again, i don't mean to beat a
dead horse here but that suffered in the past six, the 12 and 18 months because of the snowden revelations. we hope cooperation between like-minded democracy get a boost from yesterday's dangers and go forward in a more cooperative fashion. >> general michael hayden thank you very much. always great to have you on the shop. appreciate your insight. up next the former editor for the daily beast joins us live from paris. stay with us.
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live in paris. christopher you've been covering this since the story broke. we talked to almost at the same time yesterday. what's the reaction now in paris to this shooting overnight on the heels of everything that happened yesterday? >> yeah. i think people are very disturbed and worried by that even though the police have said they don't know or see any link at the moment they don't know if it's terrorism related. the idea that two police people two police women were shot down in the south of the city early this morning certainly is the kind of thing that's put people on edge and i just drove across town and i can tell you there are police on practically every corner in the major thoroughfares, rerouting traffic, sirens going on. there's a sense of urgency if not emergency all over the city. >> david ignatius is with us in washington. david, do you have a question? >> i want to ask my friend chris
dickey who knows france and the french security situation as well as anybody, chris, do you think that the french are having success in penetrating these muslim communities, getting information and staying on top of this problem or are you seeing more polarization in france between the muslim population and the government? >> well i think both things are true. i think the intelligence services have been very successful over time in penetrating these, even these small groups. i think that's one reason we've seen relatively little terrorism in france in recent years. one thing that people forget when we're talking about muslims in france is that there are a lot of muslims and arabs in the police force and intelligence services. they understand the culture, they can pen trapt it very well. but if we're talking about police on the streets, cops on the beat there's a lot of
hostility. you've been out to the housing projects outside of the major cities and when you go out there you see that there are whole zones that the police can't going. that's been a long standing problem and still exists. so i think both of the things you asked about happened. >> chris, do you think there will be a political reaction among french people who have been voting for these far right parties supporting tougher measures and a crackdown? >> oh, absolutely. i think that in terms of the overall society the risks of a real cleavage between muslims and the rest of the culture here is considerable. already there have been explosive devices, fake grenades shots fired and thrown at mosques at three different mosques in france over the last 24 hours. that certainly will raise tensions as well. you have a situation where this idea of freedom of speech which
was so important, is so important and which is obviously under assault in the "charlie hebdo" shooting is also an idea that's used by the extreme right to condemn muslims. if you look at germany, look at the netherlands the right-wing politicians there come out again and again and say we hate muslims because they are so intolerant. we're intolerant of intolerance and that's one of the things that's thrown into this mix. >> jeffrey goldberg writes this in the atlantic. europe is under siege. the european parliament complex in brussels where i happen to be sitting at the moment is meant to be a monument to post world war iii energy allies of tolerance, free speech and openness all of these notions seem to be under attack at once and what is striking to me is
that not many people until a few hours ago understand that this is under attack. 9/11 represents the purist expression of islamic rage at specific western idea capitalism. in that case. but satire and the right to blasphime. >> david ignatius obviously this is something that was being fought out in the catholic church centuries ago when artists and play wrights and anyone criticizing the church or criticizing the pope would face harsh sentences. and yet the renaissance in the west were those who had courage to stand up to the catholic church. >> tropical system a tradition in france as much as anywhere i
know that there's a right to ridicule. that part of freedom is the freedom to say outrageous things. "charlie hebdo" did. you said earlier, joe, that they mocked jesus on the cross. they mocked jews. when charles de gaulle was as close to a modern political saint as france has died they mocked him back in the 1970s. so they embody this tradition. and it's clear that that idea the reverence is fundamentally intentioned with very very reverent conservative mums. you see the same tensions in the u.s. between secular and very free publications and more intolerant voice from the fundamentalism. >> chris dickey the stage in france seems to be set for the most prime type of showdowns
because there is such a remarkable schism between progressives in paris and fundamentalists that are offended by this type of speech. >> well you know that's right. i mean obviously, the idea is toys late the people the extremists who are willing to kill in order to stifle free speech. you isolate them if necessary. you hunt them down. you eliminate them. but the problem is you got five to six million people who are muslims or of muslim backgrounds in this country. the number who believe in the kind of jihad we see represented in these attacks is miniscule. but the entire group gets painted with the stain of these jihadists and that's a real
problem. in this country things as you suggest, joe, is very complicated. the whole relationship with religion. the original laws that were used to stop women from wearing the vail in school and so on here were laws that went back to 1905 that were originally put in place to keep priests from telling people how to vote in country parishes. so you got a long history of religion and government intertwined, fighting with each other and now you have this add mixture of a large muslim population and then the history of the holocaust and all the reju diss involved there. we talk about freedom of speech in france nobody should deny throw coast or deny the armenian holocaust but in fact it is illegal to deny either holocaust in this country. it's against the law. now is that embracing free speech or not? >> interesting question. christopher dickey stay with us. we'll discuss this more.
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staff of "charlie hebdo" and their families tonight. i know very few people go into comedy, you know as an act of courage, mainly because it shouldn't have to be that. it shouldn't be an act of courage it should be taken as established law. but those guys at "charlie hebdo" had it and they were killed for their cartoons. stark reminder that for the most part the legislators and journalists and institutions we jab and ridicule are not in any way the enemy for however frustrating or outrage can become back and forth. it's still back and forth amongst those on team civilization. and this type of violence only clarifies that reality. >> this story really hits home for anyone who day in and day out mocks political, social and
religious figures. in this country we just take it for granted that it's our right to poke fun at the untouchable or the sacred. but today's tragedy in paris reminds us very viscerally it's a right some people are inexplicably are forced to die for. all of us are terribly sad for the families of those victims, for the people of france and for anyone tonight who has to think twice before making a joke. it's not the way it's supposed to be. so we'll move on now. we'll try to do a show. >> so there we have jon stewart and conan o'brien reacting to yesterday's shooting in france. political cartoonists will respond and in doing so very loudly by picking up their pens. one links the massacre in paris to september 11th. one focuses on the juxtaposition
of freedom. you show the terrorist to the cartoonist saying he drew first referring to his pen. >> a lot of moving cartoons yesterday. >> look at this one. this is the one you're talking about. coming up we'll speak to "the washington post" cartoonist about what he drew in response to the paris murders. we'll get an exclusive response from the state department. stay with us. "morning joe" continues after a quick break.
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welcome back to "morning joe." david ignatius is with us. along with the foreign editor of the "daily beast" christopher dickey. and washington ceo and editor of the group that publishes foreign magazine david rothman. we are having an interesting conversation we won't have completely on the air. we're talking about how this happened in paris and what happened after this occurred in paris, the first responders came on bikes, the cops. whereas if you had something like this happen in new york chicago, birmingham atlanta, wherever there would be 200 cop cars with guns drawn.
i just wonder whether this is going, ayman going to cause a cultural change which thomas brought up about sending first respond towers attacks like this on bicycles with no arms or light arms if this doesn't require europe to toughen their response? >> well there's two things at play here. one the united states is second to none in assessing risk and adopting the measures to prevent that risk from being a possible threat. that's one. two, if you've identified a growing threat in your territory, like in france that for the past several months all kinds of problems things that have benton radar, and we've been talking about how good the domestic services are and how good the french security services are what measures have been put in place on a societal level, what has changed? i'm not sure a lot has changed over the course of the last several months even in the wake of attacks like in madrid and bombings in london there are police forces that remain
unarmed. society itself expects its police to behave or respond differently than what we're signing like you were telling me in the break, what we expect from the police how many cops roll up what kind of weapons they are carrying. society here is more armed than what we're used to seeing. >> we have david ignatius we got -- >> how do you respond to a scene like this. >> 200 million guns in circulation in the united states. that certainly adds a component to it where you're not sure you know, what office you're going into, who is on the other side of that door and what weapons are on the other side of the door. also with policing i have no doubt that in new york city ayman was just saying you don't see cops walking around with guns at 30 rock you get out on 6th avenue there's five cops whirling around. we have a lot of police officers
and like washington, d.c., i just -- i can't believe that places like france and, you know, countries like france and england are not going to have to re-examine. >> par vase major city. you're not talking about a small town or village. >> there are a lot of police on streets in paris. i lived there for four years. they are not heavily armed. sometimes para military feel that the american city has you don't have in europe. french citizens will be asking those questions. i think there's a deeper problem that security authorities every where are going to be looking at today. there's a fire raging on the internet that is inflaming young muslims as they watch videos of the jihad being fought in syria and iraq. if you look at these videos honestly, they are shocking. they are just show people
shooting their enemies in the streets. and there's this kind of wild west feeling, i think, that's alive where the limits on the kinds of activities an individual or an individual and his brother or a group of friends would take those limits are coming off and somehow that internet fire has to be doused and i think people will be thinking very hard how do you get at that part it even as you have law enforcement on the street. >> that's what we were talking about yesterday. we, in fact will be talking to somebody google about a question that we raised yesterday morning on the air what responsibilities internet providers have. and, chris, let me go to you. on the front pages of most american papers you have the horrific moment right before the police officer was shot in the head by one of the two terrorists, and americans reading closer to that story
this morning, many asking the same question why was he unarmed? >> well you know most of the police here are armed. i don't know why that particular policeman was not armed. listening to the discussion i think david put his finger on it. there are a lot of cops in this town. there are two basic police forces national police force and then the crs and they go around very very heavily armed. if you go in the subway behind me where i just was recently you will see guys in full battle gear. what they've tried and you'll also see in the airports if you go no terrify game cathedral, this was before these incidents began, you would see armed soldiers walking the streets with automatic weapons in full battle dress. so it's not like this is a great demilitarized area.
the "charlie hebdo" shootings took place in a situation where, in fact there were police on the site who were armed. i'm sure the body guard for the editor-in-chief of "charlie hebdo" was armed. but he was not equipped to go up against two guys with ak-47s. if you're an editor of a satirical magazine you have guys sitting around with automatic weapons, i don't think so. >> that's a good point. >> unless al qaeda has me on their hit list. who knows. perhaps. your point is well taken. let me ask you, though chris, what's the reaction that you hear this morning in paris, this afternoon now in paris other than shock? what is the debate? where is the debate taking us a day later about what needs to be done to prevent this type of
tragedy from occurring again in the future? >> i don't think that debate has progressed very far, to tell you the truth. you know what needs done is to find a better way to integrate five or six million people from arab and muslim backgrounds into french society. nobody has found an answer for that. what needs to be done is to find a message to deliver to young men who are unemployed who feel that they have been left out of the society where they live and who probably want to identify with some greater cause, that's certainly the case with two brothers who are being sought. their cause being jihad, and that's a cause that they have been trying to identify with for ten years. what's the message you give these guys? yeah you should just enjoy french society when you don't have money, a job or a future? it's very hard.
it's very hard to go up against islamic ideology that says we're going to make you a knight under the prophet's banner you will defend women and children from the crusaders trying to kill them, you'll try to end the occupation by the terrible americans, you'll fight this great cause to defend muslims. very hard to go up against that message and that is the message precisely that david was talking about when he was talking about the poison that's being spread on the internet. it's a fantasy of a crusade, if you will against the west. and it's very seductive for a lot of these guys. >> you know you're venturing into territory that we've tried to sort of get our arms around here on this set how do you come to terms with exactly where this comes from what it's derived from because you can look at societies that have people that are left out, people who are poor people who are desperate and they don't go around killing people. so how do you separate and you
can bring david into this conversation. >> since 9/11 in the post-9/11 world we've found that sometimes it's not the poor the disaffected that engage and that lead in many of these terrorist acts. sometimes it's middle class muslims. >> doesn't mean you condemn a religion, but is it a factor? >> i think -- without a doubt i think chris's question is most relevant in paris because you don't have to go back to what happened a month ago, six months ago, you can go back a decade ago and see the riots in the suburbs of paris by mostly young, disaffected muslims. david, let's bring you in. we read earlier jeffrey goldberg europe under siege. it's a monument to post world
war ii continental ideas of tolerance, free speech and openness. all of these notions seem to be under attack at once. jeff goldberg says europe is under siege. talk about that. talk about yesterday and talk about the challenge all across europe. >> look you know the issue has been brewing for a long time long before this particular attack, and i think we have to be just as worried about the reaction to the attack from nationalists, from right-wingers, from people who have sought to drive this wedge as it was described earlier between the islamic communities and the mainstream communities in europe because that's the tinder that could spark a fire that could go far, far beyond anything in these attacks. even listening to the conversation here it's very important that we recognize the
value of restraint in response to these things. these are terrifying horrifying attacks but they are conducted by just a few people. they are conducted by people who are radicalized by overreaction. one of the reports has it that one of these guys who led this attack was radicalized by reading about abu ghraib. prior to that he was not an extremist and after that he moved into this vein of thought. we have to really keep away from the kind of reactions that lead to, you know should this society be more armed. it's ironic to listen to a conversation that says perhaps these police need be more militarized. just a few weeks after we had the debate in ferguson about how overmilitarized our police is. >> i thought about that. i'm at a loss as to how a police officer could respond to that scene of that massacre which is
clearly under way with no weapon because the fact he had no weapon is why he has died. if he a weapon -- i'm sorry, that just doesn't make any sense. it's a policy issue within the french police at this point probably and a much smaller issue. ayman -- >> david wanted to respond. >> i'm just saying you're absolutely right and perhaps that police officer should have been armed. but we don't need to go from there to an american society where you have 200 million weapons. you don't need go from there to militarized society. you don't want to do things that inflame the divides within european society. it's a very fragile situation. new immigration is driving it further. and the foreign fighter situation which may be related to this will inflame it even further still and we got to be very careful that we do as much to keep a lid on internal tensions within these societies as we do to hunt down and track down the few who are causing problems. >> i want to go to ayman on.
the wedge within society, in france muslims, immigration issues it is a fear to condemn a whole section of people. at the same time i feel you feel that's happening. not sure -- go ahead. >> i mean when you have headlines like this which say, you know, it says don't pretend it has nothing to do with islam. that drives the wedge. yesterday in yemen there were 30 plus yemenese that were killed by al qaeda related terrorists. muslims are dying by terrorists as well. so to make the notion that somehow this is a religious problem, i think really drives that wedge that christopher and david are talking. >> can you make the notion there was no religion involved here there was no layers of or connective tissue to use thomas' term between religion? >> what i would say -- >> and what's happening. >> what i would say is there's no freedom in this issue. as a result these young muslims
are not exposed to a variety of ideas and a variety of interpretations of what is right and what is wrong. they feel there's only one way to do it coupled by these other societal problems. >> what's the one way. >> they feeley had is the only thing to belong to something bigger than themselves. >> up are making the connection? >> these individuals interpret their religion in one way. this is not a systematic problem of the way the religion teaches people to go out and practice their religion. the problem in society across the arab world where there. >> plurality of ideas, because you get one interpretation and that's the only way these individuals feel they have a right to defend their religion. >> how they interpret it. >> but if you think that you can go into countries in the middle east and criticize their leaders you would be thrown in jail. you can't criticize and interpret their religion openly
and can't criticize the political leadership in many of these countries. you have a society that lacks freedom. not a problem with a religion. and these are the points that are sometimes lost bet to jump out and say islam has a problem with tolerance. it doesn't. societies has a problem with tolerance and we're not teaching these young steroids to beler rants. >> you don't think islam has a problem with tolerance? >> i don't. >> towards women? do you think -- >> absolutely not. absolutely not. i think there are societal problems that are misinterpreted -- again we had this discussion anthony settlement times when it comes to tissue of religion. and women. it's the thing that a lot of people in the west like to throw out quickly look saudi arabia doesn't let women drive. that is not a religious issue. that is not the way islam -- there were no cars at the time of islam so nobody could have come out and said you can't drive. but some people have decided to interpret their religion in a way that has become counter
productive to women's reits. >> up say some people. is it some people or the majority of islamic religious leaders that have interpreted the religion that way? >> i would definitely say not. i would say there's a tremendous -- there's an overlapping problem. >> i'm speaking now of let's say for instance women's reits in the muslim world. >> again, we've had this discussion. you've had muslim countries that have had prime ministers that are women and you have muslim countries that have had women not even allowed to drive a car. so two muslim countries predominantly muslim populations have interpreted their religion to mean two different things on capabilities of women and what women can do. this gets lost. you can't brush the 1.6 billion muslims in the world. it's an attack on muslims as attack on freedom of speech. more people are seeing these
cartoons because of the acts of these two individuals than anything before that. you know. before the shooting. a lot of people in the muslim world may not have seen the cartoons but now because everybody is retweeting it these cartoons are trending, proliepro prolie fere prolieferating. >> it made statements but used that now to make a larger statement. and as david had just made a statement about that one of these radicalized murderers feels abu ghraib and seeing those images on the internet is the reason why he was flipped and feels that he has to go out and vindicate such atrocities that have been performed against his own society. >> it's the point that chris was making earlier that these individuals feel they need to feel empowered to do something
because they are lost in their societies. they find this cause. it's a romantic idealistic cause and they feel the only way to express themselves in that way is through this deadly -- >> let me bring in chris dickey who wants to get in. >> yeah. i mean i think we're talking about this as if terrorism and these kinds of issues existed only in the context of islam. that's untrue. you look at terrorist moments, terrorist actions anywhere in the world. they have sort of three basic elements in common. we can talk about the ira, we can talk about sri lanka or any place you want. it will involve young men. who basically have nothing else to do. it's going to involve their identification with a narrative in which they are protecting people, in which they are knights in shining armor. that's why the lead ideolog of
al qaeda call them knights of the banner. that's a great thing if you live in the housing projects of france to think of yourself as going out and defending an oppressed people. but that's also why a lot of the terrorists you see are not the people who are down troddened, they are middle class people educated people who decide they want to go save the people who are down troddened. finally in the modern world what you see is a lot of a desire to project yourself on the world stage, to do something that will put you on international television and that idea of projecting yourself around the world that's a new element in this mix and an extremely dangerous one. you know i don't know if you know who the director s-he does these spectacular hollywood disaster films, they were the favorite films of al qaeda. they loved to watch them. they loved the idea before 9/11
that they could create an event that would project itself on the world stage the way the images of the films did. so you got all that coming into play and none of it is religious. as i say it could be the ira, it could be the tigers it could be any organization that you talk about. we always discuss this we always discuss this as if somehow it's exclusive to islam. when we know a lot of the guys who fight in syria buy books literally or more or less like islam for dummies. they didn't grow up reading the koran. they cherry pick a few verses from the koran to justify what they want to do within the context i'm describing right now. i think a lot of -- if we can understand that better we can have a more coherent discussion not on this program which has had a great discussion but, in fact, in society. the idea that terrorism equals
islam, islam equals terrorism is going create a situation where we can never begin to solve these problems. >> absolutely. that's perfect. we like it. >> couple what christopher just said with the rise of sclaum jo islamophobia. >> christopher dickey your context has been invaluable. david thank you. a close are look at the victims of yesterday's murders in paris their stories next. shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. start shopping online from a list of top-rated providers.
as we mentioned, the gunman first targeted stephane charbonnier, "charlie hebdo" editor editorial director. he was quoted as saying i have no wife no kids no credit cards, no car, i prefer to die standing than live on my knees. charbonnier was 47 years old. the lead artist the 76-year-old had drawings first published when he was 15. he had more than 35,000 drawings. one writer said he was the most skillful cartoonist of his generation. another victim french economist and author bernard maris. known to readers as uncle
bernard. maris was 68 years old. 80-year-old george wolinski was also killed. he started drawing cartoon in the 1960s and was known for his take on politics and sexuality. he said that you had morists don't belong to any religion or political party. they called him the dean and spiritual father to many modern cartoonists. and one of the victims was a 73-year-old man, believed to be the artist of the last cartoon tweeted by the paper. honore worked at the paper for 22 years. the 49-year-old body guard that protected "charlie hebdo's" editor and a father of two, a janitor there, also among those killed. we'll be following those stories, that tremendous loss. still ahead the impact of the paris murders on political satire in our own nation's
correspondent for "time," vivian. vivian this is unfolding. what have you seen so far in terms of the reaction in terms how the government is hand technology situation there? >> well obviously, president francois hollande is deeply unpopular man in this country. most french people said they would like him out of power. now he's under scrutiny for the way he handled this attack. the prime suspects are people who have been under police surveillance for years and the attack happened really under the noses of the french police. so people are deeply concerned about the fact that this hasn't gone too well and moreover this might not be the only attack or the biggest attack for that matter. >> do we know anything more about previous thwarted attacks? >> well french intelligence has said on a number of occasions that they have thwarted a number of atax although they won't give details. we know that there have been
threats against the paris metro, for example. the eiffel tower. major sites around the city which today they were supposed to be under great lockdown. i just took two metros across the city and didn't see a single police officer in any of the stations. this is a city that's pretty much going about its business as normal, and perhaps that's a good thing. there's a sense of defiance a sense that people will not be cowered into taking extreme measures because of this attack. >> now, it's surprising because we were told that security has been stepped up especially at transportation hubs. perhaps no uniforms or undercover who knows. >> possibly. but go ahead. >> i'm wondering about -- >> it's no easy matter to lock down the city of millions of people, of course.
>> obviously. there has been a shooting i think it was two female officers overnight in the suburbs of paris. any connections, fears, concerns about that? >> actually it was this morning south of paris and so far we don't know if there's any connection whatsoever. of course it deepens anxiety, people are already on edge. one of those police women have since died of her injuries. and the shooter is again, as in yesterday's attack appear to have fled the scene. so the police at this point are stretched pretty thin and are dealing with two manhunts at this point. >> "time" magazine's viv walt. thank you so much. here on the set, richard haas joining us and from washington under secretary of state rick
stengle back on the show. >> the united states can they assist france moving forward? >> joe, good morning. you saw the secretary's passionate denunciatiaon of the attack in french and english. it's something we deplore. it's not just an attack on france our oldest ally but an attack on democratic ovals, the corner stones of any modern democracy. of course we are shoulder to shoulder with france. they are a military ally of ours as well. we're sharing intelligence and helping them in every way we can. >> richard haas what have you learned over the past 24 hours? >> you know i haven't learned that much, i'm afraid. i read the papers just like you do. i mean we haven't raised our
threat level. we are looking at embassies around the world where we're always attuned to protecting american citizens. we haven't altered anything. >> all right. richard haas obviously a lot of talk at the council of foreign relations in the past 24 years ago. jeffrey goldberg wrote yesterday that the massacre yesterday represent ad direct attack on the most crucial western ideals there continues to be this ongoing battle against the west and radical strain of islam that we saw on 9/11. does this take us to a new stage >> it's the latest installment of what's become the latest chapter. we saw it in ottawa australia and parts of the united states. >> why is the pace quickening? >> it doesn't take a lot to quicken face. it doesn't take a lot in the way of numbers, retail terrorism to
make a real difference. the analogy that keeps coming to mind is when i lived in washington and you had the sniper and filling up your car with a tank of gas became something dangerous and heroic. that's what we're seeing in modern societies. we're doing the mundane becomes in some ways something that puts you in jeopardy. putting yourself in a public place. the other thing citizen before the security wall. every movie theater, shopping mall restaurant had security and that's the question whether one day we have to think about -- what walter said you didn't lock down an entire city. but what we'll face is the challenge of providing local or point security for our societies. >> david ignatius talk about david, if you will the challenges to the intel committee that you have such an ongoing, great relationship with. the challenges when suddenly as
michael hayden says this morning it's not about flying planes in buildings but a shooting in little rock or a driver in times square. >> we're you're not to discussion on al qaeda or small group you can target or hundreds of thousands of individuals harder intelligence challenge. you depend on local leaders in the muslim communities who will talk to the authorities about what they know. the u.s. traditionally has had less of a problem with home grown terrorists as they are called because in our muslim communities generally people feel they have a stake in america. they come to america. they've done well in so many cases. and the sheiks in the local mosques will talk authorities. that's less true in these european communities and one thing that the french will be talking about, the belgians the british as they look at this
attack is how do we make sure we stay in touch in an intelligence sense with the leadership of our local muslim communities. if there's one thing we've learned in the years after september 11th 2001 is over reaction that polarizes, ends up being more of a problem than people realize. >> rick it's ayman here in new york. what is the public arm of the state department doing combat the extremists ideology that's luring so many of these people on the internet. what is the state department doing combat that extremist trends. >> one of the things we're trying to do is help and buttress and support expressions and condemnations, for examples the killings in france by muslim groups. saudi arabia, jordan morocco, gulf countries all condemn this attack. you've seen imams and clerics condemn this attack.
we're very supportive of that and that's something we're not marshalling but something we salute as well. to pick up on richard's thought that i thought was very smart. one of the unintended consequences of this is people are realizing press freedom is not free. 35,000 people that came out in paris last night who were holding pens and pencils, the demonstrations that are around the world, people are realizing these values are essential to freedom and essential to their lives and i think i would say that these kind of terrorist attacks ultimately will backfire because free people all around the world and middle east will protest. >> rick stengle thank you for being with us. richard stay with us if you will. coming up next one of france's leading thought leaders will be with us. >> he joins us next from paris.
♪ 42 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from paris, french public intellectual author and journalist bernard andre levy and founder of the moral courage foundation. bernard, i would like to talk to you first from paris and tell us overall the reaction in paris and the thoughts among the people one day later after this attack. >> you can see the mood of paris through the images you see. it's gloomy. it's cloudy. and it's a storm. i am in paris. all the parisians this morning
are in a storm. this is the mood of france today. the other thing i can say is that it's a day of great sorrow. you can contemplate even if you're not the same to what happened to america the day after september 11th. it's september 11th. the third thing i want to say is that we had yesterday night a huge reaction from the people. the terrorists were to frighten us to tell french people to stay at home. to be full of fear. french people said no. they went in the streets under the storm and all of them all parties, all ages they stood upon and on their values to say
no to the fear no to the terror we are proud french patriots. this is the reaction of france today. >> bernard, it's richard haas. beyond that initial powerful reaction, what do you see, if you will, the policy reaction to come over the next few days? what does france do about the reality that 7.5% of its people are muslim and even if only a small percentage is alienated you have this recurring problem. what are the policy results of all of this? >> i think that francois hollande the french president is a churchillian moment. number one condemnation. pain and tears. also we announce that we're
entering in a long and terrible battle against a terrible and determined enemy. one thing. second thing i think that france will learn from the lessons of other brother or sister countries like america. america on september 11th made a correction but with patriotic acts. america had great citizens and can stand. my feeling is that france will try to avoid this trap and the message of john kerry yesterday, john kerry made a great speech speaking in french and saying in french i ham charlie. what did mr. kerry do? three thing. a gesture of brotherhood, an old
ally which we are, france. number, two he gave to what happened in paris its dimension. the last time an american president made a speech in french, do you know what it is? it is president roosevelt, 1942 on london radio which was a radio of general de gaulle he differed a speech in french. john kerry who is not a president but a great man sent this way a strong signal he put his feet in the foot steps of president roosevelt by addressing us in french. and the third thing he said probably was he was, don't forget the under secretary of george w. bush and said please france allies learn from the
lessons of your brother, sister country america. >> amen. >> thank you. our conversation continues next after a break. also still ahead, yesterday's attack on commentary not silencing the commentators. one of the world's most outspoken political commentators joins us next. ! hummmp daaay! it's hump day! >>yeah! >>hey mike! mike mike mike mike mike! >>mike mike mike mike mike. hey! he knows! hey! guess what day it is! hey! camel! guess what day it is! >>it's not even wednesday. let it go, phil. if you're a camel, you put up with this all the time. it's what you do. (sigh) if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. ok...
in washington political cartoonist for "the washington post," tom tolls, and ershad with us as well. tom, to you first. obviously, a very moving cartoon yesterday. and of course the line but the pen will endure. and you write in small letters, and the line has been drawn. talk about the process, why it had to be so difficult and so personal for you. >> well first of all, it's --
it's just a shock. i mean the word terrorism is used, the word murder is used less frequently today, but that's what it is. i mean it was working individuals, colleagues french colleagues of mine murdered for doing their job. and so it's personal. it's painful. i mean the loss for them and their families. just excruciating. it makes you think about everything that you do. i mean know that they're -- nothing is risk free. it brings it so close to home. and i wanted to say something both direct and meaningful but not simplistic. and this is obviously a takeoff or an extension of the idea that the pen is mightier than the sword, but it's not just a case of oh it's mightier the pen always wins. i mean we have dead individuals as a result of this act.
the right of free expression and the pen that i drew there is shown as with dignity, but laying next to a very powerful weapon. freedom of expression will endure, because it will but it's not as simple as oh yes, free expression always wins every time. >> let me ask about the effect perhaps chilling effect this may have on expression. >> and we know this. that there were quite a few newspapers and magazines that refuse to reprint, including the ap any of their cartoons. >> as a lawyer and somebody who's been in the opinion biz for 27 years, we're paid to say things that's -- that are raucous and abrade the public sentiment. i've got good news. the good news is that we love to make causal connections. is this an islamic message.
the answer is no, it's not. right now, there are 1.6 billion muslims on this planet. if 10% were to use the mind-set correctly, rabid jihadists, that's the good news. there are leaders of the muslim community who are basically speaking against this. but nothing has solidified public opinion and the need for unfettered free expression -- i hate i say, sadly, than this event. it's done more to bolster free speech. >> to your point, we've been waiting to quoteget to you here, what is your understanding of religion especially given a lot of the deductions people are making in light of the massacre in paris? >> mika i can tell you that there are two main reactions, and they're very much based on different life experiences.
one reaction is from nonmuslims who say, irshad i thought there was hope for reform in islam, clearly there isn't. what i say to them is then you're not making an effort to look for where the hope is. because when good muslims say and do good things what we expect muslims to do they of course are not going to make news. it's those who engage in sensational acts such as bombing, beheadings and shootings, who make news. and so we wind up having a very lopsided picture of what muslims are about. and particularly a young generation of muslims, mika i can tell you, you know i've received death threats and hate mail in the past. these days i can honestly report to you that i receive far more love bombs from young muslims who are hungry for debate and discussion about what is going on in the name of our faith. so that's one reaction. and the other reaction is
indeed, from muslims all over the world who have on social media, defended free speech including offensive speech and have said these thugs, these terrorists make a mockery of our faith. >> tom, quick question for you. how do you draw the line between what is hate speech in a cartoon and what is political satire? there are some who have criticized some of these cartoons as inflammatory and hate speech. how do you as a cartoonist draw that line? >> well i draw that line every day. i think it's important to say today is not the day to draw that line. this was -- these were people who were murdered for expressing their opinions and that is just unacceptable on every level. there's plenty of time before and after to talk about -- and talk about which is part of free expression what's acceptable what's smart, and we can argue about that all day long. but right now, today, we don't argue about that. this was murder for free expression. and that's unacceptable. start to finish.
>> what's next for europe? lionel, what's the next step? is that we continue especially in france this debate on how much immigration? >> that's going to be part of it. the good news is there will be an absolute explosion but appreciation for free expression. you're going to see this more and more. you're also going to see the role of the cartoonists elevated even greatly. through this tragedy there will be much much good that will be inspired by this. >> irshad do you agree with that? >> i absolutely do. i'm already seeing evidence of it where more and more young muslims are making the effort to express openly their love of free speech. because they know that their own ability to express themselves as individuals depends on everybody else's ability to do the same. >> irshad maji thank you.
ignatius. terrorism analyst michael sheehan. and the foreign editor for the daily beast, live in just a few minutes. >> every front page not only in this country, across europe across the world all telling the absolutely terrible terrible events that unfolded yesterday morning in paris. here's "financial times." and "usa today." i'll tell you what a picture that actually symbolized in great way the protests last night. cold chilly night in paris. not afraid. and of course -- >> je suis. >> the local tabloids no mercy. the daily news, right before the horrific moment. and mika it continues. there was a lot of information last night. some of it correct, some of it not correct.
let's get everybody up to date with the very latest. including, unfortunately, another death. >> it's actually in the suburb of paris that's adding fears this morning after the charlie hebdo attack. nbc has confirmed a female police officer was shot and killed while investigating a traffic accident. a street sweeper was also shot. the police say the shooter was wearing dark clothes and was not wearing a mask. he ran away on foot. at this hour is still at large. however, officials say there's no known link to yesterday's terror attack and warned people against jumping to conclusion. having said that france is in a national day of mourning for the 12 people killed at charlie hebdo as a manhunt is still under way for a pair of french brothers considered armed and dangerous. the front page, as we said, of "usa today," may best sum up the
france france, je suis charlie, translation, i am charlie. police are doing all they can to find cherif and said kouachi. officials say cherif may have ties to al qaeda. he was convicted in 2008 and spent 18 months in prison. at this hour police say several others are in custody, including an 18-year-old who surrendered after he was name as a possible suspect. a when the carnage began. masked men with assault rifles called out specific names of staff members. first targeting the editor. one witness says he thought the gunmen were part of an anti-terrorism squad because they were so methodical and calculating. another witness said, in part quote, they knew exactly what they had to do and exactly where to shoot. this video shows two armed men casually exiting the building. just before they shot that wounded police officer point blank in the head.
officials say the suspects car jacked a vehicle after their initial getaway car crashed. eight journalists and two police officers are among those dead. 11 people also wounded. 4 in serious condition. the magazine frequently faced threats for its depictions of islam and was firebombed in ed ined in 2011. the paper's last tweet before the attack was a political cartoon of the leader of isis. to get a sense of the background as we were piecing this together yesterday, terrorist groups are reaching across borders to incite and recruit others with their own propaganda. here's nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel with his report. >> reporter: dressed in black, masked determined. cradling their weapons. the gunman look like seasoned veterans who stepped right off the battlefields of iraq, syria or yemen. or at the very least are mimicking the propaganda videos of terror groups to a tee.
not just as advertising but to turn their supporters into deadly weapons. both groups publish slick competing online magazines in english. both have been telling would be recruits not to come to the front lines in the middle east anymore but to stay at home and attack civilian targets. al qaeda's branch in yemen, the same group that killed an american reporter last month, specifically marked the editor of charlie hebdo for death in 2013. his magazine has infuriated them for printing anti-islamic material repeatedly. al qaeda in emweren said it would make the magazine pay for it. also on its hit list other activists who have criticized radical islam, including longtime target soleman rushdie. he said i stand with charlie as we all must.
there has been a spate of recent attacks. the gunman in canada the man with the ax in new york, the attack in a cafe in sydney. all inspired by islamic militants to take matters into their own hands. >> the more innocents who are killed in these attacks, the greater impetus for others to carry out similar attacks. >> reporter: a magazine which radicals considered an affront to their intolerant ideology. >> of course there are problems all across the globe. it seeps to be -- the pace seems to be picking up. the problem more significant in france. first, let's take a closer look at the role of france's muslim population. and just the situation that's going on there. according to npr, france has the largest muslim population in europe. the estimates range between 5 million and 6.5 million. that represents at least 8% of the french population. if you take the conservative
estimate. by comparison, the numbers of muslims in america is at 3 million or 1% of america's population. recent survey shows that 74% of french citizens view islam as intolerant and incompatible with french values. 70% said too many foreigners were in the country. while no official data is available to estimate exactly how many inmates are of what makeup estimates say half of all inmates in france are muslim. that of course some terror experts say make them easy prey for jihadists. in january of 2013 more than 1,000 cars are torched. but officials stopped publicizing the number because it was encouraging competition between rival games s gangs of muslim youth. last year the middle east
research institute included #s paris burning and paris is a battlefield. david ignatius. we have known for over a decade there has been a strain in france. regarding the growth of muslim population. many people in france that oppose large groups of muslims coming in. it looks like obviously it boilled over yesterday. and there may be the beginning of a very long battle internally politically, and unfortunately, we saw militarily at times. >> this is a severe problem for france because the size of the muslim population is so large. 5 to 6 million. and because the tensions between the very secular french mainstream society and the very religious largely north african
french muslim population are so sharp and charlie hebdo, the magazine, had become a focal point for that. just a few things joe, i've learned in my conversations with people over the last 24 hours, first, was told last night by a u.s. official that there is some evidence of contact between the kouachi brothers and french algerians, one in particular who had been trained long term by al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, al qaeda affiliate in yemen that's behind so many terrorist attacks. this attack did not have the hallmarks of an aqap attack. those are usually meticulously prepared. suicide bombings. this was a running shooting gun battle. but i am told there is evidence of that aqap yemen link that authorities are looking at carefully now. the second point i make is that for french people today, one
question will be why were their internal security authorities, their fbi, known as the dst, not more attentive to these kouachi brothers in particular cherif kouachi, who was arrested held in jail for wanting to join the jihad, for wanting to go to iraq. in 2005 '06, '07, why wasn't there better surveillance of him and his activities? how did he get with his brothers ak-47s to blow in the door of a place that was supposed to be guarded? >> guarded and on an al qaeda hit list? it would have to be seen as one of the most likely targets. michael sheehan, what's your take away from everything that's happened over the past 24 hours? as david ignatius said this is not a typical al qaeda hit. >> we joe, last time i was here with you was at the australian
killings. this is more strategic, this is targeting the media that attacks or criticizes islamic terrorism or islamic radicalism. also, if this other attack is associated, this killing in the streets, associated with this attack on charlie, we have beginnings of a very strategic attack by al qaeda or its associates on france. so this is ratcheting up the level of attacks to a degree we've not seen in many years. >> france's terror alert is at its highest level following the attack. there is extra security at transportation hubs and at places of worship. french president francois hollande called those killed or wounded in the hero attacks heroes who were killed in an act of barbarism. he visited the scene of the massacre and urged the country to stand together. president obama called his french counterpart to offer condolences. he also strongly condemned the gruesome attack on journalists.
as did secretary of state john kerry. >> the fact that there was attacked on journalists, an attack on our free press, also underscored -- these terrorists fear freedom of speech and freedom of the press. >> those who carry out senseless attacks against innocent civilians, ultimately they'll be forgotten, and we'll stand with the people of france through this very very difficult time. >> they may wield weapons. but we in france and in the united states share a commitment to those who wield something that is far more powerful. not just a pen but a pen that represents an instrument of freedom, not fear. free expression and a free press are core values. they are universal values. principles that can be attacked
but never eirrate eradicated because brave people will never give in to the terror those seeking to destroy those values employ. >> let's talk about the attacks. let's talk about the magazine. obviously, this magazine was not only provocative towards muslims, they're very provocative towards christians. in fact a cartoon just a couple weeks ago mocking jesus on the cross. a lot of things a lot of people would be -- find deeply offensive. >> yeah, in fact i was actually yesterday reading some of the commentary about the magazine. to conflate the the two issues here. one is some people viewed the commentary by that magazine as hate speech. they felt it was extremely inflammatory. that absolutely does not justify what happened yesterday.
but it's also important not to make it seem like they were completely ridiculing a single religion. they did it across the board. they defended jews christians. but also they mocked in a way religious icons across the board. the difference is it's not just they were going after islamic radicals. the reason that's an important point to make if you're offending and mocking entire religious groupings, you then widen the base of which people can be offended and carry out these attacks. and i think that's what we saw yesterday. these individuals were born in paris. and i think that also goes back to that point about why this home grown terrorism is the biggest threat now that many of these countries are facing both in europe and including elsewhere. >> david ignatius you look at what's happened in paris, you also look at the debate going on in sweden where you actually
have the swedish people going to vote and trying to cut dramatically immigration into their country. and then you have political leaders coming together and saying we're going to ignore the will of the people and we're going to continue fairly aggressive immigration levels. it seems to me this is a moment not just for the people of france who have been debating this for quite some time. this is now a moment for all of europe to figure out exactly what their immigration policies are going to be going forward. and when they -- when they decide they're going to have to cut immigration back significantly, and i suspect that's going to be determined in a lot of local and state elections coming up. >> joe, i think you put it exactly right. it's a very delicate moment for europe. you've had before this terrible attack with 12 dead rising
nationalism, angry nationalism in france where people are saying we've been too open to immigrants, they're taking our jobs they're destabilizing our way of life. you've had pushback in france and belgium, in the netherlands, in sweden as you say. the danger is that as these populations react angrily to what they perceive as a home grown terrorist threat in their midst, the authorities will do things to crack down on those muslim populations that drive a much sharper wedge between the native born traditional europe populations and the new muslim arrivals. i fear that's precisely what the jihadists would like to see. they want to drive that wedge. they'd like to see a polarization, a battle between the muslims and the secular europen
europen europeans. the authorities have to be careful they don't make this situation more polarized. i'm told immediately after this attack the french authorities were in every muslim community, working their sources, talking to people turning over rocks, looking for evidence. and the question's whether you do that in a way the community perceives as friendly or whether you do it in a way that's seen as insulting and further polarizing. >> all right. before we go to break, we want to look at some of the people confirmed by nbc news as among those lost in this terror attack. as we mentioned earlier, the gunman first targeted stefan charbonnier, charlie hebdo's editorial director. he said he was not fazed by possible threats. once quoted as saying i don't have kids a wife no car, no credit. it may seem pompous but i'd rather die standing than live on my knees. charbonnier was 47 years old. jean cabut was a much-praised
french cartoonist who was the lead artist. the 76-year-old had his first drawings published when he was just 16 years old. another victim french economist and arthur bernard maris. 80-year-old george wolinski was also killed. he was known for his takes on politics and sexuality. one other victim i'm reading about, one of the police officers killed in the attack, leaves behind a young daughter and according to french media, he was a member of the special protection service and part of charb's protection team. killed inside the building. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to speak to the writer and the director of "the imitation game" which is up for five golden globes here this sunday. hear it's very good. right now, a look at bill karins
for a look at the dangerously cold temperatures. >> schools were smart in chicago and providence and boston to cancel. today's windchill values are dangerous. i'm impressed with these temperatures. by far the cold et morning of the winter season. every state in the lower 48 has at least one spot below 32 degrees. the coldest, caribou maine. they're at negative 21. detroit is at 0. chicago's at negative 6. mobile 17. down to the gulf. we have about 183 million people under windchill warnings or advisories at this hour. now, we talk about the windchill itself. look at all those negative numbers. everything in white. that's a good chunk of the quarter northern and eastern of this country. down to new orleans, a windchill of 12. snow coming. blizzard warnings through north dakota. with snow coming down through fargo and grand forks. this will be a clipper but it will bring snow tonight, tomorrow green bay, through
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the "usa today," the fbi is investigating an explosion outside an naacp office in colorado. it was a case of domestic terrorism. that's the question. s say the home made pipe bomb detonated outside a bash barber shop next to the local naacp chapter in colorado springs and a gasoline canister was placed next to the device.
it didn't explode. there were no injuries. officials haven't named suspects but say they're looking for a person of interest. >> the dallas morning news. new detail also about the tuesday shooting at a va clinic in el paso texas, that left one doctor and the gunman dead. fbi officials say the va psychologist killed in the attack had filed a complaint against the alleged killer in the past. 48-year-old jerry sarado an army veteran who worked at the clinic in 2013 as a desk clerk reportedly made a verbal threat to the doctor in a grocery store last year. police say sarado killed the doctor tuesday with a handgun before taking his own life. the complaint is the only connection they've found between the two. >> from the new york daily news. a second meeting between new york city police commissioner and bill bratton and the head of the police unions has failed to end the feud. union leaders continue to
criticize the mayor who was not in attendance and a source told the daily news someone other than bratton warned consequences would come in arrest numbers continued to be on the decline. some ofaccused police of engaging in a slowdown as the rift continues. last week alone, arrests were down 56% and ticketing was down a staggering 92% -- >> wow. >> i hope -- >> we can park wherever we want huh? >> that's right. >> all right. >> this is a real problem. >> bring in all your cars and go where you want. >> park 'em everywhere. i like it. >> the daily beast. gates foundation released a video of former microsoft ceo bill gates drinking water processed from human waste. the -- >> i've heard about rich people like that. >> the billionaire philanthropist is working to bring clean drinking water and better sanitation to the world. this particular project involves a machine developed in seattle that turns sewage into clean
drinking water and electric power. this is amazing. >> bear grills has done this. >> drinks his own urine? >> yeah. >> sanitary he says. >> yeah. >> gates claimed the water tasted just as good as any bottled water. >> other than tasting like crap. i mean other than -- >> joe, stop. no, this is good what he's doing. it's amazing. you should support it. in fact i would like us to do a taste test here on the show so let's get some of that water here alex. will you coordinate that? and we'll have joe drink a gallon, okay. we'll see how he does. >> i don't know. >> are you dehydrated? >> yes, he's dehydrated. can we do that this week alex? absolutely. all right, thomas, next paper. you're drinking that. you're drinking that. >> his arms are crossed. he's folded off to this. the los angeles times, the california department of health is investigating nine cases of the measles which have linked to
disneyland. victims ss visited the disney theme park last month. analysts suggest a guest may have had the illness and exposed other visitors. advised to see their doctors and get checked out as a precaution. but happiest place on earth. going to get the measles. >> don't talk to me about disney world. >> you want to talk about drinking your own efluent like you're j.d. sallinger but you can't go to, you know -- >> oh no plastic, touching plastic things and paying thousands of dollars to do so. it doesn't make any sense. >> what would mickey mouse do? >> the san diego union tribune. you may have heard about snakes on a plane. but how about snakes in a drain. a business owner in san diego was shocked to find a 5 1/2 foot long boa constrictor staring her
down as she tried to unclog an overflowing toilet in a bathroom at her office. the woman ran out of the bathroom bathroom, locked the door and called for help. animal control found the snake. officials say the nearly 5 pound boa made its way to the pipes after escaping from its owner who lived in the building. that's scary. >> you need to know your neighbors. >> know your neighbors. >> know what kind of pets they have. >> up next much more to get to. the executive editor of harper's bazaar joins me on set. tweet me your questions questions @morningmika. stay with us. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only
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welcome back to "morning joe." 34 past the hour. joining us now. i've been waiting for this day. >> it's a good day. >> executive editor of harper's bazaar magazine laura brown. fair to say you're crazy. >> yes, absolutely. >> laura's here to talk about everything going on in the news but also to unveil the february cover. who you say is amanda.
>> amanda. miranda. >> miranda. >> and the image which i guess will come up in a second. >> it's not miranda sings who we need to book on the show. this is miranda kerr. >> and look she's waving at someone. she's so happy. >> she's so pretty. >> at some point, you will see her on our cover. miranda is a very big model. >> harper's bazaar is an elegant, really big-time magazine. >> we are elegant and big time. >> i know. >> so is miranda. she's a smart girl. she's australian. look, with a hat that good who needs one, see what i'm doing there. she's an aussie girl. i'm predisposed to her. she's actually -- used to be a victoria's secret model and got elevated prada for example put her in a show. then fashion people go ooh, prada. now she's with louis vuitton.
she's had quite a metamorphosis in her career. >> joe is executive producing this segment from the control room. >> he's yelling at us. >> he says he has an important question. >> i'm just curious, so a young model that doesn't wear a shirt, does she have any dating tips any dating advice? >> i think she has tons. >> which she shared with me. and i took vigorous notes. no she says she's sort of the proponent of something called circular dating. >> excuse me? >> yeah, dating in a circle. >> i don't know. >> what is that? >> the idea is a girl should date a number of guys at a time so she doesn't invest too much in one who is not worthy. >> meanwhile, she's freshly single, correct? >> she's freshly single. she's take meetings, as i like to call it. she's very much about energy. she carries a crystal around. >> that's advice for miranda. when i was 18 years old, i couldn't get one date.
>> yeah i had about eight going. >> really? >> she always -- exactly, i think if you look like miranda, it's easier. >> a girl calling a guy? >> say again? >> what about a girl calling a guy? >> she says no. she's a little bit like the rules on that. she says respond but don't reach out. >> which is, you know it depends on which way you go with this. there is that old philosophy that a guy has to chase. if that's what you're into. caveman tendencies or wherever. she says if somebody texts you, respond to them, you know communicate your interest but don't chase. and i'm like works for miranda. >> power moves for women that have nothing to do with dating i don't think. this is also in harper's bazaar. >> it's on our website. >> the six power moves women should consider using. >> like when you're -- >> is that part of it? do you stand like that in?
>> in a pencil skirt, because that's comfortable. >> the list includes introduce yourself using your first and last name. >> last night, i went to this dinner at ralph lauren's new restaurant. like mr. lauren i'm laura brown. regardless of that being a power move. >> what does that say about yourself when you list your first and last name? >> i think if it's in a professional environment. if i'm meeting people in a bar, i'm not going to be like -- but if i'm in a professional environment, think it's good to be like laura brown. >> let me ask about number two because it's very interesting. i know some republican senators have actually adopted a wider stance i think it is. so what does number two, adopt a more open stance, mean? >> yes, i don't know -- standing or sitting, i -- >> what does that mean? >> i think it means, you know, it's a body language. >> because i give a lot of advice about that. i think a lot of women walk in
the room. they apologize before they even introduce themselves. they're kind of uncomfortable about everything. you sit up straight. and you look at people right in the eye. all of a sudden you've asserted a physical kind of message of power. >> it's an openness. i don't think it's an open stance that -- but there is the defensive posture a lot of people get into in meetings as well which reads so badly. i think men, obviously, the way men and women sit -- >> don't look at me like that. >> you're perfect. then there's lewis. this is number three. >> that subway issue we have in new york. >> this is interesting because i am told i'm really bad about this. accept a compliment in two words. what do you mean? >> well say thank you. which i'm actually really bad at too. >> so laura, your outfit you look gorgeous. >> oh go on. >> go on is two words as well. >> thank you.
>> mika's terrible at taking compliments. >> i've gotten better as i'm gotten older. i think as you get more established, you get more ownership of what you do and how you look. i think when you're younger, you say, oh thanks -- >> what if your bs meter's going off? >> you just go thanks and move on. you know what i mean -- >> is that how you found yourself in a lot of situations -- at harper's bazaar, business situations where your bs meter -- >> you go that's great. and just bs right back. >> i really like not accepting the first offer. for some reason we feel like we need to accept everything. order with confidence. i want to get your thoughts on this. an italian psa about domestic violence involving children has gone viral. racking up over 35 million views in just a few days. that's amazing. the ad shows boys between the ages of 7 and 11 answering questions about themselves and meeting a young girl. each boy is instructed to say
what they like about her. and interact with her. and then they're asked to slap her. here's what happens. >> it's unbelievable. >> no. >> no? [ speaking foreign language ] >> oh wow. >> the expression on their faces says it all. >> that is so beautiful. >> i think it's incredible. i think the last little kid who says "because i'm a man." >> a real man. >> cognizant of being a little
man himself. he's like well real men don't hit women. to have that philosophy coming from, what is he 7 or 8 years old? >> swap out that girl for one of their sisters. >> they'll be pulling her hair. >> i love -- >> it's provocative but it's very sweet and i think that's exactly what's needed. i know that there's some -- the debate being that domestic violence often happens in a long-term relationship. but what's the harm of this? people who see this is wrong from the absolute start. >> we're going to get to business before the bell. cnbc's sara eisen with that. sara, good to see you. happy new year. what you got? >> good to see you as well. i want to share some better news on jobs and the economy. we just got unemployment claims. how many americans filed last week. that number dropped by 4,000 which is a good sign to 294,000. and that was a little bit better than the week before. so continuing to see improvement. of course, the big news will be tomorrow when we get the monthly
job report for november. excuse me for december. and it is following and should cap off the best year of job gains since 1999. so we'll see if that progress continues. also today on wall street we're set to get monthly same-store sales for the month of december. the big retailers. announcing how they did in december. we did hear from costco and those numbers were pretty strong this morning. 3% sales growth. actually, that was including the world. just in the united states for costco, 5%. costco has been a bright spot. so we'll look for that. overall, look set to continue on yesterday's gains. which were the first, guys in 2015. it was a bumpy start. >> is the president's going to have good things to talk about in his state of the union as it comes up. sara sara, thank you. up next how one man cracked the nazi enigma code. and we'll spoke to the director and writer of "the imitation
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you said to do it in under 6. >> congratulations. my warmest welcome to his majesty's service. if you speak a word of what i'm about to show you, you will being executed for high treason. you will have your friends, your family and everyone you meet about what it is you really do. >> and what is it that we're really doing? >> we're going to break an unbreakable nazi code and win the war. >> oh. >> the imitation game. this movie nominated for five
golden globe awards including best motion picture drama and best screenplay. here with me now from the imitation game director morton tilden and screenwriter graham moore. thanks for joining us today. a really big night for you this weekend at the golden globes. i've heard everybody talks about this being the movie that has been sort of underplayed. >> thank you so much. that's really kind of you. now, thomas you were blown away by the movie? >> i was lucky enough to see the film and it was absolutely amazing. i am curious how you were able to get a movie about alaner it itting made because this is not your typical block buster. >> i don't know why you'd suggest a movie about a gay english math ma tation in the 1940s doesn't sound like a big hollywood movie. i think we got it made because it's an important story. alan turing is a name who should be as well known as einstein as darwin and newton and he's
not -- quite literally criminally the way he was treated by his own government and it felt so important to tell this story. >> so thrilling, i mean as the movie, it's like a spy thriller a war story. it's also a beautiful love story. >> how great to have those two elements together. how do you as, you know, in term also of the screenplay. obviously you have certain mechanisms for hollywood movies. you have all of this nuance in this particular character. >> i think the goal for us was to be true to his experience of the world. when morton says we showed a process of cracking the german code during the war as a spy thriller, that's because to alan it felt like a spy thriller. here's this 27-year-old plucked out of cambridge, never been outside the university environment in his life and now he's working alongside the highest levels cracking this code. it's a real life spy story.
>> all right so i'm looking at the nominations. best motion picture drama. best actor in a motion picture drama. best supporting actress. best original score. this ain't bad. >> so sorry. >> yeah day for you all. tell us about the cast. >> i mean i couldn't be more proud and happy for these amazing group of actors. >> we were lucky enough to have alan here to discuss the film. keira knightley, she puts in a fantastic performance. and benedict cumber batch, who really takes on odd roles. >> i think everyone can appreciate benedict's performance here. the way he captured the mind of this genius. his mouth almost can't quite catch up to his bath.
i think benedict has this tremendous advantage as an actor. he doesn't have to pretend to be an extremely smart person. >> for you, it was a very nuanced performance for certain characters to capture that. >> benedict we didn't want to sort of like -- turn into this cliche eccentric math genius character. he's more complex character than that. we wanted to do justice to him. benedict is this kind of actor where the camera can just linger. >> he's so accomplished but also -- as we've seen in the last year or two, become this massive sort of fetish object as well -- >> that's right. >> that's how we both thought of him so -- >> that's why -- it's a hag tag. i think that cannot be of any harm to your marketing. >> his fans are definitely very
welcome back. it's time to talk about what have we learned today. >> black jump suit. laura brown. >> thank you very much. i learned i can use a fetish object on morning television. >> i learned i can call thomas your fetish object. >> i accept it. >> you accepted that. >> i lovingly accept that. >> what did you learn today? >> off the top of the show learned a lot about what's taking place in paris and still so much more to learn as that manhunt continues. so i just encourage everybody to
stick with us today. as we reveal more. >> no doubt about it. all the experts talking about how there has to be a balance in france between tough policing and tough investigations and also figuring out a way to make sure 5 million to 6 million muslims that live in that country don't feel -- >> disenfranchised. >> all right if it's way too early, what time? >> it's time for "morning joe" but stick around because "the rundown" is starting right now. double cash card. it earns you cash back now and cash back later. with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay with two ways to earn on puchases, it makes a lot of other cards seem one-sided. we're in seattle to see which 100 calorie black cherry greek yogurt tastes best. definitely that one. that one's delicious. it's yoplait! what? i love yoplait! the other one is chobani. really. i like this one better. yoplait wins again! take the taste-off for yourself.
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good morning. first on "the rundown," breaking news in france. as we speak, nbc has confirmed police are searching a town about an hour outside of paris after a possible sighting of the two men behind wednesday's massacre. witnesses say the search involves helicopters and dozens of officers. they're focusing on the town after reportses two masked attackers armed with machine guns robbed a gas station just about ten minutes away. we'll be watching that as it develops. the entire country is now on the lookout for the two