tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC January 8, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
>> i want to thank you for being with us for this epic and slightly stressful show tonight. the continued manhunt for the paris massacre suspect. >> one of the suspects of the paris massacre left an id card at the site of the paris massacre. >> this story hits home for people day in and day out who mocks religious, social and political figures.
>> a massive search under way. >> the two suspects are still at large. >> there have been reports of sightings throughout the night. >> searching a town outside of paris. >> helicopters in the air, armored, military assault-type vehicles. >> they are considered armed and dangerous. >> france is completely obsessed with this manhunt. >> stunning images coming outs of paris. >> night maz fallen in the last hour or so. >> people showing their support and grief. >> anyone in the world tonight now has to think twice before making a joke. >> it should be an act of courage. they were killed for their cartoons. >> it could not be more upset and saddened. >> it's not the way it's supposed to be. >> they have touched the core, the heart of the french. >> it's a right some people are inexplicably forced to die for. >> the bells of notre dame rang.
>> tonight in france, police continue to search for two brothers suspected of carrying out yesterday's attack on the french satirical magazine "charlie hebdo." 11 people were injured and 12 people were killed. it was a national day of mourning in france today. at noon the country stopped for a moment of silence and at 8:00 p.m. paris time, the eiffel tower went dark. in our nation's capital, president obama went to the french embassy to sign a condolence book. police are on the hunt for sads and cherif kouachi. the older brother, said kouachi
travelled to yemen in 2011 to be trained by an al qaeda affiliate for several months before returning to france. said's national identification card was also found in one of the getaway cars according to french officials. according to the new york times, the younger of the two brothers cherif was arrested in 2005, halting his flan plans of traveling to syria and iraq. then in 2008 cherif was convicted on terrorism charges. both brothers have been in the u.s. terrorism database and the u.s. no-fly list quote, for years. police are searching a suburb about 90 minutes outside of paris for the brothers after reports of two men resembling the suspects were said to have robbed a gas station at gun point. on sunday attorney general eric holder will travel to paris for international talks on countering terrorism. joining me now from paris is nbc news chief foreign correspondent
richard engel. that's the latest there now? >> well the manhunt is continuing, and today we are learning a lot more about these two brothers. there is a dragnet under way with the media every hour putting their pictures on television. the police an the military asking for public reports. this is the scenario that a lot of french people and a lot of counterterrorism officials around the world fear most. this is not -- it doesn't appear to be a foreign terrorist attack or a lone wolf radicalized individual who decided to take matters into his own hands. this was a home grown cell that had connections, it seems, to international terrorist groups. and throughout the day, we've
been trying to piece together exactly what led to the radicalization of these two brothers, the two brothers that were apparently quite close of algerian descent, said and cherif. said the older brother at 34. cherif, 32. actually, cherif had been much better known to counterterrorism officials. as you mentioned, he was arrested in 2005 served a year and a half in prison on counterterrorism charges. was believed to become even further radicalized while in prison. now we're learning that it was, in fact, the older broth e, said, who in 2011 traveled to yemen and received months of terrorism trouning by al qaeda in yemen. >> was that the training we saw on display in those videos yesterday in the handling of weapons as they were moving through the street?
>> it's very hard to know. in yemen, there's a lot of lawless places where they could have received training in ire farms, they could have received training in small movement tactic, because that's the kind of thing we're seeing that video, how you handle a weapon how you move in a build, how you clear a room how you cradle the weapon. they could have received that kind of training in yemen. they could have received it also in syria. there are reports that one or both of the brothers also recently traveled to syria. what's interesting about the yemen connection however, is, was the yemen al qaeda affiliate the one that according to u.s. counterterrorism officials gave the older brother months of training. was that al qaeda i fill yat that had specifically marked for death, marked for execution.
the editor of "charlie hebdo" calling him someone who should be killed because of the magazine's perceived insult against islam. >> richard engel, thank you very much for joining us from paris tonight. joining me now a french correspondent and an nbc law enforcement analyst. laura, it was a day of mourning in your country today. i know you're in washington, but you're very much in contact with people in france. what was your sense of what that was like in france today? >> it was a shock. french people are not afraid. they just want to know how the end is going to ha. and the french people that i spoke with it could be a tragic end. people are now expect inging, people think the two brothers are not going to surrender themselves. they're going to fight not only media, but the whole country is expecting this fight, where in
the past they were young french muslim was in his house and was waiting for the police and people to come. he fought the police people. he had a lot of weapons and there were a lot of journalists i spoke with a lot of fishes i spoke with are convinced that the manhunt is going to end in a bloody battle. >> i think there's a better than chance that they're going to use guns. we know they used them against innocent people and slaughtered them. we know they used them against the police. we know from richard's reporting that they've had these contacts with yemen, maybe had the training. so all of the cards are in order for them to be involved in this conflict with the police because after you kill a dozen people and slaughter journal iss, policemen, janitors and maintenance workers, there's not
much left for you. you're not going to be in that society anymore. your only chance is a martyr's death or maybe escape to syria or north africa. so i think she's absolutely spot on. i think it's a better than even chance once these guys are confronted. but they will lose that gun battle when it happens. >> i just would like to add something. they have been trained to die in front of the cameras. that's what they're looking. and it's very dangerous, and many france especially among reporters and among police people,ern is aware of what's going to happen. are they going to die in front of the cameras with the whole world watching? that's what they want. they want maximum publicity. they want the actions to be seen. and in my personal opinion, and also from the people i spoke with they're not going to
surrender again. they're going to want a bloody battle in front of the cameras. and it's going to be very difficult to watch. >> in the manner of the id left in the car. it's amazing to me. it's such an amateur moment. most first-time car thieves in america would not do that. is there anything that tells you the range of possible behavior here? meaning, on the mistake side for them what other kinds of things they could trip into? >> they're not practiced fugitives. you hit on it. they have grandiose ideas. they think they are elude escape for years, commit terrorist acts, you know be the martyrs for the terrorist network, but they're not criminals. they're not good criminals. they left their id there, they
went to the wrong address. one guy lost his shoe. and now i can tell you they're not good fugitives. i spent four decades hunting down fugitives and wanted people. some people who have a real criminal background that you mentioned, they can get away and stay away. but these guys won't be able to do that. but what they do have at their finger trips are triggers so they can get in a citizen's car and shoot them and take their car and drive that until they run out of gas. but they're limited by physics, by gravity, by what limits us all. and i agree with the assessment of the journalist from washington that these guys want that fear they want that fear. they may not get that. let's hope no other citizen has to be killed at the hands of these two guys. >> you seem confident that the police are going to end this. is that the feeling of the people you talk to in france?
these suspects are not going to escape? the french police are going to get them? >> absolutely. they're familiar with the fight against terrorism. special forces underground are working hard at this moment. their location according to what we know they're really trying to get close to those guys. they're extremely worried about what's going to happen when they're going to be really close to their house. but again, those police officials are extremely well equipped extremely well trained to fight terrorists. and everybody now is expecting to see what's going to happen in the following hours. >> laura haim and jim cavanaugh, thank you both for joining us tonight. coming up california and washington politics rocked today by senator barbara boxer's announcement she will not run for re-election. and in the rewrite tonight, another lesson in the difference between movies and history
books. this time using the film "selma" which now has a golden globe nomination for best picture. and accusations of sex abuse involving abuse of underaged girls. british royalty involved in these accusations, and attorney general alan dershowitz. he will join me with his response to these accusations. why do i cook? because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. for every way you make chicken noodle soup, make it delicious with swanson®. ♪ with the incredible fuel efficiency of 38 miles-per-gallon highway you can feel like royalty in the nissan altima. now, get great offers on the 38 mpg highway nissan altima.
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late this afternoon, the united states olympic committee selected boston as the united states candidate city that will bid to host the summer olympics in 2024. boston beat los angeles, san francisco, and washington. the international olympic committee will make its decision in 2017. up next, barbara boxer's announcement today that rocked american politics from coast to coast.
>> i will not be running again. i want to come home to california. >> no serious democrat ever considered challenging them in their re-election campaigns. barbara boxer has opened the way now by announcing that she will not run for re-election. the news surprised her former house colleague democratic leader nancy pelosi.
>> your reaction to senator boxer's retirement? >> what? >> she's going to retire. >> she called me before i came down here and i came to you. she call med. she said she wanted to talk to me personally. i thought she maybe wanted to have dinner tonight. oh, my. she's really a great leader for our country. small in size but a giant in terms of her contribution to the country. i didn't know. as i said all i had was a call from her but i didn't want to keep you waiting. it's a real loss, i think. >> democratic front-runners here, attorney general camel
harris general governor gavin newsome? what about republicans running for that seat? >> a few other democrats are possibilities. tom stier, the billionaire who made global warming his cause. he could be a self-financed candidate. there are several statewide officials in california who might run other than gavin newsome. alex padilla, john chung. there are always other members of congress who hanker to move up to a place with longer terms and so forth. there are a few of those guys noodling around. how about republicans? republicans probably need not apply truly. this is a pretty blue state. and in 2016 it's going to be a presidential election year and the turnout is going to be much higher than it was in 2014. so it will be very very difficult for any republican to win the seat. it would have to be a fluke of some kind. but there are potential candidates. the probably the strongest would
be condoleezza rice. but carly fiorina could run for the senate. kevin faulkner the new mayor of san diego is a possibility. he's definitely looking to move up in the political ranks at some point. so there are other candidates kicking around. the question is whether any republicans would have money to mount a decent race or not. and barring that it's going to be one of those democrats who winds up with the seat. >> and jerry brown is going to leave the governorship wide open. do harris and newsome think about that while they're thinking about the senate? >> gef nitly. they also think about dianne feinstein feinstein's seat. there's a pretty good chance she won't run for another term in 2018. at least one other position will be opening up with jerry brown's seat. and maybe dianene feinstein's as well. i don't think there's going to be any chance that harris and
newsome will run against each other. they share the same base and even the same political consultant. that's probably not in the cards. they'll sit down, figure out who, if either one of them is going to run in the senate and the other will wait around and run for senate in 2018 or the governorship. my guess is it's more likely of the two that harris will run for the harsenate in 2016. >> if you want to go all the way up to the top of the white house, it's better to run from a governor's office than a senate office. >> it's kind of odd. it didn't used to be that way. it's been that way in recent years. yeah, that's a possibility. a lot of it is just kind of pred prediliction. do you want to sit in the senate and make speeches and do legislation or run the united states state in the united states? it's that. but i think -- i have a hunch that gavin newsome leans more thards running for governor than the senate. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. thank you.
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right some people are inexplicably forced to die for. >> the attack on cartoons. the op edge page bravely reprints the 2011 charlie hebdo cover cartoon that provoked the bombing of the charlie hebdo offices. it depicts mohammed saying 100 lashing if you're not dying of laughter. i have that print edition right here on the desk. i cannot hold it up. i can't show it to you. because like most news organizations in america, including "the new york times" and the associated press, this network has decided not to show any of the charlie hebdo cartoons that led to yesterday's murders of the cartoonist. in "the washington post" piece accompanying the cartoon entitled the defenders of freedom, charles lane writes if freedom means anything, it means
freedom of expression. in the realm of art the executive editor of the new york times explained his reasoning for not publishing the cartoons. we have a standard that is long held and that serves us well that there is a line between gratuitous insult and satire and most of these are gratuitous. 1 million copies of "chaer lee hebdo" will be published next wednesday with the help of other french media circulations. the usual is between 30,000 and 60,000. joining me now is washington post columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and executive director and co-founder on islamic relations. first of all, what was it like at the post today when that cartoon went up? i want to just add, one of the
reasons "the new york times" gave in consideration of running these cartoons was the danger was the actual danger to their reporter, especially who are stationed abroad. was that one of the considerations of "the washington post"? not that the station will be everyone recognizes it and understands it, but the editorial panls run separately from the news pages. this is a decision by the editorial board which runs the editorial page and the op-ed page. i eck speak tooth deliberations, in my view how can you write about this without giving readers some idea of what's at the heart of the heart of this
event. and if you don't give them any glimpse of the offensive question how are readers to judge or really understand what happened? so i think on that basis alone, there's a good reason for having run this cartoon. >> let's listen to what bill mahrer said last night about the world's great religions. >> we have to stop saying we cannot insult the great religion. first of all, there are no great religions. they're all stupid and dangerous. [ applause ] and we should insult them and we should be able to insult whatever we want. that's what free speech is like. >> should we be able to insult whatever we want? >> well, people insult themselves insult the intelligence of other people who are watching them. he has the right, but just to
make fun of other people and just to earn money is his choice. he has a lack of knowledge and understanding. he offends himself more than me. but he has the right to do it. i'm not going to commit violence against him. we live in a free world in a free society. everything expresses himself and what comes out of me shows my character. and what comes out of bill maher and others shows his character. truth stands out from you know, so therefore he's entitled to his bigotry, i'm entitled to my decency. and we define each other based on what we do and what comes out of ourselves and out of our mouths.
>> would you like to make what is called his bigotry illegal? >> no. we live in a free society. and there's no such thing as called illegal. he accuses me of doing something i have not done under the u.s. law. but beyond that. he can say he doesn't like me. i can say i don't like him, but he or i cannot accuse me of doing something you have not done. >> of what do you think the legal basis of not showing the cartoons? >> of course we don't want to give gratuitous offense to anybody. and if you would have asked me a
month ago in a vacuum, should we run the cartoons from "charlie hebdo" i would have said absolutely not. because again, many are juvenile, they're kind of dumb. patently offensive. as of yesterday, we have this horrific event and these cartoons at the heart of it. it is not necessary to run them all in my view. it's not necessary to make some sort of huge in your face statement by in who's face by making a show of it. to tell this story and to tell it right, i don't see how you do it in a complete vacuum. i think that would be wrong.
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>> in tonight's "rewrite" the difference between movies and history books. here is the oscar worthy performance of the reverend dr. martin luther king jr. in the oscar worthy movie "selma." >> as long as i'm unable to exercise my constitutional right to vote, i do not have command of my own life. i cannot determine my own destiny destiny. it's determined for me from people who would rather see me suffer than succeed. those that have gone before us say no more. >> no more! >> no more. >> no more! >> that means protests. that means march. that means disturb the peace. that means jail. that means risk. and that is hard. we will not wait any longer. give us the vote!
>> that's right, no more. >> we're not asking. we're demanding. >> give us the vote. >> give us the vote! >> "selma" has been nominated for godden globes for best picture, best actor, best director and best original song. the winners will be announced sunday night. at the beginning of almost every recent awards season we have had to teach america the difference between movies and history books. no historical movie has ever been perfectly accurate and never will be. it is in the nature of movie writing. drama will always be tweaked. sequence sometimes rearranged. hugely important moments left out. interest of making the movie work. that's what writers and directors and actors say to each other all the time when they're analyzing a scene. does this sfwhork when they're analyzing a screenplay, a television episode, does it work? does it all come together and have the intended effect? does anything interrupt or slow down or confuse the emotional
momentum. perfectly worthy scenes are dropped from scripts for reasons of pace or expense. discussions about what have works. history books don't have those kinds of challenges. they include every findable fact or theory or even rumor that can be attributed to an identifiable source. the university presses that publish our history book never says sorry, your manuscript is 1,000 words too long. we we have to cut something. they don't say we can't afford to depict that battle of gettysburg. movies are movies. history books are history books. movies are works of art. some great art, some good art, some terrible art. "selma" for me is great art.
i have quibbles with the screenplay, which is not nominated for a golden globe, but then i almost always have quibbles, or more often very harsh criticisms of screenplays. the rarest thing in hollywood is for a writer like me to walk out of a movie theatre and say i wouldn't change a word of that script. it happens to me about once every other year or so. but i have never known many screenwriters to actually agree very much on exactly which scripts they wouldn't change. if my experience, people in the business writers, actors directors dislike more movies and more tv shows more intensely than the general public ever will, but we want to love them. we want to have that experience you can only have in a dark theatre locked in the grip of a movie. i had that watching "selma" which ended with the biggest and longest standing ovation i have ever experienced in a theatre. it ended with most of the 1,000 new yorkers in the ziegfeld theatre crying.
you owe yourself the experience of watching "selma" and when it's over when you finish crying, you might want to debate the point of how president johnson was portrayed in the movie. if you do that you will be joining a debate that has been happily going on in english since shakespeare. how precisely accurate was this historical drama. i will not be joining that debate. because the lbj scenes are not an important part of the experience of that movie. it is not what most people are going to leave the theatre thinking about. you leave the theatre thinking about, how recently it was that registering to vote was the most difficult thing you could try to do if you were black and living in selma. >> it's all right this time. >> it's right when i say it's right. cite the constitution's preamble. do you know what a preamble?
>> there are millions of younger americans who will see this movie who do not know that going to church in the south could get you killed if you were black. during my lifetime i remember the bombing of the 16th street baptist church in birmingham alabama, when four black girls were killed wearing their best sunday dresses. attive e may cool lins age 14 cynthia wesley 14. carol robertson, 14. denise mcnair, age 11. i've read about that bombing. i've even stood at the very spot where the bomb was planted. i visited the birmingham civil rights institute that is now across the street from the 16th street baptist church. and there i saw the shoes denise mcnair was wearing the day that she was killed in an exhibit about the bombing. and i knew what journalism and history books tell us about the bombing of the 16th street
baptist church, but none of that prepared me for the shock of the bombing in the movie. i actually rocked forward in my seat as if i was thrown against a dash board of the car. i felt something i had never felt before about that bombing, something history books could never make me feel. i felt the raw, physical shock of that explosion. it is the most shocking and horrifying thing i have seen on film, and it should be. because it is so tragically true. "selma" is full of profoundly important truths like that truths that only movies can tell. "selma" is a very powerful emotional experience, which is what a great movie is supposed to be. the emotional power doesn't come from anything that happened in the safety of the oval office. it comes from the much more important and painful truth of how dangerous it was to go to
church if you were a black girl in birmingham. the important and powerful truth of how much hatred and murderous violence flowed openly in america because of skin color. the important and painful truth that simply trying to vote meant taking your life in your hands for african-americans in selma. the truth that america couldn't change without first watching innocent people noble people including children bombed and lynched and assassinated and america didn't change because it was the right thing to do. that's never a good enough reason. america changed because it was shamed into changing. that is the truth of "selma."
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>> jeffrey epstein went to prison for over a year after he pleaded guilty to one count of solicitation of minors for prostitution. that plea deal was negotiated between the federal government and epstein's lawyer, including alan derk wits. now alan dershowitz is being accused of having sex with an underaged girl. a woman known as jane doe number 3 said epstein forced her to have sex with alan dershowitz on multiple occasions. a court motion filed last month by attorneys paul cassell and bradley edwards says quote, in addition to being a participant in the abuse of jane doe number
3 he has denied the allegations and has called on attorney jane doe number 3 to be disbarred. on tuesday, bradley edwards filed a defamation lawsuit against alan dershowitz. joining me now is alan dershowitz. professor dershowitz. when this story first broke you would have filed a complaint against these lawyers. they've now filed against you. but first, let's get right to where i know you want to go which is deal with these specific accusations as we know them. what is your response? >> i was never on the island
where she was. and i was never on a plane with her that can be proven by documentation. i am thrilled their' suing me for defamation. i'm interested in putting them under oath. because right now, they have accused me of these horrendous things without a single affidavit, without a single piece of evidence. they just threw it into a pleading in a case where i'm not even a party. it's like a drive-by legal shooting. my only response could be to get them under oath. i have challenged her to formally accuse me of rape and i will wave statutes of limitations and subject myself to prosecution. but if she accuses me of rape formally she goes to jail for making a false charge. i have challenged the lawyers to go under oath and repeat these charges, or repeat them to you so i can sue them for defamation. but they're hiding behind litigation privilege. they put this in this legal document. imagine if any of you out there were accused in a legal document of doing something as horrible as this and you're told there's
no legal recourse at all. but believe me there will be a legal recourse. and the terrible thing is the effect it's going to have on rape victims. because rape victims generally tell the truth. this woman made up this whole story. and when i prove it conclusively beyond any doubt by physical and documentary evidence it will hurt other rape victims and that's a real problem. these lawyers pretend to be victims rights lawyers. they are unprofessional, unethical, they didn't do adequate checking. they filed these charges and they will pay a heavy price for having done so. >> in one of the points you made about this. >> your information and research seems to indicate the secret service records indicate president clinton has never been on that island. >> that's true. not only that but they've
accused at least two former prime ministers as well. and you never shouldn't ever falsely accuse a president or a prime minister because they have secret service with them all the time. and the documentary evidence is clear and conclusive. this is a serial liar who has lied about so many people. she claimed to have met the queen. buckingham palace denied that. why any responsible lawyer would believe her and file this kind of charge it's like putting graffiti on a bathroom door and then running away. they picked on the wrong innocent person. i have the resources and the will. i'm 76 years old, i'm retired. i will drain my bank account, i will do everything in my power not only to prove that i didn't do it -- and i think everybody who has seen this understands that that's the case, and i will prove it -- to any skeptics by documentary evidence but they willfully and deliberately made this up in order to gain a litigation advantage, line their pockets with money and they have to pay a heavy consequence for this. and they will. >> professor dershowitz i want to ask you about something you
said yesterday about the attack in france. in an interview with news max. there's a headline in the article that says alan dershowitz, france weeped what they sewed in the paris attack. >> that's not what i said. >> i hope you will tell me you didn't say this. they have you quoted as saying about france they reward every terrorist. >> that is true. >> that is absolutely not true. >> they have the worst record of any country in europe on terrorism. >> you want to stand by, they reward every terrorist. tell me how -- >> let me give you the context in which i said it. >> it's a crazy thing to say. >> i'm sorry, it's right. they have the worst -- >> they do not reward every terrorist do you want to say they've rewarded a few terrorists? are you really going to sit here and say they rewarded every terrorist? >> virtually every terrorist who has been convicted and sent to prison in paris has either gotten out -- the point i was making was a general one and
that is that they voted for palestinian statehood for a country that was built on terrorism. they have done everything to avoid joining the fight on terrorism. i feel terrible for these people. i feel terrible for -- >> virtually every country in the world has voted for that state hood, you know that. >> the united states hasn't. >> virtually every kwoun tri in the world. >> good countries don't vote for it. >> i've written a book called "why terrorism book" and i prove in that book that terrorism is rewarded and particularly all through europe. terrorism is rewarded. europe is part of the problem. france is part of the problem. i feel terribly sorry for the victims, but france is part of the problem. maybe this will give them a wake-up call and have them join the war against terrorism rather than becoming part of the problem of facilitating and rewarding terrorism. i will stand by that statement. >> i will advise you, just for the credibility of your own judgment on anything else you
ever say publicly don't ever say that france rewards every terrorist. >> sir i don't need your advice on this issue. and please don't generalize. >> >> tonight on "all in." the city of lights goes dark as the manhunt continues in paris. tonight, the latest on the suspects who continue to elude capture. our first look inside the offices where masked gunmen opened fire. a look at the small, diverse group of people and the look by some media outlets to not publish charlie cartoons. we'll have the latest on the naacp bombing. and just when you thought the tamir rice case couldn't get any worse. wa